any plans to add new summons for SMN job? [Brynhildr-Hecatoncheir]

[hordecore]

or Bahamut or Phoenix? i really would like to see Phoenix at 99 he can prove to be useful for bosses since he got many good spells if i remember correctly in

Final Fantasy VI:
Raise
Arise
Reraise
Curaga
Firaga

[Elexia]

SMN just got Alexander and Odin :| lol. Story wise I don't think Phoenix would be possible, especially given how it's unlikely we'd even go to the first plot point (Far East).

[Alhanelem]

[To the hordecore] GO AWAY.

[To the rest] Atomos is the most likely candidate for a new avatar, given its association with the wings of the goddess expansion.

[Korpg]

They already said no to Bahamut.

Phoenix is probably a no also.

PS2 Limitations is probably a good reason (not the real reason, just a good one) for no to any others.

Although I would like to have a couple more avatars to beat stuff up with.

[Malamasala]

Ironically Odin does less damage than my avatars these days in Abyssea. So the 2 new ones are as useless as the 8 old ones. Time for a new 2 hour I guess. One that still works on level 100 monsters.

[Greatguardian]

Perfect Defense is obviously the most useless thing in the entire game ever.

[Malamasala]

It is, unless you have a party of overpowered jobs along with it.

[Olor]

I think more of everything including summons would be nice, but not very necessary.

[Greatguardian]

It is, unless you have a party of overpowered jobs along with it.

Oh, my mistake. Here I was under the impression that you wanted Summoner to be more useful in a group setting. If you're only worried about solo, where Summoner already excels anyways, then yes, Perfect Defense is pretty useless.

[Eadieni]

If you think Perfect Defense is useless you haven't done fell cleaves with one.

[Malamasala]

Oh, my mistake. Here I was under the impression that you wanted Summoner to be more useful in a group setting. If you're only worried about solo, where Summoner already excels anyways, then yes, Perfect Defense is pretty useless.

Oh, so now being useful once every 2 hours is something we strive for? I thought we wanted to make Summoner useful the other 117 minutes as well.

[Leonlionheart]

Oh, so now being useful once every 2 hours is something we strive for? I thought we wanted to make Summoner useful the other 117 minutes as well.

SMN has always only really had niche situations to be useful for anyway.

I honestly don't think there is a job that is as poor overall quality as SMN. I mean, at least PUP can use Victory Smite...

[Alhanelem]

It is, unless you have a party of overpowered jobs along with it.
Posts like this one make me wish for a dislike button. Alexander is one of the greatest 2 hour abilities in the game. You have Alex to thank for Absolute Virtue finally being beaten without abusing bugs or terrain.

Odin is a great oh shit button when you're alone and catch aggro or something. instead of distracting it, you can just kill it on the spot.

Oh and how about 10998 damage to king behemoth? That's better than I could do with others.

[Korpg]

Posts like this one make me wish for a dislike button. Alexander is one of the greatest 2 hour abilities in the game. You have Alex to thank for Absolute Virtue finally being beaten without abusing bugs or terrain.

Odin is a great oh shit button when you're alone and catch aggro or something. instead of distracting it, you can just kill it on the spot.

Oh and how about 10998 damage to king behemoth? That's better than I could do with others.

You forgot to add that every damage done to a mob (NM or otherwise) including Zantetsuken is 100% hate free on the SMN.

Which is really nice for survival methods.

[Malamasala]

Of course if you have a tank, hate free doesn't matter until you reach hate cap. You'd be able to deal like 10k damage without the hate free ability, like any other job. The question is if you need to deal more than 10k to kill the mob. People who just assume hate free is a bonus really don't pay attention to game mechanics.


Oh and how about 10998 damage to king behemoth? That's better than I could do with others.

And how many King Behemoths do you kill per month? It is pretty pointless to be awesome at something that doesn't happen.


You have Alex to thank for Absolute Virtue finally being beaten without abusing bugs or terrain.

Yea, and apart from AV and PW I don't think I've used the 2 hour at all. Again, extremely rarely situations where they are used. They are good at those times of course, but a 2 hour that you use on like 5 monsters total? Ever hear of a MNK or WHM that only use their 2 hours on 5 specific NMs in the game?

Besides I consider zerg tactics exploits and not in the least fun. Beating AV with PD is not an accomplishment. It isn't trivial, but it is all about using overpowered melee jobs that you overpowered even more by removing their damage taken.

[Soundwave]

Besides I consider zerg tactics exploits and not in the least fun. Beating AV with PD is not an accomplishment. It isn't trivial, but it is all about using overpowered melee jobs that you overpowered even more by removing their damage taken

I agree with everything you said but this, everything you do in this game requires some form of strategy...its almost like saying level 20 avatars are an exploit because its easier.

But I do strongly support the uselessness/rare occurrence of our new 2 hours for fights that very rarely happen to most.

[Korpg]

Of course if you have a tank, hate free doesn't matter until you reach hate cap. You'd be able to deal like 10k damage without the hate free ability, like any other job. The question is if you need to deal more than 10k to kill the mob. People who just assume hate free is a bonus really don't pay attention to game mechanics.


I consider it a bonus.

How many jobs do you know that could do 10k damage right from the start and not get hate?

I mean, sure, you can hit hate cap really easy without much effort, but if you die, thats 5 minutes of waiting around being gimp or not doing anything. If an avatar dies, who cares?

[Alhanelem]

Besides I consider zerg tactics exploits and not in the least fun.Zerging is not an exploit. Period. What exactly is being exploited? Nothing. You're simply using brute force to kill as fast as possible and hope you don't die. No flaw in the game is being capitalzied on other than SE's lack of creating mobs with counters for zerg tactics (e.g. mobs with physical absorb for instance)

The only prevention of zerg in most of abyssea with few exceptions is procs. And once you have the procs, you zerg it down anyway.

It doesn't matter how rarely you use your 2-hour. If it serves a purpose well, then it's good. Also, if you're farming in abyssea and you aren't using Odin every few minutes when you get a 2hour chest, then something's wrong. :p

[Malamasala]

How many jobs do you know that could do 10k damage right from the start and not get hate?

I'll play along. The amount of jobs that can pull massive hate at start and die are: BLM

All other jobs who could pull massive hate with 10k damage, would just be the new tank and be cured by your local WHM.

Which brings me back to the point that being hate free does squat unless you are a weak ass mage over-DDing. Not to mention it will take you like 5 minutes to do 10k damage with SMN outside Abyssea, and a BLM pacing their 10k damage over 5 minutes will do rather well with hate as well.

I'm trying to think back to when there really was any form of hate problems at all in this game. I can think of Tiamat, when you throw 12 BLMs at it, nuking freely every time they are in the air, and pulling hate at around 20% HP left on Tiamat. Yea, PLD tanks are that broken that you can just spam nuke on BLM and survive for 80% of a HNM fight. Pace yourself and you'll never pull hate.

I'd think I'd notice hate free being a positive thing, having played since 2003. I do think that if you have really bad tanks and melee, SMN is great. Basically SMN lifts any crap party into mediocre. But it can't bring you past mediocre.

[Malamasala]

Zerging is not an exploit. Period. What exactly is being exploited? Nothing. You're simply using brute force to kill as fast as possible and hope you don't die. No flaw in the game is being capitalzied on other than SE's lack of creating mobs with counters for zerg tactics (e.g. mobs with physical absorb for instance)

You know what zerging is? Cheese.

It is like cannon rushing someone in SC2. Or if you were to 6 pool them. And do you know why these strategies are called cheese? Because it is a "win or die" strategy. You can't change strategy mid fight because you've put all your eggs in one basket.

You are allowed to do it, but don't expect anything to consider it an accomplishment (except for the people who do zerg).

[Leonlionheart]

You know what zerging is? Cheese.

It is like cannon rushing someone in SC2. Or if you were to 6 pool them. And do you know why these strategies are called cheese? Because it is a "win or die" strategy. You can't change strategy mid fight because you've put all your eggs in one basket.

You are allowed to do it, but don't expect anything to consider it an accomplishment (except for the people who do zerg).

Who the hell doesn't zerg at this point in the game?

[Alhanelem]

"cheese" or "lame tactics' is fine. "exploit" I have an issue with. There is no bug or malfunction, or unintended use of a game mechanic involved.

[Soundwave]

You know what zerging is? Cheese.

It is like cannon rushing someone in SC2. Or if you were to 6 pool them. And do you know why these strategies are called cheese? Because it is a "win or die" strategy. You can't change strategy mid fight because you've put all your eggs in one basket.

You are allowed to do it, but don't expect anything to consider it an accomplishment (except for the people who do zerg).

You only get cheesed if you don't scout.

However cannon rushing is a strat many do it(Not much to it but requires some planning.), even in diamond league...of course you see it more so in bronze in silver

[Korpg]

I'll play along. The amount of jobs that can pull massive hate at start and die are: BLM

All other jobs who could pull massive hate with 10k damage, would just be the new tank and be cured by your local WHM.

Which brings me back to the point that being hate free does squat unless you are a weak ass mage over-DDing. Not to mention it will take you like 5 minutes to do 10k damage with SMN outside Abyssea, and a BLM pacing their 10k damage over 5 minutes will do rather well with hate as well.

I'm trying to think back to when there really was any form of hate problems at all in this game. I can think of Tiamat, when you throw 12 BLMs at it, nuking freely every time they are in the air, and pulling hate at around 20% HP left on Tiamat. Yea, PLD tanks are that broken that you can just spam nuke on BLM and survive for 80% of a HNM fight. Pace yourself and you'll never pull hate.

I'd think I'd notice hate free being a positive thing, having played since 2003. I do think that if you have really bad tanks and melee, SMN is great. Basically SMN lifts any crap party into mediocre. But it can't bring you past mediocre.

Inside Abyssea, you are right. You can have the new DD a tank while the WHM cureskins you for a while.

Outside Abyssea, only one job is capable of doing 10k damage in one attack: SMN. More specifically: Odin.

That is, 10k damage without any mobs that doubles/triples damage from attacks.

Sure, the BLM can do 10k damage first, and have the enmity - gear to pull it off, but they still have a buttload of hate built up, one of which that all it takes is the tank dying and boom, there goes the BLM next, and maybe other mages because that BLM just pulled the NM next to the mages to use a nasty AoE move.

Besides, what sort of event would you actually be doing where there are a bunch of really bad tanks and melee either inside or outside of abyssea? Pickup Absolute Virtues? Pickup Rajas without brews? Do those even exist?

[Nynja]

Besides I consider zerg tactics exploits and not in the least fun. Beating AV with PD is not an accomplishment. It isn't trivial, but it is all about using overpowered melee jobs that you overpowered even more by removing their damage taken.

If SE didnt nerf every attempt to kill AV, then it would not have gotten to the point of "use Perf Def and zerg down". Except AV basically has to be zerged in that fashion because it has such rape capability even on lv90's.

[Greatguardian]

A BLM that worries about their enmity is a BLM that needs a new group to roll with. In or outside Abyssea. Every time.

[Malamasala]

You only get cheesed if you don't scout.

AV never scouts.


There is no bug or malfunction, or unintended use of a game mechanic involved.

Well, it is just a matter of opinion. 2 houring kraken DRKs were apparently not the intended method, while 2 houring WARs/SAMs with perfect defense was.

I'm sure SE just gave up on fixing AV exploits and said "screw this, you can zerg my AV. I'm making a new HNM. Bigger! Better! And you can't zerg it because it absorbs damage!". It is also possible SE wanted SMNs to use perfect defense for something in this game, instead of just ignoring the BP.

[Soundwave]

AV never scouts.

He actual does in his own way, but does not need to!

In SC2 as you should already know when facing AI, it scouts...don't matter what difficulty it scouts for a no reason...it just scouts. The AI will follow its difficulty order and carry out its plan vs you.

In FFXI AV, he follows the same orders his 2 hours, he will carry out his random 2 hour abi when the army of drk's with kclubs come at him and use Invincible.

In the end the goal is to learn and create a start vs the AI to beat it.

Another example,

Bahamut round2: Normal fight around 30min or so....to complete or u can just zerg it to death get your drops and get out and save what used to be a full alliance of people times...so they can do other things the game has to offer....or u can sit on 10 pop sets or so and do the normal fight 10x for 30+ min....I'm gonna pick zerg, because it gets the job done.

Back on track, I hope they separate 2 hour timers for Odin/Alex or let us actually use them.

[Atomic_Skull]

Doomtrain please.

[Luvbunny]

I rather the developer focus on what we currently have as summoner, fix a few of the BP, BP timer, separation of BP buff, ward, and rage - fixing the spirits - adding more gears/weapon to summoner. Perhaps update the reward gears you get from defeating avatars. Things that are more useful than adding another complication with new BPs.

[Raxiaz]

"Phoenix" (2-Hr only)
Raises all party members (R3 effect, no weakness), restores them to full health, and grants temporary buffs for 1 minute. Buffs include an increase to all stats, and a 20 HP regen, 10 MP refresh. ^^

[Luvbunny]

They will never do that Phoenix with that stats, it is way too good. Granting a reraise 3 and reduce weakness to 90 seconds would seems to be fair - 10 HP regen and 5 mp refresh would also be more feasible. Buffs should be adding phys and magic defense to 40 points. I rather have the effect last 240 seconds and up to 5 mnts if you have summon magic capped.

[Raxiaz]

No weakness, or I'd never use Phoenix as a 2-hour on SMN. Ever. I don't even play the job, but I'd like to. Everything else is eh. A raise once every two hours and saves you 5 minutes of waiting is a 2hour. If it reduced the duration to 90 seconds, that just doesn't seem worth it enough to me.

[Korpg]

No weakness, or I'd never use Phoenix as a 2-hour on SMN. Ever. I don't even play the job, but I'd like to. Everything else is eh. A raise once every two hours and saves you 5 minutes of waiting is a 2hour. If it reduced the duration to 90 seconds, that just doesn't seem worth it enough to me.

It would actually bring meaning for Astral Flow outside of AV or PW now.

[Hordecora]

No weakness, or I'd never use Phoenix as a 2-hour on SMN. Ever. I don't even play the job, but I'd like to. Everything else is eh. A raise once every two hours and saves you 5 minutes of waiting is a 2hour. If it reduced the duration to 90 seconds, that just doesn't seem worth it enough to me.

i would like to see Phoenix too

[Sparthos]

You silly geese, Phoenix is an impossibility because she's currently fused with Sel'theus after the events of CoP where she expended what was left of her strength in the Phoenix blade to save you from Bahamut's Mega Flare. Unless you want to summon a pale, scrawny Kuluu then we're never seeing Phoenix.

The only reason we got Alexander was because the Aht Urhgan scientists decided to build his soul a mobile suit to take over the world! Thank that Galka PUP in whitegate for his contributions to zerg science because without it we'd have never beaten Absolute Virtue and dat lisp.

Absolute Virtue: "At lassst the time has come...
Throw...
The ssscattered fragments of my thoughtsss once again mine. Long forgotten memoriesss filling me once more...
some...
However... these memories generate sssuffering... These thoughtsss... bring remorssse...
Ridills...
Tell me... for what sssearcheth thou, to travel this far? Show me... by what principlesss art thou driven?"
ON SOME SHIT!

Good thing I got my Ebody and a pair of Gaiters.

And you guys lol'd at PUPs? The jokes on you.

Bahamut is the only avatar that SE has balked on giving because he's the goddamn wyrmking and he's too cool to be called for trivial matters like your level 12 Goblin problem. Nevermind he got nearly captured by some Zilart 3 chapters into CoP, got tongue-lashed by a loli lead character, pummeled twice by a no-name adventurer and lost his title to Promathia on 'roids in Abyssea. He's still too cool for you guys to use.

Wyrmking? So last, last, last expansion pack Bahamut. Meet the Wyrm God Shinryu.

My contribution to a troll thread.

[Alhanelem]

Holy Necrobump, Batman!

[Hordecora]

Holy Necrobump, Batman!
what the yuke dude said