[dev 1015] Adding Visual Identifiers for a Pyxis: "Pyxis Labels" and More

[kingfury]

Hey Dev's /wave
1st, Thanks for the list of 12 recently infused Atmas! Works out nicely. ^^ Destroying chest is a nice touch as well! Could we please have the "/destroypyxis <t>" command to make macros with in light of this new feature as well? o.o

This Issue:
As Fell Cleaving hoards of enemies repeatedly for hours on end as a WAR has become a very common part of my Abyssean career (and other jobs too for that matter), so too has become the cumbersome task of trying to quickly and efficiently check, communicate the contents to party members, and open the dozens of pyxis that result from such an activity. While I find the Fell Cleaving part still very satisfying and rewarding to this day ^^ the latter part continues to be cumbersome and at times annoying for multiple reasons.

• Slow menu activation upon checking a pyxis
• Layout of the pyxis themselves occasionally based on possible bunching of enemies
• Difficulty to "quickly" identify and communicate to party members exactly which pyxis to open (example: amongst dozens of blue, and red pyxis that all look the same)
• Short despawn timers that ignore the time it takes to check the pyxis themselves

In a scenario where 15+ enemies all drop chests that are potentially desirable to the group, depending on how those chest are laid out, everyone checking the chest has only 180 seconds to try and quickly determine and communicate which pyxis are worth opening and available to all party members. While I'm not saying this is at all impossible to accomplish, because players have become very efficient at the process after so much practice, the process could be vastly improved with some intuitive additions.

Possible Solutions:
Additions that could help streamline the process:

• Adding a way to quickly "Visually communicate" the contents of a checked pyxis to other party members. Possible "Pyxis Labels", or "Pyxis Auras" could allow a player to check a pyxis and instantly Visually display the contents to effectively communicate to all party members in range the value of that pyxis. This could be accomplished by either adding an additional option to the pyxis menu called "Display Pyxis Label" or just perhaps making it an automatic response to the player "Peering through the cracks" of a Pyxis.
»Pyxis Labels example 1 (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/PyxisLabels-1-Web.jpg)
»Pyxis Labels example 2 (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/PyxisLabels-2-Web.jpg)
»Pyxis Labels example 3 (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/PyxisLabels-4-Web.jpg)
----
**EDIT**
Maybe allowing 2hr boxes to be keyed open without releasing the effect until someone selected the contents similar to Gold key item boxes. This would work the very same way as the suggested pyxis labels in terms of communicating which box was the 2hr box. Since this is the only box that is player dependent in terms of who keys open the chest receives the reward all that would be needed is an added selection menu. No extra graphics needed. ^^
------
• Forcing uniform spawn layouts for pyxis's no matter how the vanquished monsters were piled together at the time of their killing.
»Forced uniform Pyxis Layout example 1 (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/PyxisLabels-3-Web.jpg)

Thanks for listening Devs /salute

[Hanabira]

youre pretty much asking them to nerf fell cleaves

[Juilan]

I haven't cleaved since the patch to the chests, should see how it works, but ya there is a large bit of lag when trying to chest the chest... and then having to retarget it after you check it... if you could keep the target (since i do it with mules) id find the activity much easier

[Khiinroye]

So instead of having the person on chest duty key or destroy the chest, you want to have him call someone else to key or destroy the chest.

For blue chests, you key or destroy XP, Cruor, temps, and time extensions. No communicating on those.
ISL, you leave the blue chest and let your party know that its there; I'm sure they can see where you are and realize that the blue chest that you left is the right chest.

Red chests are key or destroy, no communicating.

For gold chests, you add items to the pool, call-out-and-open or destroy temps, and call out and open key items. The giant, open, gold chest is usually enough of a visual hint as to which chest it is.

Anyone who is checking chests should have keys, and if you're just opening ISL, you should also have keys for that.

The chest system in Abyssea is fine as it is.

[Leonlionheart]

Not an entirely horrible idea, but pretty unnecessary when there are so many other issues for the dev team to deal with.

[Alhanelem]

Not a bad idea but not really essential either. I don't want a /dstroychest command because it would make it even easier to just kill chests without really looking at them.

[Kimble]

Chest system is fine. Your idea seems like it would take way more resources then is necessary for an idea that isnt really needed.

[kingfury]

So instead of having the person on chest duty key or destroy the chest, you want to have him call someone else to key or destroy the chest.
For blue chests, you key or destroy XP, Cruor, temps, and time extensions. No communicating on those.
ISL, you leave the blue chest and let your party know that its there; I'm sure they can see where you are and realize that the blue chest that you left is the right chest.
Red chests are key or destroy, no communicating.
For gold chests, you add items to the pool, call-out-and-open or destroy temps, and call out and open key items. The giant, open, gold chest is usually enough of a visual hint as to which chest it is.
Anyone who is checking chests should have keys, and if you're just opening ISL, you should also have keys for that.
The chest system in Abyssea is fine as it is.
-------------------
^^ To make sure to clarify the grounds of my Pyxis Label suggestion, streamlining the check, communicate, and open process "party wide" is the goal with the visual indicators.

Depending on how many chest have dropped after a major pull, there are times when one key person is simply not enough to do this entire 3 step process effectively with enough time to spare for opening. No matter how fast your targeting finger is, there is in fact a slight lag from checking a pyxis that can't be helped and thus slows the process down even more so in the event of lots of chests to check.

The pyxis labels would allow for anyone in the party to help quickly identify the contents of the dozens of blue and red pyxis whether they have keys or not. If that player that's on key duty (or anyone in the party with keys) could look at a handful of chest and determine which ones to key open with just a glance, then you would be correct in your saying, "No verbal communication needed". Without it, you still have to say things like,
"ISL by me. No, to the far right. Well I know there's 5 blue chest to the far right ><. (all the while time is being lost) Here, right where I'm standing."
In this same example, the person on key duty could simply say
"ISL.", and the now activated visual pyxis label would do the rest.

Not an entirely horrible idea, but pretty unnecessary when there are so many other issues for the dev team to deal with.
----------
^^ Well neither was the adjustment to the Atma infusing menu (New list of 12 recently infused Atma), but here we are! lol But yeah, it's not game breaking at all, just a suggestion for streamlining the process. ^^
Thanks for the feedback /

Not a bad idea but not really essential either. I don't want a /dstroychest command because it would make it even easier to just kill chests without really looking at them.
-----------
Thanks, and /agreed, we would continue to pop chest without any improvements, but just wanted to suggest a quicker method to something we all have to deal with at some point or another inside Abyssea.

That's kinda the whole idea I'm afraid in regards to the /destroypyxis command. ^^; Try to picture using the command coupled with the functionality of the pyxis labels for a sec. Instead of having to recheck which pyxis to destroy, other members of your party may have already activated the pyxis label while checking through the group chests but didn't destroy the chest yet, and with a simple glance you could quickly determine which chests are worthy of being destroyed. ^^
Though, even without the pyxis labels, lets say your party has amassed 300+ minutes inside abyssea and have capped all the lights you wish to for that run. At that point, any and all red chests that drop is fair game to quickly destroy with extreme prejudice ^^ lol so having a quick /destroypyxis command macro'd would come in quite handy. At that point it would become a game of "Who has the fastest macro finger" to snatch the cruor reward. lol

Chest system is fine. Your idea seems like it would take way more resources then is necessary for an idea that isnt really needed.
-----------------
Well, the chest system works as is, but it couldn't hurt to improve the speed of the process when it's being pushed to it's extreme, such as massive amounts of chests that potentially all need to be checked and opened within a window of 3 minutes. Again, not going to cause folks to quit the game or anything, but neither was the Atma infusing menu, but that got improved for very similar reasons. ^^ Improving the game experience is apart of the Devs job, so it's never a waste of time when they succeed in correcting a system that is not performing at it's best potential.

Technically speaking, since the data the pyxis labels would be displaying is already built into the system (the pyxis light color, rank/light strength, and despawn timer), adding a graphical identifier would literally be putting a face on top of it for players to visually see. Sort of like what warp npc's are. Both the coding and animation for warp already exist, so adding a new npc (pretty much a skin to the functionality) anywhere in the game isn't really much work at all.

[Kimble]

I don't think you understand coding tbh. Really, if you are doing a good burn, you dont really have time to checking chests and just popping it wahtever it might be. If you are doing a cleave for EXP then its even easier because you dont really care what is in the red chests.

[kingfury]

I'm no programmer no ^^; but I've had some education on the basics of a few programming languages here and there to know you can have a dozen of different faces/methods of activation for the same handful of code. It takes some tweaking depending on how you want the intended audience to interact with those different faces, but the end result of the action can still be based on that core coding.

Yeah, you lose 2hr chest that way... so I'm not too keen on the spamming open the chest logic, but different strokes for different folks yeah.^^ Red chest lose their worth when everyone is capped in the desired lights, so it just depends. I haven't done Fell Cleaving for EXP in a good while though.

[Kimble]

Normally, if you aren't even cleaving for exp, you will cleave with your desired lights capped or near cap (azure, amber, pearl) so you can just destroy red chests and not even need it. Oddly enough, this is the first time ive even heard anyone complain about chest in cleaves. Other than not getting enough/being able to get rid of them.

[kingfury]

Yep that's true about the lights, but technically, one can start Cleaving or mass killing by other means for time extensions once Azure is capped and then just build Pearl or any other lights along the way and still see valuable blue pyxis. Since Azure is the quickest to cap, in this scenario, red pyxis could still be used for a good while until everything's capped.

I'm usually farming for TE's over anything else, while the rest of my party is hunting down key items and so forth so my frustrations over the process stem from my experiences trying to mass kill then rummage through dozens of chest in a timely manner. Although, even when amongst my party members while mass killing, there are times when the process slows down killing due to the necessary rummaging. Again, I'm not saying it's not possible to check chest at a decent pace and find what you're looking for here, because we do it everyday, but only that the process can be improved.

[Kimble]

Can, but doesnt need to be, and rather they use their time on something more useful/fun.

[kingfury]

^^ Good thing it's a suggestion for the Devs then /

[Kimble]

Right, so, i guess the rest of us shouldn't say anything (unless its supporting your idea) because this is clearly not a place for discussion.

[TybudX]

No topic with Kingfury is ever open for discussion.

[CrystalWeapon]

Can, but doesnt need to be, and rather they use their time on something more useful/fun.


While we would like to implement fun things into the game, we have found that it is currently more difficult than we had originally anticipated. We have no plans to implement fun into the game at this time. We appologize for the inconvenience.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

On the topic of improving the chest's functionality, if you're going to suggest a "/destroypyxis <t>" command you should also include a "/checkpyxis <t>". If I were programming it, I would use a main and sub command for this.

Main command:
/pyxis

Sub command:
open (launches the guessing game)
check (displays the content of the chest)
destroy (destroys the chest)
key (uses a key on the chest provided you have one in your inventory)

^ Just makes it more generic and reusable provided you want to add more functionality to it later.

While it might seem like a good user friendly idea... I'm not so sure I want to see info displayed above every chest. Depending on how they would render it, it could cause some lag issues when dealing with a ton of chests.

As for self organizing chests, it would be nice, but I don't see them giving a positive response on that one. If you add collision detection upon spawn for chests it could go wrong if not tested thoroughly. Say you pull the monsters in a tight spot and kill them, there's always the possibility that the chests could fan out up a rockface, up a tree, under the map, etc... Now I'm not saying it can't be done, but this seems like something they would come back with and say was "too difficult to implement."

I would like to see the first, I don't care for the second, and I'm indifferent about the third.

[Eeek]

Normally, if you aren't even cleaving for exp, you will cleave with your desired lights capped or near cap (azure, amber, pearl) so you can just destroy red chests and not even need it. Oddly enough, this is the first time ive even heard anyone complain about chest in cleaves. Other than not getting enough/being able to get rid of them.

^ This ...


No topic with Kingfury is ever open for discussion.

And this.

[JovialRat]

i like the drawings. good job as always

[kingfury]

@ Kimble:

lol say wha?! You stated your opinion at the end of our discussion, and I simply pointed out that it's a good thing the Devs actually want suggestions about possible improvements, that's all.^^

We just had a 5+ post discussion lol I didn't bash or put down your opinions anywhere. I love discussions lol. Never said anyone has to agree with anything, and I haven't bashed the handful of folks on the 1st page for saying they believe the suggestion wasn't really needed. Go look! ^^

[Kimble]

I think the Devs actually want good/worthwhile suggestions/improvements is all.

[kingfury]

@ CrystalWeapon:

I'd love those commands to macro in man! It just would make things cleaner ^^

I would hope not in regards to the lag from the pyxis labels. Technically they wouldn't pop up until the pyxis content was "peered" at by a player so they wouldn't all just pop up once the chest dropped.

Yeah, I can see the challenge with programming the "Forced layout" thing with all the wonderful things that can get in the way. Just hoping the Devs continue testing ways to improve the outcome when lots of chest spawn. In any case it's good to let them know right?

[Selzak]

It'd be nice to have those labels, but I'm pretty sure it would create a tremendous amount of lag.

[kingfury]

I think the Devs actually want good/worthwhile suggestions/improvements is all.
-------------
Oh boy, see now you're just baiting for a little slap fight lol I'll /pass this time, thanks ^^

Your opinion is noted Kimble, thanks for the feedback /

[kingfury]

It'd be nice to have those labels, but I'm pretty sure it would create a tremendous amount of lag.
-----------
Again, I would hope not since they wouldn't appear until the player "peered" at the contents, or perhaps after choosing a "Display Pyxis Label" option after checking the contents. So you wouldn't just see a label instantly upon them dropping.

[kingfury]

i like the drawings. good job as always
------
Thanks for the feedback and compliment Jovial ^^/

[kingfury]

**Edit to OP**

"Additions that could help streamline the process:

• Adding a way to quickly "Visually communicate" the contents of a checked pyxis to other party members. Possible "Pyxis Labels", or "Pyxis Auras" could allow a player to check a pyxis and instantly Visually display the contents to effectively communicate to all party members in range the value of that pyxis. This could be accomplished by either adding an additional option to the pyxis menu called "Display Pyxis Label" or just perhaps making it an automatic response to the player "Peering through the cracks" of a Pyxis."

[Kimble]

I fail to see how "I like your drawings" is considered feedback.

Aura would really be a bad idea because "aura" type stuff is what causes the most leg in the game. SMN avatars, Confluexes, Teleport crystals, etc.

The main problem I see with labels is that its not something currently in the game so its not as simple as "just turn this on to make it visible", it would be something totally new for the game and could cause the same kind of lag.

[Selzak]

-----------
Again, I would hope not since they wouldn't appear until the player "peered" at the contents, or perhaps after choosing a "Display Pyxis Label" option after checking the contents. So you wouldn't just see a label instantly upon them dropping.
What would be the point then?

[RAIST]

What they need to do is work on where the chests drop in the first place. If they could somehow make them behave like they actually have some physical properties so they don't spawn on top/inside of each other, most of this would all be mute.

Adding the labels could create even more problems. Without the chests paying attention to collision/occlusion rules in any way shape or form, the labels would also get stacked on top of each other, in some cases rendering them useless as you wouldn't be able to read them. Also, doing so may negate the tweak they just made to increase the number of pyxis spawning. There is a limited amount of memory and address space to assign to NPC type items in a zone due to the PS2 hardware limitations--those same restrictions are built into the programming code as well, so they exist as a soft-cap on the other platforms as well. In short, this could reak a little havoc if implemented.

As I mentioned in the last thread on this idea, what really needs to be done is to streamline the menus. They need to change it so that we stay in the menus until we are done with the chest or exit out of the menus ourselves. This way we can check it ONE and ONLY one time:

/Check <t>
scroll down to peek inside the chest and we see the contents
--STAY IN THE MENU SYSTEM---
"Attempt to open chest" -->start the manual chest open sequence, staying in the menu system until we succeed, fail, or giveup.
"Open with a Forbidden Key"-->receive items and exit, or stay in the menu to add to lottable spoils, take items (again, staying in the menus system until we've taken all items or exited ourselves)
"Destroy the chest"-->chest is destroyed and get the cruor reward

As it is now, you have to check it multiple times to get through all the steps. This presents the bulk of the problem when the chests are spawning on top of each other.

[kingfury]

Though I didn't illustrate the "Pyxis aura" example in the OP, these wouldn't work like the current in-game auras you've named in that they wouldn't distort the visual graphics around them and such. They would look like three vertical lights affixed to the top of the pyxis that displayed the pyxis information through how tall and short they were. I just used the term "Aura" to describe the energy-like lights that would represent the information of the pyxis. I'll pop in an example to help convey the concept.

The kind of graphics I'm thinking for these identifiers actually do exist in the game already, they would simply have to be altered to work for this process. Graphically, they would be on par with the selection arrow we use to point at things with, and wouldn't need to have the graphic weight of say a crag pad or avatar. The programming of pairing these kinds graphics to display the pyxis information would just take a bit of tweaking.

[kingfury]

What would be the point then?
------------
In case you missed it,

"To make sure to clarify the grounds of my Pyxis Label suggestion, streamlining the check, communicate, and open process "party wide" is the goal with the visual indicators.

Depending on how many chest have dropped after a major pull, there are times when one key person is simply not enough to do this entire 3 step process effectively with enough time to spare for opening. No matter how fast your targeting finger is, there is in fact a slight lag from checking a pyxis that can't be helped and thus slows the process down even more so in the event of lots of chests to check.

The pyxis labels would allow for anyone in the party to help quickly identify the contents of the dozens of blue and red pyxis whether they have keys or not. If that player that's on key duty (or anyone in the party with keys) could look at a handful of chest and determine which ones to key open with just a glance, then you would be correct in your saying, "No verbal communication needed". Without it, you still have to say things like,
"ISL by me. No, to the far right. Well I know there's 5 blue chest to the far right ><. (all the while time is being lost) Here, right where I'm standing."
In this same example, the person on key duty could simply say
"ISL.", and the now activated visual pyxis label would do the rest."

The suggestion is targeted at times when a party has lots of chest to check when quick and accurate communication is needed to pop open all the desired chest before they despawn.

[RAIST]

meh.. that's just more internet traffic to continually spam the already clogged connections. An additional 8 byte check packet going up and down the pipe every second (or less) may not sound like a whole lot to you, but when you are dealing with about a 200ms (or more) RTT for that check, then multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of players....hello additional lag.

Their networks already suffer enough with stability issues....don't need to poor more salt on an open wound.

[kingfury]

meh.. that's just more internet traffic to continually spam the already clogged connections. An additional 8 byte check packet going up and down the pipe every second (or less) may not sound like a whole lot to you, but when you are dealing with about a 200ms (or more) RTT for that check, then multiply that by the hundreds of thousands of players....hello additional lag.

Their networks already suffer enough with stability issues....don't need to poor more salt on an open wound.
--------------
Perhaps ^^; Though, I'm always optimistic that there are problem solvers on SE's staff that are constantly working to solve the "difficult" stuff so the Devs can continue to add new and interesting content both big and small.

[Myrrh]

--------------
Perhaps ^^; Though, I'm always optimistic that there are problem solvers on SE's staff that are constantly working to solve the "difficult" stuff so the Devs can continue to add new and interesting content both big and small.

Have you never played FFXI? O.o

[kingfury]

What they need to do is work on where the chests drop in the first place. If they could somehow make them behave like they actually have some physical properties so they don't spawn on top/inside of each other, most of this would all be mute.
Adding the labels could create even more problems. Without the chests paying attention to collision/occlusion rules in any way shape or form, the labels would also get stacked on top of each other, in some cases rendering them useless as you wouldn't be able to read them. Also, doing so may negate the tweak they just made to increase the number of pyxis spawning. There is a limited amount of memory and address space to assign to NPC type items in a zone due to the PS2 hardware limitations--those same restrictions are built into the programming code as well, so they exist as a soft-cap on the other platforms as well. In short, this could reak a little havoc if implemented.
---------------
I agree and disagree with you here. I agree that the pyxis labels will not work without the improved pyxis layout tweaks 100% which is way I put the "Forced pyxis layout" in the OP. If the Devs in fact cannot remedy the pyxis pileup issue, then yeah, the labels could very well be useless in many situations involving certain types of monsters that just love to bunch up in Abyssea.

Where I disagree here, is the ability to quickly and accurately communicate which pyxis has what and where, won't be solved by placement issues alone. The labels would solve the problem of having to pretty much stand on a pyxis to identify to which pyxis you're are talking about when there are lots of chest surrounding the party.


As I mentioned in the last thread on this idea, what really needs to be done is to streamline the menus. They need to change it so that we stay in the menus until we are done with the chest or exit out of the menus ourselves. This way we can check it ONE and ONLY one time:

/Check <t>
scroll down to peek inside the chest and we see the contents
--STAY IN THE MENU SYSTEM---
"Attempt to open chest" -->start the manual chest open sequence, staying in the menu system until we succeed, fail, or giveup.
"Open with a Forbidden Key"-->receive items and exit, or stay in the menu to add to lottable spoils, take items (again, staying in the menus system until we've taken all items or exited ourselves)
"Destroy the chest"-->chest is destroyed and get the cruor reward

As it is now, you have to check it multiple times to get through all the steps. This presents the bulk of the problem when the chests are spawning on top of each other.
-------------
I do agree with this point! ‹Yes Please!› Devs to this ^^ /

[kingfury]

Have you never played FFXI? O.o
-----------
Oh come on now ^^ you can't forget how many new things we've gotten over the years even after SE initially said it would be "difficult" or "hard to implement" now.

80 inventory plus a satchel, new avatars, little stuff like adding our names to the stagger menu, and more ^^ Some things take longer than other of course, but they've shown improves.

btw, I friggin dig your signature Myrrh ^^ did you create it?

[Kimble]

Well as far as the inventory went, they said they cant expand it past 80, which, is still true, they were just able to add, locker, sack, satchel to give us more inventory.

And sorry, Alexander and Odin still dont count as "new avatars" Their reasons for not being to do something stayed true, they just did a kind of "work around" to get around the issues.

[HFX7686]

I don't think this is a necessary suggestion and improvement to the game. Chests work fine the way they are now. It is a waste of time and resources to change them. I'd rather have the development team working on new and interesting content and fixing older content that has been outlevelled and made obsolete than screwing about with a system that is fine the way it is.

[kingfury]

Well as far as the inventory went, they said they cant expand it past 80, which, is still true, they were just able to add, locker, sack, satchel to give us more inventory.
----------
I'm talking pre 80 inventory of course. Still, they said this was "difficult" to even do at one point, and now we have it.


And sorry, Alexander and Odin still dont count as "new avatars" Their reasons for not being to do something stayed true, they just did a kind of "work around" to get around the issues.
----------------
^^ Well, I'll give'em credit for at least attempting to "work around" the issue for now. Still lots of time to add new stuff. The point is they're continuing to try to fit "difficult" things in as time goes on.

[kingfury]

I don't think this is a necessary suggestion and improvement to the game. Chests work fine the way they are now. It is a waste of time and resources to change them. I'd rather have the development team working on new and interesting content and fixing older content that has been outlevelled and made obsolete than screwing about with a system that is fine the way it is.
----------------
Yeah, I've said a couple of times it's not going to break the game if they don't add the suggestion, it's just a suggestion for streamlining the system.

Though I'll say again, yes the chest system works, but when it's being pushed to it's limits of how the system works, it doesn't work very well in our favor. If you only have a handful pyxis to pop open, there's no issues. If you have 15+ to rummage through and communicate to party members specific chest and their exact location amongst the frey, things can get a bit hairy. That's not even mentioning the pileup issue.

But, your opinion is noted, thanks for your feedback /

[Kimble]

I dont recall them ever saying they couldnt expand inventory to 80.

[kingfury]

I fail to see how "I like your drawings" is considered feedback.
------------
Forgot to address this Kimble. It's not to hard to understand, so I'll break it down right quick. The art accompanying my suggestion in the OP is original art. Art can receive feedback from a viewer. He said, "I like your drawings.(feedback for the art) Good job as always.(the compliment) I replied accordingly with, "Thanks for the feedback and compliment."


Aura would really be a bad idea because "aura" type stuff is what causes the most leg in the game. SMN avatars, Confluexes, Teleport crystals, etc.

The main problem I see with labels is that its not something currently in the game so its not as simple as "just turn this on to make it visible", it would be something totally new for the game and could cause the same kind of lag.
----------

Though I didn't illustrate the "Pyxis aura" example in the OP, these wouldn't work like the current in-game auras you've named in that they wouldn't distort the visual graphics around them and such. They would look like three vertical lights affixed to the top of the pyxis that displayed the pyxis information through how tall and short they were. I just used the term "Aura" to describe the energy-like lights that would represent the information of the pyxis. I'll pop in an example to help convey the concept.

The kind of graphics I'm thinking for these identifiers actually do exist in the game already, they would simply have to be altered to work for this process. Graphically, they would be on par with the selection arrow we use to point at things with, and wouldn't need to have the graphic weight of say a crag pad or avatar. The programming of pairing these kinds graphics to display the pyxis information would just take a bit of tweaking.
---------------
Here's that example.

**Edit to OP**


• Pyxis Auras:
»Pyxis Labels example 3 (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/PyxisLabels-4-Web.jpg)

[RAIST]

the issue of difiiculty communicating to the group keeps coming up, so I have to ask.. just what is the difficulty?

When we do cleaves, we specify what lights we want, others are ignored. Before unwanted boxes were just left to rot. Now, the key whore can just destroy the ones we don't want. When we have the big temp items one, we just say "temps in 5.. use them if you got 'em", count down 5 ticks on the clock and pop them.

The only thing we have any real interaction over is the gold, and even then it's more just "XXX job in pool", or "<key item> roll for it". Lottable items are immediately sent to pool. Sometimes people are looking for specific augmented items, and if they make it known they are after it the box opener lets them know when they show up, else they are free for people to grab to NPC them. The openers usually get them first b/c they are there with the chest of course.

Sounds like maybe you guys are just over-complicating what should be a non-issue.

[wish12oz]

In case no one has said it, that is by far the ugliest drawing of a mithra I have ever seen ever in my life ever.
You should really change it.

[kingfury]

the issue of difiiculty communicating to the group keeps coming up, so I have to ask.. just what is the difficulty?

When we do cleaves, we specify what lights we want, others are ignored. Before unwanted boxes were just left to rot. Now, the key whore can just destroy the ones we don't want. When we have the big temp items one, we just say "temps in 5.. use them if you got 'em", count down 5 ticks on the clock and pop them.

The only thing we have any real interaction over is the gold, and even then it's more just "XXX job in pool", or "<key item> roll for it". Lottable items are immediately sent to pool. Sometimes people are looking for specific augmented items, and if they make it known they are after it the box opener lets them know when they show up, else they are free for people to grab to NPC them. The openers usually get them first b/c they are there with the chest of course.

Sounds like maybe you guys are just over-complicating what should be a non-issue.
-----------------
Y'know it never dawned on me to mention it until now after reading this post that folks Fell Cleave differently lol. Okay, to be very clear, I'm referencing the 2 hour pyxis and Time extension pyxis specifically. Both these chest are blue and can manage to find ways to scramble the ability to direct a player, say the Cleaver in the party, to it's specific where-a-bouts just by saying something like, "It's behind me" when there's could be 8+ blue pyxis behind that person.

If someone in your party doesn't have keys and wants to help check the loads of chest around (to save time for the key person), they will often say things like, "TE here" or "2hr here". All the while the key person or the Cleaver is most likely checking for the same chest on the other side of the pile. Now, I personally like to Fell Cleave with my 2hr goin to make quick work of the massive pile of enemies, but that's just how I like to do it. It's not necessary at all in terms of functionality, but it does save lots of time. Because of this fact, I hunt 1st for my next 2hr chest after each cleave. When there's 15+ blue chest all crowded around you, the folks in the party usually jump in to help with locating that 2hr chest whether they have keys or not. If they find it before I do, my question to them is "where?". The best a player can do right now is try to visually describe the location of the chest amongst the pile, or just stand on it.

Rather than take that time to try and detail a verbal location to the chest or try and position one's self on top of a pyxis, the suggestion aims to "visually flag" any pyxis that has importance so that every party member can see. That's the improved communication I speak of.

[kingfury]

In case no one has said it, that is by far the ugliest drawing of a mithra I have ever seen ever in my life ever.
You should really change it.
-----------
lol In her defense, she has both her hat and hand covering her face, so I don't think you can really see her features at all!

[RAIST]

-----------------
Y'know it never dawned on me to mention it until now after reading this post that folks Fell Cleave differently lol. Okay, to very clear, I'm referencing the 2 hour pyxis and Time extension pyxis specifically. Both these chest are blue and can manage to find ways to scramble the ability to direct a player, say the Cleaver in the party, to it's specific where-a-bouts just by saying something like, "It's behind me" when there's could be 8+ blue pyxis behind that person.

If someone in your party doesn't have keys and wants to help check the loads of chest around (to save time for the key person), they will often say things like, "TE here" or "2hr here". All the while the key person or the Cleaver is most likely checking for the same chest on the other side of the pile. Now, I personally like to Fell Cleave with my 2hr goin to make quick work of the massive pile of enemies, but that's just how I like to do it. It's not necessary at all in terms of functionality, but it does save lots of time. Because of this fact, I hunt 1st for my next 2hr chest after each cleave. When there's 15+ blue chest all crowded around you, the folks in the party usually jump in to help with locating that 2hr chest whether they have keys or not. If they find it before I do, my question to them is "where?". The best a player can do right now is try to visually describe the location of the chest amongst the pile, or just stand on it.

Rather than take that time to try and detail a verbal location to the chest or try and position one's self on top of a pyxis, the suggestion aims to "visually flag" any pyxis that has importance so that every party member can see. That's the improved communication I speak of.

Again, over-complicating it. If you are fell cleaving, you have a wicked TP gain--more mobs hittting you and more mobs hit = more TP return. Only really need 1 or 2 chests per pull tops. By the time they go round up the mobs and come back, chests should be done--at least the blue ones.

Simple solution, pop/destroy all but the two hours--then they just use their macro to pop a chest when they need it.

[Kimble]

-----------
lol In her defense, she has both her hat and hand covering her face, so I don't think you can really see her features at all!

Dude, shes not wearing a hat nor is her hand anywhere near her face.

Also, you only really need one 2hr chest so I dont see why its so hard to pop everything else you need, and then have the keyer stand at the chest that is 2hr.

[kingfury]

Dude, shes not wearing a hat nor is her hand anywhere near her face.

Also, you only really need one 2hr chest so I dont see why its so hard to pop everything else you need, and then have the keyer stand at the chest that is 2hr.
------------
Do you even know what Wish is talking about Kimble? Step back and figure out the convo' before you jump in next time. >< Wish is referring to the "Forced pyxis Layout" example on the OP. It features a BLM mithra that has a pose where she's holding up a peace sign in front of her face. Pretty much all that can be seen is her smile.

Didn't say it was hard to pop anything for those that have keys, only that when rummaging through lots of chest while searching for that 2hr and TE, it would nice for any party member (the ones with no keys) to flag the chests in question to quickly communicate it's location.

[Kimble]

No, Wish was referring to your sig, lol.

I doubt wish even looking at your drawings tbh.

[kingfury]

In that case, my apologies to you then /bow. I was almost surprised that Wish took the time out to actually look the examples, but if he/she actually is referring to my sig, then oh well. ^^

His/Her right to have an opinion about such things, doesn't bother me either way.

Again, sorry to snap at'cha if it was towards my sig.

[wish12oz]

Why not just ask for an easy identifier for every type of chest. Like time chests are now blue, cruor pruple, time indigo, amber lights are now offyellow/brown, ruby are red, azure can be azure, items chests can all stay gold. This is way easier to implement and more useful then labeling them.


EDIT:: I meant your sig, I didnt look at any picture you posted because I had not yet read the thread, and there is no [img] tag =/
Sorry for the confusion.

[kingfury]

Why not just ask for an easy identifier for every type of chest. Like time chests are now blue, cruor pruple, time indigo, amber lights are now offyellow/brown, ruby are red, azure can be azure, items chests can all stay gold. This is way easier to implement and more useful then labeling them.
--------------
Great idea! I'd take this as a fix too. Simple and effective. See what happens when you read the post? lol

thanks for the feedback /


EDIT:: I meant your sig, I didnt look at any picture you posted because I had not yet read the thread, and there is no [img] tag =/
Sorry for the confusion.
---------
Unless I missed when they start allowing us to imbed images in our post, those example links are the best I can do for now. Again, you have the right to your opinion on the Sig. ^^

[Dmer]

As I mentioned in the last thread on this idea, what really needs to be done is to streamline the menus. They need to change it so that we stay in the menus until we are done with the chest or exit out of the menus ourselves. This way we can check it ONE and ONLY one time:

/Check <t>
scroll down to peek inside the chest and we see the contents
--STAY IN THE MENU SYSTEM---
"Attempt to open chest" -->start the manual chest open sequence, staying in the menu system until we succeed, fail, or giveup.
"Open with a Forbidden Key"-->receive items and exit, or stay in the menu to add to lottable spoils, take items (again, staying in the menus system until we've taken all items or exited ourselves)
"Destroy the chest"-->chest is destroyed and get the cruor reward

As it is now, you have to check it multiple times to get through all the steps. This presents the bulk of the problem when the chests are spawning on top of each other.

Agree completely with this idea but i'd like to see one other change:
Have the peak between the crack option removed and have the information you would get from the peak told to you when you click it the first time before the menu comes up. Then you can just choose to destroy, open with key, or screw around with guesses if people even bother to still do it other than for the blue chest quest.

[Rie]

We just key toss all blue boxes when cleaving. I don't think this is a needed update at all.

I also wish you wouldn't change your sig so often Kingfury, it requires so much effort on my part to ad-block them.

[kingfury]

We just key toss all blue boxes when cleaving. I don't think this is a needed update at all.

I also wish you wouldn't change your sig so often Kingfury, it requires so much effort on my part to ad-block them.
------------
Thanks for your opinion /

and ‹Huh?!›

[RAIST]

------------
Didn't say it was hard to pop anything for those that have keys, only that when rummaging through lots of chest while searching for that 2hr and TE, it would nice for any party member (the ones with no keys) to flag the chests in question to quickly communicate it's location.

Again.. overcomplicating it. If you are popping all blues but the 2hr blue, then that's a no brainer which ones are the 2hrs.

If someone is checking the boxes and not popping them.. than all they need to do is stand by the freaking chest. Same goes for a gold--"<key item> in gold @ me... random to pop".

In all seriousness...as a general rule (barring someone is new to aby and has no cruor yet) NO ONE should be attending a fell cleave without keys. Even in the event it is someone new, they WILL get cruor quickly, and SHOULD go get keys. It is a REQUIREMENT FOR ATTENDANCE in our shells that you use no less than 100 keys. If someone sees a TE, unless there is an issue of someone being dead or not in zone yet that desperately needs the TE--they should just pop the freaking thing. Same goes for ruby chests--if you make it clear what is wanted from them, they can just pop them or destroy them as well.

[Kimble]

Actually, the person needs to be in the zone at the time the chest drops in order to get TE.

[RAIST]

Actually, the person needs to be in the zone at the time the chest drops in order to get TE.

the point is there should almost never be a reason for someone not to pop a TE chest as soon as it is spotted.

In the general sense, there should be no reason for anyone inspecting chests to not have the options to pop it, destroy it, or stand by it to mark it for someone else to claim the R/E items inside it-- a blue 2hr can simply be left unpopped for the melee's to use. The key is giving clear instructions as to what is wanted.

[kingfury]

Again.. overcomplicating it. If you are popping all blues but the 2hr blue, then that's a no brainer which ones are the 2hrs.

If someone is checking the boxes and not popping them.. than all they need to do is stand by the freaking chest. Same goes for a gold--"<key item> in gold @ me... random to pop".

In all seriousness...as a general rule (barring someone is new to aby and has no cruor yet) NO ONE should be attending a fell cleave without keys. Even in the event it is someone new, they WILL get cruor quickly, and SHOULD go get keys. It is a REQUIREMENT FOR ATTENDANCE in our shells that you use no less than 100 keys. If someone sees a TE, unless there is an issue of someone being dead or not in zone yet that desperately needs the TE--they should just pop the freaking thing. Same goes for ruby chests--if you make it clear what is wanted from them, they can just pop them or destroy them as well.
--------------
I don't disagree with you that all should have keys and should be ready to pop chest one bit. ^^ Doesn't always work out this way of course for everyone though, so you get folks that help check boxes and such.

Yep I already know the o'l "stand on a pyxis" method. ^^ The suggestion is about streamlining the process so folks don't have to do that. I'll say once again, if it's a 2hr box for the Cleaver to pop, imagine if the person checking the box could identify the box without having to say where it is or stand on it due to that fact that there's a visual identifier handling all that for ya. If there's TE's that need poppin and they have keys, then no, there's no need for communication or flagging.

Whether it's a graphic label or different colored boxes like Wish suggested(though the colors alone wouldn't tell ya how much time is left or how strong the light is/rank the chest is with just a glance), "streamlining" a process is all about improving efficiency. The very same as what just happened with the Atma infusion menu. Did we need it? Not really, since the menu worked "just fine" in terms of locating and selecting 3 Atmas from page lists. Are the new menu options faster at infusing atmas? Yep. The time it takes to infuse Atma choices has dropped dramatically.

[Kimble]

You want to steamline the process? Tell everyone to carry god damn keys on them.

[wish12oz]

stuff

Quit trying to make sense! He wants his overcomplicated super system most people won't use or care about!

[kingfury]

You want to steamline the process? Tell everyone to carry god damn keys on them.
---------
/stagger yes, spam all boxes so the 2hrs get wasted again and again. ><

[kingfury]

Quit trying to make sense! He wants his overcomplicated super system most people won't use or care about!
-----------
Adding a graphic version of what you read in your chat log is overcomplicated for you Wish? ‹That's to bad.› ; ;

[Kimble]

---------
/stagger yes, spam all boxes so the 2hrs get wasted again and again. ><

No, pop all the chest you need and destory the ones you dont, wont be to hard to guess what blue box is left up then would it?

[kingfury]

No, pop all the chest you need and destory the ones you dont, wont be to hard to guess what blue box is left up then would it?
---------
No, not if there's like 7 chest on the ground. If there's 15+ chest all nestled closely together and there's lots of checking to be done, then yea.

[Kimble]

Still not hard, and labeling wont fix that. The only idea you had that was good was having the chests not stack on top of each other.

[kingfury]

Still not hard, and labeling wont fix that. The only idea you had that was good was having the chests not stack on top of each other.
----------
And you're still only selective reading what's being posted. ^^ I never said it was "hard", just that is "cumbersome" and "can be annoying" when you have that many chest to check in 3mins.

And yes Labeling "Could" fix the annoyance since once the 2hr box is located amongst the bunch the key person could quickly flag the 2hr box without having to slow down the check process and detail where it is or stand on it, and proceed to key and destroy all other chest. One could argue, the same could be done with keys in terms of popping the chest around the 2hr box, but depending on how many keys you have and how many chest are around the 2hr box, that could be a major waste.

[CrystalWeapon]

Still not hard, and labeling wont fix that. The only idea you had that was good was having the chests not stack on top of each other.

I disagree there. I think a system to check or destroy boxes via a macro would come in handy albeit not necessary. The box aura / labeling idea, I personally believe we can do without.

[Kimble]

Well yes, the macro command is a good idea, but that wasnt his idea.

If you want to get into semantics King then ok. Its not really that ""cumbersome" and "not really that annoying"

[kingfury]

Well yes, the macro command is a good idea, but that wasnt his idea.

If you want to get into semantics King then ok. Its not really that ""cumbersome" and "not really that annoying"
--------
Wha? the /destroypyxis <t> is at the top of the OP. lol ><
The checking of a pyxis via a macro was suggested by CrystalWeapon on post 17 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9456-dev-1015-Adding-Visual-Identifiers-for-a-Pyxis-Pyxis-Labels-and-More?p=118760&viewfull=1#post118760).

Well when you deal with it as much as I do, which is just about every other Abyssea run, that perspective can change a bit.

[Kimble]

Yes, I do deal with it as much as you do, because I cleave about every run we do for time/kis while working on peoples weapons. As well as doing cleaves to level up people jobs in LS.

[kingfury]

Well, then it's a matter of opinion on the matter Kimble, which as I've said before is all fine and cool if you don't see it as I do. I simply would like a quicker method of identifying/communicating the contents party wide is all. No argument needed in terms of if you believe it's necessary or not.

[RAIST]

I'm sorry, but I just have never seen any issues with communicating to the party during a cleave. Maybe it's your setup, maybe it's the people... who knows. All I know is we call out what we are looking for, we assign roles so everyone knows who's doing what, and it just runs like a machine more or less.

Only thing we take any time to talk about what is in a box really is when it's a KI or some really good augment item someone is looking for. IDK if ther set up or what, but our cleavers don't even bother with 2 hours. Got one spinning top of death taru that gets his TP so fast he self-chains like crazy. When I'm in there assisting with AOE's too it's an insane splatter fest.

The ONLY issue we have ever run into is the earlier mentioned issue of boxes stacking on top of each other. Having any ID on them really wouldn't do much of anything to remedy that situation, and will just inject more lag into an already poorly performing environment, and further reduce the resources available to spawn the chests (in effect lowering the spawn count that just got increased). Custom colors is an interesting approach, but that may again cause some issues depending on exactly how the chests are rendored--if they are independently colored textures for each chest type and not handled some how shaders, it's more objects injected and again reduces resources available to the zone--contributing to an already established bigger problem and making it worse, in effect reverting an adjustment that was just made to increase chest count.

What really needs to be done to streamline the process in a balanced way across the board is to tweak the existng flawed mechanics of the process--assigning physical properties to the boxes that actually adhere to collision rules, and fixing the menus so you don't have to keep re-targetting the boxes. This will not have a dramatic account on memory use to the point of a potential mass reduction of chest spawns like putting on labels or potentially adding additional colored chests (the latter depending on how they are actually colored).

[TybudX]

And you're still only selective reading what's being posted.

Pot, kettle, black.

It's not a conversation if the only accepted responses are ones that agree directly with your opinion. It's a lecture.

[Maurauc]

I just don't think we need more aura type things going on.. Confluxes and crystals already lag me to hell.. Having 12 boxes with different icons and glows protruding from them wouldn't help much either.

[kingfury]

Pot, kettle, black.

It's not a conversation if the only accepted responses are ones that agree directly with your opinion. It's a lecture.
------------
Oh shoo now ^^ I've accepted other's opinions all throughout this thread lol Go back and read if you need to see this. Or wait... Scroll up to post #74.

I simply corrected the word choice Kimble chose to use in his post. The OP states that I understand this opening of chests process has been made familiar by us all through lots of practice and that it's not "hard" to do, just cumbersome and annoying once there's tons of chests all around and could be streamlined.

[kingfury]

I just don't think we need more aura type things going on.. Confluxes and crystals already lag me to hell.. Having 12 boxes with different icons and glows protruding from them wouldn't help much either.
-----------
In cased you skipped over it(from post 31):

"Though I didn't illustrate the "Pyxis aura" example in the OP(added this recently), these wouldn't work like the current in-game auras you've named in that they wouldn't distort the visual graphics around them and such. They would look like three vertical lights affixed to the top of the pyxis that displayed the pyxis information through how tall and short they were. I just used the term "Aura" to describe the energy-like lights that would represent the information of the pyxis. I'll pop in an example to help convey the concept.

The kind of graphics I'm thinking for these identifiers actually do exist in the game already, they would simply have to be altered to work for this process. Graphically, they would be on par with the selection arrow we use to point at things with, and wouldn't need to have the graphic weight of say a crag pad or avatar. The programming of pairing these kinds graphics to display the pyxis information would just take a bit of tweaking."

[kingfury]

@ RAIST:
Yeah, I suppose it could just be the folks I've been Cleaving with all these months lol ><

^^ You've made it clear with your description of "how you Fell Cleave" with your runs. The part you're missing is the part about the 2hr boxes during a Cleaving session. I said this part in an earlier post, one doesn't need their 2hr to effectively FC mobs at all, but If you haven't tried 2hr Cleaves from pull to pull, then it's the difference of doing a 1-2 FC vs 2-3+ Cleaves. It can simply save time is all. I said that I prefer doing it this way whenever I get the opportunity, since with that 2hr Cleave you can safely murder far more monsters in 1-2 clean swipes per pull. That's the difference in my example from yours. To reiterate, a 2hr it's not needed for effective Cleaving, but it does save time per pull. I communicate to my party to let me know if they find a 2hr box and then pop'em when I see'em. That's all. The problem comes in when I've murdered 15+ mobs that all drop blue boxes and the one 2hr box in the bunch is hiding amongst the few that no one has checked yet, and there's only 5secs left once someone finds the box. lol It's happened more times than I care to remember. ><

Again, I'll say that your points about the collision are valid, and I don't disagree with the logic of everyone that's checking boxes should have keys.

[HFX7686]

I don't understand why this thread is still going. This idea is silly and would require too much of the development team's time to implement. It's not needed as the chests work fine now. There is no need for "improvement" (which this suggestion certainly is not).

If you're really having that much problems with chests, just bring enough keys and pop them all with a macro. There's no shortage of cruor out there.

[kingfury]

I don't understand why this thread is still going. This idea is silly and would require too much of the development team's time to implement. It's not needed as the chests work fine now. There is no need for "improvement" (which this suggestion certainly is not).
---------------
I wonder why a good handful of players have this notion that the Devs have only 5 people working on development at a time with this game. >< Very often with game development staff members, each person is capable of designing, coding, and structuring content for implementation, though they still are assigned specific areas to focus on. This kind of suggestion would take no more than one to two people to design, code and have ready for testing. It's a cosmetic suggestion for communicating, so it's not that extensive development wise. ^^ I'm almost positive they have enough folks on the development staff to fix small things like menus and npc/NM placement and still continue with core game development content.

Your opinion of whether they're needed or not is fine, and it's cool if you disagree.

If you're really having that much problems with chests, just bring enough keys and pop them all with a macro. There's no shortage of cruor out there.
-----------
I don't think you're really reading my examples that I'm posting though since more keys throughout the party won't solve the problem that I'm talking about.

[TybudX]

I've accepted other's opinions all throughout this thread

You've accepted only the opinions or suggestions of people who agree with you. It's like communicating with a brick wall, except people sometimes write useful information on brick walls.

[RAIST]

@ RAIST:
Yeah, I suppose it could just be the folks I've been Cleaving with all these months lol ><

^^ You've made it clear with your description of "how you Fell Cleave" with your runs. The part you're missing is the part about the 2hr boxes during a Cleaving session. I said this part in an earlier post, one doesn't need their 2hr to effectively FC mobs at all, but If you haven't tried 2hr Cleaves from pull to pull, then it's the difference of doing a 1-2 FC vs 2-3+ Cleaves. It can simply save time is all. I said that I prefer doing it this way whenever I get the opportunity, since with that 2hr Cleave you can safely murder far more monsters in 1-2 clean swipes per pull. That's the difference in my example from yours. To reiterate, a 2hr it's not needed for effective Cleaving, but it does save time per pull. I communicate to my party to let me know if they find a 2hr box and then pop'em when I see'em. That's all. The problem comes in when I've murdered 15+ mobs that all drop blue boxes and the one 2hr box in the bunch is hiding amongst the few that no one has checked yet, and there's only 5secs left once someone finds the box. lol It's happened more times than I care to remember. ><

Again, I'll say that your points about the collision are valid, and I don't disagree with the logic of everyone that's checking boxes should have keys.

highlighted the problem for you. The problem is likely more with your chest openers, and less the game mechanics.

Generally, we just open them up until we can isolate the blues. Generally, I really don't even bother destroying the ruby as it is just faster to pop them with a key--being able to macro destruction would trim that up considerably. Once Az/Pe is capped, ruby/ebon is negligible uness you are really trying for feet/KI. Sometimes there is a misfire and we pop a blue by mistake because they are on top of eachother (this goes to the way they drop that needs fixing)--but typically we can open/destroy all but the blue in seconds after a kill. Leaves more than a minute for the one person to check the contents of a handful of blue while the other checks the gold. By the time the cleaver is back with his horde, chests are ready if he/she wants them.

Lately, I've run into a problem where you have to pace yourself too. Seems like everyone is on a cleaving binge. Even SOLOING I have trouble finding targets nearby sometimes. 2 hrs can sometimes contribute to that problem. Had to give up on crabs in Grauberg one day and switch to Monitors because of that crap.

[kingfury]

You've accepted only the opinions or suggestions of people who agree with you. It's like communicating with a brick wall, except people sometimes write useful information on brick walls.
--------------
If I'm a brick wall, then you must be friggin' blind. Seriously. How do you come up with this stuff?

• Post #8 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9456-dev-1015-Adding-Visual-Identifiers-for-a-Pyxis-Pyxis-Labels-and-More?p=118130&viewfull=1#post118130)
----
• "Well, then it's a matter of opinion on the matter Kimble, which as I've said before is all fine and cool if you don't see it as I do."
----

We just key toss all blue boxes when cleaving. I don't think this is a needed update at all.
• "Thanks for your opinion /"
----

I don't understand why this thread is still going. This idea is silly and would require too much of the development team's time to implement. It's not needed as the chests work fine now. There is no need for "improvement" (which this suggestion certainly is not).
• "Your opinion of whether they're needed or not is fine, and it's cool if you disagree."
--------------
If you're not going to read anything throughout the thread, then just stop posting. You have salt in your water and you're mad for no reason, I get it. Shoo now, away with ya.

[Khiinroye]

Kingfury:
Are you just standing around between pulls? Are your melees always standing at the same spot, or moving a few feet over so the new chests pop away from the old chests? You can be keying all blue chests indiscriminately since you're one of the intended recipients of the ISL chests. If you're not finding ISL chests until they are out of time, then adding visual indicators will slow down the checking process and make the issue worse. The solution is to bring more keyers. If it's because people are rechecking chests...why are those people not keying or destroying the chests they are checking? That would prevent rechecking and can be solved by not being lazy and cheap.

15 chests with 1 keyer: 12 seconds per chest.
15 chests with 2 keyers: 24 seconds per chest. Chests can be manually opened faster than that.

Standard XP alliances will not be picky on ISL, and giant open gold chests are a pretty good visual indicator for key items or augmented items. Those will always have people who check chests and don't key them unless they are time, so it will cause extra lag in those situations. I haven't seen a single person saying they have the same trouble as your group, so it seems that its something that your group could improve on, not something that needs to be changed in the game's design or mechanics.

You're not "accepting" opinions that disagree with you, you're blowing them off with the equivalent of "yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man". You have not addressed the reasons they have given to show why your idea (i.e. your opinion) is bad. You just label them as "opinions" and that's that for you. If you can't see that, stop posting now. Shoo now, away with ya.

[Corwin]

Terrible idea and a terribler sig. Spaghetti code, lag, and overall useless says no. And those lips. /shudder

[wish12oz]

-----------
Adding a graphic version of what you read in your chat log is overcomplicated for you Wish? ‹That's to bad.› ; ;

It's overcomplicated because it involves someone looking into a chest to see what it is, then adding a mark to identify what it is to everyone else. Which could already beaccomplished by simply saying "Hey, Im standing on a 2 hour chest." (or whatever)

Much simpler solutions exist, like everyone carrying keys, or different colors for every box (which is way better and easier to implement) or simply being like "Hey, Im standing on the box you wanted." I don't see why we need an overly complex system, that involves doing lots of stuff, simple is better.

[Alhanelem]

5 pages later I'm not convinced that this is in any way worth any kind of time investment, considering that chests are easy enough to handle as it is now.

The only thing I hate is when your HP is low after a fight and you try to check the chest and
Event skipped.
Event skipped.
Event skipped.
when you get curebombed.

[TybudX]

If you're not going to read anything throughout the thread, then just stop posting. You have salt in your water and you're mad for no reason, I get it. Shoo now, away with ya.

I'm mad because you manage to come up with a stupid idea every other day. I have read your posts, and the thread. I see a lot of people telling you it's a bad idea, telling you it's a coding nightmare (hint: look at the areas of the game where you get lag, like tele-crystals and maws), telling you (and here's the important one) it's a waste of the developer's time, time they could spend doing something worthwhile. You are a brick wall because you deflect any and all criticism of your ideas as worthless. And no, saying "ok I appreciate the advise lol" is not 'cool' when you utterly dismiss it.

Here's some advise(which you will completely ignore, because that's what you do best): quit trying to ruin our game. Do you hate FFXI? Why do you want SE wasting time doing useless crap instead of fixing real problems?

[kingfury]

I'm mad because you manage to come up with a stupid idea every other day. I have read your posts, and the thread. I see a lot of people telling you it's a bad idea, telling you it's a coding nightmare (hint: look at the areas of the game where you get lag, like tele-crystals and maws), telling you (and here's the important one) it's a waste of the developer's time, time they could spend doing something worthwhile. You are a brick wall because you deflect any and all criticism of your ideas as worthless. And no, saying "ok I appreciate the advise lol" is not 'cool' when you utterly dismiss it.

Here's some advise(which you will completely ignore, because that's what you do best): quit trying to ruin our game. Do you hate FFXI? Why do you want SE wasting time doing useless crap instead of fixing real problems?
-------------
OK, unless your "View created Threads" link is broken, here's some advice for you... SUGGEST something 1st before telling me what you think is a "stupid idea"! Try that if you in fact play and love this game as I do. Otherwise you're just troll camping these boards hoping to start random crap with people.

If you in fact read the post I just directed to you, you would see you're just trolling for no reason other than just to troll. You were wrong is what I just highlighted. It's like you skipped over everything and just decided to post your "misguided madness." Don't try and skim over the OP now, because it shows even more so that you're not reading anything I've said. You wouldn't get the lag that you get from avatars and crag areas. I posted that 2 times now.

I don't need your type of post at all since they have nothing constructive in the least. Thanks.

[Myrrh]

A+, would read again.

[kingfury]

Kingfury:
Are you just standing around between pulls? Are your melees always standing at the same spot, or moving a few feet over so the new chests pop away from the old chests? You can be keying all blue chests indiscriminately since you're one of the intended recipients of the ISL chests. If you're not finding ISL chests until they are out of time, then adding visual indicators will slow down the checking process and make the issue worse. The solution is to bring more keyers. If it's because people are rechecking chests...why are those people not keying or destroying the chests they are checking? That would prevent rechecking and can be solved by not being lazy and cheap.

15 chests with 1 keyer: 12 seconds per chest.
15 chests with 2 keyers: 24 seconds per chest. Chests can be manually opened faster than that.

Standard XP alliances will not be picky on ISL, and giant open gold chests are a pretty good visual indicator for key items or augmented items. Those will always have people who check chests and don't key them unless they are time, so it will cause extra lag in those situations. I haven't seen a single person saying they have the same trouble as your group, so it seems that its something that your group could improve on, not something that needs to be changed in the game's design or mechanics.

You're not "accepting" opinions that disagree with you, you're blowing them off with the equivalent of "yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion, man". You have not addressed the reasons they have given to show why your idea (i.e. your opinion) is bad. You just label them as "opinions" and that's that for you. If you can't see that, stop posting now. Shoo now, away with ya.
-------------
Nah, I'm also searching for 2hr boxes in the bunch. Monsters never stand in the same place when pulled, so boxes always randomly spawn around in new positions.

The point would be if I'm not the one that finds the 2hr box in the mix of chest, the person that did can flag it for me so I could quickly know where to direct my key to pop it. They wouldn't have to say any more than "2hr box here" and keep on moving.

I'm not sure I understand your "15 chest with 1 keyer = 12secs per chest example". Are you saying that's how long it takes to check, and open a chest with a key?

Actually, your post has sparked the idea of maybe allowing 2hr boxes to be keyed open without releasing the effect until someone selected the contents similar to Gold boxes. This would work the very same way as the suggested pyxis labels in terms of communicating which box was the 2hr box. Since this is the only blue or red box that is player dependent in terms of who keys open the chest receives the reward, it would function like a Key item chest. No graphics needed. ^^ Thanks. But all things considered, it could very well be the folks I Cleave with.

If the poster gives me a detailed opinion that I can respond to in detail, then I respond to it accordingly, just as I'm doing with yours. If it's something short like, "Dumb idea, we don't need it", then I respond to it accordingly with "Thanks for your opinion." It's not "dismissive" if I'm thanking them for their opinion, it's respectful. Dismissive would be belittling their opinion as if to say it's not worthy of even discussing. Everyone that has posted a valid argument here on the topic at hand, I've responded to them accordingly.

Thanks for your feedback and opinion. /

[kingfury]

A+, would read again.
-----------
lol /cues joke drumroll ^^

Myrrh, you never answered if you created your sig.

[kingfury]

**EDIT TO OP**
Maybe allowing 2hr boxes to be keyed open without releasing the effect until someone selected the contents similar to Gold key item boxes. This would work the very same way as the suggested pyxis labels in terms of communicating which box was the 2hr box. Since this is the only box that is player dependent in terms of who keys open the chest receives the reward all that would be needed is an added selection menu. No extra graphics needed. ^^

This would just about solve the issue for me forever and folks would be allowed to spam blue chest all day till the cows came home. I'm done. ^^

[Khajit]

-------------
OK, unless your "View created Threads" link is broken, here's some advice for you... SUGGEST something 1st before telling me what you think is a "stupid idea"! Try that if you in fact play and love this game as I do. Otherwise you're just troll camping these boards hoping to start random crap with people.

If you in fact read the post I just directed to you, you would see you're just trolling for no reason other than just to troll. You were wrong is what I just highlighted. It's like you skipped over everything and just decided to post your "misguided madness." Don't try and skim over the OP now, because it shows even more so that you're not reading anything I've said. You wouldn't get the lag that you get from avatars and crag areas. I posted that 2 times now.

I don't need your type of post at all since they have nothing constructive in the least. Thanks.

Why exactly does "Mr Budz" have to suggest any ideas? We have specially designated staff at SE whom are being paid by you(and the rest of us) to make up their OWN ideas. Why must he do someone else's job when he's specifically paying said people to do it instead?

[kingfury]

Why exactly does "Mr Budz" have to suggest any ideas? We have specially designated staff at SE whom are being paid by you(and the rest of us) to make up their OWN ideas. Why must he do someone else's job when he's specifically paying said people to do it instead?
----------
Nah, you gotta put it with the whole line,:

SUGGEST something 1st before telling me what you think is a "stupid idea"!

[Yugl]

----------
Nah, you gotta put it with the whole line,:

SUGGEST something 1st before telling me what you think is a "stupid idea"!

I suggest you stop making ideas and leave that to the experts.

[kingfury]

Terrible idea and a terribler sig. Spaghetti code, lag, and overall useless says no. And those lips. /shudder
--------
Awww, lots of folks love full, luscious, and thick lips! ^^ Anywho, since it's Sunday, it was time for a new image anyway.

[kingfury]

I suggest you stop making ideas and leave that to the experts.
--------
Or, you could leave a domain designated for "Suggestions to the those experts" if you don't understand where you are.

[Khajit]

----------
Nah, you gotta put it with the whole line,:

SUGGEST something 1st before telling me what you think is a "stupid idea"!

You just completely ignored what I asked and presented the same logical fallacy. Why do they have ANY obligation to makeup new ideas for your sake when they are paying se to do it for them?

[Kimble]

I don't have to come up with my own ideas to tell someone else their idea is terrible.

[Yugl]

--------
Or, you could leave a domain designated for "Suggestions to the those experts" if you don't understand where you are.

You're not making suggestions, you're trolling people by making bad ideas and advertising your own designs.

Edit: And experts didn't refer to SE. Experts referred to good players.

[TybudX]

Or, you could leave a domain designated for "Suggestions to the those experts" if you don't understand where you are.

Protip: You Are Not An Expert™.

No matter how much you /stagger and /slurp and /fondle Camate's balls every time you manage to beg for a developer to reply to your threads. This is general discussion, not a 'domain for experts', and Camate isn't a dev, he's a GM. YOU ARE NOT A DEV. Take your head out of your ass. Where do you get off? You make posts here as if you represent the player base despite almost every single poster in every thread you make basically telling you to fuck off. That's not a suggestion, it's a clue.

[kingfury]

You just completely ignored what I asked and presented the same logical fallacy. Why do they have ANY obligation to makeup new ideas for your sake when they are paying se to do it for them?
----------
Not for my sake at all. For his own sake. It's that same o'l "criticizing from bleachers" logic. Some guy says, "That guy sucks at basketball!" but would get his ass handed to him if he tried playing the game himself.

[kingfury]

I don't have to come up with my own ideas to tell someone else their idea is terrible.
-----------
It's good practice since you're posting on Suggestion topics. How many "good ideas" have you suggested? What constitutes a "good idea" in your opinion? I'm not afraid to suggest things I feel would be nice additions to the game. If you like making yourself feel big from shooting down others suggestions, at least have some of your own before you do.

[BorkBorkBork]

--------
Awww, lots of folks love full, luscious, and thick lips! ^^ Anywho, since it's Sunday, it was time for a new image anyway.

Lol some of your sigs are pretty nice but the mithra with the giant herpes outbreak on her lip was pretty scarey. Taru looks pretty nice though

[kingfury]

You're not making suggestions, you're trolling people by making bad ideas and advertising your own designs.

Edit: And experts didn't refer to SE. Experts referred to good players.
------------
No that's what you're doing. Hmm, so what part of playing your job well in-game spills over into Suggesting changes for the game? Have you ever seen me play FFXI? Sounds like trolling to me. And a bit of self esteem issues.

[kingfury]

Lol some of your sigs are pretty nice but the mithra with the giant herpes outbreak on her lip was pretty scarey. Taru looks pretty nice though
---------
lol nah that was a shine on her lip >< Rough sketches can be easily misinterpreted do to all the fast line strokes and unfinished nature of the art style. I'll think twice before putting sketch work in a sig next time.
Thanks in regards to the taru though /

[kingfury]

Protip: You Are Not An Expert™.

No matter how much you /stagger and /slurp and /fondle Camate's balls every time you manage to beg for a developer to reply to your threads. This is general discussion, not a 'domain for experts', and Camate isn't a dev, he's a GM. YOU ARE NOT A DEV. Take your head out of your ass. Where do you get off? You make posts here as if you represent the player base despite almost every single poster in every thread you make basically telling you to fuck off. That's not a suggestion, it's a clue.
----------
BAHHH you misread you stick! I wasn't saying that "I" was an expert. I was referring to SE. I was saying this is a place for Suggestions to reach the DEVS dude. wth. I can't say what I really want to say since the Mods will just erase it anyway. So easy are you and your pack of trolls to take a thought and run with it.

You REALLY need to take a break from posting man. I'm glad you've successfully broke down the board's staff structure for yourself. It was kinda spelled out with each response from them, but good job either way.

[kingfury]

And on that Note, I think this thread has run it's course. The OP has been updated with my final suggestion in regards to the 2hr boxes being able to be keyed by anyone and just remain open until a player selects it to receive it's contents like that of a Gold key item pyxis.

Too many trolls in one place for my taste. I'll lock this bad boy down now since going back and forth with these guys is as much fun as getting a RMT spam message. Thanks to everyone that gave their opinions on the suggestion. /

[Yugl]

------------
No that's what you're doing. Hmm, so what part of playing your job well in-game spills over into Suggesting changes for the game? Have you ever seen me play FFXI? Sounds like trolling to me. And a bit of self esteem issues.

When a post telling you you're misinforming SE (And receiving more Likes than your original post!) and receiving mass opposition, I think that's a sign that your idea is bad. Perpetuating your item regardless and not meeting criticism is trolling. Stop trolling our board KF.

[kingfury]

Trolls calling other people Trolls eh? Now that's something. End.