[ATTN] (One-Handed) Relic Weapon Offhand Limitation

[Sama]

Can the dev team please consider removing the offhand limitation for one-handed relic weapon?

[Xellith]

Your post doesn't make much sense to me. Since H2H are actually TWO weapons - one per first.

Ive always wanted to use two different H2H weapons since the fomors do it and it makes em look cool. Just not sure how it could be implemented without breaking monk... Maybe have it so that each fist is one weapon? And you have to buy H2H in pairs? So you can mix em up? Thats all I can see working. Unless you are just talking about using grips.

[Bumbeen]

He's talking aboit relics being gimped in offhand.

[Sama]

Your post doesn't make much sense to me. Since H2H are actually TWO weapons - one per first.

Ive always wanted to use two different H2H weapons since the fomors do it and it makes em look cool. Just not sure how it could be implemented without breaking monk... Maybe have it so that each fist is one weapon? And you have to buy H2H in pairs? So you can mix em up? Thats all I can see working. Unless you are just talking about using grips.

When you put a one-handed relic weapon (i.e. kikoku) offhand, you do not get the buff from the weapon.

This has nothing to do with H2H or two-handed relic weapon. It's as clear as it is.

[Atomic_Skull]

There's no reason we shouldn't get the ATT+35 from a 1H relic offhand when we get the Stat+15 from an empyrean offhand.

Not getting the WS I understand, but not getting the stat buffs is just dumb.

[Alhanelem]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.

[wish12oz]

They should really put aftermath effects on offhands as well. 2 handed weapons get their aftermaths 100% of the time, why does dual wielding need aftermath effects nerfed, all the 1 handed weapon users are severely behind anyway, might as well help them out a bit by allowing it as well as stat boosts from offhanding relics/mythics.

[CrAZYVIC]

Taking the mandau as example. Maybe ask for mercy stroke in the off hand is a lot. But have the 35 attack will be awesome. The mandau is increible weapon, low delay great attack and great base damage.

[Kincard]

I approve. If a player puts forth all the effort to obtain two relics/mythics I don't think it's unreasonable to give them the bonuses of both weapons.

[CrAZYVIC]

Outside abbysea example

95 STR / DEX Two handers jobs = 71 Attack / 71 acu
95 STR / DEX DW and Hand to hand = 47 attack / 47 acu

Outside abbysea is 24 attack and 24 acu the diference Two handers vs DW

Abbysea example

200 STR / DEX = 150 attack / 150 acu
200 STR / DEX = 100 attack / 100 acu

Inside abbysea taking high stats is 50 the diference.

Remember the Two handers guys use 75% str and dex. DW only 50%

Giving us the option for use /sub hand buffs will be fair for DW guys and unfair for the monks lol =(

[Coldbrand]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.

Or people can continue to do as they please seeing as how you're not a moderator.

[Runespider]

In the past this was less of an issue but I agree it would be good to be able to use the WS and get the buffs from offhand weapons these days. Aftermath from main only obviously though.

[Eeek]

I approve. If a player puts forth all the effort to obtain two relics/mythics I don't think it's unreasonable to give them the bonuses of both weapons.

I know I'm going against the grain here, but I'm strangely okay with losing stats from an offhanded relic/mythic.

Wish does have a good point in regards to the aftermaths only affecting one weapon, though. I have no problem with the limitations on an offhanded relic/mythic since most jobs simply can't wield two empyrean/relic/mythic weapons at the same time and enjoy the stat bonuses from both, but, the aftermath on 1handed empyreans/relics/mythics really should affect both weapons.

If DDs with 2handed weapons (and MNKs/PUPs) can enjoy their weapon's aftermath on 100% of their swings, so should DDs with 1handed weapons. That would be a fair tradeoff. 1handed DDs shouldn't be in a lose-lose situation: no stats from an offhanded relic/mythic AND no aftermath on the offhand weapon.

[Greatguardian]

Just for clarification, MNK/PUP do not in fact get their aftermath on 100% of swings. Verethragna can only ODD on the offhand :(. Technically we don't really get stat boosts on our relics/Emps on both hands either, since we're limited to one weapon total and thus the stat only goes in once. Principally speaking, H2H is the "worst off" of the Empyrean class in regards to how their weapons are treated (1H), and how their weapon stats apply. MNK's baller as hell though so I'm not complaining. We also pretty much gameshark the Weapon Rank code, and D=3+Skill*.11 puts us so far ahead of the game that there's really nothing anyone can do to make Mnk not-awesome.

[Eeek]

Well then, I stand corrected.

[Atomic_Skull]

Giving us the option for use /sub hand buffs will be fair for DW guys and unfair for the monks lol =(

H2H weapons are not comparable to 1H weapons because of how H2H base DMG is calculated. They have a significant advantage over 1H, and in fact a much larger advantage than 2H users.

[CrAZYVIC]

H2H weapons are not comparable to 1H weapons because of how H2H base DMG is calculated. They have a significant advantage over 1H, and in fact a much larger advantage than 2H users.

Yeah H2H damage is like this

(389)/9.1 X 0.9 + 3 = 41 + 29 (attack 29 dmg trial magian weapon) = 70 damage per hand

But H2H only use the 50% from STR and DEX like 1 DW jobs, that was my point. In ths moment in the game maybe 24 attack and 24 acu is just a few diference.

[Hayai]

I agree I recently got my kannagi to 85 and was messing w/ kikoku off hand and was very disappointed to see that the +35 attack AND the addtnl effect para are completely null in the off-hand.... basically just a standard weapons w/ decent dmg and okay delay... I hope SE would consider allowing for the attack and additional effects to be available in the offhand... I can understand the non-relic ws (mythic can be used by any1 that unlocked) and maybe even the no aftermath effect on off-hand but comeon I spent looooong time to get my relic and now its an inventory -1 item inside abyssea and even outside in some situations

[Airget]

It's very tricky cause you do have to take into consideration, even though a 1 hand weapon user can wield a relic mythic or empyrean at the same time doesn't mean they should, if that makes any sense. What I mean is 2 handed users don't have the option to do that so in essence there would be an imbalance to allow such a thing to be done with relic weapons.

If I had one suggestion for mythic/relic/empyrean would be to create an empyrean trial that combined mythic/relic, relic/empyrean, empyrean/mythic or all three together to make a unique stronger weapon that took advantage of both weapon effects. Granted I would say the trial itself would prolly be half the challenge of obtaining a relic/mythic/empyrean weapon but overall it would allow those who obtained the weapons a chance to make use out of both of them, granted they would have to sacrifice them and turn them into completely different weapons lol.

But in this sense it would be balanced cause at least both 1 handed and 2 handed users would have access to the trials and ability to make use of the weapons they worked to get.

I mean if you think about it 1 handed users already have an advantage with magian trials since they have the option to get double the stat bonuses while 2 handed users can only get one. Though I do have a simple suggestion for that which would be to make grip trials that give the STR/ATT etc. bonuses lol.

But ya, I mean I do understand the work it takes to get both but at the same time 2 handed users do the same thing but they don't have that option so overall it's not really fair to say, ok we'll remove the gimp of off-handing relics. If a rep does respond to this they will most like say "After investigation we have determined that do to the inability for 2 handed relic users the option to use both a relic/mythic/empyrean weapon we feel at this time that allowing 1 handed relic users full use of their weapons attributes on off-hand to be imbalanced"

[Malacite]

There's no reason we shouldn't get the ATT+35 from a 1H relic offhand when we get the Stat+15 from an empyrean offhand.

Not getting the WS I understand, but not getting the stat buffs is just dumb.


Actually I'm pretty sure you do in fact get that stat bonus, but none of the unique attributes apply such as the Weaponskills, Job Enhancements of Mythics, or super-crits of Relics.

That's the part that royally sucks, otherwise Vajra would be an amazing weapon for THF to off-hand.

[Greatguardian]

You don't get the stat bonuses.

[Malacite]

Weird, thought for sure in that update note it said the attack/accuracy bonuses would still apply.

I can't find the exact update though, looking through ZAM's update history page.

[StingRay104]

I think its fair considering that DWer's can get great bonuses from offhand while 2handers only get grips that aren't all that impressive. Hell I'd be willing to support your claims as they make a lot of sense but if SE doesn't give us 2handers some decent grips to help balance it then your just asking for the balance to be broken. So what I'm sayin is fix this and add magian grips, and dare I say it relic/mythic/empy comparable grips.

[Cream_Soda]

It'd still help h2h because things like ODD and relics triple dmg proc would finally start working on both hands instead of just one

[SNK]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.

Could you please stop with the back seat modding?

But back on track, I happen to agree that the Relic not getting the stat bonus's in the offhand is a little silly. Truthfully I'd rather have the Weapon Skill and the Stat Bonus's unlocked for all one handed weapons no matter what hand you're holding it in.

[Cream_Soda]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.
Mods are in the front seat
Kick it in the back seat?

Gotta make my mind up, which seat can I taaaaake?

[Concerned4FFxi]

indeeed what you say makes perfect sense

[Malacite]

It'd still help h2h because things like ODD and relics triple dmg proc would finally start working on both hands instead of just one

Didn't they patch Glanzfaust a while back to make the OAT proc on both fists?

So why is it Verethragna is only one... and the offhand at that?

[Cream_Soda]

Didn't they patch Glanzfaust a while back to make the OAT proc on both fists?

So why is it Verethragna is only one... and the offhand at that?
Not sure about Glanz, I konw they did wargfangs (Magian trial wep), but Spharai's triple dmg proc certainly only work on one first, so Vereth certainly isn't the only one.

[Atomic_Skull]

Actually I'm pretty sure you do in fact get that stat bonus, but none of the unique attributes apply such as the Weaponskills, Job Enhancements of Mythics, or super-crits of Relics.

You don't get the Attack+35 when you equip Mandau offhand. I know this because I have one.


It's very tricky cause you do have to take into consideration, even though a 1 hand weapon user can wield a relic mythic or empyrean at the same time doesn't mean they should, if that makes any sense. What I mean is 2 handed users don't have the option to do that so in essence there would be an imbalance to allow such a thing to be done with relic weapons.

Is it fair that 2H DD's get 3ATT/ACC for every 4 ponts of STR/DEX? If it fair that a DRK gets +48 Attack just for being a DRK, or that a WAR can essentially hack the WS damage calculation with Ukon and Mighty Strikes? (seriously, a super hasted WAR/SAM with all of their abilities active + Mighty Strikes firing off double and triple self light SCs is just plain HAX, there is no other word to describe it)

Some jobs can do things that others can't, it's just how the game works. Also 2H DD's are inherently stronger than 1H DD's and would remain so even in the face of Twastar/Mandau THFs and Kannagi/Kikoku NINs.

[Vyvian]

Not sure about Glanz, I konw they did wargfangs (Magian trial wep), but Spharai's triple dmg proc certainly only work on one first, so Vereth certainly isn't the only one.

Worse than that, it can only happen on the very first swing of the attack round..

[Cream_Soda]

Worse than that, it can only happen on the very first swing of the attack round..
Yea, I knew that, just wasn't 100% sure if it was the first or the second (as for some reason Vereth is the second swing, go figure).

No worries, I'm sure they'll do something nice w/ Spharai for 99. Keep on monkin'!

[Vyvian]

Yeah, its main hand for spharai, first attempt only. Although I wonder if you really know which hand got the double attack. My character always seems alternate swings regardless, I just know what happened based on how many total swings there were. The only exception I found to that was when you got extra hits on Faith Baghnakhs, those swung the same hand.

[Cream_Soda]

When i say main/offhand, I always just go off of the chat log, mainhand hits first, offhand hits second.

[Doombringer]

for real. 2handers don't get to complain about grips being underpowered when SE basically re-wrote the game to accommodate them.

not only do they get free bonus att and acc due to the enhanced conversion rate, they actually get a higher cap on pdif just by the merit of.. holding there weapon with both hands? so totally justified.......

[Malacite]

^ You ever see the kind of damage a Claymore can do?

The 2H update was 100% justified and badly needed.

[Rearden]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.

lol thanks jesus

[Atomic_Skull]

^ You ever see the kind of damage a Claymore can do?

The 2H update was 100% justified and badly needed.

You ever see the kind of damage an arbalest can do? (a man portable crossbow with a windlass drawn spring steel bow that was accurate to 400+ yards and could punch straight through steel plate armor) Or for that matter a gun?

Making ranged weapons stronger than melee would also be 100% justified and badly needed. And for that matter ranged weapons originally ignoring defense was also 100% justified.

[Bumbeen]

putting [ATTN] in your post isn't going to get you more attention than if you didn't put it there. So don't do it.

Lick your own asshole ^^

[Doombringer]

i don't read any thread that DOESN'T include [ATTN] in the title.

how else would i know which threads to pay [ATTN] to?

[Byrth]

If they let us get offhand stats and effects from relics/mythics, I'd really have to kick my Terpsichore hunting into full gear.

[Malacite]

You ever see the kind of damage an arbalest can do? (a man portable crossbow with a windlass drawn spring steel bow that was accurate to 400+ yards and could punch straight through steel plate armor) Or for that matter a gun?

Making ranged weapons stronger than melee would also be 100% justified and badly needed. And for that matter ranged weapons originally ignoring defense was also 100% justified.

Yes I have, and ranged weapons are stronger. Or were you not aware that they ignore roughly 50% of level correction penalties? (It used to be 0 which is why RNG did such stupid damage waaaay back in the day.) +Ranged Attack also has a much more profound impact on damage than +attack does for melee.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/PDIF

Actually didn't know that ranged pDIF was uncapped, that's beastly. That explains why Jishnu's Radiance can hit so damn high.

2H Weapons scale somewhere roughly between Ranged and 1H, which is just fine.

[Byrth]

Ranged pDIF isn't uncapped, it's capped to 3.

[Alhanelem]

Or people can continue to do as they please seeing as how you're not a moderator.
I'm not moderating, as no rule is being broken. it is, however, annoying as all hell and it's unnecessary.

[Cream_Soda]

I'm not moderating, as no rule is being broken. it is, however, annoying as all hell and it's unnecessary.
So is your backseat modding. No rule is being broken. It is, however, annoying as hell and it's unnecessary.

[Bumbeen]

I'm not moderating, as no rule is being broken. it is, however, annoying as all hell and it's unnecessary.

You posting in every thread that has [dev] or attn saying it isn't necessary is far more annoying really. They're just spam post count+1 posts. [dev] and [attn] isn't hurting anything, but you are wasting people's time having to scroll past your obligatory "don't put devs in the title" post in every single thread.

[SNK]

I'm not moderating, as no rule is being broken. it is, however, annoying as all hell and it's unnecessary.


So is your backseat modding. No rule is being broken. It is, however, annoying as hell and it's unnecessary.

Quoting this because you're probably blowing it off.

Just because you're a moderator somewhere else doesn't mean you need to inflate your head so much that you feel it's important to do it here. I've been moderating a game site for over 13 years and even then I don't feel the need to tell people what to do here because it's not my job and it certainly isn't yours either.