Well i just got an ideia on the other day i would like to share, since i belive that upping the enmity cap would not solve the issue and upping it for tanking jobs only would break the game i tought another interresting solution, what if tank/semi tank jobs (war,nin,dnc,pld) got a job trait that once they get hit by an enemy attack it makes all players around him in a certain radius(not a big one so mages cant really abuse from this effect unless they get risky and enter the radius) to loose enmity and with the higer levels of the trait the person getting hit would lose less enmity then the others?
I dont belive this would break the game too much but im not much sure if it would completely fix the problem either.
In the scenario that all players have capped enmity a war getting hit for exemple would reduce all players enmity (war abit less) so the monster would still be attacking him, but if a pld wants to free the war it would just be a meter of throwing some flash/voke in it then since it would start hitting the pld and it would stay hitting it because it would loose less enmity then the others , unless the war get into lets kill then all mode and start dealing heavy damage too fast, then the mob would be back to him because he would cap enmity first, this way it would be a constant race to cap enmity first then a fight to keep the pole position.
Well this is just an ideia that might work i want to get more opinions and facts if it would not work properly maybe even solutions.
There is some questions i asked myself while thinking about the JT:
Why a JT and not a change in enmity system?
- I think it will cause less impact on how the combat works if this get in as a JT (and might be easier to implement a JT then as a enmity system revamp).
What level it should be avalible?
-I would say about 5-10+ as it would help overall tanking and even tough low-mid levels are pretty much inexistent now adays its still there and shouldn´t be overlooked.
Why X jobs have it?
- I chosed those jobs because mainly they are the ones involved in tanking (as main and/or sub jobs) and making it a JT would help more then the jobs listed.
Why Affect a radius instead of a full pt/alliance?
-Mainly to avoid breaking the game since mages would never be targeted in that case since their hate would be constantly droping with everything the mob hits (since most of the jobs that gets the trait are pretty comum subjob choices anyway).
Why make the person getting hit lose less enmity instead of the same amount?
-Because if it reduced everything to the same amout would pretty much be the same as it is right now, the hate would still be bumping between the DDs because they can hit faster/harder generating more hate then a tank can keep up with.
The concept behind it was to help tanks become usefull again by attacking what makes tanks lose efectiveness now adays wich is when everyone hits the hate cap, since only the person geting hit gets their enmity reduced it pretty much makes tanking worthless this ideia try to make tanks viable but do not give then a level of enmity that make impossible to be overcomed making him the perma tank, instead it makes possible for it be on tanking duty but if the tank gets careless or the DDs get too hasty they will still be getting hit.
sorry for any grammar mistakes and the long post and thanks for reading.
Tanking issue ideia (brainstorm)
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08-13-2012, 02:51 AMSmokenttpTanking issue ideia (brainstorm)
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08-13-2012, 06:20 PMLuvbunny
I would edit your post and clarify your train of thoughts, you seemed to be overtly excited when you wrote this :)
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08-13-2012, 10:47 PMMeyi
I have to disagree with this idea. I think it'd break the game even more than their update will. Mainly because enmity is a hate control issue, and having the tank not only gain enmity but having the members around them lose it would cause an imbalance. Mages could stand near the tank and spam for more whereas DD could also spam more Weapon Skills and Job Abilities.
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08-13-2012, 11:56 PMSarick
Brainstorm, WTF I just posted this the other day!
Link Here.
I saw this post today you might have beaten me to this today but I still said already years ago. -
08-14-2012, 01:11 AMSmokenttpI will a bit later today thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvbunny
well the tank will still be losing hate only at a less rate so i can see you relating it to gaining hate instead, i will try to make it clearer when i edit the post.well for the mages part i agree(also reading right now i realised i wasnt explicit at the size of the range altough i did say that it was limited because of the mages) but that would bring to then a risk of being in aoe range and if they pulled high enmity they would drag hate for thenselfs meaning it would not be the best ideia in the world altough i can see it being abused, while about DDs i think it would not have the impact you are talking since unless the tank is spaming hate management ja/spells DDs would still get hate from tank because of sheer damage power depending on how strong/weak is the effect of jt a metter of *coff coff* balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyi
glad someone tought about it already about that but why havent you posted this before? >.> don´t post ambigous stuff like that sounding like i stole your ideia away mainly becuase here shows we both posted that in the same day but you posted it about 5 hours later then me >.> , also the brainstorm part is to try to collect information to make this ideia viable or just throw it in the garbage in case it actually breaks the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
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08-14-2012, 01:56 AMMeyiWhat I mean is that mages can stand directly next to the tank and have the enmity down effect. If it's with a Paladin who can cover then that adds even more to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokenttp
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08-14-2012, 02:35 AMSmokenttpi havent taken cover into account but how long is cover going on for these days? i dunno if it last that long so it can make a huge difference , also if mobs dont have aoe attacks i can see this being extremly abusive as well, altough the tank would still be doing its job that is dont letting other ppl getting hit, it can´t be a perma tank (by perma tank i mean without chance of losing in the hate race to anyone), now if mobs do have aoes the mages would be putting thenselfs to danger (save covered ppl) to have the enmity down effect so i see no issue in that specific scenario (also looking on the bright side of it would be nice to see more ppl using cover), anyway i belive that can be solved just by crunching the numbers anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyi
Lets get some fictional numbers runing for a bit, lets consider a hit taking down 10 enmity and a 100 enmity cap, hiting the mob with an auto attack generates between 1(dagger/swords)-3(sycthe/GA/GK) enmity , ws´s 4-6 and magic 1-15. now lets say the JT makes everyone around the tank lose 10 enmity (100% as if they are taking the hit thenselfs) and at max level trait the tank losses 7 enmity ( 30% less) the diference would not be big but enough for the mob target the tank but if the mages go with a median-powerfull spell or the DD´s with a median-powerfull ws they may be targeted instead, however if the tank manages to pull hate before that happens the mob will probably stay on him for one more swing reducing the enmity again. -
08-14-2012, 03:50 AMSarickMore like OMG someone is thinking on the same level as me. I made this suggestion in a post a log time ago, on this forum.Long long long time ago. After seeing the THF post I added it again there with the catch that Mystic Knight might get it. Anyway, It would only break the game if it's effect made it impossible to lose hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokenttp
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08-14-2012, 04:31 AMSmokenttpsorry if i sounded rude or/and jumped into conclusion tough, i must be spending too much time on flame war topics >.>(the way you worte it is pretty much the same as people use to win an argument prove something so that may have me assume something really sorry about that).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarick
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08-14-2012, 05:59 AMSarickNo problem, my comment was misinterpreted because well, it sounded exactly like you thought. Kudos though for posting in a few hours before me. I do hope SE adds something like this aura or ability to reduce enmity the target has for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokenttp
It'd be easy to balance this just by altering the enmity decay rate of players in the aura or enemies targets in the hate pool.