Dual Wield Trait + Haste

How does the Dual Wield Job Trait stack with Haste?

Does the combination of DW & Haste cap at 80% ?

Total delay reduction caps at 80%.

Haste and dual wield are multiplicative rather than additive.

Delay% = (1 - Haste) * (1 - DW)

Example:

If you want to find out how much Haste you need to cap Delay reduction with 35 Dual Wield, your equation would be:

0.2 = (1 - 0.35) * (1 - Haste%) [Note that I reversed the order because Multiplication is Commutative]

0.2 / (1 - 0.35) = (1 - Haste%)

0.30 = 1 - Haste%

Haste% = 0.7

With 35 Dual Wield, you need 70% Haste to cap delay reduction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Haste and dual wield are multiplicative rather than additive.

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That's a bummer.
Thanks for the math.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greatguardian

Total delay reduction caps at 80%.

Haste and dual wield are multiplicative rather than additive.

Delay% = (1 - Haste) * (1 - DW)

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Late but- For people who look at this and say 'wut?'

The easiest way to explain how haste and dual wield co-exist is to simply say that you apply one of them to your total delay, then apply the other to the new delay.

Like if you have two 100 delay katanas, and 25% haste and 25% dual wield. You would add 100+100 for the delay of the katanas to reach 200. Then apply 25% haste to that for a new delay of 150. Then apply your 25% dual wield reduction to the 150, for a new delay of 112.5.

Also: If you really want to figure out how much haste/DW/etc is required to reach cap there's two things you should know. Haste is broken down into division of 1024, 1% haste is really 11/1024 delay reduction, slightly more then 1%, 2% haste is 20/1024, slightly less then 2%, 3% is 30/1024, 4% is 40/1024, 5% is 50/1024, 6% is 61/1024, 7% is 71/1024, etc. So with the exception of 1% haste gear, it's actually worth less then advertised. Dual wield does not work like this. 25% Dual wield is a 25% reduction, 45% Dual wield is a 45% reduction, 10% Dual wield is a 10% reduction. No fractions or weird numbers to try and remember.

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Like if you have two 100 delay katanas, and 25% haste and 25% dual wield. You would add 100+100 for the delay of the katanas to reach 200. Then apply 25% haste to that for a new delay of 150. Then apply your 25% dual wield reduction to the 150, for a new delay of 112.5.

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Is there away to compare DW vs. Haste when judging gear (like 2% haste > 5% DW) or would you have to run the numbers for your specific weapon delays and current haste?

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Originally Posted by wish12oz

Haste is broken down into division of 1024, 1% haste is really 11/1024 delay reduction, slightly more then 1%, 2% haste is 20/1024, slightly less then 2%, 3% is 30/1024, 4% is 40/1024, 5% is 50/1024, 6% is 61/1024, 7% is 71/1024, etc.

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The progression is actually quite irregular, which irritates me. Not sure what SE were thinking when they did this, but yeah, generally Haste values are lower than they appear on equipment. However, single digit values divided by 1024 won't affect your gear choices too much, the only thing you should take away from this is that you need 26% Haste in equipment (on the item description) to truly cap Haste at 25%.

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Originally Posted by Sappho

Is there away to compare DW vs. Haste when judging gear (like 2% haste > 5% DW) or would you have to run the numbers for your specific weapon delays and current haste?

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If you look at the equations, you'll see that they both do the same thing. However, one interesting thing is that both of them become a lot more potent, the more of it you have. For example, if you have 75% Haste and 0% Dual Wield, and you can choose between adding 5% Haste or 5% Dual Wield, then you'd get a lot higher bonus from the Haste. Since Haste is generally the buff you have more of (unless you're a NIN or DNC, without a BRD), it would be advisable to go for that (unless you hit the cap, of course).

Another reason which promotes Haste in favor of Dual Wield is the fact that Dual Wield will impair your TP gain. The TP/hit you get is based on your Delay, and while Haste doesn't modify your Delay, Dual Wield does. So the more Dual Wield you have, the less TP you get.

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Originally Posted by Sappho

Is there away to compare DW vs. Haste when judging gear (like 2% haste > 5% DW) or would you have to run the numbers for your specific weapon delays and current haste?

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You pretty much need to do the math if you want to know, since it is so heavily dependent on what other gear you're using and how much of each you could possibly add. Unless you're comparing the same value, like if your choice is 5 haste or 5 dual wield, then you simply pick the one you have more of. If you're just being lazy or don't care, go for the one with the higher number and you're probably picking correctly. (gear haste caps at 26% listed gear haste, which really amounts to 25% haste, DW enhancement on gear or from traits doesn't cap.)

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Originally Posted by Arcon

Another reason which promotes Haste in favor of Dual Wield is the fact that Dual Wield will impair your TP gain. The TP/hit you get is based on your Delay, and while Haste doesn't modify your Delay, Dual Wield does. So the more Dual Wield you have, the less TP you get.

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Excellent point.
I had forgotten about DW gimping TP gain per hit

Thanks all for the info.