Shadows vs Ranged attacks

[Habiki]

Why is it when fighting a ranger type enemy or any enemy that uses ranged attacks takes a shadow away no matter what, even if they don't have enough ranged accuracy to hit you normally without shadows, is this intended?

[Korpg]

Range Attacks can wiff and not take a shadow away.

Also, RNGs have this nice trait called Accuracy Bonus, they get that really early, and as far as I know, can go up to tier 5 of that trait. So they don't have to put on the gear for accuracy, they got it already!

Besides, do you want range attacks to go thru shadows now? If that's the case, Hi2u EES oneshotting anything NIN now...

[Zagen]

Range Attacks can wiff and not take a shadow away.
Unless they changed it this is only true for Ninja monsters.

[Korpg]

Unless they changed it this is only true for Ninja monsters.

There has been true all over the place.

I have been fighting RNG mobs and if they wiff while I have shadows up, it states that they missed and I still have 1-3 shadows left. Even EES have wiffed while I have shadows up. You just don't SEE it often because of the Accuracy Bonus trait (and the increases thereafter as the mob's level goes up).

[Zagen]

There has been true all over the place.

I have been fighting RNG mobs and if they wiff while I have shadows up, it states that they missed and I still have 1-3 shadows left. Even EES have wiffed while I have shadows up. You just don't SEE it often because of the Accuracy Bonus trait (and the increases thereafter as the mob's level goes up).
Those Goblin Ambushers in Bubu must be the exception then, cuz they have some crazy ranged accuracy when shadows are up:

http://lootnscoot.heckgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/rng-shadow-test.png

Edit: pretty sure against a level 90 NIN they would have a floored 20% ranged accuracy if ranged attacks from a ranger monster didn't always eat a shadow

[Sparthos]

Mobs have two different "ranged attacks".

The first is the Ranged Attack Goblins and Puppetmaster Automatons use.

This is actually a weaponskill of sorts rather than a standard /ra.

The second is commonly used by RNG/NIN type fomor and aerns.

This is more in line with common player /ra and is subject to a miss.

[Korpg]

Then it does need to be fixed, but I didn't see the wiffs from those mobs, more like dyanmis mobs.

[Behemuthxero]

Yes ranged attack is lame like that...its extremely annoying..almost better to not cast shadows at all...it just wastes gil lol...I assume of course this is probably being brought up because of ranger spam in dyna...only place it would really matter all that much. I myself have eaten a few EES from not having shadows after 2 rangers on me dropped them..its annoying..but really..if this game gets any easier...

[Habiki]

Range Attacks can wiff and not take a shadow away.

Also, RNGs have this nice trait called Accuracy Bonus, they get that really early, and as far as I know, can go up to tier 5 of that trait. So they don't have to put on the gear for accuracy, they got it already!

Besides, do you want range attacks to go thru shadows now? If that's the case, Hi2u EES oneshotting anything NIN now...

I just wan't ranged attacks to not take a shadow if the enemy would have whiffed the ranged attack without shadows being present.

Makes tanking any ranger type mob on ninja worthless as is, it would be like shadows being taken for any melee attack directed at you even if the enemy would have missed you, when you had no shadows.

Even to weak mobs seem to have 100% ranged accuracy when it comes to having shadows up but whiff constantly when shadows are down.

[Bumbeen]

back up so it can't melee you

[Habiki]

back up so it can't melee you

Um they can't hit me either, but melee attacks that would have missed don't take a shadow anyway. I can stand out of melee range and their ranged attacks will still rip through shadows, even though they can't hit me with a ranged attack without shadows up.

[Bumbeen]

Um they can't hit me either, but melee attacks that would have missed don't take a shadow anyway. I can stand out of melee range and their ranged attacks will still rip through shadows, even though they can't hit me with a ranged attack without shadows up.

If you evade then just don't cast utsusemi

[Habiki]

If you evade then just don't cast utsusemi

This is true vs those specific mobs but higher level enemys that have high enough ranged accuracy to hit sometimes but not all the time is where the real issue resides, it would be stupid to not cast shadows on them to avoid some of the attacks.

Ranged attacks that would have normally hit you should remove shadows.

Ranged attacks that would have missed you should not remove shadows.

Obviously you don't have ninja lvled so you can't understand how it works even though i've layed it out for you in a simple manner, or maybe you just like to troll through threads.

If the devs think it's fine the way it is then I have no issue with their choice, but as it is they might as well change melee attacks to the same way and kill ninja as a tank for everything not just mobs that primaraly use ranged attacks like so.

Melee attacks that would have normally hit you should remove shadows.

Melee attacks that would have missed you should remove shadows as well.

[Bumbeen]

Obviously the devs like it how it is as it's been that way for 8 years. I'm just trying to give you a solution to your gameplay problem. Which is just move away from mobs that can melee hit you if you need to recover. Or if they can't hit you with melee swings don't cast utsu as you're just wasting shihei on them, which not sure what would be the point if this thread was about those mobs as they would clearly be very low level and you wouldn't have any difficulty with them at all.

[Habiki]

Obviously the devs like it how it is as it's been that way for 8 years. I'm just trying to give you a solution to your gameplay problem. Which is just move away from mobs that can melee hit you if you need to recover. Or if they can't hit you with melee swings don't cast utsu as you're just wasting shihei on them, which not sure what would be the point if this thread was about those mobs as they would clearly be very low level and you wouldn't have any difficulty with them at all.

Its not about those mobs in general its about the whole gameplay mechanic in general. I used those mobs as an example to show how broken the whole ranged attack system is.

Maybe it was an oversight by the previous dev team, it's not like we had these forums 8 years ago to say anything about it.

[Malamasala]

This is true vs those specific mobs but higher level enemys that have high enough ranged accuracy to hit sometimes but not all the time is where the real issue resides, it would be stupid to not cast shadows on them to avoid some of the attacks.

That is actually the reason it exists. Way back people abused the fact that ranged attacks occur less often than melee attacks, so standing at a distance and using utsusemi meant you were invincible. SE didn't like this, especially not while they had accidentally made RNG ignore level differences and deal massive damage to any enemy.

Only time you'll see SE change this, is when they make ranged attacks as fast as normal attacks, and add double attack to them.

[Habiki]

That is actually the reason it exists. Way back people abused the fact that ranged attacks occur less often than melee attacks, so standing at a distance and using utsusemi meant you were invincible. SE didn't like this, especially not while they had accidentally made RNG ignore level differences and deal massive damage to any enemy.

Only time you'll see SE change this, is when they make ranged attacks as fast as normal attacks, and add double attack to them.

I'm glad to see theres a valid reason for it being the way it is, but I still think level differance should play some role in ranged attacks. Theres no reason a To weak mob should rip shadows away like its a lvl 90+ enemy. In todays game there would be no way to hold hate against high level enemys without meleeing, so I doubt it would make anyone invincible.

[Bumbeen]

But what's it matter if a too weak mob can take your shadows? Are you worried that you'll be tanking a real mob and then somehow a TW enemy is going to aggro you and start stripping your shadows and MPK you?

[Habiki]

But what's it matter if a too weak mob can take your shadows? Are you worried that you'll be tanking a real mob and then somehow a TW enemy is going to aggro you and start stripping your shadows and MPK you?

Lol no I just think its stupid, tell me why there shouldn't be a level correction for ranged attacks.

[Bumbeen]

not worth the mental energy gl with thread

[Malamasala]

Lol no I just think its stupid, tell me why there shouldn't be a level correction for ranged attacks.

Well, there wouldn't be a problem if there was. But there should also be stun arrows, throwing weapon skills etc. etc. so it is just one out of a hundreds of things that SE could waste time on.

[Karbuncle]

As explained earlier, Technically Goblins/Beastment/etc's Ranged Attacks are "TP moves", So they take shadows regardless, Where as Fomor/Aern are simple ranged-attacks that do not absorb shadows.

The "TP move" Ranged attack applies to dynamis as well.

That being said, Its stupid. Sometimes I feel people argue against something just for the sake of whining about something. really, There is no reason Ranged Attacks should absorb shadows if they should have missed. The only reason they do, i reiterate, is because technically the game sees them as TP moves.

We know this can change, Fomors at least perform basic ranged attacks, apparently Aerns too. So, They even corrected the Issue with Fomors/Aerns, this should expand to the others as well.

While its not a huge deal, I can relate to the OP and say i seriously hate tanking RNG/NIN mobs at any time, they literally eat shadows furiously. On a normal mob on THF i can get through multiple fights on one set of shadows most times, on a RNG They eat them all within seconds.

While not a giant catastrophe, its still stupid, and should be adjusted.

Does it have to happen right now? no, Get to it when they have time, its not a super-top priority change, but its still a change i would like to see in the future.