[dev1289] Job Adjustments

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Originally Posted by detlef

As I recall there were issues where "mule" accounts tended to be a trollier due to the additional anonymity. Mods fixed it by just banning everybody.

Aside from that, if Alhanelem of all people can say that he's never been harassed in-game because of his forum persona, I think that's some pretty good evidence against the anonymity argument.

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Making this a discussion about personal information rather than the actual topic is the very definition of trolling...

You guys realize this is the way to get a thread locked, right?

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Originally Posted by Dale

Skirmish gear is pretty accessible - even to the average player. I stand by that.

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No one said it was hard to get skirmish base gear - but yeah it is harder to get good pet augments than melee augments.

At any rate, I've spent waaaaaaaaaaaay less gil on my BLU and it's way better than my BST so... I don't know what your point is? Other than that you don't know what good BST gear looks like or how much it costs?

And I am not alone I know other people who have spent similar amounts to not get ANY TP augment on their axes... Who knows how much it would cost to get one? I don't know because I don't have any more stones to spend.

And being able to farm them is irrelevant - they cost the same amount of gil because you're foregoing the income you could have derived from them. Nevermind that unlike for melees you can't just use one of 3 stones to get the aug you want on a bunch of your gear - it's orb only and I don't see them drop almost ever.

Also soloing skirmish on BST isn't advisable since the mobs will just eat your pet making you an utterly gimp sorta war with no JAs... again destroying your point... if you had one.

Olor currently right now Dusk Orb are cheap and people with account have many mule they can get from Login points.

Dale doesn't know anything when skirmish was new and on the rise. Each Dusk Orb and Duskslit was selling for over 1 million up to 1.5M. When they didn't add +2 item to moogle login points these item are expensive and now it's free if you have many mule.

Many hardcore BST aim for perfection which they focus on Pet Attack +25, Pet Accuracy +25, Pet Haste+5, Pet magic accuracy, Pet Magic Attack and Pet Damage Taken -4 "100+ million worth of gils spent or more.

There is a link of someone who actually play BST to the fullest and have many full set of many augment armors for PET. For most people that hate BST might wanna check that link so you understand other people point of view.

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/45...er-compendium/

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Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Olor currently right now Dusk Orb are cheap and people with account have many mule they can get from Login points.

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I used my mules' stones on my axe ; ;

Anyway I don't really agree that nearly 3 million for a stack of dusk orbs (on my server) are "cheap"

Cheaper than they were at the beginning? Sure. Cheap Cheap? No. Not cheap.

If I could pay 3 million and get even an augment sort of in the ballpark of what I want that would be cool but... I am not spending any more on BST now that I can't even solo outdated stuff on it as easy as I can do it on BLU

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Originally Posted by Olor

No one said it was hard to get skirmish base gear - but yeah it is harder to get good pet augments than melee augments.

At any rate, I've spent waaaaaaaaaaaay less gil on my BLU and it's way better than my BST so...

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Doubtful. I've been helping a recently returning pre Job Point era Blue Mage get caught up and the JP BSTs we run with are still far superior. Don't make it sound like it's so black & white, absolutely nothing was touched on BST that severely weakened it, as in there's no reports or data posted by anyone, not even SE that shows they nerfed all of the pets, suddenly nerfed every BST WS and nerfed every BST ability.

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Originally Posted by Dale

That is why people who like to harass others on forums typically create level 1 troll characters to do it with. So they can't be held to account by other players.

So I agree with you about this.

We should all have to post on our main characters. It would definitely prompt a more civil discussion... or at the very least one with a lot less b.S.

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It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

For what it's worth I know tons of people find my posts on here annoying and no one has ever given me any guff for it in game. Perhaps someone refuses to party with me or something or doesn't answer my shouts - that, I don't know, can't know etc - but that's people's choice. I would hope that folks wouldn't let opinions on game mechanics get in the way of playing the game with others, but if folks are really bothered by it, that's their right.

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Doubtful. I've been helping a recently returning pre Job Point era Blue Mage get caught up and the JP BSTs we run with are still far superior. Don't make it sound like it's so black & white, absolutely nothing was touched on BST that severely weakened it, as in there's no reports or data posted by anyone, not even SE that shows they nerfed all of the pets, suddenly nerfed every BST WS and nerfed every BST ability.

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Well yeah, a BST with capped JP and super gear is better than a super gimp blu, sure. My BST has a few JP, my BLU has less - but I've spent way less on gear for BLU and overall for most things it's better. And what I used BST for was soloing not party DDing so the distance nerf is a HUGE NERF - since the only advantage it had over BLU was the safety. Now BLU is safer on any older content that can be stunned (and a lot more besides) which is most of it, and it does more damage to boot.

(Native dual wield, self haste 2, bloody MIGHTY GUARD, erasega, party stoneskin, self cures, etc, AND STUNS and better Weaponskills not on gimpy timers... yeah it's better...)

I guess in abyssea if I just wanted to watch my pet slowly take 2 hours to melee down an NM it could be safer? I dunno, just considering it makes my eyes bleed with boredom.

BST is now mostly useless for soloing which is what most people who have played BST forever used it for. Heck, I can't even issue commands from the back end of a mob anymore - have to stand in it's face and eat nasty moves now. The only advantage BST had is gone. It's a crummier DD that does crummier damage than any other straight DD so why would I use it? If I just wanted to be a straight damage dealer I'd level SAM - it's way better than BST in every way.

I'd rather they did a damage nerf than the distance nerf. The distance nerf ruined BST for me. A damage nerf - heck, I was playing BST before they buffed pet WS so I am sure I'd still be playing if they took the damage down a notch. The distance nerf punished long time BSTs, not bandwagoners.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

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That's not what was said at all, being harassed is not "owning up" to anything, I have no problems with debating my opinions on something, but I have no interest in being called all the names under the sun while I play my game because of my opinion, please understand the difference.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Doubtful. I've been helping a recently returning pre Job Point era Blue Mage get caught up and the JP BSTs we run with are still far superior. Don't make it sound like it's so black & white, absolutely nothing was touched on BST that severely weakened it, as in there's no reports or data posted by anyone, not even SE that shows they nerfed all of the pets, suddenly nerfed every BST WS and nerfed every BST ability.

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BLU was already a better damage dealer. They didn't have to touch anything.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

It's not even for privacy sake or anything, as said they don't want to be confronted in game because they know they start BS with people on the forums and too scared to own up to it.

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What exactly do I have to be "Scared" of?

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Originally Posted by Olor

I'd rather they did a damage nerf than the distance nerf. The distance nerf ruined BST for me. A damage nerf - heck, I was playing BST before they buffed pet WS so I am sure I'd still be playing if they took the damage down a notch. The distance nerf punished long time BSTs, not bandwagoners.

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This is the key. Nothing needed adjustment with job abilities, an adjustment to the pet aoe damage would have made people happy, bandwagons change jobs and left long time BST mains with the core functionality we've always had and SE needs to give back.

SE please, do this.

Dale, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. I prefer anonymity because having someone spend an entire week, hopping from one mule to another, to send you messages about exactly what kind of horrific things they want to do to you, along with strings of expletives, and have the GMs do absolutely nothing about it, is not enjoyable. Unfortunately, I can't get that because, foolish person I am, I decided to use my main's name for stuff.

You have made it obvious time and time again your hatred of BST is not based in facts. You apparently know nothing about BST gear, how BST works, or a host of related matters. And your intense desire to what to know who people are leaves me thinking that you want to know that simply so you can track them down and harass them via other means.

This thread has devolved from arguments about the relative merits of BST, and how it compares to other jobs, to a single person demanding personal information about others. A person who has repeatedly been rebuked and corrected, and that sort of behavior almost always means exactly one thing: "I cannot win this argument, so I want to harass you where I won't get banned for it."

What I can't believe is that you guys still respond to Dale.

I don't think Dale has said anything especially contentious, and I have often enjoyed reading his many posts about PLD, a job he clearly cares about deeply.

I think this argument is just a by-product and clear sign of the depth of feeling that people have about the BST nerf. People are not just complaining about the nerf, they are genuinely upset and hurt about how it has made their job less enjoyable.

BST isn't really gimped, but it is less fun to play and more of a headache to play usefully. People are very upset about this, and it is hard to remain calm when you are very upset. Hopefully SE will see that many BST players are genuinely hurt by this update, it has caused more harm than good, and they will rectify it. In the meantime I don't think that fighting with other FFXI Fans is going to achieve anything, except causing upset to everyone. We all have our opinions and perspectives, and we are all FFXI Fans first, specific jobs second.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I don't think Dale has said anything especially contentious, and I have often enjoyed reading his many posts about PLD, a job he clearly cares about deeply.

I think this argument is just a by-product and clear sign of the depth of feeling that people have about the BST nerf. People are not just complaining about the nerf, they are genuinely upset and hurt about how it has made their job less enjoyable.

BST isn't really gimped, but it is less fun to play and more of a headache to play usefully. People are very upset about this, and it is hard to remain calm when you are very upset. Hopefully SE will see that many BST players are genuinely hurt by this update, it has caused more harm than good, and they will rectify it. In the meantime I don't think that fighting with other FFXI Fans is going to achieve anything, except causing upset to everyone. We all have our opinions and perspectives, and we are all FFXI Fans first, specific jobs second.

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Well stated Stompa.

I have been BST main for most of my XI life and SE ruining the functionality of BST has taken the fun out of playing the job. It doesn't function correctly and have had to shelve my main out of frustration.

I continue to hope SE will restore BST to how it was before the Nerf and lower the aoe-dmg of jugs instead. Like the sentiment previously noted by Olor, I was BST main before jugpets had powerful damage and it wont dissuade me from playing the job if it still didn't have powerful damage aoe jugs now. It's unfortunate that I can get decent magic burst damage from trusts while playing another job (not going to mention it in fear SE will ruin another job) and out damage what I was seeing on BST, but I digress. BST needs repaired.

As for the conflict in the thread, I wish people would just 'report' offensive posts rather than reply to them. Community rep's obviously read these threads but have left this one alone like the plague. I'm hoping Camate will reply on this thread and let BST's know things are going back how they were while they evaluate a better adjustment if one is needed. Given the far-better setups for the events that lead to the complaints on BST being done faster/better on other jobs with with far more damage and MB'ing making said events laughable (and yet still requires specific jobs or bust - removing BST from the shouts only changed what limited-jobs are shouted for, it didn't magically open up to all jobs being viable), it would be better to just leave BST as it was before the nerf and hope SE doesn't just nerf anything with high damage. Could you imagine if SE "adjusted" damage-cap for each single action to 10k dmg? ohnoes my MB doesn't do 99999 dmg anymore.... point made.

Stompa, I'd like to point out that I don't even play BST and I don't like the nerf.

I don't even log in anymore and am playing another game. That's how much it upset me by SE taking the fUn factor out of my main.

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Originally Posted by Malthar

I don't even log in anymore and am playing another game. That's how much it upset me by SE taking the fUn factor out of my main.

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This. I did log in to get a new player started last night but... it really makes me sad to play now.

I deactivated my account. If this mess gets resolved I'll come back but otherwise I'm just gonna move on, and It wont be to ff14.

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Originally Posted by Faithful

I deactivated my account. If this mess gets resolved I'll come back but otherwise I'm just gonna move on, and It wont be to ff14.

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I understand this. If it doesn't change soon I will be in the same boat. I'm basically only staying subbed at this point to get the last of the new trusts before the end of content.

My happiest memories of FFXI were the times when I helped players farm coffer keys, artifact, or I helped them take down a strong monster that dropped the item they really wanted. When I heard those players being so happy afterwards, and showing off their artifact etc. it made my heart fill with joy, and fly around like a drunk pigeon.

That is why this BST situation is really making my heart heavy. I can see these players are not just fronting or complaining for the sake of it, these players are really unhappy. Its like the opposite of what I spent 90% of my FFXI play-time trying to achieve, which was Happy Players. It really saddens me to see players being so unhappy, and I hope SE will consider nerfing BST in a different way, like slight lowering of damage or something. Nobody wants to see BST players being this unhappy, or feeling unable to give pet treats to their beloved animals.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

My happiest memories of FFXI were the times when I helped players farm coffer keys, artifact, or I helped them take down a strong monster that dropped the item they really wanted. When I heard those players being so happy afterwards, and showing off their artifact etc. it made my heart fill with joy, and fly around like a drunk pigeon.

That is why this BST situation is really making my heart heavy. I can see these players are not just fronting or complaining for the sake of it, these players are really unhappy. Its like the opposite of what I spent 90% of my FFXI play-time trying to achieve, which was Happy Players. It really saddens me to see players being so unhappy, and I hope SE will consider nerfing BST in a different way, like slight lowering of damage or something. Nobody wants to see BST players being this unhappy, or feeling unable to give pet treats to their beloved animals.

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Finally, A Taru that make sense. Now it's your turn Akihiko Matsui. We know you're a Taru too and you been a really bad Taru so make everyone happy and give BST their range back.

Since we're all on this amazing bandwagon of wanting everything for our jobs, I think summoner needs a range attack option to get tp, Some summoners have spent a great deal of money getting weapons that have great weaponskills on them that we can never use. Now with the extension of our range SE has told us we have no place close to the monsters. This isn't fair to us as we're use to fighting along side out pets and using such abilities to get back mp and even enhance our avatars.

I think an easy fix is to upgrade all of summoners armor to heavy armor so we can actually take a hit and with skill know not to run up to the monster when they're not doing a large AoE attack.

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Originally Posted by Ataraxia

Finally, A Taru that make sense. Now it's your turn Akihiko Matsui. We know you're a Taru too and you been a really bad Taru so make everyone happy and give BST their range back.

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I hope the Action Group For Rights Of Vertically-Challenged Persons doesn't see this post about Tarutarus!

But seriously, earlier on in this debate, I was saying that BST was always about risk / danger with charm etc. and that is true, so I thought that maybe this update would add a danger element which would help to rebalance BST a bit after the Stout Servant / Mulsum turbo-boost, siege-engine factor.

But reading all the posts, its clearly upset people so very much that it can't be right. People are saying they would accept a lowering of damage, or tweaking things somehow, but not if it radically changes the whole playstyle that people enjoy. I can totally see their point.

So I have edged across the aisle on this subject, and think there should be a different rebalancing system, that will be okay with those who consider the job OP, and still allow BST to play the job with the strategies they enjoy and have already built gear-sets around.

I have already suggested a rebalancing paradigm that would fit perfectly, but SE seems to have glossed over it.

Vary pet damage with master distance.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

Since we're all on this amazing bandwagon of wanting everything for our jobs

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Lol when SE makes you stand in silence/amnesia aura range to be able to use your ja's, I'm sure lots of people will support your efforts to have it fixed.

We're not asking for anything special, we just don't like our mains broken either. It's not hard to understand there are better options than breaking our playstyle.

Lowering pet-aoe dmg would have cleared the queue of bandwagoners. Even if SE puts things back where they belong, BST won't be the main job asked for now that people realized and are currently using far stronger and overpowered setups than before our Nerf BST could potentially have been.

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Originally Posted by Jile

Lol when SE makes you stand in silence/amnesia aura range to be able to use your ja's, I'm sure lots of people will support your efforts to have it fixed.

We're not asking for anything special, we just don't like our mains broken either. It's not hard to understand there are better options than breaking our playstyle.

Lowering pet-aoe dmg would have cleared the queue of bandwagoners. Even if SE puts things back where they belong, BST won't be the main job asked for now that people realized and are currently using far stronger and overpowered setups than before our Nerf BST could potentially have been.

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many forget that summoner had a huge setback when our 2hr Alexander was downgraded for many events to bring balance to the game. It was the only things summoners were used for but at the same time we had for once a place in endgame events. It wasn't the fact they gimped the ability so bad but to throw it in our faces that you needed 600 summoning magic just to get the full 60seconds out of it when the highest at the time i think was 517 was a total insult to us. But the one good thing that came out of it was it got rid of the bandwagoners, thats all i see with this is that it will kill off those who didn't know the job and allow those who know what they're doing to continue on with very little change to things.

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many forget that summoner had a huge setback when our 2hr Alexander was downgraded for many events to bring balance to the game. It was the only things summoners were used for but at the same time we had for once a place in endgame events. It wasn't the fact they gimped the ability so bad but to throw it in our faces that you needed 600 summoning magic just to get the full 60seconds out of it when the highest at the time i think was 517 was a total insult to us.

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Still didn't stop people from using SMNs though

All it did was maybe make them have to bring more SMNs

Embrava took a much bigger nerf than PD did, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

it got rid of the bandwagoners, thats all i see with this is that it will kill off those who didn't know the job and allow those who know what they're doing to continue on with very little change to things.

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You're wrong tho. Obviously a lot of long-time BST main have been posting on this and the other threads discussing this. This nerf isn't killing off those who don't know the job, its ruining the game for any real BST, like myself, that are not enjoying what SE has done to a job we love.

As if that were not bad enough, the nerf does not work effectively and SE has not redesigned our gear to 'function' with a no-distance setup.

I do not want SE to waste development time on re-engineering BST gear so when our pet has ACC/ATK/PDT/MDT/etc that we have it at the same time, when they could lower the aoe-dmg, making bandwagoner's go toward other jobs... and letting the people that love BST be able to play it as we have for over a decade.

I don't care if they remove pet aoe damage completely making us fight one target a time - I just want the job to work again. When I press a macro and I'm standing behind a mob that uses conial charm, my pet should still be able to be rewarded and right now that's not the case. The continued disillusion that this is an issue of wanting to be overpowered or wanting more than we deserve is shortsighted and naive. SE needs to restore BST back to an enjoyable playable job again before they stop doing major updates - every job should be enjoyable to their respective playerbase, no job should be treated this disrespectfully.

I work hard in most of my posts to avoid discussing where specifically other jobs are overpowered - right now SMN is very obscenely overpowered and I don't want it nerfed either because I don't want any job ruined at this stage of the game, period.

Jile, this is the problem: you're arguing with people who don't play BST, don't understand how it works, and think this is all about damage output.

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Originally Posted by machini

Jile, this is the problem: you're arguing with people who don't play BST, don't understand how it works, and think this is all about damage output.

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You're right, I know. I keep hoping that throwing logic out enough times will help.

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Originally Posted by machini

Jile, this is the problem: you're arguing with people who don't play BST, don't understand how it works, and think this is all about damage output.

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i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

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I don't think it has lost sympathy. I think most people would rather see other DD jobs be more useful than see this job be less useful. Messing with BST doesn't fix anyone's problems and most people are smart enough to see that.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea

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I find it ironic then that you play a job that is setup to play precisely how we used to be although you do have an endless supply of pets tied to an almost non-existent recast timer vs our call-pet timers and you can kite and run away letting your pet auto-attack while never establishing additional enmity yourself, when needed, not to mention your damage per second for a properly geared SMN matches and can surpass BST dps yet you keep advocating negativity toward BST.

Pot calling the kettle black.

BST is a ranged-dmg job, like SMN. We are not geared to be effective when our pets are effective, we have no business being near the mob when we're having our pets hit unless SE redesigns our gear to match this new expectation of BST contributing toward a fight rather than wasting everyone's time being an MP sink just to be engaged and add our sub-par melee dmg in, so we can be close enough to our pet's to contribute dmg.

I feel like no matter how many times we repeat ourselves, you're not going to understand why this isn't about us trying to get-one-over on the system, we have been working within the confines of the design of the system since day one - now that SE adjusts our entire gameplay, without adjusting our gear to match this new expectation, the job is supremely less effective and absolutely unwelcome by the people SE should be listening to, the people 'paying' to play BST for the last decade.

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Originally Posted by Secondplanet

i've played bst and it wasn't my cup of tea, i understand fully well its not about damage output but you're a heavy armor class job that wants to be backline job for safety, why doesn't all other DD jobs start arguing about how fast they die from AoE's like everyone else. The game has become aimed at range jobs doing damage at a safe distance while the only job (pld) that has the -pdt -mdt is the only one able to take the damage. This argument has long since lost its sympathy from players as you're not the only ones whos jobs have become useless to the high artificial difficulty that SE has forced into the game.

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Just gonna chime in. BST doesn't wear heavy armor. It's a Medium Class, the same as THF, MNK or DNC.

Again, I can't seem to stress this enough, BST isn't the only one playing it safe. SAM does and is STILL doing, and they have better overall Job Traits than BST. 85% of BSTs' Job Traits are Killer Traits or Pet Related ones. Resist Amnesia, Resist Slow, and Fencer, Those are the things that BST has to work with. Outside of trash mobs in Delve, you aren't going to use MOST of the Killer Skills. and Fencer is useless because there aren't any shields the really compliment BST and with an E rank, the shield blocking rate is crap. Beatific Shield +1, Deliverance +1, Evalach +1, Forfend +1... THESE are the only 119 Shields that BST can use. -25% MDT, 2x PDT-4%, and a DT-4%... If you want to get on the lower end, the Matamata Shield gives a -8% PDT. It's not fair to penalize the job for the lack of gear, abilities, and traits other jobs get.

THF gets Triple Attack, Sneak Attack, Bully, Feint
MNK gets Counter, Martial Arts, Kick Attack, Formless Strike
DNC has Flourishes and No Step Rising

This is about on par with people inviting SMNs back in the day to be gimped healers for parties. BST has ALWAYS been about playing the distances and only fighting when it needs to, it's not some surprise last minute thing that just now started showing up. Grab a pet, Leave it when it's about to die, tame and grab the next one, sic/snarl, Repeat.

I will keep saying it over and over: It's not the job, it's the content. Give BSTs better Gear, JA, and Traits to keep them alive and truly functional as a DD Class and let it so their pets can equally function. SMN gets away with focusing on their Pet, and that works for a Mage job, but that's not the same for BST.

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Originally Posted by Zeargi

Just gonna chime in. BST doesn't wear heavy armor. It's a Medium Class, the same as THF, MNK or DNC.

Again, I can't seem to stress this enough, BST isn't the only one playing it safe. SAM does and is STILL doing, and they have better overall Job Traits than BST. 85% of BSTs' Job Traits are Killer Traits or Pet Related ones. Resist Amnesia, Resist Slow, and Fencer, Those are the things that BST has to work with. Outside of trash mobs in Delve, you aren't going to use MOST of the Killer Skills. and Fencer is useless because these aren't an shields the really compliment BST and with an E rank, the shield blocking rate is crap. Beatific Shield +1, Deliverance +1, Evalach +1, Forfend +1... THESE are the only 119 Shields that BST can use. -25% MDT, 2x PDT-4%, and a DT-4%... If you want to get on the lower end, the Matamata Shield gives a -8% PDT. It's not fair to penalize the job for the lack of gear, abilities, and traits other jobs get.

THF gets Triple Attack, Sneak Attack, Bully, Feint
MNK gets Counter, Martial Arts, Kick Attack, Formless Strike
DNC has Flourishes and No Step Rising

This is about on par with people inviting SMNs back in the day to be gimped healers for parties. BST has ALWAYS been about playing the distances and only fighting when it needs to, it's not some surprise last minute thing that just now started showing up. Grab a pet, Leave it when it's about to die, tame and grab the next one, sic/snarl, Repeat.

I will keep saying it over and over: It's not the job, it's the content. Give BSTs better Gear, JA, and Traits to keep them alive and truly functional as a DD Class and let it so their pets can equally function. SMN gets away with focusing on their Pet, and that works for a Mage job, but that's not the same for BST.

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BST is heavy armor class just look at Tartarus Platemail as an example

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Originally Posted by Shinun

BST is heavy armor class just look at Tartarus Platemail as an example

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1 armor does not a heavy make. The heavy classes are: PLD, DRK, SAM, DRG, WAR

While BST does get a few 'heavy armors', more of it's armor sets come from the Medium classes. You can use Dynamis as an example as well, The ones listed above are proc.ed by WS because they have high HP and DEF. While MNK, BST, THF, RNG, etc are JAs :3

It's sort of in-between. BST has been grouped with heavy (both Delve sets, lol Ebon sets) and medium (Salvage, add-on final rewards). With the sphere bodies, it gets both the heavy and medium ones, much like how PUP gets medium and light sphere bodies.

If we had to list the jobs by armor class it would probably look something like
WAR/PLD/DRK
DRG
SAM
BST
NIN
THF/RNG/COR/DNC/RUN
MNK
BLU
PUP
RDM
BRD
WHM/BLM/SMN/SCH/GEO

Good point about the Dynamis procs. From what I can tell, they generally considered BST heavy during original/RotZ era (Adaberk), then medium in CoP through Lv99, and now they're more often heavy in iLv era.

This is a moot point as a large amount of damage reduction comes from gear, abilities and / or spells that BST will not be using a large portion of the time (if at all) due to the need to keep the pet alive and perform ready moves.

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Originally Posted by Jile

BST is a ranged-dmg job, like SMN. We are not geared to be effective when our pets are effective, we have no business being near the mob when we're having our pets hit unless SE redesigns our gear to match this new expectation of BST contributing toward a fight rather than wasting everyone's time being an MP sink just to be engaged and add our sub-par melee dmg in, so we can be close enough to our pet's to contribute dmg.

I feel like no matter how many times we repeat ourselves, you're not going to understand why this isn't about us trying to get-one-over on the system, we have been working within the confines of the design of the system since day one - now that SE adjusts our entire gameplay, without adjusting our gear to match this new expectation, the job is supremely less effective and absolutely unwelcome by the people SE should be listening to, the people 'paying' to play BST for the last decade.

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Seriously... who cares what the armor LOOKS LIKE. It might as well be a wet paper bag for all the difference it makes to actual damage taken.

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BST is a ranged-dmg job, like SMN.

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Beast WAS a ranged-dmg job, like SMN.

*ducks*

Of course, it should be, for the exact reasons you stated. If you didn't have to give up pet performance to not whiff up a storm while meleeing against high level enemies, perhaps more people would do it.

(this change might have been more tolerable if they also made changes to make the approach they're forcing on BSTs more viable)