World spawning HNM

[Natenn]

Since my last thread got kinda a vague answer then gave us more instanced content i decided id ask again more specifically: will there be (at any point) new world spawning HNM with long windows? Such as old 3 kings system, SW/DI, Aht urghan kings,or CoP Wyrms. At the moment many of my friends are quiting because everything worth doing is instanced. I miss the rush from claiming over competition so do they. Has there been any discussion on this matter even? I was assuming by Lv99 or a few updates after Lv99 there would be at least 1-3 new HNM that were campable with 20hr+ windows. So anyway question stands to the FFXI development team: will there be any new world spawning HNM for us to hunt? Or are all "HNM" from now on gonna be instanced events(??? pops, BCNM ect.)?

This is not a flame anti HNM thread, complaints are to be taken elsewhere please. :)

[Kudlee]

Hopefully I won't come off as rude as this is not my intention, but... your friends are upset enough to quit simply because they can't block other people from getting a NM they want?

This situation seems exactly the type of thing SE is trying to avoid in future content. Otherwise, I don't see why they changed the 3 kings and added voidwatch. Unfortunately (for you), the new content seems to suggest a departure from that old system and I'd say most people probably welcome it.

That said, I can understand longing for a time when rare items really were "rare." Even if you never got some uber piece of gear, it was something to work towards.

[Andrien]

OT:
I hope not. I've seen my share of people leave mules in certain zones, some even lived there. Personally I don't like the game to play me, I prefer to play the game instead.

[Raksha]

poll over on BG:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9776/63179354.jpg

[Sureal]

hi, WORLD POP HNMS ARE A BAD IDEA, ALWAYS WERE, AS WAS SAID IN YOUR LAST THREAD OVER AND OVER, AND WILL BE SAID IN THIS THREAD OVER AND OVER

YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LORD OVER OTHER PLAYERS

WORLD POP HNMS NEED TO DIE IN A FIRE

[Natenn]

Stop derailing the thread and telling ppl to go die.


This is not a flame anti HNM thread, complaints are to be taken elsewhere please.

[Sureal]

sorry, i feel very passionately about this, and as proven on bg, where people WHO DO THESE THINGS, exist on a much larger scale than here, so do a lot of other people, and as long as you continue to insist making these threads, i will insist on coming to put my 2 cents in


and since when are world pop hnms considered players?

[wish12oz]

hi, WORLD POP HNMS ARE A BAD IDEA, ALWAYS WERE, AS WAS SAID IN YOUR LAST THREAD OVER AND OVER, AND WILL BE SAID IN THIS THREAD OVER AND OVER

YOU WANT TO HAVE SOMETHING TO LORD OVER OTHER PLAYERS

WORLD POP HNMS NEED TO DIE IN A FIRE

This is the second best post ever.

To the OP, I'm sorry your friends quit because they suddenly couldn't bot their way to being leet and actually have to work for it in the new system, but I really hope they don't add new versions of the old crap content pretty much everyone hated. If SE could actually do something about bots, I wouldn't mind. Legitimately claiming stuff was always fun, and it's fun to be in the LS everyone is checking while fighting stuff and they QQ in say at you, but that part of FFXI is over, leave it dead and move on.

[Sureal]

but he doesnt bot, he plays on ps2 >.>

hes just better than you, thats all

[wish12oz]

but he doesnt bot, he plays on ps2 >.>

hes just better than you, thats all

I laughed harder then I should of at this.

[Anewie]

According to BG, although there is a dislike for HNMs, there very clearly is still a desire for them.

It's not one sided, it's just a lot of people don't use these boards.

I think people DO WANT new world NM/HNMs, they just don't want them to encourage cheating.
A rare HNM should only take 12-24hrs to spawn and it should pop in various areas and zones to avoid monopolization.

The drops shouldn't be the best, more so alternatives or situational gear or gil items. This will avoid the nessicary to bot them. It's obvious more are against it, but according to that poll, is anything but on sided.

People do want them and enough want them that they should be added. I just don't think the people who dont want them should feel forced to camp them.

It should be something fun to add.

P.S to those derailing, stop please. I want to see a dev respond to this.

[Nynja]

No more 24 hour freespawn garbage :\ They were never fun

[Natenn]

Fun for me. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it should be done away with cause you don't wanna compete.

[Sureal]

-.- havent we been over this, THERE IS NO COMPETITION, its who has the best bots

end of story

unless of course your on ps2, and then well its GAME ON lol

[Nynja]

That must be why SE lowered the respawn times of abyssea NM's from 30-60 to 10-15, because players were having fun!

[Anewie]

btw Natenn, i suggest if you really want a response, you should delete this thread and post it in general discussion. They don't respond much in battle content. you should also post the poll in that thread on bg as well. According to that poll About 1 in 3 people want new NM/HNM and the devs should know be aware of it. They also should be aware of what we don;t want if they chose to add them.

[Arlan]

Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
World Spawn HNMs that repop every 21-24 hours with LOW Drop rates Can Burn in the pit of FIRE!

I enjoy how the NMs are more accessable for a lot of players who just want to long on and get a chance on playing them.
But limiting on who can put the time to get on game to claim an NM that everyone else wants for a small chance of getting a good gear is just plain wrong.

[Natenn]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

[Sureal]

good god natenn, did you not read the last thread, GILSELLERS HAD DROPS OFF KINGS, guess they were good players huh

[Natenn]

RMT died out years ago in HNM scene.

[Nynja]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

You really think its only the cream of the crop with D.Rings, Ridills, E.Bodies in 2005? Really? You think its just the best players who killed kings?

Hey, I guess its only the best NHL players who win stanley cups, because after all only good players win the final trophy. I guess that means Eric Godard is a better player than Alex Ovechkin because Godard has won a cup.

Hey, I guess its ok to live in the stone age of 72 hour HNM's. So do us a favor and move to an amish land where they dont use electricity since you love living in the past so much. Times have changed, time to move on.

Sorry for the stupid RL analogy, but the only way to communicate with stupid is by stupid.

[wish12oz]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

Handing out good gear to only those people whose LS spent $2000->$5000 on a bot is wrong.
nasa/arenz/kaces/etc -looking at you!


RMT died out years ago in HNM scene.

Except from the actual players themselves when they quit or need a quick buck?

[Romanova]

Only good thing about HNMs were that they gave me time to shave my legs.

That is all.

[Arlan]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

Right now, SE is Not handing out good gear to bad players.
SE is providing ALL Players "A CHANCE" to do actual contents to "EARN" our good gear.

Handing out good gear is like SE giving it to you in your delivery box. This is not the case.

HNM repop 21-24 hours spawn should die permanently idc. I wana be able to experience the game too and not be limited because people like you who may have all the time in the world to schedule their RL schedules to play a game can only do the NMs that drop the gear I want too.

[Arlan]

Hey, I guess its ok to live in the stone age of 72 hour HNM's. So do us a favor and move to an amish land where they dont use electricity since you love living in the past so much. Times have changed, time to move on.

Sorry for the stupid RL analogy, but the only way to communicate with stupid is by stupid.

Nynja couldn't say it any better.
What makes a good game, a good game is when it is accessable for all players/customers to be able to enjoy rather than being limited in "TIME".

People log on to play the game, not for the game to play them.
When you have to log into a game just because an HNM is about to pop and you must be there before other players claim, then the game is Controlling you and your Real life. The game is playing you!

I like it now how I can play the game when I want to and where I want to without being told by the game when I need to be on just to get the a chance.

btw.. 72hour repop is just plain BS...
It's gotta go.

[Miitan]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

But handing out good gear to botters is perfectly fine, amirite?

[Natenn]

Id bet most of the people who cry bots never had any evidence, you lose and just go "bots whaaaa its impossible for me to lose ill just say they botted cause i didn't claim". Can deny it all you want but we all know its true, even i QQed time to time about ppl botting but i had no evidence. I just wanted an excuse to save face for losing claims. Now i'll admit bots were a problem at kings but you can't bot outside kings to a point where you can blaim failing to claim alot bc of bots. SW and DI would be unclaimed at least a few minutes so theres no excuse other then you just got beat to claim.If you had no powder boots or movement speed while camping those two you were never gonna claim unless it popped on top of you. Don't blame w/e PC program that lets you see dead bodys either im on PS2 and i beat the tar out of ppl who did use it, why? Because my LS was prepared, alert, ready, and knew what to do/how to kite for a few minutes. So don't try to pin it all on bots.

[Natenn]

Alot of ppl WANT this, just bc they don't post here doesn't mean you are 100% right. And what i choose to do with my time is my choice, if i wanna camp a 21hr to 24hr or a 72hr repop HNM i should be able to, its my buisness not anyone elses.

[Nynja]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.

[Romanova]

Id bet most of the people who cry bots never had any evidence, you lose and just go "bots whaaaa its impossible for me to lose ill just say they botted cause i didn't claim". Can deny it all you want but we all know its true, even i QQed time to time about ppl botting but i had no evidence. I just wanted an excuse to save face for losing claims. Now i'll admit bots were a problem at kings but you can't bot outside kings to a point where you can blaim failing to claim alot bc of bots. SW and DI would be unclaimed at least a few minutes so theres no excuse other then you just got beat to claim.If you had no powder boots or movement speed while camping those two you were never gonna claim unless it popped on top of you. Don't blame w/e PC program that lets you see dead bodys either im on PS2 and i beat the tar out of ppl who did use it, why? Because my LS was prepared, alert, ready, and knew what to do/how to kite for a few minutes. So don't try to pin it all on bots.


Hitting the X button on a ps2 without a bot still doesn't make you a better player and "deserve" better gear over it, while excluding the other 95% of the playerbase.

This is comes down to the real point people are trying to make, not botting.

[Natenn]

Like i said my buisness, not yours. You go tell SE what you want to be added that is fun for you and stop attacking other ppl for their ideas, so many ppl need to stop hating.

[Anewie]

Thats a pretty good argument. "I have people who support my position, theyre just not speaking up". By that notion, you can win any debate or argument or whatever...

DI and Sandworm cant be botted? Might want to do a little more research into that...because while it couldnt be bot claimed, it was definately made positible for one group to have an advantage over others, and it wasnt 9 rangers in 9 zones spamming widescan.



DI and SW were about as fair game as it should get. No one has the right to complain about them. Sure, people could cheat using a scan, but a lot of people use that program, not just for scanning. You couldn't bot di/sw and they were for the most part, claimed by the group that had the most focused group of people. That alone made it the most fair game HNM.

A group of dedicated scanners would almost always beat a group of the same size OR more that simply deathspot scanned. Why? Because you could not bot claim it. A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs, if claiming is not an issue. Finding it was and that is how rare HNM should be.

Dspot scanning will only tell you WHEN it pops, but because the area and range of pops was so massive, it made no difference, but in fact, crippled a deathspot svanner UNLESS he subbed or mained rng or bst.

A non deathspot scanner will trump that person most likely, because they already hav widescan. They might not know the very second it pops, but that offers no real advantage if you dont sub widescan. Most jobs cant sub rng or bst and claim those mobs and survive before tank zones in.

Don't talk about di/sw like you know. It was nothing like kings. Those mobs were about as fair as they come. Only cheating thing was ppl deathscanning and it didnt help them much against competition, so stop using that as an excuse. If you wanna throw down the too long of a repop and not having the resources, fine. But ixion and sandworm were not dominated because of cheating. They were dominated because groups were organized and worked hard to claim them, it did require skill against tough comp.

adding more mobs like di/sw is perfect. khim,cerb popped like kings but theyre drops were not amazing, so most ppl outside hnm shells couldnt have cared that much i think. I welcome new mobs that pop like kings/khim etc as long as they dont give their loot something ppl need to have to be the best. A trophy like hauteclaire or algol or gil is appropriate.

People make the mistake of not making their complaint clear. You don't really care about HNMs. You care about having to do them for drops you need or really want. Asking the devs to not add new world rare hnm/nm is unreasonable, instead u guys should be encouraging them to offer a different variety of ways of obtaining the loot (kings - einherjar or etc) or not making their loot r/e or nessicary. A lot of people genuinally enjoy rare NM and i was one of them.

I just dont enjoy how give them the best loot and then i feel forced to do it.


Lets use ixion cloak for example. When that came out, everyone was like "wow nice!". I wasn't in an hnmls at the time and i didnt have time to play much. I was in a einherjar and salvage ls tho and ixion cloak was AHable. Now i still wanted it, but i really didnt care. I wasn't sad or upset because I was in line for morrigans or dalmatica, which can use a headpiece. I wanted ixion cloak just cause it was pretty.

My point is, some of you need to really look at what you want and dont want and stop being afraid of being left out, when you resally wont be. The king generation is over. They wont go back to that, but bitching about HNM in general is kind of unwarranted because only kings and tiamat were really an issue as ive said.

Nynja, did u really care about ixion/sw gear outside the other much more available gears that were just as good or better situationally? Ancient torque is better than Pcharm but not by much and it wasmuch morwe rare and a hassle. It was a trophy piece for people who put forth the effort. Only a small upgrade from a increddibly common item you could have easily gotten. All it showed was that they got a tiny bit better upgrade for much more work. Why did they care? Some people love that type of content. Going that extreme extra mile even for small upgrade. If they dont offer it, it defeats the whole princible.

I'm not saying you should love hardcore content like that, but comparing the later HNMs to the dawn age HNMs is silly. Because not only were the drops only situationally better, they either werent better or better by a small bit. They were only toys for the "elite". The gap between king/tiamat gear and what was available was so much massive than the gap between khim,cerb,di,sw gear and what was more available.

Notice how no one camped Vrtra or Jorm? Why didn't anyone complain about those NMs? Seriously. Because their drops weren't needed or wanted very much. But why? Vrtra dropped mats for the best brd body in game.. and Jorm dropped "Kraken" pole. So why are they always up? I'm only making the point that it's NOT RARE HNM that is the issue, its the drops.

People can argue "well the old mobs are still there, just do those!", That's true but the game has grown and people want new mobs just as much as new gear. Ix/sw/tia gear is still worth a lot and u can three man them. Why don't we do that? That content is old and I don;t think it's unreasonable to ask for new ones, Nobody is asking for NEW KINGS. Who wants that? Nobody really wants to go back to the bot generation, not even the hardcore people. We've all grown, but the rare spawn mobs have always been a great source of fun in game and since the game is moving up, they should compensate for the lost of interest in the later and older NMs. Not just the standard HNM either.

Cassie,serket,sim,roc,bune,overlord,cactrot,arthro etc etc, were all a lot of fun once SE started booting rmt, why not find replacements for these? All Im saying is, this isnt just about those standrd hnm. rare spawn nm should play a part in the new endgame as its part of what made the game fun and interesting for some people. It doesn't have to all be like it was in the stone age, though.

EDIT: my definition of elite is not a better player, but more so one who will always go that extra mile, minus cheating, to have the nicest item or gear.

[Nynja]

tl;dr

But if you think having 9 rangers widescanning for 5 days is more efficient than 9 possibly afk bots tracking death location and immediately reporting over LS chat that the NM is up and in which area...then sure lol

[Anewie]

tl;dr

But if you think having 9 rangers widescanning for 5 days is more efficient than 9 possibly afk bots tracking death location and immediately reporting over LS chat that the NM is up and in which area...then sure lol

Sorry but, anyone who ever camped di/sw is laughing at you. You clearly have no idea how they were camped or work.. Yes a focused non deathspot scan rng > a deathspot scanner. DP doesn't tell u where it pops.. it just tells u WHEN, u still have to scan for it using WIDESCAN once it pops. The ONLY advantage is not having to continue to hit the map and widescan keys to pull up the scan menu. It was simply a convenience issue with death scanning and ANY other group who had focused people already checking widescan every minute, was just as good if not better.

You just have no idea if u disagree. I was in a shell that put more effort into actual rng scanning and no matter what comp came, we still had an equal chance because their tool was only a convenience, and one that could hurt them. That tool only really worked well with no competition.

For example, since you know so much Nyn, whos gonna win claim, A.. hmm RDM/NIN deathspot scanning or a BST/NIN? Well seeing as how the dp scanner, didn't have widescan, more likely the BST. You can argue the dp scanners used /rng or /bst often but then u would just look more silly because if u had actually camped them ud know sandworm went unclaimed often when kitting. U'd also know di cannot be kited.

U might wanna stop using di/sw as an example because u simply dont know wtf ur talking about, and most people with experience will agree with me. I'm all for bringing to the table, intelligent argument about wehy things shouldn't or should exist, (ala Karbuncle,Leonheart, good points/posters who i disagree with) but dont talk about bots as if you know how they work, when you clearly don't. You simply couldnt cheat to win di/sw, and if u tried against competition, ud probably lose. It requires focus, that is a fact. Even for death scanning.

[Natenn]

Excellent wording as usual Anwie!

[Romanova]

Like i said my buisness, not yours. You go tell SE what you want to be added that is fun for you and stop attacking other ppl for their ideas, so many ppl need to stop hating.

that's fine, but you were attacking others for talking about bots and hnms which is just as a valid complaint as yours. Don't tell people not to attack and hate, then turn around and do the same.

[Anewie]

If you've ever met natenn or surreal, ud know they are not only very good people but good players too. The interesting thing is, here at two respected players who will fight and argue about something in game. This is something SE wants to avoid. They want us to get along and not push eachother.

The problem with that is, Final Fantasy XI up until a year ago was a game built around the type of player who would put an unreasonable amount of effort into making progress on goals and obtaining gear.

That was almost ten years ago, and as i said up until a year ago, everything was the same for 8-9 years. As an 8 year player who just quit this month for the first time, I can give you an honest answer as to why. It's not cause i wanna be better than everyone. It's not because I want to have the best but its available to everyone. I am not a cheater, im not a loser and im not a c*ckblocker.

I don't like MMOs. I've never found them ientertaining of fun enough. It's quite bizare to explain but The NM/HNM hunting. of ffxi kepts me playing for years. I didn't enjoy watching my ls beat some random shell to claim, who were obviously newer to the endgame scene. Did I knowingly partake in shells that had botters in them and profited? Of course, but the thing is, I was a camper before i joined hnm shells. It's one of the exciting and fun things about the game. It was the single most exciting about it. I simply enjoy camping those rare long spawn.

I do have a limit though and a life. Im happy married and in college again. I already went and got a degree before but I wanted to go back for other reasons. My point? I have a life and couldnt commit to camping, but it was the most exciting and relaxing thing for me to do in game when I was free.

Like Natenn, I play primarily on ps2/3. Did I or can i consistantly beat a bot to claim on fafnir? Of course not... But I didn't and don't enjoy kings nearly as much as Tia,cerb,khim,di,serket,casie,ob,arthro etc. I have killed and hunted probably id say anywhere from 90-95% of all free spawn NM/HNM in game :P. Made it a goal when I was nooby to go through wiki and kill them all, haha.

How many of those NMs dropped gear that i could actually use? not nearly enough to warrant me to hunt them outside pure entertainment. Most of it was sold to fund relics and the only king stuff i got was zenith.

Natenn seems bad at wording it, so I'll say it in a way I think he means it better, he enjoys that type of content like me. It doesnt make him a loser, a cheater or someone who JUST WANTS TO BEAT YOU.

And as long as it doesnt go in the LAND KING direction.(pops once a week, Spawns in a corner with a sign that reads "TAG ME!" and drops the best gear in game)

Why do you guys really care? Why not let the camping community compete for their toys? Thats a legitimate question. You dont enjoy camping and the idea of racing or hunting, a rare bad ass mob doesnt entertain you.

I think the answer is simply, you either don't 1. wanna have to worry about camping for the best gear or you don't want to feel left out from 2. fighting a new and exciting mob.

1. I want everyone who reads this post, who "cared" about Khimaira, Cerberus, Ixion or Sandworm to post and say you actually had a very hard time camping these mobs and u legitimately cared about the drops enough that you would actually be dissapointed if they added something like that again. Feel free to throw it in my face and say idk what im talking about, but im willing to bet the only people who really cared about those mobs are in fact, the hnm camping community. Everyone else couldn't have cared and it's not hard to know why. I wont use kings and tiamat because those drops were/are te absolute best and there weren't much of any alternatives. The drops from those mobs were not Luxury or toys. They were a necessity to be seen as above "above average".

2. The whole point and concept of enjoying the fight of those mobs, lies within their exclusivity. The drops aren't nearly as exclusive as the mobs. To say you want to fight them and don't enjoy camping them, would defeat the very purpose in them being rare or exclusive. This is where it gets complicated, because you say its unfair for SE to add content that you cannot do, when in fact, you more than likely don't enjoy it anyway. FFXI has always had rare spawns and they were a prime source of entertainment. The only issue with it was having people revolve around it to be top tier.

If they can avoid making the new endgame revolve around it, but more so add them in to satisfy that player base, theres absolutley no unreasonable reason why they shouldn't add them. You asking them to not add content just bcause you don't enjoy it, is quite bogus. I do and did enjoy it occasionally, even IF i didn't have the time for it. What makes you better and more worth content you enjoy than me?

Why are you concerned with what I enjoy and request to be implimented? No matter what it is. If you don't enjoy it, and you have gear and options elsewhere that are satisfying enough to establish you, why do you care? I'm not paying in the stone ages but you have the mindset of one. The game has come a long way and I am certain they won't give spawns the absolute best gear. Sure, theyll give thme really neat toys, but stop acting like you seriously care but you don't. You're just afraid of not having accessability.

Fact check, you have plenty of it and more of it will come.

[wish12oz]

A group of very focused individuals has a much greater advantage over a group relying on programs

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.


U'd also know di cannot be kited.

DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

[Nynja]

I stopped communicating with these two....

[Anewie]

This is actually incorrect.
There were some programs that probably just weren't on your server. There was one in particular, it displayed an LS message when stuff would pop, saying what the mob was and what zone it was in, AND it would give you an arrow showing you which direction it was from you, and this all happened immediately when it spawned. If that didn't give you a bigger advantage over anyone and make you get claims 99% of the time, you were afk.



DI is about the easiest mob in the game to kite. If you ever fought it you would probably know this.

Lmao, cause @ +250 movement speed, it was just so easy for ppl to kite. This is complete bs and you and Nyn are trolling.

And what was the name of this supposed program that would magically know what a complete other zone has up? Or did you mean a person in a zone standing at a deathspot and being able to call out pop? with this program having the arrow or w.e point out? I'm gonna clarify this on bg because it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program. I knew spot scanners and they still needed widescan. They would say the print moved, but they didn't know where it popped.

If you're saying theres a program that can tell you a mob is up from any zone, i'm def calling bs on you. It's not possible for a program in xx zone to know what is up and where in another xx zone and saying DI was kiteable, lol.

Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.

[Nynja]

Yeah, were the trolls, yet the Headlong Belt sam is, as you so eloquently defined as:

ud know they are not only very good people but good players too.

[Sureal]

lol, cause you know me, you know who i am, what im all about by looking at my ffxiah profile, regardless of the fact i already told you i quit for a year and a half, but im supposed to have top notch gear the day i come back right, sorry

[Natenn]

Don't worry Anwei, they're just getting overly defensive cause you are right. Idk what server yall oh but on Pandy then Asura i stomped my competition. Donno where all these super unbeatable bots you keep harpin on about are but i must of never had to deal with em.

[Anewie]

Don't worry Anwei, they're just getting overly defensive cause you are right. Idk what server yall oh but on Pandy then Asura i stomped my competition. Donno where all these super unbeatable bots you keep harpin on about are but i must of never had to deal with em.

I stand corrected that there does exist such a program, doesn't change the fact that actually scanners stand just a good chance at getting it as some dping.

My point was, they didn't have an advantage over a focused person as opposed to King camping where you can stand on a mob and bot claim it. I too have beaten deathspot scanners. I think those two are just grasping at straws so throw the "they bot" excuse. Seriously, there was a reason a lot of shells and groups that didn't do generic kings but did SW/Ixion.

Know why? because they could actually stand an equal chance if they focused.

You cant even claim ixion w.o throwing ash at it, so my point rests. GTFO with that cheating stuff as a means to dominate wotg HNM. It rly is bs.

My shell only ever dp scanned when there was NO competition and we didn't even go out to scan. One single person just went zone to zone to check dps. When comp came, we got on RDM/RNG NIN/RNG or RNG and put 1-2 ppl in every zone, and thats the best way to do it.

[Arlan]

Alot of ppl WANT this, just bc they don't post here doesn't mean you are 100% right. And what i choose to do with my time is my choice, if i wanna camp a 21hr to 24hr or a 72hr repop HNM i should be able to, its my buisness not anyone elses.

How about, Go to abyssea or find a pop NM outside of abyssea, have your pop item ready, and wait 21-74 hours, and pretend it is a HNM, then pop the NM with a friend outside of your party, and try to claim it before he does.
Now leave the rest of us alone who don't want to be limited in time to engage on fighting NMs they wish when they wish.

Majority of players dont like logging on a game to try to get a chance for an NM that other players will prevent them from trying to get. That is just plain boring. Majority want to log on, and play the game and be able to have access to challenging contents on their own time schedule, not the game's.

[Nynja]

lol, cause you know me, you know who i am, what im all about by looking at my ffxiah profile, regardless of the fact i already told you i quit for a year and a half, but im supposed to have top notch gear the day i come back right, sorry

Yeah, because Swift Belt's were introduced last year...


I stand corrected that there does exist such a program

Shows how much you know from the get go

[Drhatchet]

Handing out good gear to bad players is wrong.

While I generally agree with this statement, I would rather drink liquid nitrogen than camp a 21-24 hour pop nm that everyone and their grandma is trying to claim. That's not skill, its luck (or bots).

If they removed brew I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Infact, SE SHOULD remove brew after the pitiful performance of the pickup I joined last night (an almace that never did more than 200 chant ect.), and make the game more about skill than grinding.

[wish12oz]

it was my understanding there was a range limit on this program.

There is no limit on the range of the program I was referring to, you simply had to be in the zone. Invis+flee hack+this program = can't be beat. And I mean seriously, if you're using using bots to claim and watch for HNMs, why would you care if you were flee hacking? If you still seriously think it was an even competition then you simply did not compete against it.
(It was actually 2 programs used together, if you ask on BG you probably know this, and I'm saying it so you can confirm I mean teh same thing.)



Ixion runs at +75-250% movement speed with addition effects of en-bind and en-gravity. Mind telling me how he was so kiteable if you cannot outrun him, elegy and slow are basically pointless (he attacks fast) and has a high proc rate on en bind/gravity? Please get back to me on this.

It's because it constantly stops to attack, then stands there and doesn't move while you run away, then stops even longer and uses spear/wrath giving plenty of time to reapply defensive buffs or cure or whatever you do. And once you get outside a certain range, it simply spams the move where it puts its head down and charges, and if you can't get away from that, I pity you. Maybe you're thinking you wouldn't have utsusemi because you have to use widescan on your subjob because you think you needed to sub rng and that made it hard for you to kite?


If they removed brew I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Infact, SE SHOULD remove brew after the pitiful performance of the pickup I joined last night (an almace that never did more than 200 chant ect.), and make the game more about skill than grinding.

I don't get this at all. I like that content is available for anyone who wants to go do it. Noobs with empyreans does not bother me at all, maybe because I'm use to seeing noobs with relics and the best gear availible. But at the end of the day it takes skill to put any item to use regardless of what it is, 200 damage chant is pretty pitiful and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game and how to make a WS set. This is all that you really need to seperate the playerbase as far as I am concerned. If people want to put in the effort to acquire something I think they should be able to, but maybe I'm just biased because I use to enjoy outparsing all the relics I came across with my mediocre average gear.

And as far as it goes, I see way less noobs with top tier gear now then I did when the game was 75 cap.

[Anewie]

There is no limit on the range of the program I was referring to, you simply had to be in the zone. Invis+flee hack+this program = can't be beat. And I mean seriously, if you're using using bots to claim and watch for HNMs, why would you care if you were flee hacking? If you still seriously think it was an even competition then you simply did not compete against it.
(It was actually 2 programs used together, if you ask on BG you probably know this, and I'm saying it so you can confirm I mean teh same thing.)



It's because it constantly stops to attack, then stands there and doesn't move while you run away, then stops even longer and uses spear/wrath giving plenty of time to reapply defensive buffs or cure or whatever you do. And once you get outside a certain range, it simply spams the move where it puts its head down and charges, and if you can't get away from that, I pity you. Maybe you're thinking you wouldn't have utsusemi because you have to use widescan on your subjob because you think you needed to sub rng and that made it hard for you to kite?



I don't get this at all. I like that content is available for anyone who wants to go do it. Noobs with empyreans does not bother me at all, maybe because I'm use to seeing noobs with relics and the best gear availible. But at the end of the day it takes skill to put any item to use regardless of what it is, 200 damage chant is pretty pitiful and shows a complete lack of understanding of the game and how to make a WS set. This is all that you really need to seperate the playerbase as far as I am concerned. If people want to put in the effort to acquire something I think they should be able to, but maybe I'm just biased because I use to enjoy outparsing all the relics I came across with my mediocre average gear.

And as far as it goes, I see way less noobs with top tier gear now then I did when the game was 75 cap.

Oh, please. Yeah Ixion goes through those AIs where he charges horn and and will tp but you clearly have never fought it. News flash, ixion does physical attacks and he does them more often and incredibly fast. Once he lands a hit on you, you will likely have ewnbind or engravity on.

Saying ixion is was one of the easiest mobs to kite makes you look stupid and you're not really saving face because that's simply not true. Ixion is not "easy to kite". Sure, hes "easy" to REPOSITION, if you need. But kiting? Try kitting or running from ixion after you claim it. News flash, you won't get very far. All your shadows will be gone from both Ni and Ichi before he does a TP move, and you can bet you'll either be bound or weighted down as well. If you disagree, you just don't know.



Get out.

[wish12oz]

Oh, please. Yeah Ixion goes through those AIs where he charges horn and and will tp but you clearly have never fought it. News flash, ixion does physical attacks and he does them more often and incredibly fast. Once he lands a hit on you, you will likely have ewnbind or engravity on.

Saying ixion is was one of the easiest mobs to kite makes you look stupid and you're not really saving face because that's simply not true. Ixion is not "easy to kite". Sure, hes "easy" to REPOSITION, if you need. But kiting? Try kitting or running from ixion after you claim it. News flash, you won't get very far. All your shadows will be gone from both Ni and Ichi before he does a TP move, and you can bet you'll either be bound or weighted down as well. If you disagree, you just don't know.

Here's a pic of me tanking it on PLD at 75.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/ffxi_20100510_120036.png

Here's a pic of me soloing it at 90 with my 2 accounts.
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/4dce0ea389118b0a2b00116f
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/4dce0eae89118b0a2b001170

So you totally right dawg, I never fought it ever, and I never drug it half way across a zone to get it to a good spot where I can not pay attention to where my WHM is standing and what it's doing. I also never drug it half way across a zone to where the alliance was going to be either.


Maybe you should take your own advice.


Get out.

Just because it's hard for you to do something, does not mean it's hard for OTHER people to do it, it means you're bad at it.

[Daremo]

And as long as it doesn't go in the LAND KING direction.(pops once a week, Spawns in a corner with a sign that reads "TAG ME!" and drops the best gear in game)


Anawie's hammer strikes true, pummeling the nail for 9999 points of damage. Yet somehow still misses the point.

This is exactly what people don't want, and exactly what people are afraid of. Why? Because you don't see people camping King Vinegarroon or Jormungand for the thrill. People only camp mobs with good items, and most people, while they want good items, don't want to go back to the virtual MMA cage that was old HNM.

Some people liked it in the MMA cage. Bully for them, but be aware that a lot of people felt forced to participate and detested it. Of course they're going to oppose the suggestion of bringing anything like that back.

If you really don't want to indulge in elitist fantasies of being 'the best', then make a multi-LS event out of it. Shout it in Jeuno, post it on forums, send /tells to all the old HNM shell members you remember on your server, and then meet up at Vrtra. Whoa baby, the thrill is back! If anyone comes...

A small minority asking for a niche play mechanic that's actively hated by a slightly larger minority and of massive indifference to the majority... This probably has as much chance as open world PvP.

[Anewie]

Here's a pic of me tanking it on PLD at 75.
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c243/r5n/ffxi_20100510_120036.png

Here's a pic of me soloing it at 90 with my 2 accounts.
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/4dce0ea389118b0a2b00116f
http://guildwork.com/#/albums/image/4dce0eae89118b0a2b001170

So you totally right dawg, I never fought it ever, and I never drug it half way across a zone to get it to a good spot where I can not pay attention to where my WHM is standing and what it's doing. I also never drug it half way across a zone to where the alliance was going to be either.


Maybe you should take your own advice.



Just because it's hard for you to do something, does not mean it's hard for OTHER people to do it, it means you're bad at it.

1, I dont see anything in the other two pics.

2. You said Ixion is "one of the easiest mobs to kite". I'm calling bs alert. Show me a video of pic of you kitting dark ixion for a prolonger period of time without getting bound or weighted down. I'm not saying you didn't kill it, I'm not saying he's not easy to kill.

My argument is that Dark Ixion is not "easy to kite". He's easy to reposition or pull to camp etc, but a person can't kite him long term w.o help and not die. Even if you have help, you're going to get hit and likely get debuffed. The mob bouncing hate back and forth off people once someone dies.. I dont consider that kiting. I didn't say you couldn't kite him for oh.. 15-20secs, ok, yeah. I still think you're way overexaggerating when you say hes one of the easiest mobs to kite, cause thats kinda bs.

edit: oh you were in empressshields?^^ /wave, I was on Kujata/valefor too. I'm not trying to be mean, but when I think "easy to kite", KV or Kirin comes to mind. Di? Nope.

[wish12oz]

1, I dont see anything in the other two pics.

2. You said Ixion is "one of the easiest mobs to kite". I'm calling bs alert. Show me a video of pic of you kitting dark ixion for a prolonger period of time without getting bound or weighted down. I'm not saying you didn't kill it, I'm not saying he's not easy to kill.

My argument is that Dark Ixion is not "easy to kite". He's easy to reposition or pull to camp etc, but a person can't kite him long term w.o help and not die. Even if you have help, you're going to get hit and likely get debuffed. I didn't say you couldn't kite him for oh.. 15-20secs, ok, yeah. I still think you're way overexaggerating when you say hes one of the easiest mobs to kite, cause thats kinda bs.

edit: oh you were in empressshields?^^ /wave, I was on Kujata/valefor too. I'm not trying to be mean, but when I think "easy to kite", KV or Kirin comes to mind. Di? Nope.

Kazoku LS, Quetzecoatl is the PLD SS.
At 75 I drug it half way across the zone many times, and not once was it ever difficult.
EDIT:: I take that back, I remember one time I died when I claimed it on rng/sam without any buffs and with no one else around. So I had problems once when I was unprepared and trying to beat someone else.

In that Ronfarue SS, I drug it on just my NIN, from by the zone to jugner, to the waterfall, thats like 6 blocks, and I didn't get hit once. At one point when I was fighting in Saruta another time, I actually got hit with a spear I didn't see because I gear swapped when it started the animation, and died, then kited it for 6-7 min on my WHM mule while casting raise/reapplying buffs to my NIN, then curing my NIN when weakness wore. It was stupidly easy, and I was doing much more then simply kiting.

So ya, I stand by my statement of "its one of the easiest mobs in the game to kite."
Just because it's hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for other people, you need to learn this. It doesn't make you a bad player, it just means you're not as good at something as other people. It's ok to be bad at stuff, like me, I'm terrible at keeping people besides myself alive, and I have a 90 WHM I leveled.

Also: come to my server and find DI up unclaimed and I will come kite it for you, not a big deal, but I don't have fraps or anything.

[Anewie]

Kazoku LS, Quetzecoatl is the PLD SS.
At 75 I drug it half way across the zone many times, and not once was it ever difficult.
EDIT:: I take that back, I remember one time I died when I claimed it on rng/sam without any buffs and with no one else around. So I had problems once when I was unprepared and trying to beat someone else.

In that Ronfarue SS, I drug it on just my NIN, from by the zone to jugner, to the waterfall, thats like 6 blocks, and I didn't get hit once. At one point when I was fighting in Saruta another time, I actually got hit with a spear I didn't see because I gear swapped when it started the animation, and died, then kited it for 6-7 min on my WHM mule while casting raise/reapplying buffs to my NIN, then curing my NIN when weakness wore. It was stupidly easy, and I was doing much more then simply kiting.

So ya, I stand by my statement of "its one of the easiest mobs in the game to kite."
Just because it's hard for you doesn't mean it's hard for other people, you need to learn this. It doesn't make you a bad player, it just means you're not as good at something as other people. It's ok to be bad at stuff, like me, I'm terrible at keeping people besides myself alive, and I have a 90 WHM I leveled.

Tony gonna be making a comeback someday? He was a really good player and made that LS pretty damn successful. Kaz was pretty solid LS. I was kinda bummed when I read he was quitting.

I'm not a totally stubborn betch, so I'll stand corrected. If Ixion is easy for you kite, it just means you're better than me. I'm just going off my personal experiences.

For example, when I claimed ixion id shadowbind right after and run, after it wore and tank was not there, my shadows would start dropping pretty quickly and in no time, I was bound or weighted down. I also can recall quite a few times when competition won and the claimer would die before their tank zones in. Now granted, this just means they suck if you're tank is that slow zoning in, but i'm more focused on the kiting factor. (i'm sure u remember something like this too, haha. funny stuff)

sorry for the bitchtude.

It's funny how small XI is getting. I know so many older players on here. I've gotten around, haha.

Wow.. Just checked AH, like all the drings in kaz quit? Cac been gone 9 months.. >< i guess they didn't like the abyssea stuff?;/ Meh.

[wish12oz]

Kazoku was never really a good LS, old content was just easy and they had the means to monopolize it. I joined because I wanted 1 or 2 things and they were the only ones who could get it. Simple as that. Tony quit when abyssea came out because he recognized how bad the LS was how they wouldn't be able to do new content. Heck, he didn't even do salvage with the LS, and he bought sea drops from another LS because he didn't think his LS could do it.

Before I left, I seriously tried to make them into a good LS, and become a leader, but it didn't work out, they promoted retards to sacks and got tired of me telling them what they should do to make the LS not terrible. The LS fell apart completely when heros came out. Nothing they could do was worth anything anymore, and they weren't the best LS around, because they could no longer block everyone else from content and be the only ones with it. There was only a few good people in the whole LS anyway, the rest were just people who rotated in and got the 2-3 things they wanted then left while farming gil for the leaders. And well ya, most are probably gone by now, and I'd bet a lot of money the rest wish they listened to me or left with me to do what I was doing.

I totally liked the post under mine, he knows Tonys LS was a joke too lol.

[Sureal]

ok, ive heard enough from you anewie, if you seriously believe that A. tony was a good player, and B. that kazoku was a decent shell, kazoku was laughed off of bahamut for a reason

if this is your comparison for what a "good" shell with "good" players is, then i fully understand where you are coming from, because compared to kazoku, gil sellers are good players (now i dont want anyone coming to me and crying oh im in kazoku) if you are on quez or w/e the hell tony ran off too, i dont know you personally, i just know tony, his minions he took with him and the original cult he had on bahamut, so thats all i can go by)


now as for nynja, are you seriously that butthurt that i called you out in your other thread that you had to do a personal search of me? im flattered really, cause honestly, only a hater would go that far, and you know what i love haters, means im doing my job, means you want to be me, you are mad that you are not me, so you will do what it takes to try to take me down to feel better than me, but guess what, haters make me stronger, i welcome haters, without haters, i would have no reason to exist, so while youre at it, throw something at me for wearing an amemet mantle +1 for a long time, ooooo, i love it, im a grown ass man, i dont get hurt that easily, and it takes a whole lot more than someone on a forum making fun of a belt i used to wear in a game

dont think i forgot about you natenn, i could never forget about you, i dont even know what your last argument was, but

world pop hnm's are dumb
gilsellers had gear off kings
bots will be your "ps2"
claiming is not competition
um.... titles do not distinguish endgame players from regular players
and ill add a new one in here, if your argument is solely based around DI and Sandworm, well no one cared about them enough, their drops were meh

any arguments you keep bringing up that i missed?

[Sureal]

so 12oz, how many pieces of gear did you get to see tony take from active members that needed it

[Natenn]

I was told Kazoku was average at best lol, and yea DI can be kited if you don't make any mistakes, as for Arlan why don't you go to abyssea and spam more easy content and think its real endgame more. HNM were the only real endgame. There is no endgame now, just weak casual content, why don't the rest of you stop bein mad and try something of average or higher difficulty like claiming and killing hard HNM when they come out. Or don't idc, no ones forcing you. Tired of ppl crying on these forums to cater to their 1 way for all attitudes cause they can be wrong and just hit the report button if anyone tried to correct them.

World spawn HNM is/was the only worthwhile endgame. See: servers being /shutdown bc endgame getting killed off.

[Natenn]

You only think their dumb bc you couldn't claim or you're just not an HNM person. Don't camp if its not fun, i keep hearing "you are the minority", you just afraid of going back to being the minority player base if HNM come back since theres thousands (probably) of ppl who will be back with HNM. /threadsecutioner

[Sureal]

no

thats all you get anymore as you refuse to listen to the arguments everyone has told you over and over and over and over and over......

ps. and over and over and over and over

[Natenn]

Because all i hear is "More instanced content!" which is /doze

[wish12oz]

so 12oz, how many pieces of gear did you get to see tony take from active members that needed it

None because he had everything from the stuff the LS did, he just used the LS to make gil for himself. He did have 4 relics he didn't use properly when he quit after all lol.


as for Arlan why don't you go to abyssea and spam more easy content and think its real endgame more.

World spawn HNM is/was the only worthwhile endgame. See: servers being /shutdown bc endgame getting killed off.

I don't understand how easy content you can fight when you want to, is less endgamey then easy content you fight when the game wants you to. In your definition salvage, dynamis, einherjar, sky, sea, and limbus are not 'endgame.' Even though they were all clearly designed for level 75s to do as groups to get the best items in the game.

Also: servers were not shutdown due to loss of players because HNMs were not the best anymore. I dunno how it was on your server, but on mine, there was only 1 LS that camped HNMs anyway, so even if all 25-30 of those people quit, that would not reduce the size of the server enough by itself to make them merge the servers.


EDIT: Whats wrong with instanced content? You get to participate in your endgame stuff while not having to deal with noobs outclaiming you or taking forever to kill something holding you up from popping it, or something else? It puts the emphasis on skill and ability to do stuff over placing it on the tools you have available to you.

[Sureal]

no

10chars

[Arlan]

You only think their dumb bc you couldn't claim or you're just not an HNM person. Don't camp if its not fun, i keep hearing "you are the minority", you just afraid of going back to being the minority player base if HNM come back since theres thousands (probably) of ppl who will be back with HNM. /threadsecutioner

Oh I do my Abyssea contents.
I do Mission Contents for friends who need it since I finished all mine and I enjoy it, Specially CoP.
I do the contents cause they are not only fun but accessible for me and anyone who want to get a chance at something to achieve while logged on to play.

But like I said before,
Go find a friend, find a pop item to Pop NM, then wait 24-72 hours and pretend it is an HNM, and who ever claims the NM "wins".

Endgame = events that are made for players who reached the end of leveling and want contents to enjoy.

I enjoy this game, I love the new direction, the question now is, do you?
If not then stop playing the game. The game is better off without HNMs and players like you who wish to prevent other players who also want a chance at the NM like you do.

[Nynja]

now as for nynja, are you seriously that butthurt that i called you out in your other thread that you had to do a personal search of me?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Ravenmore]

So natenn your only saying that old ground was hard cause of claiming. Fact that was the only thing that was a challenge. The mobs were weaker then kirin and HNM ls burned them down as fast as they could so they could sell the drops and get the hell out of the camp. Least with abyssea you get punshied if you zerg with out getting procs or you heal it. Another reason why everything in abyssea takes reduced dmg from soul eater, blood weapon.

[Nynja]

Sounds to me like theres a select few who are upset they cant grief people with their bots by going "lol I has drops n u dont"

[Leonlionheart]

Because all i hear is "More instanced content!" which is /doze

if you don't like one of the best things to happen to the game

play another game

[wish12oz]

if you don't like one of the best things to happen to the game

play another game

He cant, every other MMO is like this too.

[Nynja]

He should try playing this MMO...

http://www.se51.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mmorpg-reallife.jpg

[Arlan]

He should try playing this MMO...

http://www.se51.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/mmorpg-reallife.jpg

Yup, That MMORPG is a much more suitable game for the OP. =)

[Kudlee]

I have a question since no one's really mentioning the NM fights themselves (and drops seem to be a secondary consideration) in this thread. I take it that the request is simply for some new monsters that will pop on their own unclaimed, preferably with some aspect that makes it desirable enough that you have competition in claiming them (for the thrill that is)?

I don't really see a problem with wanting this if that's the type of content that you enjoy. That said, I can't help but see the (re)introduction of endgame HNMs which spawn and are claimed this way as unrealistic. I don't have the ability to poll every player to find out their thoughts on the subject, but I would think that most players do not enjoy waiting around for hours and hours for a mob to pop. Personally, I'd rather just be fighting the mob and working on my strategy in fighting the NM rather than working on strategies to outclaim other players. It also seems more in line with the spirit of the game (as the focus on cooperation between players rather than PVP actually brought me to FFXI to begin with).

I can understand that possibly a significant number of people long for the days of camping NMs and for the competition, but let's think this through logically. The thrill comes from the fruition of your preparation and your eventual success. The more popular the NM is, the more people that camp it (and the more people that are disappointed from not claiming it). If it's not popular then most people are ignoring it anyway and the effort to create the content is wasted. Why would a company waste resources on something that either alienates players, or is mostly ignored?

[Sureal]

no matter what you offer to natenn, he claims something different, first the fights are the challenge, and we explain to him how hnm fights having been a challenge for about 6 years now, or to go fight rani/av/pw, but hes either already done them, or doesnt want to do old content, then we say ok, put world spawning hnm's in, but also put the same gear on bcnm's, to which he says no because he wasnt to have "special" gear, then he says something about titles, then he says something else

basically what it boils down to is that he wants to bottleneck people [Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

[Anewie]

I have a question since no one's really mentioning the NM fights themselves (and drops seem to be a secondary consideration) in this thread. I take it that the request is simply for some new monsters that will pop on their own unclaimed, preferably with some aspect that makes it desirable enough that you have competition in claiming them (for the thrill that is)?

I don't really see a problem with wanting this if that's the type of content that you enjoy. That said, I can't help but see the (re)introduction of endgame HNMs which spawn and are claimed this way as unrealistic. I don't have the ability to poll every player to find out their thoughts on the subject, but I would think that most players do not enjoy waiting around for hours and hours for a mob to pop. Personally, I'd rather just be fighting the mob and working on my strategy in fighting the NM rather than working on strategies to outclaim other players. It also seems more in line with the spirit of the game (as the focus on cooperation between players rather than PVP actually brought me to FFXI to begin with).

I can understand that possibly a significant number of people long for the days of camping NMs and for the competition, but let's think this through logically. The thrill comes from the fruition of your preparation and your eventual success. The more popular the NM is, the more people that camp it (and the more people that are disappointed from not claiming it). If it's not popular then most people are ignoring it anyway and the effort to create the content is wasted. Why would a company waste resources on something that either alienates players, or is mostly ignored?

I really like the way you put this. It's intelligent and spot on.

No need to make fun of people and call me botter or stuff. Me and Natenn aren't much different in out views of fun. The only difference between us is that I enjoy a more balanced system where I can do a variety of things. NM/HNM camping to me is/was the most fun i've ever had in ffxi. It's really rude to call me a no lifer and etc. Especially since I very much have a life and couldn't commit to spawn mobs all the time, I simply enjoyed it when I could.

The thread on bg suggest about (out of 200 votes)1 in 3 people want new world spawn A nm/hnm. The point isn't that if people want that type of content, we just don't want it to be as forced and congested as it once was. It boils down to it should be fun, not a job but it could feel like a job if it seems forced on you. Having a longer spawn monster or a lottery monster, doesn't by nature make it seem like a job, it makes it seem like a job when it seem a necessity and am i really so naive to think they can avoid that if they tried? They did perfect with the later NMs. Sure, you're always going to have some way of cheating, thats with anything though. It was done really well though on their part as developers in terms of the later HNM/NM. I'm sure they can come up with ways to make new spawns fun without having the game revolve around it.

I really thought SW was the neatest HNM in game. With the whole doomvoid thing. They should add several more of him. I think having 3-5 sw type mobs all on different times that doomvoid you to different BCs would be pretty neat, but as I said before or a new rare Dragon type mob that pops in area similar to vrtra or jorm, but I enjoy that type of content.

I do want to clarify something though, the fun doesn't come from massive competition. Too much comp makes it not fun to me. When I camped STUFF, it was annoying when there was 3-5 shells out there. On sw/di, it was mostly just one other shell. Competition is nice, it adds sport if it requires some level of focusing. Lots of competition is not good, but another group is fine and thats typically what it was for the past 2-3 years in terms of wotg nms.

[Anewie]

Also, campers typically want trophies. I was talking to a guy and he said he values his hauteclaire more than his magian trial sword. I asked why, and he said because he camped hard for it and it felt special. He said he valued his hnm gears more than the af3 and etc, which is significantly better. If they do add more spawn type mobs, all i ask if they into consideration the drops. Give them some neat toys but not the absolute best gear and a wide pop area and if people complain about it, just add the drops to alternate bc method.

Honeslty hearing people bitch about spawned mobs.. kinda took the fun out of it for me. I really got tired of hearing people call everyone who camped a no lifer or botter.

[Arlan]

If they do add a Spawn Type HNM 24-74hours repop, then They better make a 3-4 people battle field type event for me to be able to get the same drops that the HNM would drop then.

Make the drop rates the same as the HNM, but only difference is, you get ACCESS to a Key Item to enter the Battle field once per 24hours. instead of waiting for some HNM to pop once every 24hours.

That way those who wana camp HNM + do Battle field for more chance at the items can. And those who dont have time for the HNM can just stick with the battle fields and do them with friends.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
But making HNMs get exclusive gear for those who have time to waste is Bull..
I don't have time to participate in a HNM LS or some crap like that.
I wana enjoy game with friends, not be told to log on because an NM has poped.. No thanks.
Those days are over and im happy for now.

[Natenn]

They can't claim so they wanna do away with it so no one can enjoy it.

[Sureal]

no

10 chars

[Anewie]

If they do add a Spawn Type HNM 24-74hours repop, then They better make a 3-4 people battle field type event for me to be able to get the same drops that the HNM would drop then.

Make the drop rates the same as the HNM, but only difference is, you get ACCESS to a Key Item to enter the Battle field once per 24hours. instead of waiting for some HNM to pop once every 24hours.

That way those who wana camp HNM + do Battle field for more chance at the items can. And those who dont have time for the HNM can just stick with the battle fields and do them with friends.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
But making HNMs get exclusive gear for those who have time to waste is Bull..
I don't have time to participate in a HNM LS or some crap like that.
I wana enjoy game with friends, not be told to log on because an NM has poped.. No thanks.
Those days are over and im happy for now.

Me and you are completely different players and I completely agree with you. I understand where Natenn is coming from but I also don't have the time to camp stuff a lot and if I ever come back to game, i'd like to adjust my playtime to my interests. If I wanna camp a Trophy mob to feel accomplished, whether it's for the trophy drop, the exclusivity of the mob or the rush of the fight/claim, thats the way I likeed to play occasionally and there absolutley nothing wrong with that.

Whats "wrong" is when I want the game to revolve around my issues and playtime, which is stupid. News flash, everyone has a different schedule and interests. It doesnt make someone a botter, a no lifer (although they might be a both) and it also doesnt make someone a noob or unworthy(although they might be both..)

Me personally, I never understood why certain players don't enjoy exclusive content. I'll never understand why everyone wants to be the same and have the same stuff. I only ever felt any personal accomplishment in game when I did salvage or HNM. That doesn't make me a loser either.

I did enjoy limbus, dynamis, nyzul. Those were fun and entertaining to me but the reason I quit game was simply because a certain aspect of the game is now gone. Is it a shallow aspect? You might think so and that's okay. But its what I enjoyed doing in ffxi among many other things and 8 years in, id say ive grown a lot as a gamer.

I've never been the player who says "haha i got your hnm drops! Im superior! Ull never beat me!". The fun from HNMs came from the accomplishing feeling. That to me, was "fun". When I first got 75, and everyone was in aery, i couldnt get into a king ls. This was wayyy back in the day. I think like in 2003-2004. That was not fun to me being left out. By time King bodies got into einherjar.. I was already in a hnmls. We didn't win claim much but we made progress. My point is, I was very happy king bodies were made elsewhere and that's how it should be with hnm drops. Gaiters/Ridill/Dring should have already been in odins chamber imo.

Although I think some content should be exclusive, the value of the availability of the rewards needs to be balanced in such a way that we can have it both ways.

[Arlan]

If they do add a Spawn Type HNM 24-74hours repop, then They better make a 3-4 people battle field type event for me to be able to get the same drops that the HNM would drop then.

Make the drop rates the same as the HNM, but only difference is, you get ACCESS to a Key Item to enter the Battle field once per 24hours. instead of waiting for some HNM to pop once every 24hours.

That way those who wana camp HNM + do Battle field for more chance at the items can. And those who dont have time for the HNM can just stick with the battle fields and do them with friends.

PROBLEM SOLVED.
But making HNMs get exclusive gear for those who have time to waste is Bull..
I don't have time to participate in a HNM LS or some crap like that.
I wana enjoy game with friends, not be told to log on because an NM has poped.. No thanks.
Those days are over and im happy for now.

Like I said above, The game should be accessible and enjoyable for all players to enjoy.
The game shouldn't be only accessible for people like you who can afford all the time in the world to play a video game. The game shouldn't be a chore, it should be fun.

It is not fun waiting 24-74 hours for an NM to respawn cause I have RL schedules that cannot always meet with NM's pop time. And if I do, a lot of people who also want the item, will want to try to claim same as I do. POINTLESS and Boring.

[Arlan]

Me and you are completely different players and I completely agree with you. I understand where Natenn is coming from but I also don't have the time to camp stuff a lot and if I ever come back to game, i'd like to adjust my playtime to my interests. If I wanna camp a Trophy mob to feel accomplished, whether it's for the trophy drop, the exclusivity of the mob or the rush of the fight/claim, thats the way I likeed to play occasionally and there absolutley nothing wrong with that.

Whats "wrong" is when I want the game to revolve around my issues and playtime, which is stupid. News flash, everyone has a different schedule and interests. It doesnt make someone a botter, a no lifer (although they might be a both) and it also doesnt make someone a noob or unworthy(although they might be both..)

Me personally, I never understood why certain players don't enjoy exclusive content. I'll never understand why everyone wants to be the same and have the same stuff. I only ever felt any personal accomplishment in game when I did salvage or HNM. That doesn't make me a loser either.

I did enjoy limbus, dynamis, nyzul. Those were fun and entertaining to me but the reason I quit game was simply because a certain aspect of the game is now gone. Is it a shallow aspect? You might think so and that's okay. But its what I enjoyed doing in ffxi among many other things and 8 years in, id say ive grown a lot as a gamer.

I've never been the player who says "haha i got your hnm drops! Im superior! Ull never beat me!". The fun from HNMs came from the accomplishing feeling. That to me, was "fun". When I first got 75, and everyone was in aery, i couldnt get into a king ls. This was wayyy back in the day. I think like in 2003-2004. That was not fun to me being left out. By time King bodies got into einherjar.. I was already in a hnmls. We didn't win claim much but we made progress. My point is, I was very happy king bodies were made elsewhere and that's how it should be with hnm drops. Gaiters/Ridill/Dring should have already been in odins chamber imo.

Although I think some content should be exclusive, the value of the availability of the rewards needs to be balanced in such a way that we can have it both ways.

My Idea is perfect for your type of play style and Mine.
But if you want an exclusive trophy from out claiming an NM that respawns every 24-74 hours then that trophy needs to be a Mog house kinda Trophy where u can put it on for decor or something to show how you claimed the HNM in order to obtain the item that extra bonus item. Maybe it could be a Statue of the HNM you camped? Something like that for show off but, Not something that is a gear that is very valuable and epic where a lot of people like me also want it badly but cannot afford time to get it and will not experience it due to this limitation.

I am against this mainly because I want to also enjoy contents that I would like to participate and get a good chance in getting things from them. I feel accomplishment when I get things done and my character improves in every aspect when I log in for the day. I don't feel like im wasting time and that is the feeling I like when it comes down to Abyssea Pop NMs for seals etc.

You may not like this game right now, But I LOVE IT waaaaaay more than I did before.
This is why I discourage any Old HNM system where exclusive epic gear comes in and I will never get the chance to get the item I want from them.

[Kudlee]

I hate posting ideas (since most of the time my ideas suck), but I thought I'd just throw this out there. I kind of liked it when SE changed some of the old NMs to drop drop the Rare/Ex version of a piece of equipment while an AH-able version was available from battlefields. Heck, you could use the high-kindred's crests for even more battlefields next update that drops top tier gear while also adding new NMs to claim that drop the rare/ex version (and title). Well, just a thought...

[Natenn]

Arlan changed sig to try and act all righteous lol, theres different types of gamers so those 1-6 you posted are your opinion. Gamers are ppl who play games, theres many types: Hardcore, casual, dedicated, good, bad, mediacore, ect. Just because i like something and you don't doesn't make you right or me wrong. Sure you think its fun now, but for ppl who did HNM for years its the same thing bar competition which is the only thing that kept most of "my crowd" as someone so elequently put it playing. Game base has been cut down since abyssea, no competition = ppl get bored/quit.

[Sureal]

no
10 chars

[Natenn]

What you gonna do when new world spawns come out? :)

[Sureal]

no

10chars

[Natenn]

I don't get it, 10 chars what? You are just spamming the same thing.

[Romanova]

10 chars what?

did you really just ask this?

[Natenn]

its a petty attempt at trolling from my perspective

[Sureal]

no

10 chars

[Sureal]

tell you what, i will leave you alone, and stay out of this thread forever, if you say the real reason you want world pop hnm's back

we all know what it is, its been said many many times, and yet you try to say something different everytime, so do this for me, be a man, grow a pair, and man up to what your true intentions are

[Romanova]

its a petty attempt at trolling from my perspective

why don't you try typing "no" and see what happens. It isn't rocket science lol...

[Sureal]

have you read the rest of his posts, i think your asking a lot here

[Romanova]

have you read the rest of his posts, i think your asking a lot here

Touché


10chars

[Sureal]

ball is in your court sir, tick tock tick tock

[Natenn]

The real reason? What on earth are you babbling about? I said i want competition back in the game, no idea what you could be talking about.

[Arlan]

Arlan changed sig to try and act all righteous lol, theres different types of gamers so those 1-6 you posted are your opinion. Gamers are ppl who play games, theres many types: Hardcore, casual, dedicated, good, bad, mediacore, ect. Just because i like something and you don't doesn't make you right or me wrong. Sure you think its fun now, but for ppl who did HNM for years its the same thing bar competition which is the only thing that kept most of "my crowd" as someone so elequently put it playing. Game base has been cut down since abyssea, no competition = ppl get bored/quit.

Your a very delusional individual.
My sig doesn't say "You must be a FPS fan to be a gamer"
My sig doesn't say "You must be an RPG fan to be a gamer"
My sig doesn't tell you what kind of games or styles you should like in order to be considered a gamer.

My Sig simply tells people that gamers play games to enjoy, wether your casual or hardcore, don't matter.
I can be a Hardcore FPS fan but that doesn't mean I want to wait 24-74hours just to get a chance to be next in line to play a round. Heck no. Hard core players want to play not wait and they certainly don't want to waste time doing nothing when they want to play their favorite game/content/challenge/event.

Your brain washed in thinking hardcore players want HUGE time sink elements when the reality is, hard core players want the exact opposite. They want more challenges, accessable challenges and they wana do them as much as they can for how long as they can.

and guess what,

Casual players also want the same thing too. They want accessable contents and challanging contents, but 24-75hour repop is just plain Bull.

Keep deluding yourself with your cult in way of thinking this.
You may be a different gamer than I am, and you may enjoy different styles than I do, But that doesn't change the fact that We both pay to play the game and we both want to log on and play the game.

I want to log on and GAME!
You want to log on when the game tells you to Game.

This doesn't make it a "Different style", this is just a system made to prevent majority to have the schedule to play their game of content they wish to partake.

And if this is the case, I'm missing out on content cause I cannot put my life schedule around "The Game" because you prefer it that way, so people like me are missing contents we pay SE for our monthly payment.

For that, I have to say: NO THANKS.

Like I said, go outside and "Pretend" you are being timed to pop or spawn an NM so it feels like an HNM for you or something. Limit yourself is fine but limiting others so you obtain Epic Gear that no one else can obtain because of the "Time sink, play on the game's schedule only" method, is plain wrong.

[Arlan]

What you gonna do when new world spawns come out? :)

If it comes out, then I consider it useless content and Wont participate in it because I have a life and I got better things to do with my time than waste it with players like you who want to claim it away from me.

Only time I would participate would be when Everyone stops camping them cause they already have it, that way I would have access to enjoy fighting the NM with my friends while hoping to get a drop rate.

But I bet that wont be the case since if it is designed anything like the old FFXI HNM system where everyone keeps doing them cause of low ass drop rates, then I would say "SE, give us a better way to low man this with a Battle Field style event and let us go at it once every game day to avoid such horrible HNM mechanics so everyone can get a chance at it who want to play at their own schedule and not the Game's."

I would continue to do things more worth while of my time even If they Added HNMs cause HNMs where a turn off for me and most who just want to long on and play for fun on their own schedule, makes the game feel more of a chore and a RL job instead.

Game's are made for entertainment purpose, Its made to be fun not to be a Chore.
If you can't get this through ur head, then your not a gamer, your just someone who wants to waste their time on something and you have all the time in the world to waste to show off your epic gear to people who cannot but wish they can devote as much as time as you did.

Again: No thanks

[Arlan]

The real reason? What on earth are you babbling about? I said i want competition back in the game, no idea what you could be talking about.

Go PVP and fight with players in Belista. Thats competition right there.
Majority of the game was designed for players to work together to achieve things together.
But Belista or brenner was designed for pvp purpose.

HNMs where not made for players to compete against each other.
SE stated that their intention was to make it where the HNM pops ever so on so when players explore into new areas and such, they can see powerful new NMs to take on with their LS mates and team when passing by.

But instead, everyone tryed to camp them and even go far to bott them and make it a heavy "Botting sport".

I dont care if you bot or don't bot your claims, But what I do care for is the fact that Players "Having to play the game on the Game's schedule and Not on their own's schedule". This is where Majority of the players who are limited in time for RL not being able to have access to overtake challenges they might want to take for items they want that can cause problems with.

Go play WoW or some other game that is heavily build for PVPing. FFXI was not made for PVP Claim Wars, The community made it that way based on Elitism. (PVP Belista and Brenner where made for fun Competitions not Elitism.)

This is why majority dislike this idea and don't want the old HNM system back.
Good luck trying to get people other wise.

A system Preventing majority of players from fighting NMs or doing enjoyable contents isn't challenging, it is frustrating and annoying. The Challenge is trying to beat the NM with your team successfully since it is a PVE based game, even tho there are some PVP elements like Belista or Brenner.

[Sureal]

we have been over this natenn, you dont want competition, just say it and i will leave forever

say "i want to bottleneck other players"

[Natenn]

I'm not gonna say something that isn't true, i didn't like competition but im not gonna let them stop me from camping thats the whole point.

And Arlan if you are not gonna camp if/when they come then why are you gonna make 3 long posts in a row complaining about now? Being mad over a game when you preach the "RL' card is pretty much hypocrisy at its best.

[Anewie]

This is getting ridiculous. You all said your piece now leave it be. This is Natenns thread and he has every right to post his opinion. You don't have to like it but stop spamming. You don't want world spawns, you've said it time and time again without any intelligent debate or argument. If you're going to contribute to discussion, fine but otherwise, Natenn you should be reporting people.

Everyone has their own opinion and I don't even totally agree with Natenn, but this is Natenns thread to the devs. The same people spamming I DONT WANT THIS/I DO WANT THIS is not going to have any effect. You can say the same thing x100 times but you speak for you and making sure your point is on every page isn't really doing anything.


If you want to have a civilised, intelligent conversation or debate with someone thats fine. I basically said the same thing as Natenn but I don't agree with certain things that he agrees with regarding gear. Throwing insults at eachother is not going to change the direction or minds of the devs and i'm pretty sure if they have any plans of adding/not adding world spawns at any point, it's probably already been considered and decided.

You guys speak for yourself, not the player base. It's always been a larger portion of players who don't enjoy HNM vs those who do. This is not news.The point is, there is a base for this type of content and whether you want to accept it or not, it is not as simple as people having no lives or wanting to block other players. Is natenn someone who does enjoy blocking someone? Maybe but Natenn is a single individual. There are plenty of people who enjoy camping and are simply asking for new rare mobs to compensate for the cap increase.

Personally, I think it has already been decided if they will add more content of such. I don't think it is going to make any difference threads like these that are for/against it.

Heres why, it's not telling SE anything they didn't already know. People had complained about hnms forever, but at the same time a large enough portion enjoyed that type of content for whatever reason, enough to warrant it being supported/added. They gave an interview once and spoke on it and acknowledge people actually enjoy it and thats their priority.

A lot of people do want this type of content, but a lot more don't want it. I don't think people not wanting something warrants it not being implemented. If there is enough want for such content, SE should accommodate. Especially if something whether it be mobs or fixes or adjustment, isn't something that will cripple or cause a lot issues amongst players.

This is where the gray area comes in, because if you make a mob too valuable, its inevitable people will fight/bot over it. There are ways to avoid this WITHOUT doing away with the concept of long/lottery world spawns, and that is the way SE should go to please a wider variety of people.

The concept shouldn't be done away with, but more so adjusted in the ways it was back when WOTG NM came out.

[Sureal]

no, you see we tried to have an intelligent conversation, natenn wont have any of it, so its boiled down to this


sorry, but natenn, you already said you want to have hnm's with gear you cannot get other places, and since you are a god at claiming with your ps2, that means, duh duh duh, you want to bottleneck players


i just want natenn to stop hiding behind his ps2 excuse, and w/e else excuse he has, or whatever other reason today brings, he wants to have gear that others dont have, which is fine, as long as it is obtainable by all, having world spawn hnm's means its not, it means if your not in a botting ls, you are not going to get it, natenn seems to equate gear with skill, see he sees himself as better than others because of a piece of gear he has and wants to make sure no one else can or will get it

i just want him to be a man about it and admit this and i will go away forever, but since i dont see that happening

/setsupcampwithlemonadeandbrats

[Romanova]

I said i want competition back in the game,


i didn't like competition

how counterproductive of you.

[Arlan]

This is getting ridiculous. You all said your piece now leave it be. This is Natenns thread and he has every right to post his opinion. You don't have to like it but stop spamming. You don't want world spawns, you've said it time and time again without any intelligent debate or argument. If you're going to contribute to discussion, fine but otherwise, Natenn you should be reporting people.

Everyone has their own opinion and I don't even totally agree with Natenn, but this is Natenns thread to the devs. The same people spamming I DONT WANT THIS/I DO WANT THIS is not going to have any effect. You can say the same thing x100 times but you speak for you and making sure your point is on every page isn't really doing anything.


I'm sorry but you are wrong.
This thread doesn't belong to the OP.
Because this thread was aimed to the dev by the OP,
Everyone has the right to come in here to agree/disagree and throw in their opinions as much as the OP does.

If you think we are spamming the negative, then guess what, You and the OP are also spamming as well, explaining the same thing over again which majority keep saying they don't want.

Old HNM system needs to die.
If they Revive it, they need a low man BCNM Option that allows any players to be able to get the chance, every 24 hours to obtain KI to enter so players can enjoy the content and challenges who cannot build their RL time around the Game's schedule.

also, the "RL Card" is what SE needs to be looking at, since majority of players who do have lives and can't play the game based on the game's schedule, Pay to play to miss contents and gear they wish to obtain but cannot.

We get our Money to pay monthly in RL.
We go to "WORK" and our RL "Work schedule" is more important than "Game schedule". People log into games to be entertained and to have fun and enjoy it. People don't log into game to do chores and get frustrated and annoyed.

[Natenn]

Did i leave out beating competition is fun when they flip out every day so i can lol at them acting dumb? i must of.

[Natenn]

Idc if they add it to a BC bc i know ppl will still be camping the HNM, and the BC will be even harder or abysmal drop rate since you can spam it, so again: why do you care? We all care about gear you go your way to obtain it and ill go my way to get it. Is it so bad to want to be competitive?

[Arlan]

Also, I think Sureal is a very intellegent person, not only does he not agree with Old HNM system, he actually explains why and he can see as I see what the OP's true intentions are, even if the OP himself doesn't realize it.

Sureal, You can't have an intellegent discussion with these kinds of players, Sorry.
I mean the OP critizied my Sig. He thinks my Sig has something to do with "Different play style" when it has nothing to do with it.

Gamers want to game their game of choice and their game of style.
But waiting 24/74 hours to get another chance at the NM everyone wants is not a "Different style", it is the same as Abyssea NMs that respawn every 10-15 min. You still have to claim the NMs since they are on a timer, the only difference between HNMs that Respawns every 24-74hours and the NMs in abyssea that Respawns every 10-15min is the time it takes for then to Repop. After all, that is why you want an HNM right? To be able to claim things off others?
They already have that choice but you get a quicker respawn timer now, so go enjoy the content there.

What more do you want?

[Arlan]

Idc if they add it to a BC bc i know ppl will still be camping the HNM, and the BC will be even harder or abysmal drop rate since you can spam it, so again: why do you care? We all care about gear you go your way to obtain it and ill go my way to get it. Is it so bad to want to be competitive?

The Drop rate should be equal to the HNM not lower than the HNM.
And you can only spam it once every 24hours while you have the option to do BC and Camp HNM.
So there you go. You still get the bigger advantage while others who don't have time to camp, don't.
But over all, we still get a chance at it and thats what matters.

[Sureal]

wait, natenn, now you dont care if the drops are added to bcnm's, cause i remember you staunchly against that before


oh, i see, because im calling you out on your true intentions you have to change your game up, understood, touche salesman, i too have an uncle

[Arlan]

I have notice that about Natenn as well..
It does get anoyying sometimes.

[Sureal]

oh i know, i stoped with the intelligent part in the last thread he made, he made it abundantly clear that there was no chance of debate on a normal persons level

[Arlan]

That is truly sad.
I don't like wasting time playing game,
I like to enjoy my time playing the game

That is why I got on the thread and put my opinion, as a player, out there.
But when a player starts to change what he/she says to try to debate and ultimately try to win it, is where the problem lyes.

I say OLD HNM system needs to die.
Then I said well if they do make the old HNM system again, they need to make a BC for it that you can spam once every 24hours with equal drop rates for everyone who cannot put RL time camping the HNM to have access to still being able to get the items they want through an enjoyable content.
But that doesnt mean I support HNM system, that is only if SE does make them which I'm hoping not.

[Natenn]

Hey trying to compromise.

[Natenn]

short version: I want HNM pvp, you don't want that. This debate could go on for ages.

[Sureal]

pressure getting to you, people really understand what you are all about, and now you realize that so you have to change your stance

how sad, how sad indeed


so you gonna man up yet, or change your opinion on something else now

[Natenn]

As for Arlans sig, ok ill agree with 1-5 but 6 no. If 6 were true then everyone would have what they wanted and whats to keep you playing after you obtain all? Nothing.

[Natenn]

pressure from what? Im trying to figure out to explain this so that you can comprehend the need for a real endgame, cause everything you preach up is not difficult at all.

[Sureal]

and neither is anything you preach up

[Natenn]

Well then, what do you suggest? Don't see an ideas comming from anyone else.

[Arlan]

SE makes money off the majority.
They make money off pleasing the majority of their customers by giving the majority the access for enjoyable contents.
Some contents are not enjoyable but some are.

It is SE's job to please us on the product we pay for.
It is our Hobbie to play the game that we pay for, Not our Job.

[Sureal]

im not suggesting anything, seeings as im not a game developer nor do i work at SE, i will take the game as they have made it and enjoy it, when they had free spawning world hnm's, i didnt particularly enjoy it, but i did it as that was necessary, and since they have gotten away from that and started changing the game towards a more community friendly and time efficient style, i will take it and run, i love it the way it is now, people are generally more helpful and nice to each other, i can log on and actually get stuff done in a short period of time, i dont have to wake up at 3am just to sit and camp fafnir again, i play on my schedule and i like that

the whole reason im here is to make sure they DONT change back

[Natenn]

There would be so many reactivated accounts if HNM came back, like i said b4 SE is a company, like all companys their aim is to make $$$ am i wrong? Bringing back HNM will bring more paying customers. So by your logic i am correct.

[Arlan]

As for Arlans sig, ok ill agree with 1-5 but 6 no. If 6 were true then everyone would have what they wanted and whats to keep you playing after you obtain all? Nothing.

It doesn't matter what Style of game your into,
If you are a gamer, you log on the game to play to have fun.
The true reason a gamer would play games is to have fun, Not to have ANOTHER CHORE.

Time sink elements are made to prevent players from progressing so SE can keep people going for the same things over and over again so We keep paying the monthly fee.

Gamers play the game for the challenge, The challenge is what is fun about games, not the time sink elements.

For example: You enjoy the challenge of Claiming against other players, but majority dont play this game for that kind of challenge, they play it to play with people to take down the HNM or the NM in general as the real challenge of obtaining gear. But the Time Consuming or TIME SINK element such as "24hour-74hour Repop" is what #6 refers to as an example of such things a gamer doesn't want.

You can still have that same challenge of claiming against other players by going to abyssea and claiming Timed NMs there that repop every 10-15min. The difference is, The time sink is less because it repops every 10-15min NOT 24-75hours, BUT... The Challenge is still there and the same. So just go have fun if that is all you want man cause its already there in abyssea. But asking for HUGE time sink element just takes the fun out of it for players who want to gain access to contents they want to participate as well.

Also, #6 is true because not only what I mentioned above, but the point is everyone would eventually get all the things they want done while SE continues to make More and More content. It is an MMORPG meaning SE can continue adding more contents, better gear, and different battle systems. What keeps players in the game is friends and progression.

I never stayed in FFXI back in the days because of Old Dynamis system or HNM system. Heck no.
I stayed cause I had friends I could play with and I had contents I still enjoyed, and I like teaching new players about this game since I knew a lot about it from years of experience.

What keeps Majority of players playing is progression and SE adding new contents to continue to move forward with friends and LS mates. You can never get everything done in an MMO since an MMO is an Incomplete game and can never be completed since that is the way it is designed to be.

=) There will always be new things to experience for every new update. /cheer

[Sureal]

where are all these players you talk about, i dont know of a single person that would come back just to sit in DA again

[Natenn]

sigh, ill go see what they're up to.

[Natenn]

looks like they went to lolWoW.

[Romanova]

looks like they went to lolWoW.

you honestly think they'd come back because of world spawns? really?


Most of my friends who left FFXI in the first place was because they were sick of world spawns.


I admit, I'm one of them. I came back because one friend who stayed kept telling me how abyssea changed everything. And honestly, I didn't even believe him then, but wanted to change something up because I wanted to take a break from healing on my priest.

Other friends who I've talked to, don't believe it either. They are sick of how much a grind/timesink ffxi was and it's hard to convince them that isn't the case anymore.

I can't imagine at all world spawns would bring people back, it'd more likely make them laugh and think how lucky they are they didn't give abyssea a shot in the first place.

[Anewie]

you honestly think they'd come back because of world spawns? really?


Most of my friends who left FFXI in the first place was because they were sick of world spawns.


I admit, I'm one of them. I came back because one friend who stayed kept telling me how abyssea changed everything. And honestly, I didn't even believe him then, but wanted to change something up because I wanted to take a break from healing on my priest.

Other friends who I've talked to, don't believe it either. They are sick of how much a grind/timesink ffxi was and it's hard to convince them that isn't the case anymore.

I can't imagine at all world spawns would bring people back, it'd more likely make them laugh and think how lucky they are they didn't give abyssea a shot in the first place.

I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!! ;p

[Sureal]

so, why are you still here then

i think that is the question of the day

[Romanova]

I KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!! ;p

:P should have known sooner!

But I am completely serious. I don't want to see this game reverting back to the way it was, as I think that is what will kill it way faster than anything else they could do.

[Natenn]

I still talk to them via skype, at least 5 would be back on my end. And i talked to ppl from other LS who said they a know 15 ppl. so thats 20 ppl right there. Theres probably somewhere in the thousands if 2 ppl can find 20 willing to come back.

[Sureal]

lol uhhhh, no

i was deep in endgame and i know of no one that would come back for that

[Anewie]

Th Devs seem to be avoiding answering the question. All things considered, I think they already have plans for what they want to do and I'm curious about it. I can't see them doing away with the mechanic for good, but I would like to know if they plan to or not. I'm sure the rest of you would like too as well.

I also would like to know what they are going to do regarding the ps2 limitations... But that's another subject they seem to be avoiding, lol.

[Nynja]

I still talk to them via skype, at least 5 would be back on my end. And i talked to ppl from other LS who said they a know 15 ppl. so thats 20 ppl right there. Theres probably somewhere in the thousands if 2 ppl can find 20 willing to come back.

I know 1000 people who quit because of stupid land spawns, but they cant speak up because they quit in disgust with the game and dont want to talk about it.

[Arlan]

I know people who quit the game because they couldn't put THAT MUCH TIME to play this game durring their free time...

I know people who quit the game because their Endgame LS keeps breaking when they have enough LS points to be able to get unfinished AF2s in dynamis or other endgames.

I know people who quit cause they couldn't reach lvl75. (Mainly RDM friends)

I know people who quit cause it took waay to long to get their lvls and felt like they could be playing a better game thats actually more fun on challenges and less on grinding.

I know people who would never participate on HNMs after getting kicked from an HNM LS for not dropping what he/she was doing for someone else's drops.

I know people who wanted items but eventually gave up because there was TOO MUCH TIME SINKs and Very low Challenging elements which made it boring and not worth doing.

I had so many good friends and met so many random players who just were sick of how the game was and quit.
SE is trying to make the game more friendly for their customers who want to game. I support SE for this.
But encouraging the game to go back to what it used to be will only encourage the game to be for the minority.
SE would make better money encouraging gamers to PLAY on their own schedule than encourage minority who have all the time in the world to camp HNMs or other time sinks to prevent majority of the player's enjoyments.

there are many more reasons why a lot of players quit, HNMs are defiantly one of them.
I don't log on to afk for window. I Log on to play the Game! If I'm being encouraged not to play but wait for window, then there is a problem.

A gamer wants to play games, Not afk and do something else because the game does NOT allow them to Play.

A Gamer doesn't want to be FORCED to play their game, They want to CHOOSE to play their game when they want too. The old HNM system FORCED you to get on the game on a certain time to get a chance at "Claiming" HNM which sucked.

Keep in mind, Not everybody wants to waste time playing a game.
Majority just wants to enjoy their time playing a game.

[Natenn]

you don't 1,000 ppl where you pull that # from? Also i don't really think ppl would quit bc of HNM, not enough to sway a decision anyway. Quit bc you can't claim if you want, im not a quiter.

btw REAL gamers take on any and all challenges, they don't QQ when they can't win, the get better.

[Sureal]

god natenn, you are either the troll of the century, or just the most incredibly dense individual to ever walk the earth, i cant tell yet, but i have a feeling its a little of both

[Nynja]

I'm surprised you havent said that overall subscribers are down compared to 2005 and said its because they made world spawns less relevant...

[Arlan]

btw REAL gamers take on any and all challenges, they don't QQ when they can't win, the get better.

Actually this is not always true.
Real Gamers play games they enjoy. They play Challenging contents they enjoy.
If a game is SHITTY or has SHITTY CONTENTS that people hate/dislike because of a time limitations designed to prevent majority from playing, then it doesn't matter what challenges it provides, Real gamers will hate it for what it is doing. "Preventing them from even getting access to the challenge".

Real gamers dont waste time playing games.
Real gamers enjoy their time playing games.

If the challenge is a waste of time, then the content is trash.

To me, it seems you are more of a person who wants to encourage wasting time playing a game rather than putting time enjoying a game.

The main reason why ppl did HNMs is not for the thrill, but the opportunity to be able to get the items they want or need. Instead of deluding yourself with trash, I suggest you enjoy the claim wars with the 10-15min repop NMs in abyssea since that seems to be the challenge you enjoy the most, or play another game that is purely designed for PVP.

[Natenn]

why would i wanna waste my time on NM that pops 96x a day? It hasn't the value i seek.

[Raksha]

why would i wanna waste my time on NM that pops 96x a day? It hasn't the value i seek.

You'd have to try REALLY hard to waste time on an NM that pops ninety-six times per day.

Just saying.

[Arlan]

why would i wanna waste my time on NM that pops 96x a day? It hasn't the value i seek.

Are you that dumb?
Just because it pops like 96x a day doesn't make it not valuable.
NMs that pop like that in abyssea, drops really valuable things to upgrade AF3s, atmas, and other nice accessories that helps build up your character.

Also, the "CHALLENGE" you want is to compete with other players in claiming NMs, well there you can do that AS MUCH AS YOU WANT ~ because it pops 96x a day.

If you don't think abyssea NMs drop valuable things, DONT GET THEM and STAY GIMPED.
We'll just have better gear than you will and be able to play better as we progress.

What you are asking for "HNMs that repop 24-74hours" is a TRUE Waste of time!"
You now have access to "CLAiM WAR" with people on NMs that repop every 10-15min without Actually "Wasting time".

Don't Confuse "Time sink Elements" with "Challenge Elements".
Both are completely different things.

Asking for 24-74hours for HNM to repop in game for rare items are Time Sink elements, Not challenges. And it is the worst Kind of time sink out there since Not everyone will have the RL time to participate to work on getting their items. Not everyone can log on game anytime they want for One chance at claiming and One chance at killing such thing.

IT is NOT Worth the value to camp 24-74hour HNM since its a video game and having to play around a Game's schedule for a piece of data is idiotic unless you got no life and can play video games 24/7 and have Nothing better to do but waste time.

Sureal is right about you.
You just want to get items that very few people have the time to get so you can show it off on others to feel "Special".
Well I'm glad SE is taking a new direction on this cause I'm tiered of your kind ruining the game.
Give all Gamers equal access to enjoy contents and enjoy challenges!

[Sureal]

hed rather waste time by sitting in one spot doing nothing for 3 hours, then moving to another spot and sit there to do nothing for 3 hours, and so on and so on and so on

[Ravenmore]

Real gamers they dont see claiming a HNM as content. You may not had used a bot but thier most likly was one in your LS. Ground HNM ls was the biggest scam in the game next to dyna only LSs.If every single one of the people that enjoyed camping HNM quit the game we wouldn't loss anything of value.For every 1 player that like it there was 100 that wouldn't go near HNM.

[Natenn]

Abyssea is'nt real endgame. Endgame is supposed to be hard, nothing is hard in abyssea, even if there was no brew it can all be done quite easily if you prepare. Nothing in this game right now poses any real difficulty. The only things that were ever real endgame was Lv75 cap AV/PW and claiming HNM, Bar AV i killed claimed everything even Vrtra w/o cheap zerg method or 40 bodys to toss at it. Those things were fun for me, just like w/e it is you do now you think its the greatest thing ever. Thats fine i don't really care to much what others want added/think is fun its your opinion. Im not asking devs to make it so it HAS to be camped but i at least want it so it will be camped. Einherjar deal didn't bug me i still did both and seen ppl who quit HNM get stuff and seen ppl wipe repeatedly to T1 wing.

[Natenn]

Though id laugh at them for failing T1 with over 24 ppl lol

[Arlan]

Though id laugh at them for failing T1 with over 24 ppl lol

LoL
I have a challenging game for you then.
The Penalty of Death sucks too since it is soo challenging.
Here, Check This is game out:

http://blog.codefront.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/outside_mmorpg.jpg

[Ravenmore]

Only thing hard about ground was claiming lol so whats your point. I'm sorry anything RMT can muti-box kill is not hard.AV was a BS mob from the start. Its trick coulda been work out faster if SE didn't word it poorly saying that locking its 2hours was a glitch. So everytime it came up even USING THE MATCHING 2HOUR it was shot down. Not to mention that if your not sitting right next to SE's data center and wait for it to show in the log it was already to late to lock.

You and the other 20 people can have all that you want the rest of us are tired of it. If people were farming tier 4 znm they damn sure were not going to give the PW pop items to the LS they were making mystics. If the LS made you give up those then it was simple find another LS that didn't. Sure other groups would love getting gear they didn't have go pic farming for.

Another thing they didn't change any of the other ground HNM just the kings. Go try to solo them or duo. If they make it were the gear they drop is equel to other gear you'll lose the "I claimz gewd".

also your not elite just elitist jerk.

[Sureal]

av shouldnt even be included in here
pw was beaten at 75, and with the right strat, was not hard
claiming is not an actual component of endgame, claiming is a byproduct of a bad system


and im still caught up on the fact that you obviously hate this game, SO WHY DO YOU STILL PLAY, go away and let us have our fun

[Romanova]

The only things that were ever real endgame was Lv75 cap AV/PW and claiming HNM,

good thing that AV and PW were world spawns that we had to camp for 3 hours everyday amirite?

[Natenn]

Gosh you guys are so mad lol. I don't want the same things you do so you call me names, where did i say i "hated" the game? I'm an elitist jerk cause i'm more skilled that the average perle/aurore/teal John/Jane Doe? Because i'm successful at HNM you're gonna hate on me? You throw around all these accusations and say i have no life, where is your evidence? You have none, you just feel threatened by HNM cause you couldn't claim so you wanna put yourselves up on a pedestal and attack anyone and anything that doesn't fall in line with the "easy mode endgame" that you love so much.

[Sureal]

i couldnt claim....

ummmm, i claimed prolly more than you and your ls combined


you keep throwing around "easy mode endgame", tell me, what was so hard about "endgame" before, and dont say claiming, dynamis? simple, my ls was clearing zones, land kings? my ls was going for speed records, cerb/khim? again, going for speed, einherjar? uhhhh, yeah, pretty simple, DI/sandworm? lol useless

and yes i do say you hate the game, because you come here whining and complaining about THE FREAKING GAME, you have yet to say you like anything about what the game has become, you want the game to go back to what it was, that tells me, you dont like the game as it is now

[Alderin]

If you want world-pop HNM's just go camp Guku or Tunga for your guilty pleasures..

[Sureal]

let me take this one natenn, your brain must be getting tired

natenn "i want hard fights, that is "easy mode endgame""
me "wait, i thought it was the claiming that you wanted"
natenn "no its the titles"
me "wait, you just said...."
natenn "I WANT GEAR"
me "uhhhh"
natenn "im just gonna keep spewing the same things over and over and over"
me "i know, thats why im doing it for you now"
natenn "LEAVE ME ALONE, ILL GET ALL 8000 PEOPLE THAT WILL COME BACK FOR HNM'S AND THEY WILL DESTROY YOU"
me "ok, who are they"
natenn "hold on, let me get them on skype"
me "youre dumb go away now"
natenn "WHERE ARE MY WORLD POP HNM'S"
me "dot dot dot"



i think that about sums up this and his last thread, can someone lock this thread already, i feel as though im losing brain cells just by reading natenn's regurgitations

[Ravenmore]

We could claim but why go though the hell of siting in one spot for 3 hours just get a chance at claiming. KS99s were a better measure of a LS then kings were. With those no one could ever say you botted the claim and were not any were as easy as old ground kings. What we are saying and your not getting is the fights of the old world spam HNM was easy mode endgame. Even people that could claim at a high rate got sick of stting in that same sot over and over for a 1 to 5% chance to even see the drop that half the ls was after.

[Natenn]

I highly doubt you claimed more then i did bar kings, but anyway back on topic, would really like a release date of the next installment of world spawn HNM if you devs could offer any info on the matter.

Donno how SW/DI were useless when it funded my Aegis and half my Excalibur before abyssea ruined it.

Edit: stop hating ok?

[Sureal]

wait, so i thought it was for "TEH CHALLENGE" that you fought these nm's, but really it was for gil

so thats what youre really mad about, DEY TOOK UR JOOOOORBS

greed and elitism, thats what youre all about, got it

[Natenn]

Talk about greed but you only want things one way, got it.

[Sureal]

says the person who wants the old way back, gotcha

[Natenn]

says the person who thinks abyssea is hard, i will note this event.

[Sureal]

when did i ever say abyssea was hard, look if youre going to "troll" me, you have to try harder than putting words in my mouth

abyssea is fun, i realize you dont like fun, but everyone else in this game does

[Anewie]

Meh. You guys are all just saying the same thing and it really doesn't change anything. No one knows what the devs will do. I think this thread was intended as more of a question thread? I made one myself and it did NOT turn out like this. Why all the fighting?

Both sides have good and bad points. Natenn, I'm all for world rare mobs, but I think there would be serious rage if great gear went back to being exclusive to HNM. Idk about you, but I just don't wanna hear it. I am like you in a sense that I am sick to death of people who don't enjoy what I enjoy, complaining and whining to get their way. I honestly say, give them an alternate method of obtaining gear so everyone can enjoy the type of content they enjoy, without having it depend on luc. Claiming or camping NMs is luck. I love it just like you, it's a rush but it truly is unfair to people who cannot dedicate large amounts of time, if they simply are doing it for the gear and not the fun aspect.

I am asking SE to add more rare world spawn because it's simply a joy to me. I love competing, love the luck aspect and I like the trophy drops. They mean more to me than items that are easier to get because they have a specialness about them. What I absolutely don't want, if 5-6 shells or groups botting to claim mobs and it turning into massive rage. I loved the drama because it was entertaining but we can keep the entertaining value aspect of that part of the game without forcing others who DON'T enjoy it, to do it.


There are plenty of people who sincerely enjoy that content and they make up a large enough fraction to warrant it being looked into. By looking into, I mean by taking time to decide what is best for both sides. Arlan I'm sorry, but your views on the gamer are just that. What you view as wasting time, isn't wasting time. I've been respectful of other peoples opinions and I tend to not want to tell someone else what their idea of fun is. I am (or was) a gamer and I agree with some of what you said, but you are basically saying I enjoy time sinks, cheating or blocking people. I'm sorry I enjoy things you don't but the fact is, you aren't anymore worthy of content you enjoy than me. The line should be drawn when I can possible prevent you from making progress. I want SE to adds means for you to get shit done, while still offering me that type of content I enjoy and there is nothing wrong with that. You cannot have everything and neither can I. We both deserve a chance though.

Sureal, I'm not sure if this is surreal from Valefor but you know tony i assume. I liked Tony. He was nice to me and I'll admit I never played with him, He seemed like a good player and was well spoken in my conversation with him. Your opinions seem completely opposite of Natenn. Everyone is entitled to their own Goddang opinion.

I'm not a hater but can everyone please stop with the personal attacks? It's embarrassing and i doubt the devs will respond with this type of nonsense. This is natenns thread but if you are so dead set on asking the devs to not add more world spawns, add a thread requesting it. Trolling the thread, which is not even a request thread, but a question thread is annoying and I'm talking to everyone.


You're all turning this thread into mindless complaining and neither side is really wrong. It comes down to whats fair and unfair to everyone.

[Azagthoth]

Ultimately, it boils down to the fact that Natenn would rather be doing other stuff while the game makes gil and gets gear for him. It's funny that he doesn't even classify abyssea as an event (it's easy); however, it requires you to actively play the game, whereas world spawns don't. And, I would have to say that the world spawns he wants back were easier, because they required less work.

You can defend yourself with "I play on PS2" all you want, but unless the rest of your LS members are Starcade clones it doesn't matter.

You can still make quite a bit of gil in Abyssea, but it requires that you actively play the game for the most part, which you're obviously against.

[Sureal]

no, im not from valefor, im from bahamut where tony is originally from, and yes, tony talks a big game, and acts all nice, but the guy is a tool, raped his ls for all he could, took gear from other more deserving players, had damn near full koenig and valor gear before his pld was even past lvl 60, took adaberk for his bst over drks and wars, worked his entire ls for more than one relic for himself and none for anyone else

[Natenn]

HNM were fun

[Ravenmore]

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

[Anewie]

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

Comments like these are kinda rude. Although Natenns comments on noobs and what should be considered the best and where should come from and how much effort one should put into it, are questionable. Comments like these are nothing short of one sided and small minded.

Just cause you don't enjoy certain things doesn't mean others don't, and like I told Arlan what you consider fun and entertaining might not be as entertaining to others.

Some of you need to get rid of your sense of entitlement. I really find it quite funny. Sure, game shouldn't revolve around luck tactics and it shouldnt encourage cheating, but some of come off nothing short of absent minded.

Your argument isn't really any better than Natenns. It's just the opposite of what he's asking.. Players thinking they are better than others and are more entitled to things to fit their way. Because someone enjoys things you don't, something must be wrong with them or the system. Then theres people who think they only deserve the best and the only way anyone should be rewarded with what they have, is to be like them. It's basically the same thought process from both sides.

Neither side is right. The only thing anyone is entitled to is their opinion and everyone should respect each others opinion. Does that mean one person isnt really ridiculous, rude or silly? Course not. But this is a community board and It really is laughable some of you start calling people like myself names and saying what I enjoy is stupid. I have every right to be irritated and tell said person to piss off.

If you don't like the content of the game. Freakin quit. This game has been around for 9+ years and only within the last year has game really changed. In my opinion, it was a good change because the game was too one sided but this is an opinion. It's only a fact in the sense that it was a better change for certain people. Some people who don't even enjoy hnm, hate the direction. Does that make them a xxxx? a yyyy? No, it's just a difference in taste.

Hows this! Let's see if everyone in this thread can agree to disagree. If someone has a concern or statement they'd like the make, THEY CAN MAKE A THREAD and speak directly to the devs.

I am someone who would like a dev to respond to natenns question and that doesn't make me anything but a concerned member of the board. If you've already stated your opinion, let's stop the personal attacks ok? Natenn I would suggest you start making good use of reporting people. This was a reasonable question many people would like answered, whether they like the content or not. I really wanna know what they plan to do in regards to world NMs.

To the rest of you, if you really feel like flaming natenn or world hnm, make a thread for it and all the people who support you can come in and like the post and guys can reach your target audience, which is the devolopers.

There are plenty of thread asking the devs about xx content and this isnt any different. It's just a controversial subject. I hope SE approaches it similar to the past NMs, while continuing to offer more casual friendly gaming for others. More than anything I'd like to know a simple answer about the future of the game. I've quit anyway and Don't have any plans to return atm. My opinion matters less I suppose.

You all have a wonderful evening :) ! Enjoy the game. It;'s what its there for. Complaining about the uncertain is kinda waste of energy. Besides, I highly doubt things will ever go back to the way they were.

also, just ask ksandra, natenn or leon, I'm not a bitch :P

I'm actually really sweet in game and on bg! Te hehe XD

[Azagthoth]

I'm pretty sure that most people aren't against World Spawns being added, as long as the other content is available elsewhere, as it's been stated in numerous times already in the thread; however, depending on the difficulty of the other content it may make camping the World Spawns nothing more than a novelty; if you can get the gear from other events it'll ultimately be less valuable and Natenn won't be able to fund his relics.

It's a pretty delicate balance, but maybe they could come up with something that will work out and won't alienate the vast majority of the players.

[Nynja]

Trophy items should be exactly that, trophy items. Stuff that looks good, unique, but average stats.

Hauteclaire and Seveneyes are good examples. Haute was pretty garbage, but it looked nice. Seveneyes has a unique model as well. The drop rate is atrocious though for whatever reason...

[Ravenmore]

What nat is asking for is the greatest level of entitlement. I lost all respect for many people camping ground a long time ago. Many of these people are also the ones complaining about how the new dyna works, cause now they can't control other players. THAT is all it comes down too. Why then did people leave HNM LSs as soon as it was found you did't need them anymore people in HNM ls were not all your friend and most for out for them selfs. They would get everything the wanted and leave of if they were leaders get everything they wanted and break the shell. World spawns with high respawn timers breads this and if any one is too naive to see it well then the get what they get.

ToAU beastman king were never camp and kill once in a great moon for some one working on mystic, that some one might had to have merc. Jermy was never camped and had the same 24 hour repop, same goes for vetra. You know why these HNM were not camp they drop nothing that HNM leaders could use to control the minons with. This is why only a very small handful of people want 24 hour world spawn NMs back and why 99% of the player base is happy its gone. How many people had to buy items off HNM LSs that the LSs were maxed out on already.

The only thing people are upset with with the way kings work now is the low drop rate on HQ pop items and that the NQ lost thier BB items. If they add the BB items back to the NQ half the people complaining would be happy and the other half would have more chances of picking up a free HQ pop.

The devs need to see that only the very few surport this so they don't get it in thier heads that people really want this.

[Anewie]

What nat is asking for is the greatest level of entitlement. I lost all respect for many people camping ground a long time ago. Many of these people are also the ones complaining about how the new dyna works, cause now they can't control other players. THAT is all it comes down too. Why then did people leave HNM LSs as soon as it was found you did't need them anymore people in HNM ls were not all your friend and most for out for them selfs. They would get everything the wanted and leave of if they were leaders get everything they wanted and break the shell. World spawns with high respawn timers breads this and if any one is too naive to see it well then the get what they get.

ToAU beastman king were never camp and kill once in a great moon for some one working on mystic, that some one might had to have merc. Jermy was never camped and had the same 24 hour repop, same goes for vetra. You know why these HNM were not camp they drop nothing that HNM leaders could use to control the minons with. This is why only a very small handful of people want 24 hour world spawn NMs back and why 99% of the player base is happy its gone. How many people had to buy items off HNM LSs that the LSs were maxed out on already.

The only thing people are upset with with the way kings work now is the low drop rate on HQ pop items and that the NQ lost thier BB items. If they add the BB items back to the NQ half the people complaining would be happy and the other half would have more chances of picking up a free HQ pop.

The devs need to see that only the very few surport this so they don't get it in thier heads that people really want this.

Where do you get the notion "very few support this"? The same 4-5 people replying? Why dont u try making a poll like the ones on the other community sites. Beause according to those (which are MORE open and post friendly than this forum) 1 in every 3-4 people do want some form of new world NM/HNM. Using this forum as a way to speak for the entire community is a flawed notion because quite a few people don't like the rules of these forums and don't post. I'd like to know where you get this evidence so VERY few support it? Besides posters in a thread, which make up no more like 7-10 different people at most?

Or are you just stating things without factual evidence? Heres a fact check for you. You don't speak for the community and if we are going to claim something, we should let the devs do the investigating. Saying very few like this comment is an overstatement.

As the two previously stated before you, people aren't against world spawns and items that dropped from like khim or cerbw were still heavily camped and fun. Those were trophy items and something like that is as far as it should go. They did this before with kings/einherjar, and everyone was happy to an extent. The game is easier now and you only need a part of 6-10 to ace chambers. It didnt stop people from doing kings or hnm at 85. That only stopped at 90.

[Ravenmore]

Those NMs you sbrought up drop craft items for high demand HQ items so no they were not camped for fun. hydra was never camp since it drop nothing of any value. Why did we get pop kings, cause the player base kept asking for it. Thats the proof right there.

[Arlan]

For what 5 mins if you took it slow lol. So 5mins out of 3 hours was fun, wow you really enjoyed that.

Ravenmore has an excellent point.

Also, like I said before:
Gamers don't like to waste time playing games.
Gamers like to put time to enjoy playing games.
Gamers want to progress in games they put their time/effort in.

Your not a gamer if you just want something to waste your time in.
Gamers want to game to have fun.
People have fun seeing progressions and having access to contents that are enjoyable.

I'm not telling you "What style" of game you have to like to be a gamer,
I'm not telling you "You must like this content in order to be a gamer" either,

I'm telling you why I disagree with the OP because I'm a gamer like majority of players who long on to play with their friends, and I want to game when I want to game. I don't wont a content that I am excluded in because I have to play on the game's schedule. I wana be able to play on my own schedule with my friends, and I know so many people do too that is why they dislike this useless thread and the OP who posted it.

Btw, You sound like your the nice guy but in reality, your just as deluded as the OP, Anewie.
This game is made for the majority, not for the minority.
Majority are gamers who want to play video games on their free time with friends, they don't want to play this game as another JOB or another Real life.

People play games to get their heads out of the Real world and just enjoy a form of entertainment with others.
Games are not made to be your 2nd Life, they are made for players to "PLAY" for "FUN".

If your not a gamer, go waste your time doing something else.

[Octaviane]

Real gamers they dont see claiming a HNM as content. You may not had used a bot but thier most likly was one in your LS. Ground HNM ls was the biggest scam in the game next to dyna only LSs.If every single one of the people that enjoyed camping HNM quit the game we wouldn't loss anything of value.For every 1 player that like it there was 100 that wouldn't go near HNM.

Finally. A statement I can completely agree with. Thank you Ravenmore. I like that I might now have a real chance to go play with Faf/Nidhogg/Behemoth/Turtle etc without having to sign over my real life to do so to some scambag HNMls.

[Natenn]

Im asking for something that results in victory over competition, thats the thrill "my kind" of ppl are looking for. The only thing that provided that to date were HNM. Theres no glory to be found in XI atm, nothing is that hard to be proud about when you complete a goal with the exception of relics which is nowhere near what it use to mean. How easy it to obtain twilight gear/abyssea drops? An idiot could get them with little to no effort? Heck i solo 80 Briareus helms in under 2 weeks combined for Kanagi/Almace(got help last 20 to finish faster). Ppl defend abyssea for 2 main reason: 1. Its easy to exp & 2. little is required to reap the big rewards. Point out something in game thats actually difficult and has reward enough to go through the hassle of doing it.

[Natenn]

Also Ram the 99%(which i doubt) player base is whats left, if HNM were around that 99% would go back to the original 50%ish or less. Like i said, servers were /shutdown due to lack of ppl.

[Ravenmore]

Really the thrill of that. People love out claiming people so much thats why they mkade bots. People quit cause they got tired of sitting in a camp for 3 hours a day for a chance. X-play, game mags, game shop employees would bash FF11 for the very system you want back.So that right there kill off many player that might have given the game a try but seen they would make little progress. Out claiming is all you had the mobs were weak anyone that could listen and not get hate from behind them could kill them. Even the hard HNM no one did them since nothing drop of value. It still comes around to your mad that you can nolonger control people. Most HNM lses have died, not because people quit the game but they were sick of LSes ruling thier in game time and now they don't need them.

[Natenn]

I'm not mad, i think you are with long drawn out posts putting me down. Wheres the Xplay thing at? On youtube? Not saying i don't believe you but i wanna see it.

[Azagthoth]

Natenn, it's pretty clear from your posts that you don't care about the "thrill" of the claim either. You just want the game to go back where you could play the game for 10 minutes and make millions of gil for killing an easy mob.

You're right about one thing though. The world is full of lazy people; therefore, I'm sure quite a few people would return.

[Ravenmore]

The last one I saw was ToAU bashed the hell out of the game, don't even think they bothered with WoTg. I not putting you down I making sure the devs see not everyone is into dranking the koolaid HNMLS leaders would have all the minons do.

[Natenn]

Don't let shady ppl be leaders or be in charge of LS $ distribution then? I've had my share of leaders making off with LS banks of 200-300M in gil hopping servers and buying relics for themselfs, didn't happen again after the 2008 incident. Other then that we were all well compensated in gil ranging from 5M-20M a person. As for "lazy" ppl, lazy didn't cut it at SW/DI not on pandy or asura. Had to spam widescan and stay alert for 4hrs tops.

[Natenn]

Love how no one could point out what "real" challenges are left. There isn't any.

[Azagthoth]

HNMs aren't challenging, as people have pointed out continuously in this thread. Claiming isn't challenging either. Depending on the mechanics of the NM it's usually just dumb luck or whoever has the most people or the best bots.

You don't want a real challenge. You just want a convenient way to make gil.

[Natenn]

Proof? where? you think i just wanna make gil? Maby i think you just want everything to be a ??? thats easy to kill, just saying. Stop bashing HNM, me and alot of other ppl enjoyed them. Just because you didn't don't make it right to kill them off.

[Ravenmore]

They have even killed it off more with void watcher were leaders can't even control who gets drops and that is by far the best. The few people that did enjoy it had thier time in the sun oh for 7 years.

[Arlan]

They have even killed it off more with void watcher were leaders can't even control who gets drops and that is by far the best. The few people that did enjoy it had thier time in the sun oh for 7 years.

Ya I agree. I'm really glad SE is giving us all a chance to be able to obtain our items based on how much work we put rather than how much time Leaders can manipulate from hard working players.

Good work SE!

Also, Natenn, the Proof your looking for is right under your nose,
Everyone who is against this sees it but you.
How can we prove something to someone who is so blind in every aspect people point out?

=) Can't wait for more exciting updates from SE now.

[Natenn]

Kinda boring to me but i guess you guys don't like thrills, carry on!

[Arlan]

Kinda boring to me but i guess you guys don't like thrills, carry on!

Kinda boring not being able to play and progress...

I like the thrill of being able to log on and kick some NMs ass and being able to progress with friends when I have the time.

Boring when a leader has to tell who gets what and you do events for nothing but someone else's gain.
Boring when you log on a game to do something, and people try to prevent you from being able to have access on doing contents you want with your friends online.
Boring when you log on to do an NM you need and want, but the NM is not available because you could not log on time on the game's schedule in order to participate.

FUN being able to play the game when you want.
FUN being able to progress as you put time on events you want.
FUN being able to have access on contents you wish to participate in.
FUN when you got friends to do things with.

Sorry, I'm just a gamer who loves gaming a lot. I can't help it.
But If you don't have fun in FFXi then consider quitting maybe?

I just don't support going back to the old roots of FFXI since it was boring to me not having contents and all.
Most of the contents I couldn't even participate in. But now it is a total different story. I'm glad I'm able to have fun and participate like anyone else can on events I want to do for stuff I need and want.

<3 SE <3

[Natenn]

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait!

[Runespider]

I cannot believe that Square would be so stupid to add world spawn HNM of any kind again, they were the games biggest failure and the worst embarassment for the dev team. This includes all HNM, including sandworm and DI.

I can think of a handful of bot creators that made a living off the HNM scene and that was a slap in the face for Square. The devs openly said multiple times they just could not counter botters and in that situation you just do it a different way, which is what they did.

I know OP is just trolling and good luck to him, but if there is even the slightest thought they would repeat the same mistakes again the last faf/nin/kings update should put rest to that. If they saw any value in it they would of increased the level of the mobs and gone with that not make it a force pop system, making that bastion of oldschool FFXI force spawn shows the mindset better than any official replies you care to read.

The best you can hope for if you loved HNM is ones that respawn in 10-20 mins.

[Vold]

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait! Everything you list as boring could have been said before Abyssea ever reared it's head. Sitting in one zone for hours grinding sky. Sea. Dynamis. I can go on. Watching a low man group kill Tia or anything over you. Seeing everyone in the end game scene basically have the same gear and the difference today is casuals are thrown into the mix. And heaven forbid we have gear that matches for a change and a THF looks like a THF and a BST looks like a BST.

Now don't get me wrong. There's nothing like NM camping to get the blood pumping. But when it is tailored made to bot, it pretty much kills the point of doing it. I've gone up against bots in my time. It is 99% pointless to bother. And the occasional claim by you on DI or whatever does not magically mean you are a champion claimer over bots or that bots didn't matter. Bots aren't fool proof but they're pretty damn close. The fact is, HNM is a game of money, and once people crossed that line of botting, they could never go back, especially when it would just mean they lose claims to the other LSs and ultimately lose money. Money that funded their bleeping gimp relics that they cared so much about. People took it seriously enough to buy programs and characters to aid them in claiming. And these people were at the top of the food chain for many years until Abyssea showed up.

Facts are facts, man. Bots drove out the masses in the end game scene for years. Single LSs would brag day in and out about all the HNMs they botted and claimed for the month after the cat was let out of the bag. It was used as ammo for shouting matches. Your LS was not immune to it's wrath. Yet you claim that you were immune. That you did what no one else could do, fight bots and win, because of lol skills. You'll have us believe that your LS without the aid of computer technology ruled supreme in end game, and that your entire reasoning for wanting more of the old is for purely the thrill of claiming a HNM over another person(btw the thrill of it comes from the drops, and eventually the money but we'll pretend I didn't just say that to blow your cover) Okay. Right. Sure. Whatever. I suppose it's possible. It's certainly not impossible.

But seriously, just admit you want easy money again. Nothing wrong with that. People respect bluntness. They don't respect being told that they just suck at claiming against bots like it's rocket science or something to spam a macro at a HNM camp for a minute every 30 minutes for 3 hours, or to spam WS for SW/DI. The so called "fun" aspect you keep preaching about is getting paid big gils for HNM drops so you can buy your overpriced items that you'd never get by regular means. It's that simple. Just admit it and this debate will end, and whether people would admit it or not they will respect you for being straight up about this. We all know there is only one reason to continue camping HNM after you get what you want gear wise: money. It's damn fun when you can get expensive items easily by being paid countless millions of gil for 20 minutes of work a few times a day. And when SE took that away from your LS you lost however many members or whatever the deal is and I'm quite certain most of them would come back if they could make easy millions again, NOT because they get some thrill of claiming a virtual monster over other people. The thrill is great but it will never be great enough to dictate people quitting the game. Ever. End game is business, period. SE took that away and lots of hardcore players quit over it.

Why did you stop camping old content after Abyssea? Ah yeah that's right, the money was no longer there. So long thrills! I hope you burn in HELL. I rest my case. And I personally would support 24 hr HNM any day of the week... if it was FAIR. But it's not. So it's pointless except to give players a big payday so they don't have to slave away on lesser means to buy their crappy trophy relics. That's not reason enough to invest man hours into timed HNM imho. The concept was awesome. The players ruined it. SE moved on. Expect them to continue moving on.

[Daremo]

I'm amazed how long this topic has carried on based one one person's refusal to remove their nostalgia goggles. The resounding opinion seems to be, "Thank god it's dead, let's burn the corpse and scatter the ashes to make absolutely sure."

Remember the days of the Bubonic Plague? Ah, you really felt alive when everyone was keeling over around you. And those cheery calls of, "Bring out your dead!", how I miss those!

The past is past, it sucked, and it's over. Stop wishing it back. Let's all move on.

[Coldbrand]

No thanks, botters can go rot and cry about the death of their monopoly on this game.

[Arlan]

Outclaiming competition wasn't boring for me. If you claimed alot you would probably have a different opinion on the matter. Maby you should consider getting better at the game maby?

Boring is sitting in 1 zone for hours on end spamming/grinding KIs for emps.
Boring is watching an alliance in abyssea take 5x longer to kill stuff then you would.
Boring is those same ppl all wearing full teal/Aurore/Perle w/e.

Fun is doing something that you want to do.
Fun is winning at the game.
Fun is defeating the competition.

Im not quiting bc i know world spawns will be back eventually, maby not in the old sense but in some form they will be back. I can't wait!

Your one messed up individual lol

[Natenn]

So devs, when will there be new world spawn HNM?

[Bumbeen]

They gave you the answer when they changed the kings to force pop.

[Nynja]

So devs, when will there be new world spawn HNM?

If they add new world spawns with unique, nice looking but completely useless drops, would you camp it?

[Zaknafein]

They nuke the thread you made over at ffxiah today?

[Natenn]

appears so, bc ppl start crying.

[Olden]

I do some what agree with Sureal on this one, the old endgame camping did keep alot of people busy. If people are quiting the game becuse there is a lack of interest, then the only solusion would be for SE to add more contant. This is what there doing is it not? If your friends like the game, but find nothing it lacking promise because they cant camp an HNM for 20+ hours at a time then they have way to much time on there hands, or can't find much in the game to do. Then again there where problems with this..... The person that works 30-50hours a week at work would find it hard to advance to better gear on a game they played. Just remember we also pay for the game, why should we be stuck not getting gear, just because we have "real" over "online" responsabilities. Making obligations on a video game that can cause problems in real life is not being responsable.....

Also, there are still HNM's only the 3 old kings are popable. SE doing this didn't really do much, a majority of people that where camping these HNM's already had there gear. Most LS's where just killing the HNM's to finish 1-2 items people wanted and to keep the HNM away from the other LS's.

Finally, yes botting was a horrid issue, and with PS2 being the laggest pile in the world im sure your Sureals friend only got claim when peaople where asleep. I played on PS2 for 2yrs, and I pitty anyone stilll haveing to play on that ><

[Natenn]

Thats the point though, whats the point of a company producing something that doesn't keep/attract customers? They want us to keep paying the fee which generates revenue for them, all the content now casuals can be done with in a month or less. If they don't add something to keep ppl interested they'll be forced to shut down more servers till the game is gone.

[Zaknafein]

If PvP is introduced in a new format (say in the WG coliseum) That would go a long way toward retaining older bored players as well. Personally I am a fan of both PvP, and HNM so I would be ecstatic to see both by 99. In a dream world where I made the rules there would be a zone dedicated to several smaller NM's, and 1-2 large 24hr pop types, and the zone would also be open PvP. Imagine the shitstorm, and drama that would emanate from that place. It would be glorious, and I can assure you it would never be empty!

[Sureal]

why are you still here if you hate this game so much, good lord

[Natenn]

If PvP is introduced in a new format (say in the WG coliseum) That would go a long way toward retaining older bored players as well. Personally I am a fan of both PvP, and HNM so I would be ecstatic to see both by 99. In a dream world where I made the rules there would be a zone dedicated to several smaller NM's, and 1-2 large 24hr pop types, and the zone would also be open PvP. Imagine the shitstorm, and drama that would emanate from that place. It would be glorious, and I can assure you it would never be empty!

This is relevant to my interests!

[Natenn]

why are you still here if you hate this game so much, good lord

Put the hateraid away plz, work on that kanaggi instead of assuming you know how i feel about things.

[Sureal]

im pretty sure i know how you feel about things, as you have been crying throughout this and your other thread about not being able to have world spawning hnm's, or was it that there is no challenge, or was it that you cant make gil anymore, or was it that titles should be for "elite" players, or was it some other thing


i forget what your crying about now, can you update me please?

oh yeah, fyi, i have brought former hnmls cohorts of mine back to the game cause its fun now, hows that working out for you, i mean it does go COMPLETELY against what you have been preaching about how there are these millions of people you have on skype that will be coming back if they bring world spawn hnms back

[Natenn]

idk you just sound like another mad person, if you don't like it stop playing? Grats on the Kuina btw

[Sureal]

its actually sekka +2 now, if you are going to stalk me, at least keep up

and im not mad, im happy as a clam they actually made the game fun and accessible to everyone

[Natenn]

oh so it is, i hope its not a evasion sekka at least.

[Arlan]

I got one of my friends to play this game and he loves the progression and story lure of FFXi.
A lot of accessable contents for everyone to learn and enjoy with friends and solos.

I tried to get my OLD RL friend to come back to FFXi tho...
He said he doesn't want to play because of what the game was back in the days...
I tried to tell him the game has changed completely but he still doesn't care...
When he comes over my house for a visit, he doesn't even want to see me play FFXi.

How do I let my friend know the game is a lot more fun and accessable if he doesn't wan't to see me play it a little bit?

He was my old friend who quit because he doesn't have so much time to invest on the game back then because of how the grinding was. Him and I wanted to do Missions, Assaults, and other stuff but he never reached lvl75. His highest was lvl43 then quit...
I even told him leveling is WAY faster now and so is skilling up..

I told him now he can lvl quicker so we can do more contents together... But he doesn't believe me...

Anyways, At least I got one of my new RL friends into the game now.
His loving it! My new friend joined the game in the right time! Can't wait for him to finish lvling so we can do abyssea, missions, and assaults together. Excited for MMMs too.

Not everyone has all the RL time in the world to play games.
Not everyone has all the RL time in the world to camp NMs that spawn 24-74hours.

People have Lives and people want to spend their time playing games for fun when they want on their own schedules. The game is not ment to be treated like a "REAL LIFE JOB" where if the clock ticks on your watch, it means you have to log into the game regardless of what your doing just to kill a monster/boss you need for a low drop rate item that means absolutely Nothing.


You say you enjoy HNM content but why do you really enjoy it?
Anyone who enjoys wasting time than actually playing the game for fun is not a true gamer.

You claimed you enjoy the challenge that HNMs had when it comes down to claiming.
You claimed that you missed and enjoy the challenge the competition provided.
THEN....
THEN....
You claim you do not like the competitions either but claim that it shouldn't be a valid reason why SE should take away the 24-74hour NM pops since its a content part of the game..

HOW COULD YOU SAY "I miss HNMs and the challenge it gave for the competitions" when you Just said "I don't Like competitions either but that doesn't mean they should take that content away"?!

Makes no sense.... At all...

[Arlan]

You miss something you do Not like?
You appreciate a content that you do not appreciate?

Explain to me in full details, double spaced, with 3 paragraphs on how this makes sense to an average joe!

[Sureal]

you know whats really awesome, the fact that since you have stooped to personal attacks, you have basically given up and admitted that im right, ty for that

[Natenn]

No your still not right, opinions are opinions. Facts are facts. I'll let you figure it out there. And Arlan calm down its just a game, don't need to post an essay every time like you are 100% right and anyone who is opposed is 100% wrong. Play the game since its obviously the greatest thing ever to you it seems, and your friend was never 75? I dont think he even made it to endgame to have an opinion about being bad or good.

[Arlan]

No your still not right, opinions are opinions. Facts are facts. I'll let you figure it out there. And Arlan calm down its just a game, don't need to post an essay every time like you are 100% right and anyone who is opposed is 100% wrong. Play the game since its obviously the greatest thing ever to you it seems, and your friend was never 75? I dont think he even made it to endgame to have an opinion about being bad or good.

Because he never could put the time back in the days to get the lvl75, because the grind fest was too much back then where he never got the chance to experience endgame or contents, he quit the game.

A gamer can tell if he/she likes the game if the game offers content that he/she enjoys.
FFXi didn't have much contents back in the days beause most contents where endgames and missions where you had to be level cap in order to participate. The leveling up method back then was a grind fest on exp only with limited things to do at low levels. It took way to long to level for any players to experience the game. The time you start experiencing is the time when u reach level cap and start having more contents/options open to experience.

Back then, content was not open or accessible for lower levels and grinding was heavy in time to invest.
So my friend has an opinion that is valid based on his experiencing as a gamer. If he didn't like the game at all because He didn't have so much RL time to invest just to be able to experience contents that the game provided, then he has the right to dislike the game and say the game was bad. Only things he experienced was grinding exp and small quests and a little bit rank missions. Ultimatly thats his opinion if he doesnt like the game and so if he thinks the game is bad then thats understandable.

You can play a game and tell if you like it based on contents it provides and gameplay. You don't have to reach lvl cap to do endgames to have an opinion if the game is bad or good. Why play a game if the game is not worth even playing based on how much limited time the individual has to invest in JUST to GRIND all day/month/year just to get access on the main contents the game provides? (Note: Im talking about before WotG and Abyssea and level sync)

FACT IS: Gamers who play games want to have fun on their own schedule and be able to play with their friends online in an MMO environment for story/Adventures/progression/explorations.

Fact is: My friend (the one who quit) wanted to play ffxi for that very reason, but instead, the game happened to give him nothing but Heavy GRINDING and a little explorations and a little progression, with very little story, (Rank3 and quests) and Nothing else to do but chitchat in LS. He thinks the game sucks because instead of playing the game as the means of enjoyments, he played it as means of just grinding. And his level was low so we wanted him to lvl to cap so he can start experiencing full story missions, full explorations in all valadiel, full endgame contents, things he did not have a chance to experience unfortunately.

The Fact is: You Think you enjoy competitions but yet, You don't because you claim it so, and yet, you still have not answered me my questions before this Post I made.

This thread should be closed cause it is clear nobody finds this thread interesting anymore...

Natten, Arlan, and Sureal seems to be the only ones who really even post anymore in this thread.
And so far, this thread fails.

[Zaknafein]

What fails is the disease of casual whimpering, and the fact that SE has bowed to your types crying. FFxi used to be a game where instant gratification was not catered to. That's what set it apart from every other moronic MMO on the market. It's been sullied, and tarnished now forever, and your shame will live on for generations.

[Sureal]

then leave, theres the door, no one is holding it shut

[Azagthoth]

What fails is the disease of casual whimpering, and the fact that SE has bowed to your types crying. FFxi used to be a game where instant gratification was not catered to. That's what set it apart from every other moronic MMO on the market. It's been sullied, and tarnished now forever, and your shame will live on for generations.

I guess "hardcore" status is determined by how much gil you can make while being AFK.

Don't worry; there are still ways you can still make gil while mostly not being at your computer.

[Zaknafein]

Who is talking about gil?

[Sureal]

after 2 long and pointless threads, we have figured out that is natenns ultimate goal, he was making gil off of monopolizing hnm's and the like, and since he cant do that anymore hes qq'ing

now, cue natenn with something about me crying or being mad or something else stupid

actually, you know what, this thread is now about pie, your favorite, my favorite,everyones favorite, recipies and such, so do tell, mine is rhubarb, god i love rhubarb pie so good

[Zaknafein]

Ah I must have missed a couple episodes of "Bring back HNM" theater.

Also, I will take pumpkin pie. Or better yet my favorite. Carrot Cake.

[Natenn]

Stop crying and being mad ok. HNM were fun for me, also i asked a GM what "monopolizing" is andhe told me "monopolizing an NM is preventing other ppl from camping it" how someone would do that exactly is beyong me, all i could think of was how RMT held Guivre at entrance of Kuftal to block ppl from getting to Amemet or ppl holding Knight Crabs. So no, i did not monopolize anything, I claimed alot over unprepared competition because my peeps had skill. There will be HNMs in time, when idk, but im pretty sure there will be at least 1.

[Ravenmore]

If you boil down what natenn been saying he enjoys about HNM is the claiming part. Whick is FFXI only open PvP in the game. Since the NQs were not hard at all and the HQs were mildly challenging easy if you done it over and over a dozen times you know the mobs never changed. There was challenging fights to be had outside of ground KS99s were a lot harder then thier NQ conter parts and T4 ZNM provided a decent challenge and team work was needed.

What you should really be asking for is open world PvP server, then you could have all the fun you can handle with pop NMs. You would have to have a group just to fend off other groups while killing the NM. Really claiming the mob shouldn't be the hardest part of the fight. I want the mobs to be hard and rewarding not fight over claim and kill in 5 to 10 mins for a 1 -5% drop rate.

[Zaknafein]

/sign me up

[Rekin]

The only way I can see a new HNM with a world time spawn is if its handled in a similar fashion to what Monster Frontier has done. Make the creature utterly massive so much that hordes of players could face it and make it so that any person can attack it at any point in time. Said creature of course would require ridiculous stats and what not and when the dust settles each person who participates in the battle is given a personal chest with items befitting their performance. IE spamming dia or some weak crap nets you a whole salt rock while doing a 1-2% of the creature's health or healing a significant amount of health lets you have a chance at loot that is worth while.

Edit: In addition limit the area the creature spawns in to 90s or something if people are worried about lowbies running in and doing such and such thing.

[Qkan]

It's highly doubtful that there will ever be another HNM that has similar spawning conditions to the "3 kings". There might be another Ixion/Sandworm roaming pops. There may even be Wym style with very limited predicatability, but there will not be the 200 people in a single zone type HNM.

Secondly, almost everyone hated camping HNMs. The only reason it was done was because there was no other way to obtain the loot dropped from them. And even then, unfortunately, the rates were too low to allow people to cycle through. So instead of doing it just a handful of times to get everyone the gear that they needed, you had people who killed it 200+ times over the years and received a single Ridill. Some killed it 5 times and have received 5 Ridills.

And no matter how much you want to believe you didn't, I'm willing to bet any amount of money someone in your LS was botting or had some way of making claim easier. And from what I remember, PS2 claiming was actually faster than PC because it prioritized NPC/Mobs over Players thus generally loaded just a hair faster. If you thought this was fun, you may like Abyssea. Go camp Tunga. He's about as hard as Fafnir was anyway.

[Eth]

What it comes down to is this - Naten and many players like him enjoy c*ckblocking others.

I'm not judging. I have known and enjoyed this particular thrill myself - when on the winning side. On the losing side, not so much, naturally.

In the end, this is a philosophical question that has to be decided by SE- it's about what kind of game SE wants FFXI to be. Personally, I always felt that it was somewhat of an anomaly that a game that's designed around cooperative behavior in exping and missions would become so ultra-competitive at the end. But, it's SE's call in the end.

[Degenxerate]

I didnt read most of this thread because its pretty long and i'm pretty lazy. I'm just wondering why we cant have both? Why not leave king as World Spawns AND make them pop nm's? That way campers could get their rush and casuals could save up the seals/buy pop items and pop them. Has this ever been discussed? I mean looks at things like Adam/Aspi. That set of mobs may as well not even be in the game any more aside from maybe the random monk here or there that wants a black belt. If it was still a world spawn it would be almost guaranteed people would be doing that content. Is that really that bad of a thing to be able to do these as initially intended and many of us grew up on as well as having the option to fight them the new way? Anyways if this has already been discussed i'll show myself the out.

[Sureal]

If you boil down what natenn been saying he enjoys about HNM is the claiming part. Whick is FFXI only open PvP in the game. Since the NQs were not hard at all and the HQs were mildly challenging easy if you done it over and over a dozen times you know the mobs never changed. There was challenging fights to be had outside of ground KS99s were a lot harder then thier NQ conter parts and T4 ZNM provided a decent challenge and team work was needed.

What you should really be asking for is open world PvP server, then you could have all the fun you can handle with pop NMs. You would have to have a group just to fend off other groups while killing the NM. Really claiming the mob shouldn't be the hardest part of the fight. I want the mobs to be hard and rewarding not fight over claim and kill in 5 to 10 mins for a 1 -5% drop rate.

actually no, AT FIRST, that was what he was saying, cause he was MASTER PS2 CLAIMING MACHINE that could outclaim any bot he wanted, then when we called him out on that, he went to the "challenge" of fafnir and the like, then when we called him out on that, he went to something else which we called him out on again, and it wasnt until midway through this thread he slipped up and said something about making gil off hnm's for relic weapons, i.e. he was farming hnm's and selling drops, now he cant do that anymore

btw, still waiting on those millions of players he knows on skype that will come back the second they announce more world spawn hnm's

[Natenn]

I can outclaim bots with PS2, stop being mad and bashing HNMs they were the greatest part of the game. What are you gonna do when they come back? Come here and complain more? And stop bringing up kings they were stupid, SE not gonna make any more HNM with a 30x30 yalm pop area so cheaters can cluster 18 bots on top of pop spot to claim it, any more HNM will be like SW/DI with the same if not longer windows.

And who are you to say selling drops was bad? People still do it in abyssea are the bad? The people who farm gil off various non HNM things what about them? You saying anybody who wants gil is greedy and bad? GMs don't think so.

In my opinion and by checking out your profile on AH it is my opinion that you have no idea what you are saying, i think you just hate on the idea of HNM so you can obtain stuff faster. And since you think everyone bots then by your reasoning, everyone is on an equal playing field so why persist in the complaints? If i wanted everyone to be equal id go to a diff mmo

[Sureal]

selling drops IS bad, this is a game, not a job, and by selling drops you are thereby forcing people to farm nonstop or craft nonstop to make w/e amount of gil you want to charge to obtain an item they could most likely get themselves if they werent being cockblocked by someone who either a. wants to keep others from progressing (god forbid someone needs a title from an hnm to lets say, get an atma, or progress on a quest) or b. would rather farm hnm's to make the same amount of gil in a very short time and sit there and do nothing 99% of the time

and yes, i do like obtaining stuff faster, i mean good god man, the way the game used to be was just dumb, taking 5 years to get valor surcoat just because my ls had terrible luck in getting it to drop, what am i thinking, that was an incredible system

and would you get off the "youre just mad" kick, i am not mad, as i have said over and over and over and over.....


and over and over, and once again, IM NOT MAD, im more than happy with how the game has changed


and in case you didnt know, opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, though not everyone shows it to the world, i dont care what you think about me, you obviously think you are better than me which is fine, you can think whatever you want, keep digging up personal attacks at me, keep e-stalking me, in fact, heres my facebook www.facebook.com/surealistic
heres my personal email, coryreed@gmail.com
i also have google plus but do not know the link to it off the top of my head, im also known, of course, as surealistic on bg forums, and im actually a part of the ls ingame (so by your reasoning, we all must be idiots and have no idea what we are talking about)

and once more, lol@beating bots on ps2

[Natenn]

E stalking? all i did was player search on AH to compare achievements, Just about every LS on any sever sells stuff from abysea and other stuff, you might as well say its bad to sell BCNM drops. And wow calm down. If you're not mad whats with anger?

HNMs should be rare and hard, not popped 100x daily and ppl be able to crutch on atma or staggers.

[Sureal]

so we are back at the "hnms are hard" now huh

blah blah AV (you havent killed according to your own words)
blah blah PW (you already killed it, dont want to go back)
blah blah titles, blah blah

[Natenn]

i would go back to those BUT, most ppl quit and whats left is pretty lazy since the good stuff is easy to get now. But yea thats a good way for me to put it, right now how things are, it promotes ppl to be lazy since the game is on easy mode.

[user201108211515]

"no, you see we tried to have an intelligent conversation, natenn wont have any of it, so its boiled down to this"

Its not that he wont.. he just cant.. talkn to this guy is a waste of time..

Even after the bot LS that was preventing his lil LS from claiming dies, he is still angry.

And I didnt even get a thanks for tearing it apart.

So ungratefull.

But no they never claim aginst bots. He only got dring after the bots gave up on HNM. So now he gets to pretend to be good. Lots of people playn pretend on asura.

[Sureal]

ohhh whats this? someone with firsthand experience of natenn and his OMGWTFBBQPS2BOTKILLINGSKILLS, oh do tell


and btw, i do seem to remember that one of your main arguments was, and i quote "too many noobs running around with gear from hnm's", but wait, you sell drops from these hnm's to anyone and everyone, so that means you are ok with "noob" running around with elite gear, as long as they pay for it, so what is it now natenn, give me/us a new reason to tell you why this is a horrible idea

[user201108211515]

He isnt PS2 either. The one time I saw them claim KB. No competition claim btw. I stood infront of him many times to see if he gets hung up but he is able to run right through people as if they are not there. I am ps2 so I duno the name of the 3rd pt program that allows people to do that but he has it for sure.

When ever ya see screen shots from those guys ya can see PT TP and such.

Beyond that.. not much to really say about them other then they just elite aby noobs. They pat them selves on the back for finishing emp weapons with 15 people. I about LOLd to death when they almost wiped to sobek with the ochain pld. As a group I'm sure they get alot done but solo/duo.. they couldnt do much.

The real souce of his anger stems from his bot being of lesser quailty compaired to the guys that were using arenz or w/e.

And look where that shell is now.. Shouting for help on sobek, what a joke.

Ya think nateen would be estatic about it but he is as angry as ever.

[Natenn]

Who is this liar who made a mule just to post here? Sounds like Madzilla, My LS was dominant and no i don't run through ppl. Theres no credibility in what a Lv1 char ive never seen b4 has to say. Post on your real account bro. Everything he said is a lie, only thing we do considered and event is VWNM and even that don't go on much now, no one wiped to Sobek, no one had 15 ppl there, heck i duo Sobek NIN+THF/DNC. Do you have any proof at all? 1 Screenshot? anything? No, you don't. Because none of the stuff ever happened.

Edit: Might be Izildur though since the spelling is quite horrid, and Forum name "sesucks" HMMMMMMMMM pretty unlegit.

[user201108211515]

lol umad. That is what you say to anyone that dislikes you.. So generic.

Sorry I cant really screen shot. I am ps2/3

This is forceofwill btw. Not that it is my origional game name so it matters verry little. Not that you will ever know who I really am.

Posting as LV1 is much better then showing off, imo.

After a /playlog of 1967 days.. 26 LV 90 jobs. more accomplishments in any given month then you have to claim in your entire FF carrear. I could really care less about what you or anyone else thinks.

And yes you guys did almost wipe to sobek.6-8 ish people dead at once sounds like ya tryn to wipe. Even 1 person dead to sobek is sad.

Lol mutzilla and the other dead MB members. s.t.f.u. does do work.. Ya just have to file daily complaints and provide proof of cheating and people die.. But really ya dont have to thank me for removing the people that put you to shame on a daily basis. I didnt do it for you.. Its just what I do for fun.

[Sureal]

definitely sounds like you mad bro lol, you take pot shots at me and i blow it off, cause well, i dont care what you think about me, this guy who supposedly knows you (i dont know if he does or not, sure sounds like it got under your skin though) and you get all defensive


lol, gg natenn, now back to your troll hole

[user201108211515]

truth, it hurts so bad. lol

[Natenn]

lol fow, you wipe to Buhkiss bc you think offhanding K club is a good idea. All i see is 2 jealous ppl actin like they know whats goin on, i mean you TP in Iga Ningi+2. Such a horrible liar to, go back to afking in PJ next to your "not a bought account" mule.

And Sur, look at my accomplishments, then look at yours, all i have to say to you about being "mad". If you think bad players ganging up on me because of what i got and the big things i done makes you right i think you need to take a step outside and think b4 u post.

[Natenn]

lol umad. That is what you say to anyone that dislikes you.. So generic.

Sorry I cant really screen shot. I am ps2/3

This is forceofwill btw. Not that it is my origional game name so it matters verry little. Not that you will ever know who I really am.

Posting as LV1 is much better then showing off, imo.

After a /playlog of 1967 days.. 26 LV 90 jobs. more accomplishments in any given month then you have to claim in your entire FF carrear. I could really care less about what you or anyone else thinks.

And yes you guys did almost wipe to sobek.6-8 ish people dead at once sounds like ya tryn to wipe. Even 1 person dead to sobek is sad.

Lol mutzilla and the other dead MB members. s.t.f.u. does do work.. Ya just have to file daily complaints and provide proof of cheating and people die.. But really ya dont have to thank me for removing the people that put you to shame on a daily basis. I didnt do it for you.. Its just what I do for fun. Can lie all you want bud,
Career.

[user201108211515]

Lv 85 cap on bukis is a lil differnt then LV90 aginst sobek. Dont really matter much to me if i die. It happens when you low man stuff. Not that you would know. And it makes me lol that all you ever have to say about me is to cry that I have a KC. Jealous much? If you had one then you are telln me you wouldnt test it out to see where it is usefull? nin/dnc + lower mob evasion = 40+tp an attack round.. So gimp to spam blade HI every 15-20 sec, yes. Not to mention the hate gain you can get with it but you dont know how to tank properly do I cant expect you to understand hate or even how this game works. Thats why you got demoted to thf lol. Dring ageis pld comes thf. That right there says it all about you lol.

I can play this game w/o gear and still out perform you. You can wish my mage character was a bought account all you want but the truth is I have been 2 boxing this game since day 1. So lie to your self all ya want. W/e makes ya feel better and less insignifigant.

What "big things" have you done? name 1 thing impressive you did your self. W/o leeching help off other amatures?

Everything I do I do for my self. That is how it is when you multi box. Ya dont need anyone for help.

When was the last time you 2 box dynamis by your self for the full 2 hrs and walk away with 150-250+ currency a day.

What easy aby NMs did you 2box solo for all 50/50 items?

better yet lets talk about LV75 cap.. wtf did you ever do back then that was even remotely impressive? Like you could solo ungar, charby or anything for that matter. You are a crap player with no actual skill. If wasnt for aby you would have nothing and be nothing.

[user201108211515]

lol my accomplishments.

How about how I got 2 thf knife pre nerf. Sold one for 90m

The KC you will never have

A mule better then your main. A mule that owned your entire LS @ DA camping faf just by /bst and charming a fly. You were so mad lol still are.

The ability to 2 box w/o bots better then you can play your 1 character.

The fact is anything you can do I can do better with just 1 hand while main curing an alli.

Enough gill to buy your entire LS and then throw it away w/o breakn a sweat.

You can pretend you are good all ya want. Wont make it true.

But really what do you do your self? Cry... So impressive

[Natenn]

Wow calm down, you are a not a very good player. I know what you're trying to do, trying to lure me into saying curse words to get me banned, hence thats why you made a mule account just for here, you suffer no penalty if that account gets banned. As much as id like to indulge you in your little hissy fit, i will refrain. Learn to spell, stop the lies, try to be happy. Being miserable and trying to act like you were endgame on a patrolled forum is most unbecoming. I mean look at your post, how mean and nasty can you be?

[user201108211515]

lol you are kidding right? You have yet to say anything that has even remotely bothered me.

But go ahead and try to change the subject.. avoid the real question..

What is it you do on your own that makes you so good?

I have walked away from 2 #1 ranked, ah.com ranked LS.. You dont know anything about where Ive been or what Ive seen and done. How do you think a person with out a bot not only joins the top LS on this crap server but owns everyone on performance and attendance. Thease people have WS hacks and speed hacks and all kinds of crutches yet I was still the one claiming DI and SW more times then not.

They have whm cure bots yet I'm still having to main cure my self while tanking because the bots were forever malfunctioning.

Needless to say. Hardcore players will out perform bots any day any time.

lol he says miserable. That is the pot calling the kettle black for sure.

You have 25 pages now of you attacking other people because they think differently then you. You look them up on ah.com to pretend elite over them since your arguement holds no water...

No one wants new HNM if cheaters are just going to monopolise them again.. Not like you were gonna claim anyway.

So when someone calls you out on you BS now I'm mean. lol that is funny.

Karma, ever herd of it?

and once more since you have selective reading and or like to ignore questions that would shame youre self if you answered.

What is it you do on your own that makes you so good?

[Natenn]

You were never part of a #1 anything, you're just acting like a snob to provoke me. But you are pretty bold posting on a mule and not your real account, know what that makes you? A coward. Just trying to act big and show off with no proof of anything.

[user201108211515]

A: This a mule on my actual account.
B: i dont really care what amatures that crap on other people think.
C: I'll throw ya a bone since ya care so much. I spit on iron and walked because they were bot amatures pretending to be good and I walked from samsera because they lacked loyality. 2 #1 (at the time idk now) ranked LSs.

Now hurry and do your home work and ya might figure it out finally.

What a little fish you really are.

[user201108211515]

actually.. I may be mistaken about samsera.. they wernt #1 when I left. It was shortly after because I taught them how to smn burn and then the main 5-6 people end up with maats cap and pop up as #1 one day. I didnt really follow what they did after I left but a friend on caithsith told me about it later, was amusing.

Reguardless.. little fish in a little bowl thinks he can swim in the ocean with the sharks.

edit* its aresmas actually. samsera was the dyna shell.. been a while. And dont get me wrong. Very good shell with some very nice and good players.. Just wasnt for me. If im gonna carry a team the way I always end up doing.. Need much more loyality.