Fame and reputation - a case study in broken design

I've recently returned to FFXI and on the whole I'm enjoying the game, despite the fact that it seems to have become one long grind to get to content..

Personally, I want to go through all the old content but find myself continuously frustrated by the requirement to use websites to figure out what the heck is going on.

For example, I am in the middle of doing the Magicite (Bastok) mission. The Governor of Jeuno (or whatever he's called) asks me to go and see Aldo who is part of the Tenshodo. I know that the Tenshodo are in the Neptune's Spire in Lower Jeuno (thanks ffxiclopedia! would've been nice if the game even hinted that that is where they are to be found..) but now I can't even select the hidden option from the lady at the entrance to Neptune's Spire because I apparently don't have high enough fame.

Fame. Something that isn't explained well in the game, it isn't obvious to show you how much fame you have, how you can acquire it, how much fame each quest will give and this mission blocking instance where you NEED the fame to progress, have no idea that that is what you need or how to get it.

This is a major stumbling block for the game design to me and really, even now, so many years on, I think that this is something that the FFXI team really need to address - this and the fact that quest flow is so appalling bad and difficult that you really need to play with a PC next to you. Appalling.

I love this game but it's understandable that the population is dwindling when you can't even make quest lines simple.

I suggest that the FFXI team assign some people to streamlining the quests a little, making them a little easier to understand and obvious how to progress. Playing guessing games just isn't that fun.

And no - buying the Tenshodo invite from the AH isn't the answer, it's 30k, I don't have that kind of money and it's beside the point. How was I supposed to know that I didn't have the required fame, how much I have and how I get more?!

I know there was a suggestion in these Forums some time back for a quest tracker with progress dialogue which received mixed support. Might be a good time to revive it.

Yes, to be able to select the blank line from the Tenshodo NPC you do have to have a certain fame level which I agree is ludicrous since most people groan when faced with collecting Yag Necklaces or Zinc Ores to turn in. Yag necklaces are a much higher drop rate than Zinc Ores unless you buy them. Honestly, the best thing for you to do is to earn that 30k and buy the invite, you can sell it right back. I know farming is boring, but if you farm the heck out of Saruta for Beehive chips and silk you can make enough to buy your invite. The other option is to ask friends if they have one they can lend you. In any event, you are going to have to earn that Tenshodo fame if you are looking at going after NIN because you can't get any of the :Ichi scroll quests without it and you will be shocked at how much Utsu: Ichi is.

Good luck in your endeavors. :)

I agree, they could have done a better job with the quests and missions.

When I started, I remember that I really didn't want to look up info from fan-sites at the time, and rather solve things myself. I quickly learned that this would not be possible as some things would take ages to find out if you were not going to accidentally bump into it.

I really expected the quest/mission orders in the menu to update with what you are currently supposed to do (like in, say, any other game?), but I think it's limited due to this and that limitation and because of how it was originally coded in.

Too easy is not fun either, no, that's why I don't use fan-site spoilers unless it will really save time and such (I actually ended up editing the wikki a lot myself, ooh the irony). The games I see people play these days, be it action or adventure, FPS or RPG, it seems like the game is taking the player(s) through it while holding their hands, basically smacking you into the face with what you have to do next... this is not fun either.

But I digress.


Unfortunately, I really don't see them working on this part of the game, though, no money or in other words, no man-power/interest to do it as it would be too much work.
Keep your Gamer Escape or/and FFXIclopedia or whatever your favourite one might be close to you, but I'd still recommend on trying them out by yourself at first.
Not every one and each of them are so bad.


I have to admit I was a little bit /sigh when I noticed that Abyssea quests have the fame-thing going on as well...
It's not quite as long process to get to the top though, as it is outside, but it is still rather tedious and not fun at all (some areas waaay worse than others).

I do agree on it as a concept, though, as in you need to make yourself known before people might trust you with their WoEs, but I think it's a 'bit' over-the-top in this game.


Anyways... just some thoughts~
Good luck and have fun!

if you think FFXI's quest & mission tracking system is horrible, you should see the joke that is FFXIV.
At least in FFXI you know you're on a quest/mission. In 14 its like
"walking through town, oh hey npc, hi."
10 days later grinding "conkajoolajons!"
"... wtf did i do?"
what?

Before we had all these websites, we had to figure all the "hidden" work for ourselves. Back then, that was part of the fun. Nobody really complained because the majority of us enjoyed figuring things out for ourselves.

But that was back then. Things were much more slow paced to how they are now. Half of the time we spent on the game was talking to NPCs to see what we could learn.

It's certainly much faster paced since then so I can see how being stuck at the same pace for quests and missions can feel sluggish, but I disagree that it should change. In my opinion I think all the untold work you have to figure out in order to progress gives a higher understanding and appreciation to the story behind this massive world they've created.

Wasn't there an NPC in Bastok that gives you an invite? ...been so long, I forget the details myself.

But yeah.. Fame was a grind. At least Bastok/Sandy were quick and easy to build.

Edit:
Yeah... had to hit the wiki. Jueno Fame 3 required, and you can get an application from Bastok. You can hit up the sheep guy in Selbina for the fast track to Sandy/Bastok fame, giving your Jueno fame a bump as well. Forget just how much it gives you in Jueno...should be enough, or at least close. I don't recall ever having fame issues in Jueno...but I was a heavy quest spammer--capped Bastok early on.

Quote:

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If you have Jeuno rep 3 continue...If not see notes >>*Enter Neptune's Spire in Lower Jeuno. Speak with the Tarutaru Sutarara, who will talk about the Tenshodo, and about it being "right under your nose".

■Speak to Ghebi Damomohe at the counter and select the third, blank line of dialogue. Ghebi will say that you need either a Tenshodo Invite or a Tenshodo Application Form.
Either:

■Head to Port Bastok and into Warehouse #2 across from the Airship Agency.
■Once inside, talk to Jabbar to receive the Tenshodo Application Form, then head back to Ghebi Damomohe in Neptune's Spire. Giving Ghebi Damomohe the Tenshodo Application Form grants you a Tenshodo Invite and completes the quest.

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The rep-gated quests were one of the biggest game design 'fails' in FFXI on several fronts:

1) there was no hint whatsoever that such quests existed
2) there was no hint whatsoever that there was such a thing as fame .. yes, I know about the NPCs that hint at your rep. level but that dialog is meaningless unless you already KNOW about the rep. system and what it gates
3) there was no hint whatsoever when you had passed each rep. level which would unlock quests on NPCs that there was no hint whatsoever existed

These days, posts like this, critical of XI, get karma-bombed on places like Alla by those who trot out the "search the web, noob" reply, fact is SE designed the game that basically FORCED early players to also by the 'official guide' so they knew about these things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cursed

if you think FFXI's quest & mission tracking system is horrible, you should see the joke that is FFXIV.

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Er, no, XIV's quest system is light-years ahead of XI's, you're talking rubbish.

XI's never updates the log after you take the quest/mission, try using the log to, say, play through any CoP, RoZ, city or other mission .. you'd be lying if you said the log was all you needed to know how to go about it beyond the first step, while XIV's log updates as you progress through multi-step quests.