HQ king triggers

[Nynja]

I'm not sure if this was intended, but this doesnt really make sense. Last night I killed two Behemoths, stacked Treasure Hunter up to 10 and 11 (while doing the majority of the fight with only Sneak and Trick attack as "damage dealt with either the "Sneak Attack" or "Trick Attack" ability will have a greater likelihood of enhancing this trait", which were your words straight from the patch notes). I didnt get any KB pop items, but hey I did get 2 hides and a Thundercloud each time. I've killed Fafnir 3x while getting TH up to 8-10, no Nidhogg pop items. I killed Adamantoise 6x, without raising TH, and I've gotten two pop items...was partial luck as they were both back to back.

And its not just me, because there are a lot of other people who are questioning the drop rate.
"i been to fights where we have 3 THFs and RNG applying TH to lvl 16 and still no trigger lol"
"TH7, TH9, TH11 and 0/3 trigger for Nidhogg. "
"We had TH9-11 on every mob. Still 1 drop in 8 pops.... "


Is there any reason for the atrocious drop rate at all? 99 Kindred Seals arent exactly something someone can farm in a day, and spending 30 minutes on what should be a 5 minute fight attempting to stack TH isnt helping either with HQ pop items.

Whats the plan? Wait till everyone burns their Kindred Seals, and then announce the drop rate on HQ triggers is lower than intended?

[Catsby]

Your sample size sucks. Come back after you have a couple hundred of TH and no TH.

[Gwynplaine]

Well then here's more to add to your sampling!

My ls did about 10 Adamantoise and the HQ dropped at a decent rate, may have been 4 or 5 of the 10. Then we did about the same amount of Behemoths with 0 HQ triggers dropping. Have yet to get around to wyrm/faf/nid.

The whole thing is made even stranger because basically the entire weird process is for nothing but getting a Black Belt now.

[Nynja]

Your sample size sucks. Come back after you have a couple hundred of TH and no TH.

Brilliant idea...so you want a "couple hundred of TH and no TH"...lets say 500 each? I've already referenced 22 fights with TH, with a 3/22 drop rate (13%)

So if you want 500 more kills with 0 TH and another 478 with TH, please feel free to donate the remaining 96822 kindred seals necessary to satisfy your stupid "sample size".


oops, I need to add Gwynplaine's drop rates.

with TH (presumed): 7/42 (16.6%)

[Sureal]

feel free to actually do work instead of coming here complaing that your 22 pops didnt all drop what you wanted


welcome to ffxi, have we met before?

[Catsby]

So if you want 500 more kills with 0 TH and another 478 with TH, please feel free to donate the remaining 96822 kindred seals necessary to satisfy your stupid "sample size".

Nope. You're the one who came here to stir up shit because you didn't get what you wanted. I just suggested that you do more KSNM99s to validate your complaint that the droprate is terribad.

Seals aren't terribly hard to come by. Form an alliance with some friends in a 70+ zone, rampage for a couple hours, have 1 person lot every seal and you have yourself a stack.

[Arcon]

Nope. You're the one who came here to stir up shit because you didn't get what you wanted. I just suggested that you do more KSNM99s to validate your complaint that the droprate is terribad.

Seals aren't terribly hard to come by. Form an alliance with some friends in a 70+ zone, rampage for a couple hours, have 1 person lot every seal and you have yourself a stack.

No. And his aren't the only numbers, there's many more people complaining in many more threads (and they also have numbers). It adds up.

[Raksha]

Figure i'll add my statistic here like i did in the other 2 threads:

1/8 behemoth tongue, 1/8 KB pop
1/10 wyrm beard. 1/8 nidhogg pop, 0/8 ridill. nidhogg only dropped dalmatica abjuration.

[Sureal]

this sounds a whole hell of a lot like the, "DID THEY CHANGE DROP RATE ON RIDILL" after one drop day after maint.

[Nynja]

feel free to actually do work instead of coming here complaing that your 22 pops didnt all drop what you wanted


welcome to ffxi, have we met before?

Once again, for a modified event that requires 99 kindred seals to initiate, with current reported drop rate of 14%*, means for a chance at fighting a HQ king, presuming the law of patterns holds true, will take an average of 693 KS. With the knowledge that only 1 BS or KS can drop per 5 minutes (Do Crests factor in as well?), presuming a 50% distribution between BS and KS and solo farming, that will take about 6930 minutes, or 115.5 hours, or almost 5 days of non stop farming.

But you're right, welcome to FFXI where you have to work for your stuff. Kind of funny coming from someone who looks like they've worked for all the gear they dont have. This is you (http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Surealistic#equip), right?


*Previous drop rate updated:
7/42
I killed two more Behemoths, no KB pop (7/44)
Raksha: "1/8 KB pop, 1/8 nidhogg pop" (9/60) 15%
Karb: 1/3 N, 0/4KB, 0/3 A (10/70) 14%

[Karbuncle]

I'll add my numbers to the mix.

1/3 on Nidhogg Upgrade, TH~8/9 applied Each time
0/4 on Behemoth Upgrade, TH~9+ Each fight
0/3 on Adamantoise, TH9~+ Each fight.

[Sureal]

worked for all the gear i dont have?

sense, make any do you?

[Sureal]

btw, with all your math, you failed hard, you forgot to add the counterpoint, which would be, you stand in DA for 3 hours a day for the "chance" to fight, not knowing whether it will be fafnir or nidhogg (which by the way cant spawn until day 5 anyways and ive seen him go 2 weeks without popping)

so with that taken into consideration, i do not feel bad at all that this is a rare drop

OH NOES I HAVE TO DO WORK TO GET SOMETHING GOOD TO HAPPEN

be happy that you have a chance to fight either of them without competition, or just QQ more that SE isnt just handing out dalmy's and adaberk's

[Nynja]

So even if it takes "two weeks" to spawn (and the most I've seen is up to D11, and anything past D8 is a pretty rare nonoccurence) and takes the full 3 hour windows every day, that's still 42 hours of time, not 115.

[Sureal]

so, your taking the QQ route, kk, just making sure

[Raksha]

If the point of this change was to make shit drop less they could have done it without wasting our k.seals.

[Nynja]

so, your taking the QQ route, kk, just making sure

Yup, exactly...
And in regards to the "gear you dont have" comment, I linked your ffxiah profile, and your equipment history seemed to have zero pieces of any AF3

I still fail to understand how you think I'm some scrubby 2008 player who just started and is whining because I'm not getting 100% drop rates on HQ kings pops. I already HAVE my BB, for both my main and my Vere mule (yes, my ALTERNATE account has an empyrian weapon). I already have an E.Bd, I dont need Dalmatica, I got a Ridill from one of my 3 Faf's I did but I dont really care for it, havent used it...I dont care for D.Ring since it is a myth. But just because I dont have use for them, doesnt mean the remaining playerbase isnt vying for some of these outdated items for novelty sake, or the thrill of low manning the fight possibly.

I made this post because I was attempting to address if this is the drop rate SE wanted, because right now this drop rate is akin to 2005 Sea. Lately, they've had a good track record of actually communicating with the community, as well as letting people actually enjoy content instead of hoping to ball and chain players with 1% drop rates. But when theres a collective of people saying they've had subpar luck with HQ kings triggers despite bringing multiple thieves and attempting to raise TH effect to 10++++ (which takes a long time and relies on luck), something has to be said.

Instead of coming here going "sample size u suck QQ moar noob", keep your trap shut if you think things are ok as they are. Or...*places my hand on my forehead* maybe my presentation is wrong./thinks, Maybe I should be more giddy and (b^_^)b face like and be a big attention wh... ^______^ because /dance it always works. Or...I shudd tlk lik thsi n rreprot teh pstos who dotn agreo wiht me.

Looking at some of the other posts that are on these boards, I think "hey, is everything ok with the HQ drop rates, because numerous players have had subpar luck despite raising TH levels" is kinda constructive and useful compared to some things I've seen on these boards.

[Sureal]

youre absolutely right, i dont have any af3+2 pieces, reason being, i quit for almost 2 years, but that makes no difference to such an elite player as yourself right, you got all yours in what 2, 3 days?

and i will come back again and again letting you know that you are QQ'ing, hard, personally, i have everything i need from nid, or did you not see that on my ffxiah profile, oh whats that you say? you cant see ALL my gear on ffxiah, interesting, interesting indeed, meaning that you also took a small sample size of my gear and equated that to my overall gear quality, you sir are indeed a winnar at all things math, and since you want to break things down into numbers, let me do some more for you,

so, taking your number of 115 hours to get one nidhogg pop, that equates at 3 hours per day, to almost 39 days, and in that 39 days you also are guaranteed to fight 7 fafnirs, so to make things easier, lets say it only takes a month (unless that math doesnt work for you), so in one month you are guaranteed (in your math) to fight 7 fafnirs and one nidhogg, which in a good ls (and i think you know what i mean by "good") thats right about on par with how they system was before, EXCEPT FOR THE FACT THAT NOW EVERYONE ON THE SERVER HAS THE SAME CHANCE

i really dont understand why this is such a problem, the gear off nid is still good, especially with augments now, and honestly with einharjar, you do know you can get abj's off this right, just checking, because with this event, faf and kb are the only 2 worth fighting anymore, but since as you say ridill you have, and defending ring is a myth, what are you doing trying for these anyways


right, its for something to QQ about, man up, quit complaining, and be happy that SE is finally doing away with a system that was broken before it started

[Sureal]

and yes, i do believe, GIVEN A ACCEPTABLE SAMPLE, that drop rate threads are understandable, but as was said before, even with all the additions to your sample, we do not have a acceptable sample yet

reason being, you cannot add behemoth, fafnir, and adamantoise into one pool, they are each seperate and need their own sample size

and also, some people just have terribad luck, that has to be figured into this as well, i know someone that walked into dynamis xarcabard, killed (and i use that term very loosely, as they wiped and left) the first set of mobs and got a valor surcoat, as for me though, it took me prolly over 200 xarcabard runs before i saw my first one drop

but im sure youre going to be coming back here telling me how im wrong and that your sample size is completely right and doesnt need anymore numbers to back up your claim, and that they should make hq pop item 100%

[Karbuncle]

Why do you keep double posting?

Is it so hard to put it all i one post >__>? Or are you trying to spam your post count higher. There is an Edit button...

Also, Why are you whining about people whining on a forum for a game you quit 2 years ago? I can understand "keeping up with the game" to see if its improving/etc or wanting to come back. But bickering on a forum with someone regarding content you have not experienced or know nothing of outside of maybe a few topics/reading seems foolish.

(I'm assuming you haven't tried new kings because you quit 2 years ago, But if you have, Its a different story)

[Nynja]

that they should make hq pop item 100%

That is EXACTLY what I said...word for word.

Like I said, if you want to keep bickering about sample size, and at this point I'd say 10/70 is pretty decent considering the circumstances (6930 kindred seals), feel free to donate your kindred seals. And yes, they're allowed to all be lumped in as its expected they should all have the same drop rate.


Nice Headlong Belt btw...

[Sureal]

i came back because the game is fun now

and thx, i rather enjoy it

for the double post, sorry, it was early, anyways, no you cannot lump the mobs together, different mobs will have different drop rates

[Raksha]

i came back because the game is fun now

and thx, i rather enjoy it

for the double post, sorry, it was early, anyways, no you cannot lump the mobs together, different mobs will have different drop rates

It seems likely that since these were the only 3 mobs that were revamped that they were given equivalent drop rates. We'll just have to see when more results come in, and we can always keep the tallies seperate to do an analysis of the 3 independently.

[Nynja]

for the double post, sorry, it was early, anyways, no you cannot lump the mobs together, different mobs will have different drop rates

really, well, show me some sample sizes, proving me wrong, because you love them, sample sizes

[Sureal]

youre right, to hell with scientific method, just use your own method

and why dont you show me sample sizes proving ME wrong


and please, do not get me wrong, i "believe" they will end up all being teh same drop rate, but until we know FOR SURE what each one is, we cannot say that, you have to keep them separate until then

[Nynja]

*thinks* /stare no u (>'.')> (7'.')7 <('.'<)

[Sureal]

then what youre saying is that you dont want the answer, you want others to get you the answer, or you just want to QQ about something

[Nynja]

I'm saying, as are those who have contributed to my sample size, that a 14% drop rate where the NQ mob was inflicted with TH9++++ is failing to drop the HQ trigger seems out of place, considering the amount of KS required per NQ mob. Please dont infer my previous sentence as "pushing TH effect to 10+ should automatically make HQ trigger drop". If YOU are displeased or feel its just bad luck, how about YOU deliver some sample sizes proving otherwise.

[saca]

to add to the "sample size" :
792 KS > 8 NQ Behe > 0 HQ trigger ( whit TH of course)

@Sureal
So you coming back after 2 years assuming you like 100% abyssea drops then you jump on Nynja complaining about HIS KS wasted on a 10% trigger drop ?

[Sureal]

lol, no i could care less about his "wasted" ks, what i care about his him complaining about a drop rate that he does not have sufficient information about yet

[Nynja]

lol, no i could care less about his "wasted" ks, what i care about his him complaining about a drop rate that he does not have sufficient information about yet

Then use YOUR ks and help my sample size if its not sufficient, because you seem to think getting a sample size of 1000 is ohhhhh so easy. Put up or shut up.

Oh, updated drop rate is now 10/78, 12.8%. It just keeps going down...
Heres what people have posted on the wiki:
Behemoth (3/26) 11.5%
Adamantoise n/a (the item just isnt listed on the adamantoise page lol, no one cares about aspi)
Fafnir (1/32) 3.1%

That Fafnir one looks ugly, but I checked the update history, and none of them look like vandalism attempts, the editors who posted big jumps all have contributed elsewhere.

Fafnir: Duzell-Levi 0/5, MasterEx 0/11, Mitsukai-Hawke 0/5, Dewzedo 1/10, Zatias 0/1
Behemoth: Sixo 0/4, Duzell-Levi 1/3, Zirael.Ragnarok 1/3, Kutsurabi 1/13

Since none of those people have contributed to my previous sample size, I'll allow it! Which puts the drop rate at 14/136, 10.2%

[Sureal]

im not saying it will be easy, but if you want the correct answer (which you obviously do not) it is necessary


and fyi, im seeing a fairly large discrepensy with drop rates, showing aspid pop item to be worst, but that doesnt matter at all does it, i mean they are all the same right, oh wait.....

[Raksha]

im not saying it will be easy, but if you want the correct answer (which you obviously do not) it is necessary


and fyi, im seeing a fairly large discrepensy with drop rates, showing aspid pop item to be worst, but that doesnt matter at all does it, i mean they are all the same right, oh wait.....

Probably because aspid has the lowest sample size. You haven't forgotten about sample size have you?

[Nynja]

and fyi, im seeing a fairly large discrepensy with drop rates, showing aspid pop item to be worst, but that doesnt matter at all does it, i mean they are all the same right, oh wait.....
Sample Sizes brah

wait, what the heck are you talking about? Are you smoking something?
Me: 2/6, Gwynplaine: 5/10, Karb: 0/3

That's 7/19, which is the best reported drop rate of over 35%.

Fafnir:
Me: 0/3 BG: 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 1/3, Wiki 1/32
3/49 6%

Behemoth:
Me: 0/4, BG: 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 0/4, Saca 0/8, Wiki 3/26
4/53 7.5%

[Sureal]

brah, you so cool, you come in here with your small sample size, and discount anyone that says your wrong, refusing to put your seals where your mouth is, disregarding scientific method for your own convoluted ways


can i one day grow up to be as cool as you, i know its a stretch, and i would have to huff a lot of paint, but i think i can do it


ps, you do know that if you would have gotten that drop rate first, you never would have started this because "OMG 30% DROP RATE" remember way back when, when you said 25% would be great

[Nynja]

Seriously, is that your argument? "SAMPLE SIZE SAMPLE SIZE GET MORE SAMPLE SIZE". Theres one other person who clings to that argument as much as you are, and his name is Pchan. Well I guess two if you include catsby.

As I've said, if you want to say that our "sample size" is just bad luck, feel free to donate your seals and your friends seals and show that its just bad luck on our end. I've got sufficient confidence in this sample size to believe its not just bad luck, because its not just me reporting garbage drop rates. If you want a bigger sample size, feed me data.


I went 2/6 on Aspi pop item, and Gwynplaine went "4 or 5 on 10". But he also went 0/10 on KB...and described the Aspi drop rate as "decent". I've added the Red Pondweed to the adaman page, hopefully some people will post their drop rates as well.

[Sureal]

all im saying, is that you are trying to first, combine all the drops together, which you cannot do to get an accurate picture of the drop rate

secondly, do not say, "oh i got 0/10, drop rate sucks" you can complain that im not spending my seals to see, guess what i dont have many seals, but i do have an orb that will be used on wyrm, when my ls gets around to it, ill let you know how it goes


as much as you may want to complain about it, THE ONLY WAY TO GET A GOOD PICTURE OF THE DROP RATE IS TO GET A LARGER SAMPLE SIZE, and no 4 or 5 out of 10 does not work, need actual working good counts, get me 100 counts from FAFNIR ALONE, do not mix them together, and then ill start to take your argument seriously, until then, no you have no argument

[Catsby]

What exactly are you trying to measure? Drop rate or drop rate under TH effects?

[Bumbeen]

I see some of you(catsby, sureal) skipped the statistics day in math class.

[Byrth]

1.96*SQRT((3/22)*(19/22)/22) = 14.3%

So we can be 95% sure that the drop rate is between 0 and 28%.

Considering that pop rate used to be about 20-25% per day after window opened (even distribution, iirc). Now you have to do a little work, but you might be getting about that high a pop rate per NQ kill.

No Math Version: STOP WHINING. START WINING! (honey wine, that is!)

[HFX7686]

1/4 KB triggers dropped on TH7-9 off Behemoth for my group.

Not a good drop rate at all.

[Nynja]

What exactly are you trying to measure? Drop rate or drop rate under TH effects?

If someones foolish enough to fight these without attempting to stack TH, then they're flat out retarded...

[Raksha]

brah, you so cool, you come in here with your small sample size, and discount anyone that says your wrong, refusing to put your seals where your mouth is, disregarding scientific method for your own convoluted ways


You do realize he is keeping track of them separately also, right?



ps, you do know that if you would have gotten that drop rate first, you never would have started this because "OMG 30% DROP RATE" remember way back when, when you said 25% would be great The only drop rate anywhere close to that is the aspid one, which has the lowest sample size. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but every post you make leads me to believe that you lack a fundamental understanding of just about anything.

We are aggregating drop rates, it's a work in progress. We realize the sample sizes are too low, we are constantly updating them. Get off our nutsacks and let us present our data.

[Sureal]

hows about you get data BEFORE you present it, thats generally how things work, just saying

[Catsby]

hows about you get data BEFORE you present it, thats generally how things work, just saying

Pretty much. Test still isn't internally valid.

[Sureal]

true, presenting this as a work in progress has no problems persay but that is not how this was presented, it was presented at "this is the way it is, i have only done a small number but i can assume that my drop rate is accurate"

this thread was made to complain about a drop rate that was not yet known, and is still not known

[Catsby]

Whatever. I ain't even mad.

I only started posting in this thread because the OP was complaints without solid grounds for them. As long as he/she keeps getting more people's support that's great. My only concern is that he/she is trying to narrow in on supposed drop rates without knowing how much each increment in treasure hunter affects it and more importantly whether treasure hunter affects it at all.

[Nynja]

hows about you get data BEFORE you present it, thats generally how things work, just saying


Pretty much. Test still isn't internally valid.

You're both inept...clinging onto ONE argument over and over. SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES

However, since the galka edited his post after I replied, I missed this gem

refusing to put your seals where your mouth is

I already stated these fights cost 99KS, and I've already demonstrated the math of how long it would take 1 person solo to get sufficient KS to initiate another fight (1 seal per 5 min, presumed even distribution of 50% between kindred and beastmen, 990 minutes or 16.5 hours...and if you go "well just team up duh pfft stupid", theres still only so many mobs available). Believe it or not, I actually DO have a job, and actually do enjoy attempting to have a social life, so spending every awake moment (sleep 7.5 hours, farm 16.5 hours, dont eat dont shower dont piss dont work dont pay for internet nor ffxi...) farming colibris for kindred seals for the next year just to satisfy your primal urge for a sample size of 500...not gonna happen.

From a statistical standpoint, sure, chant SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES allllllllllllll you want. From a logical standpoint, theres a pattern I see, a ridiculously low drop rate considering what you need to start it up. Yeah, I would have been happy with 25% drop rate, HQ kings open on day 3, and contrary to your "they usually take 2 weeks to spawn", they usually spawn by day 6-7. But the difference between a 25% drop rate, and the 10% drop rate were seeing is an average of 396 seals per spawn and 990 seals per spawn. Your AVERAGE player probably wont amass more than 1500 KS in their playing career, but they probably also used a bunch in the past 7 years on KS30 and on KS99's when were first introduced and had big money. Seeing as how the game is basically Abyssea Fantasy XI now, and kindred seals dont drop there (or very very rarely)...the only way you're going to get seals now is by attempting to farm them, instead of previous method during FFXI of getting them while you xp. However, where people opt to xp/merit is not SE's problem in this case.


As to that gem of a quote I forgot to emphasize on. I had 11 KS99 worth of seals on my main, and 2 each on my 2 mules. Would that satisfy your urges for a sample size? thats only 15, FIFTEEN. That's a mockery of your desire for sample size. Since the addition of the triggered kings NM's, I'm down to 0 attempts on both my mules, and 5 on my main. So even if I "put my seals where my mouth is", you'd still whine about my sample size.

inb4 "just make 3 parties with your 2 mules"

[Catsby]

Christ dude, calm down. If anything we are trying to help. This isn't something you can easily do in a week or even a month unless you managed to find a ton of people to help. You just need to make sure everyone who does help knows what you want them to do. Are they testing with or without treasure hunter? if it is with treasure hunter then how much?

edit: validity of tests isn't simply your sample size.

[Sureal]

i never said they usually take 2 weeks to spawn, i said that was the longest that i had seen


and just because you are unable (and im not saying this in a bad way, because you are right, ks's do take a while to farm) does not justify lower sample size


and yes, i will chant sample size until i die, because THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES TO GET A CORRECT ANSWER

[Nynja]

and just because you are unable

http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/kotaku/2008/08/warning.jpg

looool amazing counterargument on my part. (I'm referring to spending 16.5 hours per day farming sufficient seals)


and as I said, if anyone is killing the NQ's without TH, theyre retarded...plain and simple. Its going to be hard to get much more of a sample size if majority of the player base, that I've seen so far, are disgusted with the drop rate. Despite your SAMPLE SIZE claims over and over, the average that people are seeing RIGHT NOW is in the 10% range...actually less than 10% for KB and Nid (which are ironically the ones people actually might have some focus on...better abjus and D.Ring). Not many people are going to want to waste their seals on this.

[Insaniac]

0/11 faf 1/9 behe 0/4 ada all with lots of TH

[Gwynplaine]

0/7 Fafnir HQ triggers despite some stellar TH!
At least doing the Wyrm KSNM we got most everyone a beard in the process.

[Sureal]

tell you what, i will leave this thread and never come back, IF, you start a new thread, asking for drop rates obtained by players, and nothing more, update the op to the thread with the numbers when someone adds to it, then, when you get enough numbers overall, and can show the difference between mobs, THEN come back complaining about it

hell, i will even like your posts if you do this

[Catsby]

and as I said, if anyone is killing the NQ's without TH, theyre retarded...plain and simple.

Does treasure hunter actually affect loot inside of a burning circle?


Its going to be hard to get much more of a sample size if majority of the player base, that I've seen so far, are disgusted with the drop rate.

People still do the BCNM for kraken clubs even knowing it has a supposed drop rate of 1%.

Just make sure the people helping you are testing the same way as you(if possible).

[Nynja]

Does treasure hunter actually affect loot inside of a burning circle?

You have no idea whats going on because you seem to think that the BCNM is what drops the HQ king item...unless I misunderstood, but I know I didnt because theres no reason at all for you to mention TH and BC in the same sentence in this context.

You do the KS99, you get the NQ pop item, which drops 100%. You run to where the NQ king spawns, and trade it to a ???, which spawns the NQ king. You think kill the NQ king (this is where all the TH comes into play) which has a chance at dropping a HQ trigger.

[Raksha]

Does treasure hunter actually affect loot inside of a burning circle?


He's talking about the drop rate of NQ land kings, not the KS99 drop rate.

Fighting behemoth/fafnir/whatever the turtle is doesn't take place inside a BC.


hows about you get data BEFORE you present it, thats generally how things work, just saying

So gather the data somewhere else, then come post it here? Why can't we just gather it here?

[wish12oz]

The consensus is that the pops for HQ kings off NQ kings is 5% .
And it's complete BS that the drop rate is this low, the drop rate should be much higher.

Friend of mine went 1/17 off fafnir one day.
Personally I'm 0/12 on faf and 0/8 on behemoth. And with all my kills, all damage comes from THFs, TH is always above 10.

[Catsby]

You do the KS99, you get the NQ pop item, which drops 100%. You run to where the NQ king spawns, and trade it to a ???, which spawns the NQ king. You think kill the NQ king (this is where all the TH comes into play) which has a chance at dropping a HQ trigger.

ok. that makes more sense. It's been years since I've done a KSNM and probably longer since I cared enough to fight fafnir and co outside of nyzul.

The remaining question I have is; how much does an increment of treasure hunter increase drop rate? It might be a large boost and it might not. If somebody is giving you their drop numbers off mixed results then Ooops! Simpson's paradox and the further claim that the drop rate sucks.

[Nynja]

Updated loot counts, separated by NM, all presumed with TH.

Adamantoise:
Me 2/6, Gwynplaine 5/10, Karb 0/3, Insaniac 0/4
7/23

Fafnir:
Me 0/3 BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 1/3, Wiki 1/32, Insaniac 0/11 Gwyn 0/7 Wish12fraand 1/17 Wish12 0/12
4/96

Behemoth:
Me 0/4, BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 0/4, Saca 0/8, Wiki 3/26, Insaniac 1/9 Wish12 0/8
5/70


People are going to go on BG, and read about how people have had horrible drop rates on the HQ. People are going to come on these forums (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7893-DEV-1009-Kings-update-drop-rates.), and read about how people have had horrible drop rates on the HQ. Theyre going to go on ffxiah forums (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21550/ks99kings/)and find the (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21868/new-behemoth-pop/) same results. They'll go on Zam..and wont find anything. Theyre going to read all this, and then go "do I really want to waste my KS99 knowing I have almost no chance at getting a kings pop?" I can tell you right now, I'm not wasting my last 500 seals.

[Bumbeen]

Nynja, with the drop rates like this. What would you say is a fair price for a themis orb?
If I don't get egg on my single orb I will have to buy.

[Sureal]

i just had a thought, you said "im not wasting my last 500 seals"

lol,what the hell else are you gonna do with them, oh thats right, ksnm99's

so basically what your saying is that you are mad that now, instead of fighting JUST the ksnm99 mob, you also get to fight a guaranteed fafnir, AND maybe a nidhogg

i seriously fail to see how this is a problem

[Raksha]

i just had a thought, you said "im not wasting my last 500 seals"

lol,what the hell else are you gonna do with them, oh thats right, ksnm99's

so basically what your saying is that you are mad that now, instead of fighting JUST the ksnm99 mob, you also get to fight a guaranteed fafnir, AND maybe a nidhogg

i seriously fail to see how this is a problem

He's gonna save them for if SE ups the drop rate on nid/kb pop item. As am I.

[Nynja]

He's gonna save them for if SE ups the drop rate on nid/kb pop item. As am I.
My answer is pretty much identical to this.

KS99 fight? WOWWWWWW, do you know what I've done with my drops so far? With the exception of the Behemoth Hide, Shining Cloth and items I cant sell to NPC, everything has gone to NPC, or put on AH cause I had space and its worth an extra 1-2k more on AH. You're not going to make money off KS99's now, not even the elusive Speed Belt is worth anything, except MAYBE to pld's and drks. But getting one of those is like getting a Kraken Club...raaare.

So if the drop rate doesnt get adjusted, I'll do like I was doing with them before: keep them stored on Shami. Its not like I stored up 1200 KS for 5 years going "I have faith that SE's going to change kings into pop NM's". KS30's stopped being worth my time cause market changed, I stopped doing em. KS99's arent worth my time because the ultimate goal has a non-existant drop rate, I wont do em. Its not even like the gear kings drop (with the exception of D.Ring, and thats rare as F) is groundsbreaking anymore. Theres NO reason for the HQ pop items to have such a garbage drop rate!

@Bumbeen
I'm not good at gauging prices ,but heres what I can tell you
1/3 Beard (Beard dropped on second)
1/8 Egg
1/5 Tongue

[MarkovChain]

Me and mdk went 1/1 on both beard and pop (wyrm > fafnir > nidhogg). Also ITT, BG idiots doing statistics with 20 sample size.

[Nynja]

Me and mdk went 1/1 on both beard and pop (wyrm > fafnir > nidhogg). Also ITT, BG idiots doing statistics with 20 sample size.

ITT someone going 1/1 on a drop citing it as anything but luck and calling people with a sample size of 189 "idiots"

[Bumbeen]

Calling people with a sample size of 20 idiots also doesn't make any sense either. We aren't trying to find out the exact %, 20 is plenty enough to give you an idea of the droprate. It isn't going to suddenly jump to 40%+ droprate when you get to 1000 kills.

Parrots. Slapping your keyboards without any idea what you're saying or why.

[Nynja]

Yes it is, duh...thats why you need a sample size of 1000, to weed out the obvious initial bad luck...

[Raksha]

We aren't trying to find out the exact %

Sure we are.

[MarkovChain]

20 is plenty enough to give you an idea of the droprate
.

Nope , especially with different Treasure Hunter procs and different NM mixed. It doesn't excude 25% for HQ king so far. 10% or 30% is a lot different and 20 sample size cannot distingish this.

[Bumbeen]

Nope , especially with different Treasure Hunter procs and different NM mixed. It doesn't excude 25% for HQ king so far. 10% or 30% is a lot different and 20 sample size cannot distingish this.

No 20 samples cannot distinguish between 10% or 30%, but that still gives you a good idea of what the drop rate is. As in it's less than 30%, at least. 3/22 in fact is more like +-14% so sub 28% drop rate is almost certain. I don't see how that isn't useful information.

[wish12oz]

No 20 samples cannot distinguish between 10% or 30%, but that still gives you a good idea of what the drop rate is. As in it's less than 30%, at least. 3/22 in fact is more like +-14% so sub 28% drop rate is almost certain. I don't see how that isn't useful information.

Especially considering we have much more then a sample size of 20? I saw 189.

[Nynja]

189 isnt enoug, it must be 1000!!!!!!

[Byrth]

Sorry, I basically read the first few posts and wrote that. Typically the value you multiply the assumed standard deviation by scales with sample size (so lower N or degrees of freedom = higher number). I used 1.96, which is the generic "Hey, you're above 30!" number. There are also some tests that people simply say are not valid until you have >30 sample size.

I've personally not had much issues with that equation I'm using giving very inaccurate results at low N (apart from where p is very close to 100% or 0%). It gave a huge window (almost 1/3 of the probability space), which is appropriate for a low N.

[Nynja]

http://americanresearchgroup.com/moe.html

I used that, presuming Population Size would be the amount of "accepted data" to tell whats accurate, I used 1000, and threw in our data of 189 samples, which gave a margin of error of 6.42%? Did I do that right?

Well, throwing around random population size numbers didnt change much, its always around the 5-7% margin of error range.

[Byrth]

For a two-state event (it happens or it doesn't), I think the binomial distribution error thing is best.
X = how often something happened
N = sample size

X/N +/- (1.96*SQRT( (1 - X/N) * X / N^2) )

or, when p is the ratio:
p +/- (1.96*SQRT( (1-p)*p/N) )

(I would just do it for you, but I can't find the 189 you're talking about)

[Nynja]

Updated loot counts, separated by NM, all presumed with TH.

Adamantoise:
Me 2/6, Gwynplaine 5/10, Karb 0/3, Insaniac 0/4
7/23

Fafnir:
Me 0/3 BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 1/3, Wiki 1/32, Insaniac 0/11 Gwyn 0/7 Wish12fraand 1/17 Wish12 0/12
4/96

Behemoth:
Me 0/4, BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 0/4, Saca 0/8, Wiki 3/26, Insaniac 1/9 Wish12 0/8
5/70

thats the 189

[Byrth]

I get 8.5% +/- 4%, so likely 10%. This assumes all three populations have the same probability.

[Karbuncle]

The real problem is that "10%" is with TH8~+ on most all of those kills.

Thats some pretty shitty Drop rate D: Would anyone complain if they upped it to ~20% >_>?

[Raksha]

I get 8.5% +/- 4%, so likely 10%. This assumes all three populations have the same probability.

So 990 k.seals on average to pop HQ king?

That d.ring is gonna take a while >_<.

[Nynja]

The real problem is that "10%" is with TH8~+ on most all of those kills.

Thats some pretty shitty Drop rate D: Would anyone complain if they upped it to ~20% >_>?

Even 20% is pretty low considering most of the gear is completely outdated, and the only way to make the gear competitive is via the synergy augments, which is its own set of randomness.

[Drhatchet]

To add to the sample size:
0/14 on KB pops. All had varying levels of TH.

[Raksha]

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/104507-General-Update-Changes-(May-09-11)?p=4623217&viewfull=1#post4623217

Atoreis reports 0/11 on fafnir.

[Nynja]

Updated further:
Adamantoise:
Me 2/6, Gwynplaine 5/10, Karb 0/3, Insaniac 0/4, Wiki(+me) 5/13
12/36 30.4%

Fafnir:
Me 0/3 BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 1/3, Wiki 3/49, Insaniac 0/11 Gwyn 0/7 Wish12fraand 1/17 Wish12 0/12, Atro 0/11
6/124 4.8%

Behemoth:
Me 0/4, BG 0/3, Rak 1/8, Karb 0/4, Saca 0/8, Wiki 3/49, Insaniac 1/9, Wish12 0/8, Drhatch 0/14
5/100 5%


Edit: Updated numbers from Wiki.

Seriously? >.>

[Raksha]

It's possible we are getting biased reports because the ppl who went 1/1 or 1/4 etc aren't complaining about their droprate.

Need more data really.

[Damane]

It's possible we are getting biased reports because the ppl who went 1/1 or 1/4 etc aren't complaining about their droprate.

Need more data really.

seriously? the Data from Nynja yells at me to keep my fingers of the KSNM99 fights until the droprate is uped drasticly ¬.¬

[Raksha]

seriously? the Data from Nynja yells at me to keep my fingers of the KSNM99 fights until the droprate is uped drasticly ¬.¬

Yeah me too, even if it ends up being 15 or 20% it's still way too low compared to what you're spending.

EDIT: Mojo reports 1/21 on KB
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/104957-Adamantoise-Drop-Rate-Question?p=4623984&viewfull=1#post4623984

[Octaviane]

My comment on all of this is that you got what you asked for in the early days of this Forum. SE does not ever give something with one hand without taking something else away with the other. It was clearly stated that drop rate for BB items from HQ kings would be reduced from 100%. It was never stated what the drop rate would be adjusted to. We still don't and probably never will know what it is, the best we can hope for is an average.

Nynja: I would like to know how you are obtaining these various triggers. Are you buying Themis Orbs, since from what I am reading you personally don't have KS's to burn, or are you buying the triggers from people who ARE doing the KS99's just for that purpose. Also, please tell me from your personal experience what the drop rate from KS99's are for BB items.

Wyrm Beard in KS99's typically have the highest drop rate, around 30%, the other 2 items are around 24% or less, still, the "luck" factor always plays, no matter which route you take or how high you get TH. I don't know why you're upset either since you have your BB, so what else is it you want from these.........................? Just asking.

[Nynja]

I never said I'm out of seals?


I had 11 KS99 worth of seals on my main, and 2 each on my 2 mules.
later on...

I can tell you right now, I'm not wasting my last 500 seals.

The extra fights I did was with friends of mine who donated Orbs trying for HQ king / Bartered for Orbs.



Wyrm Beard in KS99's typically have the highest drop rate, around 30%, the other 2 items are around 24% or less, still, the "luck" factor always plays, no matter which route you take or how high you get TH. I don't know why you're upset either since you have your BB, so what else is it you want from these.........................? Just asking.

Its upsetting because the drop rate for HQ's are so disgustingly low, considering the drops are mostly all outdated and useless making the fights just e-peen lowman or novelty factor.

[Sureal]

lol, so what your saying is, youre complaining about a droprate of an item to pop a mob you dont even care about


mind
blown

[saca]

D ring ? obviously.

[Sureal]

he already said he doesnt care about that cause "its a myth"

so when you take away all the bs and QQing, what you are left with is KB for d ring, and fafnir for ridill, because EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE GOTTEN FROM EINHERJAR (sp), since d ring is a "myth", that leaves fafnir for a ridill, so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

personally i would just take the fact that you get to fight ksnm99 and the low quality counterpart GUARANTEED and maybe a hq king as SE moving in the right direction of giving EVERYONE on the server the same chance of fighting these mobs instead of just the select few who have chosen to camp for hours upon hours and days upon days for maybe fighting one of them


yup, sure sounds like SE screwed the pooch on this one

[saca]

so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

Just think of Thief knife, just need to QQ a bit more and we'll get what we want.

[Sureal]

such an awesome way to look at life, cry enough and get what you want

[Raksha]

such an awesome way to look at life, cry enough and get what you want

What's a better way to get what we want? Provide a reasonable argument that the current drop rate is too low? We've done that. It doesnt require any skill these days to get these hq king triggers, it just requires tedium. None of these fights are difficult.

If they added a fight that was difficult that had a reasonable drop rate of d.ring then I wouldn't be complaining (not that i'm really complaining). No one wants d.ring on a silver platter, we'd just prefer to not have to swim through an ocean of shit to get it either.

[Sureal]

cause it was so much better the old way?

thats what i dont understand about this, yes drop rate sucks, so what, you are still getting a chance you didnt have before, and for those that never camped, this is a godsend

but instead of looking at the brightside, this thread is full of whining and complaining about a drop rate for something that they then turn around and say they dont want, i dont get it, be happy its better than before, it may not be what you want, but until YOU make a game, you have no control persay, no matter what you may want to think, this is still SE's game, so until i see a news headline that says "NYNJA BUYS SE" i will be happy with the changes they have made

[wish12oz]

so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter


The average number of seals for a d ring right now is 40,000. That is beyond ridiculous and cannot be justified in any way shape or form, silver platter is not required, but being able to actually work towards obtaining a d ring would be nice.


cause it was so much better the old way?

I hate to admit it, but yes, it was better the old way.

[Raksha]

cause it was so much better the old way?



You mean back when it luck based and not skill based? Oh wait....


I hate to admit it, but yes, it was better the old way.

this is the correct answer.

[Sureal]

except there is one HUGE difference, now everyone has a chance, instead of the select few who decide to camp forever hoping to get a claim

yeah, your right, old way so much better for the population as a whole


and lets not forget, if you are/were on a server that was heavily botted, you now actually have a chance, on bahamut the first NA defending ring came as a server transfer, so yes, i will take 40,000 seal farming over sitting watching someone else fight KB again and again and again

[Nynja]

so when you take away all the bs and QQing, what you are left with is KB for d ring, and fafnir for ridill, because EVERYTHING ELSE CAN BE GOTTEN FROM EINHERJAR (sp), since d ring is a "myth", that leaves fafnir for a ridill, so this entire thread is pointless crying about SE not handing people what they want on a silver platter

I'm so glad you think my desires are that of the other 500,000 who play this game. Because I think D.Ring is a myth, that means everyone thinks its a myth. Two people in my close knit group of 6 actually want a D.Ring, for starters.

Really, it doesnt matter what I say at this point, its clear as day now (yes, that means that you can take your sample sizes, shine em up, turn em sideways, and shove em straight up your roody-poo....) that the drop rates (for KB and Nid atleast) are around 5%. FIVE percent. 1980 Kindred Seals to fight either one of those two. Want to relate it to "days"? KB and Nid are spawning on average of Day 20.



i will take 40,000 seal farming over sitting watching someone else fight KB again and again and again

Please do this, and make a blog and share with us how that seal farming + KB hunting is going, as well as how your real life is handling it. I've love to read this.


Well, I dont think any of this matters at this point, everything that needs to be said has been said.

[Byrth]

40000 seals at 1 seal every 5 minutes. You can't tell if it's going to be a KS or BS (50/50), so it's actually 1 seal every 10 minutes in an optimal case. Realistically, you'd probably get about 1 seal every 14 minutes even killing the weakest possible monsters that drop KS at the maximum possible rate. If you team up, you're still limited by one seal every 5 minutes.

40,000 KS ~= 400 RL (playtime) days of farming

You're right. This is much better than before, where you wouldn't get the D-ring because you couldn't claim the monster. Now you get to waste over a year worth of RL time farming seals to also not have a D-ring. Improvements abound!

PS. If you can't claim, don't camp on good intentions. That's stupid. My friends and I don't bot, but we also didn't camp because we weren't retarded.

[saca]

lol why shoud he want a D ring after all, playing full pink armor is already good.
This forum was made exactly for what we'r talking about.
you just trolling too hard.

[Nynja]

Now you get to waste over a year worth of RL time farming seals to also not have a D-ring. Improvements abound!

inb4: well you'd only average 1 D.Ring per year, and atleast this time you can guarantee claim on KB
pre-reply: except camping KB took at most 3 hours per day, with only having to pay attention for at most 10 minutes, instead of farming for 17 hours a day every day.

[saca]

lack of valid arguments ? childish sentence ? nonsense despit what everyone say ?
yes i think everyone see what kind of guy you are and what you are trying to do.

[Hoshi]

In biology we almost always go with N < 10 as long as the p value is less than .05. If the data is difficult to obtain (mutant frequency of 1:8 or less) and the system yields a low number of offspring (in mice we average 8 embryos a litter), your p value indicates that your data has less than a 5% probability of occurring by chance, and you have multiple types of experiments that validate your overall hypothesis then your N value is acceptable. Arguing that the sample size is invalid because N is limited by the large time required to generate it doesn't make much sense to me. Sure a larger sample size is always better but you should be able to look at trends before you've finished sampling and form a hypothesis about the outcome.

[Rocl]

In biology we almost always go with N < 10 as long as the p value is less than .05. If the data is difficult to obtain (mutant frequency of 1:8 or less) and the system yields a low number of offspring (in mice we average 8 embryos a litter), your p value indicates that your data has less than a 5% probability of occurring by chance, and you have multiple types of experiments that validate your overall hypothesis then your N value is acceptable. Arguing that the sample size is invalid because N is limited by the large time required to generate it doesn't make much sense to me. Sure a larger sample size is always better but you should be able to look at trends before you've finished sampling and form a hypothesis about the outcome.

I have no idea what you just said but I agree.

[SubDragon]

aww i love it, your tears make me stronger, and the fact that i dont even have to reply, means you understand what im saying, agree with it, but you just have to cry about something

I have to say you really are a troll straight and to the point and not a scientist at all perhaps Psuedo-Science is your cup of tea like most people.

The drop rate is bad but to play devils advocate its not like we didn't see that coming.

I have similar results after 26,000 KS worth of pops for my LS we got 2 Black Belts completed and 1/3. Also we found that when we DIDN'T put TH on the NM's we got pops for the Kings almost 100% I think 1 fight we didn't get a HQ pop without TH when someone in my LS said hey lets try this without TH it was his pop so we went for it and HQ Pop then I went and HQ pop, it sounds weird... but it is what it is. Lots of abjurations and of course 0 Ridill's (That at least remains the same <sarcasm>) 26 NQ pops 16 HQ pops 7 total BB Items and 20 or so abjurations of which only 1 was wanted.

Now before the trolls start to post some snide comments do you want me to lay this out in a matrix and prepare a white paper with my results....

[wish12oz]

Back when kings were random spawns, even against the best bots, if you got 18 random people people together and spammed for claim during windows, you would get at least 1 every week.

Doing this was better odds of getting KB then having those same 18 people farm KS's for 3 hours a day then doing all the NQ's to try and get a KB pop.

now go away Sureal, and just know that you're wrong.

[Sureal]

see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

i personally dont care about the drop rate, dont care about the defending ring, dont care about any of it

what i do care about is people bitching and crying about things they havent put in the work to get the real results for, if you dont like that i actually appreciate SE doing SOMETHING after 8 years of the same old crap, well thats your problem, but this still boils down to QQ'ing about not having what you want

[Raksha]

see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

i personally dont care about the drop rate, dont care about the defending ring, dont care about any of it

what i do care about is people bitching and crying about things they havent put in the work to get the real results for, if you dont like that i actually appreciate SE doing SOMETHING after 8 years of the same old crap, well thats your problem, but this still boils down to QQ'ing about not having what you want

You realize people were QQing about not getting what they want before right? Or do you think adding drops to einherjar just came out of the blue? You think this kings change just came out of the blue also?

Anyone who reads BG knows nynja is an asshole, but he's right this time. Drop rate is too low.



Now before the trolls start to post some snide comments do you want me to lay this out in a matrix and prepare a white paper with my results....

I would, actually. At least present it in a more readable fashion so that it's easier to add to our running tally.



see what happens when you do actual work, you get results

You realize the only drops he got were ones you could already get in einherjar or ks99 anyway right?

[Sureal]

look, please do not get me wrong, im only going troll mode because im being pushed to it, and honestly i dont care if nynja is an asshole, a saint, or a fucking alien. what i do care about is integrity and due diligence to get the answers you want, and this thread IS starting to go there, and personally id love to see the chart, as i too would like to see the drop rates of everything and whatnot

the problem is, its all this QQing about drop rates, basically over one item, ONE FREAKING ITEM, that honestly while it is a nice ring, the world is not going to end if you dont get it

nynja said earlier that you may see one per year, yeah ONE D RING PER YEAR on a server, not a ls, not a group, but the entire freaking server, and there is all this QQing about ohh it takes too long, really, too long, i dont even....

whether you like the change or not, whether the drop rate is acceptable to you or not, you have to appreciate the changes SE has made to make EVERYTHING more accessable to EVERYONE, im sorry but thats just the way it is, SE is finally listening and has made changes, but since this thread started about 2 days after the update, and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away, more effort should have been put in before this thread was started, basically it started cause nynja didnt get everything he wanted on his first round of ksnm99's, boo freaking hoo

[Raksha]

There were two other threads about this that never took off. This one did. Mostly because of you and nynja going back and forth. Either way it isnt my problem, the horrid drop rate is.



whether you like the change or not, whether the drop rate is acceptable to you or not, you have to appreciate the changes SE has made to make EVERYTHING more accessable to EVERYONE


You mean people who want to farm for 400 days straight? The only reason to participate in this new system is because of d.ring and ridill (maybe a few abjurations). Everything else could've been gotten from einherjar (abjurations) or KS99 (BB items)

[wish12oz]

nynja said earlier that you may see one per year, yeah ONE D RING PER YEAR on a server, not a ls, not a group, but the entire freaking server, and there is all this QQing about ohh it takes too long, really, too long, i dont even....


Just to correct this, d ring average is 5%, 1 in 20, KB spawned in just under 7 days on average, so 19 weeks between d rings, so about 2.75 d rings per year was the average, not 1. With the new system it's gonna be 1 every 3 years if it's not fixed, maybe you can see the problem here now?

[Bumbeen]

and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away

funny that

[Nynja]

and only now are we getting the real information, which while it does go inline with what was seen right away

Thats because you and Catsby were too busy going "WAAAAAH SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES"

Which, upon acquisition of greater sample sizes, demonstrated that my initial claim of 15% was actually HIGHER than was proven to be the actual drop rate. Your desires for SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES SAMPLE SIZES only helped my case about the drop rates being FUBAR instead of proving that the initial string was just bad luck and it would balance out to something reasonable.

[Sureal]

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

[Bumbeen]

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

really :/ ....

[Hoshi]

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

And yet he was making the same point when he had the smaller sample size... funny how the overall trend didn't change.

[Arcon]

The sample size was good before this thread was started. It wasn't just his personal opinion, people all over the place had posted their personal results, which, added up, showed that the drop rate was very low, which was the motivation behind this thread in particular.

The fact is, the drop rate is ridiculously low.


thats what i dont understand about this, yes drop rate sucks, so what, you are still getting a chance you didnt have before, and for those that never camped, this is a godsend

And this is where your view on the subject differs from many others. Many people believe that people who really want it will camp it. Especially lately this has been easier than ever before. Now the people who wanted to put all their efforts into it got screwed out of their chance, while everyone else now has a comparably bigger chance (because it was 0 before - by choice).

[Nynja]

so what youre saying is, if i get this right, that a larger sample size got you a better answer


hmmm, imagine that

Youre just flatout trolling now, seriously. You and Catsby were crying about my inadequate sample size saying it doesnt prove anythign and could have been bad luck, and you were throwing every kind of crybaby excuse you could think of trying to dismiss my argument. People spoke up, helped the sample size you were both oh so desperate for, and now instead of going "ok, youre right, the drop rate is worse than projected"...youre still holding on to your same excuses and saying stupid garbage like "haha see I told u u needed a bigger sample size". My initial claims were strong enough, and youre petty desires did absolutely nothing but make you look like a gigantic tool.

[Sureal]

are you seriously that thick headed, i have already said, yes the drop rate is bad

yes i was asking for a larger sample size AND YOU HAVE SINCE GOTTEN A LARGER SIZE that backs up your initial claim, which is all i was asking for in the first place, hence me saying what i said


i just cant wrap my head around how someone can be as dense as you, but then i look at everyone else in this thread and think its the norm and not the exception

but i suppose your just going to turn around and say SAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZESSAMPLESIZES

because thats your generic reply to me, and i enjoy the fact that i have gotten so far under your skin so as to make you stalk me and such


my job here is done

/trollout

[Neisan_Quetz]

Bad drop rate but it's all good because everyone can do it together and suffer from low drops, right?

[Arlan]

After Reading a few pages here to get a better idea what was going on, I have to say,
I AGREE with BOTH Sureal and Nynja 100% since even tho both players have different view, both of these players have
very good points!

Here is what I have to say to the followings:


presenting this as a work in progress has no problems persay but that is not how this was presented, it was presented at
"this is the way it is, i have only done a small number but i can assume that my drop rate is accurate"
his thread was made to complain about a drop rate that was not yet known, and is still not known

I believe Sureal is Right!
Even tho this thread is made to complain about drop rate, it is ALSO a thread that is going through a "work in progress" to figure out what the exact % of drop rate is for certain items that majority want from these NMs.
I can see how Sureal feels about this "misleading presentation" however, I can see how Nynja can be frustraited with the drop rates, considering stacking 99 KS is not easy to come by. Nynja has worked really hard trying to figure out the % as well as trying to obtain his drop.

HERE is where I Agree with BOTH of these Players.

Sureal is happy for the changes SE made for making the game MORE accessible for anyone to be able to try these HNMs for the items they drop.

Nynja is not happy about the current drop rate based on his experience and "Current" calculations he made. He still has not done enough to get an EXACT ACCURATE % of the drop rates BUT, like I said before, based on his experience and calculations on his fights, we can see where he is coming from, and we can see it being a "Work in Progress" as the thread seems to develop.

I Agree with Sureal that We should appreciate the changes SE made to make these contents more accessable for players who didn't have the time to camp these HNMs to get the items they want. I agree that this new direction SE made is very good for players to all have that chance in fighting the NM. Very good move. I agree with Sureal that a lot of people are Crying about drop rate % when they do not have the an accurate drop rate % yet since this is all still new.

But

I Also Agree with Nynja that if that is how bad the drop rate is based on any individual's experience, SE should think about raising the Drop rate % of those items higher, considering how long it takes to stack 99KS in order to get a chance at fighting 1 HNM for the current drop rate.

Sureal is right where you need to PUT WORK to obtain your items, and his right that bad luck does happen and the drop rate is not accurate that the OP presented because the OP hasn't done enough to get the exact %, but the OP is still working hard on finding out the accurate % while still trying to get his drop which I think is fine.

I personally think both Sureal and Nynja are reasonable players based on the posts they made, and I can see both of these player's good side and bad.

I do not know if Sureal is happy with the current "Unknown drop rate", even tho it is still new at the moment,
But I can say, I am Not happy with the current unknown drop rate, even if it is still New.

I hope SE would raise the drop rate for these items and still be able to keep the content accessible for any gamers to be able to participate and enjoy on their own schedule. Progression is important.

Many Respects to Sureal and Nynja.
Hope both of you guys get a long in the future and work hard in getting what you want.
Remember, we are a Community. =)

[Raksha]

He still has not done enough to get an EXACT ACCURATE % of the drop rates

In order to get the EXACT ACCURATE % you would need an infinite sample size.


but according to this:

I get 8.5% +/- 4%, so likely 10%. This assumes all three populations have the same probability.

We can be 95% confident that the true drop rate is 8.5% +/- 4%. So 4.5%-12.5% mostly with TH+.

[Arlan]

In order to get the EXACT ACCURATE % you would need an infinite sample size.


but according to this:


We can be 95% confident that the true drop rate is 8.5% +/- 4%. So 4.5%-12.5% mostly with TH+.

It is a possibility, But I still think we need a bit more sample size to get thje accurate % but I do agree based on that experience, the drop rate seems too low and needs to be raised considering the amount of KS you need to get just to get the chance to fight 1 HNM again.

Sureal makes a good point saying "well we all have access to do these HNMs now compared to before when it was World spawn" but
Nynja also makes a good point saying "The drop rate sucks, specially for the amount of KS99 you need to do 1 fight, they need to increase it"

So ya, I agree based on how most people experienced the current drop rate for these items, SE should increase the drop rates for sure. But still keep the fights accessible as they are right now.

Even if we don't have the exact % yet, we are getting CLOSER to it as you said Raksha.
But to me, "At this Point", it is not about the exact accurate % on drop rate, it is about "How many times does an individual need to do this in order to get 1 item they want?"

Doing something 100+ times for 1 item is extreme in my opinion. Not something I would call "Fun" when progression is not "Seen". For every fail Drop rate, You feel you "Failed" even tho you got the 99KS and killed the NM successfully, you don't feel the "sense of accomplishment" because no reward you worked hard towards for was obtained.

The way I see it: We play to have fun. The Process should be fun. When something becomes too much of a chore, the fun dies and complaints are born.

[Nynja]

But I still think we need a bit more sample size to get thje accurate %

The drop rate is currently marked at 8.5%, and with the present sample size, statistically speaking, there is a possible variance of +/- 4%...it's pretty accurate as is, expected to be anywhere between 4.5% and 12.5%. No matter what the outcome, its low, ridiculously low.

[Arlan]

The drop rate is currently marked at 8.5%, and with the present sample size, statistically speaking, there is a possible variance of +/- 4%...it's pretty accurate as is, expected to be anywhere between 4.5% and 12.5%. No matter what the outcome, its low, ridiculously low.

I agree it is Low.
And I understand based on "Current calculations" it is marked as you said.
But the exact % isn't known yet but that doesn't mean it is not low drop rate. I agree it should be increased.

[Nynja]

What does locating the "exact" drop rate matter at this point though?

[Raksha]

I agree it is Low.
And I understand based on "Current calculations" it is marked as you said.
But the exact % isn't known yet but that doesn't mean it is not low drop rate. I agree it should be increased.

How do you propose we find the 'exact %'?

Adding more samples will only refine the number and decrease our margin of error. To get our margin of error down to 0 you would have to sample EVERY member of the population, which in this case means we'd have to have an infinite number of NQ pops to test.

Lets say we take more and more samples and get it down to 8.5 +/- 2%. Would you be happy then?

I understand what you're getting at. You want to know an exact drop rate. I do also, but it's actually impossible (without looking at the code) to do it.

[MarkovChain]

In order to get the EXACT ACCURATE % you would need an infinite sample size.


but according to this:


We can be 95% confident that the true drop rate is 8.5% +/- 4%. So 4.5%-12.5% mostly with TH+.

No because the "droprate" is mixing the 3 different HnMs. According to the old KS99 datas on the wiki, the 3 BCs didn't have the same droprate on BB items (same "sample size" as him). Therefore it means nothing unless you examine each NM individually. Plus you have the randomness of Treasure hunter that may or may not affect the 3 BC equally, may or may not have proced on all BCs, etc. Nevermind the fact that he opened the threrad with 22 sample size then added the droprate of others (completely ignoring how they were popped). The reminds me of the idiots on BG that determined that elemental gorget were "+10 acc on all hit" by mixing their 50 sample size and various others digged on the internetz, or how other idiots determined that crit hit rate was exponential based on a sample size of roughly 100, or the same idiots making out salvage drop rate on usukane body to be 1/100 based on their own experience of 100 runs. Haha. Either you want something accurate and you wait for decent sample size, or you don't care and stick to "the drop rate is bad".

[Arlan]

How do you propose we find the 'exact %'?

Adding more samples will only refine the number and decrease our margin of error. To get our margin of error down to 0 you would have to sample EVERY member of the population, which in this case means we'd have to have an infinite number of NQ pops to test.

Lets say we take more and more samples and get it down to 8.5 +/- 2%. Would you be happy then?

I understand what you're getting at. You want to know an exact drop rate. I do also, but it's actually impossible (without looking at the code) to do it.

Actually your wrong, I dont want to know exact drop rate %.
Based on the majority who have experience this shitty drop rate, including myself, I agree that this needs to be increased because its really just waay to low.

Also idc how people try to calculate it, I'm not a computer geek or math geek either, I don't like figuring out "%" but I am saying it does need more testings for the exact %, however, I do not disagree with you guys saying the drop rate could be about 8% or so, cause thats sure how it feels like imo. But that doesnt mean it is accurate. I dont care if it is accurate or not, all I know is the drop rate is too low for what it is and it needs to be increased.

lol

[Raksha]

No because the "droprate" is mixing the 3 different HnMs. According to the old KS99 datas on the wiki, the 3 BCs didn't have the same droprate on BB items (same "sample size" as him). Therefore it means nothing unless you examine each NM individually. Plus you have the randomness of Treasure hunter that may or may not affect the 3 BC equally, may or may not have proced on all BCs,

I think i'm beginning to understand how you garnered the reputation that you have.

The BCs have a (so far) 100% chance to drop the NQ king pop.

What we are arguing about is the HQ king pop. It's possible faf/behe/aspid all have different drop rates on the HQ triggers (aspid is showing ~30% with a low sample size), but even if that were the case it would only skew our drop rate HIGHER than the actual.

Also, you can't expect players to waste their kindred seals popping these guys without TH in order to make our job collecting data easier. No one in their right mind would do so.


Anyway, this number needs to be added to the running total.


Yeah me too, even if it ends up being 15 or 20% it's still way too low compared to what you're spending.

EDIT: Mojo reports 1/21 on KB
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/104957-Adamantoise-Drop-Rate-Question?p=4623984&viewfull=1#post4623984


And if this guy could post some clarifications this would help also.


I have to say you really are a troll straight and to the point and not a scientist at all perhaps Psuedo-Science is your cup of tea like most people.

The drop rate is bad but to play devils advocate its not like we didn't see that coming.

I have similar results after 26,000 KS worth of pops for my LS we got 2 Black Belts completed and 1/3. Also we found that when we DIDN'T put TH on the NM's we got pops for the Kings almost 100% I think 1 fight we didn't get a HQ pop without TH when someone in my LS said hey lets try this without TH it was his pop so we went for it and HQ Pop then I went and HQ pop, it sounds weird... but it is what it is. Lots of abjurations and of course 0 Ridill's (That at least remains the same <sarcasm>) 26 NQ pops 16 HQ pops 7 total BB Items and 20 or so abjurations of which only 1 was wanted.

Now before the trolls start to post some snide comments do you want me to lay this out in a matrix and prepare a white paper with my results....

[Koeta]

4 Behemoth - 0 King Behemoth
3 Adamantoise - 0 Aspid.
4 Faffy - 1 Nid
all had TH9 or higher.

I wont be wasting anymore of my seals on this crap till they up the drop rate on HQ pops.

[Nynja]

Btw, if anyone else wants to keep track of the drop rates, go ahead. I've satisfied my initial desires of voicing displeasure at the drop rate and justifying my claims, as well as the initial requests for a greater sample size on the basis of the initial claims being bad luck.

[Nynja]

I guess that the admins are more concerned about Pankration and melee RDM's...oh well.

[Arlan]

I guess that the admins are more concerned about Pankration and melee RDM's...oh well.

Ya, They need to focus on King HNM drop rates before moving on in my opinion...

[Raksha]

Yeah so their solution to this problem is to allow you to trade 3 crests for 1 k.seal.

w2g SE.

[Hoshi]

Yeah so their solution to this problem is to allow you to trade 3 crests for 1 k.seal.

w2g SE.

I think I missed something. You can exchange kc for ks now?

[Raksha]

I think I missed something. You can exchange kc for ks now?


http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/9515-dev1018-Assorted-Refinements?p=118571#post118571

[Ravenmore]

If i'm reading that right you should be able to trade beastman seals too, which are trash now anyway seeing how any job could make a muti-hit weapon in the same amount of time it would to take to even see a drop. You could still make a bit of gil off BS40 but why go though that crap when you get just as much doing other things.

[Raksha]

If i'm reading that right you should be able to trade beastman seals too, which are trash now anyway seeing how any job could make a muti-hit weapon in the same amount of time it would to take to even see a drop. You could still make a bit of gil off BS40 but why go though that crap when you get just as much doing other things.

Yeah except its almost impossible to actually get beastman seals these days.

Either way it's lame because instead of taking 40,000 kindred seals to get your d.ring it takes 120,000 kindred crests.

[Ravenmore]

How is it impossable to get seals haven't already gone over why EXP9ing was crap for getting seals in the first place. Now if you go and farm seals getting BS is not a waste of time now. You whiny people wont be happy till SE sends a D.ring thats far from the best anymore.

[Raksha]

How is it impossable to get seals haven't already gone over why EXP9ing was crap for getting seals in the first place. Now if you go and farm seals getting BS is not a waste of time now. You whiny people wont be happy till SE sends a D.ring thats far from the best anymore.

If you got 1 seal every 5 minutes, and never slept or left the game for any reason it'd take you 416.6666666 days to theoretically get a d.ring.

There is nothing else in the entire game (even relics/mythics) that take that long.

[Bumbeen]

Good thing d ring isn't required then eh? What is the problem with some gear being extremely rare and only gotten if really lucky? As long as it doesn't make any content impossible to beat without it what is the problem?

[MarkovChain]

D ring will be great when they uncap pdt/mdt which they might be forced to do with all the crap gear they added recently (for instance pdt/mdt ears and neck). Currently it's only advantage is saving invo slots, and they greatly fixed invo troubles recently so it's compeltely useless.

[Byrth]

Capping -DT more efficiently is always going to be mildly useful. Shadow Ring, Shadow Mantle, MDT and PDT capped at the same time, etc. Not worth a billion seals and hours spent popping Behemoths and doing KS99s though.

[Raksha]

Good thing d ring isn't required then eh? What is the problem with some gear being extremely rare and only gotten if really lucky? As long as it doesn't make any content impossible to beat without it what is the problem?

Like Almighty Apkallu?

Oh wait they changed that to be more accessible didn't they?

[Bumbeen]

Like Almighty Apkallu?

Oh wait they changed that to be more accessible didn't they?

So? ........

[Raksha]

So? ........

So if we keep asking maybe they'll make d.ring more accessible as well?

[Bumbeen]

So if we keep asking maybe they'll make d.ring more accessible as well?

That would eliminate the point of d.ring though if they made it more accessible. It isn't needed for anything except inv+ as mentioned. Nothing in the game requires it, nothing in the game is even made that much easier with it. It's a super rare item and there's no reason to change that. All it would do is depreciate it's value.

Do you want every single person in the game to all have the best equipment for every single job? We will all be the same and nothing is worth anything. Nothing is worth striving for because everybody has everything. We can all be clones and it won't matter what job any of us use. Let's flip coins for who comes mage or tank or dd and nobody can have any pride in their favorite job.

[Raksha]

That would eliminate the point of d.ring though if they made it more accessible. It isn't needed for anything except inv+ as mentioned. Nothing in the game requires it, nothing in the game is even made that much easier with it. It's a super rare item and there's no reason to change that. All it would do is depreciate it's value.


You could've made tha same argument about almighty apkallu was my point.

No one gives a shit about him any more so they made him pop more often.

There's no reason to make Kb/nid/aspid poppable if you add insane requirements to pop them. They've basically just wasted a whole lot of time and havent changed anything.

Anyway, doesn't look like SE is gonna change it any time soon. Guess my LS will just continue ignoring kings like we always have.

[MarkovChain]

Capping -DT more efficiently is always going to be mildly useful. Shadow Ring, Shadow Mantle, MDT and PDT capped at the same time, etc. Not worth a billion seals and hours spent popping Behemoths and doing KS99s though.

Because an item that procs 5% of the time is so useful. The arch DL drops seem better too but probably still have a too low proc rate to be useful.


That would eliminate the point of d.ring though if they made it more accessible. It isn't needed for anything except inv+ as mentioned. Nothing in the game requires it, nothing in the game is even made that much easier with it. It's a super rare item and there's no reason to change that. All it would do is depreciate it's value.

Sorry but verethragna lvl 90 makes you a god compared to before yet every one has it so why not apply this to Dring ? On a scale of usefulness, D ring is worth 1 and vere 100, noone has Dring everyone has vere...



Do you want every single person in the game to all have the best equipment for every single job?

Isn't this the case already ?

[Nynja]

No one gives a shit about him any more so they made him pop more often.

There's no reason to make Kb/nid/aspid poppable if you add insane requirements to pop them. They've basically just wasted a whole lot of time and havent changed anything.

Thats just the problem. Most of the drops are obsoleted, so they move to pop NM's, but make it so the HQ are beyond rare, why?

[DebbieGibson]

Buy themis orb 500k, 10x for HQ trigger, 20x of those for dring. 100mil on average for d.ring. Sounds right? I don't know if you can buy themis orbs for 500k though.

Selling the tongues would offset that cost by a lot as well.

[Raksha]

Buy themis orb 500k, 10x for HQ trigger, 20x of those for dring. 100mil on average for d.ring. Sounds right? I don't know if you can buy themis orbs for 500k though.

Selling the tongues would offset that cost by a lot as well.

except it'd be 12 orbs with th9+ * 20 = 240 * 500.000 = 120.000.000

But what's another 20mil amirite?

[DebbieGibson]

except it'd be 12 orbs with th9+ * 20 = 240 * 500.000 = 120.000.000

But what's another 20mil amirite?

ffxiah lists 1m in a couple baz with 500k in one. You can probably shout and get noobs who think 500k is a lot of gil though. Even if it cost you 1m though, if you can afford 120m worth of themis orbs you can afford 240m too most likely. So all in all not bad for a rank 1 bonanza prize.

[Raksha]

ffxiah lists 1m in a couple baz with 500k in one. You can probably shout and get noobs who think 500k is a lot of gil though. Even if it cost you 1m though, if you can afford 120m worth of themis orbs you can afford 240m too most likely. So all in all not bad for a rank 1 bonanza prize.

Kinda funny buying d.rings from noobs instead of big shells don't you think?

[Crysten]

Apologies for the necrobump here, but I'd like to chime in with my own personal experience since the update.

Me and two of my friends have been scraping our seals together in an effort to get my Black Belt, and frankly, at this point, the grind is getting almost ridiculous - I am by no means expecting things to be handed to me on a silver platter, but my current record stands like this:

Bearing in mind I had a THF present at every NQ king pop with at least TH8.

Early Bird Catches the Wyrm:
Wyrm Beard -1/7, Nidhogg pops - 0

Horns of War:
Behemoth Tongue - 0/15, King Behemoth pops - 0

I haven't even attempted The Hills are Alive yet, but I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing numbers similar to these.

At this stage, I've spent over 2600 seals/crests across 3 characters (300 alone for one orb last night). At this stage I'm wondering why on Earth the drop rates for these items, and the means to obtain them are in such a state. Considering the redundancy of a lot of gear from kings, I wonder why the pops are so rare at this point. Considering the scarce nature of Kindred Seals in this point in the game, I wonder why a 3:1 ratio was imposed on all seals, rather than a straight 1:1 or even a tiered system (all seals and crests drop with the same frequency and in the same pool!).

I can't help but feel the development team is slipping into old habits post Abyssea, and back into the habit of giving a depressing effort to reward ratio for events now and forthcoming. :/

[Raksha]

Well since it got necro'd I'll add more numbers:

9 early birds, 1 beard, 1 speed belt, 0 ridills, 0 nidhoggs.

[Ravenmore]

On 4 NQ faffys we got 3 HQ nidhoggs. 1 beard from the 99 2 from the HQ. no lolridills 2 e.bodys, 2 n.legs and 2 n.heads

[Raksha]

On 4 NQ faffys we got 3 HQ nidhoggs. 1 beard from the 99 2 from the HQ. no lolridills 2 e.bodys, 2 n.legs and 2 n.heads

lucky! you had TH?

[Ravenmore]

yeah, why wouldn't you take TH? Though I did opened my mouth and jinxed it on #4 faffy.

[Khelandros]

7/47 on Cups of Sweet Tea;
2-3/7 on Nidhogg BB Item;
0/47 on Ridill post-update (0/65+ overall).

Can anyone attest to Ridill dropping post-update? Starting to believe it is in the same pool as the HQ trigger.

[Karbuncle]

And i wanted a Ridill as a toy :(

[Chrian]

ridill still fun these days>

[Alderin]

Just to once again add to the sample.

Attempt 1: Behemoth

2/3 HQ pops.
Highest TH was 8.

Attempt 2: Fafnir

1/8 HQ pops.
Highest TH was 9 (however it wasn't the pop that dropped HQ)

[ruch]

feel free to actually do work instead of coming here complaing that your 22 pops didnt all drop what you wanted


welcome to ffxi, have we met before?

22 pops too many......

[Byrth]

Spent 16 KS99 orbs and got 1 black belt item. 6 turtles gave 0 HQ pops.

[FrankReynolds]

I would save my seals. Shout and buy the items form people that don't need em, then Shout and sell them to people when they increase the drop rate :P

[Anucris]

I feel u on this one. Defending ring is a little less than a 1/20 drop. That's a lot of work getting Thant many savory shanks. I hate it. And there expensive if u find one for sell 4-6 mil

[Nynja]

another 7 faf pops, another 7 nodrops...

all with TH7+, no double abju drop, no N.Hd, but hey I got another Ridill?

Can I get some bloody feedback on this, because its getting absurd.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Ive yet to try or do this myself but i can say that if they intend to keep this system in place, they need to do one of three things.

A. Offer an alternate source to obtain the pop items for NQ/HQ
B. Lower the KSNM cost from 99 to 30/33 seals, or even 40-50, it would substantially increase one's chances to do this.
C. Raise the drop rate on HQ pop, possibly to 65%-100% Because as it stands, little of the loot, and abjurations are still worth using.

Even looking at this myself, i consider blackbelt, but at the moment i just want a wyrmal abj body, it looks really cool.

[FrankReynolds]

I just can't afford to blow my seals at these drop rates. People are selling the HQ pops for over 3 million Gil on Cerberus.

[Byrth]

I just can't afford to blow my seals at these drop rates. People are selling the HQ pops for over 3 million Gil on Cerberus.

Haha, if you see one for only 3mil you should buy it. I sold a Sweet Tea for 9mil, and they regularly go for 7+.

[SNK]

14 Behemoth pops with TH10-11 and no HQ. There's some more sampling for you guys.

[Nynja]

I just can't afford to blow my seals at these drop rates. People are selling the HQ pops for over 3 million Gil on Cerberus.

I'd buy them at 3 mil, Nid goes for about 8 mil on Carb (almost typed Gilga haha) and KB goes for about 15...IF you can find someone selling them.

[Kogenta]

Years ago we were fighting to get a single dragon everyday, and we considered ourselves lucky if we managed to claim once a week. The situation has pretty much changed, and if you are doing Kings is either for BB drops or for NostalgiaDrops. I helped on a lot of KSNM99, like a dozen Wyrms + a dozen fafnir, ten Horns + ten behemoth + 1 KB. I see HQ triggers selling for 10m on Ragna and KSNM99 pops for over 1m. It's okay to lower droprates of BB to actually EARN them, but wtf guys how is this REVAMPING old content if you have to fight against ridicolous Salvage-like droprates. It's OLD, let us do more Nidhogg, Monks are not even going to get their BB items 100% from it, so what's the problem <_<

[Insaniac]

I'm pretty annoyed that there was never a response to this. I feel like Tanaka snuck in and changed some code to keep his legacy of pain alive. I would also like to point out because I don't know if it has been mentioned but the double NQ drop rate from KS99s is just freaking terrible. Like 1-2% terrible.

[Sargent]

Can add to the statistics
0/20 on Nidhogg
0/10 on Behemoth
all had TH7+

HQ pops are 10m+ on Leviathan, KB being the more expensive.

[Crysten]

One shining piece of positive news out of this. 1/2 on Red Pondweed after blowing 2 mill on 2 Adamantoise pops. I had to take three THFs to SATA it to death though, TH10 each time. It simply didn't live long enough for us to proc any higher.

On the other end of the spectrum, it ultimately took 25 Behemoth pops for me to get an HQ.

Very much with Nynja at this point - I would apppreciate the dev's stance on this issue, because it seems this is an ongoing problem. Why is the development team so adamant about keeping the playerbase from realistically accessing kings content?

[Byrth]

Apparently the JPs agree (http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/32a518fee627bbafeded4ce1ff8e075a.jpg). Needs more Placebo!

[Nynja]

I would also like to point out because I don't know if it has been mentioned but the double NQ drop rate from KS99s is just freaking terrible. Like 1-2% terrible.

Theres a double drop?

[Byrth]

Theres a double drop?

SE originally hinted there was. I've personally not seen it or not seen it reported.

[Insaniac]

I was going to say I've seen it once but now you are making me question it. I'm only 70% sure I've actually seen a double drop in 100+ KS99s.

[Byrth]

It comes from this post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/5774-dev1009-New-Trigger-Conditions-for-Notorious-Monsters)they made, but after going 20/20 on single NQ drops from KS99s, I just started assuming they were trying to reassure us that it wouldn't be less than 100%.

[Nynja]

I know after having done god knows how many KS99's post patch, I've yet to see a double drop. Its always been the pop item 3rd slot from the bottom.