kingfury
05-22-2011, 10:40 PM
In an effort to pull all these very similar threads together to discuss the possibilities in one place, I felt this thread was a way to do it. That, and the one thread that actually got a response from the Community Reps(Camate) has pretty low traffic(Gameplay->Other), so I'm pretty sure few people have actually taken notice. The Devs are in fact working on possible solutions to this very problem, and are aware that MANY players are requesting this problem be rectified. If you missed it, here's the Post in which they responded to the topic at hand:
(Post #16 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7841-Server-wide-shouts?p=102818&viewfull=1#post102818) of the Thread)
Though we need to do some more testing, and we are not sure whether it would be possible yet, we are looking into the possibility of making/displaying shouts throughout multiple areas.
To be a bit more specific, we will be looking into grouping certain areas server side so that a shout from one of the areas in that group will be heard from each of the other areas.
For example:
If Ru’Lude Gardens/Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno were to be grouped together, making a shout in Ru’Lude would be heard in the other areas (Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno). However, this would ultimately quadruple the server load, so we will definitely need to pay close attention to this.
-------------
I wanted to post this idea in "General Discussion" where the attention of each suggestion can be made reachable and not lost in the back corners of the Forum's forgotten threads. I wanted to add my suggestion of "/Seacomshouts" to the mix and create a directory to the several other "Server-Wide Shout" Threads out there as well. For the record, I do believe this issue can be resolved in a way that satisfies nearly everyone(You can never satisfy everyone lol), and I believe the more feedback and ideas we give to the Devs, the closer the solution will be for us to enjoy.
------------
The "/SEACOMSHOUT (SUBJECT) Command":
Now my 1st thought was "Why not make the Key Item Link Pearl concept that offers channel filters" and such like Juilan and a few others brought up:
"Try to find a way to set it up like a linkshell, you can sign on to the linkshell to view server shouts, I see no difference there than a large ls with 64 people, other than the requirement of making /sh do two things... or make it so people just cant see the shouts XD"
But after thinking about the concept more, and more, Illianna has a very valid point here:
"This sounds an awful lot like a better /seacom system... one where you could search comments by keywords ^.^; Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to make the tools that already exist more user friendly rather than think up something completely new?"
The point is, we're already connected to each other "World wide" without any new system being implemented via the /seacom system. At the core of the issue at hand, people simply want to add the functionality to both "Continuously Play the game while being updated on any and all relevant pick-up happenings being planned at the time regardless of where they might be in the world", and "Effectively communicate with everyone world wide when planning a pickup-like event."
Although we are indeed connected to each other via the /seacom system, the system falls short of solving this problem since it cannot "automatically update you via the chat log" based on what players world wide would like to accomplish like a /shout can. We have to manually stop what we're doing to go through each and every single comment if we want to know what's happening with each player listed throughout. That's very inefficient, and can take a bit of time away from "Playing the game". This, in my opinion, is why the /seacom is rarely used by a majority of players. It also falls short of the solution since it can not "Automatically Filter" the type of commented activity you wish to stay tuned into as it is added by players.
The Problem:
I believe it will be difficult to add such a functionality such as a Single channel for /world, /zone, and /area-like "shouts" without people abusing and cluttering up those new airways which would potentially cause 90% of players to just /filter out + /turn off these channels due to being annoyed. Even with a timer set to how often folks could /shout, it would only take a handful of people not interested in anything else other than /shouting about /random mess to start a now "/world wide" poop tossing fight lol. It really wouldn't benefit those that truly want to listen out for valid pickup happenings to have to /filter out these channels based on such buffoonery each time.
A Possible Solution:
I suggest revamping the /seacom's abilities to feel like it's a special Linkshell that has the ability to filter out content based on how that content is plugged in. In essence, it would function like multiple Linkshells combined into one main Linkshell (ex: EXP linkshell, Mission linkshell, Quest linkshell, etc.) where the /seacom system itself would represent the "Shell Sack" that you could easily control and configure to hear only what you wanted to hear. So technically, doing what the /seacom system does already, but just sending those comment messages to our chat logs once inputed using this new command.
*Note* I believe the following new comment topics should be added to the list (since I'll be using one of these in my examples of the /seacomshouts): Abyssea(ABY), N.Monster(NTM), Synergy(SNG), and Help Me Out(HLP).
-Include a new way to quickly type in the /shout-like messages similar to how we would if we wanted to compose a /shout currently but via a new "/seacomshout EXP" or "/seacomshout Abyssea" so it would only be displayed in the chat logs of those that are tuned into those /seacom channels. This way we could be automatically updated in our chat log on all things Abyssea in terms of "Pickup happenings" while freely continuing to play the game. The /seacom shouts would be instantly added the appropriate /seacom channel based on the subject listed in the shout(Example: "/seacomshout (subject)" ) accompanied by perhaps an ending command like "<comment>". So a player composing a "/seacomshout EXP" message would have the message displayed to all those tuned in to EXP /seacomshouts both in a player's chat log and within the /seacom "EXP Party" channel listing as if they put it in using the menus. The amount of time the the comment remains in the listing could possibly be altered to a timed system in which the comment will disappear from the listing should only one /seacomshout be issued. Each time the same player repeatedly inputs the same /seacomshout message, their comment in the appropriate listing could be bumped to the top of the list so as to not create multiple listings for the same comment.
-Visual example of new comment topics and /seacomshout messages
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-1-WEB.jpg
-----------
-Description of how the /seacomshout's inner workings could possibly be designed(From post 27 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/8498-SEACOMSHOUT-%28SUBJECT%29-Command-%2AAll-Server-Wide-Shout-Threads-Compiled-Here%2A?p=107067&viewfull=1#post107067))
The Master Linkshells:
Imagine if each /seacom subject category had a respective Master Linkshell that could only discuss messages and shouts that pertain to their subject category(ex: "EXP" M.Linkshell, "Quest" M.Linkshell, "Missions" M.Linkshell, etc.). For the sake of argument, lets assume that they had the same limits of 64 members per shell as our everyday Linkshells do. The main difference between these linkshells would be that they have the ability to clone themselves multiple times to accommodate the amount of players that are "tuned in" to their respective /seacomshout subject categories. The very moment that 65 players toggle their /seacomshout channels to "ON" for that specfic channel, these Master Linkshells would instantly create a cloned version of itself to house that extra player. Cloned Linkshells would function exactly like their master versions, and would share the same messages sent to their Master Linkshell with all players housed within them. The cloned linkshells would house the same number of players as their masters. The Master Linkshells would constantly monitor how many players are tuned in so to always be ready to create the needed amount of clones to house them. The player game-side would be none the wiser as to this process's happenings, and would only notice an increase in messages being displayed within that /seacomshout subject category.
•The Master Linkshells
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-1-WEB.jpg
Expansion and Sharing of Messages:
On the back end behind the scenes, based on the /seacom category, the Master Linkshells could consider themselves EXP1(Master Linkshell), EXP2(Clone), EXP3(Clone), and so forth up to perhaps a specific limit as the number of tuned in players increase. So ideally, a Master Linkshell could clone itself over 9 times to accommodate 640 players tuned into it's /seacomshout subject category. Depending on the server limits governing Linkshell creation, 1000+ players could all be tuned into the same /seacomshout subject category while being being distributed amongst 16 Linkshells. All able to communicate Server-wide on the corresponding /seacom subject matter of their choosing without disturbing any other players throughout Vana'diel's zones. So long as the player inputs the appropriate subject within the /seacomshout message while composing it(ex: /seacomshout [EXP]), the message will be sent to the appropriate Master Linkshell to be distributed to all cloned linkshells. All /seacomshout messages composed and sent by players would 1st be sent to the Master Linkshells before being shared with clones so the Master Linkshells could determine how many clones need to receive the message. This would ideally happen almost instantly, and no player would be able to notice any lag between composing/sending a /seacomshout message and seeing the message displayed within their chat log as to make it feel similar to how linkshell messages are processed.
•Making Clones
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-2-WEB.jpg
Clone Deletion:
This system would have the ability to expand as needed depending on player load instantly, as well as shrink instantly as players toggle their /seacomshout channels to OFF. Master Linkshells would reserve the ability to permanently delete any cloned linkshell as soon as the reduced player load constitutes they are no longer needed. Should that same load of 640 players tuned in to that /seacomshout channel be reduced to 140, the Master Linkshell would delete 7 clones and house that 140 within 3 linkshells(the Master + 2 Clones). This would constantly be happening throughout the day, all seamlessly behind the scenes as players simply toggle their channels ON/OFF in-game. The Master Linkshells would be diligently cloning and deleting clones to constantly accommodate the number of tuned in players.
•Deleting Cloneshttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-3-WEB.jpg
--------
-Additionally, include an intuitive method of tuning into multiple "/seacom shout topics" at the same time. This way, players could filter in Missions, Quest, Magian, and Abyssea "/seacom shouts" at once all while fishing or killing a NM. Truly, a simple toggle ON/OFF for each /seacom subject would probably be the most intuitive. Simply going down the /seacom comment list and toggling "ON" for all the channels you wish to stay tuned into would suffice. If you no longer wanted to hear the /seacom shouts, simply toggle all of them off. Alternatively, adding a quick "/seacomshout OFF" command would be nice and sweet too. ^^ Adding a "/seacomshout ON" command would tune a player into all /seacom subjects, allowing them to hear /seacomshouts for every topic.
--------------
-What then would stop a player that is hellbent on tossing out drunken conversation into the mix via /seacomshout (subject) at will? Please also include either a special filter that targets individual players within this new shout ability such as "/shoutfilter (Player's Name)", so nothing they attempt to /seacomshout reaches your chat log or your comment listings from that point on, or just make sure /blacklist reaches them through this system :)
So long as the method feels like a natural /shout or /linkshell message when typing it in or receiving it, I think a modified /seacom system could be the answer we're looking for.
Thanks again for listening guys /salute
--------------------
**Server Wide Shouts Directory**
(Post #16 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7841-Server-wide-shouts?p=102818&viewfull=1#post102818) of the Thread)
Though we need to do some more testing, and we are not sure whether it would be possible yet, we are looking into the possibility of making/displaying shouts throughout multiple areas.
To be a bit more specific, we will be looking into grouping certain areas server side so that a shout from one of the areas in that group will be heard from each of the other areas.
For example:
If Ru’Lude Gardens/Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno were to be grouped together, making a shout in Ru’Lude would be heard in the other areas (Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno). However, this would ultimately quadruple the server load, so we will definitely need to pay close attention to this.
-------------
I wanted to post this idea in "General Discussion" where the attention of each suggestion can be made reachable and not lost in the back corners of the Forum's forgotten threads. I wanted to add my suggestion of "/Seacomshouts" to the mix and create a directory to the several other "Server-Wide Shout" Threads out there as well. For the record, I do believe this issue can be resolved in a way that satisfies nearly everyone(You can never satisfy everyone lol), and I believe the more feedback and ideas we give to the Devs, the closer the solution will be for us to enjoy.
------------
The "/SEACOMSHOUT (SUBJECT) Command":
Now my 1st thought was "Why not make the Key Item Link Pearl concept that offers channel filters" and such like Juilan and a few others brought up:
"Try to find a way to set it up like a linkshell, you can sign on to the linkshell to view server shouts, I see no difference there than a large ls with 64 people, other than the requirement of making /sh do two things... or make it so people just cant see the shouts XD"
But after thinking about the concept more, and more, Illianna has a very valid point here:
"This sounds an awful lot like a better /seacom system... one where you could search comments by keywords ^.^; Wouldn't it be a lot easier just to make the tools that already exist more user friendly rather than think up something completely new?"
The point is, we're already connected to each other "World wide" without any new system being implemented via the /seacom system. At the core of the issue at hand, people simply want to add the functionality to both "Continuously Play the game while being updated on any and all relevant pick-up happenings being planned at the time regardless of where they might be in the world", and "Effectively communicate with everyone world wide when planning a pickup-like event."
Although we are indeed connected to each other via the /seacom system, the system falls short of solving this problem since it cannot "automatically update you via the chat log" based on what players world wide would like to accomplish like a /shout can. We have to manually stop what we're doing to go through each and every single comment if we want to know what's happening with each player listed throughout. That's very inefficient, and can take a bit of time away from "Playing the game". This, in my opinion, is why the /seacom is rarely used by a majority of players. It also falls short of the solution since it can not "Automatically Filter" the type of commented activity you wish to stay tuned into as it is added by players.
The Problem:
I believe it will be difficult to add such a functionality such as a Single channel for /world, /zone, and /area-like "shouts" without people abusing and cluttering up those new airways which would potentially cause 90% of players to just /filter out + /turn off these channels due to being annoyed. Even with a timer set to how often folks could /shout, it would only take a handful of people not interested in anything else other than /shouting about /random mess to start a now "/world wide" poop tossing fight lol. It really wouldn't benefit those that truly want to listen out for valid pickup happenings to have to /filter out these channels based on such buffoonery each time.
A Possible Solution:
I suggest revamping the /seacom's abilities to feel like it's a special Linkshell that has the ability to filter out content based on how that content is plugged in. In essence, it would function like multiple Linkshells combined into one main Linkshell (ex: EXP linkshell, Mission linkshell, Quest linkshell, etc.) where the /seacom system itself would represent the "Shell Sack" that you could easily control and configure to hear only what you wanted to hear. So technically, doing what the /seacom system does already, but just sending those comment messages to our chat logs once inputed using this new command.
*Note* I believe the following new comment topics should be added to the list (since I'll be using one of these in my examples of the /seacomshouts): Abyssea(ABY), N.Monster(NTM), Synergy(SNG), and Help Me Out(HLP).
-Include a new way to quickly type in the /shout-like messages similar to how we would if we wanted to compose a /shout currently but via a new "/seacomshout EXP" or "/seacomshout Abyssea" so it would only be displayed in the chat logs of those that are tuned into those /seacom channels. This way we could be automatically updated in our chat log on all things Abyssea in terms of "Pickup happenings" while freely continuing to play the game. The /seacom shouts would be instantly added the appropriate /seacom channel based on the subject listed in the shout(Example: "/seacomshout (subject)" ) accompanied by perhaps an ending command like "<comment>". So a player composing a "/seacomshout EXP" message would have the message displayed to all those tuned in to EXP /seacomshouts both in a player's chat log and within the /seacom "EXP Party" channel listing as if they put it in using the menus. The amount of time the the comment remains in the listing could possibly be altered to a timed system in which the comment will disappear from the listing should only one /seacomshout be issued. Each time the same player repeatedly inputs the same /seacomshout message, their comment in the appropriate listing could be bumped to the top of the list so as to not create multiple listings for the same comment.
-Visual example of new comment topics and /seacomshout messages
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-1-WEB.jpg
-----------
-Description of how the /seacomshout's inner workings could possibly be designed(From post 27 (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/8498-SEACOMSHOUT-%28SUBJECT%29-Command-%2AAll-Server-Wide-Shout-Threads-Compiled-Here%2A?p=107067&viewfull=1#post107067))
The Master Linkshells:
Imagine if each /seacom subject category had a respective Master Linkshell that could only discuss messages and shouts that pertain to their subject category(ex: "EXP" M.Linkshell, "Quest" M.Linkshell, "Missions" M.Linkshell, etc.). For the sake of argument, lets assume that they had the same limits of 64 members per shell as our everyday Linkshells do. The main difference between these linkshells would be that they have the ability to clone themselves multiple times to accommodate the amount of players that are "tuned in" to their respective /seacomshout subject categories. The very moment that 65 players toggle their /seacomshout channels to "ON" for that specfic channel, these Master Linkshells would instantly create a cloned version of itself to house that extra player. Cloned Linkshells would function exactly like their master versions, and would share the same messages sent to their Master Linkshell with all players housed within them. The cloned linkshells would house the same number of players as their masters. The Master Linkshells would constantly monitor how many players are tuned in so to always be ready to create the needed amount of clones to house them. The player game-side would be none the wiser as to this process's happenings, and would only notice an increase in messages being displayed within that /seacomshout subject category.
•The Master Linkshells
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-1-WEB.jpg
Expansion and Sharing of Messages:
On the back end behind the scenes, based on the /seacom category, the Master Linkshells could consider themselves EXP1(Master Linkshell), EXP2(Clone), EXP3(Clone), and so forth up to perhaps a specific limit as the number of tuned in players increase. So ideally, a Master Linkshell could clone itself over 9 times to accommodate 640 players tuned into it's /seacomshout subject category. Depending on the server limits governing Linkshell creation, 1000+ players could all be tuned into the same /seacomshout subject category while being being distributed amongst 16 Linkshells. All able to communicate Server-wide on the corresponding /seacom subject matter of their choosing without disturbing any other players throughout Vana'diel's zones. So long as the player inputs the appropriate subject within the /seacomshout message while composing it(ex: /seacomshout [EXP]), the message will be sent to the appropriate Master Linkshell to be distributed to all cloned linkshells. All /seacomshout messages composed and sent by players would 1st be sent to the Master Linkshells before being shared with clones so the Master Linkshells could determine how many clones need to receive the message. This would ideally happen almost instantly, and no player would be able to notice any lag between composing/sending a /seacomshout message and seeing the message displayed within their chat log as to make it feel similar to how linkshell messages are processed.
•Making Clones
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-2-WEB.jpg
Clone Deletion:
This system would have the ability to expand as needed depending on player load instantly, as well as shrink instantly as players toggle their /seacomshout channels to OFF. Master Linkshells would reserve the ability to permanently delete any cloned linkshell as soon as the reduced player load constitutes they are no longer needed. Should that same load of 640 players tuned in to that /seacomshout channel be reduced to 140, the Master Linkshell would delete 7 clones and house that 140 within 3 linkshells(the Master + 2 Clones). This would constantly be happening throughout the day, all seamlessly behind the scenes as players simply toggle their channels ON/OFF in-game. The Master Linkshells would be diligently cloning and deleting clones to constantly accommodate the number of tuned in players.
•Deleting Cloneshttp://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Seacomshout-examples-3-WEB.jpg
--------
-Additionally, include an intuitive method of tuning into multiple "/seacom shout topics" at the same time. This way, players could filter in Missions, Quest, Magian, and Abyssea "/seacom shouts" at once all while fishing or killing a NM. Truly, a simple toggle ON/OFF for each /seacom subject would probably be the most intuitive. Simply going down the /seacom comment list and toggling "ON" for all the channels you wish to stay tuned into would suffice. If you no longer wanted to hear the /seacom shouts, simply toggle all of them off. Alternatively, adding a quick "/seacomshout OFF" command would be nice and sweet too. ^^ Adding a "/seacomshout ON" command would tune a player into all /seacom subjects, allowing them to hear /seacomshouts for every topic.
--------------
-What then would stop a player that is hellbent on tossing out drunken conversation into the mix via /seacomshout (subject) at will? Please also include either a special filter that targets individual players within this new shout ability such as "/shoutfilter (Player's Name)", so nothing they attempt to /seacomshout reaches your chat log or your comment listings from that point on, or just make sure /blacklist reaches them through this system :)
So long as the method feels like a natural /shout or /linkshell message when typing it in or receiving it, I think a modified /seacom system could be the answer we're looking for.
Thanks again for listening guys /salute
--------------------
**Server Wide Shouts Directory**