To: Mr Akihiko Matsui

I hope you bring the old Final Fantasy XI game back. Every sense abyssea the games turned into s$$t. Alot of older players think so as well and thats why they stoped playing the game.
I herd a rumor that they planed on making this game out to be like World of Warcraft. IF you turn this game into another WoW clone thats it for me.

I'm not really sure what to do about the leveling system either. Sense all the Newb's only want to do 18 man partys doing grounds of valor so when they do get high enough to do other stuff they have no idea what they are doing. There still quite of few of us who love to do the old 6 man party sets up but its more defacult now then it use to be even tho I'm still able to do it with enough shouting in town to find people to join. I've notice they put a cap on lower level pages in abyssea zone for lower level's, Maybe put a 1 game day limit on page's in grounds of valor would stop those 18 man party's and maybe not.

And on a side note would be nice to get male mithria adding to this game and battle choco's :D just my 2 cents hope you read it.

Regards
Loyal FF player sense 04

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

I hope you bring the old Final Fantasy XI game back. Every sense abyssea the games turned into s$$t. Alot of older players think so as well and thats why they stoped playing the game.
I herd a rumor that they planed on making this game out to be like World of Warcraft. IF you turn this game into another WoW clone thats it for me.

I'm not really sure what to do about the leveling system either. Sense all the Newb's only want to do 18 man partys doing grounds of valor so when they do get high enough to do other stuff they have no idea what they are doing. There still quite of few of us who love to do the old 6 man party sets up but its more defacult now then it use to be even tho I'm still able to do it with enough shouting in town to find people to join. I've notice they put a cap on lower level pages in abyssea zone for lower level's, Maybe put a 1 game day limit on page's in grounds of valor would stop those 18 man party's and maybe not.

And on a side note would be nice to get male mithria adding to this game and battle choco's :D just my 2 cents hope you read it.

Regards
Loyal FF player sense 04

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It was always a pain in the butt to get a six man group together, so it seems that nothing has changed for the people who prefer that size group. Why try and force the people who don't want to party with you to do something they don't like? Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Most people are completely content with the way leveling works now.

:( There's no dislike button...

No most ppl just like the idea of going AFK for hours and getting free exp. It wasnt always hard to get partys going. Depending on the time of day. Sometimes i could have a complet party set up in 5 mins or less.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

I herd a rumor that they planed on making this game out to be like World of Warcraft. IF you turn this game into another WoW clone thats it for me.

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If by "WoW clone" you mean "successful game with a fuckload of subscribers", then sure. I don't see the point of any part of your post other than to cry about things you have limited knowledge about at best.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

No most ppl just like the idea of going AFK for hours and getting free exp. It wasnt always hard to get partys going. Depending on the time of day. Sometimes i could have a complet party set up in 5 mins or less.

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Well then that's what they like. You don't have to do it if you don't want to (unlike what you are suggesting be done to them).

So I'll ask again: Why do you want to be around people who don't want to be around you? and why should a game company cater to people who want to make other people unhappy?

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

It was always a pain in the butt to get a six man group together, so it seems that nothing has changed for the people who prefer that size group. Why try and force the people who don't want to party with you to do something they don't like? Sounds like a terrible idea to me. Most people are completely content with the way leveling works now.

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I've got an answer for you. When this game was released, and up until Abyssea, there was a fanbase of, I don't know specifically, but a much greater percentage than those that remain today. Abyssea ripped much of what we knew the game to be right out of the hands of those who were actually enjoying themselves, believe it or not; Those who didn't mind putting a little effort behind their mid-game simply for the sake of the feeling of accomplishment, if anything else.

There's a few concepts that you, and many of those who support your argument, simply don't seem to understand. One of those is the illusion of choice. Because of the ratio in number of folks who prefer, (and I use that term loosely, point), the greased rail to endgame and the small remaining minority, those of the latter group are forced to either conform to the norm, go solo, or find another game. And even going solo provides only a percentage of the challenge that used to exist in the game, as it's far more productive to spam pages of EP mobs.

Another concept is that this game is an RPG, and RPG's, since the beginning of RPG time, have had content to experience and enjoy at all levels of progression. There's always been a story, a journey, a gradual curve of character growth in ability. With this system, do you have any of that? Are you sure it's an RPG you want to be playing?

The real problem I have, for one, is SE took the game and flipped it on its head for no apparent reason other than to garner a new playerbase, which is fine, except they did it while giving out a big "fuck you" to the rest of us. The "rest of us" being those who played the game because we liked what it had to offer.

Honestly "gathering groups" for party used to be very specific to certain jobs [eg, it was pretty hard for me to obtain a party as Thief unless I made it, and even then I had problems on occasion because I couldn't find a white mage, or a DD, or a tank, among other problems], and the grind to 75 wasn't a complete issue, it was fun to an extent, sure.

However: Meripo was tedious, admit it. Grinding on birds for ridiculous skillchains is as fun as grabbing dolls in altepa, except mages can do the damage instead of just DDs. The "endgame" for FFXI was stripped to the "elite few", where most of the player base was excluded, in linkshells that had an exorbitant amount of drama, flawed "lot point" systems, unrealistic entrance requirements [aka, you needed to have a decent amount of gear before coming in], and very, very corrupt leaders. Abyssea pretty much allowed everyone else to play on an equal standing and have a chance at good gear -- the "elites" just learned how to do it in lower numbers.

Abyssea wasn't a curse to this game -- it was instead, a boon, because it brought a breath of life to this game once more, facilitating a tedious process for newcomers and certain older players, allowing for more dynamic play and a faster pace.

I admit, it fell flat with the proc system -- it made many jobs obsolete, but other than that, it was still a decent design.

That said, these are just my opinions, but I highly disagree about abyssea being a problem.

Also: I'm pretty sure the reason why there's less people today isn't because of abyssea, but instead because the game is already past the decade milestone, and a lot of people got bored, or just moved onto something else, not because of abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

No most ppl just like the idea of going AFK for hours and getting free exp.

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I absolutely adore that. That's about the only thing I like about Abyssea. I'd pay 1M for an hour of EXP rather than doing that shit myself.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

No most ppl just like the idea of going AFK for hours and getting free exp. It wasnt always hard to get partys going. Depending on the time of day. Sometimes i could have a complet party set up in 5 mins or less.

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Not everyone does that. I wouldn't call it free; it can cost anywhere from 400k~1mil.

As for "it was always easy to get a party going", looking at your main job makes that statement kind of obvious. Now if you were a Beastmaster or Summoner level 99 for a main job, I might scratch my chin and think about that for a moment. Of course Red Mages got invited to parties quickly! Hell, whenever I'd log on my Bard to do Dynamis or Salvage, I'd get literally 10 /tells asking to join people's parties. But you know what? That's not for every job in this game; such a luxury was for a select few. The beautiful thing about Abyssea is that all jobs can enter and be given a fair chance to play.

Honestly there's a good handful of people who want to level old school. Just ask them. Shout in Jeuno and make that party "in five minutes or less"; I can guarantee you'll have as much luck today as you did eight years ago -- being able to Level Sync will accommodate the sparsity of members your level who can tank and heal.

I would also propose avoiding Fields of Valor and Grounds of Valor as that will make the EXP too fast and too mainstream. Also don't use EXP bands because they're also a newer addition to the game and the EXP was massively increased as is. Wouldn't want to unbalance the oldschool feel!

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I've got an answer for you. When this game was released, and up until Abyssea, there was a fanbase of, I don't know specifically, but a much greater percentage than those that remain today. Abyssea ripped much of what we knew the game to be right out of the hands of those who were actually enjoying themselves, believe it or not; Those who didn't mind putting a little effort behind their mid-game simply for the sake of the feeling of accomplishment, if anything else.

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Oh my God the misinformation levels of these forums always drive me insane! I don't understand how everyone can be so naïve when the knowledge is easily accessible. I don't understand how people can be so foolish when they were supposedly playing when said events unfolded! Perhaps bad memories? Perhaps rose tinted glasses? Come on.

The truth is that the game's population began to decrease rapidly before Abyssea was even mentioned to the playerbase. Before Abyssea was even added to the game there were server merges -- my server was one of the ones to disappear. It was after the merge that Abyssea came, not before it. Do you know why the server had to merge? Because many players were bored of the stagnation of the game and left. Our populations were so low Square Enix deemed us in dire need of a boost of life and thus kicked us onto Bismarck. For the record my first Abyssea party was a LaTheine worm party on Bismarck.

Many players have returned because of Abyssea. Some have left again, some have stayed. It seems there are more people leaving because they're upset that the game isn't making other players suffer as much as it used to. Good riddance I say! At the end of the day it's a game and it should be pleasurable. Square Enix didn't remove the old way of playing the game, so those who are upset by the new additions should gather like minded people and do old content in the old fashion.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

There's a few concepts that you, and many of those who support your argument, simply don't seem to understand. One of those is the illusion of choice. Because of the ratio in number of folks who prefer, (and I use that term loosely, point), the greased rail to endgame and the small remaining minority, those of the latter group are forced to either conform to the norm, go solo, or find another game.

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Hmm, sounds the same as always. I had to solo on Beastmaster. And had to solo on Summoner. Many players in this game have come to understand the idea of soloing. Personally I prefer it to working with other members, but I'd not want to rain on other people's parades by demanding the party system be abolished so everyone had to play my way -- why should it be the case here?

Obviously if "oldschool" is such a minority then that tells you something; that system was unwanted. If it was more pleasuring then more people would do it. Wanting to get stuff done faster? Well yes, it is a video game so clearly people don't want to spend four or five real life hours obtaining one level when they could spend the same four or five hours and gain half of their levels. The sooner someone levels, the sooner they can cap skills (and don't you dare start the "Abyssea = no skill" bull) and the sooner they can do content in the game they deem fun. If you deem leveling fun, then make a party and do it that way. The amount of people who like slow and sluggish EXP are few and far between, but still possible to locate.

As someone who used to play the game solely for the leveling up system, I have to say I also open my arms to welcome the change that is Abyssea. After my seventh job to 75 I was getting burned out on EXP myself. After starting a new character (and having to relevel all of his sub jobs!) I'm thankful to have a system to do this quickly with.

Oh, and as a disclaimer because I see that I left that window of opportunity open, skills were not magically capped in the oldschool ways. Some DDs capped, yes, but a lot of tanks had defense skills they had to force up painfully, DDs had other weapons they didn't often use in exp parties to skill up, and mages had awful magic (usually defensive) they had to try and push forward. Back eight years ago, skill up parties were all the rage and there were always lots of them to be found (especially in The Boyahda Tree and Kuftal Tunnel). Surprisingly, after Abyssea, such parties don't really exist anymore. Once in awhile I'll see a shout or a group from Linkshell go, but for the most part, people just solo their skill ups now, and seem to do it fast enough. It's better to spam to 99 and then level up skills afterwards because at least 99 has more options to Haste gear and Accuracy. And, you'll know what the final cap is to aim for.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

And even going solo provides only a percentage of the challenge that used to exist in the game, as it's far more productive to spam pages of EP mobs.

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I love soloing! I find it can be very challenging, and very rewarding. Nothing like being able to take down foes that everyone claimed you couldn't! :) And there's always less idiocy to mess up the success rate.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Another concept is that this game is an RPG, and RPG's, since the beginning of RPG time, have had content to experience and enjoy at all levels of progression. There's always been a story, a journey, a gradual curve of character growth in ability. With this system, do you have any of that? Are you sure it's an RPG you want to be playing?

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Unfortunately it has the three letters MMO in front of it. While I love RPGs (though hate leveling and how long half of them draw the story out, but I digress) there's a significant difference between RPGs and MMORPGs. Really, the MMO is the most important acronym and shouldn't be overlooked. That MMO means I'm playing the game with other people, and will more than likely need their help to succeed in my goals. Unfortunately, being forced to play with other people means I have to deal with their stupidity and their needs too. The most effective way to take care of them and myself with the least amount of time required is to be max level and have good gear. I also feel it'd be rude to expect people to help me at a low level when I could be a much higher level and be of more assistance to them. Or even worse, expect people to help me when I can have the capabilities to do it myself.

Also I can't recall the cutscenes ever changing in this game because of my level. Pretty sure the story stays intact. So, that reasoning for wanting things to go back to the old way is quite flawed. (Besides, even preAbyssea people spammed to 75 and did fights like the Shadow Lord at max level. I was one of the few who did him at level 50 and let me tell you, it was really scary and consumed a good six hours of a night.)

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

The real problem I have, for one, is SE took the game and flipped it on its head for no apparent reason other than to garner a new playerbase, which is fine, except they did it while giving out a big "fuck you" to the rest of us. The "rest of us" being those who played the game because we liked what it had to offer.

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If you like the pain and suffering of the old game then go for it. Nobody's stopping you. There are plenty of people on these forums bitching the way you do, so consider playing with them. Seriously. Don't drag everyone down into your pity party because many of us actually enjoy the tracks the game is on now. It's fun. It's a game. I like the fact that Square Enix has reminded us it's a game, not a lifestyle and not a job. It used to be a lifestyle and a job. Now it's a game. And for that I thank them whoreheartedly.

http://i1198.photobucket.com/albums/...gain_super.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

I hope you bring the old Final Fantasy XI game back. Every sense abyssea the games turned into s$$t. Alot of older players think so as well and thats why they stoped playing the game.
I herd a rumor that they planed on making this game out to be like World of Warcraft. IF you turn this game into another WoW clone thats it for me.

I'm not really sure what to do about the leveling system either. Sense all the Newb's only want to do 18 man partys doing grounds of valor so when they do get high enough to do other stuff they have no idea what they are doing. There still quite of few of us who love to do the old 6 man party sets up but its more defacult now then it use to be even tho I'm still able to do it with enough shouting in town to find people to join. I've notice they put a cap on lower level pages in abyssea zone for lower level's, Maybe put a 1 game day limit on page's in grounds of valor would stop those 18 man party's and maybe not.

And on a side note would be nice to get male mithria adding to this game and battle choco's :D just my 2 cents hope you read it.

Regards
Loyal FF player sense 04

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As a person that has played this game since one month after the ps2 version in NA was launch, I'm sorry you feel that way, because if you have ever played any of the hundreds mmos that came out since ff11 you will notice all the other mmos have fixed all the stuff that many the 2.5mil users back when the ps2 version of ff11 launch complained about.

Abyssea started to fixed all that stuff, then they stopped and went back to the old way and that's why people are leaving the game, yes there is small hardcore base that will never leave and are mad, because square should have done some kick ass stuff for that 5 % of elitegroup of players and they didn't.

Only thing even keeping this game alive is because newbies can actually do some of the amazing cutscene and other stuff because they can lv faster since that 5% will not like to be bothered anymore.

I once remember when i mule a dozen of the servers after the COP failure , I would do a world search and only be 350 maxed people on during NA times, and then aht urghan brought it up to around avg of 3k people then the xbox version got it back to around 4.5k to 5k people every 24 hrs, abyssea was 5k to 6k for yr, now down to 2k avg with merge servers and the last yrs after the abyssea content sucked, and went back to the old ways no balance or real leadership.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka

No most ppl just like the idea of going AFK for hours and getting free exp. It wasnt always hard to get partys going. Depending on the time of day. Sometimes i could have a complet party set up in 5 mins or less.

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You can do this in any party or group IF, the group allows it. I don't want to go back to the system where you search for a party an hour then get to a camp and someone has to, go followed by looking for members again, only to disband..

DON'T WASTE OUR TIME!

What your looking for is an inactivity monitor. Unfortunately, all someone would need to do is caste dia,cure on a mob or swat one every 5 min to remain active.

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Originally Posted by Meyi

:( There's no dislike button...

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Yes so everyone who dislikes the other persons post can like this Meyi's post. :p

If you dislike the OP's post click like on Meyi's 3rd post as a vote against the OP's post.


Next time you see a horrible IDEA post this..

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There's no dislike button! Click like on my post to vote dislike for original posters idea.

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Well... The game is in it's current state, because simply there's no longer enough people on the same level range to allow for the original "form party, party hard, disband and look for party again". It's why back in 2006/7 people would spend three to four hours (depending on job) or not get a party at all.

Things like level sync and Abbyssea came to solve a serious playability issue the game had. Most people are now on the cap level and want to gear up their high level jobs.

So they have no drive to level other jobs. This is the problem. It's not the game.

In a MMORPG it's the desires of the population along with the goals and path set by the developer which define where the game goes to. If the developers did not implement the changes to:

make stuff soloable
increase level ranges for partying
making alternative level up possibilities

this game would be dead by now.

Leech mode probably came to be from what the devs seen with players doing SMN burn parties.

Now, there's very good arguments on this thread. I'm just trying to add to it. :)

Im completely against everything in the OP.

I am however in favor of SE adding a new "Old School" or "Vanilla" server, where the level cap is 75 and everyone on it has to start from scratch, and it has all content up to Abyssea and the first level cap increase. Someone should make a new thread about this.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I've got an answer for you. When this game was released, and up until Abyssea, there was a fanbase of, I don't know specifically, but a much greater percentage than those that remain today. Abyssea ripped much of what we knew the game to be right out of the hands of those who were actually enjoying themselves, believe it or not; Those who didn't mind putting a little effort behind their mid-game simply for the sake of the feeling of accomplishment, if anything else.

There's a few concepts that you, and many of those who support your argument, simply don't seem to understand. One of those is the illusion of choice. Because of the ratio in number of folks who prefer, (and I use that term loosely, point), the greased rail to endgame and the small remaining minority, those of the latter group are forced to either conform to the norm, go solo, or find another game. And even going solo provides only a percentage of the challenge that used to exist in the game, as it's far more productive to spam pages of EP mobs.

Another concept is that this game is an RPG, and RPG's, since the beginning of RPG time, have had content to experience and enjoy at all levels of progression. There's always been a story, a journey, a gradual curve of character growth in ability. With this system, do you have any of that? Are you sure it's an RPG you want to be playing?

The real problem I have, for one, is SE took the game and flipped it on its head for no apparent reason other than to garner a new playerbase, which is fine, except they did it while giving out a big "fuck you" to the rest of us. The "rest of us" being those who played the game because we liked what it had to offer.

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Funny, apparently you never leveled beast, blm, sum, pup, thf etc. before the addition of abyssea. As a matter of fact, I suspect that you didn't level much back then, because if you did, you wouldn't be worried about this now. You would be finished leveling everything.

Your argument counters itself in that: There are not enough people who want what you want. If there were, you would be playing with them, not complaining about how they don't exist, so SE should make them for you.

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/...read-again.jpg

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Originally Posted by Meyi

If you like the pain and suffering of the old game then go for it. Nobody's stopping you. There are plenty of people on these forums bitching the way you do, so consider playing with them. Seriously. Don't drag everyone down into your pity party because many of us actually enjoy the tracks the game is on now. It's fun. It's a game. I like the fact that Square Enix has reminded us it's a game, not a lifestyle and not a job. It used to be a lifestyle and a job. Now it's a game. And for that I thank them whoreheartedly.

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Yes, they are, in fact. If you want proof, just go ahead and do a /sea all XX-XX inv and send tells to everyone in that list and count the number of "lol" and "No thanks." you get in reply for a classic party. You may say it's because that old way was more like a job, but if you ask me, it sure beats the hell out of AFKing to progress. No, I challenge the idea that it's more like a game now than it used to be; Once upon a time, we embraced the difficulties and looked at them as challenges to be accepted and overcome. We did that, or we got so angry that we threw the controller at the screen and hastily shut the game down and probably never turned it back on. That's what a reasonable person does when they accept defeat at something they're just no good at or can't be bothered with. FFXI was not the first game to do this, and I hope to god it won't be the last, but I fear that may very well be the case.

The fact you seem to think that "afk to exp" is the only way there is just shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.

It's entirely possible to get a party outside of abyssea, and still get 100k+/hr even with average everyday people, no 99 PLs involved.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

The fact you seem to think that "afk to exp" is the only way there is just shows that you have no clue what you're talking about.

It's entirely possible to get a party outside of abyssea, and still get 100k+/hr even with average everyday people, no 99 PLs involved.

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Oh? How? And what makes you think I care about 100k+/hr?

Not saying everyone is like this, but on average, non JP players (there's JP players like that, too don't think I am generalizing too much) tend to assume a self centered position and prefer to cater to solo play. That's one of the reasons the game was great on the beginning and so horrid after a few years. Everyone had achieved most of what they wanted, even the "chronic team players" had the jobs they liked leveled already. So new players would have nobody to play with.

Making it easier to level had a interesting effect of encouraging people in trying new jobs, recycling existing players and putting "new oil" on the game rusted grinder gears.

It all boils down to having or not people to play with in the very end.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

We did that, or we got so angry that we threw the controller at the screen and hastily shut the game down and probably never turned it back on. That's what a reasonable person does when they accept defeat at something they're just no good at or can't be bothered with.

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Perhaps you are just no good at or can't be bothered with FFXI? Why do you even have jobs left to level? It seems like groups were super easy to get and everything was fun back in the day according to you guys who have been around since back when FFXI was a real game. Why didn't you level them back then? I blame you for the death of the six man group. If you had done it back then, perhaps it would still be around today. Shame on you.

Someone who truly enjoyed the smooth fun exciting experience of a six man exp party should have had Maat's Cap several years ago and be onto bigger better things by now.

Another day and another thread of "bring back the old school FFXI".... some people just cannot move on to the future and still live in the past. Old school is still in the game, with a much better revamped system such as level synch, double the xp, exp ring, plus FoV or GoV xp bonus. And yet so many of us do not do the old school way, because it is archaic, takes too much work, and only applicable to static party. Things change for a reason or two. If anything the new person in charge should really look at WoW and what made the game very successful and copy it with FF flavor and try to spins it his way. I think abyssea is one of the absolute best add ons they ever created in a very long time. My only wish is that people would just move on from abyssea and swore of it so that I can have the whole 6 zones for myself and never have to deal with competition at all :)

Even though I dearly enjoyed the past of FFXI, bringing the old school game back at this point would mean quick ruin for this title.

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Originally Posted by FrankReynolds

Perhaps you are just no good at or can't be bothered with FFXI? Why do you even have jobs left to level? It seems like groups were super easy to get and everything was fun back in the day according to you guys who have been around since back when FFXI was a real game. Why didn't you level them back then? I blame you for the death of the six man group. If you had done it back then, perhaps it would still be around today. Shame on you.

Someone who truly enjoyed the smooth fun exciting experience of a six man exp party should have had Maat's Cap several years ago and be onto bigger better things by now.

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Funny you ask. What happened was I quit XI and deleted my character a few weeks before the release of FFXIV. Now I'm back. I quit that game only because you can cap a job in a single day and there is virtually no mid-game. Perhaps you'd be better off sticking to asking questions rather than jumping to conclusions.

Yup the old school way is afk for 2-3 hours while LFG and come back to see that you still gain zero xp. The new way is afk on alliance party and come back to see you gain a few levels!! Who gives a crap about how you get your level, as long as you take time to learn the job and grind for your gears.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

I quit that game only because you can cap a job in a single day and there is virtually no mid-game.

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There was never a mid-game in FFXI.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instanc...0/22110572.jpg

Before abyssea came out, the developers got away with doing practically almost nothing with each content update. All they did was minor tweaks, and not much. Updates were few and far between and they pretty much have the attitude of "we are always right and the costumers are always wrong." Abyssea changed the game for the better, each content is fully realized, with tons of things to do and completely accessible for all. Not only that, the whole attitude started to change and we get more updates, more tweaks, and a bit more open discussion feel from the developers. Be grateful for the change for it lets the game evolve for the better.

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Originally Posted by Eyeballed

Yes, they are, in fact. If you want proof, just go ahead and do a /sea all XX-XX inv and send tells to everyone in that list and count the number of "lol" and "No thanks." you get in reply for a classic party.

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This looks exactly like how the old way worked for jobs that weren't in the "in crowd." Or if the two level spread around your level consisted of thf thf thf thf drk drk drg drg bst bst bst. Remember, level syncing is not classic partying. The people who you asked would then join another party with the popular jobs, and you'd have to solo for 12-50 per kill without signet defense and evasion bonuses, FoV/GoV xp boosts, xp rings, or mog tablet bonuses.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

If by "WoW clone" you mean "successful game with a fuckload of subscribers", then sure. I don't see the point of any part of your post other than to cry about things you have limited knowledge about at best.

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Uh no, WoW clones are mediocre pieces of shit and everyone has proven this. "Truckloads of subscribers" doesn't mean "good game", because some of the most fun MMOs out there have low subscriber counts.

FFXI is one of the most successful MMOs out there, but most kids these days only think Sub Number = Success, which means Mcdonalds is the most successful and best Burger Place to exist using that logic.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

Uh no, WoW clones are mediocre pieces of shit and everyone has proven this. "Truckloads of subscribers" doesn't mean "good game", because some of the most fun MMOs out there have low subscriber counts.

FFXI is one of the most successful MMOs out there, but most kids these days only think Sub Number = Success, which means Mcdonalds is the most successful and best Burger Place to exist using that logic.

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"Learn from WoW" does not equal "become WoW clone".

The 'old school' FFXI is dead and gone. The "new" FFXI is the future of the game, it's not going back. Please come to terms with this fact.

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Originally Posted by Trisscar

"Learn from WoW" does not equal "become WoW clone".

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However, "learn from WoW" usually mean "Turn into a WoW clone that everyone will realize and promptly leave your shit because it didn't do WoW as good as WoW did."

There is a difference between "Learning from" and "copying"..how many MMOs that "learned from WoW" didn't flatout copy it? WoW in itself is a copy of older MMOs, however it's the most popular MMO due to advertising so of course MMO devs will go out their way to try to copy it's success.

We've seen it with almost all new MMOs that came out the past half decade.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

However, "learn from WoW" usually mean "Turn into a WoW clone that everyone will realize and promptly leave your shit because it didn't do WoW as good as WoW did."

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No, that's not what it means.

You're being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

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Originally Posted by Twille

The 'old school' FFXI is dead and gone. The "new" FFXI is the future of the game, it's not going back. Please come to terms with this fact.

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I think it would be easier to accept if we had some alternative that is much more XI circa 2005 than WoW. It's like getting a basketball for your birthday because your parents know you like basketball because you play it so often, but one day you come home and the basketball's gone and been replaced with a cricket bat. You're left standing there, hands out, mouth agape, with this stunned look on your face. Cricket: The new Basketball.

Interesting how everything else that was commented on... was ignored. cc;

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Originally Posted by cidbahamut

No, that's not what it means.

You're being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

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Nah, most people who play more than one MMO has seen it happen.

Ok I totally understand both sides of this argument, I loved old School FFXI (When I could get a Party on other than WHM , PLD, NIN or any major league DD job (at the time that didn't include DRG), but I do love FoV, GoV and Abyssea leveling.

See the major problem with this game is us, the Players. If we had a real community in the game, we'd help out when someone shouts for the last Wings of the Goddess mission they've been on since forever, but no one can be bothered to take 15 min of their time to help someone finish it, even though it can be duo'd by a 99 BST and a SMN fairly easily. I'm glad that there are still players who recognize people doing the same Magian trial they are on and will invite you to their party to make it go quicker for everyone.