I hate you square enix.

[Raez]

Yes, I loathe you. If there is a hell, it would be navigating your menus.

Seventeen times I must tell you I want to log in, not including clicking in the password. Is there no way you can make this one button, or at least make it less than ten?

Every menu has a confirmation box to confirm whether you wish to confirm your choice. Putting up an auction has you pick your item, put in the price, confirm thats the price, confirm that theres a fee, then confirm you still want to put in the item. YES YES YES is there no way to disable these asinine confirmation windows?

That was just an example. It wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't pervasive through the game. Remember trying to pay them? They ad SIXTEEN steps, not including a menu to open a menu to open a menu so you can close two so you can go to the next step.

Chocobo raising? Would you like to tell a story? Yes! OK, are you sure? YES!!! OK, pick one...

- If there is already an option to go back, stop giving me confirmation windows, I can select return all by my self.

Chocobo racing? An entirely frustrating experience. Not only does the guy only hold ONE item but he makes you read and hit OK three times every time you give him one. Then you need to reselect the item, and he asks you if this is the one you want... AGAIN.

- If there is already an option to go back, STOP GIVING ME CONFIRMATION WINDOWS, I can select return all by my self.

I guess you didn't learn and won't but hey at least FFXIV is failing.

[Nebo]

I don't know what it is about the official forums that attracts disrespectful, mouth breathing morons but it appears to be getting worse.

[Raez]

The irony is overflowing!

[Romanova]

That's a lot of hate over a few menus.

[Raksha]

There's already a thread about this.

And for what it's worth he's right.

[Ravenmore]

He is right but respectful post addressing the Devs might get looked at.

[Raksha]

He is right but respectful post addressing the Devs might get looked at.

Yeah sure but the devs have already said it'd be too much work to fix all these menus. Not that i'm defending him or anything.

[Tamoa]

And yet, despite all these confirmation windows, people still place the wrong thing for sale at the AH, or for the wrong price, or bid too much or on the wrong item.

[Alkalinehoe]

Just spam enter k?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just spam enter k?No, that doesn't work. lol
Most menus are preset to "no."

[Alkalinehoe]

No, that doesn't work. lol
Most menus are preset to "no."

Ok? I just spam enter and click the arrows and I can enter just fine (concerning the POL>FFXI process). Only thing i have to press the arrow key for is the accept thing when you exit POL and enter the game.

[Raksha]

Ok? I just spam enter and click the arrows and I can enter just fine (concerning the POL>FFXI process). Only thing i have to press the arrow key for is the accept thing when you exit POL and enter the game.

Imagine how much easier your life would be if you didn't have to spam enter and click arrows all the time. All the little things add up.

[Alkalinehoe]

Imagine how much easier your life would be if you didn't have to spam enter and click arrows all the time. All the little things add up.
Or maybe people can just get over it and realizes it isn't much of a hassle at all?

[rog]

Hello sir, i see you want to buy some bread, is that right?
> yes, i would like to buy this bread.
Oh, you don't want to buy that bread?
> Yes, i would like to buy the bread.
Ok, the price is $2.51, that is not ok, is it?
> No, that is ok, i will buy it.
The tax is $.15, in that case i guess you don't want to buy it?
> No, i would still like to buy the bread.
Ok, then the total including tax is $2.66, you don't want to buy it do you?
> Yes i would still like to buy it.
How will you be paying, credit, or cash?
> I will pay with cash.
Oh, you don't want to pay with cash?
> I will pay with cash.
Ok, great. Here is your change, $2.34. Would you like a bag?
> Yes, i want a bag.
You don't want a bag?
> No, i would like a bad.




Ffxi in a nutshell.

[Raksha]

Or maybe people can just get over it and realizes it isn't much of a hassle at all?

All those little hassles add up though.

[Alkalinehoe]

All those little hassles add up though.
I'm sorry you seem to have trouble dealing with small things?

[Miera]

Oh, that's a great way to get the Devs attention.

[Raez]

I'm sorry you seem to have trouble dealing with small things?

I'm going to assume you have a cell phone. I am going to assume you have numbers stored on your cell phone. I ask you this. Would it be awesome if every time you made a phone call you had to dial the full number? I mean 1 555 555 5555 every time. Every text. Every call. Its easy once. maybe twice. What if you had to make three texts in a row?

1 555 555 5555 hi
1 555 555 5555 yea sorry i have to type the numbers out each time
1 555 555 5555 grrr why can't I store this.

It would be frustrating. Just imagine if there was a two second wait after each number you pressed.

[Alkalinehoe]

I'm going to assume you have a cell phone. I am going to assume you have numbers stored on your cell phone. I ask you this. Would it be awesome if every time you made a phone call you had to dial the full number? I mean 1 555 555 5555 every time. Every text. Every call. Its easy once. maybe twice. What if you had to make three texts in a row?

1 555 555 5555 hi
1 555 555 5555 yea sorry i have to type the numbers out each time
1 555 555 5555 grrr why can't I store this.

It would be frustrating. Just imagine if there was a two second wait after each number you pressed.
Except you're trying to make it sound harder than it really is. You just need to keep hitting enter and the the left arrow key twice to log in (after putting your password in). There are no patterns of numbers you need to memorize, there is no extended typing sequences.

[Huevriel]

Chocobo racing? An entirely frustrating experience. Not only does the guy only hold ONE item but he makes you read and hit OK three times every time you give him one. Then you need to reselect the item, and he asks you if this is the one you want... AGAIN.


I feel you on this one. Please dev people. Allow the NPC to hold more than 1 chocobo item for you. PLEEAAASE. I'm tired of trading apples every single time.

[Raez]

Except you're trying to make it sound harder than it really is. You just need to keep hitting enter and the the left arrow key twice to log in (after putting your password in). There are no patterns of numbers you need to memorize, there is no extended typing sequences.

You must be delusional. Let me walk you through the login process.

1. Double click icon -no wait
2. Click play-online id - no wait
3. Click "Login" button" - no wait
4. Click blank PW box - no wait
5. Enter PW without typing - mildly annoying
6. Click OK this is your PW "Circle" - no wait
7. Click Connect - 15~ seconds before you can click ffxi top menu
8. Click FFXI top menu 5~ seconds
9. Click play - no wait
10. Click Close - no wait
11. Click play... AGAIN - 10~ seconds
12. Click accept - 5~ seconds
13. Click Select character - no wait
14. Select your character - no wait
15. Select you wish to enter - 10~ seconds.

<Congratulations!> You have entered the game.
So I was wrong. only fifteen steps instead of seventeen.

Lets compare that to say.... World of Warcraft.

1. Click icon. - no wait
2. Enter password - 4~ seconds
3. hit enter - no wait
(optional) select a different character than you last played - no wait
4. press enter game. - 10~ seconds

Done. What the hell is wrong here? This is just the login. Ever try to put seven auctions up?

[Raksha]

I'm sorry you seem to have trouble dealing with small things?

I know there's a quesion mark at the end of that sentence, but it doesn't read as a question.

I never said I have trouble with it, unless you consider being annoyed to be trouble.

Spamming enter when it isn't necessary is a waste of time. If you think SE should be focusing on other things like PS2 rumbling and unreadable fonts then we have a difference of opinion.

[Alkalinehoe]

You must be delusional. Let me walk you through the login process.

[Removed cause it's unnecessary and you can have it brought up immediatly by checking on th auto login box]
5. Enter PW without typing - mildly annoying [It's necessary]
6. Click OK this is your PW "Circle" - no wait
[IDK about you but a shortcut comes up on mine that takes you to the FFXI page automatically. The cursor defaults to it so you merely just have to press enter]
9. Click play - no wait
[Never seen this step?]
11. Click play... AGAIN - 10~ seconds
12. Click accept - 5~ seconds
13. Click Select character - no wait
14. Select your character - no wait
15. Select you wish to enter - 10~ seconds.

<Congratulations!> You have entered the game.
So I was wrong. only fifteen steps instead of seventeen.

Lets compare that to say.... World of Warcraft.

1. Click icon. - no wait
2. Enter password - 4~ seconds
3. hit enter - no wait
(optional) select a different character than you last played - no wait
4. press enter game. - 10~ seconds

Done. What the hell is wrong here? This is just the login. Ever try to put seven auctions up?
FTFY, you're not taking any of the shortcuts and using your mouse (lol) to click everything. Of course you're mad about it. I nearly halved your steps. Most of what is left can be gotten through just by hitting enter.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Ok? I just spam enter and click the arrows and I can enter just fine (concerning the POL>FFXI process). Only thing i have to press the arrow key for is the accept thing when you exit POL and enter the game.Click? Your hand touches the mouse? lol

[rog]

Yeah...you basically just spam enter to log in. Honestly the most annoying thing is having to hit enter because you type your password, which is entirely unintuitive, but only takes half a second, so not a big deal (until you forget to hit enter, type your password, then realize you forgot to hit enter, and have to type it again). It could be faster, but it really does not take long.

[Alkalinehoe]

Click? Your hand touches the mouse? lol

Keyboard arrows obviously.

[Leonlionheart]

When comparing to WoW...

Playonline is the only thing preventing FFXI players from moving to free servers. Even if Private Servers were available you'd still need to go through Playonline to access them, and therefore pay SE.

Although there is a way to skip all that, but it was buggy and very much so disproved of by the developers of the private server.

[Raez]

Focus on the playonline thing sure. I'll get to that in a second. Good luck trying to say that confirming things three times is necessary.

Heres an example of a good confimation window: Purchasing conquest items. It displays the item, then if you can't equip it, it tells you and since you cannot return the item it asks you if you wish to purchase. Thank you, I appreciate that.

An example of a bad menu I've provided many times is the auction house. You can read that back in the original post. Also, if you think setting up billing was a breeze you're a masochist. Theres a whole page dedicated to just one drop down menu. What the hell.

Alkalinehoe, you can't just remove steps (you have to click the ffxi icon at some point to bring up POL) because you want to, and hitting enter ADDS some steps, IE button presses. The "Never seen this step" is the phishing spam crap if you can tell me how to get rid of it I'd appreciate it.

Also, if POL was the only issue I would not have spent the time doing all the internet footwork to link accounts and make a SE account to vent on the forum. The UI/Menus are frustrating and so backwards.

[Arlan]

And yet, despite all these confirmation windows, people still place the wrong thing for sale at the AH, or for the wrong price, or bid too much or on the wrong item.

...Ya
Umm...

I do that sometimes lol

[Alkalinehoe]

Focus on the playonline thing sure. I'll get to that in a second. Good luck trying to say that confirming things three times is necessary.

Heres an example of a good confimation window: Purchasing conquest items. It displays the item, then if you can't equip it, it tells you and since you cannot return the item it asks you if you wish to purchase. Thank you, I appreciate that.

An example of a bad menu I've provided many times is the auction house. You can read that back in the original post. Also, if you think setting up billing was a breeze you're a masochist. Theres a whole page dedicated to just one drop down menu. What the hell.

Alkalinehoe, you can't just remove steps (you have to click the ffxi icon at some point to bring up POL) because you want to, and hitting enter ADDS some steps, IE button presses. The "Never seen this step" is the phishing spam crap if you can tell me how to get rid of it I'd appreciate it.

Also, if POL was the only issue I would not have spent the time doing all the internet footwork to link accounts and make a SE account to vent on the forum. The UI/Menus are frustrating and so backwards.
I don't get why you have to double click FFXI and POL icons? Wouldn't you just need to do either/or? It's a moot point since all programs/games/applications require you to start them up. I figured you wouldn't have to resort to adding pointless steps, now I'm surprised you didn't include turning on your PC as one of the requirements. 3 isn't necessary because of the auto-login feature bringing you up to the handle. 4 you can just hit enter and it'll open/close the password input. I forgot about that little notice, I guess it's because I just keep hitting enter and usually am watching TV while I do that. I'm not saying that the process couldn't be cleaned up, but most people here seem to think of it as walking 5 miles compared to logging into other MMOs, which isn't true.

[Yarly]

The irony is overflowing!

It's so funny because it's so true. Pot. Ketttle. Black. etc.

[Yarly]

FTFY, you're not taking any of the shortcuts and using your mouse (lol) to click everything. Of course you're mad about it. I nearly halved your steps. Most of what is left can be gotten through just by hitting enter.

You nearly halved his steps for someone with access to only a SINGLE account. Many, many people have access to multiple accounts, be it friends/family/mule accounts. The amount of people who only have ONE pol ID in their list is a small minority of people.

Also, STEP#10 "click close" is something you see at LEAAST once every month (when they do billling to remind you about the billing period) but it's also used for just general notices/reminders about version updates. You've never seen this? You obviously don't even PLAY ffxi as far as anyone can tell.

Also, he totally cut down the time by a TON. All those "no wait" time frames are usually at least 2-3 seconds each. There's the stupid animation for buttons and dialogs to fade/slide in. It's stupid and the OP is actually downplaying just exactly how tedious logging in from start to finish really is.

[rog]

Also, STEP#10 "click close" is something you see at LEAAST once every month (when they do billling to remind you about the billing period) but it's also used for just general notices/reminders about version updates.
All the cool kids stay logged in for months at a time, and never see that.

[Alkalinehoe]

You nearly halved his steps for someone with access to only a SINGLE account. Many, many people have access to multiple accounts, be it friends/family/mule accounts. The amount of people who only have ONE pol ID in their list is a small minority of people.

Also, STEP#10 "click close" is something you see at LEAAST once every month (when they do billling to remind you about the billing period) but it's also used for just general notices/reminders about version updates. You've never seen this? You obviously don't even PLAY ffxi as far as anyone can tell.

Also, he totally cut down the time by a TON. All those "no wait" time frames are usually at least 2-3 seconds each. There's the stupid animation for buttons and dialogs to fade/slide in. It's stupid and the OP is actually downplaying just exactly how tedious logging in from start to finish really is.
I don't understand why you would share the same accounts on the same platform. Dual-boxing I can understand, even though I don't feel it's all that common as you portray, but if you are playing with family/friends they could just use their own.

I timed myself to see how long it took me to log in. I measured myself from the time I could enter my password on the screen (which is what pops up for me first) to the point where I could see the <welcome to Leviathian> message.

Start: 1:27:25
End: 1:28:36
Total time: 1min 11 seconds.
I don't think that's terrible at all.

Now let's go see how long it takes me to boot up Rift. (I lol'd cause I actually had to wait for a 10 min patch first time I tried). I started from when I could enter password and ended when the world loaded.
Start:1:43:00AM
End: 1:44:33
Total: 1min 33 seconds
I think FFXI was the faster option.

[RAIST]

login process is not a good example for the argument...I never even touch my mouse for FFXI:

I have my system set for auto login. I hit the power button and go fix a drink or something while the desktop loads. Have an icon for calling my ATI profile and launching FFXI--assigned a shortcut key combo to this shortcut. Hit that combo and spam enter a few times, pickup my PS2 controller and use the arrow keys and such to enter my password, navigate all the way to game launch, pick my toon (sometimes I even hit the shoulder buttons to save my macros and such), and then go into the game. Everything I need to do (except for chat and entering numbers on chests) is done with my controller--so I never need the mouse in-game. I also have short-cut key combos on desktop icons to call full shutdown, reboot, and hibernation--but it's more a reflexive action to just hit ALT-F4 to pull up the Windows shutdown menu and hit the right letter (U or R) then <enter> to power things down or reboot.

The bigger issue is with the redundant menus in-game. While some are necessary to prevent us from screwing ourselves, most of these could use some cleaning up (Synergy is one of the more serious offenders). But, as was already mentioned, SE doesn't think it is a good way to spend their already limited resources atm.

[Raez]

Just imagine if it took you one minute and eleven seconds to open the door to your house. You would be pretty mad.

[Alkalinehoe]

Just imagine if it took you one minute and eleven seconds to open the door to your house. You would be pretty mad.
I'm already mad that it takes time for my food to cook.

[Raxiaz]

Now you're just depicting FFXI as being your life, lmao.

[Bubeeky]

The bigger issue is with the redundant menus in-game. While some are necessary to prevent us from screwing ourselves, most of these could use some cleaning up (Synergy is one of the more serious offenders). But, as was already mentioned, SE doesn't think it is a good way to spend their already limited resources atm.

I totally agree...the login method is not really significantly better or worse than any other MMO...the real annoyance is the in game stuff...I repeatedly fail synergy synths because of the stupid menu system in game...

[Hanabira]

And yet, despite all these confirmation windows, people still place the wrong thing for sale at the AH, or for the wrong price, or bid too much or on the wrong item.

this is because we have to spam enter


Just spam enter k?

we would never get anything done if we read every single option and confirmation. granted if youre adding 1 item and do it wrong, you fail. but when youre adding 7, its easy to accidentally go to the wrong item, or forget to push left again resulting in you selling a 1mil item for 100k as seen here with a martial knife

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Koziki

by auction entry #4 im usually jamming my finger into the enter key like a madman highly annoyed


oh, and the worst are dialogs that pop up after a few second delay, but dont require click from the enter key. so during the delay, your reaction is to hit Enter, then you accidentally confirm NO and get to do it over again!!

[Seyrena]

1. Spam enter until you come to password text field.
2. Enter PW by typing it in when the soft keyboard screen comes up. Yeah, that's right, with your real keyboard. Then hit Enter.
3. Hit Left Arrow Key, then Enter.
4. [IDK about you but a shortcut comes up on mine that takes you to the FFXI page automatically. The cursor defaults to it so you merely just have to press enter] ...twice. And it takes about 8 seconds for that to load.
5. Hit enter again after 5 seconds when the cursor defaults to "Play".
6. Exit out of the Terms of Service by hitting the Left Arrow Key, then Enter - no wait
7. Hit enter to press play... AGAIN, then 15 seconds of loading time.
8. Hit enter to accept, then 5 seconds.
9. Hit enter to Select character - no wait
10. (arrow keys, then) Hit enter to select your character - no wait
11. Hit enter to play as that character, then 10 seconds wait.
Unless I want to login to my mule, Steps 7-11 are one step: Spam Enter.
I fixed your login process. Again.

The issue here is not the complexity of the input. The issue here is the loading time, which is abysmal. I would give my left pinky toe to be able to skip Step 4 and just have it load the FFXI screen when I input my password instead of sitting through the loading process of PlayOnline, which I'll NEVER use except for Service and Support, which could easily be integrated into the FFXI screen.

Also, I think that the real problem is that they're using a service they designed for the Playstation 2, to be navigated with a directional pad and the 'X' button.

On a side note, notice how many times I said Hit Enter.
Also note how I mentioned that you don't have to use the clicky software keyboard to input your password - just start typing it in when the soft keyboard shows up, and it'll start showing up in the text field at the top.

[Nebo]

The irony is overflowing!


lol.

The irony is that there is already a thread that covers this.

The irony is that the idiotic nature of your post only masks the fact that you have a good point, and that it will probably be overlooked by anyone that you would want to listen to you and fix it (if the community team hadn't already addressed this concern directly in the other thread).

[Sama]

He's right I don't know where SE got that kind of people who made that POL log-in it's crazy.

[Kwate]

Yes, I loathe you. If there is a hell, it would be navigating your menus.

Seventeen times I must tell you I want to log in, not including clicking in the password. Is there no way you can make this one button, or at least make it less than ten?

Every menu has a confirmation box to confirm whether you wish to confirm your choice. Putting up an auction has you pick your item, put in the price, confirm thats the price, confirm that theres a fee, then confirm you still want to put in the item. YES YES YES is there no way to disable these asinine confirmation windows?

That was just an example. It wouldn't be so bad if this wasn't pervasive through the game. Remember trying to pay them? They ad SIXTEEN steps, not including a menu to open a menu to open a menu so you can close two so you can go to the next step.

Chocobo raising? Would you like to tell a story? Yes! OK, are you sure? YES!!! OK, pick one...

- If there is already an option to go back, stop giving me confirmation windows, I can select return all by my self.

Chocobo racing? An entirely frustrating experience. Not only does the guy only hold ONE item but he makes you read and hit OK three times every time you give him one. Then you need to reselect the item, and he asks you if this is the one you want... AGAIN.

- If there is already an option to go back, STOP GIVING ME CONFIRMATION WINDOWS, I can select return all by my self.

I guess you didn't learn and won't but hey at least FFXIV is failing.

GTFO

123456789

[Kindra]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Nyzule Isle Assault Orders lol. Maybe its just me on that one.

[RAIST]

you also don't have to wait for all the POL crap to load after sign-in...as soon as my cursor pops up (prior to all the FL, messages, graphics and crap), I can go right to the launch screen.

[Sama]

Is it possible to have a separate desktop icon, which only need you to launch, punch pw, then go straight into character selection screen?

[Raez]

I'm not sure why hitting enter instead of clicking is saving me steps. One button press is as difficult as any other.

You also don't have to be a sycophant to post "oh please Square - Enix fix the menus" They probably have enough yes men at their office, thats why theres this problem.

On a side note. This is how pervasive it is, click log out up in the corner there.

"Are you sure you wish to log out?" Really? No, I clicked the button because I wanted to go to Google.

[blowfin]

I'm not sure why hitting enter instead of clicking is saving me steps. One button press is as difficult as any other.

Saves you taking your hands off the keyboard.


Regardless, the menus and confirmations in FFXI are terribad.

Dominion reward NPCs is really all you needed to say.

[Seyrena]

you also don't have to wait for all the POL crap to load after sign-in...as soon as my cursor pops up (prior to all the FL, messages, graphics and crap), I can go right to the launch screen.This still takes about 8 seconds of loading friend lists and things that other MMOs do instantly as an integrated part of the game.

[RAIST]

chaulk it up to multiple server lag I guess...the game is hitting like 6 different servers just getting you into POL. Then its a few more before your toon loads in the game. Newer games were built from the ground up on newer technologies that simply have less lag in their core design, simply because there are fewer pieces in the puzzle. Only way to eliminate that lag is to restructure the core design of the game...don't hold your breath on that happening anytime soon.

[Seyrena]

chaulk it up to multiple server lag I guess...the game is hitting like 6 different servers just getting you into POL. Then its a few more before your toon loads in the game. Newer games were built from the ground up on newer technologies that simply have less lag in their core design, simply because there are fewer pieces in the puzzle. Only way to eliminate that lag is to restructure the core design of the game...don't hold your breath on that happening anytime soon.It seems to me more and more like that's exactly what's needed.

One thing I find immensely troubling is Square-Enix's reticence on the whole to trust their user base when it comes to the user interface, or barring that, at least their apparent attitude that hindrance equals efficiency. And once again, I think the problem stems largely from the fact that this MMO is designed to be identical on three platforms.

Look at WoW. Every time users have come up with an improvement using Blizzard's API, Blizzard has a tendency to simply incorporate it into the official UI, almost always to the ease and benefit of the players. But the reason they are able to do this is because they don't have an entire user base that suffers from the limitations of being split across multiple game platforms. I believe that that, as well as a prohibitive, authoritarian stance on user-generated interface modifications, is why FFXI's UI remains nearly identical to its state at release, and hence why it feels so dated.

I mean, at least get on the ball about Japanese IME in the English client - you've had nine years to hash this out with Microsoft!

[Catsby]

The game's front end is awful and half of FFXI is menu dancing. It seems like FFXI was designed around fighting or getting information from NPCs. Everything else has to derive from one of those functions and always seems to go back to a menu. I've said it countless times but once more with gusto, FFXI needs massive interface overhauls.

[Leonlionheart]

chaulk it up to multiple server lag I guess...the game is hitting like 6 different servers just getting you into POL. Then its a few more before your toon loads in the game. Newer games were built from the ground up on newer technologies that simply have less lag in their core design, simply because there are fewer pieces in the puzzle. Only way to eliminate that lag is to restructure the core design of the game...don't hold your breath on that happening anytime soon.

You spelled character or char. wrong, it's not spelled toon.

[RAIST]

You spelled character or char. wrong, it's not spelled toon.

nice +1

It is a common slang term for your character/avatar...helluva lot easier to type too.

[rog]

nice +1

It is a common slang term for your character/avatar...helluva lot easier to type too.
toon is easier to type than char? Funny, i thought it was the other way around.

[RAIST]

one-handed typing with right hand while using the controller in my left....yeah, it's easier. A heck of a lot easier than another term used a lot: "alt"

[rog]

You use a controller to browse forums?

[RAIST]

Laptop for forums... PC for game. But it is a habit that has developed from the game. Most everyone I know calls it a toon, mule, or alt more than they call it their character.

[Zyeriis]

Laptop for forums... PC for game. But it is a habit that has developed from the game. Most everyone I know calls it a toon, mule, or alt more than they call it their character.

And those people should be punched (or worse) >_>. Degrading adventurers and character into something abysmal as a "toons" is insulting. This isn't nickelodeon.

[Bumbeen]

Laptop for forums... PC for game. But it is a habit that has developed from the game. Most everyone I know calls it a toon, mule, or alt more than they call it their character.

I thought alt meant mule.

[Zyeriis]

I thought alt meant mule.
No, not really. Mule = Extra Inventory character. Alt = Secondary playable character.

[Bumbeen]

No, not really. Mule = Extra Inventory character. Alt = Secondary playable character.

Yeah so not your main is what i meant

[RAIST]

guess it's just a generational or regional gap I guess...people I've gamed with have used that term for at least 15 years...

potato/potahto, coke/pepsi/soda.... different groups use different terms for common things....get over it and get back on topic, shall we?

[Catsby]

Every set of options that is presented to the player is in a box that shows a max of 3 regardless of how many options the player really has. In order to get more information the player always has to go one more level deeper. This shit has to go. You don't realize it but this probably doubles the time you spend fumbling with books, NPCs or whatever else.

[Raxiaz]

UI on Windows should show the text windows bigger to display more. I don't see what's limiting them from changing the UI and its appearance based on resolution for PC users. PS2 limitations? There's things the PC can do that the PS2 can't - simply because of the client and nothing more.

[rog]

potato/potahto, coke/pepsi/soda.... different groups use different terms for common things....get over it and get back on topic, shall we?
You realize coke and pepsi are two different brands, not different terms for the same thing, right?

[noodles355]

Just imagine if it took you one minute and eleven seconds to open the door to your house. You would be pretty mad.
Actually it takes me about 1 minute to get into my house and I'm fine with it.


ITT: complaining about wasting less than a minute to log in to an MMO where you will waste hours.

[Raez]

Actually it takes me about 1 minute to get into my house and I'm fine with it.


ITT: complaining about wasting less than a minute to log in to an MMO where you will waste hours.

First, no unless you are 60+ years old and cant use your hands it takes you 10 seconds to open your door. Go ahead, stand outside your house and count to 60.

Second, you clearly did not read my post since this is not what its about. Its not about play-online or any specific menu. Its about - every - single - aspect - of the game just teeming with nonsense confirmation boxes to confirm things you already confirmed twice. You click a "Play" button at least twice logging in. Why? Was it not clear I wanted to play the first time? - Again, just an EXAMPLE.

[rog]

First, no unless you are 60+ years old and cant use your hands it takes you 10 seconds to open your door. Go ahead, stand outside your house and count to 60.
Maybe he has 5 locks, with different keys, plus a 64 digit security code?

[RAIST]

You realize coke and pepsi are two different brands, not different terms for the same thing, right?

Ok, last pack of peanuts for the trolls... /toss

they are all ways to refer to a soft drink. I cross the northern border and people call them pepsi by default, to the south, it's coke, head out west and some of my cousins say "you want a soh-da?"(funny accent, have to be there for it).

[Panthera]

I don't particularly care for the tone of the OP, and why they haven't erased this is beyond me.

But he has a point. Am I sure that he does? Yes

Am I sure that I'm sure that he does? Yes

Am I really sure that I'm sure that he does? Yes

Am I really sure that I'm really sure that he does? Yes

Last chance now...Yes already!

[rog]

Ok, last pack of peanuts for the trolls... /toss

they are all ways to refer to a soft drink. I cross the northern border and people call them pepsi by default, to the south, it's coke, head out west and some of my cousins say "you want a soh-da?"(funny accent, have to be there for it).
Just like ipod and zune are just different terms for the same thing, amirite? They are both mp3 players, so it's ok to use them interchangably to refer to any kind of mp3 player, right? Pepsi and coke are names used to refer to specific brands of sodas. They are not terms at all.

[Mirage]

The thread title is pretty dumb. "I hate you square enix" doesn't exactly tell anyone what the thread is about, and is easy to mistake for one of the troll threads we see now and then.

The point the OP is trying to make is fair though. I too really dislike the extreme amount of confirmation boxes I have to navigate through. Most games streamline these processes a lot more.

Also, using specific brand names as general terms is fucking retarded.

[Raksha]

Also, using specific brand names as general terms is fucking retarded.

Like xerox and plexiglas, amirite?

[rog]

Like xerox and plexiglas, amirite?
I honestly did not now plexiglass was a brand name. As far as xerox goes, yes.

[Mirage]

Like xerox and plexiglas, amirite?

Yes, exactly like those.

[noodles355]

First, no unless you are 60+ years old and cant use your hands it takes you 10 seconds to open your door. Go ahead, stand outside your house and count to 60.Oh, sorry, I didn't realise "getting into your house" was the same as opening your door.

Opening your front door = you are completely ready to do whatever you do in your house? Because when you are logged into FFXI thats the stage where you are at. Opening your front door is equivilent to typing in your passoword in POL. Opening your front door, walking inside, putting away any outdoor clothes etc, walking to your living room/bed room/etc is much more comparable to the whole log in process to where you are completely logged into FFXI.

Just for you I will go outside and time myself from reaching into my pocket to get the key, to when I am stood in my room, ready to do whatever.
And it took 1 minute 1 second. Hmm.

[noodles355]

Maybe he has 5 locks, with different keys, plus a 64 digit security code?Keycard for the front door, swapping shoes, taking indoor shoes out of locker and putting outdoor shoes into locker, walking up a floor to my room then just my normal door key.

To be honest the OP is just too stressed and worrying his little head about rediculously trivial things. Stop being so impatient, take a deep breath, relax and just get on with it. Theres far more important things to worry about than wasting a few extra minutes when you are already wasting hours. In the grand scheme of things it really doesnt matter.

[rog]

Keycard for the front door, swapping shoes, taking indoor shoes out of locker and putting outdoor shoes into locker, walking up a floor to my room then just my normal door key.

To be honest the OP is just too stressed and worrying his little head about rediculously trivial things. Stop being so impatient, take a deep breath, relax and just get on with it. Theres far more important things to worry about than wasting a few extra minutes when you are already wasting hours. In the grand scheme of things it really doesnt matter.A few minutes every day adds up over a life time. Shit son, even just one minute lost per day every day for 80 years is a whole 20 days of your life gone!

[noodles355]

Who cares? By the time you're 80 you're gonna be spending weeks doing absolutely nothing. 20 days wont mean shit.

[Raez]

Still not reading what I write apparently. Maybe your reading comprehension isn't that good. I'm not going to repeat myself so you can just look back at what I wrote.

AND

Yes, opening your door and stepping through it is a good analogy. You are adding steps because you don't like the conclusion. You aren't ready to go the moment you log in, stop and think for a second. The door isn't locked with a lock that locks the lock in place to lock another lock that locks the first lock that locks another thing.

Heres an in game comparison. Taking the airship. Its long, I have to wait a while. Is it frustrating? Not at all. I can go do other things, theres no long list of menus I have to navigate. At the most, I have to move my character onto the airship, since you don't even have to get off, it does it for you. I'd like to thank whoever made it that way.

Its not the TIME involved. Its the mundane press "Yes" confirmation insanity. I wouldn't care if it took five minutes to log on if it was just one big loading screen where I didn't have to do anything.

[rog]

Except it is 20 days over a life time, not all at once. And that is still just one minute per day. 2 minutes per day is 40 days, etc, etc.

[Nebo]

Except it is 20 days over a life time, not all at once. And that is still just one minute per day. 2 minutes per day is 40 days, etc, etc.

I've never really agreed with arguments like these. Time is not a currency that you can budget and save up for later. It's not like one could find a way to bypass that 2 minutes, save them up and trade them in for 40 days later in life.

It is just what it is. 2 minutes per day, for which the actual opportunity cost is very, very low.

[noodles355]

Exactly, it's a pretty dumb argument because if you weren't wasting those 2 minutes a day doing whatever then what would you be doing instead? We all "waste" so much time anyway in almost every aspect of our daily life anyway.

[noodles355]

Still not reading what I write apparently. Maybe your reading comprehension isn't that good. Actually I am reading it, however I didn't feel the need to respond to the rest of it as I don't disagree with it. The only section of it I disagreed with is the front door analogy, and thus the only section I replied to was that.

And it's still a bad analogy. When I'm logged in and in my mog house I can start playing the game. I can check AH, delivery box, gardening, I can go to PJ to look for shouts, talk to my friends/ls mates, head out to the field to do whatever, etc etc. Whatever I do, as soon as my character is logged in I am playing the game and ready to do things in the game. When I open the front door of my house and walk through I am not ready in the same way. Opening the door is like entering your password. Taking off your shoes and jacket and putting them away and walking from the front hall to the room you do things in is like clicking through the POL menus. After you've done all that then you're ready to do whatever it is you want to do in your house.

[Raksha]

Exactly, it's a pretty dumb argument because if you weren't wasting those 2 minutes a day doing whatever then what would you be doing instead? We all "waste" so much time anyway in almost every aspect of our daily life anyway.

Guess it boils down to me preferring to waste those 2 minutes staring at the wall instead of banging my head into the keyboard.

[noodles355]

Guess it boils down to me preferring to waste those 2 minutes staring at the wall instead of banging my head into the keyboard.If you're banging your head at the keyboard about such a trivial thing, then maybe you need to find some ways to blow off steam and relax. Something that simple shouldn't annoy you as much as it appears to do so.

[Raez]

Actually I am reading it, however I didn't feel the need to respond to the rest of it as I don't disagree with it. The only section of it I disagreed with is the front door analogy, and thus the only section I replied to was that.

And it's still a bad analogy. When I'm logged in and in my mog house I can start playing the game. I can check AH, delivery box, gardening, I can go to PJ to look for shouts, talk to my friends/ls mates, head out to the field to do whatever, etc etc. Whatever I do, as soon as my character is logged in I am playing the game and ready to do things in the game. When I open the front door of my house and walk through I am not ready in the same way. Opening the door is like entering your password. Taking off your shoes and jacket and putting them away and walking from the front hall to the room you do things in is like clicking through the POL menus. After you've done all that then you're ready to do whatever it is you want to do in your house.

So if I decided not to take off my jacket and shoes, am I still in my house?

[Greatguardian]

So if I decided not to take off my jacket and shoes, am I still in my house?

I don't know. If you write a batch file to automatically log you into FFXI without pressing any buttons, are you still logged into the game?

[Akujima]

Are you guys calculating up the cumulative seconds/minutes you spend doing non-productive activities throughout the day...?

Wow, they got you brain-washed good down there eh?

[rog]

I've never really agreed with arguments like these. Time is not a currency that you can budget and save up for later. It's not like one could find a way to bypass that 2 minutes, save them up and trade them in for 40 days later in life.
No, you could bypass those 2 minutes, and trade them in immediately. And as noodles said, we all waste a lot of time every day. Effective time management is far more useful than you might think. 2 minutes may not be much, but what about 2 minutes opening the door, then 2 minutes starting your game, then 20 minutes standing around in that game doing nothing, etc etc. Suddenly you are spending years of your life doing absolutely nothing of value.

[Zyeriis]

No, you could bypass those 2 minutes, and trade them in immediately. And as noodles said, we all waste a lot of time every day. Effective time management is far more useful than you might think. 2 minutes may not be much, but what about 2 minutes opening the door, then 2 minutes starting your game, then 20 minutes standing around in that game doing nothing, etc etc. Suddenly you are spending years of your life doing absolutely nothing of value.

You forgot about the time spent coming onto the forums to talk about this.

[rog]

You forgot about the time spent coming onto the forums to talk about this.
Personally i find my time spent here to be at least mildly productive, so that time does not apply.

[Raez]

I don't know. If you write a batch file to automatically log you into FFXI without pressing any buttons, are you still logged into the game?

If I knew how to do that, I'd do it. A one button login would send shivers down my spine. Do I need to make a batch file (not sure what that is exactly, I assume its like a macro from DOS) for every menu in game, or do you think they could spend one month out of the nine years this game has been out to remove stupid menu redundancy?

[noodles355]

There's a difference between standing in your house and standing in your house ready to do stuff. The equivilent to being logged into FFXI fully is the latter.

I didn't disagree with anything else you wrote apart from this analogy. Just admit it was a poor one and move on.

[noodles355]

Suddenly you are spending years of your life doing absolutely nothing of value.I'm fine with that and to be honest I expect most people are too. I think very very few people actually use their time to such an extent they aren't wasting years of their life.