About Fencer . . .

[Tamarsamar]

Why don't Red Mages have it yet?

I'm just saying . . .

[Kristal]

RDM doesn't get Fencer because it is the job the trait is named after.
Similarly, RDM doesn't get elemental sword weaponskills because they already get elemental sword enhancement spell damage...

Yes, that doesn't make sense either, but neither does PUP on Hope Staff.

The devs have a very hard time wrapping their heads around multi-purpose jobs that have been repurposed in the past. So you get weird stuff like this. Or job 'fixes' on 'issues' 6 years old...

[Neisan_Quetz]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9305-Rename-job-trait-Fencer

[Kristal]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9305-Rename-job-trait-Fencer

That thread is about renaming the trait so RDMs don't keep coming to the fora asking why RDM can't get it :D
This thread (and several like it) is about giving RDM the trait, since it's named after RDM.

[Ihnako]

I didn't knew RDM is a fencer since fencing is a certain combat style.
Deciding on what is written in ffxiclopedia the devs seems to have in mind that you have to be specialized in a certain way of fighting.
RDM doesn't rely that heavily on it's melee skills since he could use magic in addition.
Same goes for PLD - but I think SE had in mind that a PLD would sub WAR
BST and BRD also get the jobtrait but only at an initial level. Keep in mind those jobs have different playstyle and different roles in a party.

[Glamdring]

disregarding the fact just about everyone dual wields now or uses a 2-handed staff or soething and the trait goes almost completely unused...

[Tamarsamar]

disregarding the fact just about everyone dual wields now or uses a 2-handed staff or soething and the trait goes almost completely unused...

If you're using a sub for EX Sword Weapon Skills (like Sanguine Blade), you aren't Dual Wielding. While one of those subs does also grant Fencer, I know quite a few Red Mages who prefer playing with /DRK, and I personally take a liking to /PLD; the point is that the styled Duelists, Estoqueurs, and Fencers of the game shouldn't have to sub something just to get such an appropriately named trait!

We do, however, because apparently the devs just love to troll us . . . how else do you explain BARD getting it, but not us?!?

ADD: look at it this way: Warriors get Fencer before anybody else, and all stupid weapon skill triggers aside, when are they ever going to not be using a Great Axe?

[Glamdring]

I was speaking as both a bst and a brd (the jobs that get fencer), these days it's VERY rare for me not to DW axes, even if I do love my tatami shield. on my bard I'm using elemental staves if /mage, or DW daggers if /nin or /dnc (or /bst, yup). Shields just don't enter into the picture no more

[Neisan_Quetz]

That thread is about renaming the trait so RDMs don't keep coming to the fora asking why RDM can't get it :D
This thread (and several like it) is about giving RDM the trait, since it's named after RDM.

The trait isn't named after the job and Rdm doesn't need it, so they're both useless threads.

[Raksha]

The trait isn't named after the job and Rdm doesn't need it, so they're both useless threads.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/13423/fencers-earring

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/13290/fencers-ring

Seems kind of weird RDM doesnt get it. Probably wouldn't be very useful anyway, but some peole do love their melee RDM.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If they cared about melee Rdm they wouldn't ask for a JT that's not even useful for the jobs that do get it, much less Rdm.

[Tamarsamar]

All Red Mages are concerned about is that fact that it's a spit in the face to make a job trait that's called Fencer, and then proceed to not give it to us.

Heck, they gave it to Bards, for crying out loud. How much more insulting can you get?

ADD: Not saying that the Job Trait in and of itself isn't that impressive, and hopelessly fails at what it was designed to do (that is, give incentive for not Dual Wielding for one-handed weapons), and I would even argue that it should be buffed in that department. At least give it natively to the fencing job first, however.

I'd personally find it more useful than Shield Mastery, at any rate . . .

[Neisan_Quetz]

No, not all red mages are concerned about not getting a fairly useless job trait.

So because we already have 2 fairly useless job traits they should tack on one more in the hope it gets better down the road? Uh, no.

[Ihnako]

RDM isn't a pure/solid fencer.
You'r just mislead by SE's naming policy.

The WAR isn't a razor. ;p

[Legomike]

this is somewhat off topic but
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Rune_Chopper
plenty of stuff that could be changed for the better

[Louispv]

No, what they need to do is either double the trait's potency, or make it work while Dual Wielding. There's no reason to want a trait you will never use, since any meleeing RDM that's not dual wielding is losing half (or more) of their enspell damage, and getting TP slower, thereby making them a terrible DD.

Then you can wish for it. You'd be better off asking for occult acumen, it'd help you DD better.

[Ihnako]

I don't think that the potency is to low nor should it made availabe for dual wielding.
The job trait is good the way it is right now. SE had in mind that those WARs (that also have a shield skill) should be rewarted for using a shield and take the role of a tank who not rely on shadows or pure damage. And depending on what weapon you use it's quiet interesting.
Knowing what the job trait is doing a WAR could come to the conclusion that you should use sword/shield with Sanguine Blade or any other sword ws. But Sanguine Blade would profit the most.

[Coldbrand]

It'd probably be nice for almace RDMs.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

RDM can get native Fencer the day they get native Vorpal Blade.

Fencer is basically a bribe to try to get certain jobs to use a shield (particularly in the blind hope that, somewhere, a WAR with a shield will get the idea that they can tank). RDMs already equip shields almost as often as PLDs, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm actually a little surprised they didn't give it to THF.

[Rorrick]

I'm always amused when I'm reminded of Fencer's existence, because the only job that would get any practical use out of it doesn't get access to it.

[Ihnako]

I'm always amused when I'm reminded of Fencer's existence, because the only job that would get any practical use out of it doesn't get access to it.
Paladin? That's what I was thinking too...

[Neisan_Quetz]

Clearly it's part of Se's ploy to force Pld to /war.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Clearly it's part of Se's ploy to force Pld to /war.

Provoke wasn't a big enough hint?

[Neisan_Quetz]

Provoke is mostly useless so no.

[Coldbrand]

Forget Red Mages, I wish Blue Mage had this. The job has ALWAYS been depicted as only using one sword and nothing else. Bums me out having to dual wield like every other non-two hander.