Empyrean weapons are now standard equipment.

[Atomic_Skull]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

Especially now that leveling has become so fast, the couple weeks to upgrade your empyrean once you reach lvl 90 can be considered part of leveling a job.

[Seriha]

Now tell that to everyone who doesn't dual-box, doesn't play 5+ hours a day, and doesn't have a linkshell willing to devote so much time specifically toward them. So, while they're more common than Mythics are Relics, they're certainly not standard.

[Ravenmore]

Still depends on the job.

[Runespider]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

This I think is why they won't be upgradable past 90, they are just way too common and easy to get.


Now tell that to everyone who doesn't dual-box, doesn't play 5+ hours a day, and doesn't have a linkshell willing to devote so much time specifically toward them. So, while they're more common than Mythics are Relics, they're certainly not standard.

If you are trying to accomplish an Emp in a LS and you don't lead it or aren't in the active players clique you're doing it wrong. Make a couple of friends and work on emps together, easy, fast and very rewarding.

[Arlan]

LMAO!
LMAO!
Your Joking right?
I do NOT consider Empyrean weapons "Standard"
Just cause you had an easy time to get it doesn't mean everyone else has the same experience as you have.

I played this game since 2006 and let me tell you, I do NOT have 1 Empyrean Weapon in my name at all.
I play my main jobs very well, and I do not have time to camp NMs several times when I could be doing something else durring my free time.

If anything, "Elemental Trail weapons" are standard since I and some other people with less time can actually accomplish them without having to camp or kill PH for an NM to kill several times.

Also, AF3+1 I think is standard since anyone can shout for a 3-4 group of people or get 3 good friends to help with seals. And the Gear you buy from Cruor that people call "noob gear" is also standard since they have very good stats.

I got almost all my jobs AF3+1 gear, And I got some good Elemental trail weapons upgraded, So are you saying I am "Gimped" for not having to put up with the Empyrean weapons?

Really?
Sorry I disagree here.

I take my jobs seriously, but that doesn't mean I need to have Empyrean Weapons as a standard weapon to prove that.
My skills and AF3+1 gear will speak for itself durring party play and solo play.

Later

[sruon]

If you can get 3 friends to help you with AF3+1, I'm sure you can find one to get an empyrean because that's all it takes.

[SNK]

Now tell that to everyone who doesn't dual-box, doesn't play 5+ hours a day, and doesn't have a linkshell willing to devote so much time specifically toward them. So, while they're more common than Mythics are Relics, they're certainly not standard.

I work 5 days a week with only any real time to play on the weekends. I finished a Farsha in a month. The only real stretch was 12 hours straight in Vunkrel for the last 30 Bukhis Wings I needed.

Other then that it was pretty easy to do. I Duo'd/Trio'd all 50 of my Fistule Charges and Bukhis for the 1st set of Wings, I 5 manned it easily.

[Nacht]

Still depends on the job.

It might depend on the job, but Empyreans are more readily available.

[Secondplanet]

i don't see the need for everyone to get one, i'm a full time summoner and i don't like any other job, the ele -perp staffs are better then any emp weapon on the sole fact that its for once geared towards out jobs. I always see people saying emp can be made in a week but i have to agree with some on this board, only if you have the man power backing you.

My wife and myself duo most stuff and that makes it somewhat easier but there are still some NM's that the jobs we have just doesn't cut it.

In the end it isn't the gear that makes a good player, it only makes up for the lack of skill. A skill player can have crap gear but if they know their job can run circles around those who don't.

I saw a summoner with all +2 gear and hell even the Nirvana lvl 90 and outside abyssea they were out of mp in what seemed like 5min's while myself with just the +1 gear and only titan's staff completed was up and running for the whole fight without rest and only needed 1 syphon.

[Unctgtg]

I had to LOL at this, thinking it was a Friday morning thread. Emp will never be standard because of the time it takes to obtain them. AFv3+1 I can understand is standard now for some jobs. What next are you going to tell us that Relics/mythics (once they get their boost) will be standard. Think before you post.

[hiko]

I had to LOL at this, thinking it was a Friday morning thread. Emp will never be standard because of the time it takes to obtain them. AFv3+1 I can understand is standard now for some jobs. What next are you going to tell us that Relics/mythics (once they get their boost) will be standard. Think before you post.

it takes less time to get an empyrean weapon than to lvl a job 90 (without leeching)
so if i follow your idea of not standard because time consuming having a job 90 is not standard

[Leonlionheart]

AF3+1 isn't just standard, if you don't have it you're trash.

AF3+2 is standard.

Emps are like having Byakko's Haidate at 75, not particularly hard, just time consuming and the leaders of your LS get them first.

[Unctgtg]

I am sorry but I have to LOL at your thought process.

[rog]

Emp will never be standard because of the time it takes to obtain them.Err, that is pretty much why they are standard.

Also, this is why i play mage jobs.

[sruon]

I am sorry but I have to LOL at your thought process.

Not sure what's so hard/time-consuming about empyrean weapons.

[ShadowHeart]

makes me laugh at the moment in Cerberus people shouting in port selling empyrean weapons complete in 2 days ... thing is they are only a 6 man low man group 10 on a good day. but with multi pop spawns they just go out KI farm all pops for a few days and pops 2-3 mobs brew lock on a chest 2-3 more pop then brews again normally brew running out by then.

at least they are not as bad as that LOL monk i know who uses terra stave on earth base mobs ... dragua XD

[Byrth]

I can see working on one Empyrean weapon as a long-term goal even for the most casual of casual players, but it's unrealistic to think of them as standard gear.

[Eeek]

I can see working on one Empyrean weapon as a long-term goal even for the most casual of casual players, but it's unrealistic to think of them as standard gear.

I agree with this sentiment. I spent a lot of my FFXI life in purely social linkshells with friends who were not interested in, and frankly were not capable of, acquiring top-tier endgame gear. They enjoyed the social aspects of the game, crafting, farming, and played through all the major mission and quest lines. I equate this somewhat to people who play through the single-player Final Fantasy games for the main story and side quests and don't care much for the endgame.

I think a fair number of players are fortunate in that their linkshell(s) and circle of friends consist mostly of skilled, experienced, and well-geared players. For them, Abyssea is not terribly challenging at all. They don't know, or may have forgotten, what it's like on the other side of the coin. We all see it though. For example, I watched a pickup ally wipe to Bennu last night. I've seen a full alliance of 18 people, all in the same LS, wipe to Amhuluk twice while my group of 5 friends killed it easily between their wipes. In both these examples, the last surviving melee happened to have a brew and brewed down the NM.

I don't believe that Empyrean weapons or full AF3+2 sets are standard equipment, and it's my time in pickups, social shells, and lower-echelon 'endgame' shells that lead me to feel this way.

For what it's worth, here are my concepts of standard versus elite in the Abyssea age:

Standard~
Full AF3+1 or close to it since much of it is readily available from quests and easy NMs. May be lagging behind on some +1 bodies since some of those seals are a pain to get for below-average to average players. Might sport some wisely-chosen Magian weapons or well-augmented Dominion weapons. Uses some equipment swaps with easy-to-obtain but sensible gear from the AH or really easy NMs. Does not use an Unyielding Ring.

Above-Average~
Full AF3+1 with a smattering of AF3+2 pieces. Does not own all the best r/ex drops from Abyssea NMs, but does have a collection of things like Loki's Kaftan or Hecate's Earring. Uses the good r/ex weapons dropped from NMs, the stronger +2 Magian weapons and staves, and probably a completed WoE Empyrean or two. Empyrean weapons are a possibility. Uses more extensive equipment swaps than the standard-issue player including MDT sets, PDT sets, Idle/Refresh sets on their mages, multiple TP and WS sets on their melees, and so on.

Top-Tier~
Full AF3+2 sets. Owns most, if not all, of the best r/ex drops in Abyssea for their jobs (as well as still-relevant r/ex gear from the older endgame events). Owns, at minimum, WoE Empyreans for all their melee jobs as well as one or more Empyrean weapons (and is always working on the next Empyrean weapon). All jobs are impeccably geared with excellent macros and equipment swaps. Everything is skilled up (save annoying skills like parrying and guard) and all WSNM and Nyzul weaponskills unlocked. Knows NM fights inside and out and knows the best setup and approach for each fight. If something goes wrong, they can adjust and improvise on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, wipes in Abyssea.

I know there's plenty to nitpick and some points I got wrong, but overall this is my basic stance on standard players versus top-tier players.

[Greatguardian]

What Eeek said ^.

Though, personally I'd love to just consider WoE weapons a minimum for standard equipment for some jobs. NIN, WAR, MNK, COR, RNG, SAM, DRK at the least get a huge damage boost from their Empyrean WS. Victory Smite pretty much shits all over any other Magian or non-Magian weapon. WoE does not constitute the same time commitment that full Empyreans do, and can be soloed if absolutely necessary.

There really is no reason to not have Ukko's Fury, Victory Smite, Blade: Hi, Tachi: Fudo, Wildfire, Jishnu's Radiance, or Torcleaver in some form, or at least be working on the respective WoE weapons.

[Finuve]

camping Black Triple Stars = suck...that is all

[Kwate]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

Especially now that leveling has become so fast, the couple weeks to upgrade your empyrean once you reach lvl 90 can be considered part of leveling a job.

They seem to be more standard with Monks and Ninja (especially these 2), I'm starting to see more and more Almaces pop up as well. Any other emp, outside of these 3 are a pleasant and welcome surprise.

[Vold]

I would love to see the evidence that Empyrean Weapons are as vast and common as some of you people claim, because I sure don't see it. I guess because I see them far more commonly than relics or mythics then they must be standard, right? Even though I've seen maybe 20 at most so far, dominated by MNK, followed by WAR, followed by NIN, followed by nothing(you'd think twashtar would be in the running with all those THFs running around but nope! I've seen one.... ONE)

So what's going on here? At best, across all worlds, there are probably several thousand working on these weapons. I stress that is a far cry from 300,000 or whatever our true population is these days. Cut out this non sense already. I'm happy for anyone who lives in Abyssea for 12 hours a day working on your Empyrean weapons, or the occasional person who actually works for a living investing all of their free time into it, or whatever. But there are many players who will never accomplish that because they have better things to do, and really could care less how easy you think it is. As a matter of fact it probably annoys the shit out of them to have to hear it because even when it's an "easy" quest it's still pretty insane for the average Joe/Jane to complete. 50-75 drops from boss quality monsters. I remember when even hardcore players were bitching up a storm at that insanity, before brews became reasonable to use.

When you see an Empyrean weapon on every person like we do with full Empyrean armor sets essentially making everyone look the damn same, let me know. Sit there at where ever, take a screen grab of those 30 or so characters that you can see at once all holding their Empyreans, and I'll stand corrected and eat my hat and then some. Offer does not extend to certain areas where only hardcore players may gather, however, nor does it extend to years in the future. I'm talking in the middle of Jeuno kinds of areas, right now. If every single person you see is not holding an Empyrean weapon, or every person you see has basically the same LS color, don't even bother snapping a shot. That's my challenge to anyone who is ill informed of the facts because they spend all of their time in Abyssea against competition so "everyone" must have these weapons by now.

Seriously all I see is mouths running on these forums. Show us the pics or it didn't happen.

[Bumbeen]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18264/spharai 78
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19397/verethragna 405


And spharai have been out 6x longer than verethragna...

[svengalis]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

Especially now that leveling has become so fast, the couple weeks to upgrade your empyrean once you reach lvl 90 can be considered part of leveling a job.

What was the point of this thread?

[svengalis]

Now tell that to everyone who doesn't dual-box, doesn't play 5+ hours a day, and doesn't have a linkshell willing to devote so much time specifically toward them. So, while they're more common than Mythics are Relics, they're certainly not standard.

You are correct sir. I trio briareus with me duo boxing whm/nin with my war friends then used pickup people to help us with sobek.

[scaevola]

Empyreans are quite a bit easier to make than relics and mythics to make, it's true, but this is more a comment on the ridiculously unreasonable time and resource demands of relics and mythics, not that empyreans are too easy.

The one reason they're as common as they are is 200k Primeval Brew. The effect such a small investment for such a potentially huge shortcut has on the process of Emp-building cannot be understated. It's not so different than making a relic, actually; the actual grouping and KI-farming is almost an afterthought, dwarfed by the timesink of farming up several million cruor for brews. In fact, I suspect a good number of Empyrean holders only decided to begin making one after a year of screwing around Abyssea led to them amassing huge amounts of cruor almost by accident, at which point they said, "might as well make an Empyrean with this".

[Solsticewind]

*thinks* well I guess my Dnc well be for ever a gimp then as I have no plans what so ever to get the Empyrean dagger weapon as in my view it has no real use other then "OOOOOOOH look at my SHINEY!!!!" I have other daggers I view as being more useful to doing my job when playing. So sorry but no the Empyrean dagger well NEVER be seen by me as "standard equipment".

[Kwate]

Empyreans are quite a bit easier to make than relics and mythics to make, it's true, but this is more a comment on the ridiculously unreasonable time and resource demands of relics and mythics, not that empyreans are too easy.

The one reason they're as common as they are is 200k Primeval Brew. The effect such a small investment for such a potentially huge shortcut has on the process of Emp-building cannot be understated. It's not so different than making a relic, actually; the actual grouping and KI-farming is almost an afterthought, dwarfed by the timesink of farming up several million cruor for brews. In fact, I suspect a good number of Empyrean holders only decided to begin making one after a year of screwing around Abyssea led to them amassing huge amounts of cruor almost by accident, at which point they said, "might as well make an Empyrean with this".

I disagree, I'm currently on 24/50 of sobek skins for my Almace, never had to use brew. While I do agree if you don't have a LS doing this for you its a major time sink as I been trio'ing mine.

[Catsby]

OP is either butthurt that nobody in his LS helps him with NMs for his empyrean or that him and everyone in his LS has an empyrean and he's no longer special.

[Aliekber]

I disagree, I'm currently on 24/50 of sobek skins for my Almace, never had to use brew. While I do agree if you don't have a LS doing this for you its a major time sink as I been trio'ing mine.

Agreed. 21/50 Skins for Kannagi, and I haven't brewed a single drop.

[scaevola]

Well, I guess I'll be pretty awesome when I solo a 90 Masamune with nothing but Dancer at 90 and about 8 million cruor!

To be serious, if I were actually considering making an Empyrean (I'm currently going through the WoE grind because I would rather have really strong weapons for four jobs than a really, really strong weapon for one, but that's just me), I would try to brew as often as possible as a courtesy to other groups and also the people generously donating their time for what is basically a toy.

[Aliekber]

If you're going to brew as a courtesy to those helping you, save it for the 90 trial and chainbrew multiple pops--it'll save you time and none of the 80-85 NMs (except maybe Glavoid if you're really that impatient) are really worth wasting a brew on.

Especially if you're building a Masamune. The idea of spending 8 million cruor on brewing Carabosse and Cirein-Croin repeatedly makes my stomach churn because both of them are so easy.

[rog]

Well, I guess I'll be pretty awesome when I solo a 90 Masamune
Not really, anyone can solo an empyrean.

[Kwate]

Well, I guess I'll be pretty awesome when I solo a 90 Masamune with nothing but Dancer at 90 and about 8 million cruor!

To be serious, if I were actually considering making an Empyrean (I'm currently going through the WoE grind because I would rather have really strong weapons for four jobs than a really, really strong weapon for one, but that's just me), I would try to brew as often as possible as a courtesy to other groups and also the people generously donating their time for what is basically a toy.

Brews are almost a waste on these unless you brew with a THF, TH is key when fighting these NM's to help double your drops.

[svengalis]

Empyreans are quite a bit easier to make than relics and mythics to make, it's true, but this is more a comment on the ridiculously unreasonable time and resource demands of relics and mythics, not that empyreans are too easy.

The one reason they're as common as they are is 200k Primeval Brew. The effect such a small investment for such a potentially huge shortcut has on the process of Emp-building cannot be understated. It's not so different than making a relic, actually; the actual grouping and KI-farming is almost an afterthought, dwarfed by the timesink of farming up several million cruor for brews. In fact, I suspect a good number of Empyrean holders only decided to begin making one after a year of screwing around Abyssea led to them amassing huge amounts of cruor almost by accident, at which point they said, "might as well make an Empyrean with this".

I farmed my kannagi without using brews and I am almost done with my friends aswell.

[Arlan]

I agree with this sentiment. I spent a lot of my FFXI life in purely social linkshells with friends who were not interested in, and frankly were not capable of, acquiring top-tier endgame gear. They enjoyed the social aspects of the game, crafting, farming, and played through all the major mission and quest lines. I equate this somewhat to people who play through the single-player Final Fantasy games for the main story and side quests and don't care much for the endgame.

I think a fair number of players are fortunate in that their linkshell(s) and circle of friends consist mostly of skilled, experienced, and well-geared players. For them, Abyssea is not terribly challenging at all. They don't know, or may have forgotten, what it's like on the other side of the coin. We all see it though. For example, I watched a pickup ally wipe to Bennu last night. I've seen a full alliance of 18 people, all in the same LS, wipe to Amhuluk twice while my group of 5 friends killed it easily between their wipes. In both these examples, the last surviving melee happened to have a brew and brewed down the NM.

I don't believe that Empyrean weapons or full AF3+2 sets are standard equipment, and it's my time in pickups, social shells, and lower-echelon 'endgame' shells that lead me to feel this way.

For what it's worth, here are my concepts of standard versus elite in the Abyssea age:

Standard~
Full AF3+1 or close to it since much of it is readily available from quests and easy NMs. May be lagging behind on some +1 bodies since some of those seals are a pain to get for below-average to average players. Might sport some wisely-chosen Magian weapons or well-augmented Dominion weapons. Uses some equipment swaps with easy-to-obtain but sensible gear from the AH or really easy NMs. Does not use an Unyielding Ring.

Above-Average~
Full AF3+1 with a smattering of AF3+2 pieces. Does not own all the best r/ex drops from Abyssea NMs, but does have a collection of things like Loki's Kaftan or Hecate's Earring. Uses the good r/ex weapons dropped from NMs, the stronger +2 Magian weapons and staves, and probably a completed WoE Empyrean or two. Empyrean weapons are a possibility. Uses more extensive equipment swaps than the standard-issue player including MDT sets, PDT sets, Idle/Refresh sets on their mages, multiple TP and WS sets on their melees, and so on.

Top-Tier~
Full AF3+2 sets. Owns most, if not all, of the best r/ex drops in Abyssea for their jobs (as well as still-relevant r/ex gear from the older endgame events). Owns, at minimum, WoE Empyreans for all their melee jobs as well as one or more Empyrean weapons (and is always working on the next Empyrean weapon). All jobs are impeccably geared with excellent macros and equipment swaps. Everything is skilled up (save annoying skills like parrying and guard) and all WSNM and Nyzul weaponskills unlocked. Knows NM fights inside and out and knows the best setup and approach for each fight. If something goes wrong, they can adjust and improvise on the fly. Very rarely, if ever, wipes in Abyssea.

I know there's plenty to nitpick and some points I got wrong, but overall this is my basic stance on standard players versus top-tier players.

This Kitty knows EXACTLY what she is talking about.
when I say "Exactly" I mean "Exactly".

Thank You for the explanation Kitten!
I'm Liking your reply to this.

[Francisco]

I wouldn't consider empyreans "standard". Judging by the vast majority of players MNKs I see, standard falls somewhere between Fruor Cesti, Taurine Cesti and STR Taipan's +2... As Greatguardian said, everyone should be working towards at least Victory Smite from WoE. Once you have that - you're pretty much automatically "well geared", as long as you cap haste.

As for my current situation - I was about a day or two from finishing Lv. 85 Verethragna before the tsunami hit and cut off FFXI for a couple of weeks. When it came back, my empyrean static was pretty much gone - and most of them are on break now. I've already finished Chloris, and I'm 24/50 on Ulhuadshi... working with a DRG and a WAR in my LS at the moment to get them off Chloris and Glavoid - then were going to move on to Attohwa and finish all our 85s.

As for brewing, it wasn't needed, but I did brew three Chloris pops once (three kills, one brew). Reason? I really hate Iratham, and just wanted him to die. Swiftly.

No plans to brew any Ulhuadshi - unless my group decides to call it quits one night and I'm like 1-2 fangs from finishing with a popset... Then yeah, I'm brewing.

[Atomic_Skull]

OP is either butthurt that nobody in his LS helps him with NMs for his empyrean or that him and everyone in his LS has an empyrean and he's no longer special.


I'm not complaining I'm just stating things how they are. This FFXI 2011.

[wish12oz]

I got almost all my jobs AF3+1 gear, And I got some good Elemental trail weapons upgraded, So are you saying I am "Gimped" for not having to put up with the Empyrean weapons?


I would say this is about standard, but with the introduction of +2 items in every zone and body/hands from much easier mobs, I would say having some +2's is becoming pretty common as well.

[Dart]

I would say this is about standard, but with the introduction of +2 items in every zone and body/hands from much easier mobs, I would say having some +2's is becoming pretty common as well.

agreeing with eek and you.

[hiko]

I would say this is about standard, but with the introduction of +2 items in every zone and body/hands from much easier mobs, I would say having some +2's is becoming pretty common as well.

and that also help weapons being more "standard".
the "harder" part for a "casual player with no friend wanting to help" was 80 item because you couldn't farm with /sh group (no reward for other). Now you can
/sh "visionNM" +2 item do you need it, weapon item locked
and you get people

[Dew]

Still don't understand the people claiming Emps can be done in 1-2 days. The moogle doesn't hand a weapon with all the trails up to the collect trials done. You still have to spend time on them. No emp can be made in 1-2 days no matter how fast you are. People fail to realize that trails before the Abyssea nms are part of the weapons. The nms will add least 2-3 days if they don't take 6-20hrs for 1 repop. So no matter how fast you are, no one will ever get an emp done from start to 90 or even 85 in 1-2 days.

[sruon]

Yeah, you can.

[Dew]

Sure you can, cause camping the 9 nms before the collect trials isn't part of the emps right?

[Shoko]

Sure you can, cause camping the 9 nms before the collect trials isn't part of the emps right?

When someone says "We finish an emp in such and such time" they ONLY mean the Abyssea portion, not the NMs/VNMs before that. Not sure how you missed this.

[Atomic_Skull]

Sure you can, cause camping the 9 nms before the collect trials isn't part of the emps right?

Not really no. Everything up to the VNM can be done solo and is so ridiculously easy that it really doesn't count.

VNM's can be completed in a few hours with 2-3 people thanks to 4 copies of each NMs existing in 4 zones with a 1 hour repop in each and so again they don't count because doing them is trivial.

[rog]

Vnms can all be soloed too even, though depending on job/nm, can potentially take unrealistically long.

[Kwate]

Still don't understand the people claiming Emps can be done in 1-2 days. The moogle doesn't hand a weapon with all the trails up to the collect trials done. You still have to spend time on them. No emp can be made in 1-2 days no matter how fast you are. People fail to realize that trails before the Abyssea nms are part of the weapons. The nms will add least 2-3 days if they don't take 6-20hrs for 1 repop. So no matter how fast you are, no one will ever get an emp done from start to 90 or even 85 in 1-2 days.

slight exaggeration by some people, but can be done pretty quickly if you have a LS to help, (which people think everyone have). not happening in a duo or trio setting, especially when you get to stage 2, where you need to compete over claim timed spawns.

[Glamdring]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

Especially now that leveling has become so fast, the couple weeks to upgrade your empyrean once you reach lvl 90 can be considered part of leveling a job.

Kinda depends on WHICH empyrean you choose, some are easier than others. I remember my bst ele axe I did for magic defense, the light path. About half of it was pet kills in sea. No pets, so jugs were mandatory. No light weather ever. Even though the kills were fairly easy (I was doing 75-80 at the time, outside Abyssea, solo), getting Lightsday to allign with my play times was a problem. It ended up taking me most of a month to get past it, and I have 3-4 hours weekdays and 10-12 a day on weekends. Now I'm doing pet kills on Soulflayers under Thunder. I'm doing it solo in Abyssea. Yes, there is thunder weather in the Mire, but it is not dependable and soulflayers don't go down quick to my pup, especially if I need it to heal me as well, so that's slow, too.

Even worse are those doing the NM paths, especially on an NM that's popular with several different trials. Between fighting for claims, farming pops (for those that use pops) and getting people to help, especially if the leader isn't allowing the jewels, etc. to go to the helpers this is not just a gimme. Nor is it necessarily fast. Couple that with most of us having several 90's, frequently dualwielding so we need 2 of them and while they may be "standard" they are standard as "work in progress".

[blowfin]

VNM's can be completed in a few hours with 2-3 people thanks to 4 copies of each NMs existing in 4 zones with a 1 hour repop in each and so again they don't count because doing them is trivial.

A few hours per VNM stage is far more realistic. 2 would be a bare minimum and then that's probably excluding time wasted looking for the VNMs and time taken to go and visit the moogle to move onto the next trial. Plus if you're teaming up with a group and both VNM's are needed that's going to add a nice chunk of time in there too.

So, realistically if people aren't breaking any world records for getting stuff done, 6-12 hours of gameplay is probably a decent estimate for most players for the VNM stages.

It's also the first stage where teaming up is really going to help you get things done faster.

[svengalis]

Not really no. Everything up to the VNM can be done solo and is so ridiculously easy that it really doesn't count.

VNM's can be completed in a few hours with 2-3 people thanks to 4 copies of each NMs existing in 4 zones with a 1 hour repop in each and so again they don't count because doing them is trivial.

There are not 4 copies of Tammuz and chesma in each zone. How can you not count the NM leading up to the Abyssea NM if they are what it takes to make an empyrean weapon?You will not make a empyrean weapon in 2-3 days.

[CapnSavaHoe]

AF3+1 isn't just standard, if you don't have it you're trash.

AF3+2 is standard.

Emps are like having Byakko's Haidate at 75, not particularly hard, just time consuming and the leaders of your LS get them first.

I guess you are the cool kid on the block because you got equipment with the blue rim around it? Gimme a break dude.
I'm willing to bet you didn't sing that tune up until YOU got your AF3+2. I compare this statement to one of the dumbest things I've heard since playing this game back in 2004: "I don't PT with people that don't have Chocobo licenses, you guys are losers". I mean, really?

Only correct statement you made was about the LS leads getting them first, but that is to be expected if you are dumb enough to join and LS with more then 10 members in it.


Now back to the OP, yes the Emp Weapons are "easy" to get IF you got time to play. If you hold a REAL job [not McD's, BK or a damn food store] then you won't be singing that tune. I leave my house around 7:30 AM and don't return until 8:00PM, then I got to do regular everyday husband things around the house and then I get around 2-3hr of play time, IF THAT. Most of which is spent either setting something up, looking at shouts, or pick up exp PTs.

It is very unrealistic to claim something is easy because you are either using other people [yes I said it, using, big LS leads are nothing but users... getting Emp after Emp while reg members got shit!], or have enough time to do anything because you still live with your parents. All I got to say to the sad souls that think upgrading an Emp weapon is such an accomplishment is, you keep your virtual goods buddy, I'll take my house, all the crap I got in it, and my family any day over that.

[Greatguardian]

Pretty much none of the BG posters here are even part of big linkshells, let alone linkshells stupid enough to "sponsor" crap for their leaders. Only scrubs still do that crap. My shell is "large" these days, but we don't do Empyreans or Armor as a full shell. We have like 5-6 different subgroups that all do shit on their own time, and people randomly get together to do random shit whenever they feel like it.

People who can't put forth the time commitment for an Emp are perfectly justifiable. But that does not mean they are unable to do Walk of Echoes. WoE is a 30 minute time commitment that can be entered at will, solo if need be.

Empyrean Weapons may not be standard equipment, but Empyrean WS damn well are.

[Donwu]

That's not necessarily true. I run a shell where there are currently 4 empyreans under construction, my Caladbolg included. I will not be the first to complete, and possibly won't be the second. Not out of a lack of trying, but out of the understanding that the more guns you have in a fight, the faster something dies. As far as "OMGZ joo no haz empyz?! Joo fale!", we don't all have the luxury of being doucheworthy enough to bag other players because we run with a shell that dedicates its work to getting empyreans done. A good amount of shells are about helping returning players or helping new people, or just generally not being dicks. Empyreans were SE's answer to relics or mythics, which took SO much content completion and gil that it took the ability to have nice gear out of the hands of the everyday player. Does it take a matter of a week or so to do all the nm trials? Yeah for sure. Are some of the 50x item paths really easy to get? Absolutely. Can a guy who plays 3 times a week for 2-3 hours each FINALLY get something nice? Yes. It's what will keep them playing. You don't like how easy they are to make, quit QQing and go make a burtgang or excalibur.

[Greatguardian]

Just an addendum, not directed at anyone (aside from maybe Malacite):

It is really, really dumb to pursue an Empyrean that is beyond one's means. If you don't have a solid group, if you're constantly struggling to get people to help you, if you don't have the playtime or the will to grind out a full Empyrean, don't get a full Empyrean.

There is nothing wrong with WoE weapons and they absolutely destroy any and all alternatives for jobs whose Empyreans are actually good. They take significantly less time to get, and that means significantly more time where your DD job won't be absolutely subpar. There is nothing wrong with repeating the very basic/easy NM/VNM portions of the trials if you decide to upgrade to a full Empyrean in the future. It is simply never worth not having an Empyrean WS because you want a full shiny that's going to take you over a month to get when a WoE weapon takes very little time.

Worst case scenario, that WoE weapon will significantly speed up your farming for your full Empyrean if you decide to go that route.

[Bumbeen]

Empyreans were SE's answer to relics or mythics, which took SO much content completion and gil that it took the ability to have nice gear out of the hands of the everyday player. Does it take a matter of a week or so to do all the nm trials? Yeah for sure. Are some of the 50x item paths really easy to get? Absolutely. Can a guy who plays 3 times a week for 2-3 hours each FINALLY get something nice? Yes. It's what will keep them playing. You don't like how easy they are to make, quit QQing and go make a burtgang or excalibur.

Do you really think so? I do not think the difficulty of relics/mythics took the ability to get nice gear away from everyday player, relics weren't that awesome at 75(aside from horn, shield, apoc etc etc), and they aren't that great now. I personally am working on mine just because it's expensive as hell, even though it's like....... 3rd or 4th best weapon.

[CapnSavaHoe]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18264/spharai 78
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19397/verethragna 405


And spharai have been out 6x longer than verethragna...


You are comparing apples to oranges. The relics cost time and gil, a lot of each. Each stage if you got the items and currency takes a week, so that right there shoots your post out the water. Gathering the 60+ 100x currency takes mad long as well since most of the ppl buy it and not farm it [due to the old 500k per instance, no instance for 3 days].

For relics you NEED a lot of people to accomplish it, at least you did back in the day, and a whole lot of more gil.

Again, it is in the eye of the beholder, if you got the time and gil to bribe people to help you, sure it will take nothing. If you lead an LS and you basically use your members to pimp you out, sure it will take no time. But if you are a regular casual player it will take a long time; not as long as a relic by far, but still a long time. Hell, took me about a week to get 10 body seals for Iga, go figure that out with your whole point of view of it being so simple and easy.

[Bumbeen]

You are comparing apples to oranges. The relics cost time and gil, a lot of each. Each stage if you got the items and currency takes a week, so that right there shoots your post out the water. Gathering the 60+ 100x currency takes mad long as well since most of the ppl buy it and not farm it [due to the old 500k per instance, no instance for 3 days].

For relics you NEED a lot of people to accomplish it, at least you did back in the day, and a whole lot of more gil.

Again, it is in the eye of the beholder, if you got the time and gil to bribe people to help you, sure it will take nothing. If you lead an LS and you basically use your members to pimp you out, sure it will take no time. But if you are a regular casual player it will take a long time; not as long as a relic by far, but still a long time. Hell, took me about a week to get 10 body seals for Iga, go figure that out with your whole point of view of it being so simple and easy.

I don't understand what you're saying. It sounds like your post is simply backing up my point that verethragna are very easy to acquire.

[scaevola]

It is really, really dumb to pursue an Empyrean that is beyond one's means. If you don't have a solid group, if you're constantly struggling to get people to help you, if you don't have the playtime or the will to grind out a full Empyrean, don't get a full Empyrean.

There is nothing wrong with WoE weapons and they absolutely destroy any and all alternatives for jobs whose Empyreans are actually good. They take significantly less time to get, and that means significantly more time where your DD job won't be absolutely subpar. There is nothing wrong with repeating the very basic/easy NM/VNM portions of the trials if you decide to upgrade to a full Empyrean in the future. It is simply never worth not having an Empyrean WS because you want a full shiny that's going to take you over a month to get when a WoE weapon takes very little time.

Worst case scenario, that WoE weapon will significantly speed up your farming for your full Empyrean if you decide to go that route.

This really can't be stressed enough. For players without solid static groups where roles are clearly defined, I'd argue that the WoE path is even better, since going through the Coin leg of your weapon of choice is probably going to get you close to finishing several other weapons as well, and having solid gearsets for a variety of jobs is infinitely better for a solo-or-pug player than best-in-slot gear for one.

EDIT: In fairness, however, while coin-farming is pretty easy, even solo, and is a very low-risk, low-investment activity, it's not really fair to say it isn't time-consuming. The reality is it IS pretty tedious and random, and it really does take up a good amount of time. The great thing about it is that you don't really need anybody's help and access is just a Retrace scroll away, so you can do it entirely on your own schedule in a way you can't really say for many things in FFXI, even now. I'd go nuts if I did it all in one push, but I can go bit by bit and take a break to do something else without taking anybody else into account.

I got a Coin of Glory over my lunch break today! Insane!

[svengalis]

I guess you are the cool kid on the block because you got equipment with the blue rim around it? Gimme a break dude.
I'm willing to bet you didn't sing that tune up until YOU got your AF3+2. I compare this statement to one of the dumbest things I've heard since playing this game back in 2004: "I don't PT with people that don't have Chocobo licenses, you guys are losers". I mean, really?

Only correct statement you made was about the LS leads getting them first, but that is to be expected if you are dumb enough to join and LS with more then 10 members in it.


Now back to the OP, yes the Emp Weapons are "easy" to get IF you got time to play. If you hold a REAL job [not McD's, BK or a damn food store] then you won't be singing that tune. I leave my house around 7:30 AM and don't return until 8:00PM, then I got to do regular everyday husband things around the house and then I get around 2-3hr of play time, IF THAT. Most of which is spent either setting something up, looking at shouts, or pick up exp PTs.

It is very unrealistic to claim something is easy because you are either using other people [yes I said it, using, big LS leads are nothing but users... getting Emp after Emp while reg members got shit!], or have enough time to do anything because you still live with your parents. All I got to say to the sad souls that think upgrading an Emp weapon is such an accomplishment is, you keep your virtual goods buddy, I'll take my house, all the crap I got in it, and my family any day over that.

Don't insult people because YOU don't have the time to dedicate to the game to get empyrean. Why do you okay the game if you don't care about virtual goods? Why do you okay any

[Glamdring]

This really can't be stressed enough. For players without solid static groups where roles are clearly defined, I'd argue that the WoE path is even better, since going through the Coin leg of your weapon of choice is probably going to get you close to finishing several other weapons as well, and having solid gearsets for a variety of jobs is infinitely better for a solo-or-pug player than best-in-slot gear for one.

EDIT: In fairness, however, while coin-farming is pretty easy, even solo, and is a very low-risk, low-investment activity, it's not really fair to say it isn't time-consuming. The reality is it IS pretty tedious and random, and it really does take up a good amount of time. The great thing about it is that you don't really need anybody's help and access is just a Retrace scroll away, so you can do it entirely on your own schedule in a way you can't really say for many things in FFXI, even now. I'd go nuts if I did it all in one push, but I can go bit by bit and take a break to do something else without taking anybody else into account.

I got a Coin of Glory over my lunch break today! Insane!

you hit the nail on the head there. SE WANTS you to burn time on all this stuff, if you've got nothing to do you have no reason to pay the fee. If you don't pay, they don't GET paid. I still say that Abyssea is a bandaid on the game. Since all the content is so easy to acheive you can finish it in a very short time... then what? You can go back and do the older content, but with 90+ jobs that won't take long unless it requires alot of running for CS. So, empy weaps, make several new ones, try 'em out, hopefully you make so many you need mule(s) to put them on and we get... MORE FEES!

[Ravenmore]

There are not 4 copies of Tammuz and chesma in each zone. How can you not count the NM leading up to the Abyssea NM if they are what it takes to make an empyrean weapon?You will not make a empyrean weapon in 2-3 days.

Learn to read. There is not 4 in each zone but there is 4 in 4 differnt zones on a 1 hour repop.

[svengalis]

This really can't be stressed enough. For players without solid static groups where roles are clearly defined, I'd argue that the WoE path is even better, since going through the Coin leg of your weapon of choice is probably going to get you close to finishing several other weapons as well, and having solid gearsets for a variety of jobs is infinitely better for a solo-or-pug player than best-in-slot gear for one.

EDIT: In fairness, however, while coin-farming is pretty easy, even solo, and is a very low-risk, low-investment activity, it's not really fair to say it isn't time-consuming. The reality is it IS pretty tedious and random, and it really does take up a good amount of time. The great thing about it is that you don't really need anybody's help and access is just a Retrace scroll away, so you can do it entirely on your own schedule in a way you can't really say for many things in FFXI, even now. I'd go nuts if I did it all in one push, but I can go bit by bit and take a break to do something else without taking anybody else into account.

I got a Coin of Glory over my lunch break today! Insane!
Which woe are you guys are to solo? Explain please.

[blowfin]

Learn to read. There is not 4 in each zone but there is 4 in 4 differnt zones on a 1 hour repop.

For the final stage there`s only 3 in three different zones, plus you need 8 of them. So 2 hours at the minimum just waiting for enough repops.

[svengalis]

Learn to read. There is not 4 in each zone but there is 4 in 4 differnt zones on a 1 hour repop.

For Tammuz and Chesma there is only 3. You should take your own advice.

[CapnSavaHoe]

Don't insult people because YOU don't have the time to dedicate to the game to get empyrean. Why do you okay the game if you don't care about virtual goods? Why do you okay any

You must be retarded I guess... he insulted EVERYONE that don't have an Emp by calling them thrash, yet you say I insulted him? Stop riding you know what bro.


PS: Dedication to the game? Are you getting paid for this? Is it a sport or something? No, it is merely a past time, a form of entertainment. I rather DEDICATE myself to my family, my career, and continuing education [yes people, I said it, you should never stop learning].

[CapnSavaHoe]

I don't understand what you're saying. It sounds like your post is simply backing up my point that verethragna are very easy to acquire.

Ok, I'll bite. Relics are in a class of their own in time consuming and resource wasting. Emps are FREE, if you spend money on an Emp is because you are beyond lazy. Your statement is like saying there are 6x Hondas on the road per Porsche.

I understand that Emps are better, everything that is new is more than likely gonna be beterr that something that came out over 6yrs ago.

SE is up to their necks on complaints of people saying it takes them 2.5yrs to do a Relic, to lower the difficulty. Now SE brings out something to not only revive the game a little but to please some of the player base, and what do you know, people complain about it being so easy and overpowered. It is like they say in the retail business, you will never please every customer.

No one is denying that it is easier THAN relics, because that is obvious; we are merely disputing that eventhough SOME lucky few that have the time and manpower to bulldoze through the requirements of an Emp weapon found it easy or Zzzz, it does not mean EVERYONE does, and it sure as shit does not make them the standard of anything; for every Emp holder there are at least one hundred "gimped" players [myself included] that are trying to get it, not to fit in, but because it is the next step in the game, and because they are missing out on some cool looking WS's and gears, it is that simple.

[Dew]

Regardless of how easy the nms and vnms are you still have to finish them to do the collect trials. So ether way you can't get an emp till they are done, which is part of getting it done.

There are plenty of gimp emp holders. Pink Kanagis, Pearle Ukons, etc. Even when people have the good gear and emp, relic, or mythic they still can suck and not know how to play. I have seen too many gimps with Relics, Emps, and Mythics.

Yes, emps are an easy upgrade.

[Catsby]

Stuff.

This.

It doesn't matter if an idiot has an empyrean weapon because just like any weapon it will be significantly more powerful in the hands of somebody with decent gear/macros/a brain. Don't get angry, get better.

[blowfin]

I haven't really done much WoE, what's a rough time estimate on completing say... Ukon vs the -1 version?

[Byrth]

I haven't really done much WoE, what's a rough time estimate on completing say... Ukon vs the -1 version?

It depends on your resources.

People with a lot of resources will say 85 Ukon is faster than a 90 Maschu, but anyone can leech along in WoE solo.

[Greatguardian]

You must be retarded I guess... he insulted EVERYONE that don't have an Emp by calling them thrash, yet you say I insulted him? Stop riding you know what bro.


PS: Dedication to the game? Are you getting paid for this? Is it a sport or something? No, it is merely a past time, a form of entertainment. I rather DEDICATE myself to my family, my career, and continuing education [yes people, I said it, you should never stop learning].

Are you really just ignoring the reasonable responses and cherry-picking people to yell at? Because you seem awfully mad about something. Pulling the RL card in every single post from the get-go is never a good way to present your case.

Empyrean WS (WS, not weapons) are standard for everyone, period. Full Empyreans are standard for Endgamers. Not an Endgamer? No problem! Do a WoE weapon.

[blowfin]

It depends on your resources.

People with a lot of resources will say 85 Ukon is faster than a 90 Maschu, but anyone can leech along in WoE solo.

The idea would be to double up on both the Gun and GA from WoE. With any luck some people will want to come along. Getting pretty bored with Abyssea too so it might make a nice change.

[Atomic_Skull]

Even worse are those doing the NM paths, especially on an NM that's popular with several different trials.


Why would you compete over a trial NM?

[rog]

I guess you are the cool kid on the block because you got equipment with the blue rim around it? Gimme a break dude.
I'm willing to bet you didn't sing that tune up until YOU got your AF3+2.
My af3 consists of +2 head, legs and feet for rdm (lolrdm, not like i use the job anyway), +2 hat for blm, +1 legs for blm, and +1 feet for war. That is it. And guess what? I'll second him. If you do not have basic +1s, you are trash, and +2 is standard.

[rog]

Why would you compete over a trial NM?
I assumed he meant the last 3 trials.

[Arlan]

Are you really just ignoring the reasonable responses and cherry-picking people to yell at? Because you seem awfully mad about something. Pulling the RL card in every single post from the get-go is never a good way to present your case.

Empyrean WS (WS, not weapons) are standard for everyone, period. Full Empyreans are standard for Endgamers. Not an Endgamer? No problem! Do a WoE weapon.

You are the example of people who need to stop playing the game and start going out to open your eyes to reality. True gamers are gamers who want to game when they have time for a form of entertainment.

Pulling the "Real Life card" is the perfect thing to pull out considering that we PAY the play the game for our spare time with friends online in the Massive multiplayer Role playing game and it is SE's job, as the dev, to make the game playable, accessible, and enjoyable for all gamers to play.

If you have to Make your Real Life schedule revolve around a video game, that shows there is a problem.
If you have to dedicate your life to play a video game, there is a problem.

And there is a cure for that.

1. Suggest more playable content and enjoyable content for all players to play.
2. Play the game when you have time, but don't make the game your "TOP PRIORITY IN LIFE".

If you need to make the game the top priority in your life, then the problem is not only you but SE for motivating people who have no social life to engage more fantasy.

The Reality is, You pay to play.
The reality is, you need to get the money from somewhere in real life to pay to play.

The Real Life card is exactly what SE should look at to make the game more balanced for all players.
If you get everything done SOOOO FAST, then stop playing.
You need a break from the game, seriously.
Most of us have lives and still want to play game and acheive things.

I consider Emp Weapon, a Top Tier Weapon. Not a standard weapon.
Not everyone has the luxary time or patience for a simple weapon for 1 job.
Sorry to break it to you.

[Neisan_Quetz]

You missed his last sentence where he said you can do the WoE version if killing the Nms is too much for you.

[Darka]

@Arlan

4 Days for Chloris
4 for Ulhuadashi
About 2 weeks for Dragua since I had finals and played when I was free

All duo

How is that dedicating your life to a game, or revolving it around a game? Put it this way, any time you play to do anything at all, XP'ing, AF farming, whatever, you can kill some NMs. Even if it takes you a month or two, it isn't hard, doesn't require much dedication. The whole game is based on collecting equipment for your jobs, its the same thing, and trust me, getting an empyrean in 2 or however many months you need based on your playtime, will have a much larger impact on your playing performance than spending that same time collecting AF3+2. You don't need one, but they are pretty much becoming standard, I'm at the point I get shocked when I see a NIN without Kannagi. /shrug Do what you want, but don't pretend it's any different from spending that time farming other pieces or XP'ing more jobs.

lolRLcard.

[Panthera]

I think "gimped" is an overstatement.

If people are running about in LV 75 weapons at level 90, as so many do, that's gimped.

[Eeek]

Empyrean weapons are not beyond the reach of players with busy lives. A buddy of mine has a Masmune, and since he works so much, it took him about 5-6 months to complete the Level 85 version. It wasn't beyond his reach since he's patient, set a long-term goal, and worked on it when he had the time and people were available to help kill NMs.

This little anecdote is one reason why I absolutely love Empyreans weapons: they're accessible to most anyone who's willing to put forth the effort. Empyrean weapons do not require a huge wad of gil or an event-centric LS (like a Dynamis LS) to complete, either.

And for players who don't have friends willing and/or capable of killing Empyrean Weapon NMs, the WoE Empyreans can be made mostly solo and completely on one's own personal schedule.

Hell, I'll probably start work on a Twashtar after I come back from my 'enjoy the summer before the oppressive heat sets in' break. I'm already 3/50, 8/50, 18/75 without even trying, so why not? 2012 will probably roll around before I finish it, but that's fine by me. Like my buddy with a Masmune, I'm in no hurry.

[CapnSavaHoe]

Are you really just ignoring the reasonable responses and cherry-picking people to yell at? Because you seem awfully mad about something. Pulling the RL card in every single post from the get-go is never a good way to present your case.

Empyrean WS (WS, not weapons) are standard for everyone, period. Full Empyreans are standard for Endgamers. Not an Endgamer? No problem! Do a WoE weapon.


Mad? I'm laughing half of the time I'm reading the ignorance that comes out of people that once they get something believe gives them the right to put others down. You act like you are the cream of the crop of some BS, meanwhile there are hundreds if not thousands that play better than you and dont have half the shit you do.

[Eeek]

Mad? I'm laughing half of the time I'm reading the ignorance that comes out of people that once they get something believe gives them the right to put others down. You act like you are the cream of the crop of some BS, meanwhile there are hundreds if not thousands that play better than you and dont have half the shit you do.

You're amusing. Carry on~

EDIT: Also, your posts are excellent representations of Asura's Port Jeuno chatter. Nicely done.

[CapnSavaHoe]

You are the example of people who need to stop playing the game and start going out to open your eyes to reality. True gamers are gamers who want to game when they have time for a form of entertainment.

Pulling the "Real Life card" is the perfect thing to pull out considering that we PAY the play the game for our spare time with friends online in the Massive multiplayer Role playing game and it is SE's job, as the dev, to make the game playable, accessible, and enjoyable for all gamers to play.

If you have to Make your Real Life schedule revolve around a video game, that shows there is a problem.
If you have to dedicate your life to play a video game, there is a problem.

And there is a cure for that.

1. Suggest more playable content and enjoyable content for all players to play.
2. Play the game when you have time, but don't make the game your "TOP PRIORITY IN LIFE".

If you need to make the game the top priority in your life, then the problem is not only you but SE for motivating people who have no social life to engage more fantasy.

The Reality is, You pay to play.
The reality is, you need to get the money from somewhere in real life to pay to play.

The Real Life card is exactly what SE should look at to make the game more balanced for all players.
If you get everything done SOOOO FAST, then stop playing.
You need a break from the game, seriously.
Most of us have lives and still want to play game and acheive things.

I consider Emp Weapon, a Top Tier Weapon. Not a standard weapon.
Not everyone has the luxary time or patience for a simple weapon for 1 job.
Sorry to break it to you.

Glad to see there is still some gray matter in the heads of some of the players, THX! People see you defending something, and instantly is "OH, you mad, you got no skills.." BS, I'm willing to put money down on the fact that I probably have got more stuff ALONE, than 90% of the people that *** and moan about it being easy or that this or that is the standard. Come talk to me when you are getting a whole +1 set ALONE, not pick ups, not shouts. I know you could get 80% of the +1 alone easily, but once Body Seals come into play [special for NIN, where the bd seal holders spam -ga4 spells] then you will see why the other 90% of the population calls this topic ***.

[CapnSavaHoe]

You missed his last sentence where he said you can do the WoE version if killing the Nms is too much for you.

Yes that is true, but why should somene settle? I rather work at it and get the weapon and the WS, even if it means pissing off some people that see me as gimp or sub-standard.

[Neisan_Quetz]

I'd like to meet these hundreds if not thousands since most of the people I run into still sport aurore/teal/perle or some pieces of such.

EDIT: if you don't have the time and resources to obtain an Empyrean (no friends no time for Nms or whatever) then an Empyrean is not for you, it's no different than with Relic Weapons, just the Empyreans are considered easier to obtain.

[CapnSavaHoe]

Empyrean weapons are not beyond the reach of players with busy lives. A buddy of mine has a Masmune, and since he works so much, it took him about 5-6 months to complete the Level 85 version.

Yes, and that is totally fine. I myself, will basically get the Lv85 version in under 2 months, and the Lv90 in probably a month more; that is totally fine with me. The issue here is people think that getting it in a few weeks is the norm and that everyone should have it. You don't know what everyone got going on in RL, there are students, married people, single dads/moms playing this game and to the dislike of a lot of you REAL LIFE comes first. I don't give a %$@ if you call it me playing a card, if you are that lonely and desperate to have a game take up more than 50% of your day, then I suggest you get help.

[Eeek]

Glad to see there is still some gray matter in the heads of some of the players, THX! People see you defending something, and instantly is "OH, you mad, you got no skills.." BS, I'm willing to put money down on the fact that I probably have got more stuff ALONE, than 90% of the people that *** and moan about it being easy or that this or that is the standard. Come talk to me when you are getting a whole +1 set ALONE, not pick ups, not shouts. I know you could get 80% of the +1 alone easily, but once Body Seals come into play [special for NIN, where the bd seal holders spam -ga4 spells] then you will see why the other 90% of the population calls this topic ***.

Yaguarogui (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Yaguarogui) doesn't cast any spells, and he's really easy to kill. Nice try though, CapnPortJeuno.

Also, I think we all now know why you do so much alone. :)

[CapnSavaHoe]

You're amusing. Carry on~

EDIT: Also, your posts are excellent representations of Asura's Port Jeuno chatter. Nicely done.

That's funny, because from the reading I've done, that is your topic of choice.

[CapnSavaHoe]

Yaguarogui (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Yaguarogui) doesn't cast any spells, and he's really easy to kill. Nice try though, CapnPortJeuno.

Also, I think we all now know why you do so much alone. :)

More ignorance, I'll bite. Everyone that does Iga set knows that tiger hardly ever drops iga seals. But it is nice that you chose the lowest mob of the list.

[CapnSavaHoe]

I'd like to meet these hundreds if not thousands since most of the people I run into still sport aurore/teal/perle or some pieces of such.

EDIT: if you don't have the time and resources to obtain an Empyrean (no friends no time for Nms or whatever) then an Empyrean is not for you, it's no different than with Relic Weapons, just the Empyreans are considered easier to obtain.

They are all around you dude, lol.

Let me ask this, how many of the "supporters" of this BS have been playing since Abyssea was introduced? I bet mostly all. Meanwhile a lot of people came back this year, myself included, and yet you look down on them because they dont have something that you had about a year to work on?

[Neisan_Quetz]

I don't look down on anyone who came back and is trying to get themselves geared for the new levels, I look down on people who don't care and don't even try.

[CapnSavaHoe]

I don't look down on anyone who came back and is trying to get themselves geared for the new levels, I look down on people who don't care and don't even try.

But why? Just ignore them if they have such an effect on you. Maybe they just want to play to play; to talk to friends they've met online. Is that such a shameful behavior?

[Glamdring]

Why would you compete over a trial NM?

to not have to share Briareus helms, etc?

[MarkovChain]

I'm just going to come right out and say it. Empyreans are now so easy, and their performance so far beyond "normal" weapons that if a job doesn't have one it is essentially gimped. They are simple enough to upgrade that they can be considered standard equipment now.

Especially now that leveling has become so fast, the couple weeks to upgrade your empyrean once you reach lvl 90 can be considered part of leveling a job.

You are correct, when I got mine I felt the same as unlocking my pair of destroyers. Awaiting for lvl 99, focusing on relics until then.

[Alukat]

even if u call them standart, i would rather go for relic as for emp.

[svengalis]

More ignorance, I'll bite. Everyone that does Iga set knows that tiger hardly ever drops iga seals. But it is nice that you chose the lowest mob of the list.

Everyone I know myself included has farm this tiger for nin body seals. The drop rate is not that bad.

[Yarly]

So funny how people refuse to believe how relatively easy an empyrean weapon is to obtain for a casual player (2-3 hours/day) and how easier it would be for some hardcore player with "no life" when you compare it to a relic or mythic weapon.

[CapnSavaHoe]

So funny how people refuse to believe how relatively easy an empyrean weapon is to obtain for a casual player (2-3 hours/day) and how easier it would be for some hardcore player with "no life" when you compare it to a relic or mythic weapon.

No one is disputing that they are easier than relics or mythics. We are [at least I am] disputing that it is not as easy as people want to make it appear to be, the way some people describe it is as if it were like getting the Lv40 weapon.

[CapnSavaHoe]

Everyone I know myself included has farm this tiger for nin body seals. The drop rate is not that bad.

And I'm guessing you took people to Grellow Proc it, correct? I said alone, go get Iga seals off that *** without proc'ing it, then let me know how "not bad" the drop rate is. I killed it 10 times and got not one seal from it.

PS: Funny how SE states all over the damn place that "Proc's are loaded the moment the mob is claimed and are based on the spells and weapon skills in the current party"... ***!

[scaevola]

Which woe are you guys are to solo? Explain please.

Basically just killed trash mobs in 1, 2, and 3, and avoid the bosses; even if you were capable of soloing them it'd take a half an hour so it's not really worth it. I imagine most non-kiting soloers could handle WoE with varying degrees of difficulty though obviously some (NIN/DNC, DNC/NIN, BST, DRG/BLU, PLD or BLU using Sanguine Blade exclusively, etc.) are going to do a lot better than others.

[Neisan_Quetz]

And I'm guessing you took people to Grellow Proc it, correct? I said alone, go get Iga seals off that *** without proc'ing it, then let me know how "not bad" the drop rate is. I killed it 10 times and got not one seal from it.

PS: Funny how SE states all over the damn place that "Proc's are loaded the moment the mob is claimed and are based on the spells and weapon skills in the current party"... ***!

Uh, that's for Neo-Dynamis, definitely not Abyssea... And that's your own fault for not procing because the drop rate is terrible for any seal without procs.

[MarkovChain]

And this is why AF3+2/weapon is standard gear. It is standard gear for people that play the MMO called FFXI. Get friends and it will make your FFXI easier. Just brew it ™ after that obviously. Granted if you go with the idea not to proc a single AF3 mob nor use treasure hunter and/or red procs on any of the pop NMs or the NM itself, you are facing a wall. It's your choice to do it solo, so don't complain. Just need one friend lol and if you have 6 people to carry your KI you can brew the level85/90 NMs 6 by 6 which makes is a matter of a few hours (both KI farming + killing) just for the last form for instance.

[Seriha]

In a perfect world with no competition and friends at the ready the moment they log on, I could possibly see someone who plays 2-3 hours a day getting 6-12 upgrade items, but part of that will also hinge on the weapon path. People will go through Carabosse much more quickly than Glavoid, for example. I can't bring myself to say someone who plays 14-21 hours a week is casual, though. 2-3 hours every 2-3 days? Sure. Other guy? He's basically part-time jobbing the game. Now, this goes out the window if you get people farming the pops while they're not around, but I can't even begin to think that's common, especially before +2 items were added to various NMs.

In the FFXI I play, people never show up on time, have their own RL obligations/distractions, and generally want their own things, too. So, Mr. 2-3 hours is probably gonna be 1-2 by the time everyone gets their act together and organized. Then you run into the lines at the popped mobs or get unlucky with cleaves, both in KIs offered or available zone chests with others cleaving. 3-6 upgrade items a day is looking far more likely here. Now imagine that every 3 days.

WoE might be nice if you can score some slime runs, but you're still a slave to the random number generator and trying to solo up the coins could take a long time (WoE itself still needs work). To expect people to do nothing but this or fudge around in Abyssea every day they can play for a singular purpose is, well, silly. They'll possibly want to EXP another job, help a friend/shellmate with something, or just hop on to chat after a particularly tiring day. These types are the ones making up a greater chunk of the player base, and probably are the full perle/teal/aurore folks everyone loves to whine about, but their continued presence and lack of what some believe to be standard gear lends itself to the possibility that something isn't standard at all. For these people, taking 3+ months is far more likely, and in MMO time, that's pretty huge when you start climbing down the hierarchy of time invested in-game.

[Ravenmore]

Only time I whine about pearl is when people mix and match it with other gear and losing the set bouns. Thats taking into account that fumes and dusk gloves are 10 to 20 k and harby +1 is around 100 to 200k. Its not even new people that do that what I see most is turban and kitty pants. As long as they make gear choices that are not WTF and make since I don't care what they use.

[Ravenmore]

Some thing else I fogot to mention was the weapons them selfs are not what make emps. all that special. If you could get the WSs with out making them or the WoEs verson like mystics WS lot less people would bother making them.

[rog]

Only time I whine about pearl is when people mix and match it with other gear and losing the set bouns. Thats taking into account that fumes and dusk gloves are 10 to 20 k and harby +1 is around 100 to 200k. Its not even new people that do that what I see most is turban and kitty pants. As long as they make gear choices that are not WTF and make since I don't care what they use.I love when people 4/5 perle.

[Neisan_Quetz]

No less than half the Bsts without Emp gear I run into are 4/5 perle and Aurore gloves/legs I swear and I know it's a Bst because they're on both sets...

[Raksha]

PS: Funny how SE states all over the damn place that "Proc's are loaded the moment the mob is claimed and are based on the spells and weapon skills in the current party"... ***!

I must've missed it, where did you read this?

[Greatguardian]

SE never stated it. The players determined it, through testing, to be true for Dynamis triggers. Little bit of knowledge, more dangerous than none at all, etc

[Yarly]

No one is disputing that they are easier than relics or mythics. We are [at least I am] disputing that it is not as easy as people want to make it appear to be, the way some people describe it is as if it were like getting the Lv40 weapon.

It may vary well be just as easy. The beginning NM trials for the weapons can be done leisurely once or twice a day. Probably either just before logging out or just after logging in. I know I used to camp NMs during my breaks at university. It requires about zero attention, so if you think I'd be sitting there with eyes glued to the screen waiting for placeholders, you're wrong. If you think ANYONE does that, you're pretty delusional.
When you get to the VNM stages, it gets a tad harder. Then you'd need shout groups or friends. If you don't have friends, you might want to re-evaluate why you're even playing FFXI at all. Doing things solo in a game that is built around team play is dumb and bragging about it is even worse. VNM can be technically done in one night if you're all setup for it but realistically you're looking at about 1-2 nights of casual killing for each VNM. It doesn't have to be consecutive nights, mind you. Get 2-3 kills each run, then go about the rest of your day.

The next 100 items for the 2 stages can be purchased off of players shouting, or you could get your friends to help you out or you can do a mixture of both. Casual farming for these items would take about a month of your time. Then presto you have a level 85 empyrean weapon.

Total time spent is probably 3 months of casual playing and you're not slaving away at your computer wiping the blood from your bleeding eyes. You're not flunking out of school because you skipped classes to build pop sets. Your real life isn't affected any more than if you were just playing the game to have fun. Sure, 3 months is a long time but most people work on relic and mythic weapons for at least a year but of course you can get them just as fast, if not faster. So here you are, not slaving away at the game and you have a weapon that is most likely better than the mythic or relic equivalent.

It's standard gear because it's readily available and easily accessible.

[Byrth]

SE never stated it. The players determined it, through testing, to be true for Dynamis triggers. Little bit of knowledge, more dangerous than none at all, etc

I think this is actually a common misconception about the Dynamis proc system. Any ability of the right category can proc them, and there's just a certain probability of it happening. So any Weaponskill for the right set of mobs. Any Job Ability for the right set of mobs. Any Spell for the right set of mobs. You just need to spam. It has nothing to do with your current jobs.

[Greatguardian]

I think this is actually a common misconception about the Dynamis proc system. Any ability of the right category can proc them, and there's just a certain probability of it happening. So any Weaponskill for the right set of mobs. Any Job Ability for the right set of mobs. Any Spell for the right set of mobs. You just need to spam. It has nothing to do with your current jobs.

Ironing! I had completely forgotten about that. Go figure.

[Dallas]

i the ele -perp staffs are better then any emp weapon on the sole fact that its for once geared towards out jobs.

<fast forward>

I saw a summoner with all +2 gear and hell even the Nirvana lvl 90 and outside abyssea they were out of mp in what seemed like 5min's while myself with just the +1 gear and only titan's staff completed was up and running for the whole fight without rest and only needed 1 syphon.

Myrkr is essentially unlimited mp, and you only get that if you force yourself to do the most DD as well. It blows the other two big name staves out of the water.

Sounds like the Nirvana guy is just lazy. Don't compare yourself to him, as he was doing more damage than you.