Just Got Deluxe Animator! It sucks...

[Shinron-PUP]

Sorry this will probably be my last post about this... been doing it all week heh. Just got Deluxe Animator about an hour ago and it seems to be a bundle of lies.

Deluxe Animator Rare Ex
[Ranged] All Races
DPS: 3 An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model.
LV 87 PUP

Hidden Effect (As far as I can see): DEX +6 (To the master)

There has been no changes on the recast of manuevers, duration of manuevers, skill up speed, or combat increases for the pet. It also cannot be thrown (Big surprise...) and does not give any sort of regain to master or pet. Also overload rate seems the same also...

In summary, don't waste your time. Haven't gotten any sleep this weekend spamming Akupara inside Meriphataud Mountains S and this shit wasn't worth it lol...

P.S. I'll keep you guys updated on what hidden effects are if I find anything else on it through this link.

[Gael]

Well, it's like other animators lol. No reason to have "changes on the recast of manuevers, duration of manuevers, skill up speed, or combat increases for the pet", and i dont see why you could thrown this one or why it should have regain or an impact on the overload rate.

The problem is that ppl are not reasonable. On this forum more that elsewhere. So they post a ton of lolrumors or lolwhishes and then they are disappointed...
(im speaking in general, im not targing you or this post in particular)

There is 2 things we need to know to see it is a waste a time or not. The DEX on it and the boost of HP/MP for the automaton (to see if it's better that the animator +1 which was our best animator until now).
You answered for the DEX part, only left the HP/MP boost now. If it does boost the HP/MP, then it worth it, even if there is no other hidden effect, and if we found hidden effect later, well it will be a bonus :P

[Shinron-PUP]

Sorry it took long to respond, but no there is no HP/MP bonuses on the animator. The reason why people speculated it could be thrown is because it originally had DPS on it when people did data conversions from the May 13th update, and something with DPS has to be used in some way to do damage. Also it isn't too unreasonable to believe that SE would be benevolent enough to give us regain or other benefits from the Deluxe Animator granted it's nearly a 1% drop and the nm to get it off it very hard to take down. My thoughts were regain would be thrown to the Deluxe Animator to compensate for Burattinaos nurf because they might have wanted us to have regain, yet be able to use other hand-to-hands besides that one.
It's definitely not too abstract to ask for a bone from SE granted they put Puppetmaster back in the same place where Black Mage pet is our optimal way of DDing again and other pets are obsolete due to the fact that they can't tank or deal out enough dmg to compare to the DaD method with BLM pet. So yeah, Animator +1 is definitely a better route if you don't feel like being disapointed. It makes no sense that the Deluxe Animator could be worse than the Animator +1 so i'm assuming it might be magian trial'd later on, or they just have the Square Enix branch for puppetmaster creating items that they just don't even test.

[xbobx]

so basically the norm for SE. Put in a pup item that really doesnt do much, is much less usable then other jobs "stuff", make it a really low drop rate, and put it on a hard mob.

ya seems par for the course for SE. a part of me is happy, just another item i dont have to waste a lot of time on.

[Kristal]

Soidh! Can you upload an image to the Deluxe Animator page on http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Deluxe_Animator? And perhaps ffxiclopedia, although I understand that's to die a slow death now.

I'm curious... does the DPS:3 value still appear on the ingame item? Could it be increasing master or pet base damage?
And ofcourse, as asked earlier, is the HP/MP bonus present or not?

[Karbuncle]

DPS Values are on all Ranged item weaponry like that. look at FFXIAH's Jug Pet lists. It means nothing. I can't give you the exact reason its there, but its a worthless number for Items that clearly have no Dmg/delay/means.

It gives DEX+6 (obv) and probably something non-visible to pets. If it gives no bonuses to pets (Which i doubt) then its even worse than Animator+1 in terms of helping your pet.

Either way, there really was no reason to expect it to give anything other than DEX and some minor buff to pets.. none of the other animators did. :\

[Glamdring]

maybe they threw it in as a sub to Animator +1 considering Einherjar is dead? believing Voidwatch might somehow be more viable.

[Kristal]

DPS Values are on all Ranged item weaponry like that. look at FFXIAH's Jug Pet lists. It means nothing. I can't give you the exact reason its there, but its a worthless number for Items that clearly have no Dmg/delay/means.

There is no such number on the jug items ingame. It's an artifact that appears when you use the wrong template to read data, and end up stuffing the wrong bytes in the wrong fields.
Shinron has the ingame Deluxe Animator and reports the stats as having a damage value. And yeah, that's strange, which is why I want to see a screenshot. If I had the new animator, I'd report the stats as shown in-game. Even if I'd copy-pasted it from FFXIAH or elsewhere, I'd still correct/remove the DPS data.

Anyway, that's not important. What is important is the hidden effects on the deluxe animator! I don't think SE would just make it a flat DEX+6. Then again, this is SE... they didn't hesitate to alter a core mechanic of the job after 6? years and then casually mention it as a 'fixed' (as in 'neutered'?) issue in the update notice, while failing to fix actual issues...

[Karbuncle]

There is no such number on the jug items ingame. It's an artifact that appears when you use the wrong template to read data, and end up stuffing the wrong bytes in the wrong fields.
Shinron has the ingame Deluxe Animator and reports the stats as having a damage value. And yeah, that's strange, which is why I want to see a screenshot. If I had the new animator, I'd report the stats as shown in-game. Even if I'd copy-pasted it from FFXIAH or elsewhere, I'd still correct/remove the DPS data.

Anyway, that's not important. What is important is the hidden effects on the deluxe animator! I don't think SE would just make it a flat DEX+6. Then again, this is SE... they didn't hesitate to alter a core mechanic of the job after 6? years and then casually mention it as a 'fixed' (as in 'neutered'?) issue in the update notice, while failing to fix actual issues...

Didnt even read the "On the in game item" part. I'd like screenshots too that seems entirely too odd >__>

Might simply be a glitch, Or it could Increase your automaton weapon-damage >_>?

[Anza]

maybe they threw it in as a sub to Animator +1 considering Einherjar is dead? believing Voidwatch might somehow be more viable.

Yeah, it seems like a pretty obvious sidegrade for people who missed the boat on Einherjar. Not necessarily a bad idea, more alternatives for items that come exclusively from content most people don't do anymore isn't a bad thing... but certainly nothing very exciting for people who already have the +1.

+1 still wins in situations where you care more about the automaton HP/MP stats than 2 more master DEX.

[Dfoley]

Honestly all of this update was side grade at best. Theres maybe 1 or 2 items total that arent side grades for all classes combined.

We get a 7 str helm incase we didnt get the right one from MKD
We get a 6 dex animator incase we missed odins
Theres a 7 % haste belt... that prevents you from being cured

[Kristal]

I'd rather use Cuauhtli's Headpiece, since it has STR+5 DEX+5 AGI+5.. although it's lacking H2H skill, which is rather odd considering the Cuauhtli's Harness Set as a whole has skill bonusses for all jobs' main weapons.. except H2H. Maybe it's there, but not shown in the text.

The Deluxe Animator most likely has undiscovered hidden effects. Animators don't have side-grades. It's peculiar that the Automaton:HP/MP bonus is missing on the new animator, considering the fact you can use it to break the Activate timer AND wipe your TP with ill-timed equip/unequip, but I suspect there's a good reason for it.

As for the haste belt, PUP can equip Twilight Belt, so no biggy. Also, I suspect the Accursed Belt has a little trick... (ie, immune to curse, doom, death and/or absorb) to offset the zombie status. (SE needs to make that an official status, rather then the ST20 Curse version!)

[Dfoley]

For SP yea 5 str/dex is > 7 str

As far as the animator, I am sorry but i dont buy that 'there has to be more hidden effects'. They just dont know that much about pup to correctly design anything. Look at the Animator + 1, you had to do that even ~10ish times to get 2 more dex and 10-40 hp? I mean really, does that seem on par with the other rewards?

[xiozen]

For SP yea 5 str/dex is > 7 str

As far as the animator, I am sorry but i don't buy that 'there has to be more hidden effects'. They just dont know that much about pup to correctly design anything. Look at the Animator + 1, you had to do that even ~10ish times to get 2 more dex and 10-40 hp? I mean really, does that seem on par with the other rewards?

Animator +1 significantly raises the automaton's response times--and--works with the Tactical Processor... so having both equipped will increase your automaton's performance over the Turbo Animator and Animator respectively. Unless the Deluxe Animator offers more over the +1 version, I, personally, won't be going after it.... considering the description of the item, I find it very difficult to believe that the Deluxe Animator will be better than the +1 version... (or it could be because I don't want it to be, considering the amount of work and effort I put into getting the blasted thing)... since SE said "An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model." in the item's description... using the words "standard model" interprets into better than the "Animator"... but not the Turbo and certainly not the +1 version.

Sorry but that's just my two-cents worth.

[Dfoley]

Animator +1 significantly raises the automaton's response times--and--works with the Tactical Processor... so having both equipped will increase your automaton's performance over the Turbo Animator and Animator respectively. Unless the Deluxe Animator offers more over the +1 version, I, personally, won't be going after it.... considering the description of the item, I find it very difficult to believe that the Deluxe Animator will be better than the +1 version... (or it could be because I don't want it to be, considering the amount of work and effort I put into getting the blasted thing)... since SE said "An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model." in the item's description... using the words "standard model" interprets into better than the "Animator"... but not the Turbo and certainly not the +1 version.

Sorry but that's just my two-cents worth.

I am sorry but go troll else where...you obviouslly have no clue about animators and the fact that the animator +1 has been shown time and again to do nothing.

If you have proof that it does anything to responce time or tactical processor, id love to see the photos/parses/logs or any shred of proof.

Edit:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1213-Duration-of-Maneuvers-New-Animators!
I new we had this argument before, you are the same person who claimed it did something last time and never backed it up with any description or shred of proof. In my book you just went down to the bottom peg...

Animator:
This device transmits commands to an automaton via high frequency waves.

Turbo Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Transmits commands at a faster rate than the standard model.

Animator +1:
An improved version of the animator. Allows orders to be more directly relayed to the automaton.

Deluxe Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model

To me they all say the exact same thing... an improved version of the standard model...aka they add dex / hp&mp. IF anything the deluxe animator implies a reduced overload rate since more simple commands are less likely to overload the pet, but thats a stretch and will require testing.

None of the animators adjust maneuver recast time or maneuver duration

[Gael]

Actualy some tests on BG (posted by Jkun on 2004/6, not sure of the exact years but i saw the post a week ago so you can find it if you want) show that there is no boost in the automaton's response times on the animator +1, so like Dfoley, if you have any proof, i want to see them.

[xiozen]

I am sorry but go troll else where...you obviouslly have no clue about animators and the fact that the animator +1 has been shown time and again to do nothing.

If you have proof that it does anything to responce time or tactical processor, id love to see the photos/parses/logs or any shred of proof.

Edit:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1213-Duration-of-Maneuvers-New-Animators!
I new we had this argument before, you are the same person who claimed it did something last time and never backed it up with any description or shred of proof. In my book you just went down to the bottom peg...

Animator:
This device transmits commands to an automaton via high frequency waves.

Turbo Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Transmits commands at a faster rate than the standard model.

Animator +1:
An improved version of the animator. Allows orders to be more directly relayed to the automaton.

Deluxe Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model

To me they all say the exact same thing... an improved version of the standard model...aka they add dex / hp&mp. IF anything the deluxe animator implies a reduced overload rate since more simple commands are less likely to overload the pet, but thats a stretch and will require testing.

None of the animators adjust maneuver recast time or maneuver duration

I don't troll... never have, never will. Only stating the facts. It appears that you are so out of touch with this job that you can't tell the difference between animators and your automaton's performance.. are you sure you didn't buy your account or something? Perhaps a change in careers is something that you'd benefit from... dunno... i'm just say'in.

[Karbuncle]

I don't troll... never have, never will. Only stating the facts. It appears that you are so out of touch with this job that you can't tell the difference between animators and your automaton's performance.. are you sure you didn't buy your account or something? Perhaps a change in careers is something that you'd benefit from... dunno... i'm just say'in.

No you are not. You are stating opinions.

I'm sorry, but Facts require proof, Facts require evidence, and data, You presented none. This is why the guy you are arguing with is well, arguing to begin with.

You are allowed to voice your opinion, but don't act like we all bought our account for believing the parses and data on it, while you provide no evidence to the contrary, and in one thread quoted, refused to provide evidence on the grounds "Its an Opinion", and in here, state "its a fact", Contradicting yourself.

PUP isn't a religion, you can't come here and state something, and expect everyone to blindly follow you on faith alone, we simply need evidence to support your statement, something to show you're simply not blowing hot air.

Especially when tests done have shown no effect from Animators outside of the hidden boosts to your own stats and your automatons HP/MP.

So, If you truly think you are right, Simple go parse yourself on the things you believe are changed. If you think he uses Attachment Abilities quicker, Test the "Cool down" Time on them. (I.E, See if "Strobe" Provoke is reduced to ~25sec instead of 30, or see if "Flashbulb" is reduced to 30 instead of 45, Etc.)

All you really need to do is a series of simple basic tests.

[Glamdring]

There's alot of "facts" on the boards as a whole that are simply someone's opinion based on personal observation... or even worse an opinion based on other's observations. There's actually a thread right now talking about how paladin always sucked as a tank; if that's the case why did everyone go for 7 years looking for paladin OR ninja (and war at low levels) to tank when building parties? Strange how "always" is never longer than the last 3 months.

AANNYYWWAAYY... The guy who said there's probably some other hidden effect on this thing-we hope there is, but there's nothing to back up that hope. We base it on the +1 does more than we so far know about this. If it is a sidegrade to the +1 it should do more to be a legitimate comparable item, don't mean it is. Having only the turbo I'll probably get this item because for me it is an upgrade.

As to the opinion about the Animators, response times, tactical processor and the like. Some people have done some testing, but how reliable are their tests? Do we know their raw data? Their methodology? What effect random elements in the game have on performance? Face it, we've all gotten our asses handed to us at 1 time or another in a fight our level/skill/build shows we should have won; random, extraneous factors do have an effect. So, I take it all with a grain of salt. The only thing to take for sure is a straight, unequivocal statement from a developer that "x does this", everything else is at best a probably.

[xbobx]

"PUP isn't a religion"

Why did you have to destroy everything I believe in. One sentence did so much harm.

[Karbuncle]

There's alot of "facts" on the boards as a whole that are simply someone's opinion based on personal observation... or even worse an opinion based on other's observations. There's actually a thread right now talking about how paladin always sucked as a tank; if that's the case why did everyone go for 7 years looking for paladin OR ninja (and war at low levels) to tank when building parties? Strange how "always" is never longer than the last 3 months.

AANNYYWWAAYY... The guy who said there's probably some other hidden effect on this thing-we hope there is, but there's nothing to back up that hope. We base it on the +1 does more than we so far know about this. If it is a sidegrade to the +1 it should do more to be a legitimate comparable item, don't mean it is. Having only the turbo I'll probably get this item because for me it is an upgrade.

As to the opinion about the Animators, response times, tactical processor and the like. Some people have done some testing, but how reliable are their tests? Do we know their raw data? Their methodology? What effect random elements in the game have on performance? Face it, we've all gotten our asses handed to us at 1 time or another in a fight our level/skill/build shows we should have won; random, extraneous factors do have an effect. So, I take it all with a grain of salt. The only thing to take for sure is a straight, unequivocal statement from a developer that "x does this", everything else is at best a probably.

Its all about the Context of his post.

This is why i responded to him. He accused someone of being an Account buyer for believing old tests, while providing no evidence. If he had come and said "Hey, I Think they do more than we know, i can't prove it, But it feels like it" instead of basically saying "You're all idiots and account buyers for not knowing this 100% Fact i can't provide evidence for" I would not have asked for proof, because it is most clearly an opinion that warrants further testing (Of which i plan to do when i get mine)

I trust tests from 2005 BG more than i trust someone saying "it just works cause i say so, You guys are account buyers if you can't see that".

I won't say the old tests are 100% Accurate, but they provide at least data/tests to the best ability of the people who attempted to verify and tests these things. He has not.

I'm not saying it would be amazing if there were actual differences in "performance" based on the Animator, I only ask that if he's going to come here, call us idiots/account buyers for "not knowing", that he simply provide proof for such a Bold claim.

I do not see this as an unreasonable expectation of people.

If you however feel the tests done so long ago are inaccurate (which they may be), I will gladly accept tests from you as well regarding the matter. I know once i have obtained the Deluxe Animator, I will be running tests myself.

That way we'll know one way or the other, Or at least, I will. I'll probably test basic things, and then try moving to more advanced things.

Regardless, the Solution lies in further testing, not slanderous name calling, accusations, and "Faith".

[Glamdring]

nope, I wasn't arguing, simply stating that pretty much anything that doesn't come directly from a developer's mouth/keyboard is still opinion, or a possibly innaccurate test. The results might actually be "dead-on balls accurate", I didn't do them and don't see enough data to say 1 way or the other.

The point was that when you come down to it precious little of the "facts" out there about this game are facts, most are anecdotal opinions. I can state my opinion that my turbo animator-while an upgrade over the level 1-does nothing to improve my auto's speed, but I ask it not be taken as a fact. I didn't show any hard data, I did no objective, scientific testing, none of that, it is simply my observation that my auto seems to act and react at the same speed it always did. Opinion, not fact.

[Karbuncle]

nope, I wasn't arguing, simply stating that pretty much anything that doesn't come directly from a developer's mouth/keyboard is still opinion, or a possibly innaccurate test. The results might actually be "dead-on balls accurate", I didn't do them and don't see enough data to say 1 way or the other.

The point was that when you come down to it precious little of the "facts" out there about this game are facts, most are anecdotal opinions. I can state my opinion that my turbo animator-while an upgrade over the level 1-does nothing to improve my auto's speed, but I ask it not be taken as a fact. I didn't show any hard data, I did no objective, scientific testing, none of that, it is simply my observation that my auto seems to act and react at the same speed it always did. Opinion, not fact.

I edited it a few times, But yah. I agree that it needs more testing, However, Its how he "presented" his opinion that warranted my response.

[Dfoley]

I don't troll... never have, never will. Only stating the facts. It appears that you are so out of touch with this job that you can't tell the difference between animators and your automaton's performance.. are you sure you didn't buy your account or something? Perhaps a change in careers is something that you'd benefit from... dunno... i'm just say'in.

I agree with karb and glam... lets see some tests.

We asked in the last thread you stated this, and you never gave any example or testable piece of data.


If you claim there is a difference between them, I am fine with that, but clearly state it in a testable mannor.

AKA I think the responce time from animator > turbo > +1 > deluxe gets samller and smaller for X attachment:
IE economizer goes from 3 minute recast to 1 minute recase
Strobe recast time is reduced
Strobe adds more hate
Nukes do more damage/recast faster/lowers global recast
Deploying with wind manuevers up causes it to barrage after 5 seconds ->3 seconds

Give us something to test instead of calling your 'feelings' a 'known fact' and accusing us of buying accounts because we dont agree with your oppinion that you have failed in two threads and MULTIPLE POSTS to explain.

[Anza]

Trying to get past this silly discussion of "response times" (prove it does something or be quiet, I think the reasonable position is general knowledge to most PUPs: Animator descriptions are meaningless fluff text)...

Anyway, putting things back on track, I'd like to highlight that additional DEX+2 on the Deluxe Animator may or may not be giving you any benefit at all over Animator+1 (or even Turbo Animator). Possible DEX benefits:

1) WS mod
No H2H WS you're going to be using at high level has a DEX mod, so this isn't relevant to us.

2) Acc:
If you're not capped, 2DEX=1Acc. But in today's FFXI, you're probably capped on a lot of stuff. So maybe this benefits you in Voidwatch, some particularly difficult NMs, or maybe in some future content... but normal 75cap world content and stuff in Abyssea with Atma/Cruor buffs, you're probably getting no benefit here.

3) Crit rate:
Again, you might already be capped on dDEX (function of player DEX to mob AGI), especially in Abyssea with Razed Ruins and Cruor buffs, and with PUP's naturally high DEX (tied for 2nd among all jobs) to boot. I'm not sure whether/how the May updates have affected that cap though, so there's possibly more to this discussion (note that dDEX cap is NOT the same as overall crit rate cap and had its own cap in the past, it's just one component of overall crit rate, along with crit+ gear, merits, atma, Rogue's Roll, etc). If you AREN'T capped on dDEX, 2DEX might push you to a higher crit rate (between 0.25-1% crit rate per point of DEX depending on where on the dDEX exponential curve you are).

4) Overload rate:
Only mentioning this to be complete, and to note how much of a non-issue overloading on Thunder Maneuvers is. I think I have more DEX than my automaton naked (and once you have more DEX than the puppet adding even more adds nothing for overload purposes), and who's really spamming Thunder anyway? Plus, between Cirque body, AF gloves, and Buffoon's Collar, that's even less chance of overload. 2 DEX is not going to make any difference on this point.

CONCLUSION
If you're capped Acc and dDEX (a likely scenario in Abyssea with RR), DEX+2 does approximately nothing for you. Pet HP/MP on Animator+1 certainly wins in that case since at least it's something. If not capped Acc/dDEX, 2 more DEX will give you minor benefit that may be more useful than pet HP/MP.

Obviously, pet HP/MP also still wins for some specific purposes - automaton tanking, trying for max pet survivability, maybe it pushes you to a point where you can get one more nuke off before dropping below Aspir/Drain threshold, maybe you don't want to deactivate a mage puppet for whatever reason, any time you're using a mage puppet but not meleeing yourself, etc.

[xiozen]

Trying to get past this silly discussion of "response times" (prove it does something or be quiet, I think the reasonable position is general knowledge to most PUPs: Animator descriptions are meaningless fluff text)...

Anyway, putting things back on track, I'd like to highlight that additional DEX+2 on the Deluxe Animator may or may not be giving you any benefit at all over Animator+1 (or even Turbo Animator). Possible DEX benefits:

1) WS mod
No H2H WS you're going to be using at high level has a DEX mod, so this isn't relevant to us.

2) Acc:
If you're not capped, 2DEX=1Acc. But in today's FFXI, you're probably capped on a lot of stuff. So maybe this benefits you in Voidwatch, some particularly difficult NMs, or maybe in some future content... but normal 75cap world content and stuff in Abyssea with Atma/Cruor buffs, you're probably getting no benefit here.

3) Crit rate:
Again, you might already be capped on dDEX (function of player DEX to mob AGI), especially in Abyssea with Razed Ruins and Cruor buffs, and with PUP's naturally high DEX (tied for 2nd among all jobs) to boot. I'm not sure whether/how the May updates have affected that cap though, so there's possibly more to this discussion (note that dDEX cap is NOT the same as overall crit rate cap and had its own cap in the past, it's just one component of overall crit rate, along with crit+ gear, merits, atma, Rogue's Roll, etc). If you AREN'T capped on dDEX, 2DEX might push you to a higher crit rate (between 0.25-1% crit rate per point of DEX depending on where on the dDEX exponential curve you are).

4) Overload rate:
Only mentioning this to be complete, and to note how much of a non-issue overloading on Thunder Maneuvers is. I think I have more DEX than my automaton naked (and once you have more DEX than the puppet adding even more adds nothing for overload purposes), and who's really spamming Thunder anyway? Plus, between Cirque body, AF gloves, and Buffoon's Collar, that's even less chance of overload. 2 DEX is not going to make any difference on this point.

CONCLUSION
If you're capped Acc and dDEX (a likely scenario in Abyssea with RR), DEX+2 does approximately nothing for you. Pet HP/MP on Animator+1 certainly wins in that case since at least it's something. If not capped Acc/dDEX, 2 more DEX will give you minor benefit that may be more useful than pet HP/MP.

Obviously, pet HP/MP also still wins for some specific purposes - automaton tanking, trying for max pet survivability, maybe it pushes you to a point where you can get one more nuke off before dropping below Aspir/Drain threshold, maybe you don't want to deactivate a mage puppet for whatever reason, any time you're using a mage puppet but not meleeing yourself, etc.

First, Anza let me apologize for derailing your attempt however, someone at Bluegartr took the time to do exactly what I have not had time to do... (or desire for that matter)... if you folks can't experience this for yourself, i don't know what to say... nevertheless... follow the link over and read the post or google it yourself... the very nice gent, actually took screenshots and performed timestamped tests etc doing comparisons between turbo animator and animator +1... since I ALREADY experience this w/ my automaton this is not at all a surprise finding:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/52889-Animator-1

For those who choose not to believe this, somewhat scientific approach, to attempting to prove something which is very very difficult to prove under combat conditions... that's your issue. Enjoy the read... and hopefully SE doesn't nuke it. :)

The conclusions are lackluster at best since the Mana booster was attached... too bad it was focused on mage automatons instead of melee... however I strongly believe this also applies to all automatons--wish he'd focused on that as well. Perhaps similar tests performed on melee frames will provide more definitely conclusions regarding reaction times.

[xbobx]

I find when my puppet eats chocolate cream pie, he hits faster.

[Gael]

I agree with the fact that we need more tests but i dont understand your reply Xiozen (maybe because that english is not my language). When i read you, i understand something like "i was right, this link prove it".

Its true, at the beginning this guy thought that there was a difference between the animator +1 and the turbo animator (outsite the DEX and the hp/mp part), but if you read the end :
MYTH BUSTED.

Recast times aren't touched or improved with Animator+1

Like you said (and i agree), its too bad that its only on mage automaton instead on melee, but his conclusion doesnt go in your way

[Gael]

I asked to a friend with windower to do a quick test for me, probably not the best one but it confirms the fact that recast of ja are not touched with animator +1.

How we did the test :
- Naked with an animator +1, then naked with an animator (the one lev 1 cause he doesnt know where is his turbo animator)
- he used his automaton with the rng head and the mage body (as soon the mob hit a % that i dont know, the automaton stop to cast spells on it, and since it has the rng head, it stay away from it)
- The only attachment of the automaton was a Flashbulb.
- I was whm/war and i spamed voke every 2-3 minutes (not sure we needed to do it but i didnt want to see the mob go close enough to the automaton to be killed)

With the animator +1, we had a flash every 45 seconds :

http://premod-shdow.servhome.org/animator_hq.gif

With the animator, we had a flash every 45 seconds :

http://premod-shdow.servhome.org/animator_nq.gif

Note that we did 50 flash with each animator (i know it's low but we are buzy and it's kinda boring to do more test when you always have the same result), and each time we had the same result (+/- 1 second with both animators), the reason i only post 2 little pictures is because we are on SE's forum and i dont want to make him ban (we spoke a lot lol so i asked him to cut the picture to only see what we wanted to show) so i cant show a picture with his name, but the test is easy to confirm if you want and only cost you 10 k gils (to buy an animator); and because of the overload, which are common when you dont use buffoon collar, af hands and af body.

We also tested with the strobe instead the flashbulb and same recast time with animator/animator +1.
(btw its maybe because i almost never used it but the voke of the automaton is crazy... even if i build hate (dmg, flash, voke, warcry), after each voke of the automaton, it got the hate lol)


So no, the animator +1 Dont "significantly raises the automaton's response times". It does nothing on spell/ja recast time.

As soon he will find the turbo animator, we will do the same tests ;)

[Dfoley]

First, Anza let me apologize for derailing your attempt however, someone at Bluegartr took the time to do exactly what I have not had time to do... (or desire for that matter)... if you folks can't experience this for yourself, i don't know what to say... nevertheless... follow the link over and read the post or google it yourself... the very nice gent, actually took screenshots and performed timestamped tests etc doing comparisons between turbo animator and animator +1... since I ALREADY experience this w/ my automaton this is not at all a surprise finding:

http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/52889-Animator-1

For those who choose not to believe this, somewhat scientific approach, to attempting to prove something which is very very difficult to prove under combat conditions... that's your issue. Enjoy the read... and hopefully SE doesn't nuke it. :)

The conclusions are lackluster at best since the Mana booster was attached... too bad it was focused on mage automatons instead of melee... however I strongly believe this also applies to all automatons--wish he'd focused on that as well. Perhaps similar tests performed on melee frames will provide more definitely conclusions regarding reaction times.

Did you even read it?

Your using a post that says there is no difference as your proof/evidence/testing that there is something different?

What part of
recast was the same as Animator+1 can possibly be turned into
'lack luster at best', when its obvious that it wasnt lackluster, it was non existant.

When I get time this weekend I will sit down will all 3 animators i own and run the gambit of tests:
spell recast
global recast
time between ja
time before ja/ws go off after applying maneuver
what %tp it uses a ws at with no maneuvers

[xiozen]

I asked to a friend with windower to do a quick test for me, probably not the best one but it confirms the fact that recast of ja are not touched with animator +1.

How we did the test :
- Naked with an animator +1, then naked with an animator (the one lev 1 cause he doesnt know where is his turbo animator)
- he used his automaton with the rng head and the mage body (as soon the mob hit a % that i dont know, the automaton stop to cast spells on it, and since it has the rng head, it stay away from it)
- The only attachment of the automaton was a Flashbulb.
- I was whm/war and i spamed voke every 2-3 minutes (not sure we needed to do it but i didnt want to see the mob go close enough to the automaton to be killed)

With the animator +1, we had a flash every 45 seconds :

http://premod-shdow.servhome.org/animator_hq.gif

With the animator, we had a flash every 45 seconds :

http://premod-shdow.servhome.org/animator_nq.gif

Note that we did 50 flash with each animator (i know it's low but we are buzy and it's kinda boring to do more test when you always have the same result), and each time we had the same result (+/- 1 second with both animators), the reason i only post 2 little pictures is because we are on SE's forum and i dont want to make him ban (we spoke a lot lol so i asked him to cut the picture to only see what we wanted to show) so i cant show a picture with his name, but the test is easy to confirm if you want and only cost you 10 k gils (to buy an animator); and because of the overload, which are common when you dont use buffoon collar, af hands and af body.

We also tested with the strobe instead the flashbulb and same recast time with animator/animator +1.
(btw its maybe because i almost never used it but the voke of the automaton is crazy... even if i build hate (dmg, flash, voke, warcry), after each voke of the automaton, it got the hate lol)


So no, the animator +1 Dont "significantly raises the automaton's response times". It does nothing on spell/ja recast time.

As soon he will find the turbo animator, we will do the same tests ;)

Thanks Gael--but you said "It does nothing on spell/ja recast time."... I'm inclined to agree with you on this... I don't believe I ever said the animator(s) impacted spell recast time or job ability recast times (timers)... I'm referring to "reaction time".

When I get some free time, which probably won't be anytime soon, i'll try the same type of tests performed using multiple frames/head etc in an attempt to "show" how the different animator tiers actually lessen the automaton's reaction time, depending upon combat conditions and circumstances. I believe everyone is confused about this; thinking that lesser recast times are the only way to see an improvement in the automaton's performance. Folks should trying thinking less about "Cure VI's spamming faster" based on a smaller recast time and gauging how rapidly the automaton "reacts" given certain conditions... that is the basis of this never-ending argument.

[Dfoley]

Look Xiozen, I appreciate you trying to save face, but eventually you will have to bow out and admit you are full of it.

You make claims and oppinions and state them as fact, with no proof and then call people account buyers for not noticing the same thing as you.

When asked for proof, examples, or anything you quote a post which actually confirms what everyone else is saying, that they notice no difference, and then try to spin it as 'lack luster results'.

I will make this dirt easy for you...
I will do all of the testing for you so I dont have to rely on you having time to do it. You set out a list of things you think its helping, and I will test it with all 3 animators I own (no deluxe )



You claim:

responce time
stacks with tactical processor
Be as specific as youd like:

EG: Casts cure within 1 second of applying light maneuver vs the 5 seconds it takes on regular animator
WS within 1, 2 , 3 seconds of applying maneuver
WS within 1, 2, 3 attack rounds of reaching 100% tp

[Alhanelem]

and does not give any sort of regain to master or pet.Neither does any other animator.

Man, you set your expectations WAAAAY too high.

Frankly, this really seems easier to get than the animator +1, so I'm not suprised that it's not really better. That said, there might still be something we don't know about the animators in general.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

Here's what I'm shocked by - since the Automaton is the PUP's unique weapon, and everything has gotten tossed into the Magian trials, why wasn't a Magian animator path created? It seems to me that this would've been something they'd do at this point.

[Dfoley]

Well surprise surprise, xiozen backed out again and failed to provide anything so I went ahead and tested myself.

results:
tp at which it ws's with no maneuvers:


all animators ranged from ~100-143, no real pattern or trend on any of the 3
on a side note, i wasnt able to test 'time after applying a maneuver until WS' so maybe some other day


Time between applying maneuver and JA triggering (barrage, economizer, shock absorber):


No difference between any animator.
Barrage/economizer seemed to fire between 0~10 seconds regardless of animator used
shock absorber... i really dont know it was way to inconsistent

I havent had time to test tactical processor to find out definitively what it does, so I cant say any animator does/doesnt stack with something no one has made a concrete claim on what it does.

[Drhatchet]

Shock Absorber won't fire if the auto still has the stoneskin up. Might have caused the inconsistency depending on how you went about testing it.

[Xanaduu]

was reading while tired but, could the animators effect the time it takes to actually use the automatons JAs after its activated? or is it all still 3 mins after activate? prolly a silly question but tired me had to ask XD

[Dfoley]

its still 3 minutes for stuff like barrage.

Tested on animator, turbo and +1.

[Xanaduu]

ah cool, i never really noticed a diffrence in any of them myself, was 2 busy having fun w/ the job >:3

[Lazus]

ah cool, i never really noticed a diffrence in any of them myself, was 2 busy having fun w/ the job >:3

How dare you have fun in FFXI instead of finding stuff to crab about and complain about every other job does something better then you.:O *sarcasm*

[Alhanelem]

ah cool, i never really noticed a diffrence in any of them myself, was 2 busy having fun w/ the job >:3
Animator +1 boosts the base HP/MP of all frames. it's extremely good if you can get itt, but it's kinda hard to do einherjar these days.

[Xanaduu]

nah i got the +1, just meant the performance

[Babekeke]

Has the OP (or anyone else with deluxe) actually tried to trade it to the magian trials NPCs? 2 people so far have said along the lines of 'I wish they let us upgrade animator with magian'. Much easier test to do than checking recasts/reaction times too.

[Alhanelem]

There were no new magian trials other than the NPC level limit breaks. There's no point in trying to trade it- no trials exist.

[Dfoley]

believe me, they would have announced that and been so proud that they finally gave pups 1 of the things they have been asking for.

[Babekeke]

Guess I just like to think that SE don't give us everything on a plate, that there's still new quests/trials out there for us to stumble across.

[Alhanelem]

Guess I just like to think that SE don't give us everything on a plate, that there's still new quests/trials out there for us to stumble across.
Data mining tells us all this stuff in advance.

[Babekeke]

Data mining tells us all this stuff in advance.

Bah, way to take all of the fun out of the game.

[Alhanelem]

So you're saying it would be more fun futily trying to trade something to an NPC to have it do nothing?

[Karbuncle]

Out of curiosity i just thought of something to test. the Automatons Reaction speed when using Shield bash.

I noticed Shield bash will sometimes hit and stun something like 1-2 Seconds after a mob readies a TP move, successfully stunning it, sometimes it waits like 3-4 Seconds, sometimes like 4-5.

The "Reaction time" for Shield bash seems wonky, Perhaps It may make him use it quicker?

This is just a shot in the dark.

[Jar]

a shot in the dark.

good song good song :D

[Robmelee]

I am sorry but go troll else where...you obviouslly have no clue about animators and the fact that the animator +1 has been shown time and again to do nothing.

If you have proof that it does anything to responce time or tactical processor, id love to see the photos/parses/logs or any shred of proof.

Edit:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1213-Duration-of-Maneuvers-New-Animators!
I new we had this argument before, you are the same person who claimed it did something last time and never backed it up with any description or shred of proof. In my book you just went down to the bottom peg...

Animator:
This device transmits commands to an automaton via high frequency waves.

Turbo Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Transmits commands at a faster rate than the standard model.

Animator +1:
An improved version of the animator. Allows orders to be more directly relayed to the automaton.

Deluxe Animator:
An improved version of the animator. Boasts vastly simplified operation over the standard model

To me they all say the exact same thing... an improved version of the standard model...aka they add dex / hp&mp. IF anything the deluxe animator implies a reduced overload rate since more simple commands are less likely to overload the pet, but thats a stretch and will require testing.

None of the animators adjust maneuver recast time or maneuver duration

Most likely Animator +1 is probably the best based on provable known data at this time.

Nevertheless the Deluxe Animator might have another hidden effect, in addition to the confirmed hidden effect DEX+6 (Master), all though this requires testing and this may be something that can never be truly confirmed but forever speculated, I'm inclined to agree that the other additional effect is "Significantly Reduces Overload rate" As we already know all of the known Overload reduction rate pieces takes -5 points off the Overload possible threshold. I think this Deluxe Animator secretly and significantly reduces that. Just off general game play with it I do so many maneuvers on a consistent basis I never overload, and since I got this Animator it has yet to Overload no jokes. Coming from the Turbo Animator, I had the Buffoon's Collar, AF1 gloves, and the Heat-sink attachment equipped with a water maneuver up!; and I would still occasionally overload, and from to time, back to back. Since getting the Deluxe Animator as of over a week ago, I have yet to Overload, no BS! I am either incredibly lucky or this animator secretly significantly reduces overload rate. Tell me what you all think, you think my opinion holds any possible merit? Does anyone else experiences the same scenarios or suspects the same possibility?

Following is pasted directly from...... http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Deluxe_Animator?


Deluxe animator [Rare] [Exclusive]
All Races
An improved version of the animator.
Boasts vastly simplified operation
over the standard model.
Lv. 87 PUP


Animator

Allows the use of Maneuvers when using an Automaton.
Does not affect the recast time of Maneuvers.


Hidden Effect

DEX+6 (Master)

Reduces "Overload" rate - Unconfirmed! Pure Speculation at this point! (Not in original link!)

I could be wrong on all this, Animator +1 is still without doubt a great animator just for the simple fact of all the HP/MP bonuses the automaton gets in addition the master getting DEX+4, but I am having a hard time accepting for all time that Deluxe Animator only offers another +2 DEX to the Master, end of story. Its gotta be Reduce Overload too. Why else would SE make this a Voidwatch item and hard to get on top of that, if it was complete crap and worthless??? I am done ranting now.

Now what you all think?

[Siviard]

Nice Necrobump there.


wait....I just did the same thing didn't I? BLARGH!!!