Auto Reraise

[Tasuki]

Now that there is a trait as Auto-Reraise, will white mage get this trait soon?

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Would be good, but would:

1. Ruin the need of the reraise line of spells.
2. Be over-powered for WHM, having an ATMA is only good in Abyssea, and the Twilight stuff doesn't allow use as a WHM.
3. Allow WHM's to be lazy and just spam Cure's and not do anything else.

[Retsujo]

an auto-reraise wouldn't have to be Reraise III. It could be a Lv95 or 99 trait, be Reraise 1, and give 70 levels between learning the first Reraise and getting it as an automatic trait, making it useless anyway from Reraise II and especially Reraise III.

I don't understand how having a Reraise trait would keep WHMs from casting anything but Cure. All it would do is keep WHMs from using the MP to cast Reraise if they're fine with whatever xp loss they would get over not having Reraise III up. Any whm that doesn't keep Reraise up... well, far be it from me to judge, but that in itself is just lazy.

I like the idea! I would like to see it ^^

EDIT: Not to mention those times where you're in the heat of battle, things are going annoyingly bad, you're focusing on curing party members and healing status ailments, and your reraise wears off in the midst of all that and you all wipe. It'd be nice to have a backup.

[Kari]

Only real problem is Exp Loss is no longer a threat.
Most people don't really care if they have RR or RR3 on anymore.

Although I'd like to see this, don't think it's happening.

[Akiyama]

I'd say one of the major problems involved with this is players being able to use Auto-Reraise to their advantage by using 'zombie' tactics. Although it is possible to do now, outside of Abyssea this still has the restriction of recasting a Reraise spell to hold claim or delay a monster to either move it to a different location, or wait on arriving players or players healing from weakness.

And also, if this trait was given to WHM, why would they not be in the habit of casting Reraise III on themselves anyway? MP concerns aren't so much an issue anymore with either Atmas inside Abyssea or Refresh II/Ballad III and more 'Refresh+' gear outside Abyssea.

Although Auto-Reraise works in previous FF titles, I think that this trait is more suited towards the Single-Player titles to avoid the 'Game Over' screen and isn't really needed in an MMO.

[Kari]

I'd say one of the major problems involved with this is players being able to use Auto-Reraise to their advantage by using 'zombie' tactics. Although it is possible to do now, outside of Abyssea this still has the restriction of recasting a Reraise spell to hold claim or delay a monster to either move it to a different location, or wait on arriving players or players healing from weakness.

And also, if this trait was given to WHM, why would they not be in the habit of casting Reraise III on themselves anyway? MP concerns aren't so much an issue anymore with either Atmas inside Abyssea or Refresh II/Ballad III and more 'Refresh+' gear outside Abyssea.

Although Auto-Reraise works in previous FF titles, I think that this trait is more suited towards the Single-Player titles to avoid the 'Game Over' screen and isn't really needed in an MMO.

Zombie tactics really don't work.
It takes a long time to do anything after the raise animation. The monster will have one-shotted you by the time you could target it.
Auto-reraise is only mildly useful. It makes things less stressful at times, but if everyone is weakened it's pretty much GG.

[kizaza]

maybe if they have it as a merit starting at r1

[Tasuki]

Well i agree with some of it but not really all thou:

1) A lot of spells right now are rather useless due to the fact they are outdated, ex: why still cast a lower protect 1 when u have protect 5. And a lot of people right now don't really mind losing experience any more at higher lvls due to the fact its so easy to get experience back: ex like lvl sync, campaign battle, abyssea and maybe in the future dynamis. So basically Reraise 3 now is no better than reraise 1.

2) over-powered for whm, not sure (well maybe a bit for whm melees =P ). We still have weakness after being raised so a whm cannot really go into battle immediately. plus with the other job enhancements on DD right now im not sure being 'over-powered' in terms of strength or even solo fight whm can even do when they are defeated.

3) I agree thou that this can make whm to be lazy, turning them into mindless healing robots maybe =P

But anyway, in my opinion the whole reraise line is actually useless because its easy to get exp back now. And Reraise can be used by other jobs as well just by subbing it, so the spell being 'exclusive' to whm is rather useless now. The only instance reraise will matter if a party or alliance gets wiped. And if the monster have a dispelling ability to dispell reraise or reraise wore off, or someone run into a weaken mage which haven't cast reraise yet.

Maybe the idea of Auto-reraise trait seems too much for whm, but I do think whm needs to have stronger (maybe useful reraise) now at higher lvls. Maybe Raise-aga? or maybe Reraise IV which immediately ignores weakness after raising? who knows =P

[MetalKhaos]

WHM does not need an Auto-Reraise. If you forget to cast Reraise on yourself, well then, that's all on you. I've done it plenty of times, but most other times I keep it up no matter what I'm doing.

The thought of something like Raise-ga as Tasuki mentioned or even a ReRaise-ga that could give all party members within area of effect the effect of Reraise (Time limited based on MND or whatever). I already feel like a lot of this game has been made MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH easier than it was in the past.

[Retsujo]

A lot of spells right now are rather useless due to the fact they are outdated, ex: why still cast a lower protect 1 when u have protect 5.

Lesser tier enhancement spells are still useful for things like level sync or PLing a low level party in that the duration of the effect is proportionate to the spell's level and the character's level it's being cast on.

[Simian]

The differences between Raise 1 and Raise 3 is not casting time or magic cost. R3 recast time is now slightly faster than R2. And all Raise and reraise spells are at 150 mp cost. The difference is the amount of HP recovered by the raised player and the percentage of HP lost by that player. R3 can save a level where R1 might not be able to. The point of this is that if the player is wearing level specific gear and falls under that level then you could have an unarmed melee or tank for that matter. Otherwise they are virtually interchangeable.

[Tasuki]

Lesser tier enhancement spells are still useful for things like level sync or PLing a low level party in that the duration of the effect is proportionate to the spell's level and the character's level it's being cast on.

I was talking about higher tier uses of course. Ok lets make this realistic. What is the difference between Reraise 1, Reraise 2, Reraise 3? The lost of experience. At higher levels given the updates now, does it matter now? Basically a Reraise now pretty much is same as Reraise 2 or Reraise 3 due to the fact you can get experience back faster. (abyssea, dominion, lvl sync, and soon dynamis).

There are at times monsters that can dispell status, or at times out of the blue your reraise wore the same time a monster casting a huge AoE attack, or you are in the middle of rising up and the monster did a AoE attack. These are situations that make a veteran whm not cast reraise on itself.

I'm glad SE pretty much made it better now to get exp, but just because of it the line of Reraise magics just kinda rather made useless. Not like the old school before where a lot of people are happy to have reraise 3 because they only lost less exp. Well just my opinion on the Reraise spells

[Simian]

Tasuki - let's say you are in the middle of Dynamis where you currently get no exp. You have just turned 76 and not far into it and you are showing off all your shiny level 76 gear. oops, you die, you lost your level. Now all that shiny new level 76 gear means squat and you have no way to immediately recoup your lost exp because, well, at the moment, Dynamis does not give exp. So now you fight naked or weaponless or both. R3 might have saved you that embarassment. Of course the prudent thing would have been not to leave your level 75 gear in your mog house. That is my point. The one good thing about there being little differences between the 3 Raises is that a WHM like myself, even weakened, has enough MP for 3 raises and a Haste and can get a wipe up and going faster.

[cealia]

WHMs are the ones that should get auto-reraise. they get all the RR spells, why not auto? people think they would become overpowered. which imo, is a stupid assumption. as a career whm myself, we need more uniqueness. we've lost this due to the introduction of dnc and scholar, and SE giving most of our whmy spells to other classes.

it should be a no-brainer to give the raiser auto-reraise.

[Tasuki]

yup your right Simian at the moment dynamis doesnt give you exp. But like i said very soon dynamis will give you exp. And besides, if you pretty much attend dynamis you know to always have a exp buffer with you. I mean if you do dynamis, you should expect pretty much to die. Again, my point is pretty much sticking out again. With the updates right now, because it is easy to get experience back now reraise line of spells has lost its uniqueness for whm. Heck even a summoner now can cast reraise by just subbing whm and reraise is not much difference anymore than a reraise 3 on a whm because of the easy exp back.

Like Cealia has said, whm just lost its uniqueness of their reraise now. for me, whm is pretty much known for curing, and raising. (well although i know some people try to re-define whm by being melee as well =P). I think its just fair to make their reraise spells more unique for whm. Back in the old days they treat exp like gold, that is why reraise for whm is like heaven sent, now ,its just come and go, so importance of reraise line drops to like the first tier.

Anyway just my opinion again =P , at least one person sees my opinion ^^

[Luvbunny]

SE can add reraise-ga which gives you the benefit of reraise 2 for everyone in the party. This will make Whms indispensable and must have for any endgame events and put the job in the forefront of the best healers with absolutely no competition. If they gonna do this, might as well add party based spells that will absorb single critical physical hits and also another spells that will absorb any single magic damage to the party.

[Shenul]

Luvbunny: *cough*Goddess's Hymnus*cough* (yes I know the duration is horrible)

Auto-Reraise is a good idea, but not in the same way that the Atma has done it. Here's what I'm thinking:
- Once the WHM is KO'd, it checks if the player has a raise effect on them every 5 minutes (starting at 55 minutes left until auto Home Pointing). If one is not in effect, an auto-raise effect will be placed on the WHM.
- If the Auto-Reraise trait raise is accepted, Weakness is applied as per a Raise 1, but MP is auto-filled to the Weakness Max MP. (So if you die with 21 MP left, normal Max MP is 1000, and weakened Max MP is 250, MP will be set to 250).
- Weakness Max MP will have a minimum limit of 150 MP.

The idea is that a WHM with Auto-Reraise will always be able to get up and immediately cast a raise spell within 5 minutes of dying. This also allows spells like Reraise III and the Auto-Reraise atma to override the Job Trait. It makes it more of a backup measure for when RR wears when it's hairy and you can't recast it before you die. 10 minutes of WHM downtime is easier than home pointing and running somewhere, and it does it without that all-important zoning.

[Neisan_Quetz]

In Abyssea it's way faster to just HP than Reraise weakened for 5 minutes most of the time. AutoReraise is unnecessary for WHM as it is.

[Fetus]

This is completely unnecessary for WHM at all. Inside of Abyssea or outside. Auto Refresh would be infinitely more useful, although neither bring anything novel or unique to WHM at all. If you can't remember to case RR1-3 on yourself, use a Scroll of Instant RR or use a charge from any of the items that grant RR1-3, then maybe you should rethink your play strategy...

And why would Reraisega I grant the effect or Reraise II? That makes no sense whatsoever. As for being indispensable, WHM already is. If you find yourself not being desired for "end game" LS activities or whatever, maybe it's just because your bad at the job or something. As is, WHM are the superior healers and have no competition.

[Hoshi]

We used to make fun of people who didn't have a buffer in dynamis for a reason! :P EXP is so meaningless thanks to abyssea that I deathwarp on most jobs now and there are still times when I find homepointing and coming back unweakened more effective than spending 5 min in weakness watching my friends struggle.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Luvbunny: *cough*Goddess's Hymnus*cough* (yes I know the duration is horrible)

Auto-Reraise is a good idea, but not in the same way that the Atma has done it. Here's what I'm thinking:
- Once the WHM is KO'd, it checks if the player has a raise effect on them every 5 minutes (starting at 55 minutes left until auto Home Pointing). If one is not in effect, an auto-raise effect will be placed on the WHM.
- If the Auto-Reraise trait raise is accepted, Weakness is applied as per a Raise 1, but MP is auto-filled to the Weakness Max MP. (So if you die with 21 MP left, normal Max MP is 1000, and weakened Max MP is 250, MP will be set to 250).
- Weakness Max MP will have a minimum limit of 150 MP.

The idea is that a WHM with Auto-Reraise will always be able to get up and immediately cast a raise spell within 5 minutes of dying. This also allows spells like Reraise III and the Auto-Reraise atma to override the Job Trait. It makes it more of a backup measure for when RR wears when it's hairy and you can't recast it before you die. 10 minutes of WHM downtime is easier than home pointing and running somewhere, and it does it without that all-important zoning.

And that wouldn't be broken at all...

"Don't worry guys, I forgot RR but it doesn't matter, the game itself will RR me and better yet, even though I ran out of MP I have enough to Raise aswell. Easy mode just got easier, YAY!!!!"

[Shenul]

And that wouldn't be broken at all...

"Don't worry guys, I forgot RR but it doesn't matter, the game itself will RR me and better yet, even though I ran out of MP I have enough to Raise aswell. Easy mode just got easier, YAY!!!!"

Hey, I've always got RR3 up, even when just standing in town. I'm paranoid. But I've also had RR wear at the worst times, too.

Ok, sure, the game will RR you and give you enough MP to raise. Cool, let's take a look at that. After you die, if you have RR up, you get the raise acceptance immediately. That means you have 5 minutes over someone without my version of auto-reraise. With no MP, it's not hard to get enough MP for two raises and cast them before the auto-reraise version gets up and gets one raise off. And by that time, the one with the actual RR spell is now out of a weakened state.

Or, you could have AUTO RERAISE 3 ON AN ATMA. Even though it's area-restricted, seems to be a LOT more broken than a delayed RR1.

[Celedh]

Fact 1 : WHM already has Reraise
Fact 2 : The only time the WHM does not have Reraise up is when he forgets it, dispelled by some effect (capped areas, BCNM fights, or Dynamis COP zones restoring subjobs), lost the effect barely a few seconds before dying, or didn't have the MP after Raising back up.

Giving an Auto-Reraise (Raise 1 effect) trait would only serve as a failproof against these possible instances. EXP loss is arguably a concern of the past with Abyssea, you get it back in a few minutes worth.

On the other hand, more and more jobs do have access to Raise now, as subjob levels have caught up allowing even RDM subjob to have a Raise handy. Unless you are the sole healing type in your run, there shouldn't be a need for such a Trait. If you are too busy fighting a big monster to think about Reraise, it's probably due to bad planning as you should have casted it before starting the boss fight.

Basically, while a good idea, I'd like to avoid tossing the blame at SquareEnix for people's shortcomings when they happen :P They don't have to add things so you don't have to do your job.

[Tasuki]

So basically, the Reraise line is practically reduced to just to first tier, and practically useless inside abyssea (for those people who got auto-reraise atma). Which makes reraise just a regular spell to be used by any job that is sub whm. No exclusiveness, just another spell than can be used by all jobs subbing whitemage. If the rest of the whitemage is fine by that, I will not a argue my point anymore. A lot of people here don't get my point of Reraise being a exclusive spell for whitemage, but rather point out the point out the mistakes of whitemages which is not my point. Abyssea did create major changes to the game, but also kinda degraded some stuff too. One of it is the reraise line of spells, the Auto-reraise is kinda a suggestion, because hey you see them as a atma already why not whm have it too?. (oh ya, even twilight equipment have it too, so makes raise rather more useful now....) Maybe if the upgrade the effects of Reraise line of spells will make it more useful and exclusive to whm. No wait that will make the game easier right? Like Rdm being given refresh 2 because blu's refresh is stronger than rdm? probably not just being fair. I repeat, it doesn't have to be Auto-reraise. <_< . Auto-reraise is just like a mere suggestion. but rather what im trying to say is a upgrade of Reraise line of spells for whm.

[Bubeeky]

Whm in general doesn't have enough significant abilities to set them above and beyond other jobs...it's not just raise/reraise...we have Cure V and VI and Auspice and Esuna and the Cura spells and that's it

[Simian]

ReRaise is not really as WHM exclusive as people would like to think or believe. With scrolls of reraise available for 7 gil, or even the reraise gear. Only WHM has a spell for it, and the highest RR item I have seen is only RR2 (I might not be fully aware of all items so I am not sure if there is an RR3 item out there).

Auto reraise for WHM is, in my opinion, a lazy perk.

[Aleste]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18398/raphaels-rod

[Main] All Races
DPS: 750 DMG:40 Delay:320 Enchantment: "Reraise III"
LV 75 All Jobs
<8/8 32/[00:02:0, 30]>


Only time I can think that a some sort of auto-reraise would come in handy is for those very rare times when you are kicked out of a battlefield, and it removes your reraise effect... but didn't they patch that?

[Karumac]

Well, Zombie Tanking an NM on THF is pretty funny.

[Bubeeky]

Well, Zombie Tanking an NM on THF is pretty funny.

totally agreed...a friend did that with me once and it was funnier than hell watching him get up over and over and over lol

[Simian]

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/18398/raphaels-rod

[Main] All Races
DPS: 750 DMG:40 Delay:320 Enchantment: "Reraise III"
LV 75 All Jobs
<8/8 32/[00:02:0, 30]>


Only time I can think that a some sort of auto-reraise would come in handy is for those very rare times when you are kicked out of a battlefield, and it removes your reraise effect... but didn't they patch that?

I forgot about the rod. Thanks for pointing it out. I does well illustrate my point and the one instance you bring up would be just about the only reason to have it.

But in the overall scheme of things, when job additions appear to be well metered, this would not rank very highly as a "need to have" thing, more like a toss in kind of thing.

[Duzell]

Auto Re-Raise could be made balanced, for instance, if it gave back no xp (so its as if you home pointed) and would not activate if you died in an already weakened state. This would make it only cover you if you RR3 wore for a few seconds mid battle, and prevent zombie whm apocolypse.

[Venrymel]

Honestly, I think that with RR scrolls being so inexpensive, being available through FoV, Atma and numerous /JOBs, adding a RR trait might be like "Resident Evil 5"s "adreneline shot" for multiplayer. It takes away the threat that looms over everyone's heads and encourages them to strategize.

Yes, sometimes I get defeated right after I activate RR; yes, sometimes it wears off mid-hectic-battle. I see these as places where the player has an opportunity to improve fighting style; be aware these things can happen and do your best to prevent it. Sometimes, though, we're just cursed into a situation. It's not a flaw, c'est la vie.

がんばって＾＾

[Eldelphia]

Whm in general doesn't have enough significant abilities to set them above and beyond other jobs...it's not just raise/reraise...we have Cure V and VI and Auspice and Esuna and the Cura spells and that's it

I'm not sure in what universe you're playing here...

WHM has Solace/Misery/Sacrifice/Esuna/Cure V/VI/higher level regens and the most amazing gear sets. And how you can say 'and that's it' when Cure V and VI are keeping us at the top of the healing tree right now I honestly don't know.

[Fetus]

Honestly, I think that with RR scrolls being so inexpensive, being available through FoV, Atma and numerous /JOBs, adding a RR trait might be like "Resident Evil 5"s "adreneline shot" for multiplayer. It takes away the threat that looms over everyone's heads and encourages them to strategize.

Yes, sometimes I get defeated right after I activate RR; yes, sometimes it wears off mid-hectic-battle. I see these as places where the player has an opportunity to improve fighting style; be aware these things can happen and do your best to prevent it. Sometimes, though, we're just cursed into a situation. It's not a flaw, c'est la vie.

がんばって＾＾

This.

Quit suggesting that WHM get Auto-Reraise. It's a stupid idea. Come up with something better.

[Tasuki]

A lot of people before too think that Thomas Edison or Newton or even Aristotle think they have stupid ideas but you see now their ideas now are basis of other researches and other scientific break-through. People come here to input their ideas whether how outrageous or realistic are they. I suggest don't discourage them. If you dont agree with them simply say why you disagree but don't say its stupid because they are just being creative.

[Alkimi]

Whm in general doesn't have enough significant abilities to set them above and beyond other jobs...it's not just raise/reraise...we have Cure V and VI and Auspice and Esuna and the Cura spells and that's it

Cure V and VI is exactly what sets WHM above other jobs.

[Aleste]

5 yes, 6 doubtful...

[Bubeeky]

I'm not sure in what universe you're playing here...

WHM has Solace/Misery/Sacrifice/Esuna/Cure V/VI/higher level regens and the most amazing gear sets. And how you can say 'and that's it' when Cure V and VI are keeping us at the top of the healing tree right now I honestly don't know.

solace is nice, but only noticable by tanks that need to recast utsusemi, otherwise ppl hardly even seem to realize it has had an effect because it's more a convenience than a necessity, misery is useful only for esuna, sacrifice is forgettable, and I said already that esuna was one of our good spells...cure VI is a joke outside of the occasional need in Abyssea but it's good for a massive emergency cure, and regens don't cure fast enough to be noticable if a whm is really really needed...even IV, and I use my regens regularly...other jobs have abilities and whatnot that could put us right back at the forgettable status we were at during the lvl 75 cap, when rdm could do better than us simply because they never ran out of mp, and sch could manipulate the spells in ways we could only dream of...I maintain what I said before...Cure V and VI are the only thing that keeps us at the top of the healing tree.

[Simian]

solace is nice, but only noticable by tanks that need to recast utsusemi, otherwise ppl hardly even seem to realize it has had an effect because it's more a convenience than a necessity, misery is useful only for esuna, sacrifice is forgettable, and I said already that esuna was one of our good spells...cure VI is a joke outside of the occasional need in Abyssea but it's good for a massive emergency cure, and regens don't cure fast enough to be noticable if a whm is really really needed...even IV, and I use my regens regularly...other jobs have abilities and whatnot that could put us right back at the forgettable status we were at during the lvl 75 cap, when rdm could do better than us simply because they never ran out of mp, and sch could manipulate the spells in ways we could only dream of...I maintain what I said before...Cure V and VI are the only thing that keeps us at the top of the healing tree.

Devotion and Martyr and Benediction

Devotion and Martyr are godly in the hands of a Galka WHm

And with all the ways to get revitalized, especially in Abyssea, Benediction is not such a last resort as it used to be.

[Bubeeky]

the only reason I didn't mention devotion and martyr is because with all the refresh things these days, both in and out of abyssea, Devotion isn't all that useful anymore, and martyr is only an extreme last resort, and quite honestly, I forget I have it most of the time.