Talented Transmission.

I did post a long essay here today, about how being known as a competent WHM or other job that is popular in heavy-CAP events, is actually a great liability and means that you will be playing that job in LS events / shout runs, and racking up loads of jobpoints on that job, and I offered a possible transfer system to compensate for this unbalance, allowing you to move jobpoints to one other job.

I think the jobpoints/gifts system is awesome, but at the same time the water has moulded itself to the shape of the vessel, and only a handful of jobs are called for in high-CAP events, which leaves less popular jobs grinding out CAP solo. I suggested a possible solution here today. But reading it and taking it in context, it would never happen. Sorry to have posted it.

I'll just bring my WHM lol.

Happy xmas. :)

I think this is a great idea.

Tis true that that anything with elemental magic skill is most wanted in CP parties, and one or two people to keep the mobs mostly off them.

3:1 is a perfect conversion rate. It's hard for a party to be SO GOOD that 3:1 just obliterates the idea of bringing a desirable job directly. IE, if I cap GEO, it'll be more desirable in JP parties than say thief. However, if I'm grinding on BLM, my new blm will likely earn more than 33% of the JP my GEO can earn, making passing points from GEO to BLM non-ideal.

Wait. Don't most people complain about it being harder to get JP on WHM... not easier?

This has been suggested before and rejected by the dev team as the whole concept of job points is about working hard *on that job* to demonstrate mastery on that job. Merit points on the other hand, are applied to many categories, several of which apply to all jobs, and thus it makes less sense for them to be earned on a particular job.

I don't think someone has the right to the "Master" title if they didn't do the work on that job.

Aside from all that, if you have friends playing, you can include basically any job in your party comp and still (at worst) do better than you would solo.

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This has been suggested before and rejected by the dev team as the whole concept of job points is about working hard *on that job* to demonstrate mastery on that job. Merit points on the other hand, are applied to many categories, several of which apply to all jobs, and thus it makes less sense for them to be earned on a particular job.

I don't think someone has the right to the "Master" title if they didn't do the work on that job.

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Skillchaining and magic bursting. Oh so difficult.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Skillchaining and magic bursting. Oh so difficult.

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You'd be suprised....

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Wait. Don't most people complain about it being harder to get JP on WHM... not easier?

This has been suggested before and rejected by the dev team as the whole concept of job points is about working hard *on that job* to demonstrate mastery on that job. Merit points on the other hand, are applied to many categories, several of which apply to all jobs, and thus it makes less sense for them to be earned on a particular job.

I don't think someone has the right to the "Master" title if they didn't do the work on that job.

Aside from all that, if you have friends playing, you can include basically any job in your party comp and still (at worst) do better than you would solo.

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I've been playing since early Aht Urghan, I have all the old gear that's relevant. I'm playing two jobs that I like that happen to be in high-demand (PLD and GEO) and playing another job honestly because it is OP (blu). I got as many invites as I wanted on PLD, and am getting them on GEO. On BLU, I have to form my own groups. Not because I'm an underperformer, but because people just don't immediately think to look for blu's, even though the ability to recover a skillchain is a very nice asset on top of them being one of the best melee DD's at the moment. Also, I can competently heal myself.

However, there are jobs that just don't perform that well or need a lot of gear to do so. Any group will carry an 850+ (900 being goal) skill GEO/WHM to victory 2100 times, but noone's going to carry a thief that has 1050 acc buffed. You really just can't, the whole group suffers tremendously.

On paper, I totally agreed with "You might be on [x] job to earn JP for that job.". It makes sense, 100%. In practice, great groups are one of two setups..

Melee/tank, melee, geo, nuker, nuker, nuker -- either the geo or an rdm or an sch will toss out heals as needed.

Melee/tank, SCH, SCH, geo, nuker, nuker.

Desirable jobs for the melee role are Ochain/Priwen PLD, RUN, DNC, BLU. The latter two because they make fine tanks, and can provide emergency support and save an SC gone bad.

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Originally Posted by Ketaru

Skillchaining and magic bursting. Oh so difficult.

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Regardless of Al's reply, this is true. my routine as a melee/tank in these groups is. WS, hit my flash subtarget macro, flash something else, because by the time flash goes off, my current target is dead.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You'd be suprised....

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Lol, I've been in those groups too.

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To paraphrase Herman Cain, The HP is too darn high!. Either something needs to be done about the potency of multi-step skillchains, or concessions have to be made because a lot of jobs/players (because of being new) aren't desired.

It's really kind of ironic. Back in the day of merit parties, suboptimal jobs could still contribute to a party, but you might as well earn them on the best jobs. Now with capacity point parties, there's only about 6 jobs that can contribute and the rest are literally worthless, but you can't just play on the best jobs to improve your struggling ones. Not that there's much reason to improve them anyway.

I understand your sentiment, Omnys, but in my view the problem is the job balance, not the job point system.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Wait. Don't most people complain about it being harder to get JP on WHM... not easier?

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You are correct, WHM is not really one of the premium jobs for CAP-burns, however it is the job that my friends ask me to bring to events that drop loot and CAP too. I am known as a party WHM since 2005~ish and people trust me to do the job right. While we don't get insane amounts of CAP from skirmish etc. it does all add up and it adds up on my WHM lol.

I solo'd 2100 (+500!) jobpoints on WAR, because I really love my WAR, and nobody seems to want a WAR in serious XP burns. I solo'd around 500jp on PUP and DNC too, again because they are not desirable in serious XP burns.

As I said when I tried to seppuku this thread two months ago, I know it will never happen, and I'm resigned to soloing more jobs to Master status. I'm happy that I finished my main WAR job solo, so I don't have to worry about it now.

And like other people have said, the Jobpoints system and the Lore Reasons, are awesome ideas, and make a great deal of sense. But they translate poorly to the actual physical game where people will stick to the fastest setups, and other jobs go and solo with Trusts. Again, this is not a real criticism of the system, it is just an observation. To be quite honest, I'm just really happy that FFXI is still online, and I can still log in and play the game I love.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I understand your sentiment, Omnys, but in my view the problem is the job balance, not the job point system.

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This is true, but they have never ever achieved balance in this game. Any game that does, does that through homogenization making everybody the same. I love that dnc, sch, blu, nin are very very distinct jobs and I don't want any to lose their flavor in favor of balance.

So, with that conclusion, something has to be done about the JP system.

The world of 2h weapons need a buff too, and it's a simple one. The base stats and augment stats' total accuracy for 2h weapons from a boss tier are about equivalent to those offered to 1h weapons meant to be dual-wielded. Grips do not make up for this. I believe the ACC augment, and perhaps almost all augments on 2h weapons (atk, str, dex) should be doubled in potency. It's not an "I want" thing either. I have no desire to play war, drk, sam or especially drg.

I know two people that have taken RNG up in great burns never firing a single arrow. Likewise you could Master blu without learning a single spell (well, you'd want to go learn Erratic Flutter for Haste II, and probably magic fruit or plemilune).

Other jobs, like THF and SMN are like gimp versions of favored jobs (DNC and SCH).