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Let's see here. I dare say it's impossible to accuse me of ninja-lotting when I don't do things with people I don't know, Bob.
Protip: No one who you'd actually want grouping with you is going to take some retard's unsubstantiated shouts or /tells seriously. I mean that. So what if a few less random full-aurore pickup groups want to deal with you because some tard made up some story about you kicking his puppy and stealing his Rani? Does that really affect you at all?
I've seen it happen to others.
You feel safe and so dismiss anyones concerns over this change.
You know whats got me riled up? The idiocy of acting like anyone concerned must have been a bad person/poster/player/stupid. Imagined positive effects are a close 2nd.
This thread should have died pages ago.
Just wanted to add: shout groups are the root of all evil. You can't join shouts without encountering stupid and unfortunately some of us do have to join/use shout groups for some things. Example was crappy but I meant to point out you can't all hassles it by blist. And why is my name Bob now o.O?
Accountability is fine, but this doesn't achieve that. Moreover, it's not our job beyond reporting overt offenses (porn/hacks/etc) or the more questionable ones the mods can later judge. If you want the inmates running the asylum approach, just look to Zam. Of course, for the BG regulars, that's just as bad as here.
Do I feel safe? Definitely.
Should anyone feel vulnerable? I really don't think so, bad player or not. Who is going to take some random guy's word at face value these days? Short answer: No one that you'd want to associate with anyways.
If someone you're grouping with is willing to believe what some random Jeuno shouter says about you, what else do you think they're going to believe later down the road? It's not a matter of avoiding the Jeuno shouter, because there will always, always, always be someone else lining up to take a shot at you no matter what is or isn't on these forums.
What matters is who you're grouping with in the first place. Find people who don't take rumors at face value. Who know you as you, and know that you are innocent until proven guilty. Do you want a girlfriend who will take any stranger's word that you're cheating on her? Hell no. You want a woman who trusts you until her private investigator sends her the pictures.
Sorry GG I was starting to direct my irritation where it doesn't belong. Some of my previous points still stand however. As well as just the general "sh** happens" I was aiming for and missed.
Here's something interesting. It took me 5-10 minutes to find a player on Carbuncle Server that potentially has 1.25 million worth of auctionable gear for his/her 90 DNC, and was recently trying to move over 1 mill through bazaar. All I needed was two sites--one was SE's. A simple search on name, picked the one from Carbuncle, and it gave me the LS names as well as bazaar info. Went to SE's site, and pulled up the LS, viewed the profile, and saw additional gear that player has for that job. All I needed was name and server.
So, in other words, while name and server alone isn't enough to technically get you hacked--it can very easily help someone narrow down whether you are a valid target if they happen to farm the rest of your login info. I really don't see how forcing us to provide name, server, and job levels is meant to enhance the forums.
As for the token...it is just a heightened method of security, but it is not entirely full-proof. No matter how it is crafted to work, there is a numeric pattern to it. Granted, it may be a complex algorhythm, but it is mathematical in nature and therefore does have a pattern to it. Granted, it can be an insanely difficult thing to crack, but given enough samples on one cipher, someone may eventually be able to crack the pattern. Fortunately, there simply isn't enough of a market to swipe someone's gear for that kind of thing now, so it is likely no one is even bothering with it. If anyone is still farming login info to steal stuff like in the past, they are likely going after people without the tokens. For those people, once they get the sign-on credentials they can very easily track down some details on the characters on that account to determine if it's worth it to monitor when they log out of the game and then get on that account to swipe stuff.
Back to the issue of forcing us to publish character information, it didn't take me but a few minutes to find out a lot of info on this one person--job levels, crafting levels, two samplings of gear equipped for DNC, and how far they've progressed through most all mission tracks except abyssea. But, seeing they have Twilight gear equipped, they've completed Abyssea. I could have gathered that info from a number of places, including just seeing them in game. So this change really serves no purpose other than to identify people who are using a different handle than their FFXI character name. Once that is determined, what purpose does that serve? Gives you the ability to pimp-slap someone because they don't show they have a job leveled to 90 when they post something about that job? Give someone the info they need to track them down in game and harrass them if they don't agree with them? While these may be extreme...it IS a possibility, and there HAVE been people known to do this kind of thing in the past. Try to spin it any way you want, it IS a real possibillity.
You're really, really reaching. You make the assumption that the RMT/"Hacker" already has someone's login information, and then you say that knowing via FFXIAH that someone has a few million worth of gear is going to make them more likely to use that information?
It's not like the RMT is being backtraced and caught by the FBI when they hack into people's FFXI accounts. They do not need to look you up on FFXIAH to determine whether or not you are a solid target. They can log in, see if there's anything on your account worth a penny, take as much of it as they can grab before you lock it down, and then try to sell off the account if, for some reason, no one locks it in time.
If someone has your login information, they are not going to pass on using it just because they can't see your FFXIAH information. That is all it comes down to in this particular situation. Does this move enhance security? No. Does it inhibit security? No. This change is fundamentally independent of anyone's character security. Besides, so what if someone knows you have a few level 90 jobs? You are creating an identity link between a name on a forum and a name on a server. If you had your information published on FFXIAH, it would be available anyways. If you don't, it will remain unavailable. I cannot tell you how absolutely ridiculous your security argument sounds right now.
Is the security on the site perfect, using our SEID to login? No. Does this change affect that in any way, shape, or form? Absolutely not. It won't be any more or less secure than it was 5 minutes ago. If you don't like your SEID and password being used to log into these forums, don't log into these forums.
I think you more or less just proved GG's argument of this just "Making public information, more public". This Information is out there already, its public information.Quote:
Here's something interesting. It took me 5-10 minutes to find a player on Carbuncle Server that potentially has 1.25 million worth of auctionable gear for his/her 90 DNC, and was recently trying to move over 1 mill through bazaar. All I needed was two sites--one was SE's. A simple search on name, picked the one from Carbuncle, and it gave me the LS names as well as bazaar info. Went to SE's site, and pulled up the LS, viewed the profile, and saw additional gear that player has for that job. All I needed was name and server.
So, in other words, while name and server alone isn't enough to technically get you hacked--it can very easily help someone narrow down whether you are a valid target if they happen to farm the rest of your login info. I really don't see how forcing us to provide name, server, and job levels is meant to enhance the forums.
Think of it this way, if you were going to be targeted by this god-like hacker who could not only target your personal computer with a keylogger/etc, but could get past the Security token, That he couldn't do it without knowing your Char name, Server, or jobs?
I'm only trying to make it clear you're at absolutely no further risk of your account being hacked because of this. every piece of information set to be displayed is 100% worthless to a hacker.
If you're worried he "now knows my in-game name and that makes me more vulnerable!", Honestly, its just wishful thinking. You think a hacker who again, could personally target your PC and log your password is hindered by not knowing your char name? no, he doesn't need it. he could hack you right now if he existed.
Edit: On the "Token" being a heightened security bit yah, i agree. but its a greatly heightened security. its like going from a wooden door to a 10 door hallway with security measures at each door. Its a giant leap. The only real way to hack someone with a Security token is to do it completely in real time. Which again, could only be performed by a good hacker.
That type of hacker does not care about you or your FFXI account as to them its piddly amount of money and not worth their time. The only time you're at risk of this type of hacking is if you really really p*ss off the wrong person. But its probably the same odds as winning the lottery.
They don't login while you are logged in, as that sends up red flags. They do it while you are logged off. All I'm saying is if they catch 15 sets of of credentials, then can quickly and easily scratch off the low priority targets--meaning having that info easily available can bump you up the list. It is a possibility, and it is a device that can be used. Whether or not is used is just your personal opinion--the point is there is the potential for it to work against you.
That wasn't something presented as a security argument, it was meant to demonstrate how readily available all this information is already, and to contrast how pointless it is to force people to publish it here. You even admit that if it is not published elsewhere, then it remains unavailable--here, SE is giving us NO CHOICE in the matter IF we want to participate in the forums here. At least on the LS site, you were given the OPTION TO HIDE THAT INFORMATION. Here, they are not giving us a choice. THAT is the problem. We have the choice to hide our information everywhere else, but not here.
Also, forcing everyone to one central point now does in fact present a security problem. Now, there will be one unified means to login to multiple things. Everyone is being shuffled through one gateway, using one set of credentials--which means there are fewer places that need to be monitored. You will be logging in more often to that single gateway if you are active in those multiple activities, meaning more samples being offered through one single gateway now. This can potentially put those without security tokens at greater risk of compromise simply because there will now be one single point of failure instead of multiple ones, and that single point will be passing that same information more often.
But, that was a sideline argument that somehow got started up about whether it effects security or not. The main points of the debate is that up until this move, we always had a CHOICE in what information was displayed. Various people will have various reasons for displaying or hiding it--the simple fact remains that SE themselves provides us a choice to hide our info on one of their sites, and then they are forcing us to display it here, with no reasonable justification for demanding that it be published.
It really serves no purpose to unite the community or encourage participation, and may potentially create some pockets of division or discourage participation--as evidenced by some saying they will not be logging into the forums after this is implemented.
Quit clouding the issue with the hacking nonsense and an example of someone who obviously didn't have their information hidden.Mine isn't. And btw I get the same "you must have something to hide" drivel about not showing everyone my data on ffxiah and the ls community site.Quote:
This Information is out there already, its public information.