A Simple Request from Thieves: An upgrade to Thief's Knife.

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Originally Posted by Zirael

As for TH working from inventory, in that case you'd have all other jobs demanding for other items to work from inventory too. And the answer would be: PS2 limitations/game balance.
As a side note, anyone remembers those Diablo II talismans you kept in your inventory that were giving small (or sometimes huge) bonuses to you? One can only dream... !

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Yep yep lol. But if we could have effects straight from the inv it would be a small fix to in game macros as well. And yeah, diablo 2 hit me just after i posted it lol.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Excuse me if i misinterpret this.
You're saying unless they make a TH+1 knife that replaces Thief's Knife that is on par with a top DD dagger, it's not a solution? Yeah, that's just not going to happen.

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yes. exactly that. They can just transfer the current Thief Knife into a Key Item, and just have it overwrite the other one (you could wield that piece of crap if you want but it offers no additional effect once you have the Key Item).

If they just add it too a new dagger, all that will do is: give you two crappy daggers to swap, with one being slightly less crappy than the other.

You really wouldn't be pissed if they said "Hey, good job on those 5 different Trials of the Magian daggers that you built. now go ahead an toss em cuz they don't even have a place in your off hand now."?

Even if they add a dagger that "Replaces" Thief Knife, you still have to swap it out if you want to perform at your best. Wouldn't it be better if they made it so you didn't have to swap out daggers at all?

"If you need $10, you ask for $20. You don't ask for $5."

What they should do is just change things so that you don't lose TP at all when you swap out a weapon in the off hand. If you think about it, this isn't that unreasonable because WS damage depends on the dmg rating of the main hand weapon only. This would actually open up the game to many more weapon combinations that could be very interesting.

This is quite similar to not losing TP when you swap out ammo. For example, traditional crossbow rangers use holy bolts for TP build and then swap in higher damage bolts for the WS.

Doing this would make the crap damage and delay of the Thief's knife much more palatable.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

What they should do is just change things so that you don't lose TP at all when you swap out a weapon in the off hand. If you think about it, this isn't that unreasonable because WS damage depends on the dmg rating of the main hand weapon only. This would actually open up the game to many more weapon combinations that could be very interesting.

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Yeah, nothing like swapping out a multi-attacking weapon for WS damage boosting weapon like a str/att, DA+10, TP bonus+100 etc one.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

What they should do is just change things so that you don't lose TP at all when you swap out a weapon in the off hand. If you think about it, this isn't that unreasonable because WS damage depends on the dmg rating of the main hand weapon only. This would actually open up the game to many more weapon combinations that could be very interesting.

This is quite similar to not losing TP when you swap out ammo. For example, traditional crossbow rangers use holy bolts for TP build and then swap in higher damage bolts for the WS.

Doing this would make the crap damage and delay of the Thief's knife much more palatable.

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I actually quite like this idea. It would indeed open new options... stuff I've been wanting to do for quite some time. And while I can understand why it erases TP, it wouldn't also be horribly illogical if it didn't. I mean, I went by the argument that every time you change equipment that's in your hands (e.g. weapons), you lose TP. However, you still have to use your hands, and preferably put weapons down, to change other gear on you, so that wouldn't be too bad.

I always looked at losing TP as a means to not abuse TP-gain weapons, to WS in real weapons again. But you pretty much do that anyway with Dual Wielding weapons, because the offhanded weapon isn't very relevant to WS damage. So I think this is actually a nice option.

Also, if we extend it to the sub slot instead of just Dual Wield... /macros in Aegis for MDT set.

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Originally Posted by Lokithor

What they should do is just change things so that you don't lose TP at all when you swap out a weapon in the off hand. If you think about it, this isn't that unreasonable because WS damage depends on the dmg rating of the main hand weapon only. This would actually open up the game to many more weapon combinations that could be very interesting.

This is quite similar to not losing TP when you swap out ammo. For example, traditional crossbow rangers use holy bolts for TP build and then swap in higher damage bolts for the WS.

Doing this would make the crap damage and delay of the Thief's knife much more palatable.

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This would not solve situations where you quickly kill mobs and have little time to swap out.

Further, this would still break things. Being able to swap out between a Muse and Genbu's, or swapping from a Shield to a weapon to take advantage of the extra hit from DW, or swapping out a strap that gives double attack to one that gives STR.

If you exclude these arbitrarily (even more programing then easily upgrading a knife) from your change (more programing then easily upgrading a knife) that causes balance issues that would have to be examined between the two (yet more dev time).

Then of course, you could swap from offhanding a multihitter to a weapon that gives +20 Attack or +15 Accuracy, or Magic Attack Bonus, boosting the strength of a weapon skill just like swapping out a main hand weapon would.

The basic game mechanics are balanced in the way they are for a reason, and the suggestion of upgrading the dagger was simple, and suggesting something major to fix the issue when it could be fixed by a simple method that is already in place in the game just to avoid agreeing with a simple fix on principal is quite silly. This thread was meant to be a simple fix, not one that involves rewriting major parts of the game code to fix a simple problem.

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Originally Posted by noodles355

Yeah, nothing like swapping out a multi-attacking weapon for WS damage boosting weapon like a str/att, DA+10, TP bonus+100 etc one.

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WS Damage and TP bonus weapons supposedly don't work in your offhand.

The TP Bonus ones do Work offhand

From Magian trials, not the AH ones.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

WS Damage and TP bonus weapons supposedly don't work in your offhand.

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WS Damage +10% Fusetto, doesn't but the TP Bonus + 100 Fusetto does work in offhand.

lol all mages would want to think they should be at the front line if they could rock DD crap and swap stave's in for casting :P I'm gonna link this post to the RED melee forum and watch them all jizz themselves.

While the idea might be a little out there, Allowing people to switch their sub hand weapon without losing TP May solve a good chunk of the problem.

At this point, I'm just not using my Thief's Knife anymore though... With the miniscule difference between TH5 and 6, its not worth the hit to my DPS. Considering i can upgrade it.

So yah, Imperfect solution, But i've just storage'd the damn thing for now until somethings done >_>