The struggle of Supporter Jobs other then BRD

This goes out to the Devs out there, because GEOs and CORs (more so GEO) are struggling to compete against BRD in terms of the support job place in PTs. Especially anythign that doesnt involve alliance content, since in "most" cases there is only place for 1 support job in 1 PT groups.
This is due to 2 things mostly: BRDs have Scherzo and Marches.

Pls make all 3 Support jobs desirable in any spot by doing the following changes:

CORs:
- Implement a Runeist's Roll that cuts down sever Damage surpassing 75% of your HP (Scherzo equivalent/mirror)
- Implement a Geomancer's Roll that gives MAGICAL Haste to PT members (or swap an old roll out for it, whatever)
- Reduce Phantom roll recast to 10 sec for situations ith lots of dispel and being able to adjust easy


GEO:
This ones needs a bit more fixing, GEO struggles with any content as buffer where their luopans die because of one hit (AAs very difficult, list goes on) and where the PT is more dynamic (aka wandering aroudn changing position)

- Make the Indi spells castable on other PT member besides yourself (still limiting it to 1 Indi spell)
Reason: Avoid the Danger of haveing to stand near mobs that can literally one shot you if you are swapign gear out and arent /nin ¬.¬, makes also moveing around easier
- Make the Luopan pet auto follow the PT member you casted in on or the Monster you casted it on.
Reason: this would allow for a more dynamis play, and less static, changing positions wouldnd be bad
- Implement a Indi/Geo Spell that mirrors Scherzo
- Implement a Indi/Geo Spell that gives Magical Haste.
- Last: freaking give luopans like -90% DT, like seriously, luopans dont deal any damage (outside of poison which is laughable and if you let it explode), there is NO reason our Luopans should take that much damage when it doesnt even deal damage to mobs or take any hate of them.... FLAW of design.


AND LAST: make songs/rolls instantly wear off as soon as the COR or BRD leaves the PT. no more bullshit PT rotations.


/rant off.

Seriously, make them supporters close to equal!

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CORs:
- Implement a Runeist's Roll that cuts down sever Damage surpassing 75% of your HP (Scherzo equivalent/mirror)
- Implement a Geomancer's Roll that gives MAGICAL Haste to PT members (or swap an old roll out for it, whatever)
- Reduce Phantom roll recast to 10 sec for situations ith lots of dispel and being able to adjust easy

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I disagree, I believe the idea was to make different support jobs, why have different jobs if they perform the same role exactly?

I think the lack of gear is what is killing COR. they lack roll enhancing gear to compete with the bards +song gear, and I am one of the followers that believe that COR is meant to be a DD/Support, however they lack in the ranged DD gear. The ammo/Gun that corsair has access to is far behind that of a RNG in DPS, forcing them to /whm to be a full support, once again mimicking bard.

Perhaps they meant with the high delay on guns for cor to build with melee and WS with Gun but in almost all content they would serve a much better purpose with the ability to DPS at a range and only move in for buffs.

All in all i think COR/GEO(haven't played geo much so...) need to be looked at by the devs, however i think it should be in focusing on having each be comparable in buffs but bring different sub roles to the table.

Well for starters each job need to be good in there own way.

Cor just needs 2-4 rolls to be better, 4 rolls with less recast timer, to get buff up in a timely manor.
I don't see a problem when bard gets +4/4 song +1 R/E/1hr that COR cant have it too.

and for GEO .. Good luck I don't know.

Oh and RDM need Enlight & EnDark why PLD and DRK got these and not RDM im lost.
When does RDM get HasteGA or Accession Haste to work with /sch

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AND LAST: make songs/rolls instantly wear off as soon as the COR or BRD leaves the PT. no more bullshit PT rotations.

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Forgot to touch on this.. I agree this needs to end, but rather than be removed instantly i believe they (I believe was said in another thread) need to carry across to alliance, or better yet, be a buff that goes to anyone in the area regardless what party.

The limit to party is not stopping the buffs from being cast on the whole alliance anyway since they swap so why even leave it this way.

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Originally Posted by Damane

AND LAST: make songs/rolls instantly wear off as soon as the COR or BRD leaves the PT. no more bullshit PT rotations.

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I don't agree with this, that made half of the COR roll completely useless forever. For example, instead of having 2 COR use Chaos/fighter/rogue/hunter when you really needs super buff, and able to use all 4 rolls, you'll never get to use the other 2 after first two. Unless you have 2 COR in same pt, which is just a waste of space.

Giving COR 3~4 rolls lowers COR output, I don't want that either.

I'd rather get a chance to use all my rolls depending on situation.

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Originally Posted by Afania

I don't agree with this, that made half of the COR roll completely useless forever. For example, instead of having 2 COR use Chaos/fighter/rogue/hunter when you really needs super buff, and able to use all 4 rolls, you'll never get to use the other 2 after first two. Unless you have 2 COR in same pt, which is just a waste of space.

Giving COR 3~4 rolls lowers COR output, I don't want that either.

I'd rather get a chance to use all my rolls depending on situation.

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Its for the sake of balancing things out, not only accross supporter jobs, but also for battle content.

I just did an AA fight on COR and now I feel like coming up with more COR rant too D:

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Originally Posted by Paridise

Well for starters each job need to be good in there own way.

Cor just needs 2-4 rolls to be better, 4 rolls with less recast timer, to get buff up in a timely manor.
I don't see a problem when bard gets +4/4 song +1 R/E/1hr that COR cant have it too.

and for GEO .. Good luck I don't know.

Oh and RDM need Enlight & EnDark why PLD and DRK got these and not RDM im lost.
When does RDM get HasteGA or Accession Haste to work with /sch

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I don't agree, having 4 rolls will severely reduce COR's output, that's just killing the entire point of this job to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Magnus

I disagree, I believe the idea was to make different support jobs, why have different jobs if they perform the same role exactly?

I think the lack of gear is what is killing COR. they lack roll enhancing gear to compete with the bards +song gear, and I am one of the followers that believe that COR is meant to be a DD/Support, however they lack in the ranged DD gear. The ammo/Gun that corsair has access to is far behind that of a RNG in DPS, forcing them to /whm to be a full support, once again mimicking bard.

Perhaps they meant with the high delay on guns for cor to build with melee and WS with Gun but in almost all content they would serve a much better purpose with the ability to DPS at a range and only move in for buffs.

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The point is BRD got all the best and unique buffs for current content, they got the best melee buffs(march), and dmg cut is kinda required for certain strategy. COR gets strongest attack buff and ranged haste, ideally it'd work well in PLD+RNG setup. But quite a lot of current NM strategy that needs PLD+RNG setup needs scherzo. In the end ppl just use BRD anyway.

The issue is that buff wise, currently COR does not have any game changing rolls for current strategy. Once you try to fit a SCH in the pt COR has to sit out.

Now on to DD aspect. The issue of COR falling behind RNG is more than just gear, it's mostly JA issue. Gear wise it's not THAT different. Sure, ammo was quite behind, but most RNG don't spam highest tier ammo anyways. It's really the JA that's make or break when it comes to the ranged DD aspect.

First of all, COR does not have Velocity shot. Secondly, COR does not have Decoy shot. Velocity shot obviously increases the output, but Decoy shot is what makes COR unable to DD even if they can. In longer fights COR WILL pull hate if DDing properly(using last stand), even if RNG doing twice more dmg than COR. COR also has no low enmity WS, the best usable low hate WS is WF which is terrible on most NM except a few delve2 NM.

So there, looking all the ranged attack DD stat on IL119 AF and relic, they're telling me to play the job like a ranger+BRD hybrid. But I still can't DD properly because it's way too easy to pull hate in zones like Marjami or AA battle field. In the end, I just buff and stand there to look pretty, or buff and go to the opposite side of mage(so I don't MPK ppl) and die after a few last stand. Or buff and use WF and do nearly pointless dmg, hoping it take longer to pull hate from NM.

When it comes to ranged DD aspect, I only have 1 suggestion: Give COR decoy shot or fix WF dmg. That's a good start, everything else can come later. I don't mind COR doing half of RNG's dmg, as long as COR dmg+ buff dmg> or = 1 extra RNG(and it usually can, if buffing at least 3 DD and DDing properly). But without decoy shot or low enmity WS, the ranged DD + buff hybrid won't work unless it's a zerg fight.

If playing as ranged DD+ buff isn't the right way, stop giving COR a ton of ranged stat on 119 AF. Maybe give more buff gears, or mage gears, or melee gears. As it stand now it's mostly ranged DD gears, which simply won't work properly in PLD+RNG strat due to above reasons.

Edit: Personally I haven't try /DRG or anything like that, so idk /DRG's effectiveness. But /DRG kinda killed many other SJ selection and lowered the dmg too.

Melee wise I don't think COR has huge issue. In the situation you're using melee, COR should be able to melee too, in fact melee COR is quite strong in certain zones like Ceizak. It's just kinda not needed in a 6 man melee setup.

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Originally Posted by Afania

I just did an AA fight on COR and now I feel like coming up with more COR rant too D:




I don't agree, having 4 rolls will severely reduce COR's output, that's just killing the entire point of this job to begin with.




The point is BRD got all the best and unique buffs for current content, they got the best melee buffs(march), and dmg cut is kinda required for certain strategy. COR gets strongest attack buff and ranged haste, ideally it'd work well in PLD+RNG setup. But quite a lot of current NM strategy that needs PLD+RNG setup needs scherzo. In the end ppl just use BRD anyway.

The issue is that buff wise, currently COR does not have any game changing rolls for current strategy. Once you try to fit a SCH in the pt COR has to sit out.

Now on to DD aspect. The issue of COR falling behind RNG is more than just gear, it's mostly JA issue. Gear wise it's not THAT different. Sure, ammo was quite behind, but most RNG don't spam highest tier ammo anyways. It's really the JA that's make or break when it comes to the ranged DD aspect.

First of all, COR does not have Velocity shot. Secondly, COR does not have Decoy shot. Velocity shot obviously increases the output, but Decoy shot is what makes COR unable to DD even if they can. In longer fights COR WILL pull hate if DDing properly(using last stand), even if RNG doing twice more dmg than COR. COR also has no low enmity WS, the best usable low hate WS is WF which is terrible on most NM except a few delve2 NM.

So there, looking all the ranged attack DD stat on IL119 AF and relic, they're telling me to play the job like a ranger+BRD hybrid. But I still can't DD properly because it's way too easy to pull hate in zones like Marjami or AA battle field. In the end, I just buff and stand there to look pretty, or buff and go to the opposite side of mage(so I don't MPK ppl) and die after a few last stand. Or buff and use WF and do nearly pointless dmg, hoping it take longer to pull hate from NM.

When it comes to ranged DD aspect, I only have 1 suggestion: Give COR decoy shot or fix WF dmg. That's a good start, everything else can come later. I don't mind COR doing half of RNG's dmg, as long as COR dmg+ buff dmg> or = 1 extra RNG(and it usually can, if buffing at least 3 DD and DDing properly). But without decoy shot or low enmity WS, the ranged DD + buff hybrid won't work unless it's a zerg fight.

If playing as ranged DD+ buff isn't the right way, stop giving COR a ton of ranged stat on 119 AF. Maybe give more buff gears, or mage gears, or melee gears. As it stand now it's mostly ranged DD gears, which simply won't work properly in PLD+RNG strat due to above reasons.

Edit: Personally I haven't try /DRG or anything like that, so idk /DRG's effectiveness. But /DRG kinda killed many other SJ selection and lowered the dmg too.

Melee wise I don't think COR has huge issue. In the situation you're using melee, COR should be able to melee too, in fact melee COR is quite strong in certain zones like Ceizak. It's just kinda not needed in a 6 man melee setup.

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Do you see now the reason why i proposed to give COR and GEO March and scherzo equivalent buff choices? I am very well aware that the attack and accuracy buffs geo and cor provide are equal or stronger then brd, thats why i didnt propose something like a 3. roll or 3. geo spell, I just want equal footing for buffs and the capability to do so, hence the reason why i would like to see march and scherzo like buffs for COR and GEO.