First of all, I wanted to thank everyone

[blowfin]

Greetings, everyone!
First of all, I wanted to thank everyone that has participated with discussing the claim system in this thread. Unfortunately, it seems that the conversation has gone quite off-topic, which is why this thread will now be closed. I understand how heated these discussions can be, but the main purpose of these forums is to discuss matters in relation to the subject of the thread. I understand how easy it can be for tempers, as well as the point of the thread, to be lost as the thread and the number of participants grows, and when things get out of hand, that is where moderators have to step in. I hope all of you continue to participate in thoughtful and civil discussions about the game, since it will benefit all of us as a community. Take care, and good luck!

So does this mean the Dev team plans to circumvent people who habitually try to gank mobs of people?

We would like an answer.

Thanks.

[Leonlionheart]

I don't understand the point of this.

[Zetonegi]

He's raging because the thread that was horribly derailed was locked and sees it as proof that the dev team supports stealing mobs. Contrary to popular belief, forum moderators are not members of the dev team and they don't speak for them.

[blowfin]

I don't understand the point of this.

I don't understand how the thread went off topic, then again, I didn't have the privilege of seeing the posts that got deleted.

Either way, I see the answer as being "NO, WE AREN'T PLANNING TO CHANGE THE WAY THE CLAIM SYSTEM WORKS, ***".

[blowfin]

He's raging because the thread that was horribly derailed was locked and sees it as proof that the dev team supports stealing mobs. Contrary to popular belief, forum moderators are not members of the dev team and they don't speak for them.

But i'm not raging. Just seems a bit silly. We should at least deserve an answer form the dev team, even if they don't want to touch the issue with a 10 foot pole.

[Runespider]

So does this mean the Dev team plans to circumvent people who habitually try to gank mobs of people?

People can only take a mob if you fail and should have the mob taken if that's the case.

What's wrong with that?

Now if there was a game mechanic where nothing you could do and from no fault of your own could lead to the mob being taken thats fair enough but the stuff you are on about is user fail. I've never had a mob stolen or taken from me ever, unless I died and at the point I lost the fight and the mob isn't mine anymore.

Considering apoc atma and infinite reraises it's nice to have a mob being able to be taken from you if you suck.

[Babekeke]

Considering apoc atma and infinite reraises it's nice to have a mob being able to be taken from you if you suck.

If they suck enough, they'll never win. At that point they'll be forced to give up or they'll time out, and that's when you get to claim it. Stealing while they zombie it and wait for 1 of their pt to run and get a brew is for losers. If it's a NM that you can't pop multiple mobs of, and so you're sat there waiting for them, send them a /tell and ask them if you can help them to kill it so that they can move on and you get to pop yours faster. Obviously it's their mob so they get the drops. Doing this then stealing their drops is also for losers.
If you steal mobs, or steal drops then take this: ---> L ... and wear it on your forehead for all to see.

[Runespider]

Doing this then stealing their drops is also for losers.

If someone messed about with a mob for upto an hour making me wait then tried to zombie it I'm taking it and killing it asap with no procs or anything just to destroy it infront of them.

I don't do it often cause I usually offer to help but sometimes it's nice to have the option if people deserve it. Thats the point of a community, be nice or be bad? If they sterilise the game too much they will remove any and all personality that made/makes it great.

[Rie]

I don't see anything wrong with the claim system in the first place. If it goes yellow, you probably screwed up somewhere.

[Korpg]

Apparently not.

BST is supposed to still lose claim during pet swaps.

[Hoshi]

I don't understand how the thread went off topic, then again, I didn't have the privilege of seeing the posts that got deleted.

Either way, I see the answer as being "NO, WE AREN'T PLANNING TO CHANGE THE WAY THE CLAIM SYSTEM WORKS, ***".

I saw most of the deleted posts... it was mostly Luch and Bigboy trading insults with Kya throwing in something unintelligible every so often. The course of discussion of the thread had migrated away from talking about the claim system to accusations on botting and terribad playing. Not sure how Chocobits's posts got deleted though, they weren't in violation of the forums I think.

[Psxpert2011]

SO COOL, MY FIRST MULTI-QUOTE POST ^_^:


I don't understand the point of this.

Me neither.


He's raging because the thread that was horribly derailed was locked and sees it as proof that the dev team supports stealing mobs. Contrary to popular belief, forum moderators are not members of the dev team and they don't speak for them.

True, when a thread derails onto more ludicrous topics that have nothing to do... well, smart posters have to post smart and try to comment towards the topic before it fuels fire to comedy feud.


If someone messed about with a mob for upto an hour making me wait then tried to zombie it I'm taking it and killing it asap with no procs or anything just to destroy it infront of them.

I don't do it often cause I usually offer to help but sometimes it's nice to have the option if people deserve it. Thats the point of a community, be nice or be bad? If they sterilise the game too much they will remove any and all personality that made/makes it great.

Hey, there you go! Strategy in claiming is what I call it. There's more than one way to win a battle and part of it is looking for it. I think the PVP aspect is shining through claiming competition these days and players/ adventurers need to be good at both winning and loosing.

[Alhanelem]

But i'm not raging. Just seems a bit silly. We should at least deserve an answer form the dev team, even if they don't want to touch the issue with a 10 foot pole.
And what will you do if you don't get the answer you're looking for?

The GMs have established time and time again that any mob that is yellow is legal for the taking. It's up to the players to sort out these differences. Now, I'm not saying that no adjustments could be made (e.g. to conditions under which mob turns yellow) but only that the rules address this type of situation.

Whoops, I probably just started it up again.

[Habiki]

I think the developers are on the side of not changing the claim system since they completly edited one of lutschs posts leaving only -

its not "stealing" when the mob is white. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

This is post #170 page 17, funny how they took everything out, but this one line at the end of his post when normally they would remove the whole thing.

[Kya]

i am happy that they did that cuz it was pointless Thread

[Leonlionheart]

I think the developers are on the side of not changing the claim system since they completly edited on of lutschs posts leaving only -

its not "stealing" when the mob is white. [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines.]

This is post #170 page 17, funny how they took everything out, but this one line at the end of his post when normally they would remove the whole thing.

I think SE gets that the people crying about this- the last standing checkpoint of some type of skill in this game- just suck and are noobs.

[Chikamatsu]

They don't need to 'fix' it, it's not an issue if you're smart about how you do things, eg. Don't cluster on a mob that does AoE Charm, unless you know how to prevent it from charming you. (And yes, there is a way on mobs such as Cirein-Croin, you've just gotta figure it out for yourselves.)

[Tensa]

Chika, people don't wanna figure it out. People want it handed to them in a note or in a gamer guide. No one wants to take the time and figure it out anymore. They don't wanna lose the xp it takes to figure out how to do things correctly because they NEVER get the chance to pt. If you never get the chance to xp on your job, then you should know how not to DIE on it. Watching people fight a mob might just give you a hint on how to fight it, and who knows...you may see it go white and well...you know what to do when that happens. :P

[Azucares]

I love seeing mobs go white with about 1% hp left on them because it's like opening a present at Christmas time. As a child it didn't matter if my behavior was good or bad I still got rewarded. In this case it's better than Christmas because I get to help punish people who can't maintain claim on the mobs they fight.

[Babekeke]

I love seeing mobs go white with about 1% hp left on them because it's like opening a present at Christmas time. As a child it didn't matter if my behavior was good or bad I still got rewarded. In this case it's better than Christmas because I get to help punish people who can't maintain claim on the mobs they fight.

Just goes to show that spoiling a child will leave them without morals, and likely without friends, when they're older.

[Korpg]

Just goes to show that spoiling a child will leave them without morals, and likely without friends, when they're older.

There are no such thing as moral values on the internet.

Take away the ability to punch somebody in the nose for being a jerk and everyone becomes a jerk.

[Alhanelem]

well the point he's getting at is the fighting group can prevent these kinds of problems.

[Babekeke]

well the point he's getting at is the fighting group can prevent these kinds of problems.

Correct. But it's a bit unfair IMO, to steal someone's mob when you don't even know the reasoning behind their fail:
Maybe the whm's kid just fell off a chair and they had to abandon the group for a minute to go and see to them.
Maybe it's a pickup group and they happen to have chosen the 1 useless tank, or mage on the server? Should the whole group suffer because of 1 person's failing?

I also suppose it's different if it's a mob that you pop with an item you can buy of ah that drops from the regular mobs around the area, or if it's a mob that you paid 120k for the pop item, or you had to get 3-4 KIs from other NMs to pop it.

The bottom line is, play nice and play fair. After all, it's just a game. Always try to come to an agreement verbally (eg. ask if you can join them and help them to kill it so that they stop holding you up), and only if they refuse should it be necessary to take matters into your* own hands.

* As in the community as a whole, not Alhanelem in particular, I just happened to quote him on this occasion.

[Alhanelem]

This is honestly more about those times when you lose claim while you're still fighting I think. There is a reason it happens- If the last person who touched the mob loses hate or dies, or when hate is generally low because the party is struggling to do anything but hasn't wiped yet. If a group is conciously aware of how claim works, they can prevent it from happening. The game does it this way because more often than not, when hate is lost the battle is lost- the group is either unable to keep the monster's attention or is dying.

I'm no advocate of camping a group that's fighting and trying to steal claim at any opportunity- but I think it's not reasonable to be super pissed when you've got a bunch of KO'd people, no one doing damage, you've basically lost and the monster is walking toward it's pop spot about to depop and it is taken at this point. If they didn't take it, then it would have disappeared and nobody would have gotten anything. (However, if I were to do this, I would probably invite people from the other group to lot the stuff they needed.)

[Lollerblades]

"If it aint broke, don't fix it" - Springs to mind here.

I think what it boils down to is basic Etiquette. Generally most people will offer to help if you're failing at a mob... And no contrary to what some people think it's not down to how you play- "Lag spike" ever heard of it ? That's happened to me a few times....

However sometimes you get the players who decide to Ninja your mob because they deem it's theirs... Sadly nothing can be done about those people, they're genetically built to be morons.

I don't see a problem with the claim system as a whole - It just boils down to whether you get a nice player with manners walk past when it unclaims and offers to help .. Or.. one of the genetic morons

[Frost]

The goal of my post (forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/8954-Claim-System-Call-for-Help-Code-Win) was achieved, assuming the Dev Team doesn't share the reading comprehension of the majority of people that posted in that thread... I would love a response from a Community Representative, but I don't think I will get one, considering the hostility and scorn I presented in the original post. To be honest, that kind of set the mood for the thread, and I got exactly what I deserved.

It just dwindled to advocating self-fornication, suggesting participants commit suicide, and a particularly amusing war of wits between Bigboy and some seemingly unarmed opponents.

My only suggestion to Square at this point would be, that when a thread is as "hot" as that one turned out to be, you might want to assign someone from your "A-team" to moderate it next time. The way that one was handled really highlights how immature your company is currently at handling public communications. The moderator that got assigned to the post seemed a little dim. Their "corrections" were extremely inconsistent, bordering on bias. They didn't do a complete cleanup; they removed posts but left the removed posts quoted in others' posts; and they left a post partially edited as stated earlier in this thread; Etc.

If a post turns "bad", you punish the ones being bad, not the creator of the thread by locking it; unless the original thread itself is offensive. Locking a thread as you did just sends a message to the people that dissagree with a post (or trolls) that if they "Junk up" a thread long enough, you guys will just close it.

I have nothing else to say other than thank you to everyone that participated, I had no idea how much that thread would affect the community. One can only hope that SE can see the 40+ "Likes" and hold to their word they will listen to the public voice. (Preferably the 40+ "Likes" and not the 5-8 extremely vocal people against it...)

[Alhanelem]

They read the forums- they don't just pick and choose who to respond to by how people are behaving in the thread. Don't think that having a perfect thread with angels floating in circles around it will get you a community team response. For the most part, they likely have certain topics that are in line with what's going on in dev team land, and that is probably where they direct the meat of their attention.

That said, this topic really wasn't that heated or bad and I don't think anyone was really out of line.

You don't need to govel, apologize, or thank anyone. Just come in and state your piece. Things work out much better that way.


(Preferably the 40+ "Likes" and not the 5-8 extremely vocal people against it...) Neither the likes, nor the vocal complaints are really a good measure of anything. Don't think just because a post got X number of likes that everyone likes the idea. By the same token, just because some people are vocal about their opinion, that doesn't automatically mean that the other person is wrong or had a bad idea.

[Babekeke]

For the most part, they likely have certain topics that are in line with what's going on in dev team land, and that is probably where they direct the meat of their attention.

This. They're currently redoing einherjar and salvage, so posting about your ideas of how you think they should work in 2011 is more likely to see a response than posting about something that they aren't looking into. Especially in the short-term. Maybe when they finish those updates they'll spend more time looking through to see what the next biggest gripes are and see if they can 'fix' them.

[Kya]

i go watch ppl fight there Nm and see them wipe then jack it so... idk how that unfair at all when i just watch them lose at the fight

[Babekeke]

i go watch ppl fight there Nm and see them wipe then a jack it so... idk how that unfair at all when i just watch them lose at the fight

I guess English is not your first language, so it's kind of hard to understand your exact meaning. If however you're saying that it's fair to steal someone's NM that they worked hard to get pop items for, then I believe you're wrong. They should have a chance to raise up and brew it or recover, in my opinion.
If that wasn't your intention then I apologise.

[Hoshi]

i go watch ppl fight there Nm and see them wipe then a jack it so... idk how that unfair at all when i just watch them lose at the fight

I'm more likely to believe you're the one wiping to the NM when you type that badly.

[Xophious]

Greetings everyone!

Thank you all for taking the time to post your concerns. Unfortunately we are unable to reply to specific questions or comment on threads requesting our answers. The thread will be closed since it has derailed a bit. However, there are multiple posts within the thread that help clarify about the claim of mobs. We appreciate your understanding. Take care!