High Traffic Empyrean Seal Notorious Monster's

[Kuzyk]

Ok seriously is it just me or are there people out there with some kind of tricked out bot's that can pop NM's even the 2 item nm's before you even have a chance to hit your macro?? How about multiple ??? points for high traffic seal notorious monsters, it's actually EASIER to farm +2 item's than seals... there is something wrong with that I think. And rude players that refuse to alternate pops just make things even worse. Thanks a lot for player courtesy guys. You know who you are.

[Kazen]

Just so you know... this thread also has a fairly rude undertone. If I were you I'd edit it so it doesn't get deleted. As it stands now it looks more like a complaint thread as opposed to being a thread with the purpose of suggesting multiple pops on empyrean seal NMs.

Btw, just because someone is out popping you doesn't mean it's a bot.

[Sparthos]

It's more likely that you suck at a trade macro.

Fear not, go check out another seal mob and come back later.

[Valaris]

those trade bots are out there and they are able to pop the nm within a millisecond of the ??? coming up on the server but before the ??? physically appears but usually people wont bot on their main character due to the threat of being banned the botter is typically a low lvl 30 char sitting near the ??? in the pt on an account thats expendable at least thats how its done in my server.

[Greatguardian]

Oh, okay. Can you direct us to them?

Not even kidding, last time it was seriously asked on BG no one had any idea what the hell kind of "??? bot" people were talking about. And it's BG, if someone knew they'd say something. 90% of people just use trade macros, and 9% occasionally add a windower plugin which allows people to see and target despawned ???'s. Of course, you still have to trade macro even if you can target a despawned ???.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to exist. But to say that they're anywhere close to common/widespread is just funny.

[Kensagaku]

Will try to address these in order:

1) Learn to use a trade macro. I have two different ones depending. One is simply a [/item "item name" <t>] that I can use if my competition's not very good at popping themselves so I can just F8, macro, poof. The other is [/item "item name" <stnpc>] for the more competitive poppers. Make sure ignorepet is on so you don't target them, spam to your heart's content. Make sure there's no other NPCs around to target by accident though, can screw you up. :P

2) I'm not so worried about the seal NMs; very rarely do I ever have to compete over NMs short of body seal ones like Yaguirogui, and even then not often. I'm more worried about the NMs that are the single pop in order to get the next NM (Dhorme Khimaira, Ningzishida, Orthrus mostly). Waiting to do one NM in order to do your target NM when there's no other KIs or items you can go farm or cleave is way more annoying than waiting on a seal NM when there's two more in the zone that drops the seal you want.

3) I don't always alternate because I don't care to wait 20+ minutes for a mob that takes five to kill. If it's a group that can kill in a reasonable amount of time without zombie tactics etc, sure. I'm more than willing to alternate because they're not going to make me sit and stare into space for the time it would have taken me to kill three or four times as many of the same mob. By the time I'm done they would have done at most two pops, and slowed things down for everyone.

[Rie]

/targetnpc
/item "item" <t>

Works like a charm 9 times out of 10.

[Kazen]

/targetnpc
/item "item" <t>

Works like a charm 9 times out of 10.

Stop giving away our secrets. You can never trust those Norwegian people, they give away vidya gamez top secrets!

As someone said above, I don't mind alternating pops unless the other party is extremely slow in which I just then ignore them and pop to get mine done.

[Rie]

Sorry Kazen, but it's for your own good that some of these other players get to pop an NM every now and then. Wouldn't want them to think we're botting now, would we?

[Vold]

Oh, okay. Can you direct us to them?

Not even kidding, last time it was seriously asked on BG no one had any idea what the hell kind of "??? bot" people were talking about. And it's BG, if someone knew they'd say something. 90% of people just use trade macros, and 9% occasionally add a windower plugin which allows people to see and target despawned ???'s. Of course, you still have to trade macro even if you can target a despawned ???.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to exist. But to say that they're anywhere close to common/widespread is just funny.

What they consider bots is probably JP players having that ever so slight time advantage due to living right next to the servers. It ain't much of an advantage but it's certainly enough to account for "they are able to pop the nm within a millisecond of the ??? coming up on the server but before the ??? physically appears"

I can also trade 2+ pop items to a ??? pretty fast while many people fiddle around with it. I just don't think trade bots exist because there's never been a dying need for one. Fact is it's legitimately not a level playing field and never will be. Stuff will not universally spawn at the same exact time for everyone. It's the unfortunate truth of living thousands of miles away from the servers and or having a less than stellar computer that has no business running FFXI.

But hey, ya know, whatever. I'm sure someone somewhere has sucked enough to write at least their own bot for personal use. After all, it'd just work against their favor to be offering it to everyone else.

BTW I don't consider it rude to refuse to alternate pops. I consider it first come first serve, and rather rude for another group of people to try to force their way into a camp because they weren't bothered to check it first before gathering their minions.

[Glamdring]

it's ffxi, it's NMs, there's competition, especially during peak times, deal with it. It sux, we all know it sux, don't expect it to change. Best thing you can do is out-claim them once and take your time, trying 1 proc at a time, hopefully the "bot"-who may or may not be-will get sick of it and run off to do something else.

[Valaris]

Oh, okay. Can you direct us to them?

Not even kidding, last time it was seriously asked on BG no one had any idea what the hell kind of "??? bot" people were talking about. And it's BG, if someone knew they'd say something. 90% of people just use trade macros, and 9% occasionally add a windower plugin which allows people to see and target despawned ???'s. Of course, you still have to trade macro even if you can target a despawned ???.

I'm not saying it's impossible for them to exist. But to say that they're anywhere close to common/widespread is just funny.

did i say they were common? id like you to quote me where i said they were. I simply said they are out there so far ive seen about one or two. they are uncommon just because once reported they are banned pretty quickly. and just an fyi if you can make a bot that can fish for you, claim nms for you then you can certainly create a bot that can perform the simple action of trading a item to a ??? during the 1 second lag time that the server ??? pops and the data transmission to the players where the ??? becomes visible/targetable. people need to actually read these kinda posts carefully its not that they "need to learn to use a trade macro" they already do obviously when they state they are spamming it for the ???. what they are saying is the ??? is poped before the ??? physically appears. luckly for me ive done all my +1s for my jobs so i dont have to deal with it but not everyone has.

[Karbuncle]

did i say they were common? id like you to quote me where i said they were. I simply said they are out there so far ive seen about one or two. they are uncommon just because once reported they are banned pretty quickly. and just an fyi if you can make a bot that can fish for you, claim nms for you then you can certainly create a bot that can perform the simple action of trading a item to a ??? during the 1 second lag time that the server ??? pops and the data transmission to the players where the ??? becomes visible/targetable. people need to actually read these kinda posts carefully its not that they "need to learn to use a trade macro" they already do obviously when they state they are spamming it for the ???. what they are saying is the ??? is poped before the ??? physically appears. luckly for me ive done all my +1s for my jobs so i dont have to deal with it but not everyone has.

:Safeface:

I'm pretty sure ??? Bots don't exist, Every player I've come into contact with, Forum or in game, Has simply advocated the macro posted on page 1.

If this "bot" exists, Its very well hidden. And to be perfectly frank, bad players accuse everyone and everything of botting when they fail at something, So I'll really need some hard evidence before i believe a new super-rare underground ??? bot exists.

Really, You just had some really fast people, chances are they were speed-popping that, or that they popped so quickly your game didn't have time to register it, or it appeared/disappeared so fast you didn't catch it (its happened to me before with people in my own party, So i know it happens without the aid of a bot).

It was either probably just lag on your side or bad luck, Popping an NM before the ??? even loads would definitely throw up a red flag.

[Seriha]

and 9% occasionally add a windower plugin which allows people to see and target despawned ???'s. Of course, you still have to trade macro even if you can target a despawned ???.This is actually the more worrisome item, as unless you're about to profess having first-hand experience with it, if people using what I believe has been called Allseeingeye (not exactly openly distributed, so you might liken this to knowledge of Salvage duping where only those who "deserve to know" might have it), if they can see it (and you don't actually "see" ???s, you have to target them), they could feasibly prep multi-trade pops in the trade screen and just spam ok when it's due to reappear a minute after death. Granted, multi-pop NMs are rarer relative to single pop, and KI NMs could function differently, but simply being able to have the target prepped is an advantage even if spamming /target macros.

Regardless of this item's existence, all popped mobs deserve the 3 iteration treatment as "go check another NM" might not be an option.

[Greatguardian]

This is actually the more worrisome item, as unless you're about to profess having first-hand experience with it, if people using what I believe has been called Allseeingeye (not exactly openly distributed, so you might liken this to knowledge of Salvage duping where only those who "deserve to know" might have it), if they can see it (and you don't actually "see" ???s, you have to target them), they could feasibly prep multi-trade pops in the trade screen and just spam ok when it's due to reappear a minute after death. Granted, multi-pop NMs are rarer relative to single pop, and KI NMs could function differently, but simply being able to have the target prepped is an advantage even if spamming /target macros.

Regardless of this item's existence, all popped mobs deserve the 3 iteration treatment as "go check another NM" might not be an option.

Google it. Allseeingeye is nowhere near "Exclusive". It's just a windower plugin that doesn't sit on the front page. I know it's mentioned countless times over at FFXIAH (including download links), and people on BG have no problem bringing it up if asked about it. I'd liken it more to SMN burning. Sure, your random player who doesn't read forums may not know about it, but anyone who read BG, FFXIAH, or even asked about it could get a straight answer no matter who they are. I haven't even used it myself (though I know about it because, like I said, it's not exclusive) and I was able to pull up all relevant information on it and download links to it within like 2 minutes of googling.

As for Valaris, how do you know these people were botting? Because they beat little ol' you? That's not proof of anything other than they were faster than you. Find a screenshot of a player's desktop with the bot open over their FFXI screen, or admissions including .exe names by the people who are using it, else you're just throwing out strawmen for the sake of strawmen.

Did I say a bot that traded things would be impossible to make? No way, I'm sure it could be done. Is it being done? If it is, probably only by actual programmers. There's no market for bots in FFXI any more. Developers only distribute when they are able to make a reasonable enough profit from the actual distribution of the product to offset the profit they'd make from having exclusive rights to the product (yes, some people still sell gil for money). Fewer people are willing to drop $20 on a bot any more, so there is no viable market.

As for the whole JP server-side issue deal, unless your internet or computer are crap that should not really be an issue. It is not like JP players are seeing things a full second before we are. The differences are not static, and have a tendency to be too small for us to even perceive. I've beaten people to pops, JP or otherwise. I've been beaten to pops, JP or otherwise. The best tools you have at your disposal are still focus and a good macro.

[Eeek]

Does anyone really consider Allseeingeye as any sort of advantage? It sure won't let players trade items to a ??? any sooner than anyone else. A simple /trade macro and good ol' fashioned button mashing is all that's required. That's how other players are outpopping the OP.

I much prefer working with other groups and sharing ??? spots and NMs, but I will start actively trying to outpop other players who approach us with a rude attitude or start complaining about 'trade bots.'

I guarantee you that 95% of the people complaining these days about 'trade bots' are the same ones who complained years ago about a supposed 'Campaign Lot Bot' that 'guaranteed' high lots on Union drops when that system was new.

/shrug

[Izzybella]

IMO the problem isn't trade macros or not having multiple ??? spawns. The problem is rude players who refuse to alternate even when they drop in on a party already farming seals on a NM. There's no reason to be rude (or greedy) like that but it happens all too often.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Because you have exclusive rights to a NM? It's a courtesy, not a rule.

[MarkovChain]

And to be perfectly frank, bad players accuse everyone and everything of botting when they fail at something,

Because being unable to claim a ??? makes you a bad player. Watchout BG elitism guyz.

[Tamoa]

Because being unable to claim a ??? makes you a bad player. Watchout BG elitism guyz.

"Boohoo I got banned from BG."

What Karbuncle says is very much spot on. The bad players gets outpopped (and 9/10 times the bad players aren't even using a trade macro) and cry "OMG U BOTTER!". Everyone else shrugs it off and try again. It's such a nice excuse for your own fail to say the competition is botting.

[MarkovChain]

Yeah that's what I said, you are doing elitism around claiming ???. Bad player can't claim ??? and good ones can. Just like during Dragon's Aery I era (2004-2010).

edit : the game has changed soooo much.
edit2: sarcasm.

[Tamoa]

Because knowing how to make a trade macro makes me an elitist? Ok.

[MarkovChain]

Because you think this thread is about making a macro ? What happens when 10 persons use an elite a macro on a ???, please explain me. Does the most skilled player win ?

[Alderin]

/targetnpc
/item "item name" <t>

end of story as mentioned before..

If the competition is being unaccepting with altnernating pops then stand at an angle in front of where the ??? pops that you run no risk of targeting a mob, then spam the macro.

Had an arrogant little group that were spamming an NM - popped twice, so we politely asked if we could have the next pop. They replied with a rude "no", so of course I edited the ol' macro and outpopped them.. They left the camp straight away.

Sometimes you just have to fight fire with fire to people that are like that.

[Karbuncle]

Because you think this thread is about making a macro ? What happens when 10 persons use an elite a macro on a ???, please explain me. Does the most skilled player win ?

How is a Macro elite? You're just being unreasonable.

There is no Elitism in trying to pop a ???. We're not "Elite" For knowing the macro, its not some huge secret. Almost everyone openly tries to spread/teach this macro to make it easier for others.

If you have 10 people spamming the macro, its dumb luck who wins, there is no skill. Theres no skill it hitting a Macro. Really, I only go to "Macro spam mode" if people refuse to take turns. If i lose claim oh well if not yay. I dont feel any more skilled or special for doing it. I just popped an NM, big whoop.


This "topic" was created because some guy was out-popped, and now hes going into "They're botting" mode. There were also no coherent suggestions to solve the problem in the OP Either. A solution i could think of is allow up to 3 ??? for each seal NM. but that would make it a big cluster. It could work though, But I think some zones have an NPC Limit, This would more than likely mega-breach it :|


Because being unable to claim a ??? makes you a bad player. Watchout BG elitism guyz.

No, But being terribly gimp and then whining in /say channel or on a forum about how everyone must be botting does make you a bad player. Because it advertises your lack of understanding. Rather it be about the macro above which is no kept secret, or the fact no such bot for claiming ??? Exists (to the public at least).

But really, In the comment you quoted, i was talking more in general like: "If they look like a bad players, they'll likely scream bot". Think of it more along the lines of "Bad players, When outpopped, Cry bot".

So no, You're not a bad player for being out-popped, I was saying bad players usually cry bot when out-popped, not that being out-popped makes you bad. Sorry if thats not being explained clear enough, I'm sure you'll find some asinine detail to rant back at me about while calling me a BG ELitist because you're still angry you got banned from there.

(I don't even see how you can think I'm a "BGElitist", The only threads i visit there are RIT and Media... maybe the Minecraft thread...)

[MarkovChain]

You are doing the same as the whiners that complain about about everyone else botting when you generalize that those that complain on a forum about being unable to claim a ??? are necessarily gimp and unable to make macros, and implicitely negate the existence of botting in abyssea. Cos' a clever person is totally going to spend 1 hours getting a KI in a coffer when he could claim the NM every 10 minutes. Sooner or later the same people that are cock blocking each others for AF3 will move to empyrean weapon and it's going to be ugly.

[Tamoa]

You are doing the same as the whiners that complain about about everyone else botting when you generalize that those that complain on a forum about being unable to claim a ??? are necessarily gimp and unable to make macros, and implicitely negate the existence of botting in abyssea. Cos' a clever person is totally going to spend 1 hours getting a KI in a coffer when he could claim the NM every 10 minutes. Sooner or later the same people that are cock blocking each others for AF3 will move to empyrean weapon and it's going to be ugly.


I'm not saying nobody bots in Abyssea. However, being outpopped or outclaimed does NOT automatically mean your competition is botting. I've been both outpopped and outclaimed, several times in a row too, but I don't start spouting crap in /say or make a complain thread on this or any other forum.

But either way I don't think you read Karbuncle's last post properly. Either that, or your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.

And for the record, of every person I have ever come across that's started whining in /say or in /tell about being outpopped/outclaimed, 90% have been utterly gimp.

[Hanabira]

ive seen amarok popped in less than a second of the ??? popping, which isnt possible with a macro

[Korpg]

ive seen amarok popped in less than a second of the ??? popping, which isnt possible with a macro

Lag on your part by the looks of it.

With good internet I can pop most anything with competition. With Satellite Internet (damn you summer vacation, damn you I say!), there is no way in heck that I can compete against others.

[Zagen]

If you have 10 people spamming the macro, its the faster connection to the servers who wins, there is no skill.
ftfy

As others have said macro better, work those fingers so that spamming a macro is easier.

Also use a Keyboard over a controller (I think you can't spam as fast on controllers at least my friend swapping from 360 controller to keyboard made him beat me on macro popping).

[MarkovChain]

And for the record, of every person I have ever come across that's started whining in /say or in /tell about being outpopped/outclaimed, 90% have been utterly gimp.

For the record anyone farming AF3 is by definition gimp.

[Tamoa]

For the record anyone farming AF3 is by definition gimp.

Still stuck in 2009 with your full usu?

[MarkovChain]

You are a little slow. If you are farming AF3 you don't have have AF3 so you are gimp

[Greatguardian]

ITT: You always farm on the same job that you are farming AF3 for.

ITT2: Being perfect on the job you're using and gimp on a job you are not makes you gimp.

[MarkovChain]

ITT bots don't exist

[Korpg]

You know, I see the reason why BG banned you....but that puts me in the same position as you....which makes me look a lot worse.

Thanks very much Markov for making me look bad.

[scaevola]

pchan used an elaborate trade macro backed by third party tools to claim my heart~

[Hanabira]

Lag on your part by the looks of it.

With good internet I can pop most anything with competition. With Satellite Internet (damn you summer vacation, damn you I say!), there is no way in heck that I can compete against others.

highly unlikely that 8 people in my group all lagged at the same time, 4 times in a row, and outpopped by NA's (no 5 second rule)

[Zagen]

highly unlikely that 8 people in my group all lagged at the same time, 4 times in a row, and outpopped by NA's (no 5 second rule)
Hope you live in Hawaii (assuming they have awesome internet) and the other "NA's" were further east coast. If you connection is just as good as theirs, you're just as fast as them, then the one closer to the servers will always win.

[saevel]

Ok cease the stupid bickering. I've personally seen two NA "trade" bots and one JP one. Wiz himself built one and the code was posted, its not that hard of a thing to do. It exists and has definitely become an issue as the same groups that used to bot Fafnir, KB and everything else are now running around abyssea botting the ??? to build pop sets for Emp weapons and the LV90 upgrades. They'll pop six of a NM in a row which tends to lock that NM out for an hour. If your unlock then it'll be that same group who's decided they want to get a bunch of body +1 seals and will have all six of them plus their six dual-box mules pop in sequence.

Go back to BG if you want to start the "learn to play" nonsense.

[Zagen]

Ok cease the stupid bickering. I've personally seen two NA "trade" bots and one JP one. Wiz himself built one and the code was posted, its not that hard of a thing to do. It exists and has definitely become an issue as the same groups that used to bot Fafnir, KB and everything else are now running around abyssea botting the ??? to build pop sets for Emp weapons and the LV90 upgrades. They'll pop six of a NM in a row which tends to lock that NM out for an hour. If your unlock then it'll be that same group who's decided they want to get a bunch of body +1 seals and will have all six of them plus their six dual-box mules pop in sequence.

Go back to BG if you want to start the "learn to play" nonsense.
Land King bots used a completely different setup. All you had to do was track the NM's ID status change, force target it, and spam a claim method (provoke, flash, stun, etc.). Now you can use this for the lotto pop NMs in Abyssea obviously since they work pretty much the same way or did, I haven't kept up with this stuff since it doesn't concern me anymore. Gold Box Farming 4tw :)

The only people I've ever consistently lost to for ??? pops were in the Asia region in all the times I've been working on Kannagi/Almace with my friend. I actually know some of them and we'd compete in good fun or because there were other people there.

When it came to out popping people on say Briareus before the 3 ??? change all I had to know was press Enter 4-6 times (forgot already) then press Up or Down arrow and Enter again. Again never consistently lost to others doing this, I guess I'm really a bot that would explain it all!

[Luvbunny]

Look, since the developer refuse to add more ??? for other non major but heavily camped NM, they could do a tweak where the ??? will appear 90 seconds after the mob has been popped. So you can have 3-5 of the same NM as long as you keep popping after 90 seconds. This way everyone can get their stuffs done and never have to wait. Or we all can work together with the other groups, their pop items = their items, you may get seals that no one wants but you. Though this is the typical SE respond, they should STOP trying to introduce new things that is poorly thought and implemented (then never bother to fix) and instead focus on improving the things they already have.

[Korpg]

You know, you can't see if it is poorly thought out and implemented until you introduce it to the world.

Somebody's version of a great idea could be another person's (or society's) idea of a failure, but then again, it could not.

See: 8 track tapes vs. Cassettes.

[Luvbunny]

True, but SE developer do have the option to fix a poorly implemented additions. And as you can see, even the players have tons of suggestion and feedback on how to make it better for most. Though SE seems to be lacking direction and leader, and instead of focus to fix what they already introduced, they do crap stuffs. They can easily tweak some of the stats to garbage items and armors, make some of the most popular armors pre-abysea somewhat current, even with adding a few small tweaks to make them somewhat decent but not better than the newer stuffs. So many things they can do to ease the gameplay and exploration, but you know, they just sit idle, not doing much. Instead they focus more on that sinking Titanic that is FF14... just let it burns.

[Greatguardian]

It's not the devs who are directionless, it is the playerbase as a whole. The Devs have a clear direction that they are taking the game, and its jobs, in. It is only the playerbase that runs around like a chicken with its head cut off, unable to agree on even the most basic of things.

Herp derp Abyssea leeching is/isn't cheating. Herp derp SMN needs/doesn't-need a charge system/to melee. Herp derp PLD needs Defensive/Offensive/Cover/Enmity buffs. Herp derp Red Mage needs more sword skills/Magic prowess. Herp derp Linkshells need/don't need extra policing because people are mean. Herp derp trade bots are everywhere/are barely used.

For the record, the FFXI Devs have nothing to do with FFXIV. It is not splitting anyone's personal attention.

[Luvbunny]

Hah ha, are you serious Guardian? The devs have been directionless for a lot while now. They are now somewhat faster to respond as a whole but in the past, they are not exactly been very communicative. The FF11 team lost their best game director who is now leading FF14, the same person who give us Abysea, which currently, still THE BEST addition to the game hands down. Now that he is gone, the latest addition are your usual crap, Voidwatch = Walk of Echoes, crap stuffs most player do not even bother to do because the rewards do not justify the time spent.

[Greatguardian]

Really? Some examples, then? So far they've seemed quite clear in their intentions. Make players stronger. Make specialized jobs more specialized. After Abyssea, add harder content that makes use of those specialized, beefed up jobs.

The only problem I see with Voidwatch is the reward.

[Luvbunny]

They are a bit slow in fixing things. Campaign was a great idea, but have not been updated. A lot of the campaign style bcnm requires stuff that is impossible to have now. Walk of Echoes is nice idea, but again, poorly implemented. Same can be said to Voidwatch. Ground of Valor is nice, but not quite well implemented - even FoV could use more tweaking to make it on par with Abysea. I wish the same guy who gave us Abysea is still the director for FF11, he single handedly changed the game and make it better. The direction should be on fixing what we currently have and further improvement instead of adding new things that they dont even bother to fix in the long run. There are reasons when you hear a lot of feedback on stuffs, or lack of player respond to that said content. Voidwatch is a great example. They seem to want to fix it, but for how long and how far, we will have to see.

[saevel]

When I said I've seen them I mean I've literally seen the program with the options to claim trade the ???.
This shows you have no clue how FFXI treats objects. There is no difference between Fafnir and a ??? engine wise, the both objects with an associated ID number to them. Even if their not "up" their still there and your client is still receiving the updates telling you were the ID's are, you simply can't target them. Once they become "active" you see Fafnir poping, or a ??? becoming target-able, either way its the same server side. The bots just have it so that they execute the trade, even multiple item trades automatically upon then ID for the ??? becoming live. They don't need to open a window, press enter or otherwise interact with the world, it is simply a single network packet they send saying already you've traded it.

They exist and are being used, pull the blinders off.

[Zagen]

When I said I've seen them I mean I've literally seen the program with the options to claim trade the ???.
This shows you have no clue how FFXI treats objects. There is no difference between Fafnir and a ??? engine wise, the both objects with an associated ID number to them. Even if their not "up" their still there and your client is still receiving the updates telling you were the ID's are, you simply can't target them. Once they become "active" you see Fafnir poping, or a ??? becoming target-able, either way its the same server side. The bots just have it so that they execute the trade, even multiple item trades automatically upon then ID for the ??? becoming live. They don't need to open a window, press enter or otherwise interact with the world, it is simply a single network packet they send saying already you've traded it.

They exist and are being used, pull the blinders off.
Just because the ??? follow the same mechanics for popping doesn't mean the same bots used in the past for land kings could be used on them...

If you've seen them then why not post the links to where you've seen them? It would be of even greater benefit on the official forums as SE would definitely see the links and work on taking action against the creators and or finding ways to change the mechanics in the game just like they did for VNMs

[MarkovChain]

You are too naive.

[Bumbeen]

I wish the same guy who gave us Abysea is still the director for FF11

the guy that designed abyssea is the current director of ff11

[Chocobits]

I was under the impression we no longer cared about bots because this game is so easy that anyone using bots should be laughed at?