regardinf TH - unbalanced pet jobs

Since one of the last updates BST got take away TH3 for 2 of it's pets.
But considering that those pets still got TH1 and are the one of the better tanking pets BST still got an unfair advantage over other pet jobs who have to sacrifice abilities for TH.

So SE - there are 2 options

#1 no TH for any pet job
#2 a basic TH for every pet job

It's up to you but I think #1 is the better option

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

Wow, this is just childish.

They already decided, tier I with gear to go up to tier 3 or higher, deal with it!

Honestly, do we really need to make BST any less wanted than it already is?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Honestly, do we really need to make BST any less wanted than it already is?

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They don't want BST to exist, they never got parties at 75, they don't get parties now, but hell, to some people they shouldn't be able to solo so..... yeah!!

First off, Thief and Ranger can induce Treasure Hunter? Do people consider this unfair to everyone else? Why are pet jobs any more special?

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

#2 a basic TH for every pet job

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http://i.imgur.com/JvEnO.png

I have a feeling Dragoons everywhere will go along just fine without being on this particular piece of gear, and they can wait for some sort of all jobs gear in the future, if there ever is any.

Pet jobs aren't magically special compared to everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Economizer

First off, Thief and Ranger can induce Treasure Hunter? Do people consider this unfair to everyone else? Why are pet jobs any more special?



http://i.imgur.com/JvEnO.png

I have a feeling Dragoons everywhere will go along just fine without being on this particular piece of gear, and they can wait for some sort of all jobs gear in the future, if there ever is any.

Pet jobs aren't magically special compared to everyone else.

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I know right!

Ultimately OP wants it on PUP, so if they don't want gear for themselves SE might give them it, in the form of a Frame/Head that'll never be used, also they said Pet: TH gear was coming, no way it'll be just BST. Most likely like the Haste Belt: PUP SMN DRG BST

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

I know right!

Ultimately OP wants it on PUP, so if they don't want gear for themselves SE might give them it, in the form of a Frame/Head that'll never be used, also they said Pet: TH gear was coming, no way it'll be just BST. Most likely like the Haste Belt: PUP SMN DRG BST

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Frame/heads are VERY expensive to add to the game due to the frame x head combinations. Attachments on the other hand are not.

So BST has it on specific pets, while PUP likely gets an attachment and SMN probably as a trait on a summon like Cait Sith. (Assuming it's on par with Carbuncle rather then a 2hr summon.) DRG might get it as a gear option boosting the pet with the trait.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

Frame/heads are VERY expensive to add to the game due to the frame x head combinations. Attachments on the other hand are not.

So BST has it on specific pets, while PUP likely gets an attachment and SMN probably as a trait on a summon like Cait Sith. (Assuming it's on par with Carbuncle rather then a 2hr summon.) DRG might get it as a gear option boosting the pet with the trait.

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Perhaps, difference being the two pets are actual THF's, and as I say I'm 99% sure SE will just add the gear for all jobs rather than just BST so it'll be obtainable for all pets.

It's just silly to ask for all pet jobs the gain the benefit of another pet job just because... If we we're going like that I'd want the same abilities of other pet jobs for BST, such as zoning and only attacking one enemy I tell it too.

As for Cait Sith, didn't they already say it was like Carbuncle with Atomos being a 2-hour?

The point is... every other Job besides THF or RNG has to sub THF for TH or equip items that garant TH while to get back to the topic.
#1 BST got a bunch of abilities that let the pet tank while he can just sit back and watch.
#2 Those pets are nearly immortal
#3 BST doesn't have to sacrifice anything for TH cause his tanking pet has a natural TH

And #1 - #3 is an unfair advantage over every other petjob and other non petjob.

PS: I play PUP, DRG, SMN, BSR, WAR, THF and DNC and it's obvious that BST is atm the best choice (not to say an exploit) for tanking and geting better drops due TH.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

The point is... every other Job besides THF or RNG has to sub THF for TH or equip items that garant TH while to get back to the topic.
#1 BST got a bunch of abilities that let the pet tank while he can just sit back and watch.
#2 Those pets are nearly immortal
#3 BST doesn't have to sacrifice anything for TH cause his tanking pet has a natural TH

And #1 - #3 is an unfair advantage over every other petjob and other non petjob.

PS: I play PUP, DRG, SMN, BSR, WAR, THF and DNC and it's obvious that BST is atm the best choice (not to say an exploit) for tanking and geting better drops due TH.

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Come update BST will only get tier I, the same tier available on an item you get from a chest in Abyssea which you have on for one hit and remove god forbid, if you class that as such a bad thing does that mean you don't gear swap for WS' it's no different.

The point being SE finally did something right in giving BST's THF pets TH as it should have been, people complained "Wah! BST's in Dynamis are killing things too quickly in the lvl.75 Dynamis NERF NERF NERF" to which they went and did.

If DRG, PUP, SMN, WAR or DNC was a THF then I could understand where you're coming from, as it stands You have not a leg to stand on, basically you're argument is: BST got THF pets with TH, I want it for all my other jobs too, it's not fair! I don't care if none of these jobs are THF it's not fair, it's not fair.

Each job has different benefits, as an Example PUP, DRG and SMN has things BST should get. Will SE give it to them? No, of course they wont under the guise of lolBalance.

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PS: I play PUP, DRG, SMN, BSR, WAR, THF and DNC and it's obvious that BST is atm the best choice (not to say an exploit) for tanking and geting better drops due TH.

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Or anybody can just invite a THF or RNG and get better drops than the BST.

It's fine the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Or anybody can just invite a THF or RNG and get better drops than the BST.

It's fine the way it is.

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That would be an option but that would need SE to change it's crap policy.
Sorry to say it again. A BST is the BEST tank in Dynamis (and a bunch of other events) while having it's own THF.
If a BST dies in Dynamis - he was just to greedy or stupid.
Sorry to say it but as BST I've only to spend a few k to get what other people have to teamup for.

So the only solution is to take away this advantage cause there is no need for it except SE wants us to play BST.
But therefore I don't see a reason? This job was fine right before it got the THF pet and now after they lowered it it's still uber.

Oh I forgot... we'r playing a massive soloplayer online jrpg

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

(and a bunch of other events)

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Care to elaborate on this? Yes, BST is great at dynamis, this is an exception created by a perfect alignment of stars and planets. But, to say BST is good at Abyssea/Nyzul/Limbus/Salvage/Assault without considering SMN, MNK, THF, DNC all also excel at these would be a mistake. BST is good VS weak mobs TW/EP/DC after that its far too expensive to maintain healing for minimal increase in use. (This assuming Jugs not Charm) Now, If BST is considered to excel at Voidwatch/WoE/Neo-Nyzul I recommend re-examining how they function in such an environment.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

That would be an option but that would need SE to change it's crap policy.
Sorry to say it again. A BST is the BEST tank in Dynamis (and a bunch of other events) while having it's own THF.
If a BST dies in Dynamis - he was just to greedy or stupid.
Sorry to say it but as BST I've only to spend a few k to get what other people have to teamup for.

So the only solution is to take away this advantage cause there is no need for it except SE wants us to play BST.
But therefore I don't see a reason? This job was fine right before it got the THF pet and now after they lowered it it's still uber.

Oh I forgot... we'r playing a massive soloplayer online jrpg

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Here is a tip for you buddy- If you want people to take you seriously, TYPE LIKE A HUMAN BEING

Nearly every point you have made is either out of context or blatently wrong. Besides Dynamis (not even really content anyway...) name one event BST is the best job at?

Ya know what, I'm done.....after really thinking about how I could respond to you, Ive decided you are beyond helping.

1) No one agrees with what you are saying
2) No one will ever agree with what you are saying
3) Stop posting

BST is only great in its pet tanking against its owner. For anyone else, the pet cant generate enough hate. BST only works as a tank when you're around nothing but BSTs and SMNs. Stop trying to make it sound like BST is better than a PLD MNK or NIN for tanking anything.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

That would be an option but that would need SE to change it's crap policy.
Sorry to say it again. A BST is the BEST tank in Dynamis (and a bunch of other events) while having it's own THF.
If a BST dies in Dynamis - he was just to greedy or stupid.
Sorry to say it but as BST I've only to spend a few k to get what other people have to teamup for.

So the only solution is to take away this advantage cause there is no need for it except SE wants us to play BST.
But therefore I don't see a reason? This job was fine right before it got the THF pet and now after they lowered it it's still uber.

Oh I forgot... we'r playing a massive soloplayer online jrpg

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Sorry to say: You're talking out of your backside.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

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That and it causes the developers to center design around TH instead of making the job functional and TH a mere tertiary bonus.

Ideally, up drop rates across the board, nerf or get rid of TH, fix THF.

I pretty much am in a RL forced break from FFXI. And as such i've tried to refrain from commenting on a game that i'm currently not playing, but for crying out loud ...

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

Since one of the last updates BST got take away TH3 for 2 of it's pets.
But considering that those pets still got TH1 and are the one of the better tanking pets BST still got an unfair advantage over other pet jobs who have to sacrifice abilities for TH.

So SE - there are 2 options

#1 no TH for any pet job
#2 a basic TH for every pet job

It's up to you but I think #1 is the better option

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One of the things i've gotten so sick of over the years are ppl like you OP that make ridiculous demands of SE for no other reason than a severe case of the ol' 'green-eyed monster'.

I'm not a BST in any way shape or form and even i have been taken aback by how little of a notion SE has for that job. Its always been 2 steps forward and 5 steps back and to the side. SE is doing quite a good job of gutting that job without your jealousy-driven 2 cents.

Now as its obvious you are one of those delusional new breed PUP that i was seeing more and more of recently, i will not belabor the issue-i'll just say if you want TH to be a natural part of your job w/o having to rely on /sub or gear, swap to THF, RNG, or BST for goodness' sake and call it a day.

....or if you are actually wanting to broaden PUP's horizons, why not ask SE instead for a revamp on how many of the hard to get attachments are obtained? Because personally, i think that is a much more pressing issues for PUP atm. SE earned much goodwill from me with the recent AI fixes, but they still need to address the fact that some attachments just are not within the grasp of every PUP out there who wants them.

Just another dumb noob that wants more for his job.

Drg and pup are the only pet jobs with out access to it yes, but why do pet jobs have to have it? Why not add it to other jobs? What makes it so special? You have thf job pets with it because its a job based game and that's the pets job...

One could argue that a pet should have higher th trait because much like in real life search dogs and cats are used for their highten sensesand their ability to find what humans otherwise have no way of finding. Now using this more "logical logic" beastmaster pets should have the highest TH trait more so then thf...

But this is a game and as such the cry babys have to have their way and feel special and unique.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

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Take away TH and THF would iterally be useless. Less solo ability than DNC, less DD capability than any other DD. The only thing it would bring to the table is an enmity control function that hasn't been relevant to the game since 2005. Might as well just delete it from the game.

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Originally Posted by Atomic_Skull

Take away TH and THF would iterally be useless. Less solo ability than DNC, less DD capability than any other DD. The only thing it would bring to the table is an enmity control function that hasn't been relevant to the game since 2005. Might as well just delete it from the game.

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Why delete it? Why not just fix the job to be actually worthwhile without TH?

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

The point is... every other Job besides THF or RNG has to sub THF for TH or equip items that garant TH while to get back to the topic.
#1 BST got a bunch of abilities that let the pet tank while he can just sit back and watch.
#2 Those pets are nearly immortal
#3 BST doesn't have to sacrifice anything for TH cause his tanking pet has a natural TH

And #1 - #3 is an unfair advantage over every other petjob and other non petjob.

PS: I play PUP, DRG, SMN, BSR, WAR, THF and DNC and it's obvious that BST is atm the best choice (not to say an exploit) for tanking and geting better drops due TH.

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I cry horse shit on this, like many others here. I have every job with TH at 99 now (not unlike alot of other players). Do I want TH on my Auto? No, unless they add a thf frame. My pup does not need TH, I don't want to have to gear it for TH, Pup has the best assortment of ways to play of all my pets as it can handle both physical and magic damage, and deal both as well, i choose the auto based on what I'm after, and if I want to farm I go pup/thf with either the rdm or whm autos, or any other frame if I bring the NPC out. Let me make this perfectly clear I DO NOT WANT TH ON MY AUTO.

#1 smn just stands back and watches their pet, issuing the occasional command (and smn, I know this isn't accurate, but i'm responding to the quote here), should we nerf them too? oh, I usually melee with my pet too, unless I'm doing NMs in Aby, too boring otherwise.
#2 yes, pets are nearly immortal, if the bst has gearred for it... which puts them on par with every other job in the game as dumbed down as it is now.
#3 You might use Hippo and Ladybug for tanking, I don't. They are my TH and farming pets, if I'm aiming specifically at tanking on bst I'm using something else, like sheep or turtle or whatever is strong vs. the specific prey i'm after (remember the bst progression chart? stuff still works).

In point of fact, my current favorite solo job is pup, since the pupdate it has more all-around functionality/utility than my bst, and it makes me use my head a bit more, making play a bit more engaging. I've always chosen my beast pets with alot of care, instead of just defaulting to 1, I use the 2 thief pets to farm, and against anything that is light or wind spam happy respectively, otherwise I find the other jugs to be better outside those circumstances. If I default to any jug it's our current Mandy... because he's dirt cheap. I DO support keeping TH on my jug pets, when I want to farm on beast I like having it.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Why delete it? Why not just fix the job to be actually worthwhile without TH?

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^ This. Why not get rid of TH and make thf a decent DD like almost every single other mmo in the universe that has a thf or rogue type job.

I had a realization the other night, SE puts entirely too much effort into trying to make each job as unique as possible. I actually many of the problems in the game on this. If you look at other MMO's out there, DD means DD. In FFXI DD means sam. Or war. Or mnk. Or whatever the flavor of the month happens to be. I feel like SE needs to spend a little less time worrying about preserving the uniqueness of each job and worry more about closing the gap and creating a little equality. That whole balance farce they keep yammering on about.

OP obviously has no idea how BST works.... or how Treasure Hunter works ............ or how the game is played >.>

It's interesting how a legitimate statement on how broken BST and it's pets (wow - pets have jobs, I'll tell my hampster to earn more money ;p ) in compared with other jobs are.

As I mentioned before I do play PUP, DRG, BST, THF, DNC ans WAR and I do understand the concept of every job named before. And that's the point in case of TH and tanking BST is the best job. Even DNC/THF or what ever combo you want to use will loose caues you'r out of options.

#1 In case you want to tank, you won't deal damage so the fight will last forever
#2 If you want to deal damage, you can't tank or you have to fall back to a party situation where someone is there to heal you.
#3 Let's talk about hate control - BST can tranfer a bunch of his hate toward the pet (not vise versa) so the pet can get hate even if it doesn't do anything while it's masters hate level will be nearly 0.
#3.1 SMN and DRG are not that blessed cause their pet's have to deal damage to generate hate for themself
#3.2 PUP can switch hate between master and automaton but it's a double edged sword
#3.3 Crowd control - Every pet job has it's own abilities but let's check the popular options
- Shiva / Sheep ~ Sleepga
- Automaton / a bunch of pets (including THF-pets) got abilities that will weaken the mob
- every pet (Lv.80-85+) will deal enough damage to be as good as a second player
- Pull strategies - too many mobs? Let your pet die!
-- a SMN can recast another avatar in a few seconds
-- a PUP can resummon it's automation (in a weakened state) within 60 seconds or (fully functional) every 20 minutes
-- a BST has to wait for max. 5:00 minutes to call another pet
-- a DRG has to wait for max. 20:00 minutes to call it's wyvern again
--- Healing your pet is across the board nearly the same with some exceptions
--- SMN can't cure it's pet as good as it would be needed so it's better to recast
--- DRG has to sacrifice it's own HP
--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP
--- BST can feed it's pet every 90 sec and heal it for (assuming your using the best food) 1.600+ HP + regen effect or let it stay so it will get a natural regen

I know there are still some points left but since some people just want to shitwar they should bring facts and not opinions.

So my opionion is that SE should take away TH for every pet.

lol, you're very funny! Bravo!

Or at least I hope you are,otherwise: Oh dear!

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

It's interesting how a legitimate statement on how broken BST and it's pets (wow - pets have jobs, I'll tell my hampster to earn more money ;p ) in compared with other jobs are.

As I mentioned before I do play PUP, DRG, BST, THF, DNC ans WAR and I do understand the concept of every job named before. And that's the point in case of TH and tanking BST is the best job. Even DNC/THF or what ever combo you want to use will loose caues you'r out of options.

#1 In case you want to tank, you won't deal damage so the fight will last forever
#2 If you want to deal damage, you can't tank or you have to fall back to a party situation where someone is there to heal you.
#3 Let's talk about hate control - BST can tranfer a bunch of his hate toward the pet (not vise versa) so the pet can get hate even if it doesn't do anything while it's masters hate level will be nearly 0.
#3.1 SMN and DRG are not that blessed cause their pet's have to deal damage to generate hate for themself
#3.2 PUP can switch hate between master and automaton but it's a double edged sword
#3.3 Crowd control - Every pet job has it's own abilities but let's check the popular options
- Shiva / Sheep ~ Sleepga
- Automaton / a bunch of pets (including THF-pets) got abilities that will weaken the mob
- every pet (Lv.80-85+) will deal enough damage to be as good as a second player
- Pull strategies - too many mobs? Let your pet die!
-- a SMN can recast another avatar in a few seconds
-- a PUP can resummon it's automation (in a weakened state) within 60 seconds or (fully functional) every 20 minutes
-- a BST has to wait for max. 5:00 minutes to call another pet
-- a DRG has to wait for max. 20:00 minutes to call it's wyvern again
--- Healing your pet is across the board nearly the same with some exceptions
--- SMN can't cure it's pet as good as it would be needed so it's better to recast
--- DRG has to sacrifice it's own HP
--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP
--- BST can feed it's pet every 90 sec and heal it for (assuming your using the best food) 1.600+ HP + regen effect or let it stay so it will get a natural regen

I know there are still some points left but since some people just want to shitwar they should bring facts and not opinions.

So my opionion is that SE should take away TH for every pet.

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I'm not seeing you illustrating many/if any imbalances favoring BST there. TH1 on a pet doesn't hurt anyone else, and very few people like/want to have a BST around, even compared to PUP (This is commonly based on some misconceptions and old stigma towards BST, but it's relevant). There's no need to remove TH, it will just make BST less wanted than it already is outside of soloing.

PUP's hate switch is far supeiror to BST's hate transfer. It can have the same effects as snarl (build up hate then give it to pet), or it can also be used to save your pet if you want to keep it alive.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

--- PUP depending on you automations equipment can heal it's self like a WHM, regenerate HP (maneuver), repair every 3:00 minutes for 10-30% + regen or by swaping the masters and automations HP

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Automaton Oil +3 gives 40%+40*40 I believe. Not sure if Guignol Earring makes that 48%+48*40, but if it does, it's icing on the cake.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

PUP's hate switch is far superior to snarl. It can have the same effects as snarl (build up hate then give it to pet), or it can also be used to save your pet if you want to keep it alive.

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It can also be used to get rid of unwanted agro/link, provided the mob agrod the master. Its hatelessness makes it useless for dyna JA proc though.

The unbalance is that if my pet gains hate i cant make the mob go to me like PUP. I can only watch it die or spend money to keep it alive. if i had the hate swap pup has i could save a fortune on pet food and jugs alone....

This person is on a hate BST bandwagon necause i didnt see anything in that text wall that was unfair or unbalanced wich makes me think the poster doesnt even know what hes talking about..

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Originally Posted by Rohelius

This person is on a hate BST bandwagon necause i didnt see anything in that text wall that was unfair or unbalanced wich makes me think the poster doesnt even know what hes talking about..

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The point is you'r obvously not reading or understanding what I'm saying.

Point is you'r focus is right now on PUP vs. BST.
And I also showed that there are a bunch of other pet jobs who are in the same wagon as PUP and do have less options.
In case you want to compare by gil. And I don't count any equipment that will increase the effect - so only basic stats.

Let's check:
Automation Oil +2 will be sold by NPC for 6k a stack and will heal your Automaton for 30% of its maximum hit points, plus 900 HP over 90 seconds at the rate of 30 HP per tick.
A similar pet food will be Pet Food Zeta Biscuit for 18k at each AH on Odin.
Repair/Heal wise PUP wins.

What about your pet.
I've allready spend a few millions to get an automation that could be called decend.
A BST get's a Pet for free up to a few hundred gil. But let's check what Dippy will cost you - atm 89k a stack.
For 89k an automation won't last longer than an eyeblink and you'll still using your initial automation. ><;
So let's calculate a cheap 2 million gil automation vs. Dippy - So you have buy 23 stacks (or 270 Dippy) before it will ruin your pocket.

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

So the truth is - your pet is the tank and the TH machine (that will increase the TH-level chancewise with every succsessfull hit) while you'r the one who's procing and healing your tank.
You'r pet doesn't support you - you support your pet.

But what about the other pet jobs?
I've seen a few DRG doing dynamis but most of the time they where resting.
SMN? I've duoed with a friend of mine and it's no fun at all cause you've to deal with MP consumption vs. pet health vs. hate level vs. your own HP.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

The point is you'r obvously not reading or understanding what I'm saying.

Point is you'r focus is right now on PUP vs. BST.
And I also showed that there are a bunch of other pet jobs who are in the same wagon as PUP and do have less options.
In case you want to compare by gil. And I don't count any equipment that will increase the effect - so only basic stats.

Let's check:
Automation Oil +2 will be sold by NPC for 6k a stack and will heal your Automaton for 30% of its maximum hit points, plus 900 HP over 90 seconds at the rate of 30 HP per tick.
A similar pet food will be Pet Food Zeta Biscuit for 18k at each AH on Odin.
Repair/Heal wise PUP wins.

What about your pet.
I've allready spend a few millions to get an automation that could be called decend.
A BST get's a Pet for free up to a few hundred gil. But let's check what Dippy will cost you - atm 89k a stack.
For 89k an automation won't last longer than an eyeblink and you'll still using your initial automation. ><;
So let's calculate a cheap 2 million gil automation vs. Dippy - So you have buy 23 stacks (or 270 Dippy) before it will ruin your pocket.

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

So the truth is - your pet is the tank and the TH machine (that will increase the TH-level chancewise with every succsessfull hit) while you'r the one who's procing and healing your tank.
You'r pet doesn't support you - you support your pet.

But what about the other pet jobs?
I've seen a few DRG doing dynamis but most of the time they where resting.
SMN? I've duoed with a friend of mine and it's no fun at all cause you've to deal with MP consumption vs. pet health vs. hate level vs. your own HP.

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um... pup absolutely rocks in dynamis, use a mage pup and go pup/dnc yourself, you hit all 3 procs on the majority of kills. I'm not even particularily well gearred on my pup and I'm good for 100 coins per run on average, and I don't even try that hard.

The real screw-up in that equation is that a thf with base TH7 either /dnc or /nin isn't going to outdo my pup (with base TH 0) in terms of coin drops, and with base TH that much higher they really should, if TH counts at all. THAT is what SE needs to look at.

I've even tried going rng/nin to have a 3 proc job with TH3, using an x-bow and a truckload of bloody bolts to stay in it. Too much downtime, but even just counting actual engaged time I didn't approach my pup (27 coins for the entire run, figured on 45 minutes of down-time, 18 minutes getting the TEs are included in the downtime number). Although I must admit, my ranger is in serious need of a skill-up party and some improved gear, still, I doubt that even if my gear was the "OMGUberness" and skill was capped that it would approach my pup.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

Let's check what you gain within Dynamis (other topics obviously are no interest by mayority).
With BST I'll get at least 180-200 coins per run.
With PUP (no TH) it will be 50-100 depending on mob with no chance of dual tanking.
Let's theoreticaly sell every coin for 5k it would be 900k-1M vs 250k-500k.
Plus as a BST you won't have used more than 2 pets and a stack of pet food - so you spend 31k a run to get at least 900k.
And now the shocking truth - with a different pet (Gooey Gerard) I'll get 100-150 coins per run. And I'll only spend 20k per run.

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I don't understand your problem then. if you have bst leveled, and you get more coins as bst, then why don't you just enjoy it rather than complaining about it?

I might also add that you're talking as if bst is just super overpowered vs all these other jobs while only focusing on a single small aspect of the game, which is old content. Sure, bst can outperform a smn, pup or drg in dynamis but let's look at other, parts of the game. Specifically current content. Tell me how often you see bst in VW? Never is the answer. Dragoons and smns are more than welcome in just about any endgame content. Bst is not. It is in fact completely useless in VW. Even the infamous "lolpup" is more welcome in endgame than bst is.

And you wanna talk about overpowered, how about a pet that can use top tier white and black magic that by rights should be exclusive to black mage and white mage, and they can do this with NO ENMITY and for that matter, almost no downside at all. And shall we compare maneuvers to Ready? Pet attacks with relatively low recast timers vs pet attacks, many of which are useless which require not only 100% tp on the pet, but also have a recast of 1-3 minutes depending on the move.

I'm sorry, everything you've said in this entire thread has been 1 sided and filtered so that you only look at a single aspect of the game and everybody seems to know it but you. No, no I think I'm actually mistaken. I'm sure you do know and just don't care. Every job has it's specialties. Soloing is bst's specialty. SE made it that way and both SE and the players have done everything they can to make sure bst stays a solo onry job. Deal with it.

Eitherway it's a moot point when you can get a Sash for PUP with TH+1 the same as what BST will have.

OP is acting as if gear swapping is hard to do...

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Originally Posted by Calamity

And you wanna talk about overpowered, how about a pet that can use top tier white and black magic that by rights should be exclusive to black mage and white mage, and they can do this with NO ENMITY and for that matter, almost no downside at all. And shall we compare maneuvers to Ready? Pet attacks with relatively low recast timers vs pet attacks, many of which are useless which require not only 100% tp on the pet, but also have a recast of 1-3 minutes depending on the move.

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That magic is still exclusive to WHM and BLM. Soulsoother is a pocket WHM that can cast up to Cure VI but no Cura, Curaga, Banish, Holy, etc, Spiritreaver is a pocket BLM that can cast up to tier V, but no -aga, -aja, AM, AMII, Comet, Meteor, etc. And no choice in the casting either.. at best you can hint it, but no hint will prevent casting a tier V nuke where a BLM would use a different element or not cast at all.
Comparing Maneuvers to Ready is silly. Maneuvers are not attacks at all, they are hints for the automaton to do something sometime whenever it pleases. And don't forget using 3 maneuvers a minute incurs a -10% attack speed effect, and you risk overload if you don't manage it properly.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Hatcher

Eitherway it's a moot point when you can get a Sash for PUP with TH+1 the same as what BST will have.

OP is acting as if gear swapping is hard to do...

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That's where you'r jumping on conclusions. Since I figured out that the TH of a pet is infact superior to no TH or to just switch it in for one hit while a party with a real THF will still perform better.

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Originally Posted by Ihnako

That's where you'r jumping on conclusions. Since I figured out that the TH of a pet is infact superior to no TH or to just switch it in for one hit while a party with a real THF will still perform better.

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What!?

Lord have mercy... Your main job is PUP the reality is you want TH on PUP you could care less about other jobs, you're using BST as a reasoning why PUP should have it. You're wrong, if you want TH get the sash and voila, done.

Now stop beating the horse, it's already dead.

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Originally Posted by Kristal

That magic is still exclusive to WHM and BLM. Soulsoother is a pocket WHM that can cast up to Cure VI but no Cura, Curaga, Banish, Holy, etc, Spiritreaver is a pocket BLM that can cast up to tier V, but no -aga, -aja, AM, AMII, Comet, Meteor, etc. And no choice in the casting either.. at best you can hint it, but no hint will prevent casting a tier V nuke where a BLM would use a different element or not cast at all.
Comparing Maneuvers to Ready is silly. Maneuvers are not attacks at all, they are hints for the automaton to do something sometime whenever it pleases. And don't forget using 3 maneuvers a minute incurs a -10% attack speed effect, and you risk overload if you don't manage it properly.

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But it does sound like a very convincing argument doesn't it? Just making a point. Anybody can omit certain facts to make their argument sound more just, but it's no less untrue. To be honest I was kinda hoping Ihnako would tackle that one himself but that's quite alright. The point is made.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

TH is a horrible concept anyway they should just get rid of it all together. Needing to bring a certain job to increase drop rate just ends up being a pain.

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LIKE needing to bring a BLM for every single seal/coin/stone/jewel/card farm in Abyssea?

That's a terrible idea.

BTW, bluemage also can get th 1 from spell traits, and equip the th+1 belt. so they can th2 w/out /thf