Abyssea Adjustments

I recently started to work on making an Almace, and couldn't help but feel abyssea was just as frustrating as it always was (minus the endless competition for everything). Going through this process brings me back and reminds me why I never made an Empyrean before. Don't get me wrong, not having to fight over pops makes it easier than it used to be. However, I still believe a few things could be done to make this more tolerable and less agonizing.

1) Allow us to stagger monsters even when they are performing actions.
2) Allow all pop KI's to be obtainable via gold chests.
3) Introduce a way to obtain HMP in abyssea. Straight up buying them with cruor may not be the greatest idea. Probably have a single HMP drop off any force popped boss, and maybe a chance to obtain a pouch from zone bosses.

These next ones would have a bigger impact than the previous suggestions.

4) Allow us to buy pop items from curio moogles. This could be a huge time saver and probably an even bigger gil sink, but would boost acquisition speed and would reduce the tedious pop farming process.
5) Add new drops from Shinryu (riftcinder?) or maybe even make a new High-Tier Battlefield Shinryu where riftcinder and HMP could be obtained as a spoil.
6) Getting out of abyssea now, make new SKCNM's that are high level versions of old KCNM and HKCNM fights. Again with the riftcinder and HMP. This would give people something to use their crests on who don't need Rem chapters anymore.

I'd vote "no" to these changes.

Adding HMP/cinders etc. to Aby NMs would result in those NMs being locked down by gil-farmers, making it almost impossible for a person to build an Aby-stage Empy. I think adding those items to other battlefields HKCNM etc is a good idea, although I doubt SE would do that, since they just added those items to Ambuscade and had previously "no plans to add those items outside VW."

SE already made Aby-farming easier, when they added trigger KI to gold boxes. In the beginning this did not exist. Also they added Trusts to Aby recently. Also they removed the big KO moves from Glavoid etc. Also since ilvl gear arrived, mobs in Aby can't really hurt you, and you can solo-farm mobs and NMs very quickly and easily. Also it seems that in 2016 proc KIs are more likely to just drop anyway without a proc, than they were in the start of Aby. Also they made it so you can buy weapon skill-ups using Sparks Books, so you can cap all your proc weapons very easily now, compared to 2010.

I farmed five Empys past Aby stage for myself, and helped LS member farm another 30 or so Empys past Aby stage. I did those Empys from 2010-today, and noticed how very very easy it is to farm Aby-stage Empys today, compared with 2010-2012.

My main is WAR, and I could solo 50/50, 50/50, 75/75 in under a month, on WAR/THF, before Trusts were allowed in Aby or even existed. It is really not hard work.

Basically, levelling a proc job such as WAR, and capping a variety of weapons, is part of Aby. Aby and VW are also the only places where WAR is still considered useful.

Should they remove the "tedious" Relic Weapon stages where you have to kill mobs with WS too? It is a slippery slope, when you start changing the fundamental existing systems for RME. Where to stop the easyfication? Most of the recent changes to RME have been related to removing time-gates on entrances for RM, and making the content easier to get access to, for example free cruor/stones/atmas and Trusts for new players in Aby. Changing the actual nature of the boss farming would be a new step really. I think the game is losing a lot of the skill-element, removing the need for Empy procs would be another step in this direction.

Levelling multiple "toolkit" jobs, and capping all the weapons, is part of what made FFXI awesome. Using those WS at the right times, getting a proc, is a fun mini-game. Completing your Empy <This way.> is a sense of achievement, you accepted the Aby proc system mini-game, you tooled up correctly, and you beat the game system. Equals feeling happy about beating the game by the existing rules.
:cool:

You need to keep in mind it's still a game, they have to make it a little rough. Otherwise it will just turn into press button to receive bacon.

Abyssea is pretty easy these days. KI's will drop eventually, even if you don't proc. Trusts make it pretty much a cakewalk for the most part. Like a few above they have to make the best weapons in the game a challenge to get and seem like a major accomplishment, or you'll bleed subs big time.

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Originally Posted by Teraniku

Abyssea is pretty easy these days. KI's will drop eventually, even if you don't proc. Trusts make it pretty much a cakewalk for the most part. Like a few above they have to make the best weapons in the game a challenge to get and seem like a major accomplishment, or you'll bleed subs big time.

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Not to sound like a cynic, but the game has been losing subscriptions for years now. At this point, I think making these so called Ultimate weapons easier to obtain might actually make people want to keep playing vs quitting. I actually had a friend quit because he didn't care to spend another 100 million gil to finish his relic. I think the excessive, tedious, obnoxious aspects of the game's content is what drove so many players away in the first place. Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Stompa

I'd vote "no" to these changes.

Adding HMP/cinders etc. to Aby NMs would result in those NMs being locked down by gil-farmers, making it almost impossible for a person to build an Aby-stage Empy. I think adding those items to other battlefields HKCNM etc is a good idea, although I doubt SE would do that, since they just added those items to Ambuscade and had previously "no plans to add those items outside VW."

SE already made Aby-farming easier, when they added trigger KI to gold boxes. In the beginning this did not exist. Also they added Trusts to Aby recently. Also they removed the big KO moves from Glavoid etc. Also since ilvl gear arrived, mobs in Aby can't really hurt you, and you can solo-farm mobs and NMs very quickly and easily. Also it seems that in 2016 proc KIs are more likely to just drop anyway without a proc, than they were in the start of Aby. Also they made it so you can buy weapon skill-ups using Sparks Books, so you can cap all your proc weapons very easily now, compared to 2010.

I farmed five Empys past Aby stage for myself, and helped LS member farm another 30 or so Empys past Aby stage. I did those Empys from 2010-today, and noticed how very very easy it is to farm Aby-stage Empys today, compared with 2010-2012.

My main is WAR, and I could solo 50/50, 50/50, 75/75 in under a month, on WAR/THF, before Trusts were allowed in Aby or even existed. It is really not hard work.

Basically, levelling a proc job such as WAR, and capping a variety of weapons, is part of Aby. Aby and VW are also the only places where WAR is still considered useful.

Should they remove the "tedious" Relic Weapon stages where you have to kill mobs with WS too? It is a slippery slope, when you start changing the fundamental existing systems for RME. Where to stop the easyfication? Most of the recent changes to RME have been related to removing time-gates on entrances for RM, and making the content easier to get access to, for example free cruor/stones/atmas and Trusts for new players in Aby. Changing the actual nature of the boss farming would be a new step really. I think the game is losing a lot of the skill-element, removing the need for Empy procs would be another step in this direction.

Levelling multiple "toolkit" jobs, and capping all the weapons, is part of what made FFXI awesome. Using those WS at the right times, getting a proc, is a fun mini-game. Completing your Empy <This way.> is a sense of achievement, you accepted the Aby proc system mini-game, you tooled up correctly, and you beat the game system. Equals feeling happy about beating the game by the existing rules.
:cool:

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I will respect and accept this opinion on all but two fronts. I have not found proc key items to have a higher drop rate than in years before. If anything they stayed the same. When I started doing Briareus I went BLU, because I thought AoE burning would be easier. Spoiler alert: it wasn't. After about 90 minutes of getting literally every KI except the ones I needed (this is after I spent the first hour or so building lights), went to kill NMs because I figured "how bad could it be?" Turns out very. After nearly 2 hours I finally managed to build a pop. I finally switched to NIN. Went much better, was able to build a pop within 30 minutes or so, unless my horrendous luck in abyssea acted up again (which it did once, got lightning elemental and no KI 3 NMs in a row). Now that might seem like the anecdote of a mad man, which it probably is, but this historically bad luck experience in Abyssea has propelled me to make this thread.

The second front I will disagree with is the last paragraph. This is where you and I differ greatly. I have never once enjoyed that aspect of abyssea, especially on things like ironclads. It was just another thing where my favorite job, DRG, was so trivial to bring. I don't want to go off topic too much, but abyssea was just another point of the game I was ambivalent about because I was stuck playing jobs I didn't care for (WAR). Like I said, this is just the difference between you and me. I originally went Blue Mage to burn because I thought it would be quicker that way, but mostly because I wanted to be on Blue Mage to get Almace FOR Blue Mage. Granted I still have the option to do things the hard way, but I'm just a tad too practical to intentionally waste my time for the sake of vanity.

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Originally Posted by cengeal

I will respect and accept this opinion on all but two fronts. I have not found proc key items to have a higher drop rate than in years before. If anything they stayed the same. When I started doing Briareus I went BLU, because I thought AoE burning would be easier. Spoiler alert: it wasn't. After about 90 minutes of getting literally every KI except the ones I needed (this is after I spent the first hour or so building lights), went to kill NMs because I figured "how bad could it be?" Turns out very. After nearly 2 hours I finally managed to build a pop. I finally switched to NIN. Went much better, was able to build a pop within 30 minutes or so, unless my horrendous luck in abyssea acted up again (which it did once, got lightning elemental and no KI 3 NMs in a row). Now that might seem like the anecdote of a mad man, which it probably is, but this historically bad luck experience in Abyssea has propelled me to make this thread.

The second front I will disagree with is the last paragraph. This is where you and I differ greatly. I have never once enjoyed that aspect of abyssea, especially on things like ironclads. It was just another thing where my favorite job, DRG, was so trivial to bring. I don't want to go off topic too much, but abyssea was just another point of the game I was ambivalent about because I was stuck playing jobs I didn't care for (WAR). Like I said, this is just the difference between you and me. I originally went Blue Mage to burn because I thought it would be quicker that way, but mostly because I wanted to be on Blue Mage to get Almace FOR Blue Mage. Granted I still have the option to do things the hard way, but I'm just a tad too practical to intentionally waste my time for the sake of vanity.

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Monk and Warrior, as proc jobs, they are like "lockpick tools" which you use to pick the Proc Lock on Abyssea bosses, when it is unlocked the treasure is available. But also, some people were forced to play Monk and Warrior, and forced to learn new weapons, and some of those people fell in love with Mnk or War, or learned how much they enjoy using certain weapon types.

My concern with the "buy KIs for gil" idea, is that it means the whole of Empy path becomes buyable with gil, after the easy pre-Aby stages. After that, you could just go to the Curio moogle, buy the boss KIs x 175 with gil, kill those 175 bosses in half a day, then buy HMP with gil, buy Rifts with gil. You could literally buy an Empy using gil, without having to actually go and do any adventuring, which I think would be tragical.

Also that would mean that some players would never even try the fun Abyssea mini-games of popset building, or proccing. They would just go to the Curio Moogle.

I actually wish more legendary weapons had ra-ex treasure that had to be farmed, couldn't be sold, and required skill minigames to obtain. There's too much "just throw gil at it" already, and too much brute force "blunt-instrument" gaming already, I like the fiddly skill stuff more, that's why I like procs.
:cool:

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Originally Posted by cengeal

Not to sound like a cynic, but the game has been losing subscriptions for years now. At this point, I think making these so called Ultimate weapons easier to obtain might actually make people want to keep playing vs quitting. I actually had a friend quit because he didn't care to spend another 100 million gil to finish his relic. I think the excessive, tedious, obnoxious aspects of the game's content is what drove so many players away in the first place. Just my opinion.

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Just to keep some reality, all mmorpg titles bleed subs. Square just hasted it by releasing a competing ff mmorpg title.

I'm not so sure Final Fantasy XIV is killing Final Fantasy XI as much as ye olde Final Fantasy XI killed Final Fantasy XI.

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Originally Posted by Knives

I'm not so sure Final Fantasy XIV is killing Final Fantasy XI as much as ye olde Final Fantasy XI killed Final Fantasy XI.

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I didn't say it was killing XI, I said releasing a competing title made the problem worse, it spread the players out across two titles.

If Square made FFXVI online it would hurt both of their other games and in the long run be a massive mistake, which is why they hopefully won't make this mistake again. There is a reason Blizzard canned wow 2.