Do Japanese have a problem with us?

[Zatias]

I use the auto-translate function politely. If a Japanese player asks me something (or any player for that matter), I am sure to respond in a nice manner. But the other way around? Maybe about 10% of them reply ; ; But as soon as I see another talk to them in Japanese, there's an instant reply... Is there a button that allows Japanese players to blacklist all English-speaking people? :confused:

I love that this is a game where people of different corners of the world can enjoy together, but why do a lot of the Japanese seem to have such a problem with us English-speakers?

Maybe this isn't appropriate, but it really bugs me sometimes. A lot of us are extending our hands out to be nice, and we mostly get ignored ; ; Sorry if this is inappropriate again; I know not all Japanese are like this, but the vast majority I run into are.

[Malamasala]

They just feel they are really bad at English, and it would be embarrassing to attempt to talk in that language. I've studied Japanese but I rarely attempt to speak to them since I feel like I'm not good enough to say what I mean. It doesn't help that they write their borrowed words as they sound, not how they are spelled. Like SuTa for Star, meaning they don't really get much help reading Star when they are used to read SuTa.

The auto-translator is also pretty stiff for asking typical endgame questions. Like "How many more NMs is your group planning to pop?" "Would it be ok if we took turns popping NMs?" and so on.

[Zatias]

That is true I guess. The auto-trans is pretty meh for stuff like that, which is why I use "@?" when asking how many NMs they have left to pop, and "Team Up?" if they have a lot remaining. Still scarce on the replies, however :( It's not THAT hard to type a number or reply with "No thanks."

But yes I agree, they do need to expand the auto-translate as of late, hell we don't even have "Abyssea" in auto-trans yet! XD

[Glamdring]

this isn't an excuse to bring back the PS2 complaint is it? Because even SE said the Auto-Translate could not be expanded due to PS2 limitations.

As to the other issues, possible JP players don't have an Arabic keyboard, too. (Yes, our Alphabet letters are called Arabic). I certainly don't have a Kanji one and I'm hoping to study Japanese when I have a little extra money for classes.

And the point about them being ashamed of their English proficiency, dead on. Shame is an extremely important matter to the japanese and their sense of honor. If we correct them or crack a joke at a mistake it's just playing to us, but to some of them it is a very serious issue. Maybe we both need some sensitivity training, us to curb insensitivity, them to not be so sensitive, I don't know. You're dealing with a cultural gap, American humor doesn't translate well to Japanese, and vice-versa. Our humor is seen as coarse and disrespectful, theirs as stilted and abstract. There are many other issues as well.

They do love american markets and american dollars though.

[Juilan]

i never have issues with JPs ... and i'm an english speaker person, although i do talk to them in japanese, just wish it was as easy to talk in japanese on this as it is in 14, but they also seem to like french.

@Glamdring not arabic, Phoenician at best, our words are greko-roman not arabic, our numbers are indian/arabic though (since they were exported by the rhagput)

also with the correction thing, none of my friends have seen an issue with it, they actually ask me to help them tune it... which is ironic since they know i understand their language too

[Myokoji]

Hmm, I sort of see what the OP is saying, and I agree that they may feel they're not able to respond in a useful way due to limitations.

Also some people misuse the auto-translate, for example using "All Right!" as a phrase for "Understood." Especially British people since we don't use that phrase much, except for saying "OK". In English 'all right' has a few meanings, in Japanese it just means great or woohoo or whatever. So I've seen some JPs get confused by it. And also [head] [north] is another...

Even those of us that can use Japanese, we cannot communicate because the client restricts us from typing Kanji >.<; Which I know will never get changed.

[SNK]

This might be a good read if you're curious as to how some JPs feel about things.

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=742

[Olor]

not on topic but we use a Latin script and Arabic numerals

[Greatguardian]

There are also just as many JP players who would say "LolNA, speak JP or gtfo" as there are NA players who would say "LolJP, speak American or gtfo". Real talk.

[Romanova]

OP is doing the right thing and some of that is as others said that they are simply embarrassed by their lack of English.

As GG also said there are jerks on both sides of the fence so take that for what you will.

They do greatly appreciate when you try and use some phrases in japanese because it shows you're making the effort. I actually transferred to ragnarok a while back, and I was shocked by the amount of JP that get excited when I use "yoroshiku" or "omedeto", and rarely see any other english-speakers use it. I guess hades got something right as that was pretty much standard there lol

just keep doing what you're doing and you'll see the nice JP outweigh the jerks.


[edit] also elmer made a list of some usefull phrases if people wanted to take a look:

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=733

[Gennadi]

I say we challenge the japanese players to a taco eating contest. First person that eats 20 pounds of tacos are declared the winner. Then they will be required to use the auto translate function from now on.

[Alhanelem]

It's not so much that they don't like you, but given it's only spoken in their country, the Japanese are quite protective of their language. If you can show them you can understand them (which is difficult without using 3rd party tools) they become a lot more open to you.

There are some who do not like foreigners, especially people who were playing the game before it was released in other regions (because Square Enix did not ever announce its intention to do so ahead of time.) But for the most part, it's because Japanese are a private people and they keep to themselves a bit more than we do.

[bungiefan]

As to the other issues, possible JP players don't have an Arabic keyboard, too. (Yes, our Alphabet letters are called Arabic). I certainly don't have a Kanji one and I'm hoping to study Japanese when I have a little extra money for classes

It's Roman letters, and standard Japanese keyboards are QWERTY with a few extra buttons, and extra paint on the keys to indicate Japanese input when using direct kana input. They normally use Roman letter input, which converts to kana on the fly as they type phonetically what they are saying.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/bungiefan/Japanese_Keyboard.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v338/bungiefan/Japanese_Keyboard.gif

This is a Japanese keyboard, standard with any computer there. They can easily type our letters. In fact, they must to type macros because they have to use the same /commands as we do. /tell /ls /ja /ws and the like.

Auto-translate indicates that you can't input Japanese, and thus they can't comunicate in detail for anything auto-translate can't handle. Thus they just ignore you if they feel their English isn't good enough, since you won't be able to respond in Japanese, and likely can't read it to understand more detailed questions. It was easier before they added the parentheses around the phrases to indicate you were using them.

[Avina]

It's not so much that they don't like you, but given it's only spoken in their country, the Japanese are quite protective of their language. If you can show them you can understand them (which is difficult without using 3rd party tools) they become a lot more open to you.

This is really what it gets down to.

It's sort of inherently awkward to talk to someone who doesn't speak the same language as you. Having lived there and speaking the language you find that they are kinda similar in real life as in the game... they sorta will brush past you and not reach out *unless* you reach out to them and speak Japanese. Then its like everything changes, then they want to sit down with you, and get to know you, because, as Alhanelem said, their language is very important to them and they are honored that you've taken the time to actually learn about them.

And yeah, they use standardized QWERTY keyboards, I believe most type things out in Romanji using the Microsoft IME.

[Alhanelem]

No, there are dedicated japanese keyboards- but they can still be made to type Roman characters.

[Starcade]

Yes, they do have a problem with us.

And they well should.

[Zatias]

I don't find it nice that it's expected of us to learn Japanese to be accepted by their community, as mentioned by a few posters, but there are a few really good points here.

I guess I just have to respect how they feel, but I will keep trying to communicate as best I can. I know there are a lot of nice JPs, and a lot more that attempt to speak English so we understand better. I did notice this "cold shoulder" thing got worse when the first huge server merge occurred, and a lot of them moved to different servers within the first week; maybe it's just Asura. Highly populated server = a higher chance to run into assholes. And no, the "auto-trans update" wasn't an excuse to bring up poor PS2 and its limitations XP So that's on whoever mentioned it :D

[Zatias]

Yes, they do have a problem with us.

And they well should.

Not even an explanation? Oh well, not like I ever cared, but you're not helping your case. Please seek mental help :(

[JiltedValkyrie]

Most Japanese keyboards are romanized. But I hear the ones that aren't are easier to type on if you can get used to it.

[Starcade]

I don't find it nice that it's expected of us to learn Japanese to be accepted by their community, as mentioned by a few posters, but there are a few really good points here.


I don't see it that way.

I think the Japanese are (and with cause!) greatly _insulted_ that they have to share the game with the "gaijin", whom I can be pretty clear that they do not respect -- at least in a game-cultural sense.

The barriers set up are just an excuse not to have to come out and clearly say it.

[Starcade]

Not even an explanation? Oh well, not like I ever cared, but you're not helping your case. Please seek mental help :(

I don't think I have to explain it -- and you wouldn't understand anyway.

[Greatguardian]

There's a JP windower. Avesta was JP and banned for teh hax. Yes, the JP really can never learn to respect the hopeless, cheating NA base.

[noodles355]

To be honest most japanese apperciate the effort if you try and talk to them in japanese. The reason they dont reply often is because as said above, they feel embarrassed they cant do the same.

But like every nation there are still assholes.


As to the other issues, possible JP players don't have an Arabic keyboard, too. (Yes, our Alphabet letters are called Arabic). I certainly don't have a Kanji one and I'm hoping to study Japanese when I have a little extra money for classes.Actually japanese keyboards also use the QWERTY layout of western keyboards. Also there are no kanji keys. You write kanji the exact same way as on a western keyboard with microsofts IME - type the hiragana and press spacebar to swap to kanji/katakana. The normal keys double up as hiragana keys so you can switch modes by pressing a button (so Q>た W>て E>い R>す T>か etc), but to be honest most of my friends just use it like a western keyboard's IME (type tsu and it comes up つ) anyway.

Edit: beaten by bungiefan

[noodles355]

I think the Japanese are greatly _insulted_ that they have to share the game with the "gaijin", whom I can be pretty clear that they do not respect As someone currently living in Japan I think that the Japanese are only greatly _insulted_ by idiots like you.

[Meyi]

Yes they have something against us.

A lot of the issues we have would be resolved if non-Japanese regions were allowed to properly type Japanese. :/

[noodles355]

Yes they have something against us.
No they really dont.

[Starcade]

There's a JP windower. Avesta was JP and banned for teh hax. Yes, the JP really can never learn to respect the hopeless, cheating NA base.

Well, what's going to happen to those people, though? Chances are, they have brought shame upon their houses.

That might not mean anything to you, but it's about the only thing keeping some order in Japan.

Naming shame is a lot over there.

[Starcade]

As someone currently living in Japan I think that the Japanese are only greatly _insulted_ by idiots like you.

I don't think so. Now do you just live in Japan or are you Japanese?

[kingfury]

This might be a good read if you're curious as to how some JPs feel about things.

http://www.jpbutton.com/?page_id=742
-----------------
Just to support SNK's link, this read was an eye opener for me. Just to elaborate on what SNK said, a guy named "Elmer the Pointy" conducted an experiment that involved NA players submitting a bunch of questions they would like answered by Japanese players. Of all the questions submitted on the Blue Gartr boards, 10 questions were chosen and translated for all Japanese players that wanted to take a stab at answering them.

I say eye opening for me because I've never had the opportunity to hear genuine Japanese opinions directly from the source in regards to how they feel about certain aspects of NA culture or what's important to them. It felt like I was watching a documentary, but you're reading it instead. You can almost picture the different types of people as you read through each comment (or maybe that's just me lol). It was very interesting to hear so many different responses from such a large range of different points of view.

Again, if you're truly concerned about this topic, take a moment and read through the questions and answers posted throughout the page. More specifically Zatias, one of the questions listed is in fact:

-"How do you feel about English-speaking players attempting to speak Japanese. (i.e. Using limited Japanese phrases, saying “w” etc.)

Here's the direct link to the question and answer page:

Talking Points – BlueGartr Forums (http://www.jpbutton.com/?p=551)
Also, in an effort to promote positive communication bridges, someone posted this great Japanese translation site inside another thread a while back that might help when trying to construct some useful NA -> JP dialog versus using the auto-translate function. Very easy to use, so check it out:

Nihongodict.com (http://www.nihongodict.com/)

[Octaviane]

This article was a great read. I always welcome an opportunity to learn and understand a culture so different from my own.

I have never had an issue with any Japanese player, only with NA players who seem to think it's ok and their God given right to curse out everyone and everything everytime they log on. First amendment given, a little civility would be a welcome thing. Unfortunately, those values are no longer a part of our society, just as please and thank you are disappearing from our language base. As a society we are required to live with it. Not all of us like it.

Everytime someone says "those JP" or "those damn JP" I cringe, and am quick with a response in /t to the offender because, in all likelihood, they have never stepped outside of their own county, much less country, or read enough literature/history to have even a basic knowledge or tolerance of others. The same applies in real life if I hear someone be derogatory.

Hate breeds more hate. That coupled with ignorance makes it 1000x worse. Result? War, Civil unrest, etc.

I find it interesting that Starcade, who, by the way, contributed to the link given here, makes statements like "the Japanese have issues with us" and then when asked refuses to respond because "you wouldn't understand." If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, this is the exact attitude that prevents wounds from healing. You are only hurting yourself in the long run by carrying this baggage around.

It's not always easy, but try to have a little respect/understanding for all.

[noodles355]

I don't think so. Now do you just live in Japan or are you Japanese?
I think so. Firstly your use of the word gaijin shows how ignorant you are. Why put quotation marks around it? Are you trying to suggest it's a bad word? Because it isn't. Foriegners aren't offended by the term, in fact we tend to use it to refer to other foriegners as well when speaking in japanese.

You are wrong that Japanese don't respect someone because they are a foriegner. They won't respect someone if they're an asshole, but is that not true of everyone? Japan is like every other country in that there will always be assholes. You can not base your views of a whole race off a few assholes. It would be like saying all americans are red neck idiots who thought the march earthquake and tsunami were revenge for pearl harbor.
If you act courtious towards them, then just like european or american players, they will be mostly courtious and respectful back to you.

If most japanese players you have met dont respect you, maybe its time you realised that the problem is not them, but its you and you should stop being such a clot.

[Alhanelem]

I don't see it that way.

I think the Japanese are (and with cause!) greatly _insulted_ that they have to share the game with the "gaijin", whom I can be pretty clear that they do not respect -- at least in a game-cultural sense.

The barriers set up are just an excuse not to have to come out and clearly say it.
I'm sorry, but japanese do not hate us as people in general THAT much. Maybe they're not fond of you, but radical generalizations do not make good logic.

[Nidhogg]

A lot of translations with the auto-translator don't translate properly, that said you could say something like {Read}{San'doria}(no space between the two words) and it'll roughly translate to Dynamis San'doria while if you translate to Dynamis - San'doria it gives a completely different message.

Pinecone Bomb is another thing that is mistranslated and is used as a gesture of thanks, helps running an end game shell where you have members from all over the world, and having a decent JP community at night who can explain some of the things about the auto translation and how its broken.

[rog]

I don't find it nice that it's expected of us to learn Japanese to be accepted by their community, as mentioned by a few posters, but there are a few really good points here.
But you expect them to learn english?

It is easy to say you do not mind playing with japanese players, because 99 times out of 100, they will be the ones speaking in a second language, not you. Have you ever tried communicating complex ideas in a language you do not understand well, using vocabulary you never would have learned in school? It is not easy, and it is not fun. You take for granted that most japanese can understand at least basic english, but just because they can understand it does not mean they want to put the effort into doing so while they are trying to relax and play a game.

I can understand some basic japanese myself, but you will not see me trying to play with the japanese, unless they are the ones speaking english. Want to know why? Because even if i can understand what they say (i cannot always), it is not enjoyable trying to decipher moon runes that are scrolling through my chat log while trying to fight some big bad nm. It is hard work, and not enjoyable.

[noodles355]

You realise most of those "moon runes" are just chit chat?

[Arlan]

But you expect them to learn english?

It is easy to say you do not mind playing with japanese players, because 99 times out of 100, they will be the ones speaking in a second language, not you. Have you ever tried communicating complex ideas in a language you do not understand well, using vocabulary you never would have learned in school? It is not easy, and it is not fun. You take for granted that most japanese can understand at least basic english, but just because they can understand it does not mean they want to put the effort into doing so while they are trying to relax and play a game.

I can understand some basic japanese myself, but you will not see me trying to play with the japanese, unless they are the ones speaking english. Want to know why? Because even if i can understand what they say (i cannot always), it is not enjoyable trying to decipher moon runes that are scrolling through my chat log while trying to fight some big bad nm. It is hard work, and not enjoyable.

I too understand basic japanese and I have to say you are right about this for a fact.
I can see how the OP might of had misunderstandings of communication errors but since you put it straight, I think this thread should be done now cause it is getting extremely boring for me and im surprised its not boring for people who still decide to continue posting here out of so many better threads to post in my opinion. lol

Then again, my opinion isn't everyone else's opinion either. so ya lol.
Are we done here yet?

[rog]

You realise most of those "moon runes" are just chit chat?
Obviously. And of course "most" implies that not all of them are.

[SheKicksHigh]

xenophobia is a large componant of japanese history and culture, deal with it
and most of NAs being morons on game doesnt help much either

[Greatguardian]

I have absolutely no issue partying with JPs if the opportunity presents itself. I put forth about as much Japanese (eg: practically none, simple 1-word interjections and statements at best) as I expect them to put forth in English. I rely very heavily on the auto-translator for complex ideas, but it's rare that I've come across something that I just couldn't say in some way or another (Out of the things I want to say, at least).

I don't discuss battle strategy, though, since I tend to figure that knowing what to do is common-bloody-sense so there's no point in learning how to say "RDM, sleep that link". Why the heck wouldn't the Rdm sleep the link? I can see how a party full of English-only banter would get annoying, though. Even if the important notes are all made in auto-trans, constant chatter can be confusing.

[Starcade]

Hate breeds more hate. That coupled with ignorance makes it 1000x worse. Result? War, Civil unrest, etc.

I find it interesting that Starcade, who, by the way, contributed to the link given here, makes statements like "the Japanese have issues with us" and then when asked refuses to respond because "you wouldn't understand." If you are referring to what I think you are referring to, this is the exact attitude that prevents wounds from healing. You are only hurting yourself in the long run by carrying this baggage around.


That would be valid if the parties involved deserved such respect.

There's two factors involved, and at least one of them is conduct which is probably greatly excused by the poster I slammed in say that he wouldn't understand (and that there was no point explaining it to him).

1) is a feature of Japanese culture in which outsiders ("gaijin") are scorned. The Japanese honor social order on a very very high scale -- this is why many people are becoming shockingly disturbed at the Japanese's handling of the Fukushima disaster.

2) is the rampant (and, especially, unchecked) cheating which goes on at the US level. As I inferred earlier, "naming shame" -- bringing shame upon the _family_ of someone who has done something wrong in Japan -- has become a very real enforcement of social order. Bringing shame on your family is almost a lethal offense in Japan.

I have absolutely no problem with the Japanese wanting nothing to do with the US playerbase. I think they use the language barrier as a defense mechanism. The barrier is, and, IMHO should be, intentional.

[Starcade]

xenophobia is a large componant of japanese history and culture, deal with it
and most of NAs being morons on game doesnt help much either

A bit less elegant way of putting it, but, there you go....

[Greatguardian]

Holy crap, you know absolutely nothing about contemporary world cultures. Way to go.

[rog]

That would be valid if the parties involved deserved such respect.

There's two factors involved, and at least one of them is conduct which is probably greatly excused by the poster I slammed in say that he wouldn't understand (and that there was no point explaining it to him).

1) is a feature of Japanese culture in which outsiders ("gaijin") are scorned. The Japanese honor social order on a very very high scale -- this is why many people are becoming shockingly disturbed at the Japanese's handling of the Fukushima disaster.

2) is the rampant (and, especially, unchecked) cheating which goes on at the US level. As I inferred earlier, "naming shame" -- bringing shame upon the _family_ of someone who has done something wrong in Japan -- has become a very real enforcement of social order. Bringing shame on your family is almost a lethal offense in Japan.

I have absolutely no problem with the Japanese wanting nothing to do with the US playerbase. I think they use the language barrier as a defense mechanism. The barrier is, and, IMHO should be, intentional.Fyi, japan is pretty similar to the US in 2011. To an extent, what you said is true, but as the years go by, it is becoming less and less true.

edit: late, but to clarify, that is a very small extent. Japan has changed a lot in the last decades.

[Alhanelem]

Stop feeding the Starc- err, i mean, troll.

[Zatias]

lol @ Starcade. That is all.

[Zatias]

But you expect them to learn english?

It is easy to say you do not mind playing with japanese players, because 99 times out of 100, they will be the ones speaking in a second language, not you. Have you ever tried communicating complex ideas in a language you do not understand well, using vocabulary you never would have learned in school? It is not easy, and it is not fun. You take for granted that most japanese can understand at least basic english, but just because they can understand it does not mean they want to put the effort into doing so while they are trying to relax and play a game.

I can understand some basic japanese myself, but you will not see me trying to play with the japanese, unless they are the ones speaking english. Want to know why? Because even if i can understand what they say (i cannot always), it is not enjoyable trying to decipher moon runes that are scrolling through my chat log while trying to fight some big bad nm. It is hard work, and not enjoyable.

I never said I expected them to learn English, I merely said I don't like that we have to speak their language to be accepted XD at least by some Japanese. Please don't put words in my mouth :P

Edit: Also would like to point out some of my original post was thrown in there as a joke (such as "do they have a button that allows them to blacklist all English?") so don't think I am sitting here bashing Japanese when I'm not XD it's rude to ignore people in general, and that's what the main topic was.

[noodles355]

1) is a feature of Japanese culture in which outsiders ("gaijin") are scorned.Just no. Stop posting.

[kingfury]

Just stumbled upon Googles Translate tool o.o Very cool, and from what it looks like very powerful in that you can plug in a full phrase or a sentence and also hear what it would sound like translated. Can anyone that speaks Japanese please confirm if this tool is accurate enough to hold conversations or not? I've updated the choppy translations I've found using the other translation site "Nihongodict.com" since I've found this one, and would like to know if it's legit. Thanks.

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/)
For example:
Plugging in "Can we take turns?" yields "Wareware ga kōtai suru koto wa dekimasu ka?" Is this correct?

[HFX7686]

That would be valid if the parties involved deserved such respect.

There's two factors involved, and at least one of them is conduct which is probably greatly excused by the poster I slammed in say that he wouldn't understand (and that there was no point explaining it to him).

1) is a feature of Japanese culture in which outsiders ("gaijin") are scorned. The Japanese honor social order on a very very high scale -- this is why many people are becoming shockingly disturbed at the Japanese's handling of the Fukushima disaster.

2) is the rampant (and, especially, unchecked) cheating which goes on at the US level. As I inferred earlier, "naming shame" -- bringing shame upon the _family_ of someone who has done something wrong in Japan -- has become a very real enforcement of social order. Bringing shame on your family is almost a lethal offense in Japan.

I have absolutely no problem with the Japanese wanting nothing to do with the US playerbase. I think they use the language barrier as a defense mechanism. The barrier is, and, IMHO should be, intentional.

I've been to Japan, as well as lived in various other parts of Asia. I never felt Japan was anything like what you are describing here. A lot of them were very friendly and welcoming to me and my American husband. Some of them were rude (not many, probably on the same ratio of rude North Americans). They're very modern and pretty Westernized. I think you have been watching far too much old anime.

[HFX7686]

Just stumbled upon Googles Translate tool o.o Very cool, and from what it looks like very powerful in that you can plug in a full phrase or sentence and also hear what it would sound like translated. Can anyone that speaks Japanese please confirm if this tool is accurate enough to hold conversations or not? I've updated the choppy translations I've found using the other translation site "Nihongodict.com" since I've found this one, and would like to know if it's legit. Thanks.

Google Translate (http://translate.google.com/)
For example:
Plugging in "Can we take turns?" yields "Wareware ga kōtai suru koto wa dekimasu ka?" Is this correct?

You can use Google translate to translate web pages as well. It works with the Japanese parts of this forum.

[kingfury]

You can use Google translate to translate web pages as well. It works with the Japanese parts of this forum.
---------
Wow, very cool ^^ I'll have to try that :) Thanks
or
Uwa ̄ , hijō ni kūru! Watashi wa tameshite mite yo. Arigatō :D

/Kingfury prays this is the real thing lol ><;

[rog]

Not really. It can usually give you a rough idea of what someone says, but you definitely do not want to use it to speak to someone.

[HFX7686]

Not really. It can usually give you a rough idea of what someone says, but you definitely do not want to use it to speak to someone.

Yes, as Rog says, you can read but I wouldn't try replying.

[kingfury]

Not really. It can usually give you a rough idea of what someone says, but you definitely do not want to use it to speak to someone.
-------------
Aww man :( Understood, but what of the example in my above post? How accurate was that translation? The one about taking turns.

[rog]

-------------
Aww man :( Understood, but what of the example in my above post? How accurate was that translation? The one about taking turns.
Not very, to my knowledge.

[kingfury]

Not very, to my knowledge.
----------
Could you provide the proper translation, or another source similar to Google Translate? ^^

[rog]

Uh, maybe 順番ですよ ? That should get the idea across, but there is probably a better way to say it. I am not very good with japanese.

[kingfury]

Uh, maybe 順番ですよ ? That should get the idea across, but there is probably a better way to say it. I am not very good with japanese.
--------
/stagger ^^; Well I don't have a kenji Keyboard so I would need the translation in phonetic terms. :)

[kingfury]

Uh, maybe 順番ですよ ? That should get the idea across, but there is probably a better way to say it. I am not very good with japanese.
----------------
pluging 順番ですよ ? into Google translate yields, "It is the order?" o.^

[Romanova]

-------------
Aww man :( Understood, but what of the example in my above post? How accurate was that translation? The one about taking turns.


Sorry for mostly romanji, but I don't have japanese text on this comp atm (rebuilt awhile back got lazy getting reinstalling some stuff).

The correct phrase for taking turns is kōtai de suru or: 交代でする

So if you want to be polite you can say something like,

Sumimasen, NM [or ??? or w/e you want for taking turns, for the most part they know what NM means, and if they don't they can easily tell by the rest of the sentence] ga koutai de surimasuka?

Or more proper: Sumimasen, watashitachi wa NM o koutai de surimasuka?

Though you can probably drop the implied "we" (watashitachi) bit as that feels a little "booky".


[edit] just for future reference if you see the lines across a vowel that just means an extension of that vowel sound (as in the "o" in "kōtai") if you can't type that however you can ad a "u" after the vowel to meant the same thing. so koutai = kōtai

[Meyi]

On Bismarck we say, "tsugi" for "next". It gets the point across just fine.

"tsugi mo ii desu ka." "Is the next one okay?"

Edit: I am aware that 'tsugi' is in its improper form. It would probably be more proper to say 'tsuide'. But, I'm not professional, nowhere near, so please forgive me. They forgive me in game... if they take the time to read the romaji I've given them. ;)

[kingfury]

The correct phrase for taking turns is kōtai de suru or: 交代でする
-----------
Translates to "Rotate" right?


So if you want to be polite you can say something like,

Sumimasen, NM [or ??? or w/e you want for taking turns, for the most part they know what NM means, and if they don't they can easily tell by the rest of the sentence] ga koutai de surimasuka?

Or more proper: Sumimasen, watashitachi wa NM o koutai de surimasuka?

Though you can probably drop the implied "we" (watashitachi) bit as that feels a little "booky".

[edit] just for future reference if you see the lines across a vowel that just means an extension of that vowel sound (as in the "o" in "kōtai") if you can't type that however you can ad a "u" after the vowel to meant the same thing. so koutai = kōtai
----------------------
Awesome! ^^ Thanks /salute

And it's hilarious that you mentioned the Macron symbol as I was searching all over the place as how to put this into FFXI using a console USB keyboard lol. Very cool to know :)

Now the biggest question after your proper example would be, would Japanese players understand--:

Can we take turns? --> Wareware ga kōtai suru koto wa dekimasu ka?
--enough to catch my drift? Or would they be like, ‹huh?!› and /ignorpet me and keep on doing whatever they were doing? lol

[Meyi]

Now the biggest question after your proper example would be, would Japanese players understand--:

Can we take turns? --> Wareware ga kōtai suru koto wa dekimasu ka?
--enough to catch my drift? Or would they be like, ‹huh?!› and /ignorpet me and keep on doing whatever they were doing? lol

They would understand that. Well, if they can/want to read that much romaji. Sometimes they ignore romaji as it can easily be mistakened for English/French/German/Spanish/etc. Another reason why the language barrier is so frustrating.

(I don't think I'll ever let that go. MMOs are about interacting with other players, and we can't do that if we cannot speak properly to each other. I love playing on a multinational server because I'm exposed to so many different cultures and thought processes, but I hate not being able to at least attempt communication.)

[kingfury]

They would understand that. Well, if they can/want to read that much romaji. Sometimes they ignore romaji as it can easily be mistakened for English/French/German/Spanish/etc. Another reason why the language barrier is so frustrating.

(I don't think I'll ever let that go. MMOs are about interacting with other players, and we can't do that if we cannot speak properly to each other. I love playing on a multinational server because I'm exposed to so many different cultures and thought processes, but I hate not being able to at least attempt communication.)
------------
Cool, thanks! ^^ At the very least, if I can loosely convey what I'm trying to say in a semi-proper way (though I'd be stuck like Chuck trying to understand any responses since I'm stuck on a Console atm ><; ), I will feel much better when attempting to communicate with Japanese players.

In any case I'm glad at least to have found Google Translate for the time being. It's really satisfying to actually "hear" the dialog that's being translated as well as get the Japanese characters when translating. Here's to hoping for such technology being placed inside FFXI one day eh.

[Romanova]

Now the biggest question after your proper example would be, would Japanese players understand--:

Can we take turns? --> Wareware ga kōtai suru koto wa dekimasu ka?
--enough to catch my drift? Or would they be like, ‹huh?!› and /ignorpet me and keep on doing whatever they were doing? lol


they'd understand it, but even in my version as I said it's ok to put in implications. Japanese is the same as any other language in that there is slang, and a million different ways to say the same thing.

However, as meyi said, I would strongly recommend keeping it as simple as possible because you are using romanji. Think of how slow you maybe to read something written in kanji or hiragana, then remember they are essentially doing the same thing.

However, I do recommend throwing sumimasen at the beginning when you ask something like this. It means "excuse me", in the sense of how you would tap someone on the shoulder and say, "excuse me, is this your wallet?"

It's usually polite to use it when you come out to ask a question without you guys already being in the middle of a conversation. So if it's something where you happen upon a group and want to take turns, it's definitely a nice touch.

[rog]

In any case I'm glad at least to have found Google Translate for the time being. It's really satisfying to actually "hear" the dialog that's being translated as well as get the Japanese characters when translating. Here's to hoping for such technology being placed inside FFXI one day eh.
If you are willing to, there have been tools over on windower's website that do just that for years.

[Miera]

Do you feel uncomfortable when you are surrounded by people you have a very hard time understanding? I am sure many Japanese players feel that same way. Back when I used to play a different MMO the Japanese always stuck on a different Universe/Server to avoid those hard Language Barriers and those who understood it came to ours and played with the North Americans.

Don't assume, try and find different Understandings, thoughts like that is why many people have conflict with each other. Never look for a black and white, look for Gray areas too. lol.

[Meyi]

However, I do recommend throwing sumimasen at the beginning when you ask something like this. It means "excuse me", in the sense of how you would tap someone on the shoulder and say, "excuse me, is this your wallet?"

It's usually polite to use it when you come out to ask a question without you guys already being in the middle of a conversation. So if it's something where you happen upon a group and want to take turns, it's definitely a nice touch.

I agree, but perhaps instead of typing 'sumimasen', one could use the auto-translate of {Excuse me.} At least then it will write it in hiragana for them, making it a bit easier. Although, using auto-translator might be a big flag to ignore. I'm not sure which is best. But, best of luck with communications all the same.

[Chiibi]

As someone currently living in Japan I think that the Japanese are only greatly _insulted_ by idiots like you.

This, but also its because if you're Japanese and speak english well, we're expected to be personal translators. so generally we dont bother.

[Romanova]

I agree, but perhaps instead of typing 'sumimasen', one could use the auto-translate of {Excuse me.} At least then it will write it in hiragana for them, making it a bit easier. Although, using auto-translator might be a big flag to ignore. I'm not sure which is best. But, best of luck with communications all the same.

ya, again the idea behind it is to avoid the translator as much as possible but at the same time keeping things simple. I guess it could depend on the server.

As I said back when I was on hades it seemed a good majority of the playerbase knew to use certain words like sumimasen, omedetou, yoroshiku, etc. So I'd imagine them seeing it over and over again in romanji, probably made it easy words for them to read.

But ya they seem to love it when you make the effort instead of just falling back on the translate function, even if it ends up being "baby japanese"

[JiltedValkyrie]

Do you feel uncomfortable when you are surrounded by people you have a very hard time understanding? I am sure many Japanese players feel that same way. Back when I used to play a different MMO the Japanese always stuck on a different Universe/Server to avoid those hard Language Barriers and those who understood it came to ours and played with the North Americans.

Don't assume, try and find different Understandings, thoughts like that is why many people have conflict with each other. Never look for a black and white, look for Gray areas too. lol.

Phantasy Star Universe on Xbox 360? Most of them just play on the first server for years now.

[Starcade]

Just no. Stop posting.

Stop lying. Really... stop -- lying.

A large feature of Japanese culture is the fact that they openly scorn outsiders/"gaijin". That's why it usually takes double the effort to get half the respect from the Japanese as a "gaijin". You really need to look at the concept of social order in your country and how it relates to their view of outsiders.

JP ONRY is not just a hacked Engrish.

[Sama]

Yes, go to Asura server at NA night time stay in port jeuno you will know why.

All those garbage shouts, bullying, lol'ing, whenever someone shout for event there always another guy shout back say he suck.

[bungiefan]

--------
/stagger ^^; Well I don't have a kenji Keyboard so I would need the translation in phonetic terms. :)

There is no such thing as a kanji keyboard. You type in the Roman letters for the hiragana or katakana and then convert them to kanji by pronunciation. Typing in nihongo gets you にほんご and then pressing spacebar converts it to 日本語. Pressing spacebar again gives you more choices of how to convert those kana to kanji. That's what the IME is for.

[illusionist]

Excuse me about odd Japanese drop a line(s).
at first,my complain ecpecially in abyssea
Sometime,even my English skill,I'm the only person who use(or want to use)English in my PT.

Someone said "personal translator",actually I sometime felt like that.Even my PT is fighting,some people send me lots of tell and I hardly see fight log.and,"Your personal translator"is speaking Japanese for PT member.2 language and fight,at once.

I mean,It might not be only language matter.I have and had(retired) good friends both Japanese speaking,English speaking.
I'm so lucky I can speak twice of people,and I know both side has mean people.(maybe me too?)

Some new player talks to me ,sometime in Roanji,I'm glad to tell them what means.
Also,it's a old story,before zilart and NA version,some of my friends,who doesn't speak English,was looking forward to see new player.Nation was not a problem,at first.

I understand when English speaker talked to me in roimanji,unless it's hard to understand..(Good Morning=Ohio is my favorite spelling mistale by my friend)
Sometimes,ans in fact,I feel unfonfortable amang Japanese who wants to stay away "gaijin"(sorry)
On the other hand,too long English tell while we're fighting is beyond my capasity.

I appreciate for this thread to try to understand japanese or telling mean words :)
I cannot find the answer yet,but it's not only the language.

P.S please don't call me "JP ONRY"when you find lots of spelling mistake,,,

------------
Thanks for compliments,but my friends say "I don't understand what you say,but I understand what you mean".like that?

[Meyi]

+1 to Illusionist for trying. :D That's very sweet of you, we appreciate it, thank you.

I don't think anyone of this thread would ever expect the Japanese to speak English to us. That's not where the frustration lies. The frustration lies in being ignored when we use auto-translator. It's kind of strange since the auto-translator at least appears in proper Japanese yet it is ignored as much as romaji.

I wish we could at least spread some form of common manners among all players regardless of their language. I hate it when English people ignore me too. Even a simple {I'm sorry.} would suffice. Something to prove that whatever it is I just said was at least read and validated as being worthy enough to get a response.

On the other side of the coin, Illusionist, I generally dislike playing with English speakers who say "English only" as well. It shows a lack of consideration.

I'll never forget the party I had in moon as bard. It was really early in the morning, about 7 AM here (so Japanese midnight) and I got invited to a Japanese party. I didn't mind since I could understand enough hiragana and katakana to get a basic gist of what was going on. But when I was invited, there was a bit of a chat going on between two of the members. The leader was asking if we should invite a "gaijin" whitemage, to which the other party member began to laugh and respond with, "no, 'gaijin' are idiots. They're terrible." Naturally I informed them then that I was a 'gaijin' and wouldn't be afraid to leave due to being 'inferior'. Quickly they began to apologize as they didn't want to lose a bard. -smirk-

I think instances like that have permanently tainted my view of the Japanese player base. I'm still sore about being ignored because I cannot speak back. I am angry that it is technically against the rules for me to speak with that part of the player base. But, I have made lots of Japanese friends that I will never forget. And I know that not all Japanese people hate us. :) I'm always willing to accept everyone and give them a try.

[rog]

Excuse me about odd Japanese drop a line(s).
at first,my complain ecpecially in abyssea
Sometime,even my English skill,I'm the only person who use(or want to use)English in my PT.

Someone said "personal translator",actually I sometime felt like that.Even my PT is fighting,some people send me lots of tell and I hardly see fight log.and,"Your personal translator"is speaking Japanese for PT member.2 language and fight,at once.

I mean,It might not be only language matter.I have and had(retired) good friends both Japanese speaking,English speaking.
I'm so lucky I can speak twice of people,and I know both side has mean people.(maybe me too?)

Some new player talks to me ,sometime in Roanji,I'm glad to tell them what means.
Also,it's a old story,before zilart and NA version,some of my friends,who doesn't speak English,was looking forward to see new player.Nation was not a problem,at first.

I understand when English speaker talked to me in roimanji,unless it's hard to understand..(Good Morning=Ohio is my favorite spelling mistale by my friend)
Sometimes,ans in fact,I feel unfonfortable amang Japanese who wants to stay away "gaijin"(sorry)
On the other hand,too long English tell while we're fighting is beyond my capasity.

I appreciate for this thread to try to understand japanese or telling mean words :)
I cannot find the answer yet,but it's not only the language.

P.S please don't call me "JP ONRY"when you find lots of spelling mistake,,,
Thanks for reposting this. Even if it is difficult to understand at times, and is filled with numerous mistakes, you still got your point across just fine, and i am sure all of us appreciate the effort you took to type it out (twice in fact). It is interesting to hear from japanese players about this.

It seems that we are really not much different. When i first saw your original post here, i was glad to hear from you. And when you deleted it, i as quite upset. Admittedly, it was quite rambly, and did not really get much of a point across. But it was the effort that counted. I was just glad that you even tried, especially since your english is not very good, and it probably took a lot of time and effort to type out. It was difficult to read at times, but it still meant a lot that you at least tried. And the Japanese players are really the same way. Unfortunately a fair amount of Japanese players do ignore NA players using the auto translator, because they do not wish to deal with someone who does not speak their language (fair enough, it is quite a bit of effort speaking two different languages at once, and needing to repeat everything said in two languages), but will gladly respond to anyone who responds in even the most broken japanese. Much like us, the japanese players appreciate the effort to at least try to speak in japanese.

illusionistさんありがとうございました

[Babekeke]

Even if it is difficult to understand at times, and is filled with numerous mistakes...

...Admittedly, it was quite rambly, and did not really get much of a point across. But it was the effort that counted. I was just glad that you even tried, especially since your english is not very good, and it probably took a lot of time and effort to type out. It was difficult to read at times, but it still meant a lot that you at least tried.

I found the above post easier to understand than some Americans and Brits I've met, for whom English was their first language.

Illusionist's English is 10000 times better than my Japanese, and though I'm sure you didn't mean to, Rog, some of what you typed there might have come across as quite nasty.

I appreciate that when shouting for an event, JP players may not wish to have english people along so they would have to type instructions in 2 different languages, even if they speak perfect English (I'm part of a JP LS and have done events with them. There's only 6 of us in the LS and only 1 person speaks English very well, so I've done many events with him translating to me). I do, however, think that if I managed to use the auto-translate to ask them if I can join, I'm not asking a lot for a reply. Even if it's simply {I'm Sorry}.

Edit: And I get annoyed by anyone that uses auto-translate phonetically... {May}{Bee} is obviously not going to translate into "Maybe" FFS >.> use common sense please?

[Aliekber]

Stop lying. Really... stop -- lying.

A large feature of Japanese culture is the fact that they openly scorn outsiders/"gaijin". That's why it usually takes double the effort to get half the respect from the Japanese as a "gaijin". You really need to look at the concept of social order in your country and how it relates to their view of outsiders.

JP ONRY is not just a hacked Engrish.

No, you really don't know what you're talking about.

I had typed more, but I'm responding to Starcade here, not like it's going to do a hill of beans worth of good.

P.S. Get help. Seriously.

[BurnNotice]

I have a lot of Japanese friends that I've known for years. Out of a linkshell of 30 ppl, only 4 knew English. I got back a lot of feedback on why most JP players wont "Party", notice the quotation, with most players from different backgrounds. First, it is hard for them to figure out what we are talking about as it is for us. I mean how many of us understand the scribble scrabble in party chats? Secondly, the communication using auto-translate is too frustrating and complex, so to invest time in trying to figure out what others want from you or from them is a pain. Lastly, all that is stated is limited to only party chats. You wont get these kind of responses (at least, not often) from other events.

The Development Team could have implemented a program allowing auto-translation to appear in the language of the player's region or software. I know this almost an impossible due to them having to rewrite somethings, plus cost, and downtime to get this going, and ultimately, the game has come too far to have this kind of development to be implemented.

[Daniel]

personally I think you people give too little credit auto-translate, it is very easy system to use. This is especially true in Abyssia, don't need a detailed description for most fights. If you want to know how many more times they are fighting an NM, saying "last boss"? will usually get you a number. If you want to team up saying "<job>" "paper" "can I have it" "you can have this" "your job ext" is a pretty clear indication. Takes less time to auto translate that than it does typing a similar message in English. Of course some JP players will ignore you anyway, but you can't honestly tell me that you've never been ignored by an NA player.

[Psxpert2011]

I use the auto-translate function politely. If a Japanese player asks me something (or any player for that matter), I am sure to respond in a nice manner. But the other way around? Maybe about 10% of them reply ; ; But as soon as I see another talk to them in Japanese, there's an instant reply... Is there a button that allows Japanese players to blacklist all English-speaking people? :confused:

I love that this is a game where people of different corners of the world can enjoy together, but why do a lot of the Japanese seem to have such a problem with us English-speakers?

Maybe this isn't appropriate, but it really bugs me sometimes. A lot of us are extending our hands out to be nice, and we mostly get ignored ; ; Sorry if this is inappropriate again; I know not all Japanese are like this, but the vast majority I run into are.


Whet ever babe, they have the right whether to ignore "us" or anyone for that matter. I really don't know who is who and what they speak. Most the time the language preference isn't there. If anyone is to blame for being "rude" or to shun the english speakers is the english speaker. I'm sure some Japanese are very nice people and just have a "bad connection".

Hell, I would have a problem with most of the arrogance, impoliteness and blunt personalities (I've personally witnessed-probably washed over from WoW) in FFXI from the first years.
Some people could be so insulting and embarrassing to be around with because of the bad things put into type. As a new comer of the game, I didn't know it all and yet other player who don't know you treat you like crap.

Just being different doesn't make you a "bad" player. For me, I just respect everybody's privacy and space. So what if I get ignored, I don't get offended about anything now these days. Go play in peace and happiness. Try to be understanding and tolerant and maybe ask your friends about people they know (maybe some Japanese friends).

[Damage]

I have no problem grouping with anyone from any country. I always use auto-translate whenever I can, use simple words if not etc. NB: I am ENGLISH (as in, I live in England) and not American thank-you! :P

The problem is NOT other people's inability to speak English........it's our own and I don't blame people half the time that are pissed of at us. 90% + of us "English" speaking folk DON'T SPEAK STANDARD ENGLISH in game. (Around 25% of us don't even come close! :P)

If I were from another country and I'd taken the time to learn another language only to find people don't want to speak using that tongue, instead they'll use some shorthand that foreigners can't understand and make it feel like we don't want to speak to anyone that isn't able to decipher all our lazy shorthand and 1337 speak, I'd consider turning my nose up too. :\

[Fyreus]

I use the auto-translate function politely. If a Japanese player asks me something (or any player for that matter), I am sure to respond in a nice manner. But the other way around? Maybe about 10% of them reply ; ; But as soon as I see another talk to them in Japanese, there's an instant reply... Is there a button that allows Japanese players to blacklist all English-speaking people? :confused:

I love that this is a game where people of different corners of the world can enjoy together, but why do a lot of the Japanese seem to have such a problem with us English-speakers?

Maybe this isn't appropriate, but it really bugs me sometimes. A lot of us are extending our hands out to be nice, and we mostly get ignored ; ; Sorry if this is inappropriate again; I know not all Japanese are like this, but the vast majority I run into are.

You gotta understand that not everyone with a japanese client is japanese. There are players from many other nations that also use the client especially early players even in the U.S. From my experience with some jp client users there seems to be some really nasty smns in sylph woe who will bit and scratch and do all sorts of mpk in there but people with jp names avoid them and don't associate with them at all.

[noodles355]

Stop lying. Really... stop -- lying.

A large feature of Japanese culture is the fact that they openly scorn outsiders/"gaijin". That's why it usually takes double the effort to get half the respect from the Japanese as a "gaijin". You really need to look at the concept of social order in your country and how it relates to their view of outsiders.This is just not remotely true. You appear to have absolutely no experiance in this area whatsoever.
I suspect you still think japanese women all wear yukatas and kimonos and guys all carry around samurai swords?

It actually amazes me how you can still spout this absolute crap without any personal experiance with real japanese people outside of FFXI. In my whole time in Japan I have never once recieved a negative gainjin based or otherwise racial comment. On the other hand I get かっこいい kakkoii or イケメン ikemen comments all the time. I have worked in some small almost host-like bars, and had both men and women who can hardly speak any english or sometimes none at all want to talk to me. If I go to a bar for a beer, someone will almost always come over or call me over and want to have a conversation or a drink.

You are an idiot. うるさい。

Also for kinggalka and anyone else who's interested in some basic japanese, surprisingly, about.com is pretty decent for the basic stuff. It's definitely not 100% accurate but it will give you some general starting points.

[Zatias]

Yes, go to Asura server at NA night time stay in port jeuno you will know why.

All those garbage shouts, bullying, lol'ing, whenever someone shout for event there always another guy shout back say he suck.

Yeah I am on Asura server (I avoid Port Jeuno at all costs nowadays), and rather dislike the rudeness I see from English shouting to JP people. I can see why they ignore most English speakers, but as said multiple times in this thread, there are bad people on all sides. I just don't appreciate being ignored (by anyone) when I am being polite to them, and as I also said earlier I guess I will just keep trying. Came to a few nice compromises with other Japanese players while KI farm for Briareus, where we all took turns popping for our KI until we all got it, rather than fight for the next ??? pop.

On the other hand, most of the English people I tried to ask to share told me to "stop whining" and "stop being selfish", both of which I still fail to understand.

Indeed it's not the language I am seeing is the main problem, it's the people.

I will not close this thread even though I have come to that conclusion, I will leave it open for discussion and as a resource for people seeking the Japanese phrases site.

@illusionist
Thank you for replying and I really really really appreciate the effort you put forth! By the way your English is better than a lot of people where I live lol XD

[noodles355]

Asura really is the shit hole server of FFXI. I am actually embarressed being on the server and seeing the retardedness that occurs in Port Jeuno.

No one likes you. Shut up. うるあい！
(@ PJ prats, not at ppl in this topic)

[noodles355]

Sorry for the necro bump but any chance to call Starcade out as an idiot is worthwhile.
I live in Sapporo, Hokkaido, Japan. Recently it has been very sunny and hot. Most days I go to the park to hang out, then go to a bar when it gets too cold in the evening. On Thursday I did just this. It got cold so I went to a bar. I was minding my own buisness, writing out my Japanese language notes, minding my own buisness. A Japanese guy came up to my table. Guess what he said? No, it wasnt "Hey, filthy gaijin, move, I want to sit here with my friends". He asked if he and his friends could sit at my table so we could hang out and talk togeather. I learnt some new japanese, they learnt some new english, we had a few beers, watched the baseball and had a good time.
The next morning, after my Japanese (hostess, though she wont tell me where she works...) girlfriend (who I met in a bar, who came up to me and asked me over to chat without me hitting on her) left my house, I went to Susukino, the "happening" place in Sapporo. I was just heading to the super market to get some lunch. Some random guy comes up to me, "Hey! Can we chat togeather?" So he walks with me until I get to the supermarket just for a chance to speak english, I point him towards a good gaijin themed bar where he can meet more foriegners and practice english more, and he says "thanks a lot!" and heads off. After this, I go to the park to see my gaijin friend. He also tells me that earlier he had had a different Japanese guy come up to him and ask to hang out and speak english.

This is just a 2 day section out of my life in Japan. This was just the other day. Almost every day in Japan I have 一期一会 (Ichi go Ichi e, look it up). The Japanese are possibly the second most friendly people I have met (the first being new zealand kiwis), and I'm a ski and snowboard instructor who travels all over the world and who's met people from all walks of life.

I'm not even Japanese and it still insults me how you can throw around such horseshit about the Japanese. You are an ignorant idiot who knows sweet FA about the subject matter. You should be banned from these forums. In fact, you should be banned form breathing.

[Alhanelem]

I'm not even Japanese and it still insults me how you can throw around such horseshit about the JapaneseWell people don't really take enough time to think about it (the real problem but when some aren't even willing to use the auto translate to respond to a quesiton (e.g. a yes or no question) or compete for ??? or other things, some get the impression that they're being rude, rather than being unable to communicate. Also given the fact that they have a derogatory term for anyone that's not from Japan, it does create a bit of animosity.
HOWEVER, these are just stereotypes cobbled together from individual experiences, and anyone with some smarts should realize that a couple bad encounters does not mean that they all hate you or anything remotely like that. I've met many friendly japanese players, one of whom was my mentor for summoner. Today, we even had a Japanese visitor looking to us to find the best way to communicate certain things with us. People need to wise up and not just label everything they see.

[Greatguardian]

Sorry for the necro bump but any chance to call Starcade out as an idiot is worthwhile.
I live in Sapporo, Hokkaido, Japan. Recently it has been very sunny and hot. Most days I go to the park to hang out, then go to a bar when it gets too cold in the evening. On Thursday I did just this. It got cold so I went to a bar. I was minding my own buisness, writing out my Japanese language notes, minding my own buisness. A Japanese guy came up to my table. Guess what he said? No, it wasnt "Hey, filthy gaijin, move, I want to sit here with my friends". He asked if he and his friends could sit at my table so we could hang out and talk togeather. I learnt some new japanese, they learnt some new english, we had a few beers, watched the baseball and had a good time.
The next morning, after my Japanese (hostess, though she wont tell me where she works...) girlfriend (who I met in a bar, who came up to me and asked me over to chat without me hitting on her) left my house, I went to Susukino, the "happening" place in Sapporo. I was just heading to the super market to get some lunch. Some random guy comes up to me, "Hey! Can we chat togeather?" So he walks with me until I get to the supermarket just for a chance to speak english, I point him towards a good gaijin themed bar where he can meet more foriegners and practice english more, and he says "thanks a lot!" and heads off. After this, I go to the park to see my gaijin friend. He also tells me that earlier he had had a different Japanese guy come up to him and ask to hang out and speak english.

This is just a 2 day section out of my life in Japan. This was just the other day. Almost every day in Japan I have 一期一会 (Ichi go Ichi e, look it up). The Japanese are possibly the second most friendly people I have met (the first being new zealand kiwis), and I'm a ski and snowboard instructor who travels all over the world and who's met people from all walks of life.

I'm not even Japanese and it still insults me how you can throw around such horseshit about the Japanese. You are an ignorant idiot who knows sweet FA about the subject matter. You should be banned from these forums. In fact, you should be banned form breathing.

I really love hearing anecdotes like this. I have a friend whose older brother actually teaches English in rural Japan now, so it's great to hear about everyday life in other cultures around the world from people who actually live there.

Also, it may please you to know that Starcade was officially handed a ban from FFXI, and thus the forums as well, about a week ago.

[Zumi]

You realize that most Japanese players don't use the auto translator because they don't want to group with English speaking players. No need to get offended or anything they prefer to play with people who speak the same language.

The only people who seem to use the auto translator is English players, which in itself is kind of pointless because when is the last time a Japanese player joined one of your abyssea seal parties. I don't use the auto translator myself because I never seen a JP ask to join a EN party.

[Greatguardian]

Well, with many English-"speaking" players I've seen, the Auto-Translate will spell things a hell of a lot better than they ever will. So, it is still useful even if you are an English speaker speaking to other English speakers. I suppose that may play a part in why we see it used more.

[Alhanelem]

Spelling isn't usually the kind of problem in japanese from what it is in English from what I hear, and also, the auto translate doesn't save them time to use like it does for us.

[noodles355]

Also, it may please you to know that Starcade was officially handed a ban from FFXI, and thus the forums as well, about a week ago.Please tell me it was for use of third party tools. That would be so awesome after his crusade.

I think spelling is more important in japanese, as is pronounciation than in english. Example, if I asked you to go to the shops to buy Sushinoku, and you got there and saw a packet called Sushinoko, it's pretty obvious that's what I meant. But I asked the gf about　すしのく(sushinoku) (need to make sushi rice), she said she'd never heard of it, but she would go to supermarket and get something similar. She bought すしのこ(sushinoko) and was then really surprised when I said that was the one I meant.

Also the word for "A lot" and "One glass of..." is the same, いっぱい ippai, but the meaning depends on if you go up or down at the end... Nothing like going up to the bar after telling your mate you're only stopping in for one beer and ordering "lots of beer" lol

[Alderin]

There are also just as many JP players who would say "LolNA, speak JP or gtfo" as there are NA players who would say "LolJP, speak American or gtfo". Real talk.

Speak "American?"...