Would introducing an atma with increased skill gain rates be too dramatic?

[Raxiaz]

Just wondering.

[Dauntless]

I don't think it would be too far-fetched.

[Auredant]

A crutch for the weak perhaps...but not overpowered. So I agree that it is dramatic as skill gain has never been an issue outside of maybe parry/guard.

[Olor]

I hear leveling summoning skill is a pain also

[CrystalWeapon]

I'd personally rather training armor with negative status effects, but the additional effect of increased skill ups.

[Korpg]

Because a Prouesse Ring is so hard to get?

[Olor]

It isn't ideal but to get my axe up I just skilled up soloing FOV (in Zeruhn so I had a chance at the ring!) till it was high enough to hit VT/IT in [A] la thiene reasonably frequently and then joined a party and ate sushi. A couple parties in the lower Abyssea zones and my Axe skill is in the level 82 zone now, which isn't bad with me at 85. I would rather just stay at level 85 until I have a few more dribs and drabs together so that when I hit 90 I am not quite such a big gimp.

Is that weird? I just don't see any point in getting 90 until I am going to be able to perform the way someone at level 90 should.

[Anathiel]

I would really like an atma with increased skill up rates...would be fun to mix and match my atma for skill up parties.

[Seriha]

Because a Prouesse Ring is so hard to get?

30 hours in Zeruhn with level 5 discovery and no ring to show for it says yes.

[Korpg]

30 hours in Zeruhn with level 5 discovery and no ring to show for it says yes.

3 minutes while helping a level 10 friend get rank 1 basty quest and showing off in front of them, just to have the ring in the chest says no.

[Coldbrand]

3 minutes while helping a level 10 friend get rank 1 basty quest and showing off in front of them, just to have the ring in the chest says no.

hurhur I got extremely lucky so obviously that invalidates people who have spent more than entire day of real world time trying to get this item hurhurhur

[Korpg]

You missed my point.

I would understand if the ring came from a NM that takes 18+ people to kill and only pops once a week, while having a 2% drop rate, but that is not the case.

Besides, I doubt that person really spent that much time doing that. Probably went from 1-2 hours and giving up, then dramatizing it to say why they don't have it, when other people who want it already has theirs.

I doubt that its even less than 1% from brown chests. 5% maybe, but not 1%.

[Dauntless]

I don't have it.

Of course, I've never killed anything in Zeruhn mines... but still.

[Olor]

3 minutes while helping a level 10 friend get rank 1 basty quest and showing off in front of them, just to have the ring in the chest says no.

Nice luck. I opened a lot of brown chests and got a lot of ethers. /shrugs

[Seriha]

I wish I was over-exaggerating, but for the sake of preserving prowess buffs, I'd logged in Zeruhn 3 nights in a row, spending 4 days of play time hoping. I'd long since capped merits at one point with mobs roughly being 70 or so EXP a kill on top of GoV page bonuses and took my NPC from 63 to almost 71. However, 63-65 came before the 3 night stint and I had to take her out for the cap quest. As is, the zone can't really support more than 15 people aggressively killing and the amount of people I see leaving blue chests up doesn't help, either. As an idea of how many mobs I'd killed, I sold 38 stacks of Zeruhn Soot from my mule. How many did I chuck? Dunno. I'd give that 100k up for the ring, though.

[scaevola]

time isn't valuable

30 hours of straight playtime (not all at once, of course) is totally believable. As my sig suggests I zipped around Zeruhn at +37% movement speed with a provoke-esque claim and piercing damage to mulch bats in 20 seconds and it still took about 10 hours. Got my NPC from 70 to 79 in the process. I could very easily see one of the poor hapless souls from whom I mercilessly stole bat after bat from halfway across the universe taking 25-30 hours before giving up in exasperation; I was really only hanging on for the sake of NPC levels.

[Korpg]

if you don't think something so random as to require 30 hours of concentrated play time (which btw is totally believable for someone not blessed with my sig-worthy DNC overpoweredness) doesn't qualify as difficult even if the process doesn't require more than one person and does not, strictly speaking, carry a huge risk of death, your time is clearly not valuable enough for your opinions to carry weight on pretty much anything

Carry a huge risk of death? We are talking about killing EP mobs here, if THAT.

30 hours of concentrated play is what, a Trial of the Magian Elemental staff all the way to 90? If you really want something bad enough, you would work for it. Its not like you have to kill AV and PW at the same time here, its something that anybody with a goal can do within a week, a month if there is very very very limited gameplay time involved.

[scaevola]

Considering a long grind with a definitive end that logs permanent progress every single kill in any way the same as a long grind involving triggering RNG in hopes of a rare drop with no demarcation of progress along the way is what makes people lose thousands of dollars in Vegas.

[Korpg]

Could there perhaps be a difference between a long grind with a definitive end that logs permanent progress every single kill and a long grind involving triggering RNG in hopes of a rare drop with no demarcation of progress along the way?

Considering these the same thing is what makes people lose thousands of dollars in Vegas.

Wait, are we talking about the same thing?

[scaevola]

I'm saying grinding for Prouesse Ring and grinding for a Magian trial other than a WoE weapon are in no way similar.

Well, not only that, but considering these two distinct types of things to be at all the same is a common error that has brought a great deal of suffering on likely untold millions of people throughout history. So I guess I'm talking about that, too.

EDIT: To be fair though, this is probably an unnecessary tangent because I can say as an owner of a Prouesse Ring that it is mega garbage and any imperceptable increase in skill-up rate provided would be totally eclipsed by the skillups I'd have gotten if I'd spent the time farming for it skilling up instead. One would hope a skillup atma would provide larger benefits than the Ring.

[Korpg]

Because its faster to get a Prouesse Ring than a fully finished TotM weapon? Generally that is.

[scaevola]

Subtlety and analogy are totally lost on you, aren't they?

[Korpg]

Subtlety and analogy are totally lost on you, aren't they?

Guess if you think so.

[scaevola]

I could type up a long explanation of the gambler's fallacy, how it ruins lives, and how you're playing it out by even saying "getting X RNG drop takes Y amount of time" rather than "getting X RNG drop takes the amount of time it happens to end up taking", but I know you won't read it.

Instead, I'll just say that ToM and RNG are not even remotely comparable because ToM is 1+1+1+1+1=5 and RNG is 0+0+0+0+a totally unpredictable and indeterminate number of zeroes+5=5, and if you can't figure out the difference you are welcome at my weekly poker game.

[Korpg]

I could type up a long explanation of the gambler's fallacy, how it ruins lives, and how you're playing it out by even saying "getting X RNG drop takes Y amount of time" rather than "getting X RNG drop takes the amount of time it happens to end up taking", but I know you won't read it.

Instead, I'll just say that ToM and RNG are not even remotely comparable because ToM is 1+1+1+1+1=5 and RNG is 0+0+0+0+a totally unpredictable and indeterminate number of zeroes+5=5, and if you can't figure out the difference you are welcome at my weekly poker game.

I know what gambler's fallacy is, but the way you explained it is completely confusing.

Also, if RNG means Ring for you, why don't you actually type R-I-N-G instead of knocking off the "i". That just makes you look lazy. However, if you are talking about Ranger, then we are both having different conversations.

You are right though, TotM staffs have a goal, and a long one, and one that is traceable. Ring, however, doesn't. Every brown chest has a 1/20 shot in being the ring. However, since the rate of brown chests are common, and we are talking about a 1/20 chance overall, I still stand by what I said that it is faster to get a ring than to complete a TotM staff from start to finish. It takes somebody who would play this game from start-finish, only pausing for RR, food, and sleep, probably 3 days to finish a staff. Some staffs probably longer, depending on luck of weather. You could get the ring in an hour, in 5 hours, in 10 hours if your luck is really bad. Although I don't have any stats to back this up, I think that, by my own observations, the average time it would take for a person to get a ring would be about 10 hours, with a standard deviation of 3 hours. 30 hours is just one extreme example, along with 3 minutes being on the other extreme. But the problem is, you only HEAR about the extremes. Not that many people (not enough to make an actual sample of the population to make a better determination to see how long it really would take) would say how long it actually took them, or be accurate either.

[scaevola]

RNG means Random Number Generation.


Every brown chest has a 1/20 shot in being the ring. However, since the rate of brown chests are common, and we are talking about a 1/20 chance overall, I still stand by what I said that it is faster to get a ring than to complete a TotM staff from start to finish.

Hey, if this slot machine has a 5% chance to give me a 20x payout, the worst that can happen is I break even!

(also, I reiterate for the sake of the prouesse-seeking peanut gallery that the ring is garbage while magian staves are clearly not, but the relative value of the reward isn't necessarily what we're talking about here)

[Korpg]

RNG means Random Number Generation.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Habiki]

30 hours in Zeruhn with level 5 discovery and no ring to show for it says yes.

30 hours you could have spent capping your skills.

[Habiki]

I hear leveling summoning skill is a pain also

Only if you burnt it from lvl 30-90 in abyssea.

Do we really need more pointless threads, truly people need to stop being lazy and skill up or level the normal way, that way they understand the need for gear swaps as well since atmas are already a huge crutch and allow people to wear full pearl teal or aurore and do good damage I can't wait till all gimps have to do content outside abyssea to see more worthless threads, I'm glad they made the game more friendly for the casual player but it's really dumbed down the player base.

[Olor]

Only if you burnt it from lvl 30-90 in abyssea.

BLAH BLAH BLAH ELITIST GARBAGE. NEW PLAYERS SUCK BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T SPENT 7 YEARS GETTING GEARS. BLAH BLAH BLAH ETC ETC

I heard that from a friend who has never taken their summoner into Abyssea as far as I know. They said they counted once how many actions it took to get a skill up - it was like summoning something 50 times to get 0.1.

I know even for my mage jobs where I am casting without huge timers between when I can do an action (isn't it like 45 seconds) my skills still don't keep up with leveling, even SOLO leveling. So it seems believable that raising summoning skill is a pain.

Honestly, lose the rage. No one I know enjoys skilling up. It is quite possibly the most boring thing possible. So what if people would prefer to spend their time in game doing fun stuff versus auto-attacking crabs.

[Raxiaz]

Yes please, enough about the useless ring. I made this suggestion because I would love to skill up in abyssea relatively quickly, all the while completing dominion ops for exp/merits/something to do. Skilling up is boring enough as it is. I still wish we could skill up in campaign. As it stands, campaign has nothing worth working towards for me personally.

[Olor]

It would be awesome if they made campaign the go-to for skill ups (from 60-80) and leveling from 60-75. AWESOME. As it is now, no one really does it, which sucks.

[Kincard]

30 hours you could have spent capping your skills.

Pretty much this- a lot of people want the Prouesse Ring because they thought it would save them some time on skilling up, which has been a complaint for a while now. Korpg doesn't seem to understand this...the Prouesse Ring isn't one of the types of items players should have to "work" for because it's really not powerful or game-breaking in any sense.

The only time I bother trying to get it is when I level my NPC. If I wasn't doing that I wouldn't even bother, because once again, the purpose of the ring is completely lost through the massive amount of effort needed to obtain it.

[Lutschfactor]

wow go skill up in a real place not abyssea. and anyone who has a smn knows its faster to cap it using ur smn abalities not just sitting there using the smn call and thats it. go do something productive and stop wasting out time in these pointless threads. go skill up and stop bitching about how u cant skill up coz u have lvl 5 skills and ur in abyssea trying to skill up.

[Seriha]

Only reason I kept trying was because I'd need to skill from 91-99 too. Most of my 90 jobs are capped, the current exception being marksmanship, throwing, and polearm, and obviously better skill up rates benefit the consumable skills since it means less time and money shooting arrows/bolts.

[Vold]

I know what gambler's fallacy is, but the way you explained it is completely confusing.

Also, if RNG means Ring for you, why don't you actually type R-I-N-G instead of knocking off the "i". That just makes you look lazy. However, if you are talking about Ranger, then we are both having different conversations.

You are right though, TotM staffs have a goal, and a long one, and one that is traceable. Ring, however, doesn't. Every brown chest has a 1/20 shot in being the ring. However, since the rate of brown chests are common, and we are talking about a 1/20 chance overall, I still stand by what I said that it is faster to get a ring than to complete a TotM staff from start to finish. It takes somebody who would play this game from start-finish, only pausing for RR, food, and sleep, probably 3 days to finish a staff. Some staffs probably longer, depending on luck of weather. You could get the ring in an hour, in 5 hours, in 10 hours if your luck is really bad. Although I don't have any stats to back this up, I think that, by my own observations, the average time it would take for a person to get a ring would be about 10 hours, with a standard deviation of 3 hours. 30 hours is just one extreme example, along with 3 minutes being on the other extreme. But the problem is, you only HEAR about the extremes. Not that many people (not enough to make an actual sample of the population to make a better determination to see how long it really would take) would say how long it actually took them, or be accurate either.

Yet what you are saying is completely 100% irrelevant to the topic at hand. The ring has no baring whatsoever on whether or not to give us an atma to do the same thing. If it did, the ring wouldn't exist simply because of kupowers, or GoV itself, or the newbie hat. Just because something is in the game already does not mean something else that does the same thing can't be added.

We're happy for you and your 3 minute ring, but stop being a drama queen. It doesn't mean it's that easy for everyone. Technically speaking a person could live in there for the next ten years and never get the ring because the system never hit that "jackpot" number to drop it. It's extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

I'll also take this time to say that apparently this thread is not pointless in the sense that the mines is constantly overrun with people chasing the ring, but it is pointless in the sense than it is very unlikely for SE to add anything more to Abyssea aside from adjustments. New Dynamis and voidwatch should make that truth very apparent.

[Vold]

wow go skill up in a real place not abyssea. and anyone who has a smn knows its faster to cap it using ur smn abalities not just sitting there using the smn call and thats it. go do something productive and stop wasting out time in these pointless threads. go skill up and stop bitching about how u cant skill up coz u have lvl 5 skills and ur in abyssea trying to skill up.Actually Abyssea is the best place to skill up due to DA and TA atmas. Skilling up there myself has proven to blow away anywhere else and I've gone so far as to abuse kupowers + GoV while it was in effect.

I suppose magic skill ups would be better suited with kupower or GoV in place, though.

[Lutschfactor]

ya it is a good place to skill up. if u havent lvled in abyssea from 30-90. of course anyone who is capped knows really u gotta do it on NMs really to get anywhere anymore on skill ups. i capped parrying on NM's and on onions in abyssea altep. there is no need for an atma that lets u skill up.

[Karbuncle]

A crutch for the weak perhaps...but not overpowered. So I agree that it is dramatic as skill gain has never been an issue outside of maybe parry/guard.

For most things its easy, I agree, just time consuming, but at the same time... Have you tried skilling up an automaton lately?

I spent about 6 Hours in Abyssea farming Dark rings and my automaton only got about 2 Melee Skill levels, and he was punching the entire time.

hes about 100 under cap atm. given that time on average and skill rate, thats 300 hours of non-stop meleeing to cap my automaton. Thats also not including Ranger, and Mage frame, Who actually cast/ranged slower than a Valoredge Melee, so it'd likely take much more time.

While for most it might be "for the weak", but for a puppet master it seems like something that would help me tremendously -.-;

(Yah this is like, 3 pages late or something but oh well)


----

On the prousse ring topic, Pretty sure that doesnt effect automatons as well. >___> I mean, Thanks to GoV bonuses, i took club from 250 to Capped on PLD in about a total of ~12 combined hours, (out of the 40+ I spent in Horutoto trying to get Fishers Torque, which FYI is till dont have).

[Korpg]

I heard that from a friend who has never taken their summoner into Abyssea as far as I know. They said they counted once how many actions it took to get a skill up - it was like summoning something 50 times to get 0.1.

I know even for my mage jobs where I am casting without huge timers between when I can do an action (isn't it like 45 seconds) my skills still don't keep up with leveling, even SOLO leveling. So it seems believable that raising summoning skill is a pain.

Honestly, lose the rage. No one I know enjoys skilling up. It is quite possibly the most boring thing possible. So what if people would prefer to spend their time in game doing fun stuff versus auto-attacking crabs.

I solo'd SMN all the way to 75 way before Abyssea was even thought of. Which means that I leveled it all the way to 75 before the BPs gave you skillups. And I got it to cap skill before that too.

Yeah, it sucks, but you know what? You got it easy now. Just go to Abyssea, suck at Rages, have weak Wards, but continue to use them. Nobody should skillup SMN magic JUST by Summon/Release method anymore.

Also, you now know somebody who enjoyed skilling up. I skilled up all the possible weapons a WAR can use, JUST for Blue Procs, including going way beyond the WSNM stages so I would have more accuracy to proc blue faster.

[Korpg]

Korpg doesn't seem to understand this...the Prouesse Ring isn't one of the types of items players should have to "work" for because it's really not powerful or game-breaking in any sense.


I said if you want it enough, you should work for it.

You don't think it is worth the effort, so you don't work for it.

Maybe you are the one who isn't able to understand, so I break it into easier words for you. >.>

[Korpg]

Yet what you are saying is completely 100% irrelevant to the topic at hand. The ring has no baring whatsoever on whether or not to give us an atma to do the same thing. If it did, the ring wouldn't exist simply because of kupowers, or GoV itself, or the newbie hat. Just because something is in the game already does not mean something else that does the same thing can't be added.

We're happy for you and your 3 minute ring, but stop being a drama queen. It doesn't mean it's that easy for everyone. Technically speaking a person could live in there for the next ten years and never get the ring because the system never hit that "jackpot" number to drop it. It's extremely unlikely, but not impossible.

I'll also take this time to say that apparently this thread is not pointless in the sense that the mines is constantly overrun with people chasing the ring, but it is pointless in the sense than it is very unlikely for SE to add anything more to Abyssea aside from adjustments. New Dynamis and voidwatch should make that truth very apparent.

I was responding to the person who accused me of not knowing what Gambler's Fallacy is. I know it was offtopic, but I also brought into light standard deviation and normal distribution, which states that on average, things happen in X amount of tries, and most everything falls into X number of tries (for a full lesson in this, look up Normal Distribution and Statistics). Stating that something takes 30 hours to do is stating one extreme, while my stating it only took me 3 minutes was the opposite extreme.

Also, I don't have the ring. I gave it to my noob friend I was helping.

[Kincard]

I said if you want it enough, you should work for it.

You don't think it is worth the effort, so you don't work for it.

Maybe you are the one who isn't able to understand, so I break it into easier words for you. >.>

Way to miss the point. The entire complaint about the Prouesse Ring centers around its use being negated by the effort used to obtain it, thus making "work" part of the equation to obtain it completely asinine.

With a lot of other stuff in the game, there is a use for it even if the cost/reward is out of whack (example: Relics/Mythics are not really worth the effort involved to get them, but have an aesthetic appeal as well as usually being pretty good weapons anyway). Hell, the Prouesse Ring doesn't even have a fluff value to it that some stuff like furniture or mannequins give. Its only function, to make skilling up more efficient, is negated by the pains needed to get it.

Quit changing around your argument every time someone disagrees with you, it just makes you look petty.

[Korpg]

Way to miss the point. The entire complaint about the Prouesse Ring centers around its use being negated by the effort used to obtain it.

With a lot of other stuff in the game, there is a use for it even if the cost/reward is out of whack (example: Relics/Mythics are not really worth the effort involved to get them, but have an aesthetic appeal as well as usually being pretty good weapons anyway). Hell, the Prouesse Ring doesn't even have a fluff value to it that some stuff like furniture or mannequins give. Its only function, to make skilling up more efficient, is negated by the pains needed to get it.

Quit changing around your argument every time someone disagrees with you, it just makes you look petty.

Looks like we both missed our points.

Lets just admit that we both are obtuse and get on with our lives, ok?

*admits*

[Kincard]

Works for me.

Though, now that I'm thinking of how effective the Prouesse Ring is, I'd think a skillup atma would actually be less effective than putting on another DA or TA atma, funny enough.

[Korpg]

Works for me.

Though, now that I'm thinking of how effective the Prouesse Ring is, I'd think a skillup atma would actually be less effective than putting on another DA or TA atma, funny enough.

You know, I agree with you.

I guess I never did state why I don't think this would be a good idea. Guess what you said makes the most sense.

[Dfoley]

Not really.

If a skill up atma:
1) Gave skill ups on 0 dmg hits and misses (and x10 skill up for guard and parry)
2) prevented exp gain
3) prevented time extensions/aquireing lights

I think it would be wroth it. Then stack it with DA/TA/ACC etc.

Just my 2 gil

[Korpg]

Not really.

If a skill up atma:
1) Gave skill ups on 0 dmg hits and misses (and x10 skill up for guard and parry)
2) prevented exp gain
3) prevented time extensions/aquireing lights

I think it would be wroth it. Then stack it with DA/TA/ACC etc.

Just my 2 gil

You know nobody would ever sign on that.

[Teraniku]

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.

[Karbuncle]

Automaton Skill up rate definitely needs a small improvement :\, I dont think mine will ever cap his skills with how disheartening it is to go out on a 6-hour+ skill up session and walk away with maybe 1.7~3.0 Skill ups. on EM~T+ Mobs.

no fun at all =.=a

[xbobx]

you could automatically cap skill soon as you level up and it woudl have no impact on the game besides allowing you not to have to waste your time doing something useless for hours upon hours.

Problem is the japanese seem to thinking time sinks = content = difficulty. They are so wrong and if they every want their new mmos to ever reach huge audiences they seriously need to get over that concept.

[Lutschfactor]

wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fine

[Dfoley]

wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fine


Seriouslly, that. had. to. have. a. few. too. many. periods...

I see nothing wrong with making skill ups 10-20x faster. You cap them once and they are done, and it only takes about 2 hrs to go from 0 to 300 with the bulk of time being in changing zones. Not to mention you can do it on about 8 different weapons at a time. There is no 'skill' involved in skilling up, it is purely a time sink to slow down fast levelers.

Which, incase you cant tell from abyssea, FFXI has shifted from the old slow grind to the new faster paced leveling system to more closely match the more popular games in the mmo market.

So it would only fit that skilling up matched the new leveling pace. Personally I have been a pup and mnk as long as I have played and still havent capped guard or parry, and it took about 2-3 days of straight skilling up to go from 300 to 365 automaton ranged attack.

Did I learn anything about my pet, become a better player, become elite? No... I watched tv and hit deploy every 30 seconds.

[Coldbrand]

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.
Skilling up =/= difficulty. Mindless grind =/= difficulty. Have you ever actually played a video game that requires skill? Your mind will be blown when you see genuine difficulty (as opposed to artificial difficulty) in a video game some day.

[Korpg]

Talk to rog, he was able to go from level 0 to cap with emp +2 armors in a day on all skills on WAR.

He knows how to skill, maybe he would give pointers out.

[xbobx]

"wow u want the game handed to u dont u xbobx. cap skill as soon as u lvl. u have nothing to do. i bet ur even an abyssea lvler on all ur jobs and have no idea how to play anything unless ur in abyssea. seriously. they r a business. the longer the make us wait for things the more money they make. after 9 years. i think they r doing just fin"

Lol you are so wrong on so many levels. I soloed half my jobs, grinding it out, not in abyessa. I have been playing since launch and have grinding almost everything I got, mostly by myself or in small groups.
I just can't believe how stupid you are, first, spell things out, stop using short form. And are you that god damn stupid that you think the idea to keep people paying is to force them to grind and bore the hell out of them? Really? are you really that stupid?

and fyi, I didn't say I wanted them capped right away, I was responding to the question, which was increasing skill rate would have 0 affect on game balance by using my comment that even if they straight up capped it wouldnt affect game balance.
You get people paying by providing content, real content, not grinds. This game could have had easily 10 times the amount of subs if they stopped with the useless grinding.
You ever level pup? You want to see the new definition of grinding trying to level h2h, pet magic, melee and ranged?

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[scaevola]

How about this ... no.

Seriously people, How easy do you want this game to be?
Weapons are ridiculously easy to cap if you actually use them on a consistent basis (or actually play the job ).
Magic skills and and Automaton skills are much harder to cap. I might be able to get behind this if it just applied to magic skills or "Pet" Skills.


you have a child's perspective on challenge and accomplishment

[Habiki]

I agree with this and can see where luts is coming. Theres way to many fail people nowadays, truly they all need to suck less the reason they probably wan't an atma for skilling up is everything else is handed to them so why not skill ups in their opinion. All the people that post in this asking for the atma need to go jump off a bridge cause their worthless.

[Melodicya]

Hello!

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[Malacite]

A crutch for the weak perhaps...but not overpowered. So I agree that it is dramatic as skill gain has never been an issue outside of maybe parry/guard.

Weak nothing, a lot of the time (at least in my own experience) the game is very stingy with skill ups. I for one, am sick of spamming abilities non-stop versus IT+ enemies (usually dolls in Altepa) for hours just to gain a few skill levels as was the case just yesterday on my BLU 90. I gained maybe 6 skill levels of blue magic in around 2 hours of partying - yeah that's real productive.

It'd be nice to have an atma for this, particularly for the more arduous skills to level such as Guard & Parrying.

[Coldbrand]

They dev team needs to admit parrying is broken let alone adding skill ups for it.

[Olor]

Yeah, it sucks, but you know what? You got it easy now. Just go to Abyssea, suck at Rages, have weak Wards, but continue to use them. Nobody should skillup SMN magic JUST by Summon/Release method anymore.


A) I don't play SMN, so I won't be skilling summoning magic.

B) I was just relaying what I'd heard from a friend of mine who has been soloing/duoing/doing small parties on SMN and has watched his summoning skills fail to keep up and found it hard to get skill ups.

C) I am really tired of hearing "oh you gots it soooo eazy now, why you QQ" all the time. I don't care if it was more annoying and time consuming when you did X, Y or Z. I really don't. Annoying time sinks don't make this game better. They don't make players better. They don't make the game more attractive to new players.

[Olor]

Skilling up =/= difficulty. Mindless grind =/= difficulty.

Thank you. All skilling up does is make me feel like not playing the game. If it is possible to PARTY as a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER and go from 75-85 in a couple hours it shouldn't take days of boredom to go from 75-85 combat skills. That is asinine.

[Korpg]

You know, I don't really notice anything wrong with the skillups system, except Parrying/Guard/Shield portions. I mean, after getting a job from 85 capped skills to 90 capped skills (on WAR offweapons, like Great Sword, Hand-to-Hand, and Dagger) I don't see it taking longer than 4 hours on DC mobs outside of Taz Outpost. Each.

Could be me though. Maybe if you are taking level 30 skills to level 90 on IT++ mobs in Abyssea, it might take a while...

[Korpg]

A) I don't play SMN, so I won't be skilling summoning magic.

B) I was just relaying what I'd heard from a friend of mine who has been soloing/duoing/doing small parties on SMN and has watched his summoning skills fail to keep up and found it hard to get skill ups.

C) I am really tired of hearing "oh you gots it soooo eazy now, why you QQ" all the time. I don't care if it was more annoying and time consuming when you did X, Y or Z. I really don't. Annoying time sinks don't make this game better. They don't make players better. They don't make the game more attractive to new players.

A) Tell your friend that.

B) Again, tell your friend that.

C) Think it was easy for us, who had to do it without Martial Arts Kupopowers or any other help, like this new ring? Maybe some new players won't like it, but should they really be expected to be handed a gold metal just for breathing?

"Here Johnny, you survived today, here is a gold star!"

[Olor]

You know, I don't really notice anything wrong with the skillups system, except Parrying/Guard/Shield portions. I mean, after getting a job from 85 capped skills to 90 capped skills (on WAR offweapons, like Great Sword, Hand-to-Hand, and Dagger) I don't see it taking longer than 4 hours on DC mobs outside of Taz Outpost. Each.

Could be me though. Maybe if you are taking level 30 skills to level 90 on IT++ mobs in Abyssea, it might take a while...

Well War has that nifty skill or whatnot, doesn't it - that makes skilling up easy? I hear people all the time talking about pulling a bunch of mandies and retaliating to skill ups with double/triple attack atma and multihit weapon skills...

That's well and dandy, but I am not a war, and I don't have all the good atma yet... and don't feel like collecting all of them as a useless gimp (this is my first job past 75) so I skilled up my roughly level 70ish skills to 80ish skills soloing GoV pages over the course of two days of my playtime, and it was boring as hell.

Skill ups add nothing of value to the game. You can try to peg me as a leech or w/e but I don't really care. It seems like your only reason for being against this is the banal "I had it harder so why shouldn't it still remain a pointless time sink that drives away subscribers and punishes people for using the leveling systems inside the game?"

Once you start leveling in Abyssea - not leeching - leveling - your weapon/magic skills rapidly fall behind, leaving the playerbase to either be gimp or spend their (in my case anyway) limited playtime doing incredibly boring things that don't teach anyone about how to play their job or anything else.

Long, pointless time sinks will not hold subscribers. They won't - especially now that the game is old and dusty, not new and shiny. One way or another, skill ups need to be re-tuned.

[Korpg]

Well War has that nifty skill or whatnot, doesn't it - that makes skilling up easy? I hear people all the time talking about pulling a bunch of mandies and retaliating to skill ups with double/triple attack atma and multihit weapon skills...

That's well and dandy, but I am not a war, and I don't have all the good atma yet... and don't feel like collecting all of them as a useless gimp (this is my first job past 75) so I skilled up my roughly level 70ish skills to 80ish skills soloing GoV pages over the course of two days of my playtime, and it was boring as hell.

Skill ups add nothing of value to the game. You can try to peg me as a leech or w/e but I don't really care. It seems like your only reason for being against this is the banal "I had it harder so why shouldn't it still remain a pointless time sink that drives away subscribers and punishes people for using the leveling systems inside the game?"

Once you start leveling in Abyssea - not leeching - leveling - your weapon/magic skills rapidly fall behind, leaving the playerbase to either be gimp or spend their (in my case anyway) limited playtime doing incredibly boring things that don't teach anyone about how to play their job or anything else.

I didn't skillup in Abyssea. I skilled up outside, by myself, and I didn't think it was that bad tbh.

Besides, nothing wrong with exp with level 75 skills. As long as you don't exp with level 60 or below skills, there isn't really all that much bad about it, thats why you eat food (sushi mainly) to take up the slack of lower skills. Just join an exp party!


Long, pointless time sinks will not hold subscribers. They won't - especially now that the game is old and dusty, not new and shiny. One way or another, skill ups need to be re-tuned.

Sorry, had to bring this out by itself:

This game IS a massive timesink. Look at TotM. Look at Emp armors. Look at relics armors. Look at most anything in this game! It is nothing BUT massive timesinks.

[Malacite]

Thank you. All skilling up does is make me feel like not playing the game. If it is possible to PARTY as a CONTRIBUTING MEMBER and go from 75-85 in a couple hours it shouldn't take days of boredom to go from 75-85 combat skills. That is asinine.

It's one of the few redeeming aspects of FFXIV (along with learning spells automatically as you rank up) - No skill levels, just straight up increases per rank. It's really too late to change that in XI, but that doesn't mean they can't make meaningful adjustments to ease the process.

Skilling up is a mind-numbing chore.