thief atma

[Rewdawg]

yes was wondering in everyone's opinion which atma would be best for thief?

[Arcon]

The following are the Atma I use.


DD/tank (with healer/support): RR/GH/Apoc
Solo (Nighttime/General): RR/GH/MC
Solo (Daytime, if needed): RR/GH/SD (slower but safer than the above)
Note: Solo includes farming, NMs and quests.
Skillup (defensive): Vic/SH/MC
WS points: MC/VV/SD
AoE/brew: Beyond/Gales/Ult
or: Ult/Gales/Hell (which most people probably don't have though)


Atma of the...
RR: Razed Ruins
SS: Sanguine Scythe
GH: Gnarled Horn
MC: Mounted Champion
VC: Vicissitude
SH: Stronghold
SD: Sea Daughter
VV: Voracious Violet
Beyond: Beyond
Gales: Gales
Ult: Ultimate
Hell: Hell's Guardian
Apoc: Apocalypse

[Babekeke]

The following are the Atma I use.


DD/tank (with healer/support): RR/GH/Apoc
Solo (Nighttime/General): RR/GH/MC
Solo (Daytime, if needed): RR/GH/SD (slower but safer than the above)
Note: Solo includes farming, NMs and quests.
Skillup (defensive): Vic/SH/MC
WS points: MC/VV/SD
AoE/brew: Beyond/Gales/Ult
or: Ult/Gales/Hell (which most people probably don't have though)


Atma of the...
RR: Razed Ruins
SS: Sanguine Scythe
GH: Gnarled Horn
MC: Mounted Champion
VC: Vicissitude
SH: Stronghold
SD: Sea Daughter
VV: Voracious Violet
Beyond: Beyond
Gales: Gales
Ult: Ultimate
Hell: Hell's Guardian
Apoc: Apocalypse

You list Sanguine Scythe, but you never use it? Is GH always better than SS?

[Arcon]

You list Sanguine Scythe, but you never use it? Is GH always better than SS?

I used to use it before GH for a bit because I thought Critical Hit Rate caps at 50%, just as Critical Hit Damage. After I found out that wasn't the case, I replaced it with GH.

Now being uncapped, it might be worth it again, but I would still lean towards GH, too lazy and drunk to do the math atm (also, I didn't log on in about a month, so not very motivated right now). I still used it on certain mobs that have high damaging moves whenever I was tanking on THF, because of the HP bonus. Alfard for example, for Serpentine Tail, or Iratham for Blizzaga IV. Apart from that, GH always seemed more consistent, but again, I didn't actually parse or calculate anything since the recent Critical Hit Damage upgrade, so I'm not sure. Also, it's nice to use as a third Atma if you don't have Apoc yet.

[CrAZYVIC]

A friendly analisis for you and the future new thiefs. I will compare RR/SS/GH VS RR/GH/AOA. I hope this help you

Fixed adding the 3% DA i was missing -_-. Critical hit rate and critical hit damage with a ratio 2.0 was used for this

THF/WAR


Triplus / Rapidus = 188 (2.0 in ratio)

I will skip some maths for this be more friendly for you.

Using this Tp set gear.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/217598

1200 hits per hour using that tp set.

Razed Ruins/Gnarled horn/AOA

With 34% TA and 21% DA = 2520

We will get 114 ws per hour with average 2000 ws = 228,000

2520 using this atmas will have 79% critical hits, 1990 critical hits = 546,215 dmg and 99.640 dmg by normal hits


RR/GH/AOA = 873,855

Razed Ruins/Gnarled horn/ Sanguine scythe.

1200 hits

With 19% TA and 21% DA = 2160

We will get 98 ws per hour with average 3000 ws = 294,000

2160 using this atmas will have 79% critical hits, 1706 critical hits = 564.481 dmg and 85,532 dmg by normal hits

RR/GH/SS = 944,013

Boths atmas combos are close so up to you

[Arcon]

Your "math" is confusing as hell. How do you get 18% DA with that set? Seems impossible. And even with those numbers it doesn't add up to 2448. And even with that you don't get to 111 WS. And you didn't consider the critical hit damage bonus for WS? Or if you did, I don't see how/where. I really don't know what you calculated.

Atma of the Apocalypse should come out on top over SS I think, but it's hard to calculate the critical damage bonus on WS.

[Nebo]

Kinematics did a nice comparison of the two after the crit damage cap increase

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?fjob=10&mid=1305042449124277283&page=1&howmany=50#msg1305130750266084527

And found that for thief, they are quite close in terms of damage output. (Apoc win in situations where landing regular SA/TA is not possible)

However RR/GH/SS also has a 20% HP boost, enmity boost, and a lower TP feed/Damage dealt ratio than RR/GH/Apoc.

So for me, when soloing/tanking etc I still use RR/GH/SS for this reason.

[Babekeke]

I was actually thinking RR/SS/AOA

[Arcon]

I was actually thinking RR/SS/AOA

From that testing it seems that those things are all about the same in efficiency. I'd just go with whatever is more useful at that moment. Normally I'd say RR/SS/Apoc, because of the Auto-RR and Quick Magic from Apoc and HP from SS. RR/GH/Apoc if you can benefit from Counter more than from the higher HP.

[Babekeke]

Well, I don't actually have SS yet. It's on my 'to do' list.

There are also some nice atmas out there for very situational times (usually if trying to solo or duo without a mage)
Impenetrable - if you're fighting NMs with breath attacks. 15 regen beats MC regen when you take much less damage from the breath.
Future Fabulous - if fighting magic-happy NMs. Would possibly replace AoA since it has a bit of haste/fast cast. Don't think it's much though.
Roaring Laughter - I've not tried this yet, but it's supposed to work wonders with counterstance. Not sure if you hit cap before adding GH counter too, but if it doesn't, that could be a great tanking combo^^ (You need to be sure you're @ acc cap though, which I imagine we all are if using RR atma and a few merits/acc from gear anyway). I'd be interested to know if anyone has tried this yet. If not I'll try to get hold of the atma this weekend to try myself and let you all know. (oh I need 4 more levels on mnk first too ><).
Cloak and Dagger/Einherjar - anything that can cause/cast death.
Smiting Blow - Better than beyond for brew/aoe spam?
Siren Shadow - Nice little atma for soloing, especially if the mob has a tendency to spam paralyze.

[CrAZYVIC]

LOL yeah i forget add the 3% DA from the ring lol. And yes everything was taking in consideration, critical hit damage and critical hit rate ^^ But both combos are very close, just choice what do you like ^^

[noodles355]

However RR/GH/SS also [...] has a lower TP feed/Damage dealt ratio than RR/GH/Apoc.Lower TP feed? No... They have the same AGI and Subtle Blow. Lower Damage output? How is that a positive thing?

[Nebo]

Lower TP feed? No... They have the same AGI and Subtle Blow. Lower Damage output? How is that a positive thing?

I would have thought it was obvious? The Apoc build has 15% more triple attack procs (thus more TP feed) whereas SS just gets it done through more damage per hit.

Also, we are just talking Kinematic's spread sheet. I have parsed them to be very close. But I also prefer the HP boost of SS, rather than relying on RR from Apoc....I'd just rather not die.

[Babekeke]

I also prefer the HP boost of SS, rather than relying on RR from Apoc....I'd just rather not die.

Bah, try being a taru for a day lol

[Karbuncle]

I've been using RR/GH/Apoc, Simply because an additional 15% Tripl attack means i Trp 1/3 hits, as opposed to 1/5 without. this helps with THF Set bonus procing too...

That and i rarely get to use SA or TA as im generally always the Main Tank.

RR/GH/SS does seem to hold some merit now that Critical hit damage cap is increased.

[Eeek]

Count me among the THFs who almost always infuse RR/GH/Apoc. I use Future Fabulous for fighting NMs that deal considerable amounts of magic damage as it's incredible when paired with a solid MDT set.

[Babekeke]

I've been using RR/GH/Apoc, Simply because an additional 15% Tripl attack means i Trp 1/3 hits, as opposed to 1/5 without. this helps with THF Set bonus procing too...

That and i rarely get to use SA or TA as im generally always the Main Tank.

RR/GH/SS does seem to hold some merit now that Critical hit damage cap is increased.

Please tell me you stick a Sneak Attack in if/when red is proc'd on NM though? Bugs me when I have to go a job other than thf and our thf doesn't bother to do this. (unless mob HP is getting low and yellow still hasn't been proc'd perhaps)

[Karbuncle]

Please tell me you stick a Sneak Attack in if/when red is proc'd on NM though? Bugs me when I have to go a job other than thf and our thf doesn't bother to do this. (unless mob HP is getting low and yellow still hasn't been proc'd perhaps)

Why wouldn't i Lol :P?

The second i see a red proc my ass goes behind the NM with someone (even if its a mage damnit!) and SA/TA > WS the thing and rape it.

Haven't really fought things lately we 'need' procs on, (been doing mostly Empyrean weapon NMs). So yah, once we hit red i always SA/TA, usually we line up a Skillchain if i happen to have a friend with me.

(I occasionally do Abyssea with a NIN and a DRK (my brother and my GF's brother))

[Babekeke]

Nice, I usually end up either in a pickup group, or if I go with friends I'm with a rdm and nin, so depending if we need red (war), yellow (blm/brd) or just plain TH (thf) depends on which job I get to go.

[s_white62]

what atma is AOA?

[Arcon]

what atma is AOA?

Atma of Alpha and Omega.

[Lokithor]

I usually equip Smiting Blow now, along with RR and GH. This allows Rudra's to hit at +100%TP effect. Combined with TP bonus Centovente in my off hand, I get the damage of 300% Rudra's at 100% TP.

[Chronoz]

Typically I use
RR/SS/SS = Razed ruin/Sanguine Scythe/Siren Shadow in almost all situations, solo or group great damage, great "tanking".

Only time I change out is when I'm fighting something that has retarded magical offense IE Dragua, Isgebind, Apedemak.
Then I'll swap out Sanguine scythe for (ff)future fabulous. Which gives awesome MDB and a little bit of haste. As a taru it's fun to watch elvaan nins drop on their faces while you still poke away at the nm.

[Karbuncle]

I don't much feel Siren Shadow is worth it. I mean, some people think "yay Evasion", But in Abyssea, on THF... You're pretty much capping Evasion with Cruor buffs and your badass traits... Especially on Exp mobs, and the majority of low tier NMs. Now, In the later zones, Some of them might be all pFFFFJTZZBLBLTTTT, but Gnarled Horn should be more than enough, and it gives better DD bonuses, and AGI+50 helps Subtle Blow.

I used Siren Shadow back when two atmas was the most we could use... Its not a bad Atma, just not ideal as a permanent third atma, much like gear... Atma will change on the situation.

P.S I'm not saying your choice is wrong, only debating its usefulness. this is a "What do i use" thread, so don't take it as a "UR DUMB" thing, I know you're just giving your insight!

[Babekeke]

As a general rule for doing empy weapons in abyssea now, I go thf/war to help with more procs, and use RR/VV/Apoc.

[Nebo]

What I use: RR/GH/SS or RR/GH/APOC. For great destruction of Glavoids!!!!!!!

Using evasion atmas at level 99 is a waste of an atma slot. But GH gives lots of AGI so its win/win.

I can't think of the last time I used anything but my TP set to "tank" in. Unless it was to swap out to some kind of -DT set for a powerful spell or ability. Certainly never needed evasion.

[Josiahkf]

NM's hit harder now then they used to thanks to the defense update. Soloing empousa on thf after it he was almost critting me for 600 dmg after triumphant roar lol -_-;

But I use RR GH SS for general tanking/duoing and
RR SD + (any third atma based on the NM) for soloing

And I agree with the above poster; use of a slot solely for evasion atma on thf has always been a waste