Summonable avatars - List which ones you want to see implemented

they should give us eden/zodiark as a 2 hour smn and then give us promathia and altana as reg. summons :o

I'd like to see something that doesn't require Astral Flow.

Why not include Avatars with long recast times or other limitations instead? Change the utilization up a bit.

Bahamut, 5 min. recast.
Bahamut has powerful BP's, but does not melee. Flare attacks could be heavily based on range (it will never engage, and the SMN can use this along with some skill to adjust Bahamut's range to the optimal distance).
AF would let you use Mega Flare.

Phoenix, 15 min. recast.
Relatively weak, mostly used as a safety net or a placeholder (like a rebirth) for next summon. You can summon Phoenix while another avatar is out, but once summoned the other avatar will disappear- you would not have two avatars at a time. Phoenix would have no BP's and weak melee, but instinctively casts Raise (scaling with level) on anyone within the player's alliance (within a large radius).
Phoenix has an inherent trait that allows it to remain active for 20 seconds after the SMN is defeated. Within that time (if it is not defeated), Phoenix may cast Raise on the SMN (within a large radius).
AF could grant a "Rebirth" AoE effect on party (not alliance) that does not leave the targets weakened- Phoenix disintegrates, leaving a single feather that falls to the ground and revives the party. AF effect ends after one use.

I was talking more about overlooked in terms of summons. There are summons from Sumerian, Islamic, Medieval Christian, Greek, Celtic, Norse, Hindu, Aztec and other mythologies but as far as I can recall not ancient Egyptian which surprises me since there's so much fodder, they had Gods up the wazoo!

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Originally Posted by Septimus

If I had access to spoiler tags, I could explain how they could easily allow Phoenix to be a summon despite of his status in the story line. But it has to do with Bennu (who is considered the prototype for the Phoenix mythology) and his special status in Egyptian Mythology. In fact, I have often wondered if that is why things turned out they way they did for Phoenix considering the depth of knowledge they demonstrated in the example that I posed above.

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It would be funny to have Bennu as a summon that sometimes comes instead of Phoenix & rains bananas down on the enemy.

CoP SPOILERS follow in white text, highlight it to read it.

I doubt it for one I just read back over ALL the CoP script that referenced Phoenix & yes Phoenix died early on but it was still alive enough to resurrect Selh' teus & unless there's a CS with no dialogue that shows Phoenix & Selh' teus merging (it's been a long time since I did CoP so I don't remember) like a lot of people seem to think I can't find anything in the dialogue that says that. Here is the only text I found regarding Phoenix & Selh' teus from “A Fate Decided”

Prishe: Phoenix...
Phoenix was with you, right?
She brought you back to life.

Just because Phoenix the bird of resurrection brought him back to life doesn't mean they merged & Prishe says “was” with him as in past tense not is within him. I know at this point Sel starts sporting some pretty rockin wings but that’s a typical motif for FF. A character undergoes some big transformation (like dying & being resurrected) & comes out with a pair of wings denoting its status as being in a more powerful form. Anyway I don't think it matters what happens in one story line it's not hard to come up with a work around & Phoenix being an avatar of rebirth makes it that much easier. People often cite CoP as a reason Phoenix is “gone forever & can never come back” but I don't see it.

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Originally Posted by Strife

I was talking more about overlooked in terms of summons. There are summons from Sumerian, Islamic, Medieval Christian, Greek, Celtic, Norse, Hindu, Aztec and other mythologies but as far as I can recall not ancient Egyptian which surprises me since there's so much fodder, they had Gods up the wazoo!



It would be funny to have Bennu as a summon that sometimes comes instead of Phoenix & rains bananas down on the enemy.

CoP SPOILERS follow in white text, highlight it to read it.

I doubt it for one I just read back over ALL the CoP script that referenced Phoenix & yes Phoenix died early on but it was still alive enough to resurrect Selh' teus & unless there's a CS with no dialogue that shows Phoenix & Selh' teus merging (it's been a long time since I did CoP so I don't remember) like a lot of people seem to think I can't find anything in the dialogue that says that. Here is the only text I found regarding Phoenix & Selh' teus from “A Fate Decided”

Prishe: Phoenix...
Phoenix was with you, right?
She brought you back to life.

Just because Phoenix the bird of resurrection brought him back to life doesn't mean they merged & Prishe says “was” with him as in past tense not is within him. I know at this point Sel starts sporting some pretty rockin wings but that’s a typical motif for FF. A character undergoes some big transformation (like dying & being resurrected) & comes out with a pair of wings denoting its status as being in a more powerful form. Anyway I don't think it matters what happens in one story line it's not hard to come up with a work around & Phoenix being an avatar of rebirth makes it that much easier. People often cite CoP as a reason Phoenix is “gone forever & can never come back” but I don't see it.

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It would be interesting for Square to throw some summoning love to the Egyptian Mythology, but they obviously do know a fair amount about it if they can throw in something as little-known as the Ba and Ka thing.

Anyway, I guess I could do the white text thing for a highlight to cover spoilers.

Bennu is the Ba (soul) of Amun-Ra. (Or Ra-Atum or the many other name combinations. Also, sometimes Horus, but I think that was in New Kingdom mythology.) Anyway, after Tenzen unleashed the Phoenix flame onto Bahamut, Selh'teus absorbed Phoenix to keep Phoenix from returning to the Mother Crystals. That is why Selh'teus later showed up with wings and a fancy an avatar glow. (Avatar glows were actually added in that update for this purpose I believe. Oh, and this is also why Promathia upgraded to Shiryu after he ate Selh'teus in Abyssea.) Anyway, the whole thing with Selh'teus and Phoenix is very comparable to Amun-Ra and Bennu to the point that I believe that it was completely intentional. I believe that we could get the whisper from a fight with Selh'teus, and that will allow you to summon Phoenix's true form from him. (Whisper of Rebirth? Whisper of Ascension? Whisper of Imperishably? Although that last one might only be reserved for "Ford-tough shields of forever and ever"...)

At least this is how I see the whole situation through a casual knowledge of Egyptian Mythology.

And the Banana thing is kind of funny. Although I would imagine that casting "Stop" on all enemies in addition to light-based damage would be more appropriate if Bennu showed up instead of Phoenix. Which could be an interesting mechanic.

CoP spoilers below in white highlight to read.

Do you remember when in the CoP story line Selh'teus absorbed Phoenix? When I read over the mission dialogue for the fight with Bahamut where Phoenix is released it basically just says "Ru roe Bahamat's about to use megaflare everyone bend over & kiss you ass goodbye!". Then "Holy rarab balls we're alive! Phoenix must've released all her power & shielded us from Bahamut's attack. QQ now she's gone."

The only other reference I saw regarding Phoenix's whereabouts/ status after that was the quote in my earlier post after Selh'teus came back Prishe saying Phoenix was with him & revived him. Like I said though it's a long time since I did CoP so if there's a suggestive CS with no dialogue I've probably forgotten about it.

More spoilers abound!

After Tenzen released Phoenix from his sword to stop everyone from being killed by Bahamut, the next scene was Selh'teus by the Al'Taieu Mothercrystal where he was speaking to Phoenix's disembodied form, the "shower o' feathers" and opens up the emptiness for Phoenix. (His exact words were "Let me release you for your journey to the mothercrystal...") When Selh'teus shows up in the cutscene for A Fate Decided he now flies, sports an avatar glow (which was added specifically in that patch), big-honking wings, and a very familiar "shower o' feathers" every time he appeared and disappeared. (Which looked like he was summoned and de-summoned.) You might be thinking "But Selh'teus said that he was sending Phoenix to the mothercystal", but the effect that Selh'teus used was the same effect that Promathia used when he absorbed Nag'molada. In the When Angels Fall cutscene, Nag'molada is ranting mad to (a dead) Yve'noile and says something along the lines of "Why am imperfect when the betrayer (Selh'teus) has ascended."

So, while not stated explicitly, we are left to infer that Selh'teus absorbed Phoenix, and we have a situation very similar Atum-Ra and Bennu.

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Originally Posted by Selzak

I'd like to see something that doesn't require Astral Flow.

Why not include Avatars with long recast times or other limitations instead? Change the utilization up a bit.

Bahamut, 5 min. recast.
Bahamut has powerful BP's, but does not melee. Flare attacks could be heavily based on range (it will never engage, and the SMN can use this along with some skill to adjust Bahamut's range to the optimal distance).
AF would let you use Mega Flare.

Phoenix, 15 min. recast.
Relatively weak, mostly used as a safety net or a placeholder (like a rebirth) for next summon. You can summon Phoenix while another avatar is out, but once summoned the other avatar will disappear- you would not have two avatars at a time. Phoenix would have no BP's and weak melee, but instinctively casts Raise (scaling with level) on anyone within the player's alliance (within a large radius).
Phoenix has an inherent trait that allows it to remain active for 20 seconds after the SMN is defeated. Within that time (if it is not defeated), Phoenix may cast Raise on the SMN (within a large radius).
AF could grant a "Rebirth" AoE effect on party (not alliance) that does not leave the targets weakened- Phoenix disintegrates, leaving a single feather that falls to the ground and revives the party. AF effect ends after one use.

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I really like this, I'd like to see Bahamut get his hands a bit more dirty instead of two avatars not being able to melee.

I'd rather see Phoenix sit back and cast stuff at range.

Also I think most summoners want to be a bit more involved in whats going on instead of turning back and sitting and letting the avatar do its own actions, would be rather boring.

I think Selzak has made one of the only viable suggestions in this thread. It's hard to make a serious comment here; half of the people are just saying "Wouldn't it be cool if...?" and the other half are really bucking for new avatars from other games, etc. Like someone else said, I hate to troll but - GUYS - there will not be any new, controllable avatars. There just isn't space for them to animate something new with all of its BPs. Selzak's suggestion has two advantages: it's a novel mechanic and it's actually realistic. Anything we get will be what's already in the game, and more than likely will follow in the same vein as Odin and Alexander.

There's really no reason NOT to get Bahamut. His importance to a storyline is no moreso than our new 2hr toys. All of his abilities and animations are in place. If SE wants to maintain his status as being above the other avatars, just make him another 2hr. He can be scaled to be no more obnoxious than Diabolos (which is a dumb complaint, but there it is). And why not be able to summon a cavernous maw? Just because they're fixtures in the world doesn't mean we can't make another one appear (see also: elementals and avatar-clone Abyssea NMs). Maybe Atomos could be used to teleport party members to different cities, past and present. Why not? It would just be another teleporter NPC, and a player-contributed transport option like that is years overdue in this game.

Yeah, a lot of you have had a lot of really interesting big ideas... But in the spirit of posting constructive things on the official FFXI forums that I actually would want SE to consider seriously, I'm giving Selzak a thumbs-up. If they ever drop PS2 support, then we can start aiming high with new ideas.

i just want phoenix. when they made WotG, i was extremely hopeful that phoenix would not be dead yet in the past, and we could gain her as a summon. unfortunately i only think we'll get atomos if anything. was kind of hopeful for slyph too though. i always liked whispering wind (the slyph version, not the garuda version). at first, the addition of pixies had me thinking we might get her, but it's probably not gonna happen. would be neat though. could have 3 pixies, each with their own separate HP pool. even if they were only 1/3 as much HP as a normal avatar, that would make 1-shotting them impossible without a strong AoE. might be nice for kiting/soloing strong mobs.

Phoenix ^^ and its 2 hour will be a raise-ga ^^