New Ammunition & Method for Obtainment

We hope that you (and your wallets) been enjoying the Recycle/Scavenge adjustments! We're pleased to announce that this was just the beginning of the ammunition plans we have in store for you!

During the next version update we will be adding new ammunition. This ammunition will correspond to the ranged weapons that can be obtained via Delve, and below is what we have planned:

• Method of obtainment
  Exchange Mweya Plasm acquired from Delve
  
• Obtainment requirements
  It will be possible to obtain the ammo when you are able to exchange for the respective weapon as follows:
  Arrows – Speleogen Bow
  Bullets – Surefire Arquebus
  Bolts – Illapa
  
• Stats
  The damage value and stats will match that of the content level (Arrows and bullets are content level 14, and bolts are content level 20.)
  
• Other
  It will be possible to exchange for quivers of ammo as well. :)

I'm kinda shocked that no one replied to this (yet)... so let me break the ice...

While I love that you are trying to introduce new and viable alternatives to crafting to obtain expendable ammunition, for the love of god, why add more to Delve... we need MILLIONS of plasma as it is...

Why not add it to something that we have an ABUNDANCE of with NO VALUE like, oh, I don't know CROUR!!?

"Fracture" "Farming" is the -worst- thing ever added... It's abysmal with pick-ups, a complete waste of time (most of the time). God forbid your Paladin lose connection mid-super-tank, kiss 10-15 minutes goodbye while people run around dying like chickens without their heads.

It's an AWESOME step in the right direction, but dear christ, give us a conversion of CROUR to something useful like plasma... The requirements for maximizing (just ONE SET) of gear and ONE weapon is already pretty harsh, let alone the people who want to play more than ONE JOB... I can pretty safely say without even seeing how much you're going to make it cost, IT'S GOING TO BE TOO MUCH, EVEN with the recycle adjustments.

Or even add it to bayld so there's at least a SMALL reason to do colonization... cause right now, all our zones are going to drop to -ZERO- colonization by July, except for Ceizak (because its RIGHT outside the city).

I agree with Karah that there should be a cruor type of ammunition, but it should be a weaker version than the Plasm ones... Plasm weapons are very strong, meaning the ammunition will be brought up in damage too if it is from Delve.

Also, I haven't had an issue farming fracture runs O.o I noticed you're on my server...what time do you usually do Plasm farm runs? I am eastern time and I do them at night. Groups seem to be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slib

I agree with Karah that there should be a cruor type of ammunition, but it should be a weaker version than the Plasm ones... Plasm weapons are very strong, meaning the ammunition will be brought up in damage too if it is from Delve.

Also, I haven't had an issue farming fracture runs O.o I noticed you're on my server...what time do you usually do Plasm farm runs? I am eastern time and I do them at night. Groups seem to be fine.

---

I don't really want to take this thread down that road, so if you want to go there, tell me in game, but "Fine" is not "Good enough".

"Fine" is "wasting MY time" (and yours).

Drop based content (Voidwatch) is "fine" because if you win, you win, you don't do Voidwatch for crour, you do it for drops, (or lack thereof).

TIME based content is not and should never be "fine".

If you go solo dynamis and get 100 coins that's "fine".
If you go solo dynamis and get 150 coins that's "good enough". Which is acceptable.
If you go solo dynamis and get 200+ coins that's "worth doing".

*dynamis is an EXAMPLE* of timed content. (all dynamis is a waste of time now).

I imagine you'll only NEED this ammo to challenge the really high level content, it won't become the default. Therefore I approve this message :-)

how about shuriken for nin(obtainable with the katana ki ?)

I know I will get trolled to death for this but...all forms of ammo should either be

A: non consumable
or
B: non-existent (as in equip a bow/gun and your good)

Ammo in todays gaming market is a far archaic concept that forces some jobs to be constantly spending gil to continue to play it. It is a burden to jobs such as rng and cor who not only have to farm tons of gear like anyone else, build an e/r/m to stay on top but also spend gillions just for the ability to do something as basic as generate damage.

The sheer fact the game forces a player to generate so much gil on basic necessities such as ammo, spell scrolls, dice, attachments, etc is a huge turn off for many players and creates a larger market for rmt.

My vote is just to do away with ammo completely or make it non-consumable. It was a happy day for us arc/brd when SE announced they were getting rid of ammo in x|v and were not going to reintroduce items such as spell scrolls, they need to bring that concept to xi as well.

You won't get trolled to death by me, at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

You won't get trolled to death by me, at least.

---

:D

I have brought up that point before and had tons of replies talking about how that is the stupidest idea ever because it takes away from immersion or realism lol. But I think it is something that should be seriously considered.

Wow, lol, what an idiotic idea....make ammo non-consumable? Seriously? I guess next you'l want food to be changed to a non-consumably thing like a job ability? Don't be silly. If ammo is that much of an issue to you, either level woodworking or level another job. Non-consumable..LOL

oH, AND AS FAR AS "WHA DONT MAKE IT PLASM, I NEED A BILLION PLASM" stop being impatient children. You remind me of my son who lost interest in the game because he couldn't go from 1-99 on his first job in 2 days. Delve weapons , gear, and soon to be ammo are not meant to be for the feint of heart that dont want to expend effort. It is elite gear, meant for people ho are willing to dedicate a lot of time and effort to it. the guy that doesn't feel like delving for the stuff shouldn't HAVE the stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zeldar

oH, AND AS FAR AS "WHA DONT MAKE IT PLASM, I NEED A BILLION PLASM" stop being impatient children. You remind me of my son who lost interest in the game because he couldn't go from 1-99 on his first job in 2 days. Delve weapons , gear, and soon to be ammo are not meant to be for the feint of heart that dont want to expend effort. It is elite gear, meant for people ho are willing to dedicate a lot of time and effort to it. the guy that doesn't feel like delving for the stuff shouldn't HAVE the stuff.

---

Here is the problem, if the hardest thing in the game is Delve, and you spend more Delve Ammo than you get doing Delve, why get the ammo? It seems to me if you are getting it and you have to use up this expensive ammo then you are probably going to use it on the hardest thing around, which is itself, and if your not making as much back, then it becomes a pointless investment, you should just spend it on gear which effects all of your ammo rather than one which is expensive and exclusive. Just to say, when I mention it being expensive I mean to say that you will probably be spending more on that ammo than you should, so much so that you are getting less damage in the end by neglecting to upgrade gear and weapons with it. Also, non-consumable ammo would allow for them to add in augments to the ammo, they can not if it is consumed, because even if they did, I am not sure who is retarded enough to spend 60 Mil to finish a single arrow or stack of arrows which are slightly stronger. Basically them being non-consumable, sounds like a good idea!

Greetings,

In regards to the new ammo to be added via Delve content, I would like to point out a couple of things.

First, while this ammo can only be obtained from Delve, it is not limited to use with Delve weapons. You will be able to use it with any weapons that can utilize the ammo. However, just like the rest of the Delve equipment it will not be possible to sell or trade them.

Next, I am sure a lot of you are curious about the damage values on this new line of ammo. Though this is still being worked on and there may be some changes, the below values are what we are planning:

• Arrows: Damage 74 (content level 14)
• Bullets: Damage 196 (content level 14)
• Bolt: Damage 93 (content level 20)

Also, once again I would like to repeat something that was mentioned prior by Producer Matsui, but after a certain amount of time has passed with this content and when harder content is implemented, we will be making adjustments so that it is easier to play. Additionally we will be implementing a variety of content with the same content level.

Any word on throwing ammo? Shuriken used to be the most powerful damage. It would be nice to see some new ones added with delve level dps. Just make sure it isn't as expensive or rare as its predecessors were.

/sarcasm no more than 1000 plasm per shuriken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

In regards to the new ammo to be added via Delve content, I would like to point out a couple of things.

First, while this ammo can only be obtained from Delve, it is not limited to use with Delve weapons. You will be able to use it with any weapons that can utilize the ammo. However, just like the rest of the Delve equipment it will not be possible to sell or trade them.

Next, I am sure a lot of you are curious about the damage values on this new line of ammo. Though this is still being worked on and there may be some changes, the below values are what we are planning:

• Arrows: Damage 74 (content level 14)
• Bullets: Damage 196 (content level 14)
• Bolt: Damage 93 (content level 20)

Also, once again I would like to repeat something that was mentioned prior by Producer Matsui, but after a certain amount of time has passed with this content and when harder content is implemented, we will be making adjustments so that it is easier to play. Additionally we will be implementing a variety of content with the same content level.

---

* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate evades
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate dodges
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate switches target


hehe :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chimerawizard

Any word on throwing ammo? Shuriken used to be the most powerful damage. It would be nice to see some new ones added with delve level dps. Just make sure it isn't as expensive or rare as its predecessors were.

/sarcasm no more than 1000 plasm per shuriken.

---

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Seriously?! you are going there after whatshisface got hounded off the forum for suggesting ninjas ought to use that throwing skill? brave man...

Why are the "content level 20" bolts lower than current offerings(Damascus Bolts)?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crutan

Why are the "content level 20" bolts lower than current offerings(Damascus Bolts)?

---

Maybe it will have like Acc+50 or something wacky. The X-bow does come from Delve boss, so it is possible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elphy

* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate evades
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate dodges
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate switches target


hehe :D

---

It's simple, really. Non-consumable ammo would really hurt the game's economy, and completely screw over crafters. That said, putting those bullets/bolts/arrows in delve will kind of screw over crafters anyway, until crafters get access to a craftable, competitive alternative.

I'm sorry but anyone who still harps on "virtual economy" after the complete slap in the face of adoulin gear/weapons needs to be drug into the street, beaten and shot.

The ENTIRE economy is SOLELY based around food, and airlixirs. (and to a lesser extent, pops for delve field nms).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Glamdring

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Seriously?! you are going there after whatshisface got hounded off the forum for suggesting ninjas ought to use that throwing skill? brave man...

---

I am quite proud on my NIN. It's just as awesome as it has always been. Lv.37.

More serious, I remember a NIN/DRK that used to kick everyone's butt in parse. He'd also sometimes spend 500k-1m at an event when he did that. One day he got thrown in with a large ban sweep. Guess I know how he afforded it. :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elphy

* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate evades
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate dodges
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate switches target


hehe :D

---

Probably because to change ammo to be non-consumable would require a significant change in code and/or design. It'd be more trouble than what it's worth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chimerawizard

Any word on throwing ammo? Shuriken used to be the most powerful damage. It would be nice to see some new ones added with delve level dps. Just make sure it isn't as expensive or rare as its predecessors were.

/sarcasm no more than 1000 plasm per shuriken.

---

Pretty much unless Shuriken had 700 DMG and 1 delay, it'd be better to just continue your melee DPS :(, I think they'd need to buff Throwing for NIN before hey considering applying a Shuriken Bandage.

I mean, I'm not against it, If anything it'd be nice for the shuriken users, but, Wish they'd enhance that aspect of the job if it would benefit the job as a whole.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elphy

I have brought up that point before and had tons of replies talking about how that is the stupidest idea ever because it takes away from immersion or realism lol. But I think it is something that should be seriously considered.

---

Because a game with catgirls and two-foot-tall magical midgets is sooo realistic. =P

I do agree with you. It helps in making certain jobs more appealing to play.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karah

I'm sorry but anyone who still harps on "virtual economy" after the complete slap in the face of adoulin gear/weapons needs to be drug into the street, beaten and shot.

The ENTIRE economy is SOLELY based around food, and airlixirs. (and to a lesser extent, pops for delve field nms).

---

I like the way you think.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Pretty much unless Shuriken had 700 DMG and 1 delay, it'd be better to just continue your melee DPS :(, I think they'd need to buff Throwing for NIN before hey considering applying a Shuriken Bandage.

I mean, I'm not against it, If anything it'd be nice for the shuriken users, but, Wish they'd enhance that aspect of the job if it would benefit the job as a whole.

---

Standard delay for Shuriken is 192. With the extra ranged delay added in, that's about 2.6 seconds. Pamun +1 has 125D with ~2s delay (After assuming 50% DW). With capped haste it's 0.8s.

In order for a single Shuriken to outdo an unbuffed Ninja's Pamun+1 it needs to have 163D or so. A capped haste Ninja (not too rare) would require a 407D shuriken. I'm too lazy to consider fSTR2 and higher ranged ratio but it's not like a Ninja will get anywhere near capping either of those anyway.

Sange is worth considering since it'll let you lob 5 at once or whatever, if they want us to only use Shurikens when Sange is available I would ask that we get something like 400+D shurikens when you consider you need to spend 2 seconds just using the dumb JA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crutan

Why are the "content level 20" bolts lower than current offerings(Damascus Bolts)?

---

Most of us are also wondering this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Keyln

Probably because to change ammo to be non-consumable would require a significant change in code and/or design. It'd be more trouble than what it's worth.

---

Because anyone here actually knows how hard or easy it would be.

Here's my equally unfounded opinion: It would be as hard as changing a 0 to a 1 in a server config file/UI somewhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kincard

Standard delay for Shuriken is 192. With the extra ranged delay added in, that's about 2.6 seconds. Pamun +1 has 125D with ~2s delay (After assuming 50% DW). With capped haste it's 0.8s.

In order for a single Shuriken to outdo an unbuffed Ninja's Pamun+1 it needs to have 163D or so. A capped haste Ninja (not too rare) would require a 407D shuriken. I'm too lazy to consider fSTR2 and higher ranged ratio but it's not like a Ninja will get anywhere near capping either of those anyway.

Sange is worth considering since it'll let you lob 5 at once or whatever, if they want us to only use Shurikens when Sange is available I would ask that we get something like 400+D shurikens when you consider you need to spend 2 seconds just using the dumb JA.

---

Appreciate putting real numbers on my wild overexhaggerations XD.

But, If i may? Are you considering TP gain in this equation? Dual Wield hits are going to net you about what, 10~11TP or so? Where as Shuriken are going to net you about 5-6, So while with a D:407 Shuriken you'll get the same damage, You get half the TP, making it still, far less useful as it'll impact your WS Frequency, which is generally the biggest issue with Shuriken.

Which is why, in one of my few "Pro Shuriken" Posts, I suggested SE introduce a Job Trait that increases TP Gained by Shuriken by 1 (Up to 5) per trait level, Starting at level 15, maybe even let us merit it up to ~15.

Further, You're also assuming you have 0 Double Attack, Triple Attack, or Quad Attack... The math changes a bit when you get there, Its also assuming your Acc/atk is the same as your R.acc/R.atk, while is almost never the case. D:407 would be a good start, But honestly it'd still be awful once you factor in everything ^ there.

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mirage

Because anyone here actually knows how hard or easy it would be.

Here's my equally unfounded opinion: It would be as hard as changing a 0 to a 1 in a server config file/UI somewhere.

---

It wouldn't be that hard to make an educated guess based on general principles of game design and programming. Given that the design of the game is that almost all ranged items are consumed among being thrown (with a few notable exceptions), and if using a ranged item in the ammo slot, all of them are being consumed. Thus, given the current design, it would be a major task to change this to be non-consumable.

Even if it were as simple as changing a flag, it would have to be done to every single consumable ammo item in the game, and changing that and testing every single item would be a testing nightmare.

Seriously, you guys are way too hard on the SE devs sometimes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

---

That's pretty much what I wanted to show. The amount of DMG needed for Shuriken to be remotely useful is absurd. This is on top of the fact that Ninja doesn't have very many good ranged attack armors (There was a time when Ninja Tekko +1 was ridiculously powerful for ranged attacks if you wanted to Gun NIN but these pieces are few and far in between). This is assuming I want to use that inventory space at all. I'm running around with like 78/80 inventory on Ninja and I don't have a single piece of ranged attack gear or even ninjutsu nuking gear. SE doesn't seem to realize that the only reason RNG is powerful is because they can reduce their ranged delay consistently, can multiattack their arrows and have something like +60 accuracy in traits and thus can focus on investing all their gear into improving the higher fSTR2 and Ratio numbers for ranged attacks.

The best NINs can ever hope for is for Sange to be the one time you throw stuff (You'll throw 5 shurikens with the delay of just 1, after all). In order for this to happen I'd estimate it'd requiring Shurikens with at least 300 DMG.

Seems that puts the Delve Gun+Bullet base damage lower than the Delve Bow+Arrow base damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elphy

* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate evades
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate dodges
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate switches target


hehe :D

---

Some ideas are just too silly to respond to.

Hmmm,ok Bow and gun r really nice,but put there ammo too?for plasm?im not a mage type,most my jobs r DDs,so i mostly dont have chance to do Delve as it is,because i just dont have the right job for it,workin on Ochain to get at least a chance to join,so i think to put ammo for plasm is a really bad Idea

scavenge is not scavenging anything. thf 71/rng 35 ps2, elvaan male, many uses, many areas, avg: 20 times per area
different areas over one week: 10.

Greetings,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by crutan

Why are the "content level 20" bolts lower than current offerings(Damascus Bolts)?

---

Apologies! This was actually a mistake and the new bolts to be introduced for Delve will be stronger than Damascus Bolts.

Also, there have been some inquiries about whether new shurikens will be added as an item that can be exchanged for bayld or plasm. We do not have any plans at the moment for this; however, we will add them in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alistaire

Some ideas are just too silly to respond to.

---

They're actually making ammo nonconsumable in FFXIV: ARR. It was originally consumable.

It was also switched from consumable to nonconsumable in the DS remake of FFIV.

It's always been nonconsumable in FFIV: The After Years and FFXII.

I think FFXI and old FFIV are the only FF games with consumable ammo now (oh, and Dirge of Cerberus), but I still don't think SE is willing to make such a massive change with FFXI.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Okipuit

We do not have any plans at the moment for this; however, we will add them in the future.

---

Translation, "we're saying future, and by future we mean so far away that no body cares any more. you know, like how we used the word 'future' in the past?"

Had this argument before they released this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kristal

Almost as if they forgot to put a 1 in front of that 96. Maybe the unreleased delve bullets are that powerfull? (DMG:500, costs 30.000 plasm for 99)

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leatherman

I agree on the damage adding a 1 in front of it :) but bullets with 500 damage for 30k a stack that's just ridiculously stupid, isn't it easier to just say "We made a mistake on the damage of this weapon, here's what we meant..."?

---

And I still think it's beyond "STUPID", now I'm convinced DEV Team needs to be fired... At least all of them that come up with crap like this...

ff8 had consumable Ammo on Irvine's Limit break :D

But yah, I like that they're making ammo non-consumable in FFXIV, like most of the current MMOs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

But yah, I like that they're making ammo non-consumable in FFXIV, like most of the current MMOs

---

Huh? Where did they say this?

Edit: Ignore me, I'm dumb and can not read FFXIV... saw FFXI... v_v