sadly GM's appear to have dropped the ball

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Originally Posted by Mordanthos

we are all fighting over what right this is violating and blah blah blah, when we should really be looking at this horrible childrens style game mechanic where a mob loses 100 percent agro or in this case, the claim, becuase everyone in the group is charmed, dont blame the other group, blame SE for there moronic mechanics that just dont work for anything properly.

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That's not what happened, nor is it the problem. Read again.

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Originally Posted by SNK

If it's yellow. It's fair game. End of Story.

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Then it should pop yellow, because "Your Pop Item" is not yours. The NM can be, then, legally taken by any party, abrogating the ownership of the content the pop item represents.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

Then it should pop yellow, because "Your Pop Item" is not yours. The NM can be, then, legally taken by any party, abrogating the ownership of the content the pop item represents.

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Pop Item represents initial Claim on the Enemy, You pop means you have the initial Claim. They do not represent unconditional claim.

From that point on its in the players hand to ensure this monster presented to them remains their own.

This Forum is up in arms about how simple abyssea is and how easy FFXI, but apparently keeping a mob claimed is super hard?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

He said pop sets plural, but... one pop set certainly couldnt have taken 6 hours, and I find it hard to believe that they failed C.C. multiple times and had it stolen every time.

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Thats just it, I dont see how they lost 6 hours because 1 Cirein got jacked, unless they actually spent 6 hours on Heqet/Cep.

I read it was later clarified that it was 1 Cirein that was jacked...but thats not 6 hours lost.

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Originally Posted by Nynja

Thats just it, I dont see how they lost 6 hours because 1 Cirein got jacked, unless they actually spent 6 hours on Heqet/Cep.

I read it was later clarified that it was 1 Cirein that was jacked...but thats not 6 hours lost.

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It's pretty much already been confirmed that the OP was just exaggerating out the ass to wahhhh and rage about their lost Cirein rather than having any sort of legitimate point.

Losing gracefully is a sign of true sportsmanship, especially when your opponent refuses to show the same courtesy.

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Originally Posted by Starcade

Then it should pop yellow, because "Your Pop Item" is not yours. The NM can be, then, legally taken by any party, abrogating the ownership of the content the pop item represents.

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We just finished a guy's Ochain from a group of people that wiped to a T3 in the range. The only reason it didn't despawn after Tidal Wave one shotted everyone was because their WHM was out of range and afk when it started beating on her. Was yellow for a good 10-12 seconds before we claimed it and killed it for 5 damage with Chi Blast.

When you wipe to a T3 you don't get to try again because once it goes passive, then it's gone and nobody gets anything. I feel no qualms or shame about killing that T3 because their whm could have killed it with Holy or something but instead she was at about 4% Hp before we took it.

Keep crying harder mental case.

This Post is Pointless cuz should know it charms ppl should had ppl out it rang and kit it.

I have also been a victim of said actions in the OP.
And GMs also did nothing.

The tos for normal NMs is because GMs dont want to deal with the drama-lama LSs that like to steal from each other.
But this is a different story.

The thing is. It is NOT a normal NM (e.g Heqet). It is a force pop NM (e.g. Cerein-Crion). A NM you spend time to get the pop sets for. A NM you put in work and effort to pop.
No matter the arguement, it is not the same as each other.
The fact that another group receive no punishment for taking another group's time, effort and of course their force pop NM is sheer blasphemy.
It is these kind of things that make it a crime. Where there should be justice. There is none.

Blasphemy? Justice? Really?

It has absolutely nothing to do with how much time, or "effort", a group puts into getting a pop set. That pop set is used to give you the initial claim on the monster, nothing more. It prevents you from having to compete with other groups for a spawn claim. That is the reward you get for putting forth the effort to create a set. You are not, ever, entitled to the NM itself beyond that initial claim.

Once you forfeit that claim, the NM is no longer yours. If you want to reassert your claim, the NM becomes yours again. If you fail to reassert your claim, and someone else claims it, the NM becomes theirs.

Those are the rules. Period. Regale us all with your thoughts on justice as much as you like. That will not change the fact that it is absolutely not against the rules to take an NM that goes white. Ever. No matter who spawned it, or how long it took to spawn.

What is against the rules is taking actions against other players which would cause an NM to go white. Those rules are enforced, strictly.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Blasphemy? Justice? Really?

It has absolutely nothing to do with how much time, or "effort", a group puts into getting a pop set. That pop set is used to give you the initial claim on the monster, nothing more.

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Then it doesn't even give you that. If I can steal a monster, given any loophole in the game which allows me to do so, then it's not even their initial claim. All they did was put an aggressive monster into play, especially because they have done nothing to get on it's hate list. If they can lose the spot because they are not on the hate list, then the monster (as I said before) should only pop purple/red if the content is exclusive to the popping alliance.

Any other result renders kill stealing, content monopolization/denial, and griefing completely legal in FFXI, because the most effective way to advance in Abyssea vis-a-vis NMs is to identify when a group is badly inferior to killing a desired NM, steal it, spit in their face, and tell them to go play WoW.

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

It prevents you from having to compete with other groups for a spawn claim. That is the reward you get for putting forth the effort to create a set. You are not, ever, entitled to the NM itself beyond that initial claim.

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There's no reward unless the content is exclusive to the popping alliance. If you are not ever entitled to the NM beyond the supposed "initial claim", you were never entitled to it in the first place. The only reason that kill steals are not more prevalent is because of the fact that the game has attempted (with some success) to tighten up the situation.

But minus making the content NM specifically exclusive to the popping alliance, the NM was _NEVER_ theirs to begin with, and neither was their pop.

Do you see how ridiculous you sound?

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Once you forfeit that claim, the NM is no longer yours. If you want to reassert your claim, the NM becomes yours again. If you fail to reassert your claim, and someone else claims it, the NM becomes theirs.

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And that's the problem. No one else has the right to claim it -- EVER. Unless you basically want to say that the initial claim did not belong to the popping alliance, because the monster can not, then, belong to the popping alliance (beginning, middle, nor end).

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Those are the rules. Period. Regale us all with your thoughts on justice as much as you like. That will not change the fact that it is absolutely not against the rules to take an NM that goes white. Ever. No matter who spawned it, or how long it took to spawn.

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Then it's similarly not against the rules for me to do anything in my power to ensure that NM goes white if I wish to steal it from you. Two can play the loophole game, and you don't want me playing that loophole game.