[dev1007] Voidwatch: Obtaining Spoils

[Kuraudo]

I'm very disappointed with the way the spoil system works. I was hoping that once a particular player obtains a rare/ex item from the riftworn pyxis then that would mean that that particular player's riftworn pyxis will no longer have the chance to spawn that said rare/ex item again and that it would have a chance to spawn in some other player's riftworn pyxis.

Would it be possible to add an option to move a rare/ex item from the riftworn pyxis to a loot pool? It's very disheartening working so hard to get max spectral alignment and then seeing an item that's wanted by many go to the floor due to a player's riftworn pyxis spawning an item they already have. :(

[starfxcker000]

The drop rate in Voidwatch is absolutely horrendous, even with capped spectral alignment, which is no easy task. It's really insulting that the same rare item can go to the same person twice and they can't even give it to someone who does want it, let alone pull it out of the chest.

[ThaiChi]

I think we've been put on a path of having control over the drops with the advent of weakness triggering system. I don't see why we can't exert a degree of control in our drops for voidwatch. Even with full lights the most common drops end up being crafting items and potions that people sell to NPCs anyway. I'm glad that at least when we do full white lights the Key Item is a guaranteed drop otherwise I wouldn't seek to partake in this event whatsoever.

[Karbuncle]

I really like how this system rewards every player differently, so you're not fighting over 1 loot pool.

But i'm 100% for the OPs idea. There should be an option to add your drops to the Treasure Pool. nothing more annoying than getting a drop you already have and it goes to waste, while your friend needs the item.

Please SE, consider adding this.

[Manque]

Perhaps there already exists a way within the voidwatch system for a single player to receive said spoils more easily?

Has anyone tried being the only one trading cells or staggering before? I know it would be lame if that was the case, but I was wondering what has been tried/not tried. I am not aware of such tests, but if they've been done i'd appreciate a linky!

[Camate]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

[Alhanelem]

Well Camate, the issue players have is that Person A got item X that he didn't need, and person B did need item X but got item Y instead. Items X and Y are rare/ex, so both players get stuck with things they don't want an no one is happy. Sure, you don't immediately know what other people got, but of course people are going to talk about their drops, right? The last thing anyone wants to hear is that someone else got something you wanted.

[Futan]

They want it that way, Alhanelem. It'll take longer to get what you want therefore you'll be doing it longer.

[Alhanelem]

Most people treat Voidwatch battles like BCNMs, because that's essentially what they are, just with a few fancy features. They should drop items in the same manner as BCNMs.
Always getting stuff isn't cool if you only get stuff you don't want.

Events should be built to take longer by having a lot of content, not by having to battle the random number generator.

[Garota]

Yeah, the compensation is more trash synthesis items. Another example... My buddy is our LS's Token PUP, anything PUP, he's got it or working on getting it. What am I supposed to do when I obtain a Deluxe Animator from Akupara? If we fight it and just ends up landing in my box? Easy... I toss it... Not only do I not have PUP leveled, but I also doubt I'll be leveling it. Basically the same thing Alhanelem said. I mean, I have enjoyed playing Voidwatch, but the loot system is complete garbage... Thanks anyway I guess, for letting us know we're stuck with this terrible loot system.

[Karbuncle]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

I personally really do love this sytem. But the problem is doing say, the same NM ~20 times hoping to get your friend a R/EX Item... and you've gotten and tossed 10 of them but he hasn't gotten one yet. (exaggerating the numbers obv D:)

This is incredibly frustrating. I love the event is designed to reward everyone, but maybe players should also have the choice to give their drops to someone. I don't like losing an item someone needs because i have one.

... now, I know where you're worried. You're worried if they add this, some groups might impose a rule you put your stuff into the pool so people can lot it... ruining the whole "individual reward" aspect of Voidwatch...

Oh well, I guess its not a huge catastrophe.

[Alhanelem]

I suppose its basically impossible to have your cake and eat it too.

This system does have the advantage of no fighting and drama over drops, it just sucks to get something you don't want that someone else does and not be able to give it to them.


What am I supposed to do when I obtain a Deluxe Animator from Akupara? The deluxe animator is a false reward. It's inferior to the animator +1. Thus, PUP or no PUP, you're going to throw it away.

[Luvbunny]

You know, this should have an easier fix. Make the item on chest drop where you have options to add to treasure poll. So you take what you want, and the rest put it on treasure pool. Oh yeah... no they will not and refuse to do this because... OMG that would mean there is no timesink for you... so typical SE. In the past they came up with many interesting ideas, but FAIL big time in implementation, then abandoned said ideas and never bother to adjust or fix it. Voidwatch seems to be destined to go down this path. To the developers, please, STOP adding new things if you never intend to fix it. DO FOCUS on tweaking, adjust and fix things you have now that is popular and working, and make sure it does get better.

[Raksha]

I suppose its basically impossible to have your cake and eat it too.


They could remove the ra/ex tags, then you can have all the cake you can afford, and eat as much of it as you like.

[Kuraudo]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

Obtaining a Peridot and a Pro Ether +1 for the fight is not considered compensation in my book for the annoyance of getting max spectral alignment.

Well if you're not planning to change this treasure pool problem then I guess we'll have to hope that the new update you have in store for us is actually good and not garbage. Don't let us down! :(

[Lushipur]

an easy fix could be to add a voidwatch point system. then hav a npc that sell the good item for an insane amount of point.

so you keep the timesink but have all ppl happy too.

or add to the drop list some kind of spoil item that can be traded to a npc for an item of your choosing.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.But, you have also already proven that you are capable of making it so you can optionaly add the contents of chests to the treasure pool and people are saying that they would like this to be an option.

[Kristal]

There is a very easy way to fix the problem: remove the EX flag, but don't add it to the AH. This way, people can bazaar unusable stuff or trade it away.

Not that I know any PUP that actually wants the Deluxe Animator.. unless there is an undiscovered hidden effect that actually beats Animator +1. Few exceptions aside, Voidwatch rewards are barely a side-grade to lvl 75 gear, let alone 90...

[Squeejee]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.


I wouldn't mind this system so much if it wasn't the only place you can get one of only four animators. None of the other Voidwatch equipment people are screaming about wanting but not getting is irreplaceable.

[Nynja]

Is there any reason why SE went with this ludicrous drop system instead of a points system (assault / einherjar) for the rare/ex loot? If the intentions were to combat RMT, and people selling gear...I guess it worked, but it also prevented a lot of people from doing the event. I cant speak for everyone, but I have no intention of devoting time to something where the distribution of loot is determined by the games random number generator instead of the group. I'd probably rage quit and just up and delete my characters if I did a VW run and the war r/e item popped on my mule's acct (who doesnt have war lvled), and then on my main I got a strendu ring (who has, but never uses, mage jobs).

A system similar to Assault/Einherjar with a point system would equally combat RMT/item selling, and leave less people upset because everyone in their LS got a Deluxe Animator except for the resident pup.

[Erecia]

I understand why Voidwatch's loot system was designed how it is. That doesn't stop it from being awful in practice.

I don't have any other input other than to say that it basically doesn't matter what loot the devs add to Voidwatch: the loot distribution system alone (never mind the actual difficulty of battle) will ensure I stay far, far away.

[Rearden]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

No one ever receives anything as compensation, this is a terrible system. If someone does get something, half of the time it can't even be used by that person. What is your answer to this, that that person needs to level another job just to have "received compensation?"

This needs to get fixed.

[saevel]

The current system would be fine but ONLY if drop rates would be increased. Did the windy path twice the other day (had to swap people out for wins so every fight was fought twice), we capped lights on most fights, and the stuff that I got? Absolutely 0 items, all junk crafting stuff. One of our NIN's who had already received the HQ R/EX WAR/PLD/ect.. harness ... received it again and could do nothing about it. The only good item of the entire night, and it was thrown away.

The drop rates would be acceptable provided you could trade / exchange gear, otherwise they need to increase those drop rates so that you get ~something~. What it's really seeming like is you have a limited number of item slots and that their usually filled with crafting junk before the good stuff even has a chance to drop.

[Anucris]

Eh I like the system. Because If someone else wants it but it ends up in my casket I dont have to wait my turn so to speak. But it would be nice to be able to take said item or put in tp as in the op's case. Otherwise it's a great system. What this system really needs is more good stuff. King pops in lower tiers and hq king pops in the big boy fights would be cool since so many pple r having teouble with king drops.

[Thanotos]

and if you were able to trade(removing ex), add to treasure pool, etc.... everyone would complete the said content very quickly, would you really continue do play such a hassle of content after everyone got their drops? i would assume most wouldn't and i am sure VW loot system it to keep those subscription fees in tact, esp. since FFXIV is still non-chargable, they have pretty much dug themselves a huge hole, and their only saving grace right now is to keep FFXI alive, till they finish the still much needed overall on FFXIV, I would almost think it would be better to scrap that game altogether, its been almost a year (maybe over a year, don't remember the release after beta) and they have made absolutely no money off it rather than the initial cost, which if you take into account the amount of resources they have put into trying to fix the game, that overrides any amount of sales they have made thus far. anyways kinda off on another tangent.

[Elanabelle]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards

Great concept!



we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.
To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a Voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

Failed implementation!

If you're bent on not allowing Voidwatch loot to be sent to the Treasure Pool, then that's fine, but you still need to development and implement a better Rewards system than what is currently in FFXI.

As an alternative, please establish an NPC system where the NPC will accept Rare/Ex Voidwatch drops in exchange for "credits". Said "credits" could then be used to purchase other Rare/Ex Voidwatch loot. For example, a Player could trade 3 Strendu Rings to the NPC, and then use the "credits" received to acquire a Faz. Radiant Mail.

That's just one suggestion, but something like this needs to happen. Don't waste an opportunity for FFXI to have an excellent high-quality endgame event that provides BOTH difficulty/challenge AND a loot/rewards system that's actually rewarding.

[Karbuncle]

Great concept!



Failed implementation!

If you're bent on not allowing Voidwatch loot to be sent to the Treasure Pool, then that's fine, but you still need to development and implement a better Rewards system than what is currently in FFXI.

As an alternative, please establish an NPC system where the NPC will accept Rare/Ex Voidwatch drops in exchange for "credits". Said "credits" could then be used to purchase other Rare/Ex Voidwatch loot. For example, a Player could trade 3 Strendu Rings to the NPC, and then use the "credits" received to acquire a Faz. Radiant Mail.

That's just one suggestion, but something like this needs to happen. Don't waste an opportunity for FFXI to have an excellent high-quality endgame event that provides BOTH difficulty/challenge AND a loot/rewards system that's actually rewarding.

The idea of a point system by trading other r/ex items isn't too bad. Though, its rather obvious the tediously low drop rates were too keep us doing this thing for quite some time.

If they handed us every single drop like Abyssea did, The game would become boring a lot quicker. Rather most people think it or not the goals, rather it be getting gears or what have you is what generally keeps people playing, even after going 0/40+, They'll still want that darn armor, and probably continue camping it.

So if they introduced a "Point" system it'd probably be something like"


30 Strendu Rings for enough points for Faz. Radiant Mail

They realistically want you to spend as much time as possible on these events, because while they try their best, its still hard to continually release content to keep us entertained. So instead of going the "Lots of shit with easy to obtain drops" route, They've decided to take the "Difficult foes with low drop rates" path to buy them time to create new events and what not.


tl:dr the drop rates are shit because they need to keep us busy to buy them time to create more content.

Edit: That and I'm almost positive while designing this event some idiot said "If 18 people are all getting a drop pool, that means there 18 chances to get the drop, its multiplying their odds by 18x! So we need to nerf the drop rate to compensate for this"

and thus every single drop in voidwatch is under 2% rate even with 500% Light.

[Elanabelle]

The idea of a point system by trading other r/ex items isn't too bad. Though, its rather obvious the tediously low drop rates were too keep us doing this thing for quite some time.
tl:dr the drop rates are shit because they need to keep us busy to buy them time to create more content.

Edit: That and I'm almost positive while designing this event some idiot said "If 18 people are all getting a drop pool, that means there 18 chances to get the drop, its multiplying their odds by 18x! So we need to nerf the drop rate to compensate for this"

and thus every single drop in voidwatch is under 2% rate even with 500% Light.

I'd very much like to see the Developer Staff or Representative respond to these allegations.

If Karbuncle's assessment is accurate, then S-E is basically dooming Voidwatch's potential popularity going forward.

I'd like to think Karbuncle is wrong, and that S-E is willing to acknowledge that there are opportunities to make Voidwatch more satisfying to the playerbase.

Karbuncle (correctly) pointed out that developers can take:
A. a "tons of potential loot with easy acquisition" route, or,
B. a "really difficult battles with really low chance for loot" approach.

However, why can't we instead all have what most of us really want the most:
C. "really difficult battles with a medium-to-good chance for loot" ?

[Nynja]

its ok ur gettin ur 2k petrified log brah

[Creelo]

Anyone who's familiar with Voidwatch (that includes you, Cam) knows the treasure distribution system is shit. And the "rewards" that everyone receives in the end, even with full lights and the whole sha-bang, are almost always gonna be Logs, Ingots, Potions, and Beastcoins. This, coupled with the fact that fights are rather challenging for most groups and require a fair number of people, is greatly deterring people from even doing Voidwatch.

We know it'd be possible for the dev team to implement an "Add spoils to treasure pool" option, yet they won't because SE wants to drag us all out for as long as possible with this shit system. But of course, hypothetically, 3 years down the road SE will decide to "revise old content" and add this "Add spoils to treasure pool" option in VW.

It's bullshit. It's shady. And it's annoying. Please throw us a bone here. x.x We promise it wouldn't ruin Voidwatch.

[Ash]

Since the voidwatch reward system was set up so that each player could receive their own individual rewards, we have no plans to add a feature that allows you to place the rewards into the treasure pool.

To be a bit more specific, this system is different than the original treasure system so that no matter how many players you have participating in a voidwatch battle, as long as you succeed, you will always be able to receive something as compensation.

You know camate has an awesome job, he gets to rain on everybody's parade on a daily basis.

Seriously what is that guy smoking to think a petrified log and a mythril ingot is "compensation" for a t4 fight?(yes with capped lights)

[Darkvalkyr]

Voidwatch is a system that cripples LSes of friends playing with each other and helping each other out.

It works on pick up groups and slightly less on endgame heavy shells, but on shells that revolve on players helping each other and being friendly, this sort of drop system completely kills that 'help each other out' aspect.

[Yakamo]

I agree, VW is here to waste as much time as possible so that SE can fix other issues/add new things while keeping us busy.

What kills me is we're meant to spend cruor on these cells that supposedly increases the drop rate of items (at least the ruby ones), but with or without the cells, the drop rate is just as bad. I'm sure I'm not the only one to waste a ton of cruor on these things before now where I'm just saving them for the T3s and up, and hoping against hope it gets me something. Now, I have gotten some of the rarer pieces from VW, but I can't honestly tell if the cells had anything to do with it.

I've pretty much given up on Walk of Echoes, which has the same crappy loot system. At least VW is more fun and challenging, so it's still worth to do....but really, after you've seen the same person get his fifth Strendu Ring or Ganesha's Mala, and you're still getting those logs and ingots....let's just say no one feels "compensated" for anything.

[Defiledsickness]

well i can say that if you have an LS that does VW 2days a week, about 6-9 fights each day, you can obtain almost everything.

this is what my LS does and most of the members who have decent attendance seem to have gotten most of the rewards. i've only gotten about 3 items (1 i sold, another i muled, last i use rarely) but im not able to make every event.

it seems like they wanted a system as difficult as obtaining a relic or mythic weapon. but using /random instead of /hours. i do hate this system very much, but w/e.

[Treefiddy]

I totally agree with being able to put your own loot into the treasure pool. SE, you had the beginnings of a good idea by having everyone get their own individual drops from the chests, but you totally dropped the ball by not allowing us to put stuff we don't want into the treasure pool. Players getting the same ra/ex twice is just ridiculous. If you're going to allow that to happen then you need to allow that player to put it into the pool where someone else can benefit and not feel cheated yet again by a VW fight. The drop rates are terrible as it is. Using cells to boost quality of drops is a joke. You are destroying everyone's cruor supply by charging 3k cruor for ONE cell that doesn't help one bit on drops. That's 9k cruor per fight, and that's only to raise ONE color! I mean, we're spending enough cruor already upgrading atmacites. Give us a break here. I can see why people don't wanna do VW. It takes a lot of time and cruor to do and you have maybe a 1% chance of getting any of the rare drops. I can't even count have many Voidwroughts we've done, and only ONE radiant has dropped for someone. That's kind of ridiculous. Please adjust the drop system and drop rates SE. Also, can we get cheaper cells please? If you want VW to be successful then it has to be done.

[Winrie]

Inb4 "the cells used to enhance lights for item drops in voidwatch were found to not be applying their effects as intended" or "item drop rates out of voidwatch chests were lower than intended" or "spectral alignment effects from players were not applying drop rate enhancements as intended"

[MDenham]

You are destroying everyone's cruor supply by charging 3k cruor for ONE cell that doesn't help one bit on drops. That's 9k cruor per fight, and that's only to raise ONE color! I mean, we're spending enough cruor already upgrading atmacites.I see it hasn't occurred to you that this is kind of the point: plenty of people had tens of millions of cruor, and nothing to spend it on.

Voidwatch is intended to be a cruor sink, just like Dynamis, Limbus, and Einherjar used to be gil sinks.

[Alkimi]

As many people have mentioned the system is OK at best but the drop rate is beyond awful. Our linkshell has killed maybe 50 'final tier' voidwatch NMs now, all with capped or close to capped lights and we've mustered a grand total of zero body pieces.

[saevel]

You actually have less then 1% chance of a body dropping. Our shell did a ton of T4's and we always get 400%+ (so capped for anyone who traded) on red / blue lights, and a grand total of 2 bodys (same person both times, who didn't even trade cells) so far. 18 people at 20+ runs = 360 loot pools, 2 bodies 2/360 = 0.0055 * 100 = 0.55% drop rate.

Think about that, half a percent drop rate. It's designed as a time sink only, your supposed to bash yourself against these fights over and over again for the next 6 months, then they release next update and more VWNM. You bash yourself against those for another 6 months before they have to come up with "something" for you to do. It's a delaying tactic to give them another year to come up with a real end game system.

[Creelo]

Would love an update from the community reps/dev team on this Voidwatch matter. :/

Players are obviously upset with the system, yet their discontent is largely ignored...

[Tamoa]

In the same amount of T3 jeuno/zilart and T4 sandy/bastok/windy vwnm fights, I have seen one friend get 4 different bodies, another got 3 ace's mail on 2 characters, neither can equip it. Me, I got nothing. It really is very very discouraging.

[Elanabelle]

Hello! Community Developer Rep? Do you see a consistent trend here in the last dozen or so comments?

Care to respond? Would be appreciated.

[Atomic_Skull]

What kills me is we're meant to spend cruor on these cells that supposedly increases the drop rate of items

The conquest point price for cells needs to be severely reduced. 2000 CP per cell is ridiculous.

[Kristal]

Hello! Community Developer Rep? Do you see a consistent trend here in the last dozen or so comments?

Care to respond? Would be appreciated.

He already responded.

What really should be done, is to analyze the actual droprate on items and their distribution.
If the same very rare(1%) EX item always drops to the same person consistently on x runs, there might be a problem with said distribution, but we'd need hard numbers for a considerable number of fights, not the eyeball numbers and teasetalk that's going on right now. (/p Oh look, another (enter rare item) I don't need. )

[Alderin]

As much as I agree how nice it would be to be able to give your friends the 15x body pieces you have got in the chest when your friend hasn't seen one - I agree with SE's decision to be quite honest.

Lets add up how much loot gets dropped in voidwatch per fight shall we? Capped lights drop (5? or 6?) items (lets go with 5). Multiply that by 18 people is about 90 things. Although these "things" might just be synth mats - you might get lucky with a body or 2 here and there, to a lucky person - however Voidwatch rewards far exceed any other event in the game in this respect - due to the sheer quantity of items that drop.

Just cap your lights - and keep on grinding. Gear isn't meant to be given to you on a silver platter in this game.

[Camate]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

[Kalilla]

<.>.......

[Byrth]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

Sorry Camate, the Dev team is wrong about this. Being unable to move individual items to the alliance loot pool is the single largest issue with this system. If you changed it to that, the system would be fine even with its atrocious drop rates.

Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

No it's not where the problem lies, but it is the simplest fix.

[Quetzacoatl]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

. . .

SO...The Development Team insists that we keep getting crap drops, which even cannot be ADDED TO SPOILS...but they're going to make the fights shorter, thus, reducing the amount of time to proc enemy weaknesses, which leaves very little time for DDs to deal damage, resulting in make the fights THAT MUCH HARDER!? Oh, and we have to wait for the predictable "expansion of this content to raise the drop rates/lower NM respawn times so that they don't lose players!" Not to mention, players getting the same drop they have had before, while other players have yet to see their own good drops, will inhibit group progress even further to artificially increase the game's time sink!

That's it. I'm done. I'm done making suggestions and feedback. I've lost faith in the development team when it comes to making ANY reasonable changes. This is truly outrageous. I guess I'll spend my last time as a test server applicant to test out what I should use for my upcoming Almace for my RDM and BLU, and expand upon my Torcleaver sets.

Camate, I humbly respect your efforts in playing the messenger. I just think whatever Square is thinking is just flat-out wrong. How is it that "add to spoils" could not make things for Voidwatch any better? Whatever the answer is, we probably won't ever know, now that the conclusion is final.

[Babekeke]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

The only way to reduce the overall length of the battle, is to remove the proc system, or reduce the amount of procs required to cap.
Otherwise, harder battles and less time to proc the mob = noone's going to bother.
Sorry, but as Tupac said, "that's just the way it is".

[Vold]

.................

Orz

[Rearden]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

Terrible. Why even post that shit.

[Nynja]

Alright, lets be honest, SE isnt going to change the VW loot pool distribution, they're pretty adamant about it, its not gonna chance. Perhaps we could look to a solution where X player is getting 3 rare/ex bodies in 4 runs, and players A-F have yet to see one? Someone suggested on "that cesspool of bots and bots" forum a check is done where if player X already has a rare/ex item, and one is supposed to load in their chest, it will (behind the scenes) move to someone elses chest who doesn't have one of the item already.

[Hashmalum]

The only way to reduce the overall length of the battle, is to remove the proc system, or reduce the amount of procs required to cap.
Otherwise, harder battles and less time to proc the mob = noone's going to bother.
Sorry, but as Tupac said, "that's just the way it is".Or make it easier to proc by removing some weakness triggers (Modus Veritas and the merit spells are particularly stupid).

[Vold]

Maybe they don't mean making the fights shorter time wise, but with less procs.

Lol though at the conclusion that we're upset with the length of encounters. I guess encounters that are cut in half time wise = crappy drop rates are okay in our eyes. Jeez where do they get these ideas. Sure ain't from the NAs. Who here would complain less if you got the same exact system minus less time being wasted raise your hands.

I rather my time be sinked with lengthy encounters with high drop rates than doing a bunch of short encounters with low drop rates. That's just me, though.

[Xellith]

Well SE just confirmed that voidwatch is not worth the time to do anymore. Why do we play this game again? Oh wait its because FFXIV fails also. I swear this dev team has no idea what it is the players want. We ask for something and we get ignored or something that's not what we even wanted. The drop system fails. Everyone agrees with that. The evidence points to that being the case. Camate go back to those dev team people and tell them that we are not impressed. If making blatantly broken features in a game is how they expect to keep people entertained then they are sorely mistaken. Hell that 3 dollar Eve online I got looks like its going to get more playtime.

[Defiledsickness]

voidwatch is sh** and if it wasnt for a 'few' accessories, no one would do it. sure there's bodies and weapons that are cool, but not very practical or useful. not worth the 0.00001% drop rates even with full triggers.

20 jobs, 18man allies, and losing even more then 2job's procs because you need 3blm for stun and 2pld to tank.

VW only challange was killing the nms, after you do that once its just annoying.

[Rearden]

Alright, lets be honest, SE isnt going to change the VW loot pool distribution, they're pretty adamant about it, its not gonna chance. Perhaps we could look to a solution where X player is getting 3 rare/ex bodies in 4 runs, and players A-F have yet to see one? Someone suggested on "that cesspool of bots and bots" forum a check is done where if player X already has a rare/ex item, and one is supposed to load in their chest, it will (behind the scenes) move to someone elses chest who doesn't have one of the item already.
No. If everyone checks except the person who is getting the body and he has it, then it loads to no one. This explanation is no different than the Bercus interviews in terms of total amount of tard happening from the DEVs.

[Tamoa]

Poor Camate, having to give us news like that.

But yeah - that is a terrible terrible "fix" to voidwatch. The nms don't need to be easier to proc and/or kill. 30 minutes is fine, battle length doesn't need to be shortened. Upping drop rates isn't going to help our frustration at all when the same player keeps getting the same ra/ex item.

If you can't give us the add to treasure pool option, then at least do something to stop the same ra/ex item loading in the same person's chest multiple times.

[Rearden]

Yeah, like adding it to the pool.

[Xellith]

FFXIV getting bells and whistles and we are getting shafted - yet again.

[Tamoa]

Yeah, like adding it to the pool.

I totally agree but you know...:



It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.


SE SAID NO!... (and they are oh-so-wrong in thinking that's "not where the main crux of the problem lies".)

[HimuraKenshyn]

hmmm. make incredible improvements in ffxiv and now slowly convert ffxi back to the days of old and let it die maybe that's the plan........

It's so simple to make drops that can be exchanged at a NPC for something worth while instead of letting things just drop to the floor.

[Insaniac]

It's 3 kings all over again.

They know no one likes how it works. They just don't care. This 100% garbage, universally hated, worst in the history of MMOs, drop system is in place for one reason. Keep people stuck on this content so they don't have to spend money making more content. The problem is that someone there is too stupid to realize they have gone way too far.

I used to log into these forums to see what exciting new things were happening. Now I log on for new reasons to quit. So nostalgic.

[Yinnyth]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

I must've missed the part where he said existing NMs are going to get harder to kill with pickup groups. You mean the "new chapters" with "tougher challenges"? Yeah, still not seeing any "screw your pickup alliances".

I do however see something which roughly translates as: "No, you can't haz cheezeburger"

[Rearden]

Camate, feel free to revoke my posting privileges because I have nothing nice to say and what we say doesn't matter anyway.

[Quetzacoatl]

Again, truly fucking outrageous that they can't just implement

Add to Treasure Pool

[Babekeke]

Now I log on for new reasons to quit.

/goodbye ^^


Poor Camate, having to give us news like that.

You can't say that! Poor Bayohne will be even more upset if you feel sorry for Camate after giving us bad news after all the grief everyone gave Bayohne :D

[Byrth]

I must've missed the part where he said existing NMs are going to get harder to kill with pickup groups. You mean the "new chapters" with "tougher challenges"? Yeah, still not seeing any "screw your pickup alliances".

I do however see something which roughly translates as: "No, you can't haz cheezeburger"

If you had read the entire post . . .


Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.

Unless they're going to make it take fewer procs to cap out lights, a straight reduction of HP would make it difficult to cap lights without killing the monster on low tier stuff and hard to kill the monster in time with a pickup group on high tier stuff. Not to mention that you risk of forcing them below 50% HP before capping lights. I was in a pickup alliance that beat the joke that is Akvan with only 30 seconds remaining the other day.

[xbobx]

so Voidwatch people are not going to bother with it, also WoE. Going to get boring fast. Hopefully they actually fix salvage etc and not make it stupid which is their current trend.

[Quetzacoatl]

Square's never gonna learn, These forums are just an illusion in thinking that Square will actually consider what the players think this game needs, etc.

[cidbahamut]

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

That is exactly the crux of the problem though.

[uptempo]

It's 3 kings all over again.

They know no one likes how it works.

Speak for yourself champ i for one loved the 3 kings.

[Babekeke]

Speak for yourself champ i for one loved the 3 kings.

I fail to understand how anyone could possibly love the 3 kings, unless you were botting (or in a LS that heavily botted). I went back to camping Simurgh again recently (before I saw the new +18% boots) and that was bad enough for me.

[Nynja]

No. If everyone checks except the person who is getting the body and he has it, then it loads to no one. This explanation is no different than the Bercus interviews in terms of total amount of tard happening from the DEVs.

Sooo you think everyones drops are generated the moment they check the chest? I'm PRETTY sure the game establishes who got what before they examine the chest...

[Rearden]

There are 3 options for VW and really, nothing the equivolent of a slack-jawed yokel of a DEV team comes up with is going to be as good as these 3 options.

1. "Add treasure to pool" - similar to Abyssea chests, your treasure goes into the pool for other people to lot if you do not want it. This option will only apply to items tagged "Rare" or "Rare/Ex"

2. "Point System" - similar to Assaults, Einherjar or even ISP/CP/AN. Rewards are valued at x# per Voidwatch fight. Items are valued another varied number of points. Point are traded for items, and in the case of bodies, points+trophies (similar to Dominion ops) from the specific NM for that body. Example, 20k points + 10 trophies from Voidwrought = Fazhuelo Radiant Mail.

3. "Options" - Before the fight, I select one of two options. "Personal Chest" - Everyone in the alliance gets their own personal chest or "Treasure Pool" - Any Rare-Rare/Ex item (And multiple of each can and should load not just one of each) is placed in a treasure pool to be distributed in whatever way deemed fitting.

In option 3, the PUG are protected and the LS's are protected.

Right now, Voidwatch offers zero reward for a linkshell to do the content. I can't reward any member of my linkshell with what they want because I can't use any sort of lotting system in VW.

We know that the JP like VW because it is easily done in Pick up groups, but that doesn't amend our issues with it and those issues need to be addressed.

Your job (Community Team) is to badger the DEV team until they fix this for us. They can tell you "no" 10,000 times but that is somewhat irrelevant because if your job is to represent us then that's what you need to do. Giving us a bullshit response from them as if we should accept that response is in a word, unacceptable.

[Yinnyth]

If you had read the entire post . . .



Unless they're going to make it take fewer procs to cap out lights, a straight reduction of HP would make it difficult to cap lights without killing the monster on low tier stuff and hard to kill the monster in time with a pickup group on high tier stuff. Not to mention that you risk of forcing them below 50% HP before capping lights. I was in a pickup alliance that beat the joke that is Akvan with only 30 seconds remaining the other day.

You must not have understood mine. My fault there, I suppose.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle.
Yeah, I still don't see any "screw you" in there. You can interpret it many ways... maybe they'll be reducing the amount of time you're allowed to attempt the battle, so people time out faster... maybe (like you seem to believe) they'll be reducing the HP of the mob... maybe they intend to make weakness hints easier to understand... maybe they'll increase the number of weaknesses a mob has.

There are just as many good ways to read into that as bad. You chose to read it as a bad thing because your mind was already made up by the time you hit that point in Camate's post.

[Rearden]

I can only think of one way making the fights shorter would be beneficial and that's if lights cap faster/more lights per stagger. This is SE though, and they said "increased drop rates" which means impossible to cap lights zergs where yeah if you cap them you get items but gl ever capping them.

[Insaniac]

Speak for yourself champ i for one loved the 3 kings.
Obviously there will be exceptions but I don't really understand how you could enjoy standing around for up to 9 hours a day with a good chance of no pay off what so ever. Admittedly though, kings were less stupid than the VW loot system and probably would have slightly more defenders like yourself. At least when you actually claimed a king you were usually gonna at least get an abj. or BB item to sell to some jobber for your LS bank.

[Babekeke]

There are 3 options for VW and really, nothing the equivolent of a slack-jawed yokel of a DEV team comes up with is going to be as good as these 3 options.

1. "Add treasure to pool" - similar to Abyssea chests, your treasure goes into the pool for other people to lot if you do not want it. This option will only apply to items tagged "Rare" or "Rare/Ex"

2. "Point System" - similar to Assaults, Einherjar or even ISP/CP/AN. Rewards are valued at x# per Voidwatch fight. Items are valued another varied number of points. Point are traded for items, and in the case of bodies, points+trophies (similar to Dominion ops) from the specific NM for that body. Example, 20k points + 10 trophies from Voidwrought = Fazhuelo Radiant Mail.

3. "Options" - Before the fight, I select one of two options. "Personal Chest" - Everyone in the alliance gets their own personal chest or "Treasure Pool" - Any Rare-Rare/Ex item (And multiple of each can and should load not just one of each) is placed in a treasure pool to be distributed in whatever way deemed fitting.

In option 3, the PUG are protected and the LS's are protected.

Right now, Voidwatch offers zero reward for a linkshell to do the content. I can't reward any member of my linkshell with what they want because I can't use any sort of lotting system in VW.

We know that the JP like VW because it is easily done in Pick up groups, but that doesn't amend our issues with it and those issues need to be addressed.

Your job (Community Team) is to badger the DEV team until they fix this for us. They can tell you "no" 10,000 times but that is somewhat irrelevant because if your job is to represent us then that's what you need to do. Giving us a bullshit response from them as if we should accept that response is in a word, unacceptable.

Actually, the dev team DID come up with options 1 and 2, they just won't implement them to VW, and from what you say about option 3, you're limiting the rewards to just 10 items, which, unless ONLY the non-synth items go into the pool, you'll hardly get any rewards to share.

I would say in the current system, you have a chance of getting 18(+? can you ge more than 1 decent item in a chest?) non-synth items, but I sincerely doubt it. Has anyone ever gone with a group with more than 10 decent drops?

[Byrth]

You must not have understood mine. My fault there, I suppose.

Yeah, I still don't see any "screw you" in there. You can interpret it many ways... maybe they'll be reducing the amount of time you're allowed to attempt the battle, so people time out faster... maybe (like you seem to believe) they'll be reducing the HP of the mob... maybe they intend to make weakness hints easier to understand... maybe they'll increase the number of weaknesses a mob has.

There are just as many good ways to read into that as bad. You chose to read it as a bad thing because your mind was already made up by the time you hit that point in Camate's post.

You're still viewing the dev team through the rose colored glasses of Abyssea. The dev team of yore didn't make things easier. With very few exceptions, they were dedicated to making things harder.

We can wait until this is implemented and have this discussion again, but even assuming they make only beneficial changes it still doesn't address the primary problem of shit drop rates, large member requirements, and personal chests. What do I care if the fight takes 30 minutes instead of 45? It probably took an hour and a half to form the shout alliance and get everyone to camp, and half of the tards will realize they aren't in Abyssea anymore after two fights/wins and warp back to PJ due to unpredictable dog walking emergencies. One fight later we'll have lost so many people that it's time to either restart the process or just warp and log for the night. The worst part is, I'm generally thankful for it to end.

With better incentives or higher drop rates, member retention wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is, they've followed two big event changes that make way for lowman stuff (Abyssea and Neo-Dynamis) with an event that works best with a full alliance.

[Felren]

These forums just have streamlined the player suggestion/complaints and response.

Instead of complaining about 21-24 Hour HNM/botting and getting crappy adjustments not hitting the problem after years. We now get crappy adjustments not hitting the problem of Voidwatch in months!!!

We now get our views rejected faster! Yeay!

[Rearden]

I specifically stated Rare-Rare/Ex items only for the pool in option 3.

It doesn't matter to me personally if it is limited to 10 items, because those 10 items can go to the people who want them in my linkshell - not to people who don't want them (repeatedly) or mules, whatever. I can't say hey guys we are doing Voidwatch to farm bodies again if the only bodies we've got go to the same people who don't need them or don't drop at all in tens-hundreds of fights.

I'm not worried about losing members because they don't get items, I'm worried that I can't reward members for their work properly.

[Nynja]

if you want SE to make a change...quit, otherwise youre just blowin smoke. Going "CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT CHANGE IT" wont make them change it.

They've already said they wont budge on an add to treasure pool option, stop saying "fk you, do it", because youre not helping your case.

[Yinnyth]

You're still viewing the dev team through the rose colored glasses of Abyssea. The dev team of yore didn't make things easier. With very few exceptions, they were dedicated to making things harder.

We can wait until this is implemented and have this discussion again, but even assuming they make only beneficial changes it still doesn't address the primary problem of shit drop rates, large member requirements, and personal chests. What do I care if the fight takes 30 minutes instead of 45? It probably took an hour and a half to form the shout alliance and get everyone to camp, and half of the tards will realize they aren't in Abyssea anymore after two fights/wins and warp back to PJ due to unpredictable dog walking emergencies. One fight later we'll have lost so many people that it's time to either restart the process or just warp and log for the night. The worst part is, I'm generally thankful for it to end.

With better incentives or higher drop rates, member retention wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is, they've followed two big event changes that make way for lowman stuff (Abyssea and Neo-Dynamis) with an event that works best with a full alliance.

Eh, I've gotta be honest with you about that, actually. I dislike abyssea. I dislike neo-dynamis. I like VW. Note I say "like" and "dislike" though, not "love" and "hate".

Overall, yes, the loot system is a stall tactic. On one extreme end, you do it for eternity and never get anything. On the other extreme end, you find everything you want when you log in. Both extremes are equally deadly to an RPG. The location between those 2 extremes which the VW loot system currently occupies is ok with me. That's really all I can say about it. There is no proof one way or the other that the current system is good or bad, only opinions. My LS is doing ok on VW so far, and we all appear to be happy with it. If an overwhelming number of other LSs have complaints about it... eh, I suppose it really does need to be changed.

And to be perfectly honest, I do appear to be in the minority on these forums.

[scaevola]

You have a forum full of players telling you the problem is loot distribution, but the devs think there's some other problem at work. Well then, what IS the crux of the problem with Voidwatch?

The purpose of an MMORPG feedback forum is to provide for an actual dialogue between players and devs; the idea is that if the devs make a decision the players don't agree with, they have an avenue in which they can explain the thought process behind that decision. If the line of reasoning is justifiable (which it usually is!), the majority of the players will see the logic and accept it. If the FFXI devs are going to make a decision and then send the Community Reps to issue pronouncements without explaining the rationale, why even bother?

As it stands, this forum is a teaser site for the next update.

[Tamoa]

I too would really REALLY like to know what exactly the devs believe is the crux of the problem with Voidwatch.

[Asymptotic]

I dunno guys. My mannequin is really enjoying the Mekira Mekiogai that I got from Kaggen last night. Seems like everything is working as intended.

[Insaniac]

Does it blink when it's on your mannequin?

[scaevola]

With better incentives or higher drop rates, member retention wouldn't be as much of an issue. As it is, they've followed two big event changes that make way for lowman stuff (Abyssea and Neo-Dynamis) with an event that works best with a full alliance.

When you put it this way, I have to laugh at how many good ideas the FFXI has lifted from WoW over the past five years, culminating in Abyssea as an FFXI-centric version of World of Badgecraft, only to end up running afoul of the Karazhan > Gruul's Lair/Magtheridon transition the WoW devs have said on several occassions completely ruined what would have been their best expansion.

[Alhanelem]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.
There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of how players play voidwatch. You can't shorten a fight that players specifically drag out in order to proc more weakness.

[Byrth]

I don't even see low drop rates as a stall tactic. At the rate pickup groups do Voidwatch, even the pickup group organizers are in no danger of capping out on drops between Voidwatch updates. If they doubled the drop rates, that would still be the case. I can count on one hand the number of Bastok/Sandy/Windy tier 4 bodies I've seen drop, and I don't need most of my fingers. Body drop rate on Jeuno Tier 3s seems higher, but weapon drop rates on Zilart Tier 3s may be even lower.

This is an event designed for the 18-man shells that we all happily let fall apart a year ago. Barring re-making them, you're kind of stuck not doing Voidwatch (efficiently/at all).

[Zirael]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

Sorry Camate, the Dev team is wrong about this. Being unable to move individual items to the alliance loot pool is the single largest issue with this system. If you changed it to that, the system would be fine even with its atrocious drop rates.

Kill speed is limited by proc speed. If it takes you 15 minutes to proc out and cap lights regardless of the opponent, then shortening the battle just reduces the time you have to focus on damage and makes the fight harder.
Aside from kill speed and proc speed, other things that hinder the flow of these battles is having to go back to town for 3-4 new Voidstones (and cells) and to NPC all the junk clogging your inventory.

[Bigboy]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

Thanks for nothing. Tell the dev team to just flip us the bird themselves next time.

This just further displays the complete detachment of the dev team to the player-base. They clearly don't see what is important. I don't want to see ANY new voidwatch until this is changed. You are building on a faulty foundation. Stop trying to add more levels to a bad building. It will make every new voidwatch thing added worse if the drop system isn't addressed beforehand.

[Kristal]

Translation: "We're not going to fix the single largest problem with this system, but we're going to make it harder to kill them with pickup groups."

Sorry Camate, the Dev team is wrong about this. Being unable to move individual items to the alliance loot pool is the single largest issue with this system. If you changed it to that, the system would be fine even with its atrocious drop rates.

That's NOT the single largest issue.. it's actually a non-issue that's blown out of proportions by people unable and unwilling to adapt to a system unique to voidwatch. If anything, the issue is that SE is teasing you with drops you MIGHT have gotten. If SE changed the system to the default single treasure, droprates would be even WORSE!

The biggest problem is the lack of decent loot on the majority of the NMs, which is a crucial problem when the event has to compete with abyssea.

[Nala]

Bleh not trying to defend by any means but they said adjustments to reduce length, they didnt say they were lowering the time limit to fight. that said the only other easy adjustment for that would be to make the proc system less asinine, which would also make it more easily accessible by low man groups which beyond the drops issiue has been my biggest beef with the over all system.

my shell in particular isnt large in numbers did VW for the first time last week and managed to complete bastok path but due to proc system we were unable to even get close to capped lights (on T3/4) as such we got crap for drops and no atmacites, my point? i mean to ask if what was meant is not a proc system overhaul that you consider it, given that not only are drop rates poor and uncontrollable being unable to even afford the best opportunity to get drops is just disheartening.

i'm ok with poor drop rates but not ok with being SOL just because we lack numbers.

[Creelo]

I'm sorry Cam, but this is bullshit.

[Vagrua]

I agree that adding to the treasure pool should be enabled for at least one item in the chest from each member at the end of each fight. Players obtaining the items they want at the moment that can make use of them is a very small chance with the current system. You have mage jobs getting DD bodies and DD jobs getting mage bodies that they can't make use of even after all the effort the linkshell put into spamming the fights for it over someone actually being able to obtain the body and make use of it. I see many complaints and hope SE fixes this eventually.

[MarkovChain]

Lol. Btw nobody cares, voidwatch has been a fail system from start. The gear that comes from it sucks and the only reason for it to exist is metal plates. And if you are serious about getting an empy you need to go away from VW because it's much better to farm clink clink and buy from bazars.

Incoming NMs with more retarded moves, even less accessible, with more junk drops and more metal plates for level 99. *You can have this*. I'm getting 50 plates per day from selling currency.

[Insaniac]

That's NOT the single largest issue.. it's actually a non-issue that's blown out of proportions by people unable and unwilling to adapt to a system unique to voidwatch. If anything, the issue is that SE is teasing you with drops you MIGHT have gotten. If SE changed the system to the default single treasure, droprates would be even WORSE!

The biggest problem is the lack of decent loot on the majority of the NMs, which is a crucial problem when the event has to compete with abyssea.Failure to adapt? Adapting would require there be something we could do to try to make sure r/e items drop to people that can actually use them and don't already have them. I think what you meant to say is "Get used to how terrible it is." Which is stupid. There is some pretty solid gear from the T3s btw and a lot of solid AHable stuff from the lower tiers.

[Vagrua]

I'm getting 50 plates per day from selling currency.

Idk about your server, but that adds up to about 15m worth of currency a day on mine if you're getting heavy metal plates for 300k each. If it's 100k on your server, it would be 5m worth of currency in a day. That still doesn't sound like a day's farm of currency to me in dynamis. At least not solo.

[MarkovChain]

50 is when I can do two runs. I'm buying @150 k. I know I'm crazy but who cares 10 millions of today is 1 millions of yesterday and nobody knows what kind of inflation we are going to get next.

...and next VU I will be getting 50 more plates from selling alexandrites I bet lol.

[Urthdigger]

I like to believe that the FFXI staff is listening to the playerbase like the FFXIV staff has been... but really? REALLY? That's not really a solution to the problem at all. More than anything, that's what's going to kill FFXI: The developers not listening to feedback.

[Rorald]

it IS a huge problem and it really makes me lose confidence in the SE team to not be able to see something so obvious.

[Qtipus]

Camate really should tell the Devs to make those posts. See if that response actually changes...

It's almost like they're trolling the community.

[Mightyg]

Yeah. Disappointing.

[Quetzacoatl]

I like to believe that the FFXI staff is listening to the playerbase like the FFXIV staff has been... but really? REALLY? That's not really a solution to the problem at all. More than anything, that's what's going to kill FFXI: The developers not listening to feedback.

Exactly, and they're adding more to Voidwatch without considering the fact that the only thing that needs changed is to implement

Add to Treasure Pool

[Nervosa]

When the community that plays the game sees a flaw but the dev team doesn't, looks like there's no point to even contribute anything on the forums.

Guess we're just posta bend over, take it in the rear and ask for more.

[Elanabelle]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.


Incredibly bad reply and totally illogical.

You have a player doing Voidwatch, who happens to be lucky enough to have previously earned a Rare/Ex loot item .... and it's possible for the same very uncommon Rare/Ex loot item to drop to the SAME player, who can not receive it, and does not have the option to trade/share/give/auction that item!!!

Meanwhile, you have up to 17 other players in the alliance, MANY of whom might be desiring that Rare/Ex item, but can not receive it, even though technically it "dropped" from the NM. And instead, they get Petrified Logs, Gold Beastcoins, Rubies, and Darksteel Ingots.

There is no practical actualized "reward" to ANYONE in that alliance. The Voidwatch battle system is *excellent*. And the loot distribution *totally fails*. It's a shame. But what's more shameful is that the development team either doesn't realize it .... (yes, see that elephant in the middle of the board room, team?), or is too proud to admit a mistake.

Fail.

Do better.

[Mirabelle]

I think what SE doesn't realize is how getting a rare/ex drop that you already have is actually more frustrating than nothing at all. We are conditioned to see nothing drop thanks to SE's long lasting fascination with crappy drop rates. So when something actually does drop we get excited, only to find its something that we have to discard. Meanwhile our got the item we wanted and already has one. This creates havoc emotionally and, as threads like this testify to, a lot of anger.

I'd suggest SE talk to some gaming psychologists before they design these crappy solutions.

I accept that SE wants us to have time sinks and also the Skinnerian value of random drop rates. But I'd be much happier if the system could determine it you already have a rare/ex item in your inventory and will either substitute an alternate item or drop no item at all. And I'd be much happier of time sinks were of the type where you do a lot of different things for an item, not a billion of the same things.

[detlef]

Well, if you aren't going to allow the pooling of drops, then the logical alternative is to increase drop rates on rare items to compensate.

[Insaniac]

There is no practical actualized "reward" to ANYONE in that alliance. The Voidwatch battle system is *excellent*. And the loot distribution *totally fails*. It's a shame. But what's more shameful is that the development team either doesn't realize it .... (yes, see that elephant in the middle of the board room, team?), or is too proud to admit a mistake.

Not pride. Not ignorance. They know exactly what they are doing. They want us stuck as long as possible because it saves them money thinking up new ways to stall us. They figured out a way to make a .2% drop rate seem reasonable to people who don't realize that a r/e item that drops once every 20 fights does not have a 5% drop rate when you consider that there have technically been 360 loot pools.

I don't even get my hopes up for VW loot any more nor are any of the rare drops something I ever expect to get. Has anyone after thousands and thousands of Qilin chests seen anyone walking around with the dagger? Has anyone seen a single one of the aura weapons? I've only seen the NQ versions. I already did my time trying to get a dagger and going 0/150. Never again.

[Frost]

Reminds me of the 18 hour Pandemonium Warden fight that Square Enix thought was "normal" or "okay"...

Until the media got wind of it...

Stuff like this really shows how amateur they are as an MMO provider. Sad part is that their audience isn't teens anymore, we're adults. Some of us are even in the field of game design, or aspiring to be. Ironically some are so because of Square's titles we played when we were young.

A lot of this just shows "what not to do".

How do you go form the Abyssea paradigm to this? I am so confused.

With FFXIV failing as hard as it is... You'd think they'd try to make their customers happier. You know?

This dynamic is akin to say, a car company that sells exploding cars to encourage people to buy new ones.

It doesn't work that way.

[Tamoa]

Lol. Btw nobody cares, voidwatch has been a fail system from start. The gear that comes from it sucks and the only reason for it to exist is metal plates. And if you are serious about getting an empy you need to go away from VW because it's much better to farm clink clink and buy from bazars.

Incoming NMs with more retarded moves, even less accessible, with more junk drops and more metal plates for level 99. *You can have this*. I'm getting 50 plates per day from selling currency.


Nobody cares? Then why are there several threads across several FFXI forums complaining about the current voidwatch reward system? Why does this thread even exist if nobody cares?

And if everybody "goes away from VW" to farm gil, soon there won't be any plates for you to buy.

[MarkovChain]

You didn't understand the idea behind voidwatch. It's not endgame is a newstyle of bcnms.

*It's designed so that the majority of players don't care.(crap gear)
*It's designed so that a minority will be getting gil from selling plates and mats. (low drop rate)
*It's designed so that empy upgraders don't care (impossible to get your plates only from VW even if you spam VW for several years)
* It's designed so that it's impossible to collect all the drops from the ally = it is anti-linkshell friendly = they want it a shout event.

It means that SE is wanting a very small part of the players to get the final levels empy and they don't want linkshells to spam VW unless it's for money making; the last post from camate means that they want to make it easier to organize /shouts groups.

When I say that nobody cares it means that if you want an empy you don't have to care if someone will do VW or organize VW runs yourself. The supply is here becuause the market regulates itself. Out of the population of a whole server there will be a minority that will upgrade empy and and a minority (that keeps changing every day/week) that will farm metal plates and the rest of the server doesn't care. There will always be a few apportunists that will join random shouts and it's enough to maintain a supply for several empyreans on a given server. That's why they don't want to increase droprate or loot distribution. It would unbalance their idea of making level 95(+) empy not available to everyone.

[Monchat]

His post was more to show the complete paradox of voidwatch, where doing VW seriously decreases the chance of getting metal plates ( from the individual point of view, not the server).

I think a step forward to fix the crap drop system is to remove ex flag on items so people can sell or trade them. Next they need to simplify the proc system, and make it actually do something. Unfortunately I think the only kind of new content (besides old endgame II) we will ever get from now on is voidwatch of fail. Fail gear, fail drops, fail proc system. The only thing great we got this year is dynamis II imo, even though the drop from the new NM suck almost as much as voidwatch drops, with exceptions.

[MarkovChain]

Dynamis NMs drops are more useful than voidwatch. Refresh grip, tripple attack ring, accuracy ring, double attack belt..

[Darkvalkyr]

Reminds me of the 18 hour Pandemonium Warden fight that Square Enix thought was "normal" or "okay"...

Until the media got wind of it...

Stuff like this really shows how amateur they are as an MMO provider. Sad part is that their audience isn't teens anymore, we're adults. Some of us are even in the field of game design, or aspiring to be. Ironically some are so because of Square's titles we played when we were young.

A lot of this just shows "what not to do".

How do you go form the Abyssea paradigm to this? I am so confused.

With FFXIV failing as hard as it is... You'd think they'd try to make their customers happier. You know?

This dynamic is akin to say, a car company that sells exploding cars to encourage people to buy new ones.

It doesn't work that way.

At the rate FFXIV's developing, they have a better chance than XI in the long run.

Seriously though; I can see SE going "If the ones who want it didn't get it, then assume it as if it never dropped from the NM at all!" which is completely untrue - in this situation, friends who want to help friends get hurt bad because this system is so anti-friendly helping behaviour. Not only do we force each other into jobs just because of procs, we spend ages getting items that constantly taunt us while the ones that want them don't.

I don't jump into VW a lot, and now I really don't want to. I have more fun still in Abyssea or other older content.

[Mahoro]

I don't even see low drop rates as a stall tactic. At the rate pickup groups do Voidwatch, even the pickup group organizers are in no danger of capping out on drops between Voidwatch updates. If they doubled the drop rates, that would still be the case. I can count on one hand the number of Bastok/Sandy/Windy tier 4 bodies I've seen drop, and I don't need most of my fingers. Body drop rate on Jeuno Tier 3s seems higher, but weapon drop rates on Zilart Tier 3s may be even lower.

This is an event designed for the 18-man shells that *l* happily let fall apart a year ago. Barring re-making them, you're kind of stuck not doing Voidwatch (efficiently/at all).

Fixed for you, but I agree with the overall sentiment. I don't really see the dev team's fear of letting more people get what they want. If they think people will burn through the content and never touch Voidwatch again....well, look at Abyssea. You can "beat" Abyssea in a couple days per job you want to gear. Besides, people will be farming VW for Plates for a long time.

[Feliciaa]

There seem to be a lack of understanding as to why the design team is doing things this way.

The design team won't make it so items can be transferred to the loot pool because it means players would now have 18 chances at said item per fight...

The design team has clearly stated new tiers will have higher drop rates.

If you are having issues with procs then you need to /shout for other jobs. There is no reason to low man this event.

If people really want VW to change they need to start looking at what the design team has said and offer constructive criticism. Just typing in big bold font won't get anything changed.
It's sad that out of 12 pages only 2-3 people are actually trying to come up with ideas.

[Zirael]

Simple question:
IF SE decreased R/EX item drop rates 18x from current drop rates, BUT you got an option to put that item in the lot pool, would you be fine with that?
I think I'd be okay with something like that, because otherwise my DRK friend might never (in foreseeable/sane time frame) get his Ace's Body or my PUP friend his Turbo Animator, whilst I, having no use for these items, got them already and dumped on mule.

This wouldn't really change an individual's chances of getting an item they want/NEED, but it would allow people who DON'T want/need said item to give it out to friends/people in need.

On the other hand, it would expose how truly abysmal time/effort/reward ratio of Voidwatch is for an individual person. You'd have more satisfaction/progress camping Argus.

As a side note, one of other flaws of this system is that the drop rates are tailored with assumption every fight is done by 18 people and all of those are after all of the possible drops and SE has set it up so that only so many people are allowed to see good item per fight. At least with lot pools as more and more people were getting items from an event, an individual's chances of getting an item were increasing (because everyone ahead in DKP points was capping on that item etc). In Voidwatch no matter how long you keep doing it, your chances of getting the item you want are the same on fight No.1 and fight No.352. And whilst your friends/LS just got their twentieth pair of Fijin Boots, you still got none.
These is no sense of progress in Voidwatch, only stupid hope.

[Yinnyth]

Dynamis NMs drops are more useful than voidwatch. Refresh grip, tripple attack ring, accuracy ring, double attack belt..

Hah, you funny. Listing the triple attack ring among stuff from Dynamis that's "useful". The triple attack ring has acc+3 and TA+2(when MP>99). No, not 99%, 99 MP. Plus it can't be used by any job that has an innate MP pool. Plus it can't hold a candle to epona's ring. Also have no idea what you're talking about with "double attack belt"... you mean Portus Collar, the DA neck which drops from one of the second tier Diabolos'? One of the ones that there's no confirmed kills against yet? Yeah, that's pretty cool I guess. Not as cool as a body piece which gives constant AoE haste+2%, but still pretty cool.

[cidbahamut]

If people really want VW to change they need to start looking at what the design team has said and offer constructive criticism. Just typing in big bold font won't get anything changed.
It's sad that out of 12 pages only 2-3 people are actually trying to come up with ideas.
When the design team is determined to take an otherwise delicious pastry, take a dump all over it and hand it to the player, the correct response is not to sit there and go "well I guess we could eat around it". No, the correct response is to grab the design team by the lapels, hoist them into the air, pin them against a wall and slap them about a few times and tell them "No. That is not how you prepare pastries and we will not stand for it. Now cut that out."

[MarkovChain]

Hah, you funny. Listing the triple attack ring among stuff from Dynamis that's "useful". The triple attack ring has acc+3 and TA+2(when MP>99). No, not 99%, 99 MP. Plus it can't be used by any job that has an innate MP pool. Plus it can't hold a candle to epona's ring.

All job earring that is better than rajas you mad™. Also should be better than an acc +9 one.



Also have no idea what you're talking about with "double attack belt"... you mean Portus Collar, the DA neck which drops from one of the second tier Diabolos'? One of the ones that there's no confirmed kills against yet? Yeah, that's pretty cool I guess. Not as cool as a body piece which gives constant AoE haste+2%, but still pretty cool.

That's because you are a voidwatch fanboy and didn't have a look at what happens in dynamis. http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10818/tjukurrpa-belt.

[Byrth]

Fixed for you, but I agree with the overall sentiment. I don't really see the dev team's fear of letting more people get what they want. If they think people will burn through the content and never touch Voidwatch again....well, look at Abyssea. You can "beat" Abyssea in a couple days per job you want to gear. Besides, people will be farming VW for Plates for a long time.

There are 0 active 18 man shells from Garuda still going. I can name a handful of 18-man shells on my server, and I wouldn't consider doing anything with most of them because they're either >50% incompetent or have ridiculous rules. I don't think it's just me who let the shells fall apart.

[Kaych]

Dynamis NMs drops are more useful than voidwatch. Refresh grip, tripple attack ring, accuracy ring, double attack belt..

The sagasinger is nice^^
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Sagasinger

[Yinnyth]

All job earring that is better than rajas you mad™. Also should be better than an acc +9 one.



That's because you are a voidwatch fanboy and didn't have a look at what happens in dynamis. http://www.ffxiah.com/item/10818/tjukurrpa-belt.

Rajas earring, eh? An oversight on my part makes me a Dynamis newb (when I've been leading Dynamis for 5 years), so I guess that oversight makes you a whole game newb. Belt still isn't better than some of the stuff that drops from VW.

I've been complaining about the quality of drops in Dynamis forever now. The fact that you're claiming Dynamis has a better loot system than... anything... makes me laugh. You do the higher tier Dynamis battles? The work/reward ratio is even worse than VW.

[MarkovChain]

It's funny how you change subect all of a sudden. So you admit dynamis drops are better after all. Btw I forgot to add aife's mantle for an optimal mnk build.

[Yinnyth]

It's funny how you change subect all of a sudden. So you admit dynamis drops are better after all. Btw I forgot to add aife's mantle for an optimal mnk build.


Rajas earring, eh? An oversight on my part makes me a Dynamis newb (when I've been leading Dynamis for 5 years), so I guess that oversight makes you a whole game newb. Belt still isn't better than some of the stuff that drops from VW.

I've been complaining about the quality of drops in Dynamis forever now. The fact that you're claiming Dynamis has a better loot system than... anything... makes me laugh. You do the higher tier Dynamis battles? The work/reward ratio is even worse than VW.

Where did I say Dynamis loot is better than VW loot? "Belt still isn't better than some of the stuff that drops from VW."... that means stuff in VW is still better than the belt I overlooked. "The work/reward ratio is even worse than VW."... that means harder to obtain loot in Dynamis, and the loot is of lower quality than in VW.

Edit: crap, I'm feeding the trolls again. Sorry for the derail. Main point: getting what you want from VW is hard, but not as hard as getting what you want from Dynamis.

[MarkovChain]

You are failing to show superior belts so yeah credibility zero. VW fanboy.

[Raksha]

There are 0 active 18 man shells from Garuda still going. I can name a handful of 18-man shells on my server, and I wouldn't consider doing anything with most of them because they're either >50% incompetent or have ridiculous rules. I don't think it's just me who let the shells fall apart.

Which of those categories does my LS fall into?

[Byrth]

I honestly don't remember what shell you're in. I think it's the first shell whose name I can't remember.
* The shell that I did Einherjar with once has a few people I like, a few people I don't know, and a few people who think they're much better at the game than they are (which is normal). I haven't thoroughly investigated their rules, but I seem to remember it being much much more in to wealth redistribution and mandatory events than I'm game for. If you take a linkshell to do KS99 Wyrm, for instance, it should still be Your Pop Your Drop. Pop item included and sellable, and nothing obligatory linkshell property. If you go to kill Fafnirs, your linkshell members should be able to sell Honey Wines that drop off their pops, etc.
* SND has shown themselves to be a big pile of fail in pretty much every one of my interactions with them. I think I was on the server for less than a day before they stole an Ix'Drk from me with a party (I sac pulled to a tower to depop the adds) and ended up wiping to it (because they re-linked the adds and couldn't figure out how to handle it). Reclaimed, got a stupid deed, and they just cost me half an hour and some annoyance. Way to set the tone, guys.
* Blueprint is just starting up. I haven't done anything with them yet but recognize some faces from Duvetecca.
* Div is still okay. That's the only Garuda shell that's "still going" but I'm pretty sure it stopped being an event shell and dropped to social status for quite a while. They're also mostly JP, though they had some dedicated "wwww" NAs for a while. I'm not sure if Pyo is expanding it again or what. I've heard only good things about him, but some of his linkshell members always rubbed me the wrong way.
* I'm not sure what happened to Stellvia. I assume they disappeared or merged with Div or something.
* With Shumo's troubles and various other key members disappearing, TheTroupes faded off about two months ago.

Of the linkshells above, only the top two have enough members to do Voidwatch without inviting out-of-LS members. The next two can get Voidwatch done without shouting, but they typically invite random non-members. I'm personally in a nebulous group below the bottom of the list that's basically a collection of a few NAs from Garuda who get together irregularly to do Voidwatch and end up shouting to fill the last 8 slots. I have Ashen/White top tier Abyssites and all the periapts, but it isn't like I can reasonably expect to ever get a Voidwatch body. In fact, I can make a pretty safe bet that I'll get a level 95 Empyrean and Mythic before I get a voidwatch drop that I give a shit about.

To be frank, I haven't found an 18 man linkshell that suits my tastes in years. The average player is so bad and player commitment is so low that leaders sacrifice player quality for the equally-important stat of attendance. This has always been the case, but it's even worse now that there are fewer people in endgame to choose from. Before the server merge, I had listed out the endgame NA players that I approved of and it basically added up to one alliance worth. Many of them have quit since then.

[Mahoro]

Raksha and I are in Anduril, Byrth. I personally help make the rules as sack so I think they are extremely fair. (KS99s are your pop, your drop as you wrote you preferred. Members can call HQ King pops that drop off their NQ Kings.)

As for your other category, if I go into specifics, Raksha will tattle on me to the members, so let's just say...um... there are a few incompetents in every large FFXI group, but our ratio there is low and when we organize the allies we never put them in positions of large responsibility :P

[Raksha]

I honestly don't remember what shell you're in. I think it's the first shell whose name I can't remember.
* The shell that I did Einherjar with once has a few people I like, a few people I don't know, and a few people who think they're much better at the game than they are (which is normal). I haven't thoroughly investigated their rules, but I seem to remember it being much much more in to wealth redistribution and mandatory events than I'm game for. If you take a linkshell to do KS99 Wyrm, for instance, it should still be Your Pop Your Drop. Pop item included and sellable, and nothing obligatory linkshell property. If you go to kill Fafnirs, your linkshell members should be able to sell Honey Wines that drop off their pops, etc.


Yeah that's probably my shell that you're thinking of. I have my qualms with them about some of those things but all in all I feel it's a pretty fair trade. Most of the events are focused around getting clears and helping people who cant 2box everything get the stuff they need, but there is big ticket stuff too for the "hardcore" guys. Sucks that you don't think you'd fit in, I'd love to have you in our shell.

[Mahoro]

Rajas earring, eh? An oversight on my part makes me a Dynamis newb (when I've been leading Dynamis for 5 years), so I guess that oversight makes you a whole game newb. Belt still isn't better than some of the stuff that drops from VW.

I've been complaining about the quality of drops in Dynamis forever now. The fact that you're claiming Dynamis has a better loot system than... anything... makes me laugh. You do the higher tier Dynamis battles? The work/reward ratio is even worse than VW.

I'm not sure where this comes from. Pop items in Dynamis fall like rain from the higher level mobs. When our LS does Neo-Dynamis, we pop a few of each NM so we collect 3+ Arch Boss sets. Firstly, the NM's drop Oneiros/Mujin items quite frequently, which are great AH fodder and fills LS bank coffers quickly considering most of them go for 1,000,000+. As for the main event, Arch Bosses very rarely drop nothing, and most will drop at least one item. We've seen quite a few FULL drop Arch Bosses. The work/reward ratio is certainly more predictable than VW....

[Byrth]

Eh, I guess another major issue I have is that joining a large shell of strangers with frequent mandatory events would prevent me from doing things with my nebulous collection of friends. It's not so much that I dislike you guys as that I don't know you. My social has 3~4 people on every night, and we can go do things. Sometimes one of us finds out about an alliance event going down, and we go do things in an alliance. Often it's just me dualboxing dynamis and doing Dancer testing.

[Mahoro]

Yeah that's probably my shell that you're thinking of. I have my qualms with them about some of those things but all in all I feel it's a pretty fair trade. Most of the events are focused around getting clears and helping people who cant 2box everything get the stuff they need, but there is big ticket stuff too for the "hardcore" guys. Sucks that you don't think you'd fit in, I'd love to have you in our shell.

/poke Raksha. All our private pop stuff is "your pop, your choice of 1 drop (or 1 type of item if multiples drop like AF3 trinkets)." And in KS99, it's "your pop, you keep entire loot pool." Dunno how we could be fairer while still allowing some stuff to fall to the rest of the LS!

[Mahoro]

Eh, I guess another major issue I have is that joining a large shell of strangers with frequent mandatory events would prevent me from doing things with my nebulous collection of friends. It's not so much that I dislike you guys as that I don't know you. My social has 3~4 people on every night, and we can go do things. Sometimes one of us finds out about an alliance event going down, and we go do things in an alliance. Often it's just me dualboxing dynamis and doing Dancer testing.

That's too bad ;; I like many of your posts on BG and here and you'd probably be a good fit for us if you ever change yer mind!

[Byrth]

Honestly, for things like Fafnir it should really be "if you want it and you popped it, it's yours." Same deal for Nidhogg.

There's no reason to force people to share drops from low mannable monsters that you choose to do with a linkshell. The story always ends with a small number of people who farm pops in the linkshell and a large number of people who leech.

Thanks for thinking I'd be a good fit though guys. I'm honored. I just don't really feel like regularly dealing with an alliance worth of people anymore though. hermit@<3

[Mahoro]

Honestly, for things like Fafnir it should really be "if you want it and you popped it, it's yours." Same deal for Nidhogg.

There's no reason to force people to share drops from low mannable monsters that you choose to do with a linkshell. The story always ends with a small number of people who farm pops in the linkshell and a large number of people who leech.

Normally, I would agree with you, but then the question is...what ISN'T low-mannable in this game anymore, except VW and certain Arch-Dynamis bosses? That is why we have a rule for popped mobs in LS, that if you pop it in shell you choose one drop after you see the loot pool (or in Abyssea one type of drop, i.e., you can lot all trinkets or Magian items of the same type). This way we give at least some incentive for dragging the entire LS out to do a lowmannable mob during event time.

This actually works for Fafnir or Nidhogg too, because odds are only ONE thing of value will drop from it anyway, and that will be yours because you get your first pick of the pool. I have never heard a single testimonial of a Ridill and Sweet Tea dropping off the same Fafnir, but if it were to do so, the person popping Faf would have to choose between one or the other. I think that is fair. If the person wants all drops to himself, they could just kill Faf with 2-3 people outside LS event time.

[Xellith]

My LS has the rule of "If its your pop you lot 1 thing from the pool or one type of item in abyssea". So If someone had worked to get a zeni popset and we popped Tyger or Tinnin they could lot any 1 item they wanted from the pool. Everyone else gets to freelot the rest.

Of course this is all situational depending on if ones persons set was added to someone elses. Generally if people worked together for a pop we would let multiple people lot.

People who just show up for help should get a shot at something but not at the expense of people who actually worked at the pop.

KS99 popsets we generally have everything just go freelot since its all worthless anyways - some of the money drops e.g speed belt we let the popper get. The popper gets the HNM pop. All the drops from the HNM go to the popper. Anything they dont want is freelotted between the group.

[Raksha]

/poke Raksha. All our private pop stuff is "your pop, your choice of 1 drop (or 1 type of item if multiples drop like AF3 trinkets)." And in KS99, it's "your pop, you keep entire loot pool." Dunno how we could be fairer while still allowing some stuff to fall to the rest of the LS!

I was under the impression that we couldn't sell king triggers if we obtained them in LS.

[Yinnyth]

I'm not sure where this comes from. Pop items in Dynamis fall like rain from the higher level mobs. When our LS does Neo-Dynamis, we pop a few of each NM so we collect 3+ Arch Boss sets. Firstly, the NM's drop Oneiros/Mujin items quite frequently, which are great AH fodder and fills LS bank coffers quickly considering most of them go for 1,000,000+. As for the main event, Arch Bosses very rarely drop nothing, and most will drop at least one item. We've seen quite a few FULL drop Arch Bosses. The work/reward ratio is certainly more predictable than VW....

I've seen more empty arch bosses (three times) than full arch bosses (never). One empty was in Jeuno, another in Sandy, and the last was in Beauc (these all had at least th3+3).

Granted our VW group is larger than our Dynamis group, and that may be skewing my view a bit on the topic. Because we're usually taking down bosses with a one-time per run zerg, we only get to do 1 boss. A larger group could probably manage 2 or 3 kills per run. However, the reason our VW group is larger is because there's more people who want things from VW than from Dynamis. The 7 new rings and annulets from the CoP zones are a bit painful to look at sometimes... and they're neoboss drops, not just neo NM drops.

[MarkovChain]

People don't duo fafnir ?

[Byrth]

I think having mandatory events that can be lowmanned at this stage of the game is just kind of an issue in general.

Like, KS99 Wyrm, Fafnir, and Nidhogg can all be killed with a single party. Killing with more than a single party might slightly speed up your kill rate, but not enough to offset the fact that it's no longer purely your pop your drop. Fafnir is an easy duo, let alone with a party. Nidhogg is a harder duo, but honestly not that much harder. By making it a full-out linkshell event, you take the few people who have pop items and could have just gone and killed the monsters together and force them to share the drops that they could have gotten for themselves in a comparable amount of time (assuming there was no event that night) with the rest of the linkshell. Assuming everyone is equally skilled/connected, being in the linkshell has just cost them drops without providing any service.

If people aren't equally skilled/connected with a system like yours, then some people will only be able pop when your linkshell is doing "an event." In this case, the more skilled/connected players would logically not pop their pops then and the linkshell would basically end up exploiting people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do lowmannable content.

It's not like linkshell attendance really matters at those lowmannable events, so who are you trying to entice with these optional drops? Why should a WAR have to choose between N.legs and E.body after he blew a thousand KS for a Honey Wine?

In the event that everyone just gets whatever items they want from the monsters they pop, people without pops can still come along to take drops people don't want (like N.head, A.feet, Ridill, BB item, etc.), and people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do things normally can still go along without suffering any penalty.

[FrankReynolds]

People don't duo fafnir ?

no, they usually have buyers there too :P

[Rearden]

Yeah the only argument I'll make is, well, go do the Wyrm KS99 solo then.

A linkshell should work to serve its members.

When we do them, you have people there that want BB items and people there that want NQ/HQ pops. That's the only reason to use seals. People A take BB items, the linkshell pops Kings to get drops that people B want. If you want to do your pop your drop, then your attitude is inherently not group oriented (in the sense that, you want to sell the NQ pop or kill NQ to sell the HQ pop). That's fine, and in a linkshell you can lowman these events and do just that - however if people are wanting to use seals and that's the "event" then the use of those pops are used to benefit the linkshell.

Also, Blueprint has a long and storied tradition of completely legal activities.

[Mahoro]

I was under the impression that we couldn't sell king triggers if we obtained them in LS.

Oh, well yeah, that is the only caveat, that you pop the King in shell.

[Mahoro]

I think having mandatory events that can be lowmanned at this stage of the game is just kind of an issue in general.

Like, KS99 Wyrm, Fafnir, and Nidhogg can all be killed with a single party. Killing with more than a single party might slightly speed up your kill rate, but not enough to offset the fact that it's no longer purely your pop your drop. Fafnir is an easy duo, let alone with a party. Nidhogg is a harder duo, but honestly not that much harder. By making it a full-out linkshell event, you take the few people who have pop items and could have just gone and killed the monsters together and force them to share the drops that they could have gotten for themselves in a comparable amount of time (assuming there was no event that night) with the rest of the linkshell. Assuming everyone is equally skilled/connected, being in the linkshell has just cost them drops without providing any service.

If people aren't equally skilled/connected with a system like yours, then some people will only be able pop when your linkshell is doing "an event." In this case, the more skilled/connected players would logically not pop their pops then and the linkshell would basically end up exploiting people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do lowmannable content.

It's not like linkshell attendance really matters at those lowmannable events, so who are you trying to entice with these optional drops? Why should a WAR have to choose between N.legs and E.body after he blew a thousand KS for a Honey Wine?

In the event that everyone just gets whatever items they want from the monsters they pop, people without pops can still come along to take drops people don't want (like N.head, A.feet, Ridill, BB item, etc.), and people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do things normally can still go along without suffering any penalty.

I understand what you are trying to say, but let's use Abyssea for example. The vast majority, if not all, of it is lowmannable. If everyone just gets whatever items they want from monsters they pop, theoretically an entire event can go by where people who are helping to kill the mob either don't get anything or get a few dregs here and there. The rules of any LS have to be neutral and allow for the ideal situations as well as the non-ideal ones. Some LS's make the decision to build an incentive into the event for the LS in some way every time something is popped in shell, because the popper made the decision to use the LS's resources and event time for a private pop that bypasses the normal DKP.

I agree having mandatory events for lowmannable stuff is a constant tension, and one that isn't easily solvable. As Rak said, there are certain people who can dual-box/tri-box, etc. These people don't pop a lot of their private mobs in shell, instead choosing to save their points and lot stuff from events that can't be lowmanned. For the rest, you have the popping policy. I see how you might think it is exploitative, but it comes from a desire to see those 17 other people who help get something for their effort. Some LS members only log on during event time and don't have the time or wherewithal to build private sets or mobilize help during LS offhours. Instead, they look solely to LS event time to get them stuff. Incidentally, it seems like Xellith's LS uses the exact same rules we do.

I also agree the policy is strained a bit when you apply it to something like Land Kings, because the person would be choosing between Ridill or Sweet Tea, or N. Legs and E. Body (in the rare case you would actually see these items drop at the same time). But again, it was their choice to use the LS to do the lowmannable event, and it's sort of the price we built in to dragging people out to Dragon's Aery to "help." (Same with ZNM, dragging people out and having them spend zeni to enter your Sarameya fight etc). Even if they chose to lot E. Body off their Nidhogg, they are completely free to spend DKP to outlot others on N. Legs.

[Raksha]

I think having mandatory events that can be lowmanned at this stage of the game is just kind of an issue in general.

Like, KS99 Wyrm, Fafnir, and Nidhogg can all be killed with a single party. Killing with more than a single party might slightly speed up your kill rate, but not enough to offset the fact that it's no longer purely your pop your drop. Fafnir is an easy duo, let alone with a party. Nidhogg is a harder duo, but honestly not that much harder. By making it a full-out linkshell event, you take the few people who have pop items and could have just gone and killed the monsters together and force them to share the drops that they could have gotten for themselves in a comparable amount of time (assuming there was no event that night) with the rest of the linkshell. Assuming everyone is equally skilled/connected, being in the linkshell has just cost them drops without providing any service.


No one is forced to bring an orb. If you want the LSes help beating the ks99, then you are bound by the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules then dont bring an orb. We also offer points for people who donate their orbs.

Most everyone in our LS just pops theirs on free time, we very rarely do KS99 runs. This is kind of a non-issue really.




If people aren't equally skilled/connected with a system like yours, then some people will only be able pop when your linkshell is doing "an event." In this case, the more skilled/connected players would logically not pop their pops then and the linkshell would basically end up exploiting people who aren't skilled/connected enough to do lowmannable content.


The purpose of doing the low-mannable content is to help the people who can't/won't do it on their own. I wouldn't call that exploiting anyone. The way it usually goes down is that people who have the resources to low man stuff donate their pops for points, and the people who need the drops bid on them. The people who "will only be able to pop when the linkshell is doing an event" wouldn't have the opportunity to pop at all if it wasnt for the LS.

And to be honest, there isn't a lot of this "exploitation" happening. The majority of what we do is stuff like voidwatch. When we do abyssea events it's usually stuff like Bukhis/Apademak/Azdaja which isn't easily low mannalbe by most people, and drops items that lots of people want (+2s as well as emp upgrades). (Yes I know those can dual boxed, but not everyone has the drive/ability to do that)



It's not like linkshell attendance really matters at those lowmannable events, so who are you trying to entice with these optional drops? Why should a WAR have to choose between N.legs and E.body after he blew a thousand KS for a Honey Wine?


Nothing is stopping him from doing a YOYD pickup run on the side, and if he wants both drops then that's probably his best bet.

[Byrth]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).

All I'm saying is, most current events are not suited to lowman stuff done as an alliance. For instance, a single party could probably kill Bukhis equally quickly and safely as an alliance. If you're all friends and you have a "~Abyssea~ day" instead of an "Abyssea Event day" then maybe you log on at 6:30 EST and ask in LS, "Anyone need Bukhis items? Dibs on the wings!" Two or three friends help because they're your friends and you've helped them. Three to four people can't kill Bukhis on their own and want cards or stones, or just want something to do. Now you have a safe kill team and a proc team, all of whom you know. You get together and kill a dozen Bukhis over the next four hours, a few people complete AF3+2, you get 20 wings, and you all go to bed. This is how it works in large social linkshells, and it's really preferable in every way to a mandatory Abyssea event.

[Rearden]

So, the people that put in time at other events, Einherjar, Voidwatch, Neo-Dyna, Sea, etc. The people that can't kill Bukhis but show up to everything else and may want a weapon/item/etc. How do they get it, why are they in a linkshell if a linkshell won't assist them in getting it?

I feel weapon runs for a 3-4h event is stupid, but I also think LS support on the weekend outside of event time is a good thing. Enabling those people to realize they can do shit on their own is good, but saying that lowman events are dumb in an LS is a point of view someone who can 2-3box everything.

[Byrth]

If they don't get a weapon in the situation I described, it's because they're never the one calling wings and asking if anyone wants to go kill stuff or because they don't have the 2-3 friends you'd need to get it going. If you're a good player and you help out when people need it, you end up with a few friends you can call on. If you don't, then you don't, and you aren't helpful enough to warrant your linkshell getting you an empyrean.

[Raksha]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).

All I'm saying is, most current events are not suited to lowman stuff done as an alliance. For instance, a single party could probably kill Bukhis equally quickly and safely as an alliance. If you're all friends and you have a "~Abyssea~ day" instead of an "Abyssea Event day" then maybe you log on at 6:30 EST and ask in LS, "Anyone need Bukhis items? Dibs on the wings!" Two or three friends help because they're your friends and you've helped them. Three to four people can't kill Bukhis on their own and want cards or stones, or just want something to do. Now you have a safe kill team and a proc team, all of whom you know. You get together and kill a dozen Bukhis over the next four hours, a few people complete AF3+2, you get 20 wings, and you all go to bed. This is how it works in large social linkshells, and it's really preferable in every way to a mandatory Abyssea event.

People do those things in their off-time. There is almost always someone doing some kind of abyssea NM outside of LS events. The reason people like you and I do stuff in large groups (when we would be more productive low manning it for instance) is so that we have a support base when it's time for the Big Game to roll around.

How often have you and your 3-4 friends killed arch-dynamis bosses? (And if you have, i'm betting it was ~66%+ pickup group). We have a solid group of people who know how to 2hr zerg for instance, and we spend some time helping everyone get stuff they want/need.

I suppose one way to get the things you want is to farm dynamis 7 days a week and just buy everything (except ra/ex voidwatch stuff) but I really don't have the patience to do that.

[Mahoro]

Spending your time going to mandatory LS events where you do lowman stuff is what stops you from doing YOYD pickup stuff on the side. People have limited playtime, and time you spend helping other people who are unable to lowman content is time that you don't spend doing things YOYD. The benefit you get (extra drops from other people's orbs) is substantially offset by the cost (not being able to spend your own orbs).


I agree this is a problem in some LS's. We only have official events 3 nights a week, Tues/Thurs/Sat. I'm not sure I could deal with some of the schedules some LS's have.

[Quetzacoatl]

Okay, when did this turn into a KSNM99 thread?

I'd rather read what the topic's about.

[Rearden]

Yes, the DEVs who don't have any concept of Voidwatch

[Nynja]

You are failing to show superior belts so yeah credibility zero. VW fanboy.

This is coming from the guy who used to have a ffxiah comment about how only retards do "ashittea" because they were butthurt about salvage being over.

[Mindi]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

Does the Dev team thinking to solve the real problem with those chests? That you can get the same R/EX item again and again in those Chests?


This is the real annoying part... i don't mind the Trigger system. Getting lights to max is no problem normally (unless its all pup and bst abilitys lol), the NM's are all easy to defeat. The personal chest is not perfect, but this is what they want it to be.. thats fine for me. The only real issue i have with VW - Drop system is that the chest can drop the same R/EX item multiple times. Its no fun getting the Torque on Qillin in 25% of the fights or even worse.. have 3 ppl obtain a total of 11 shoes... i rather have no drop at all instat of the same gear again and again.

So all i woud ask dev's to do about VW drop-system is to stop multiple same-r/ex drops to one person. Like its on Shin.. if all have Torque/Belt/Cape w/e it just never drops. Why cant chest be like that? I doubt that this isnt possible, since they use systems like this on NM's already.

Adding the drops to treasure is pointless, i dont understand why all keep asking for that.. if they wanted it to be like this, they would have made the NM drop one treasure pool, and not personal chests. Plz just remove the multiple-dropping r/ex stuff

[Insaniac]

If it was forced to go into another persons chest or it was replaced by a different R/E item I would be fine with that. I don't think just making it not drop is a very good solution though.

[Winrie]

At this rate voidwatch and empyreans are going to be dead content no one seriously does to keep occupied, SE is failing to see this, and by the time they see it, it's gonna be too late no doubt, thats how this always works.

I was contemplating responding to some of the LS posts.. but i dont really feel up to that one today.

[Warden]

Just dropping a line to voice my agreement that the current VW treasure pool system is garbage. I don't care whether or not SE says they are "right". They are right in that VW is a massive time sink of "random sh*t is random", which seems to be what they want.

Some people receiving 7 strendu rings total while others who have performed an equal number of runs have gotten zero; you know all of the arguments. Oh, and the lovely 0/200-300 on radiant mails. It's just going to take a heck of a lot more people to make them realize that its incredibly disappointing seeing so much good gear go to complete waste, and to come in with 18 people with a setup of the best people gear/time has to offer, and walk away with beech logs.

[Aemora]

Would like to also voice my disappointment with the Voidwatch system.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the idea was that upon completion of an event, there is a certain amount of items that are in the "drop" pool. These items are the distributed between the players who participated to those who 'earned' them (when truly, its has to be random). The more people who participate, the lower the chance of you getting the good items and instead get the lower ones. I'm sure I read this was the case for WoE at least (and as VW is the same loot distribution...)

Now, they can keep their beyond terribad drop rates if they like, if they are so determined to do that and be "right", but the very LEAST they could do is to make it so that once a person has acquired that R/E piece of gear, it never loads in their chest again, ever. You can't lot 2 R/E items so why does the game have a system in it where players are presented with that outcome? If the logic is so that each player is compensated for their participation in an event, surely it's a kick in the face to people who already have that item load in their chest again, because then they are down 1 synthable item that's "compensation" for them.

However I do not believe that Empyreans are dead. When Abyssea first came out, and Empyrean weapons were released, no-one went after them really. The idea of getting 50 Briareus Helms or indeed 50 Glavoid Shells was just a tremendous task, a block of insane proportions. Fast forward 2 Abyssea Expansions, and now the Abyssea Empyrean stage can be completed in a few days. They recently added Silver Mirrors to the original City paths of Voidwatch, an upgrade for the 95 Magian Weapons, which to be would indicate that perhaps, PERHAPS, the next stage or two of Voidwatch will have an increased drop rate of Heavy Metal Plates from all paths (if the Lv99 version of them requires a different item again) which will then lead to HMPs being easier to acquire (same logic as Abyssea, more parts of it that comes out, the easier it gets). Perhaps this is what they have in store, I hope it is at least.

But at the very least, make it so that if a person has the R/E item already, make it not load in their Chests from that point onwards so that other players can have the opportunity to get it.

[Nynja]

Except that the drop rate of upgrade items wasnt changed, though some were made somewhat easier (repop timer shortened to 10-15 for timed NM's, and the later addition to pyxis)

[Sickel]

So in the future, the drop rates of items will be increased? What's that going to do besides increase the ratio of garbage thrown away because it went to the wrong player compared to things that actually magically land in someone's treasure box who wants it?

Yeah, now I see the real "crux" of the Voidwatch system.

Clue train: It's bad enough when you have to split rare/difficult to obtain drops to players who have an interest in an item. When Kirin's Osode and the like were still relatively new, you had people who deserved it slightly more than others, be it because they could use it more, or whatever. Now imagine if Kirin was originally implemented in a voidwatch system. I'm sure it would drop at a 0.1% rate to all of the main-job WHMs, THFs, and PUPs, much to the bemusement of all of the jobs that can, you know, equip it, let alone make any real use out of it.

[Yinnyth]

The loot system itself I feel is fair, but ONLY FOR THE MOST PART. I think before the battle, there should be the option to forfeit your chances at loot (you get nothing) in exchange for boosting one other player's chances at loot (they get everything you would have gotten). This way, you can help out your friends even in a pickup group (don't have to deal with every newb lotting the item that your luck produced), and linkshells can attempt to specifically target getting one item for one member.

Edit: Hrm... come to think of it, this system would wind up rewarding larger groups simply because they're larger. Whether some of those people are dualboxed mules or deadweight newbs. But even systems where you could add your ra/ex items to the alliance loot pool would do the same.

[Sickel]

The loot system itself I feel is fair, but ONLY FOR THE MOST PART. I think before the battle, there should be the option to forfeit your chances at loot (you get nothing) in exchange for boosting one other player's chances at loot (they get everything you would have gotten).


This wouldn't really solve the problem. It'd be like me wanting a Seiryu's Kote for my RNG, you wanting a Byakko's Haidate for your NIN. We do the event, and myself and another WHM get 7 Haidates that we drop to the floor. It's aggravating for the NIN to see that happen. In your system, I would give up all items, but then what happens when the person I gave my drops to (the NIN) ends up getting my Seiryu's Kote that finally drops? That kind of system would only work if I was there for nothing more than to help people get items and had no interest in it myself.

[Yinnyth]

He wouldn't get your seiryu's kote because you're fighting byakko when you forfeit your loot to him. If you have nothing to gain from the fight yourself, you should be allowed to boost the chances of your friend at least- that's what my suggestion was all about.

If you're in a pickup group and your friend wants a byakko's haidate, and it drops to you, then you put it in the loot pool, how likely will it be that everyone respects your right to only let your friend lot it?

[Mightyg]

The problem with that is it would take them even more time to implement that as opposed to applying the "send loot to the treasure pool" system that is already in effect in parts of the game, and it still wouldn't fully solve the problem.

[Eijii]

I am very upset with this decision. Why would you let this be? it's obvious one of the biggest problems in Voidwatch endgame. I have been doing Voidwatch SINCE RELEASE... and I have not gotten a body from a T4 or T3 of the new paths... Do you understand how terrible this is? People who don't have the proper jobs leveled or have no interest in leveling it are getting gear... Recently we had one player who came back from a long break still level 75/80ish and got a body piece...HE HAD NO PRIOR WINS OR ANYTHING.. TRADED NO CELLS NO NOTHING!.... do you understand how frustrating that is? Please SE this is the only decent endgame there is right now and it's crippled beyond words in terms of the loot system... fix it.... I hope you understand how WE the FFXI players feel but by the looks of it.. it's going to take you guys a while to realize what you are doing is utter nonsense...fix it.... fix it.... FIX IT. I don't want to keep watching people get things they dont NEED.. I have 100% attendance and I GET NOTHING in voidwatch and people who are never there get drops... FIX IT...............FIX IT!!!!!!!!!! I can't express how upset and angry I am right now but if you truly care about your veteran players who do this endgame... you will listen and work something out. I know this stuff is probably repeated as there are 7+ pages but please... take advice and use it... make Voidwatch loot drop into 1 box and only ally lead will be able to distribute (Obviously a LS leader) and they will be able to distribute it to whomever.. something like that you think something up.. you are Square Enix after all..

[Kitkat]

The loot system could work if it wasn't so off the wall random, or in some cases too consistent. Some people who slave at this aspect of the game are seeing little reward returns while others will hop in for one fight and walk out with a rare/ex. Even in other cases the same person will get the item over and over and over again leading to wasted drops that by all rights should have shifted to a person who wanted it but else wise isn't getting it.

Doesn't anger me so much as annoys me as an LS leader. I don't really care how JP distribute their drops and I don't think that should be considered concerning the repetitive nature of this type of content. You want to give single person chest loot, then keep it to KS/KC/HKC battlefields or similar content. Based on a battle system that requires that you hold a monster and keep it alive until lights are capped before you kill it to increase drops, the loot system is counter productive. Especially if you have someone who enjoys playing a mage job getting....melee items that would be better suited to someone in their LS/alliance that would use it. For crying outloud, even FFXIV has a system that allows you to give an unwanted drop to another before it slips into your inventory from chest and there are chest that already allow you to shift it to your inventory or pool with a click of a mouse....so what is so hard about doing it for VWNM? Players are only asking that the reward distribution is even/fair..not fixed and unable to be amended via player choice. This loot system is better suited to offline RPG than an MMO =/

[Feliciaa]

I understand the anger of not getting gear however. Make sure you guys understand that making loot become one central pool has a few very strong down sides.

If its done this way then VW will only cater to big LSs and the option to just pick up jobs you need to proc will be gone unless you offer outside help compensation via gil/gear.

Also, there is the possibility that the design team will make it so only 1 of each item can drop per fight. While the current system has a chance for multiple people to get the gear.

[Insaniac]

5 hours of T3/4s last night/tonight. Not a single drop anyone wanted. 8 kills. 144 chests. 0 drops that anyone wanted and that is pretty much par for the course. What kind of evil madman calls this a game? This garbage is demoralizing. That's 90 man hours with no pay out what so ever. None. 5 hours of wasted time. I know the thought process behind this but it seems like one would have to be on the edge of insanity to think this is a better way to accomplish the bottle neck than the old days. I'm not suggesting a return to the old ways either but there has GOT TO BE a better way than this. I've said it before but this is THE WORST. LOOT SYSTEM. IN ANY GAME. EVER MADE. Who ever green lighted it needs to be fired because they are of below average IQ. Saying the loot system isn't the "crux of the problem" is so insane. It's the ONLY real problem with voidwatch. People are busting ass for no payoff at all.

[Kitkat]

I understand the anger of not getting gear however. Make sure you guys understand that making loot become one central pool has a few very strong down sides.

If its done this way then VW will only cater to big LSs and the option to just pick up jobs you need to proc will be gone unless you offer outside help compensation via gil/gear.

While this is true, you've also overlooked the fact that several have stated to simply adding an "Add to pool" option would be a perfectly viable solution to this. It wouldn't upset pick-up groups and it would help LS that actually work together for common goals.

Not every "big LS" is driven to exploit a system like this, and even those that would could be hampered if the individual got the drop in their chest anyway. Also, the ease of access to these still allows for pickups to gather for the same intention they do now: band together to overcome a common obstacle while also allowing for the same things the "big ls" would do....offer drops they don't want/need to others that participated. The "big ls" mentality is not the fault of the LS', but of the people who band together with like minded agenda and are just as easily exploitable by individuals. Do try to keep that in mind rather than labeling every LS just because they joined together and found they work better together than individually shouting for pick-up groups that can fall apart after only 1-2 actual fights.


Also, there is the possibility that the design team will make it so only 1 of each item can drop per fight. While the current system has a chance for multiple people to get the gear.

Even if this became the case it would still be better than a system where one person gets more than one of a desired item, can't hold another due to its rare/ex-rare nature and it hits the floor anyway. This is the biggest problem when it comes to the rare/ex gear cause you can't simply trade the one you got to another person so that you can get the one that just dropped. So tell all of us who want a change.....what is so good about that kind of a loot system? If anything it is more detrimental to a pick-up group than anything.

[Feliciaa]

I think a "add to loot pool" would give the design team more reason to not increase the drop rates at all since 1 fight would mean 18 chances at the item.

You are right that not all big LS are like that. However, it greatly kills any casual players chance of joining a pick up and obtaining gear because most really decent items will be locked to LS members only.

IMO. I like the idea that all players have a chance at the best loot every fight vs. Only 1 person.

Granted this is based on the thought of the design team implementing a add button which would most likely mean only 1 of each item could drop per fight.

[Byrth]

Have you ever been to Abyssea? You can take things out of a chest, and then hit "Add to Pool" with the rest of it. It isn't like we're requesting some abstract system that doesn't already exist in the game.

[Rearden]

The whole treasure system in Voidwatch is bullshit, from the droprates to the inability to do the event as a linkshell and offer something to your members for their time.

[Kitkat]

IMO. I like the idea that all players have a chance at the best loot every fight vs. Only 1 person.


That is the problem though, not everyone is really getting a chance at the item when it keeps popping up in the same persons chest over and over again, or the person who got it doesn't want it cause they don't even play any of the jobs that can use it. I've seen a few runs like this now where the same person is getting the item people want over and over again and nothing can be done about it. They can't trade the piece they already got to another person cause it is rare/ex, they can't even take it out of chest, and it ends up being a wasted drop on an item that doesn't even drop that often.

SE needs to fix that with a check system so it doesn't even appear in the chest of someone who already has the item and instead appears in someone elses at the least, but according to camate they don't even see that as a problem. It is "working as intended" which is so counter productive it isn't funny.

[Nynja]

Can Camate offer some insight why SE cant impose a check where an item wont load in someones chest if they allready have it and will then appear in someone elses chest? it can be a random person who doesnt have the item, even that is a huge step in the right direction. Atleast that way, at some point, with enough battles completed, the people will get the body sought after, because at this rate...its not going to happen.

Its still random, completely random, theres still the chance that the sought after EX piece will jump from one persons whm mule to another whm mule, but as long as that other whm mule gets it and holds it, then theres one less person it can load at in a static 18 person scenario. Theres progression, theres no demoralizing BS of someone getting their 5th EX piece that they cant even take out of the chest.

[Yolteotl]

Voidwatch is nothing but a time sink.

Doesn't prevent RMT (Heavy Metal going for 100k each and each Empy weapon needs 1500)
Isn't a fair loot system (Doing fight dozens of times and getting a drop someone needs; but never the person that wants it, so it's thrown away)
Drains other resources (bc of the stone limiter akin to Abbyssea: people drain their conquest, imperial standing, and allied notes to keep their capacity to participate; and drain their cruor w/ the atmacites, warps, items)

Should be able to put any loot u don't want into a public option of the chest for someone else in the alliance to get. Doesn't change the r/e exclusions, prevents rmt of those items (although the Heavy Metal negates the RMT argument completely), prevents ls mandates w points cause they dont know what you have til you put it in as a public option.

Only thing good about VoidWatch is the clears if they ever make the system better and the warps.

[MarkovChain]

The whole treasure system in Voidwatch is bullshit, from the droprates to the inability to do the event as a linkshell and offer something to your members for their time.

No ... really ? Isn't that what I've been saying for months now ? But one more thing most of the posters are wrong about is that there is no chance that the system is going to change much. The whole idea is to make everyone as much efficient/inefficient. I think it's satisfying a lot of "gimps" or "casual" call them however you want, because they can just join a random shout alliance. Since 18 is a must they have essentially no risk at failing especially since you don't lose the void stone upon fail or because you can essentially chain the fights at will. The can just come and leech without having to go into the bullshit process of organizing a event liek Einherjar was. They can hope to get the best drops even if they didn't cleared previous paths. They can hope to get a pouch and make a million bazaring it. With this in mind you'll understand that that if they change the loot system (for instance allowing something to go into treasure pool) they would greatly disturb the system. For instance if you allow a r/e body to go into the pool, you can be certain that there will be much less people organizing /shout or /linkshell voidwatch because once the leader will get their crap /goodbye and the supply of plates will suffer greatly. I think it's a good idea to make an event that implies that the 99% of gimps farm for the other 1%. I just wish they had put better gear into it because so far it doesn't attract anyone serious. if you want the suplly of plates to increase the best way is to give more reason for people to do the event. Otherwise it will remain a 200 millions magian upgrade with another comiing soon that will probably be another 200M. Though I think the level 99 wpn will not be as retarded, because then the amount of people instersted into buying the mats will be ridiculously low.

[Mahoro]

Voidwatch is nothing but a time sink.

Doesn't prevent RMT (Heavy Metal going for 100k each and each Empy weapon needs 1500)
Isn't a fair loot system (Doing fight dozens of times and getting a drop someone needs; but never the person that wants it, so it's thrown away)
Drains other resources (bc of the stone limiter akin to Abbyssea: people drain their conquest, imperial standing, and allied notes to keep their capacity to participate; and drain their cruor w/ the atmacites, warps, items)

Should be able to put any loot u don't want into a public option of the chest for someone else in the alliance to get. Doesn't change the r/e exclusions, prevents rmt of those items (although the Heavy Metal negates the RMT argument completely), prevents ls mandates w points cause they dont know what you have til you put it in as a public option.

Only thing good about VoidWatch is the clears if they ever make the system better and the warps.

I agree with your points, but Oy Gevalt at the RMT point. It strains credulity to think that an army of 18 RMT would be chomping at the bit to capitalize on VW. This is 2011. RMT might still be in the game but they are a dying breed. And you know what? If an alliance of RMT actually GET to the level where their Abyssea-burned, low-skill, Perle/Aurore-clad tuchuses can even SURVIVE a T3 Voidwatch fight longer than 2 minutes, well....more power to them. They deserve to RMT the spoils! :P

[MDenham]

No ... really ? Isn't that what I've been saying for months now ?No, mostly what you've been saying is that the drops themselves are crap.

[MarkovChain]

Nope I've been saying it's complete fail.

[Sparthos]

Good to know Pchan is still adept at spewing verbal diarrhea.

Overall Voidwatch is piss-poor on all fronts.

Storywise? The story is phoned in, there is no reason behind monsters popping out of vortexes and the immersion is about as deep as the puddles that dot the Dangruf Wadi. Where Abyssea subtracted story for more in your face loot rewards, Voidwatch subtracts any ounce of storyline in exchange for droprates that make Poroggo Madames blush.

But hey, im crazy for expecting good storyline from Square-Enix, a company that prided itself on delivering memorable RPG storylines for the past two decades.

Drops? While Voidwatch episode II added some good drops across the board, it doesn't even touch a hair on Abysseas head. You've got good drops like the HQ2 bodies and aura weapons and then you have garbage that are barely upgrades over staple Abyssean loot. It's like level 75 is making a comeback after 3 updates of solid upgrades worth chasing.

I haven't even touched the worst lootpool system designed ever. As SE has shot down the idea of pooling loot, I have presented my opinion on a point based system yet this wasn't considered since the second Voidwatch came to life.

If SE wants to make content "last longer" then tie rewards to points and allow people to gather them and spend them as they please. You can stack high values on HQ2 bodies and weapons while making the lesser drops a fair number of points such that every battle is a victory with an emphasis on hitting procs for more points. This is the fairest system to everyone participating yet it wasn't even considered when designing this content.

Overall: Voidwatch gets a D+ grade. It's not F material like Evoliths but boy does it try to come close.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Neo-Dynamis. It's a decent playground for building/finishing relics or collecting old as piss relic armor but overall the Arch NMs are a huge disappointment.

The pools are shallow respective to the average number of standard players it'd take to complete the content (6-12), the droprates are arbitrarily low in an event that's already set at once a day, the NMs are boring rehashes of the original NMs with the same tricks possessing more HP and the drops just aren't good enough overall to warrant wasting the time doing the content other than saying you're doing something new.

I criticized the Arch Dynamis Lord after the first Dynamis patch because it could have been so much more like all Arch NMs overall. Instead of a boring, uninspired reskin of the original Dynamis Lord (complete with clones that you can't kill but can OHKO you easily) you could have had a much more strategic battle like the Fiat Lux equivalent featured in WOTG. SE is clearly just throwing these mobs together because the lootpools should be far more expansive than they are now if they expected to sell this as new content.

The lack of effort speaks volumes regarding the condition of the development team. It's clear they are overworked, low on staff and in need of reinforcements.

[MarkovChain]

... points. This is the fairest system to everyone participating yet it wasn't even considered when designing this content.

The fairest system is an event that you can join at will and where you get a chance at the drop everytime. So VoidWatch IS fair, just not from a fixed 18-man LS point of view. I've already said that the goal is to make it a random shout event, like doing ENMs was at 75. They have removed the dumb requirements that we had in Einherjar, Limbus and ZNM where you had to clear all previous NM to pop the next one. It only doesn't sound fair if you make it a point going with a fixed group of people. Globally every time you kill a VnM you have a chance at the drop and same chance as the other people in the group, and what NM you do has little to do with the amount of work you previously did. If you want more chance all you have to do is join all the random /shouts you see. It's like salvage but with an individual loot pool and a nearly unlimited entry condition.

Anyone that has farmed Limbus would have been happy if they had the chance to lot nashira legs at every boss run every day even if it is low drop rate. The difference now is that the system forces you to gather 18 persons with is compeltely dumb.

[MercureXI]

Seriously, I don't know if Tanaka is behind this or not, but FFXI dev team needs to remember that FFXI players hate shitty drop rates and tedious events that you need to spam about 45 times a day for 3 months to get your gear (-cough-salvage).

They went from Abyssea, where you needed procs to make gear actually drop with 3-6 people, to VW where you need 18 people to proc decently, with about 0.1 chance at gear dropping ... randomly into any of those 18 players' chest !

We gave you a bunch of good ideas to make this event "enjoyable" ("add to loot" option, prevent R/E gear to drop again if you already have it, etc), yet SE seems like keeping on making everyone angry at their only source of endgame for now, is actually a good idea and will prevent people from mass quitting FFXI.

News flash dev team : retarded events are what made people quit FFXI back in salvage / dyna-boring / camping kings / days. VW needs an adjustement just like WoE needed one ... let's hope you wont need 1 year or 2 to fix this like you did with WoE !

ps : not to mention every VW chest from T3 Zilart / Jeuno should load a Heavy Metal pouch ... would make people try and do the event a LOT more often !

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Seriously, I don't know if Tanaka is behind this or not, but FFXI dev team needs to remember that FFXI players hate shitty drop rates and tedious events that you need to spam about 45 times a day for 3 months to get your gear (-cough-salvage).

They went from Abyssea, where you needed procs to make gear actually drop with 3-6 people, to VW where you need 18 people to proc decently, with about 0.1 chance at gear dropping ... randomly into any of those 18 players' chest !

We gave you a bunch of good ideas to make this event "enjoyable" ("add to loot" option, prevent R/E gear to drop again if you already have it, etc), yet SE seems like keeping on making everyone angry at their only source of endgame for now, is actually a good idea and will prevent people from mass quitting FFXI.

News flash dev team : retarded events are what made people quit FFXI back in salvage / dyna-boring / camping kings / days. VW needs an adjustement just like WoE needed one ... let's hope you wont need 1 year or 2 to fix this like you did with WoE !

ps : not to mention every VW chest from T3 Zilart / Jeuno should load a Heavy Metal pouch ... would make people try and do the event a LOT more often !

And some people hated Abyssea style content.

PS. Stop speaking for every FFXI player.

[saevel]

And some people hated Abyssea style content.

PS. Stop speaking for every FFXI player.

No one "hated" abyssea content.

What they "hated" was easy drops for the mass's and the lack of "exclusivity" they previously felt over having dolled out enough oral manipulation to their LS leaders. Abyssea didn't require an LS to get what you wanted, LS's made things faster but they weren't a requirement. Abyssea was designed for small groups to go out and get everything, PUG's broke it down into "4 man" events to maximize personal loot distribution, but friends could easily do 5,6,7 man runs to get people what they needed / wanted. XP was no longer a grind, you could level any job you wanted and play around on it without having to devote months to getting it to "75". In essence abyssea was about the 95% of a games population that doesn't go around bragging about how much gear they have or which relic they recently acquired. The 5% hated this vehemently and just happen to be the most vocal about ~everything~. Abyssea also had a built in difficult adjustment. If you felt it was "too hard" you could get crour buffs and atma's to make it "easier". If you felt it was "too easy" you could chose not to get the buffs and go all "hardcore". Guess how many people chose to do thing without the buffs?

Those same people who complain about abyssea being "easy" are the ones complaining that everyone has an "emp" and that everyone else's emp is better then their relic.

[cidbahamut]

No one "hated" abyssea content.

What they "hated" was easy drops for the mass's and the lack of "exclusivity" they previously felt over having dolled out enough oral manipulation to their LS leaders.
This crap again? Honestly?

[Elro]

Finally decided to log in to the forum for the first time just to post on this topic.

The loot distribution for Voidwatch and it's associated drop rate is probably one of the worse if not worst system ever implemented in a MMORPG. I thought getting seals you didn't need or want (but couldn't share) from doing ops and quest was bad, annoying and frustrating but VW system puts it to shame.

Abyssea was fun, at least for me and my group. I felt it was a move in a positive direction. Unfortunately Voidwatch and recent trials seems to be detrimental move in the wrong direction of horrible drop rate and excessive amounts of efforts for mediocre returns. Is SE trying to drive their player base away? If they are they are doing a good job.

[Yinnyth]

No one "hated" abyssea content.

What they "hated" was easy drops for the mass's and the lack of "exclusivity" they previously felt over having dolled out enough oral manipulation to their LS leaders. Abyssea didn't require an LS to get what you wanted, LS's made things faster but they weren't a requirement. Abyssea was designed for small groups to go out and get everything, PUG's broke it down into "4 man" events to maximize personal loot distribution, but friends could easily do 5,6,7 man runs to get people what they needed / wanted. XP was no longer a grind, you could level any job you wanted and play around on it without having to devote months to getting it to "75". In essence abyssea was about the 95% of a games population that doesn't go around bragging about how much gear they have or which relic they recently acquired. The 5% hated this vehemently and just happen to be the most vocal about ~everything~. Abyssea also had a built in difficult adjustment. If you felt it was "too hard" you could get crour buffs and atma's to make it "easier". If you felt it was "too easy" you could chose not to get the buffs and go all "hardcore". Guess how many people chose to do thing without the buffs?

Those same people who complain about abyssea being "easy" are the ones complaining that everyone has an "emp" and that everyone else's emp is better then their relic.

Argument you're opposing: Some people hated Abyssea.
Your opening argument: No one hated abyssea.
Supporting argument: Only idiots and jerks hated abyssea, and they were only 5% of the population, they're just really loud.

Btw, I disliked Abyssea. It's half the reason we're having this discussion over VW loot. VW loot is more generous than pre-abyssea loot systems, but because it's not as generous as abyssea, we have a sense of "downgrade". That is to say, each hour we put into VW doesn't put out as much as it did back in the last days of abyssea. Note: the first 3 zones were a lot like other events in the game at the time, and it wasn't as easy because people didn't have 9 zones worth of abyssite and atma. The same is still bound to happen to VW, though probably not quite to the same magnitude.

[Nynja]

VW loot is more generous than pre-abyssea loot systems, but because it's not as generous as abyssea, we have a sense of "downgrade".

Yeah, ummm....not quite. I'd say the drop rate is on par to salvage (based on testimonials that people have gone 20+ fights without seeing a body piece on any char, with individual treasure pools I'm allowed to do this calculation 20x18 = 0/360), except you cant pick your item destination. Imagine doing ramparts, and those lovely usu ft 35's drop...but the game says "your whm gets em, no discussion".

[Byrth]

It's not actually more generous than pre-Abyssea loot systems.

If you and your 17 friends zerged Dynamis Lord 50 times at 75, you'd all have Shadow Mantles and most (if not all) of you would have Shadow Rings. It would take half a year.

If you and your 17 friends zerged Qilin 50 times, some of you would get boots, some of you would get gorgets, some of you would get Lux Puglios, and maybe one or two of you would get a Corsucanti. It could theoretically be done in one to two days, assuming you never lose and don't need to sleep, eat, piss, etc. Furthermore, you have no control over who gets what drop, so one of your friends may have nothing while another has gotten seven pairs of boots.

If you don't think the drop rates are that bad... think again! The main difference between this system and pre-Abyssea loot systems is that it's spammable. Pre-Abyssea, none of the "big" events were spammable. Limbus had a 3 day timer. Dynamis had a 3 day timer. Kings were 4-7 days with NQs every 21-24 hours. The drop rates were higher, but the event rates were lower. Now that SE has effectively eliminated xping/meritting as an event, they need something else to fill the time. Cue Voidwatch, because you could fight the same monster once every 30 minutes for the next week and still not get the drop you're looking for while your friend gets four.

[Insaniac]

The lower tier AH-able trade-able stuff is fine. If you cap lights you usually see at least 2 of them and they can be given to other people if you are in an LS setting. Saying the drop rates on the good stuff from T3/4 vwnms is better than pre-abyssea? You are out of your mind. Yes you will probably get at least 1 of the rare drops every 15-20 fights but that in no way makes them a 5% drop rate when you consider that you have to be the lucky one to get it to drop into your chest. If you are just a little unlucky you could kill the same NM 300 times and never get the drop you are after.

[Yinnyth]

Yeah, ummm....not quite. I'd say the drop rate is on par to salvage (based on testimonials that people have gone 20+ fights without seeing a body piece on any char, with individual treasure pools I'm allowed to do this calculation 20x18 = 0/360), except you cant pick your item destination. Imagine doing ramparts, and those lovely usu ft 35's drop...but the game says "your whm gets em, no discussion".

Is that what you base your calculations on? Cherry picked-testimonials (check the thread about 11 pairs of fajin boots, then base your math on that) from people on the internet (the most reliable place to find nothing but truth) which you then base merely the drop rate of ONE item divided by the number of players there. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy that you attempted to express your frustration in a mathematically quantifiable way, but there are a few fallacies in there.

First of all, how generous a loot system is cannot be based solely on how many loot pools don't contain the desired item. I will attempt to list the factors of what determines how generous a loot system is:
1. Desirability of all items, not just one.
2. Difficulty of the battle and consequences of failure (full wipe in Salvage means no more attempts that day).
3. Average time required to go from not doing the battle (in town, having just finished the same fight previously, gathering pop items, etc) to victory.
4. How frequently the fight can be repeated.
5. Competition/claim rate, if applicable (King Behemoth)
6. Drop rate of desired items.
7. Arverage percentage of needs met per drop (Solo KB and he drops defending ring? 100% of needs met).

I'm probably forgetting a few factors to consider, but that's what I can come up with right now. So comparing it to 35 usu feet, that's just one of the 3 drops you need to finish the desired item. Imagine you need to get 3 drops from VW to make those bodies. Also, Skirmish can choose not to spawn, imagine popping the VW, and it's a low quality mob which can't drop what you want. Also, Salvage can be done only once a day, imagine if you only had that one chance per day in VW. Also, Skirmish (back in the day) required a cell grind before you could reach him, so imagine if you had to fight several lesser VWs before getting to your NM.

I could go on a bit more, but this is tedious to write (and I imagine twice as tedious to read), so I'll just say

TL;DR:
You're oversimplifying things intentionally to exaggerate your point.

[Yinnyth]

It's not actually more generous than pre-Abyssea loot systems.

If you and your 17 friends zerged Dynamis Lord 50 times at 75, you'd all have Shadow Mantles and most (if not all) of you would have Shadow Rings. It would take half a year.

The thing that confuses me is that we seem to agree on the underlying idea, but you're still saying VW has a less generous loot system than pre-abyssea events. When I say "generous" I don't mean the drop rate per kill is better, I mean the return on investment is better. If VW had come out at the same time as LoO, I'm certain there would be more Coruscantis than Kraken Clubs, Ridills, and Defending Rings combined.

[Byrth]

I just don't think that's true. The time it takes to get stones, gather, and kill four Qilin is about equal to the time it took to do a DL run at 75 (probably longer - we used to clear DL in an hour and a half), and the odds that you'll get a Corsucanti (1% or less) are lower than the odds that you'd win Shadow Ring free lot against an alliance (~2%).

The fact that it is possible to spam Voidwatch doesn't mean it has higher drop rates or takes less time to get drops, it just means that you can waste time on the event faster.

[Yinnyth]

How old was the event when you were clearing in 90 minutes? Did you then leave Dynamis, or spend the last 120 minutes farming? How many people did you have and how frequently did you wipe? A wipe in Dynamis means game over, a wipe in VW means you can get up and try again from the start.

VW still has a long ways to go (They've announced 2 more chapters over the coming year). There will be new levels, new gear, new atmacites, new strategies, etc. Don't compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring the day before they changed dynamis. Compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring back when Dynamis - Xarcabard was a few months old. Or to getting an Usukane body when Salvage was a few months old. Or getting a Nashira body when Limbus was a few months old. Or W legs when Kirin was new.

[Insaniac]

TL;DR:
You're oversimplifying things intentionally to exaggerate your point.It's nice that you decided to define generous but you're still wrong. Salvage easily put out more -> wanted <- gear than VW does per man hour invested. Only the 3 kings/competition part of your argument holds water but any moderately motivated shell could cap their core members on everything but D. ring eventually and camping kings is in no way equal to the amount of effort required to cap/kill VW nms. A full window king camp required between 7 and 23 minutes of actual effort. For the record imo old FFXI bottle necks sucked too but VWs loot system makes me long for the days of no pop ramparts and DI camps.

[Insaniac]

How old was the event when you were clearing in 90 minutes? Did you then leave Dynamis, or spend the last 120 minutes farming? How many people did you have and how frequently did you wipe? A wipe in Dynamis means game over, a wipe in VW means you can get up and try again from the start.

VW still has a long ways to go (They've announced 2 more chapters over the coming year). There will be new levels, new gear, new atmacites, new strategies, etc. Don't compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring the day before they changed dynamis. Compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring back when Dynamis - Xarcabard was a few months old. Or to getting an Usukane body when Salvage was a few months old. Or getting a Nashira body when Limbus was a few months old. Or W legs when Kirin was new.Game knowledge and player skill/gear is the only thing that made killing DL any easier 5 years into dynamis than it was 1 month in. Same with the other crap. No one is having any trouble completing VW content which was the only limiting factor on the things you mentioned. There's nothing we can learn about the voidwatch loot system that will make it not a huge steaming pile of trash. At 99 we will be able to smoke Qilin easier than we do now but it won't change the fact that you could easily kill him 300 times and never get a coruscanti.

[Rearden]

Procing the mob and then getting logs isn't going to go any faster at 99 than at 95. You're still doing the same thing: waiting, and killing. The killing part is already easy.

[Sparthos]

Procing the mob and then getting logs isn't going to go any faster at 99 than at 95. You're still doing the same thing: waiting, and killing. The killing part is already easy.

This is already a problem with the first batch of Voidwatch mobs as you can barely hit any trigs before the mobs are already half dead.

Overall, Voidwatch is getting the flak it's getting because the game has fundamentally changed and with Abyssea steamrolling everything, the game has boiled down to:

-Voidwatch
-Dynamis II: Electric Boogaloo
-Abyssea

From a sea of content down to 3 options and it's starting to show. Players held out (false?) hope that beyond Abyssea a new sea of content awaited but yet here we are months after Heroes mulling over what amounts to ANNM redux.

In an era where the most casual player can finish EXP/merits effortlessly, get amazing gear in Abyssea for little to no effort and further possess weapons on nigh-equal footing with relics, the list of things to do drops dramatically. What does a non-existent list of things to look forward wind up doing? Canning subs.

Yeah, yeah I know someones going to pepper me with the 'plethora of content' that now be done but frankly if you're still playing FFXI at this point you're an old player and that crap has been out for years. I just wrapped up WOTG Sandy a week ago and really the walls are closing in for stuff to do.

I imagine others share similar sentiments.

[FrankReynolds]

Maybe you will get lucky and Square will lock you out of your account (I have an account that I made before NA release, that they won't let me link because I don't live in japan *SE racists), then you can level a mule and do everything all over again. Wouldn't that be super fun?

[MarkovChain]

Don't compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring the day before they changed dynamis. Compare getting a coruscanti now to getting a shadow ring back when Dynamis - Xarcabard was a few months old.

I'll compare it for you they both suck ; so linkshells going after DL (nowadays and in the old days) were pretty dumb.

[Runespider]

The more I do voidwatch the more the drop system annoys me, just take the top tier drops out of the loot system and add some r/e point items (with the drop rate of silver mirrors) and make it so that you trade 25-35 of those to an NPC for the armors. The current system is getting really really stupid and it's making everyone sick of what is a fairly fun event.

[detlef]

Last night we finally got our first good T4 drops as a LS. Anhur Robe went to someone who didn't want it. Fazheluo Radiant Mail went to someone who didn't need it. Langeleik went to somebody who will never use it.

[Alderin]

Wow guys seriously stop Q.Q'ing because you didn't get your loot in one run - doesn't mean the whole system should be changed. Did you get the full Askar set the first time you climbed Nyzul? This game is a grind - always has and always will be. If you don't get your loot, warp to jeuno and pick up a few more Voidstones. If you don't like the system, don't do it like the 80% of the population on most servers. The loot system is fine. Cap lights, plant TH, if you don't get it - repeat.. Drop rates are low because they are meant to be RARE items. Not items that can be found on a lvl 95 mule account. History states that you have to grind for the best gear in the game.

[Elanabelle]

In summary,

Players like the increased challenge provided by Voidwatch NM's, compared to other recent content.
Players like the "instanced" style of spawning the Voidwatch NM's, which eliminates absurd waiting times for "old" NMs to spawn, and greatly decreases the stupid inter-linkshell drama/bickering we have witnessed in the distant past.
Players are attracted to some of the potential rewards from defeating Voidwatch NMs.

So, given those positives, the loot distribution system is a MAJOR buzzkill. The Voidwatch loot distribution system does not live up to the other aspects of Voidwatch, as highlighted above.

No one (as far as I can see) is asking for Voidwatch NM's to be easier.
No one is asking for the Voidwatch NM battles to be "quicker" (lol?).
Very few people are asking for the "!!" NM weakness triggering/proc to be easier.

None of that needs adjustment, and if the Development Staff thinks or decides to waste their time and effort adjusting THOSE things, instead of what ACTUALLY needs adjustment, well then, the Development Staff is wasting their time and effort.

What NEEDS to be fixed, is the loot distribution system for Voidwatch. AND!! As far as I can tell, the Development Staff has MULTIPLE options for how this could be achieved:

1. Add unwanted Voidwatch loot to Treasure Pool,

OR

2. Increase the chances/rate of uncommon highly desired Voidwatch loot from the "personal treasure chest" when the player has maxed/capped Blue and Red alignment,

OR

3. Remove the "Ex" tag from Voidwatch loot.

Seriously, based on everything that's happened in FFXI Development over the past year or so, the player base has become accustomed to the Development Staff making ACTUAL DESIRED adjustments to FFXI ... instead of the seemingly-random and often-useless adjustments that we all saw during 2005-2009.

DON'T TURN BACK ON US NOW, FFXI DEVELOPERS. Fix Voidwatch, and if you lack the desire, listening skills, or manpower/resources to fix Voidwatch, then move the Rare/Ex Voidwatch loot items to another FFXI event, like Dynamis, Abyssea, KC/HKCNM battles, or something else, please.

[detlef]

Drop rates are low because they are meant to be RARE items. Not items that can be found on a lvl 95 mule account. History states that you have to grind for the best gear in the game.This is exactly what happens. You are funny.

[Chimerawizard]

I love the fact that there can be multiple of the same item drop, and since it's everyone's own pyxis, there is no loot whoring, drama, ninja lots, or any of the other things that happen to a loot pool. I really would like the pyxis to do a check for rare or rare/ex items so they don't just hit the floor.
If that's too hard to code, adding the option to add spoils to the loot pool would be awsome.

[Sparthos]

I love the fact that there can be multiple of the same item drop, and since it's everyone's own pyxis, there is no loot whoring, drama, ninja lots, or any of the other things that happen to a loot pool. I really would like the pyxis to do a check for rare or rare/ex items so they don't just hit the floor.
If that's too hard to code, adding the option to add spoils to the loot pool would be awsome.

There would be no drama with a point system but instead we get collective suffering where everyone gets Elm Logs together.

[Kitkat]

Wow guys seriously stop Q.Q'ing because you didn't get your loot in one run - doesn't mean the whole system should be changed. Did you get the full Askar set the first time you climbed Nyzul? This game is a grind - always has and always will be. If you don't get your loot, warp to jeuno and pick up a few more Voidstones. If you don't like the system, don't do it like the 80% of the population on most servers. The loot system is fine. Cap lights, plant TH, if you don't get it - repeat.. Drop rates are low because they are meant to be RARE items. Not items that can be found on a lvl 95 mule account. History states that you have to grind for the best gear in the game.

Uh....have you even read what the complaints are primarily about? Isn't about getting the item, or capping lights, or just doing the fight over cause it didn't drop anyway. It is the lack of check for rare/ex that is the problem with current distribution. People only mention the crappy drop rate due to the fact this compounds the lack of a check system when any additional drops in multiple fights are hitting the ground due to the person already having the rare/ex item. It would also be nice if a player could add an item to ally pool if they already had it or didn't want it cause it would never be used by them.

[Insaniac]

"Cap lights, plant TH" made me not care enough to respond to that guys post.

[Insaniac]

There would be no drama with a point system but instead we get collective suffering where everyone gets Elm Logs together.
The only complication with a point system would be creating a reason for people to do different NMs. An assault style separation of points is the only thing I can think of but that could get wonky cause you would need a separate point pool for every single NM. I don't think there's any chance of them switching to a point system for VW anyway but maybe if we scream loud enough they will use one for the other new "content".

[Xellith]

SE seems to have their heart set on dragging out voidwatch as long as possible in order to avoid adding even more interesting content maybe? Either way you slice it the loot system IS the crux of the problem and it needs to be addressed.

[Kristal]

Last night we finally got our first good T4 drops as a LS. Anhur Robe went to someone who didn't want it. Fazheluo Radiant Mail went to someone who didn't need it. Langeleik went to somebody who will never use it.

An item dropping to a person not using/wanting/lotting it is no different then the item not dropping at all. Which is the defacto standard for any good loot from NMs, particularly the ones requiring a LS.

You want a real solution? Here's one.
Prior to spawning the mob, give people the choice of loot distribution:
* Community Pool (loot falls in the normal treasure pool, but only those that chose Community Pool can see it)
* Private Pool (default, current system, each player gets his own list of loot, cannot lot Community Pool)

This choice is for each individual player. Player 1 and 2 choose private, players 3-18 choose community, result is 3 different sets of loot. Droprates are not affected. (1% drop rate remains 1% in the community pool)

[Runespider]

They make content you need almost a full alliance for then make the drops so bad that people just give up wanting to do it, people have to see some chance of reward for these things. Give it another 12 months and it will be almost impossible to build alliances to do this stuff...and people still won't have the gear they want by then.

[Mahoro]

An item dropping to a person not using/wanting/lotting it is no different then the item not dropping at all. Which is the defacto standard for any good loot from NMs, particularly the ones requiring a LS.

You want a real solution? Here's one.
Prior to spawning the mob, give people the choice of loot distribution:
* Community Pool (loot falls in the normal treasure pool, but only those that chose Community Pool can see it)
* Private Pool (default, current system, each player gets his own list of loot, cannot lot Community Pool)

This choice is for each individual player. Player 1 and 2 choose private, players 3-18 choose community, result is 3 different sets of loot. Droprates are not affected. (1% drop rate remains 1% in the community pool)

I think part of the logistical problem with setting stuff to community pool or adding drops en masse to pool is the fact that sometimes 5 items appear in someone's personal chest. If more than 2 people add all of their drops to pool for freelot, the community pool would automatically fill up and stuff would auto-sort. If 18 people in an alliance add drops to their pool, that is 90 drops to sort in the pool.

I agree VW loot needs fixing, but the solution isn't to add an "Add ALL drops to pool" option. It should be "Add THIS drop to pool" option, and people will have to coordinate and be careful in those five minutes not to add so many drops to the pool that they stack up and start auto-sorting.

[saevel]

I think part of the logistical problem with setting stuff to community pool or adding drops en masse to pool is the fact that sometimes 5 items appear in someone's personal chest. If more than 2 people add all of their drops to pool for freelot, the community pool would automatically fill up and stuff would auto-sort. If 18 people in an alliance add drops to their pool, that is 90 drops to sort in the pool.

I agree VW loot needs fixing, but the solution isn't to add an "Add ALL drops to pool" option. It should be "Add THIS drop to pool" option, and people will have to coordinate and be careful in those five minutes not to add so many drops to the pool that they stack up and start auto-sorting.

Simple solution, remove the useless crafting drops that we just toss / NPC anyway.

[blowfin]

The main problem with this "adding treasure to the loot pool" idea is it would push the rate of drops way too high to fit in with SE's game plan. If they were ever to do it, it would need to be coupled with a major decrease in drop rates to compensate for the increase in distribution of items. Then there's the issue of balancing it against groups of varying sizes. I'm amazed that people have overlooked these issues.

As it is, it's working as intended, frustrating or not. Per individual you have a certain chance of getting an item, if you can simply add it to the treasure pool if you don't want it, it's going to change drop rates for people exponentially. Say for example you have a 12 person group and your chance of getting a certain item is 5%. If 12 people then have the option of adding it to the loot pool your chance of getting that drop goes from 5% to 60%. It's not going to happen, period. Come up with another idea that's not so retarded and game breaking. Either that or be accepting of the fact that they'd need to horribly nerf drop rates to implement it.

Or we could simply go back to DKP and 21-24 hour pops. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

[Raksha]

Or we could simply go back to DKP Abyssea and 21-24 hour 1 minute ??? pops. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Yes, yes it would.

[blowfin]

Yes, yes it would.

What exactly do you plan to do when you get everything (barring 1500 heavy metal) you want from one VW run then? Whine that there isn't enough content?

[MarkovChain]

The idea is to enslave you all so that you keep doing this crap for several runs until you get your drop ... all this in order to supply the server mith more cheap metal plates or pouches. They already said they won't change the loot system so there is no need to argue. The drop system is what entirely makes voidwatch. Can't wait for the next 3000 drops for the level 99 ones. As long as it's balanced between people that want to make money doing VW and people that want to upgrade I'm ok with it.
You just have to get accostumed to the idea that building voidwatch specific linkkshells is a waste of time.

[Insaniac]

The main problem with this "adding treasure to the loot pool" idea is it would push the rate of drops way too high to fit in with SE's game plan. If they were ever to do it, it would need to be coupled with a major decrease in drop rates to compensate for the increase in distribution of items. Then there's the issue of balancing it against groups of varying sizes. I'm amazed that people have overlooked these issues.

As it is, it's working as intended, frustrating or not. Per individual you have a certain chance of getting an item, if you can simply add it to the treasure pool if you don't want it, it's going to change drop rates for people exponentially. Say for example you have a 12 person group and your chance of getting a certain item is 5%. If 12 people then have the option of adding it to the loot pool your chance of getting that drop goes from 5% to 60%. It's not going to happen, period. Come up with another idea that's not so retarded and game breaking. Either that or be accepting of the fact that they'd need to horribly nerf drop rates to implement it.

Or we could simply go back to DKP and 21-24 hour pops. Wouldn't that be wonderful?The drop rate on almost everything worthwhile is already shit. Would it be so far out of this supposed game plan if the 1 good item that dropped out of 5-20 runs went to someone who actually wanted it? Is the game plan to frustrate people into not even doing the content because they see 2 HQ bodies that they are after drop to the same person who can't even equip it? I'm not saying "add to pool" is the answer but calling it retarded compared to the worst loot system in any game ever made seems pretty silly.

[Kristal]

I think part of the logistical problem with setting stuff to community pool or adding drops en masse to pool is the fact that sometimes 5 items appear in someone's personal chest. If more than 2 people add all of their drops to pool for freelot, the community pool would automatically fill up and stuff would auto-sort. If 18 people in an alliance add drops to their pool, that is 90 drops to sort in the pool.

I think you misunderstood. The community pool would effectively be the NORMAL treasure pool. Instead of 16 people dumping their drops in one pool, you get one pool for 16 people to lot on. The private pools would get their own loot from the chest, but would not get access to the treasure pool.

What people fail to see is the math involved with 'adding unwanted drops to the pool for all to lot on'.

If you have 18 people in an alliance, a 1% drop rate becomes (100%-(100%-1%)^18)=16.5%. To compensate for a pool addition drop, SE would then have to drop that 1% droprate to 0.056% droprate. Even less if you take multiple identical drops into account.

The normal loot system has a 1% droprate, but you have to get lucky with outlotting contenders for the same item, or build enough 'favor', dkp or otherwise to get the item, OR invite someone with too much gil to buy the spare item for 2M gil.
The voidwatch system has a 1% droprate. Period. No sharing, no selling, clean.

[Reiterpallasch]

Instead of getting random logs and rocks dozens of times in a row, they should just replace those drops with little man that pops out and punches you square in the dick.

[Raksha]

What exactly do you plan to do when you get everything (barring 1500 heavy metal) you want from one VW run then? Whine that there isn't enough content?

I'd rather whine that I have everything I want than whine that the things that I want are near impossible to acquire.

[Insaniac]

Instead of getting random logs and rocks dozens of times in a row, they should just replace those drops with little man that pops out and punches you square in the dick. They could add a sound effect similar to "TOASTYYY~" from MK but it could be "TANAKAAA~"

[blowfin]

The drop rate on almost everything worthwhile is already shit. Would it be so far out of this supposed game plan if the 1 good item that dropped out of 5-20 runs went to someone who actually wanted it? Is the game plan to frustrate people into not even doing the content because they see 2 HQ bodies that they are after drop to the same person who can't even equip it? I'm not saying "add to pool" is the answer but calling it retarded compared to the worst loot system in any game ever made seems pretty silly.

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

[Nynja]

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game.

Its the right idea, but implemented very poorly. I've used this example three times allready, and because you clearly dont read the thread, I'll post it again.

You're in salvage...You kill Qiqirn Treasure Hunter...Macha's Coat drops.
Instead of casting lots, so the person who you want to get that rare item that finally dropped after going 0/100...the game randomly assigns it to someone. The person who gets it doesnt even have any mage jobs leveled. The group forces them to hold the macha's coat in storage instead of tossing or storing it.

40 runs later...
You defeat the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
You find a Macha's Coat on the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
The Macha's Coat was lost...because the game decided to auto-lot it to that person who allready had it.

[Alistaire]

Instead of getting random logs and rocks dozens of times in a row, they should just replace those drops with little man that pops out and punches you square in the dick.

Read this and thought it said "punches Square in the dick"...but then of course a comment like that would just get deleted.

[saevel]

I think you misunderstood. The community pool would effectively be the NORMAL treasure pool. Instead of 16 people dumping their drops in one pool, you get one pool for 16 people to lot on. The private pools would get their own loot from the chest, but would not get access to the treasure pool.

What people fail to see is the math involved with 'adding unwanted drops to the pool for all to lot on'.

If you have 18 people in an alliance, a 1% drop rate becomes (100%-(100%-1%)^18)=16.5%. To compensate for a pool addition drop, SE would then have to drop that 1% droprate to 0.056% droprate. Even less if you take multiple identical drops into account.

The normal loot system has a 1% droprate, but you have to get lucky with outlotting contenders for the same item, or build enough 'favor', dkp or otherwise to get the item, OR invite someone with too much gil to buy the spare item for 2M gil.
The voidwatch system has a 1% droprate. Period. No sharing, no selling, clean.

Except that's not what the game has done before. "Ultra rare" items don't have a 1% drop rate, they have a 5% drop rate (D.Ring). Rare items tend to have a 15~25% drop rate and the rest scaling from there. What SE did was create 18 individual pools, then to prevent people from getting gear too fast they dropped the rates to 1%, less then 1% for some pieces. Unfortunately you have no control over that 1%. Meaning in order for you to get your mexel harness you need to kill it more then 100 times (statistically). If you spammed one NM over and over again it would take you over a month to get those 100+ kills in. This wouldn't be too bad if they were easy quick solo fights, but their big alliance HNM fights. Meaning you need 17 other people who are willing to fight that single fight, several times per day for an entire month. Yeah that ain't gonna happen. So what your really looking at is a 6+ month wait to get the 100+ fights in. If your lucky you get it earlier, if your unlucky you get it sometime in the next year. And that's one item, if you wanted more then one item the multiply your time accordingly.

Voidwatch is a huge skinners box. If you don't know what that is then go educate yourself and look it up. It's current implementation is actually considered unethical. We do the fights just to have them cleared for when SE finally fix's the drop rates, and the ability to teleport everywhere. Honestly I think SE created VW for all the hardcore super LS's to have something to beat their head against the wall. It's for the guys who did Salvage. It's an event that gets your marginally better gear / sidegrades (remember you can buy / craft the NQ versions) but requires an insane amount of effort / luck / time.

[Insaniac]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.
Best loot pool concept? Do you really believe that? At least in other group based luck of the draw low drop rate loot systems when the shit actually dropped the people who put in the repeated effort were rewarded. Someone could desperately want a coruscanti, kill 300+ Qilins and never see it. Easily. 1000+ is absolutely in the realm of possibility. While the people he shouts for show up like "herp derp what's highly vulnerable mean?" and get the drop. Having no control over loot distribution in a group event is a terrible concept. Having multiple r/e drops go to the same person is an even more terrible concept. Putting items in that system with .2% drop rates compounds the terribleness of the first 2. No NM drop in this game has ever had less than a 1% drop rate and most of the old "top tier gear" was MUCH higher while most of the VW stuff isn't even really worth the effort. A portion of the system may have come from a place of good intent but what it amounts to is "Thanks for trying. Here's your logs. Oh BTW your BRD friend is on his 4th pair of faijin boots that he can't even wear."

[Chimerawizard]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terr

[Chimerawizard]

The drop rate in this game for top tier items has always been shit, and that's exactly what we're talking about for VW, current top tier items. Are you some sort of modern day Sherlock Holmes being able to release this golden nugget of information for people? See: Salvage, Kings, Sea, basically the entire end game for the games long history. They're meant to be rare, you're supposed to be extremely lucky or extremely dedicated to get them.

It's actually one of the best loot pool concepts they've put into this game. It does away with the need for people to manage DKP, avoids ninja lotting, avoids drama over items. It's very elegant really. People being butthurt over drop rates doesn't make it a bad loot system. You also have to prise your minds off the vapid concept that you somehow should be entitled to something from someone else's loot pool, when it's clearly been designed as an individual system.

If drop rates suck, they suck, SE will adjust them (like they said actually) if they feel it's the right time and it won't change the game balance too much.

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terrible drop rate. 1% of the time for a rare item? Okay, I can spam this NM a whole lot in a week instead of, say Niddhogg who only spawned like one a week and with crap drop rate. Also, the fact that multiple can drop at the same time(different loot pools) means if it does show in my chest, I don't pass it to someone else. A 5% drop rate /6 ppl is <1%. assuming at least 6 ppl want.

[Raksha]

I fully agree with you. I have seen my LS get 7 guns from one t4. I don't think it is that terrible drop rate. 1% of the time for a rare item? Okay, I can spam this NM a whole lot in a week instead of, say Niddhogg who only spawned like one a week and with crap drop rate. Also, the fact that multiple can drop at the same time(different loot pools) means if it does show in my chest, I don't pass it to someone else. A 5% drop rate /6 ppl is <1%. assuming at least 6 ppl want.

You realize that the gun isn't the rare drop from caelano right?

http://images.bluegartr.com/wiki/thumb/a/a8/Anhur_Robe_description.png/300px-Anhur_Robe_description.png

In about 30 runs my LS still hasn't seen one of these bodies.

[Chimerawizard]

Yes, I realize that. Just the first thing that pop'd in my mind as Tons of drops off a single kill atm. I could give other examples. Numbers weren't that high though. 2-3...

[Insaniac]

You realize that the gun isn't the rare drop from caelano right?

http://images.bluegartr.com/wiki/thumb/a/a8/Anhur_Robe_description.png/300px-Anhur_Robe_description.png

In about 30 runs my LS still hasn't seen one of these bodies.My LS has never seen one either. Probably in the ballpark of 30 runs as well.

[blowfin]

Its the right idea, but implemented very poorly. I've used this example three times allready, and because you clearly dont read the thread, I'll post it again.

You're in salvage...You kill Qiqirn Treasure Hunter...Macha's Coat drops.
Instead of casting lots, so the person who you want to get that rare item that finally dropped after going 0/100...the game randomly assigns it to someone. The person who gets it doesnt even have any mage jobs leveled. The group forces them to hold the macha's coat in storage instead of tossing or storing it.

40 runs later...
You defeat the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
You find a Macha's Coat on the Qiqirn Treasure Hunter.
The Macha's Coat was lost...because the game decided to auto-lot it to that person who allready had it.

I totally understand your point, not sure how reading the rest of the thread would make a difference to be honest. You'd assume they'd be adjusting drop rates upwards to compensate for that 1/6 (or w/e your group size is) chance you might be subjected to with an individual pool in an event like Salvage. Seems they haven't done it quite right in the case of Voidwatch from what I'm reading. So again, the main issue seems to be drop rates, If you can manage to dissociate other people's loot pools from your own wants (hard concept after years of shared loot pools I know). People do make an interesting point about R/E items dropping to the same people mutliple times though, what happened to the Abyssea system where R/E items don't drop if everyone in the group (in voidwatch just yourself) already has them? I'm guessing it was a bit of a pain to implement in Voidwatch for individual pools.

[Elanabelle]

/poke /poke /poke

Dear development staff,

You still need to fix the Voidwatch loot distribution system!

It's great that you're allowing us to use "symbols" in the headers for Macros, and I love that you're planning to prevent the Paralyze effect from causing Item loss ... nice ideas, really, and long overdue.

But COME ON! Maybe not everyone would agree, but those aforementioned "fixes" rate about ... a "1" on a scale of "1 to 5" where 5 means "really good, highly desired and needed fix".

Fix Voidwatch loot distribution. Make it a priority, seriously, please.

We just simply don't need all those Teak Logs, Beech Logs, Gold Ores, Mythril Ingots, Ebony Logs, and Platinum Ores. We really don't.
By NO means am I suggesting anything radical like a 40 or 50% drop rate on the best, most uncommon loot. I don't want "easy mode" ... so "inb4" any of those comments. I want to enjoy the challenge of Voidwatch, and I want to be excited and have a sense of accomplishment when I do receive a "really good" loot item. But I KNOW I am not being unreasonable when I say the drop rate on said loot should DEFINITELY be in the 10-15% range ... and not the 1-3% range that we're currently all experiencing.

S-E FFXI team, please fix Voidwatch ... and please don't wait until 2014 to do it.

Thanks

[ShadowViper]

Not reading every post so may be saying stuff thats been stated...

Overall I think the concepts behind voidwatch is really good but the major problems with it most lie around the loot system.

The ability to not pool the rare/ex items atleast with the "cost to participate" discourages people from helping. Why would you pay (stone cost) to fight a mob when you want nothing and can not give the items you didn't want to others. Atleast if they could give their items away they would have some incentive to participate. This also means the few who have access to spawn the mob don't keep fighting the mob till everyone has what they want they move on as soon as they are done with the mob.

Also, if your not going to allow moving the rare/ex items to pool then why allow the same item to drop multiple times. This becomes extremely frustrating on the person recieving and to the rest especially those wanting the items. The more you discourage people again less chance they are going to participate.

The mobs difficulty is not an issue whats so ever I have done every t3 Jeuno and most can be done in a matter of minutes with a good group, they problem comes from having some triggers that are near impossible to work such as sch abilities that either have long wait times (modus veritas) that doesnt even land when used or giving BLU a ton of staggers so they aren't capable of having most set for the fight (which was an issue for abys on non timed mobs so why bring it back on timed mobs).

And lastly the drop rate with capped lights and the cells MOST the time your still not going to get some of the better loot. Normally I wouldn't care with poor drop rates but in a system where your limited by a popping cost (the stones) then your almost required to pay some sort of currency (the cells) and lastly did the work of getting the staggers (not just killing the mob) to not get back anything but trash drops is a bit insulting which again discourages people from participating.

[Dais]

I have not read the full 25 page thread here so my apologies for any redundant feedback. If I am repeating anything someone else said let me know the post number and I will like that post with the vigor of an antican phalanx raiding a picnic.
I agree with those calling for a change to voidwatch (and by extension the new walk of echos) treasure distribution system. The 'chests for everyone' concept is golden, but the implementation dose not seem well thought out. It is a horrid hybrid beast of the new and vibrant system that is yet to be completed and the undead husk of the old unbalanced system.
The low rate items appear in these chests is one issue. I was under the impression from abyssea and the changes to dynamis and salvage that the days of endlessly spamming content for .5% drop rate item was over. I rather liked that idea and it disheartens me to see reports of how scarce the better weapons from voidwatch chapter two are. Is it not the purpose of targeting weakness to be able to work for your items and put effort in for a noticeable increase at the chance for the desired items? Needing to repeatedly target weaknesses and trade ascendance items to upgrade your light potency to 350% for a 1% chance at the desired item spits in the face of that concept.
The most frustrating thing is seeing great items go to people who cannot make use of them. Recently in a battle against Qilin I was hoping NOT to get faijin boots or coruscanti so it wouldn't depress thieves present that someone with a mere 220 dagger skill and only subjob level thief and ranger got an item they desired so much. Likewise I am thrilled to be the owner of an omphalos bullet but the two sceamol bands were treasure I was significantly less enthusiastic to find. There is just no sense in seeing items you can't equip on ANY of your jobs or rare items that you already own and can't even remove from the chests.

I propose before beginning a battle with this style of reward we are allowed to chose which items we want to work for. A simple selection at the planar rifts (or verticle conflux in walk of echos) comprised of: armor, weapons, accessories, and magian trial upgrade items, would be great for taking some of the randomness out of the system and maybe spur on the community at large to embrace these events which seem to have a lukewarm reception.
I do NOT believe the ability to pool items would be healthy since if you chose to keep something your companions dubbed irrelevant for you there would be a heavy stigma of greed associated with not pooling items -if there is going to be an element of luck to it don't make the players responsible for placing a bandage on the misfortune of those around them- real friends will find a way to help regardless.


P.S. Please take it easy on the death and zombie curse dev team. I'm glad you guys are exploring new design space, but that stuff is seriously not fun when it's in every other fight.

[MarkovChain]

SE doesn't care on what each individual can get, they care on the global rate of armor distribution on a whole server. For them wether a "good gear" (let's assume that exists) goes to a gimp with the wrong jobs leveled instead of the guy that has an empy, a relic and a mythic in the job doesn't matter.

[Elanabelle]

If the game can tabulate your amount of Zeni based on how many stupid photographs you give to a NPC, and can tabulate your amount of Therion Ichor based on your victories in Einherjar ... then there is NO reason that S-E can't or shouldn't implement a similar system for Voidwatch loot.

"Void Points" (or whatever the hell you'd like to call them) could be awarded for each victory in Voidwatch. The more difficult VWNM's would award larger amounts of "Void Points". "Capping your lights" would award slightly more "Void Points". S-E could implement a daily cap on the number of times one can be awarded "Void Points" for each VWNM (this would prevent groups from spam-killing the really weak VWNM's for Points).

Then, the player exchanges his/her "Void Points" for items.

I do not see why this wouldn't work or shouldn't be implemented.

The current system for Voidwatch loot is absolute crap, and everyone knows it. It's really too bad, too, because (outside of Temporary Items abuse) many of the Voidwatch battles are challenging and can be fun.

[Kristal]

"Void Points" (or whatever the hell you'd like to call them) could be awarded for each victory in Voidwatch. The more difficult VWNM's would award larger amounts of "Void Points". "Capping your lights" would award slightly more "Void Points". S-E could implement a daily cap on the number of times one can be awarded "Void Points" for each VWNM (this would prevent groups from spam-killing the really weak VWNM's for Points).

Then, the player exchanges his/her "Void Points" for items.

I do not see why this wouldn't work or shouldn't be implemented.

The current system for Voidwatch loot is absolute crap, and everyone knows it. It's really too bad, too, because (outside of Temporary Items abuse) many of the Voidwatch battles are challenging and can be fun.

The loot system isn't crap. People just hate not being in control of who gets what or how many times.
Oh, and logs logs logs. People hate logs. Except woodworkers.

Even with a point system, you will still not be able to just buy anything. Taking Einherjar as an example,
you could buy crafting items to make a Nefer Kalasiris, but you would not be able to buy a Heka's Kalasiris.
Accesories such as (ear)rings or Deluxe Animator, but not any armor or weapons.

Personally, I think it would be better if SE gave an option to peek into the chest first, and if you don't like the looks of it, send it back into the void and get 1 heavy metal for it. Possible a few more if there's rare/ex stuff in it. It might require some balancing, so that metal drop rate is adjusted based on the popularity of the NM. VW officers could give NMs a priority, and extra metal droprate would improve or decrease based on this priority ranking. Killing a NM often lowers it's priority rank, leaving one alone increases it's priority rank.

[Urat]

Personally, I think it would be better if SE gave an option to peek into the chest first, and if you don't like the looks of it, send it back into the void and get 1 heavy metal for it. Possible a few more if there's rare/ex stuff in it. It might require some balancing, so that metal drop rate is adjusted based on the popularity of the NM. VW officers could give NMs a priority, and extra metal droprate would improve or decrease based on this priority ranking. Killing a NM often lowers it's priority rank, leaving one alone increases it's priority rank.

I was thinking maybe add the option to send the chest back, and in return you get 100% all lights capped on your next fight. That'd be a pretty solid temporary fix.

The main reason SE isn't do anything in regards to item drop rates atm is probably because they're still screwing around with difficulty levels of the fights.

Once they've managed to hit a nice level of difficulty for VW then we can expect them to turn to drop rates, and change the drop rate to reflect the difficulty level.

Right now as of white procc and fanatics/fools, VW is set to super easy mode, and I'm sure SE is going to turn the difficulty up a bit more with each update until we get a nice level. Once we hit that I'm sure we can expect something to help with drop rates to reflect difficulty level. Until then it's hard to do anything about drop rate when there's no difficulty level to reflect off of.

Edit: Actually now after going through the voidtone thread, I think there's an even more perfect solution:

Add the ability to destroy your chest instead of take anything out of it, and in return you don't use up your voidstone, and you only get the equivalent rewards as if you had never used the stone in the first place.

This would extend the use of our voidstones and make getting double drops a lot less worse, while also giving us a psuedo secondary reward, which is basically a new voidstone in a way from the chest.

[Dreamin]

I didn't forget about you guys! I’ve been discussing all of your concerns and comments with the team regarding the Voidwatch drop system, and it has taken some time to reach a final conclusion.

It was decided that there will not be any fundamental changes to the drop system to make it possible to add item drops to the treasure pool, as the team does not believe this is not where the main crux of the problem lies.

However! The development team will be making adjustments in the future to reduce the overall length of each battle. In addition, when they add more chapters to the Voidwatch system, and introduce even stronger monsters, the drop rates for these tougher challenges will be increased beyond what is currently in place.

Camata, maybe the Dev Team dont' understands the frustrations the playbase have with the Loot System. And here's how you can tell them how the playerbase feels:

Tell them to go "POUND SAND". THAT is exactly how we feels right now.

I think most of us feels like we are freaking talking to a wall here with all the feedbback that we are giving. It's CLEAR that they are so detached with the playerbase that they should NOT be developing anything for us anymore. Seriously, just let the game die. That's how I feel at this point.

Sorry that you're taking on all the heat and I understands you're just the messenger.

[Camate]

Greetings!

We will be implementing the below adjustments to Voidwatch during this week’s test server update.


Addition of same battle content as Route: Jeuno 2 - Fort Karugo-Narugo [S] to Beaucedine Glacier.
※Beaudedine Glacier has been added to the list of teleports offered by the Atmacite Refiner.
※The above addition is a provisional change.


The below monsters’ AoE damage to non-targeted players (※) will be lowered.
※Amount of damage dealt to pets will also be lowered.

<table width="580" border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="30%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Route</td><td width="30%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Battle Area</td><td width="40%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Monster Name</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Route: San d’Oria</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3"> King Ranperre's Tomb </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Hahava</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Route: Bastok</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Dangruf Wadi</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Celaeno</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef">Route: Windurst</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3"> Outer Horutoto Ruins </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Voidwrought</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef" rowspan="3">Route: Jeuno</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Qufim Island </td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Kaggen</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Lower Delkfutt's Tower </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Akvan</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Behemoth’s Dominion</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Pil</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef" rowspan="3">Route: Zilart</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Ru'Aun Gardens </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Aello</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Ve'Lugannon Palace </td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Uptala</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">The Shrine of Ru'Avitau </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Qilin</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#c6e9ef" rowspan="5">Route: Jeuno 2</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Grauberg [S]</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Ocythoe</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Vunkerl Inlet [S]</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Gaunab</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb"> Fort Karugo-Narugo [S] <br>Beaucedine Glacier </td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Kalasutrax</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Valkurm Dunes </td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Ig-Alima</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Buburimu Peninsula </td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Botulus Rex</td></tr></table>


We will continue to make adjustments as we see how the current AoE damage adjustments affect battles going forward, so please be sure to submit any feedback you have.