Chloris - Really SE

[xbobx]

Come on, why do you have to do things like this, do you not think?

a rediculous amount of triggers needed to pop him, fix that.

[Ihnako]

I can live with the amount of triggers needed. But what I'm concerned about is that we got 3 ??? to spawn Chloris but one keyitem is a timed pop sieged by nearly the half zone (and on Odin primetime that are round about 50-70 people just doing this). Same goes for every other NM to name one Gukumaz in Misareaux.

[Kwate]

Glavoid is pretty bad as well.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I have a chloris I dont' need, you want it? lol

[CapnSavaHoe]

I can live with the amount of triggers needed. But what I'm concerned about is that we got 3 ??? to spawn Chloris but one keyitem is a timed pop sieged by nearly the half zone (and on Odin primetime that are round about 50-70 people just doing this). Same goes for every other NM to name one Gukumaz in Misareaux.

Max out your lights and just pull the Couerl by bunches and whoop on them. The chloris KI drop at a pretty decent rate. In about 2-3hrs we had 5 sets last time I did that NM.

[Malacite]

4 KI is rather annoying compared to the others, but at least the majority of them are forced spawns. Plus it's a Visions area, so they're not terribly difficult either.

Worst case scenario you get a large group together and go cap amber & azure then cleave the bejeezus out of the mandragora. It's not ideal but it's better than doing nothing, waiting around for SE to fix the situation for you.

[Niyariko]

For the same amount of work on completing the chloris trial, anyone could have completed 2 katana Trial, or even 3 Great Katana trials. This isn't balanced at all, SE. Is H2H really that overpower, it requires 3 times the work comparing to some other trials!?

[Malacite]

Well, WAR & MNK are the top two damage dealers for good reason. Ukko's Fury and Victory Smite are both incredibly powerful on their own, more so when combined with the Aftermath (and especially WAR's +2 Set Bonus). But it does still seem a tad unbalanced to have to gather 4 KI's.

I would like SE to address this, but I wouldn't just sit around waiting for SE to do something about it either. Case in point, I've seen quite a lot of Ukonvasara and Verethragna on Bismark.

[Kristal]

Chukwa isn't as camped as you think, but it can get busy at times. The number of NMs you have to kill with a red weakness to get a single Chloris pop is excessive indeed (8!), and farming amber for chest KI farming is time-consuming due to the rarity of amber light mobs in the zone. (Allowing amber on bats would make a WORLD of difference, for instance.)

Incidentally, I'm on Bismarck as well, so if anyone wants to trade my Glavoid pop for a Chloris pop, give me call ingame (Kristal).

[Miiyo]

i soloed most of the pop items on my blm. there was only 3 zones released when aby came out. if they didn't do this, it would've been much easier to access the nm's with more of the coveted gear and people would've run out of things to do faster. Come on, do you not think?

[Nynja]

The number of NMs you have to kill with a red weakness to get a single Chloris pop is excessive indeed (8!)

yeahhhhhhhh, theres only 4 buddy. The remaining NM's can be killed without red, its just TH based for the secondary pop item.

[wish12oz]

The difficulty in obtaining Chloris pops is offset by the difficulty of obtaining Uluadshi and esspecially Dragua pops for the later trials. And by this I mean Uld is really easy, and Dragua can be done in a day, since only 2 KI exist in big gold boxes in altep, and one is dragua.
Suck it up.

[Leonlionheart]

The difficulty in obtaining Chloris pops is offset by the difficulty of obtaining Uluadshi and esspecially Dragua pops for the later trials. And by this I mean Uld is really easy, and Dragua can be done in a day, since only 2 KI exist in big gold boxes in altep, and one is dragua.
Suck it up.

Kannagi: Briareus: 3 KI each obtained from an NM that has 1 PI, then Sobek which is 3 KI 2 from PI 1 from time spawn
Verethragna: Chloris 4 KI 1 time spawn, then 3 PI NM, one needs 3 PI two of which come from NMs spawned by PI, the other two require 2 PI each having 1 coming from a NM spawned by a PI. Then Ulhuadshi is 1 PI 1 time spawn.

You can argue how much more powerful verethragna are, but how is this fair?

Some will say "FFFFF GUKU'S AERY" but that's only the case because of the ease of making Kannagi vs it's utility, making everyone and their mother want one.

The only thing that really offsets the difficulty difference is the fact that the other 2 empyreans from chloris are trash, where as almace is amazing.

Even then there are still people who want the scythe and polearm, so it's not a good argument.

The last defense of the "ITS FAIR" argument is Dragua Vs the other ones. It's true Dragua is the easiest, but in the end you can get unlucky and have it take longer than just buying Dhorme Khimaira's PI and raping Apademak (Which can be done with like 4 people if you don't suck.) Dragua can be done with 2, yes, but you can't get red for the KI to do it with 2 without wasting a time spawn NM.

[Nynja]

If you want to talk about weapon sets that get boned, you should look at GAX/Dagger (Glavoid/Itzpapa/Orthrus) or Bow/Club/Axe (Fistule/Bukhis/Alfard)

[Areola]

If you want to talk about weapon sets that get boned, you should look at GAX/Dagger (Glavoid/Itzpapa/Orthrus) or Bow/Club/Axe (Fistule/Bukhis/Alfard)

And Farsha's ws is worthless too.... Sorry just wanted to QQ real quick LOL.

[wish12oz]

The last defense of the "ITS FAIR" argument is Dragua Vs the other ones. It's true Dragua is the easiest, but in the end you can get unlucky and have it take longer than just buying Dhorme Khimaira's PI and raping Apademak (Which can be done with like 4 people if you don't suck.) Dragua can be done with 2, yes, but you can't get red for the KI to do it with 2 without wasting a time spawn NM.


I think the best part of your whole post is that you think you should fight the NM for the pop for Dragua, even after I said only 2 KIs come from big gold chests, one being Dragua. I thought this statement made it clear that you should just cataclysm burn for the pops, but I guess not. Let me explain this real quick: In every pull, you will get at least 1 Dragua pop if you cap amber. It's even funnier to me then the fact you think apademak and dragua aren't even part of the trials. You can leave all your empyreans at 85, but real players will up grade them all the way and believe that it matters. This is the point where katana gets hosed and h2h gets it easy, and at this point you need 75, not 50, so it actually matters more then the previous 2 trials since it's almost as long as both of them combined.

[Leonlionheart]

I think the best part of your whole post is that you think you should fight the NM for the pop for Dragua, even after I said only 2 KIs come from big gold chests, one being Dragua. I thought this statement made it clear that you should just cataclysm burn for the pops, but I guess not. Let me explain this real quick: In every pull, you will get at least 1 Dragua pop if you cap amber. It's even funnier to me then the fact you think apademak and dragua aren't even part of the trials. You can leave all your empyreans at 85, but real players will up grade them all the way and believe that it matters. This is the point where katana gets hosed and h2h gets it easy, and at this point you need 75, not 50, so it actually matters more then the previous 2 trials since it's almost as long as both of them combined.

I actually meant that you can still get unlucky even on gold chest drops. Either way it doesn't even get close to sanctioning the difficulty of Chloris since the difficulty of the fights are irrelevant. Chloris is a HUGE cockblock, and completely unbalanced as it's probably the hardest thing to farm in Abyssea by a huge amount, the only thing coming close is Glavoid. After that the difference between Glavoid and the other Empyreans (KKK, Briar, Cara, Fistule) is significant. Fistule is probably the next hardest since it's a time spawn, which can be annoying but without competition (and there usually isn't) it's much easier than farming for Glavoid (which has 2 time spawn NMs).

Either way the level 90 versions are a minimal upgrade that anyone can skimp by on honestly. Yeah you should go for them, but 80 and 85 matter much MUCH more.

[Nynja]

Chloris is hard? Did you really just say that? I can 2box chloris with my eyes closed, with the only real risk being a moody Doom.

[Ihnako]

Chloris is hard? Did you really just say that? I can 2box chloris with my eyes closed, with the only real risk being a moody Doom.
You missed to OP. Not Chloris is the topic. It's what you have to kill to get to the point to kill Chloris. ;p

[Dieth]

So I just completed a Chloris farm for an LS mates Vere.
We would normally FC for a bit and get a bunch of people 2/4 3/4 4/4, and then wander around to clean up the remaining NMs. Took about 4 farm runs (People were leveling other jobs during FC/Goldbox) each lasting 4-8 hours, and 4 spam chloris+otherNMs runs lasting about 3-6 hours.

approx~ 44 hours of time to get 50 buds

Meanwhile, on Masamune, we farmed and killed all the pops we needed in 2 runs of about 5 hours each, lets not even compare stage 2.

10 hours of time to get 50 gems.

So we have 4.4x more time needed for H2H or Polearm

But then it's Abyssea - Tahrongi, and everything sucks there, the whole zone and it's all it's pops need to be fixed.
Take the following as a suggestion of how to lessen the burden of farming Chloris

1. Remove Cannered Noz, and the Bat pops with just a Fang, add Mr Noz's drops to the Bat.
(Seriously if you were thinking this is a "Fun and enjoyable" experience when designing him, you only evoked, annoyance, hatred, and wanton urge to kill those responsible)
2. Remove the Shrivelled Wing & Tarnished Pincer, and just use the HQ items + Bloodshot eye. Let the HQs still pop the legacy NMs for people who want items from it, but they don't upgrade and you just lose the pop.
3. Remove Acidic Humus, keep Alkaline and Scorp claw as pop for Scorp NM, if Gac has any drops have him pop with Alkaline and it's lost you gotta get a new one if you want to do scorp.
4. Make 3 pops for EVERY pop able NM
5. Leave Chuck Norris Alone!

You've now removed about 3 hours of wasted time per Chloris pop, for the people who are diligently farming all NMs.
Congratulations!! now go fix the rest of the zone, because I really don't ever want to go back there again until I hear you've made an update such as that mentioned above.

[Louispv]

Eccentric eve is the same tier NM in Khonschatat. It has 5 pop items. And the freaking fight is harder. But it's pop item NM's are either time spawned or just pop from one item. Chloris pop item NM's are also popped with drops from other nm's. So Chloris has an entire extra layer of NM's.

I say just remove that lower tier entirely. Keep them in the game for their other drops, but don't have them drop anything for chloris pops. Then have the chloris pop NM's popped with items that drop off of normal monsters. Like every other zone!

[Alderin]

You whinge about Chloris (when yes it does indeed suck), yet you say the Katana is easy in comparison? Sure maybe til you get to the final leg. I would pick Dragua over Apademak anyday.

[Runespider]

Most that complain about certain emp trials just don't know wtf they are really doing, don't look at the next tiers etc.

They are all pretty much balanced, but Kannagi is a pig on the last trial. I much prefered doing vere over kannagi, far far far easier.

[Sarick]

Why not just double the +2 drops on NMs that need 4 KI's?

[sandman]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/1758-Balance-out-Empyrean-Weapon-Magian-Trials
Old topic, agree, disagree, SE doesn't care either way.
Apademak is quicker to pop then Dragua due to the fact you can buy his pop set. Dagger and G Axe are the two weapons that get boned hardest probably.

[Leonlionheart]

Eccentric eve is the same tier NM in Khonschatat. It has 5 pop items. And the freaking fight is harder. But it's pop item NM's are either time spawned or just pop from one item. Chloris pop item NM's are also popped with drops from other nm's. So Chloris has an entire extra layer of NM's.

I say just remove that lower tier entirely. Keep them in the game for their other drops, but don't have them drop anything for chloris pops. Then have the chloris pop NM's popped with items that drop off of normal monsters. Like every other zone!

EE is not the same tier NM as Chloris, it's the same tier as Lacovie or Hadhayosh. Kon's version of Chloris/glavoid/briar/cara is Fistule and Kukulkan.


Most that complain about certain emp trials just don't know wtf they are really doing, don't look at the next tiers etc.

They are all pretty much balanced, but Kannagi is a pig on the last trial. I much prefered doing vere over kannagi, far far far easier.

Most people that complain about Apademak have really sucky BLMs, or don't know how to stun long casting spells.

[Louispv]

EE is not the same tier NM as Chloris, it's the same tier as Lacovie or Hadhayosh. Kon's version of Chloris/glavoid/briar/cara is Fistule and Kukulkan.

No Kukulkhan is the zone boss like glavoid. (just like glavoid's item pops chloris, kukulkhan's pops eve.) Fistule is just up and about unpopped like lacovie.

The problem comes with gangly gean, and raskovnic (pops every 15 mins), and clingy claire (popped with an item off normal malboros) are easy to pop. For Chloris, ophanim is popped with 3 other drops, Treble Noctules, is popped with 2 other drops, and hedetet is spawned with yet another 2 drops. Chloris has another entire layer of pop items no other zone has.