Can anyone explain to us why summoners still behind when it comes to job abilities? I have taken out the merit job abilities.
Summoner Job Abilities 3
1 Astral Flow
50 Elemental Siphon
87 Mana Cede
Puppet master Job Abilities 7
01 Overdrive
01 Activate
05 Deus Ex Automata
15 Repair
30 Maintenance
79 Tactical Switch
95 Cooldown
Beastmaster Job Abilities 6
01 Familiar
01 Charm
10 Gauge
12 Reward
23 Call Beast
30 Tame
New jobs:
Geomancer Job Abilities 10
01 Bolster
05 Full Circle
25 Lasting Emanation
25 Ecliptic Attrition
40 Collimated Fervor
50 Life Cycle
60 Blaze of Glory
70 Dematerialize
80 Theurgic Focus
90 Concentric Pulse
Rune Fencer Job Abilities 7
01 Elemental Sforzo
05 Rune Enchantment
10 Wards
20 Swordplay
25 Effusions
60 Embolden
95 One for All
SMN Job Abilities
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05-11-2013, 11:49 PMManuxSummoners Job Abilities
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05-14-2013, 09:56 AMReaper
could it be because smn has more pet commands than any other job? (I don't actually know just guessing)
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05-14-2013, 10:54 AMMokeilThis would be my reasoning. Don't forget that avatar's Favor is stashed under Pet Commands, too! It should probably have been implemented as a regular JA, like all the other Stance type effects - especially given that we can freely switch between favors once the effect is up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper
Also, a quick look at those lists show that at least two each of the JAs for PUP and BST are for calling up their pets, which is handled for SMN via spells. A further one each - two for PUP - are devoted to healing and status removal. Again, these aren't really needed for SMN since we can simply call out another full strength (such as it is) avatar as needed. Removing these from the lists would drop both PUP and BST down to 3 JAs each as well.
I'm not certain that we can really be compared to GEO or RUN based on the number of job abilities we have, though. Maybe GEO (and only because the luopan counts as a pet), but that would be stretching it. -
05-15-2013, 04:52 AMManux
we are talking about Job Abilities here bst and pup have more, we smn only get 2 anyways if we cut off the 1 hour so they haven't really given us anything part from Mana Cede at 87. And the avatars should be just as powerful as bst pet O.o?
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05-15-2013, 06:14 AMMokeilI thought I had clearly laid out why they both have more job abilities and why this isn't actually an issue that needs to be addressed. Allow me to try once more. I shall outline my thoughts as clearly and entirely as I can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manux
In regards to PUP (which you listed as having 7 abilities):- Activate and Deus Ex Automata are both used only as a means of calling out their pet. These are an analogue of our summoning spells. It's how they get their Automaton out. That's all these JAs do. Given that fact, I don't think it's at all fair to count these. Otherwise why don't Puppetmasters get spells? I mean, Summoner has, like, 17 spells and PUP has 0! That is why PUP has these two job abilities and Summoner has none to match it.
- Repair and Maintenance are used to cover Automaton healing and status removal, respectively. Summoner does not have to worry about this because we can call out fresh, full HP Avatars at whim. Low on HP? Call out a new avatar. Petrified? Call out a new avatar. We can, in fact, call out new avatars every 10 seconds or so if we were so inclined. On the other hand, as PUP must wait 20 minutes to be able to pull out a full HP/MP Automaton, it becomes important to make sure that their pet can endure a little punishment. This is why PUP has these two JAs, and Summoner has no equivalent.
- Overdrive is the PUP SP ability. It is matched by Astral Flow. 'Nuff said.
- This leaves Tactical Switch and Cooldown left to address, to which I will respond that we have Elemental Siphon and Mana Cede.
In regards to Beastmaster (which you listed as having 6 abilities):- Charm and Call Beast are how a BST gets its pets. That's all these two JAs do. We, however use magic to call our pets. As with PUP above, that is why BST has these two JAs and Summoner has no matching ones.
- Reward is used for pet healing. This is even more important for BST than it is for PUP. If there's nothing nearby to charm, BST has only a 5 minute timer with which they can call jug pets with. Whereas SMN can just keep recasting the same avatar out at will. That is why BST has this JA, and SMN has no equivalent.
- Familiar is the BST SP ability. It is, of course, matched by Astral Flow.
- Guage and Tame are all that's left for BST, to which I once again respond that SMN has Elemental Siphon and Mana Cede
In summation, once you account for PUP and BST's need to both call out their pets and keep them healed, you can see that the three jobs are, in fact, equal in JAs granted between 1 and 99 (not counting merits JAs, as you originally stipulated).
One: You can't count the SP abilities above for all the jobs, and then suddenly not count it down here without also making sure to remove it from the counts to all of the other jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manux
Two: You clearly state there are two besides the SP ability, and then say we only get Mana Cede. What happened to Elemental Siphon (which you also listed in your initial post) at Lvl 50?
This is a completely separate argument, and should probably be held elsewhere, given the title of your topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manux
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05-20-2013, 02:39 AMAlhanelemSince when was job ability quantity a measure of how good a job is? BLMs historically haven't had many job abilities either, but have been vaulable to have at various points in history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manux
Technically, all BPs are job abilities, making SMN actually have more JAs than any other job.