Can the abyssea debate come to an end?

[Miiyo]

____________________________

[rog]

We really don't need a new thread every other day about how abyssea needs to be capped, do we?Every third day then?

[Sephyder]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head here with your post i think. I for one do not leech my jobs as my main way of leveling. I did leech NIN and plan to Leech THF and possibly lolWAR, but those jobs only to 50 because i only plan on using them as subjobs, or to run around in a dangerous area doing BS quests lol. BLU MNK and BLM i have been leveling mainly solo, still doing the (somewhat)Oldskool grind leveling, its just my preference. Beacuse those 3 are the jobs im going to be doing endgame events with and such.


I will say that i think that those who do leech (especially their first job to cap) need to take a break every now and then and learn to play the job properly. I asked a lv 80RDM to help with a quest not realizing they they leeched, to skip to the end of the scenario. i wound up dead cause he did not know how to cure me from an AOE and when i died he couldn't even raise me. that i think is just rediculous.

[Miiyo]

Every third day then?
Rog. I give you and only you permission to do so. I think that'd be an improvement.

[rog]

Deal.

12346790

[Akujima]

We really don't need a new thread every other day about how abyssea needs to be capped, do we?

Abyssea leeching is what it is. It's a way to eliminate being forced to grind. Some of you keep whining about how you wish for abyssea to be limited so that you can grind. What I'm registering is "wahhh, SE! No one wants to play the way I want them to. Please forcibly make them succumb to play I want them to play!" I don't understand this when you can go grind to your hearts content all by yourself. If it is a "problem" getting people to level in parties, a sensible person would perceive that the majority simply does not want to do original, party-style grinding for 90 levels.




And I applaud you on posting how proud you are of leeching 60 Levels.

Kind of hypocritical to assert that we're crying babies, when your entire post is practically the same thing, defending leeching as well as you can. And unless you've been living under a rock the past year, they have changed Leveling from 1~75 dramatically so it resembles nothing of the "old grind days".

And we're not crying because players like you want to sit around AFK and be spoon-fed EXP. We're saying that it destroys game content that was made for a reason. Content that will then eventually require MORE work for it to be recycled. You even say this in another thread, and I'll gladly quote you:


Also part of the... "example" you showed was this: [COLOR=red]"...a VAST and complex story, lots of areas to explore and quests to do, tons of jobs to play, etc."
Even pre-Abyssea alot of zones were not being used. It was basically a waste of memory and space. Space they're trying to recycle. Yes the world is vast. What does that matter if 60%+ of it isn't being used. What does it matter that it has a ton of quests to do if people have already done them and don't care to do them again? Did I mention your really did not pick a good example?


It matters because people aren't playing in Vana'diel anymore, they're playing in Abyssea. Creating expansion area's that make over 70% of the rest of the games content completely obsolete, is called poor game design and is very amateurish when it comes to creating MMORPG's. Poor game design, is what this post and my other thread boil down to.

And you describe the old world FFXI as if it was a horrific hell-hole, that appealed to nobody.

Im sure FFXI was such a terrible game in the past, as many people such as yourself have made it out to be. It was SO terrible in fact, people continued to pay their subscription fee, buy new expansions and enjoy meeting new friends. So why don't you just stop with the argument about how crappy things were in the past and how much better they are now, because we all know the first two sentences of this paragraph are blatant BS.

The truth of the matter, is that FFXI is tumbling downhill steadily. And at the bottom of that hill, is a steaming pile of rotting garbage ready and waiting with open arms, to cushion us softly from an otherwise devastating crash.

Well... A cushion to help lessen the blow is nice. But after all that's said and done, people will eventually realize that they've been wadding around up to their knees in stinking trash content, with more reasons to complain than ever before.


@Square-Enix: Raising the LvCap to 70 or 75 for Abyssea would prove in the end to be more beneficial, even if you think it would infuriate a portion of the player base. They'll get over it and realize it was for the better.

[svengalis]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head here with your post i think. I for one do not leech my jobs as my main way of leveling. I did leech NIN and plan to Leech THF and possibly lolWAR, but those jobs only to 50 because i only plan on using them as subjobs, or to run around in a dangerous area doing BS quests lol. BLU MNK and BLM i have been leveling mainly solo, still doing the (somewhat)Oldskool grind leveling, its just my preference. Beacuse those 3 are the jobs im going to be doing endgame events with and such.


I will say that i think that those who do leech (especially their first job to cap) need to take a break every now and then and learn to play the job properly. I asked a lv 80RDM to help with a quest not realizing they they leeched, to skip to the end of the scenario. i wound up dead cause he did not know how to cure me from an AOE and when i died he couldn't even raise me. that i think is just rediculous.
You spelled ridiculous wrong. On topic I agree with og post.

[Tamoa]

Akujima - has it ever occurred to you that you could just quit the game instead of making overly dramatic whiny posts about how terrible the game is now? Has it ever occurred to you that other people don't necessarily like the same things you like (or liked, rather) about the game? Has any of the old content been taken away, as in removed from the game? Is anyone telling you that you absolutely can't do Ballista/Einherjar/Limbus/sea/salvage/sky/oldfashioned exp parties?

I agree with the OP, some of you anti-abyssea people really do give the impression of being children throwing tantrums on the floor because you don't get your way.

[Akujima]

Akujima - has it ever occurred to you that you could just quit the game instead of making overly dramatic whiny posts about how terrible the game is now?

I think you want me to quit because my points are well thought out and spoken. Seems like I struck a chord with my Abyssea LvCap thread. If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't warrant over 100+ replies and various counter-threads.

[Netheos]

I'll keep it short & sweet. I have had the game since around 2004. I had all the content except the moogle story stuff / Abbyssea up until that new package came out this past week. I have been going into Abby since I bought it.

Before i had these expansions, I was pissed at the world. Pissed that people were able to obtain what could have taken me 2 years, in 2-3 days. Every time a LS mate would say, "Im going to leech!" I would get pissed and start to grind them about knowing their job and etc.

Now, that I have the expansions, I have had the chance to see what benefits Abby really has. It is such a weight off of the shoulders to not have to grind for months/years to reach maximum potential. I think the main key here is, if you do leech, be responible enough to go skill up and get where you are useful outside of Abby (or even inside). As long as the player maintains the character by skilling, buying their spells, etc then abby could have been the best thing to happen to this game.

All in all, there are people who will ruin this because they aren't going to skill up. But we can all make this for the best IF we take care of our own business.

Enjoy!~

[Kimble]

Mostly what ive gotten from you, is you seem to think you know whats best for everyone and how everyone should enjoy this game the same way you do.

[Tamoa]

@Akujima: I don't care one way or another if you quit or not, why would I? I just find it utterly astounding how some people will voice their opinion on how horrible FFXI is, as often and as loudly as they can - and yet they keep playing.



Mostly what ive gotten from you, is you seem to think you know whats best for everyone and how everyone should enjoy this game the same way you do.

This ^

[Zyeriis]

Akujima - has it ever occurred to you that you could just quit the game instead of making overly dramatic whiny posts about how terrible the game is now? Has it ever occurred to you that other people don't necessarily like the same things you like (or liked, rather) about the game? Has any of the old content been taken away, as in removed from the game? Is anyone telling you that you absolutely can't do Ballista/Einherjar/Limbus/sea/salvage/sky/oldfashioned exp parties?

I agree with the OP, some of you anti-abyssea people really do give the impression of being children throwing tantrums on the floor because you don't get your way.

I like how you asked that question then didn't put dynamis in that list...wonder why? Not that it has anything to do with raising level requirement for abyssea (which would be pointless, SE made it 30 for a reason). Also, has it ever occured to you that asking him to quit because he wants something different, is like telling you to quit because you want nothing different (also like telling everyone who played the game long enough to keep it alive long enough to get things changed in the first place, abyssea, to quit. Guess what they didn't do? Well, THEY whined about how difficult things were, and guess what? They got their whining answered.).

[Zyeriis]

@Akujima: I don't care one way or another if you quit or not, why would I? I just find it utterly astounding how some people will voice their opinion on how horrible FFXI is, as often and as loudly as they can - and yet they keep playing.

Because everyone who thought ffxi was "horrible" before didn't bitch and moan, often at that, instead of quitting. You know, abyssea never happened right? Right!?

[Tamoa]

I like how you asked that question then didn't put dynamis in that list...wonder why?

It should be pretty obvious why I didn't put dynamis in that list. It's not gone from the game, but been changed drastically.


Also, has it ever occured to you that asking him to quit because he wants something different, is like telling you to quit because you want nothing different

Lolno. I play because I enjoy the game. You can't find a single thread made by me on this forum, complaining about the stuff I'm unhappy with in FFXI. The OP has made enough loud threads/posts complaining about whatever he is unhappy with, up to the point where I'm seriously wondering why the hell he's still playing and paying. If I was THAT displeased with the game, I certainly wouldn't still be playing.


Because everyone who thought ffxi was "horrible" before didn't bitch and moan, often at that, instead of quitting. You know, abyssea never happened right? Right!?

Of course people bitched and moaned before abyssea too. However, there was no official forum then, filled to the brink with whiny threads about everything they found hard/unfair/boring/terrible about the game. And I thought the same thing then, about people that kept complaining about the game - "why the hell do you still play???".

[Dreamin]

To people that doesnt' want the leech-ability in Abyssea:

- you can stay out of Abyssea and do the old school grind if you like, SE has heard you and have given you many ways to obtain faster XP (and eliminate/limited the amount of XP lost). You know what, those Colibri camps are probably pretty wide open now, there's no more 5 groups trying to compete for 2 camp spots.

- don't invite those that leech their levels to event(s). The greatest aspect of an MMO is that there are many people who you can choose to do things with. Of course unless you don't have anyone to do anything with. In that case, you might want to save yourself the monthly charges and just buy a regular offlince RPG.

- don't invite people under your preferred lowest job level when you do decided to do Abyssea party (either for XP/Cruor/Items/KI/etc farming). If you're not sure who did or didn't leech their job, just do a simpler thing: kick those that isn't holding up their end of things (you can know this if they dont' have all their spells, or if their spell doesn't land when the mobs shouldn't resists, melees who can't land any hits, support jobs that doesnt' know how to cycle and keep up simple buff, etc). [Note: don't be surprised though if you ended up booting some people who in fact didn't leech their job to 90 - I dont know about anyone else but I've seen plenty of people who grind their way up and still perform the most basics job function of their job(s)].

Seriously though, is there any difference between someone who leech their way from 30-90 and didn't properly gear/get-spells/skillup and someone who grinded their way up to 90 and didn't properly gear/get-spells/skillup. Likewise, is there any difference between someone who does properly gear/get-spells/skillup their job regardless of how they got to 90???

I dont think anyone would agrue that for the most part, Abyssea is SE's easy mode answer to other MMOs out there. Just learned to deal with it, there are still challenges here and there if you know what and where to look for them if that's what you want to do.

[Miiyo]

And I applaud you on posting how proud you are of leeching 60 Levels.

I defend nothing. I did say, that if you pay your $13 dollars, you should be able to make the choice to leech or level whatever way you wish. You're the one wanting to force a cap on a zone so people can play more like you wish for them to play.
　
Kind of hypocritical to assert that we're crying babies, when your entire post is practically the same thing, defending leeching as well as you can. And unless you've been living under a rock the past year, they have changed Leveling from 1~75 dramatically so it resembles nothing of the "old grind days".
I whined because your post is about the 50th in the forum saying the same thing. "I want people to play the way I want them to play."
They added level sync. They added FOV. They added chests. They provided more exp per kill. You level a little faster but you're still grinding. Grinding is considered to be a company using exp as a means to extend a players subscription. It is called grinding because it is a drawn out unnecessesary experience that serves no special purpose, yet, you suck it up, "grind your teeth," and get it over with. Grinding is still here.

And we're not crying because players like you want to sit around AFK and be spoon-fed EXP. We're saying that it destroys game content that was made for a reason. Content that will then eventually require MORE work for it to be recycled. You even say this in another thread, and I'll gladly quote you:

There's CoP, RotZ, WoTG, and ToAU. They're all here. I haven't seen any destroyed content. They were not destroyed by faster leveling. People don't do them due to uninterest. People used to do them because of interest. It's not abyssea's fault people don't have the interest they used to. Again, these expansions were milked for all they were worth. It was time to move on.

It matters because people aren't playing in Vana'diel anymore, they're playing in Abyssea. Creating expansion area's that make over 70% of the rest of the games content completely obsolete, is called poor game design and is very amateurish when it comes to creating MMORPG's. Poor game design, is what this post and my other thread boil down to.
Why are you so obsessed with how everyone plays? Poor game design is not what most of the posts were about. I can go back and find 6 posts easily that blame Abyssea.
Abyssea did not cause the rest of the content to become obsolete. Endgame did. Endgame means limit or peak. This is the highest you can go. PreAbyssea endgame lasted quite awhile. Just like anything, it has it's limits for how long it will hold one's attention. Now, we could've stayed 75 and SE could kept adding more GEAR that trumped the previous set of gear, but it just makes more sense to level and become stronger and add those sets of gear. Rather than just let gear alone do it. That is the true reason everything else died. It was time to move on.

And you describe the old world FFXI as if it was a horrific hell-hole, that appealed to nobody.
...whatever? If that's how you wish to look at it, feel free. I liked the game, but I was ready for something other than what was considered endgame at the time.

Im sure FFXI was such a terrible game in the past, as many people such as yourself have made it out to be. It was SO terrible in fact, people continued to pay their subscription fee, buy new expansions and enjoy meeting new friends. So why don't you just stop with the argument about how crappy things were in the past and how much better they are now, because we all know the first two sentences of this paragraph are blatant BS.

The truth of the matter, is that FFXI is tumbling downhill steadily. And at the bottom of that hill, is a steaming pile of rotting garbage ready and waiting with open arms, to cushion us softly from an otherwise devastating crash.
Hmm. I'd say it's probablymore steady now than it's been in awhile. If anything, the downhill started when they let the previous endgame run so long. If you wish to lie in garbage, feel free to do it by yourself. I don't know why you feel everyone else will join you?
Yes, the game will come to an end eventually. Like all games will.

@Square-Enix: Raising the LvCap to 70 or 75 for Abyssea would prove in the end to be more beneficial, even if you think it would infuriate a portion of the player base. They'll get over it and realize it was for the better.

How will it be beneficial? How does it help the MAJORITY since the MAJORITY wishes to be in Abyssea?

[Sparthos]

It should be pretty obvious why I didn't put dynamis in that list. It's not gone from the game, but been changed drastically.



Lolno. I play because I enjoy the game. You can't find a single thread made by me on this forum, complaining about the stuff I'm unhappy with in FFXI. The OP has made enough loud threads/posts complaining about whatever he is unhappy with, up to the point where I'm seriously wondering why the hell he's still playing and paying. If I was THAT displeased with the game, I certainly wouldn't still be playing.

People will eventually quit because things are too easy, its already starting to happen. It's just way too easy to cap your relevant jobs granted you have competent players surrounding you and if you dont, just do Scars mobs for Heroes loot and Vision mobs for Scars loot.

Now I know that certain blocs of people are happy things have gotten easier because of their various circumstances but the reality is that making something too easy is just as bad as making something too hard like FFXI was in the past.

That's the part where I feel Akujima is 100% correct - the leeching will eventually be the downfall of the game as a whole. Make things too easy and the good players cap out and quit leaving you to deal with plenty of the lowest common denominator type players. A brain drain so to speak and harm to the game as a whole.

Your point about previous content being accessible is dishonest at worst, misleading at best. Things like Assault and old-fashioned EXP may be possible but good luck getting people to do them with you cause at the end of the day it comes down to loot/rewards and those events are sorely lacking in both so it's the Abyssea-way or the highway.

I certainly don't want the old-school FFXI back but you're deluding yourself if you think the current path of XI won't lead to what happened with "hardmode XI" - mass quits.

[Akujima]

Like Sparthos said in the post above, FFXI went from Hardmode+1 to Easymode+2.

I'm still playing because I have hopes that SE will finally figure out how to balance things and give us a game that is "Even Match" or "Seems Tough".


EDIT: I also had no problems with the so called "FFXI Hardmode".

[Miiyo]

I think you want me to quit because my points are well thought out and spoken. Seems like I struck a chord with my Abyssea LvCap thread. If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't warrant over 100+ replies and various counter-threads.

Your thread is a copy of the 5-10 before you that complained about people not playing as they wanted as well.

[Yarly]

There NEEDS to be pro/anti abyssea threads DAILY because each side measures their worth by their thread count. Fact.

[Ravenmore]

The old endgame was dying long before abyssea. Ethier people got everything they wanted and stop going or the LS leader got what they wanted and broke the LS. Those that didn't get what they wanted might not bother to join another LS for fear of the same thing happening again. I said it so many times before nothing in FF11 has ever been hard. You might say AV but when SE keeps changing the rules everytime what thought was the rite way to do it or was not aginst the ToS. Think they finally got tired of this and never did anything about the PD strat. It might have seem hard the first time you tried a mob or with a new group but once you get used to each other and the mob it becomes a matter of how fast you can kill it not if you can kill it.

[Tamoa]

Your point about previous content being accessible is dishonest at worst, misleading at best. Things like Assault and old-fashioned EXP may be possible but good luck getting people to do them with you cause at the end of the day it comes down to loot/rewards and those events are sorely lacking in both so it's the Abyssea-way or the highway.


Oh so I'm dishonest now, am I? Is the old content still there? Yes. Can people still do old content? Yes. I never once mentioned old content having relevant loot/reward. Actually, there are still some useful items to get from salvage/limbus/sea. And some people like doing those events just for fun.

I don't disagree with certain aspects of the game being too easy. But abyssea leeching isn't one of those things. In my opinion. That doesn't make me post on this forum trying to convince SE to get rid of all exp mobs above level 30 outside of abyssea.

[Ravenmore]

I still enjoy doing limbus. In fact my group of 6 can finish a omega pop in 2 runs with our last run netting 100 coins. If we get lucky with pods sometimes we can finish a omega pop and start another one. Salvage has been cut down from 6 to enter to 3. Telling me people can't find 2 other people that would do it with them. Dyna been changed so you don't have to drop 500k just to go in and try to get couple of AF2s, suck for relics though but with no longer need 500k to get a chance at af2 poeple would have stop helping to get relic any way.

[Sayelle]

I think you want me to quit because my points are well thought out and spoken. Seems like I struck a chord with my Abyssea LvCap thread. If that wasn't the case, it wouldn't warrant over 100+ replies and various counter-threads.

Facepalm.jpg

Actually there aren't enough facepalms to show how idiotic this statement is. Your posts are not well thought out, every argument that you bring up has been answered elsewhere on this forum and many of us are sick and tired of having to repeat ourselves but we keep trying because we don't want SE to get the idea that people like you are the majority in the game.

[Octaviane]

I had to take note of the fact that Miico said he/she couldn't get assistance to access Limbus, yet also stated that his now level 90 (I assume) BLM could outdamage 95% of other players (with atma of course) and how much he/she enjoys being with his LS friends. Are you saying you can't get your LS to help or that you can't solo Tenzen for Limbus access? I find that a bit hard to swallow, no offense. I am glad to see that there are a few things people would like help with.


Regardless, no matter which side of the fence you are on, when all is said and done, the days will wind down to a precious few. The Red sky of Abyssea will fade to black and the servers will shut down forever on an Epic game and we will all move on. Enjoy the moments, leech, grind, do whatever trips your trigger, most of all, have fun. :)

[Glamdring]

Let 'em leech! on the other hand, make it impossible to land ANYTHING with a skill-gap over 25 below the level 75 skill cap for that job. there, spread the offensive content equally.

[Aliekber]

Your posts are not well thought out, every argument that you bring up has been answered elsewhere on this forum and many of us are sick and tired of having to repeat ourselves but we keep trying because we don't want SE to get the idea that people like you are the majority in the game.


^ Sayelle has the right of it.

[Arlan]

Akujima - has it ever occurred to you that you could just quit the game instead of making overly dramatic whiny posts about how terrible the game is now? Has it ever occurred to you that other people don't necessarily like the same things you like (or liked, rather) about the game? Has any of the old content been taken away, as in removed from the game? Is anyone telling you that you absolutely can't do Ballista/Einherjar/Limbus/sea/salvage/sky/oldfashioned exp parties?

I agree with the OP, some of you anti-abyssea people really do give the impression of being children throwing tantrums on the floor because you don't get your way.

This Thread is actually pretty wise here.
I agree with what Tamoa is saying but most of all, I agree with the OP here as well.
People need to open their eyes more. This is an MMORPG video game, not Life.
We play the game the way we choose to and we do the things we mostly enjoy.

[Ramsos]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2171-Lower-The-Minimum-Level-Required-To-Enter-Abyssea-from-30-1

Its the only right answer.

[Sparthos]

Oh so I'm dishonest now, am I? Is the old content still there? Yes. Can people still do old content? Yes. I never once mentioned old content having relevant loot/reward. Actually, there are still some useful items to get from salvage/limbus/sea. And some people like doing those events just for fun.

I don't disagree with certain aspects of the game being too easy. But abyssea leeching isn't one of those things. In my opinion. That doesn't make me post on this forum trying to convince SE to get rid of all exp mobs above level 30 outside of abyssea.

People are not swayed by fun and in most cases it boils down to raw, unadulterated "what do i get from this?". Sad fact? Yes. Too many people choose to pretend the ideal is something other than the above.

The masses are swayed by loot.

I called your post dishonest because you're leaving out a huge component which is "how do I get people to do events they get nothing from?". Yeah, Assaults, Ashu Talif, BCNMs, Quests and Missions are available to do at any time but it's very hard to get people to do something when Abyssea has made it irrelevant. It's not an easy task by any measure, especially for content like Nyzul which need multiple repeats in order to succeed.

You're misleading people into a sense that they can simply log in, shout something like Garrison 50 and head out without any issues.

You'll basically need to find a good core of friends (difficult task) who are likeminded or simply shout and hope you find some people who are bored enough / willing enough to help you for nothing. Either way, it's far harder than simply stating "well the content is there" cause stuff like Garrison is there but that doesn't mean anyone is going to be jumping at the opportunity to do it.

It's likely SE will in the future attempt to repurpose these events like Dynamis but right now, its the Abyssea way or the highway.

[Akujima]

We play the game the way we choose to and we do the things we mostly enjoy.


Well, I enjoy doing Ballista and Brenner. But it's nearly impossible to find people to do those events with. Why do you think that is?

Should the minority suffer always? Is it right to have options that appease only the majority, while making the minority hide in the shadows? And when one of us has the guts to come out and say something about it, we just get shunned and ridiculed about how we don't fit in, because nothing of what we say has any importance, right?

I mean the Earth would still be flat, if there weren't people in the minority to speak out against what they strongly believe is truthful. We aren't going to go away just because you continue to shove us in the corner and expect us not to eventually speak up about it. In fact we'll most likely have better observations from seeing things on the outside, than just being lost in some ravenous shopping spree for equipment/gear.

Call me a nostalgic fanboy for enjoying classic Squaresoft/Square-Enix titles, if that makes you happy. And I did enjoy "oldschool FFXI" much more than the current version. But I will call you even more fanboy-ish, if you can't even take a step back to see how Square-Enix is botching their own games.

[wish12oz]

I got all the jobs leveled above 70 I wanted, let the noobs have their lvl 70+ onry entry limit I say!


Is it right to have options that appease only the majority

Yes.
This is one of the things the United States was founded on and believes in, you won't find much support here in the english forums.

[Akujima]

People are not swayed by fun and in most cases it boils down to raw, unadulterated "what do i get from this?". Sad fact? Yes. Too many people choose to pretend the ideal is something other than the above.

The masses are swayed by loot.

...

You're misleading people into a sense that they can simply log in, shout something like Garrison 50 and head out without any issues.


Are people reading this? Are the Dev's reading this? Excellent points like these are not to be skimmed over and taken lightly.


I'll play Ballista/Brenner to have fun, because my goal when playing a game is to have fun first. Equipment that I work towards is just secondary. But since it's hard to find people to do Ballista with you, because the {Reward:} = Fun, it would be misleading to say that Ballista or Brenner even exist as events now.

[wish12oz]

Are people reading this? Are the Dev's reading this? Excellent points like these are not to be skimmed over and taken lightly.

Did you just now figure this out?
That's the way every online game I have ever played has been, and I am sure SE knows this too, that's why they put rewards into every system they introduce.

[Tamoa]

I called your post dishonest because you're leaving out a huge component which is "how do I get people to do events they get nothing from?". Yeah, Assaults, Ashu Talif, BCNMs, Quests and Missions are available to do at any time but it's very hard to get people to do something when Abyssea has made it irrelevant.

If these events are irrelevant, why does anyone want to do them at all, including the anti-abyssea crowd?

[Akujima]

If these events are irrelevant, why does anyone want to do them at all, including the anti-abyssea crowd?

Because Ballista is fun, Nyzul Isle is fun and seeing new places and opening up new quests and interesting storylines is fun.

And the Dev teams hardwork for making all these fun, interesting scenario's shouldn't go to waste.

[Ramsos]

Because Ballista is fun, Nyzul Isle is fun and seeing new places and opening up new quests and interesting storylines is fun.

And the Dev teams hardwork for making all these fun, interesting scenario's shouldn't go to waste.

How does people leeching in abyssea have anything to do with ballista?

[Tamoa]

Well, I enjoy doing Ballista and Brenner. But it's nearly impossible to find people to do those events with. Why do you think that is?

Because the majority of FFXI players have absolutely no interest in it, that's why. It was never a very popular event, abyssea didn't have any impact on that.




I mean the Earth would still be flat, if there weren't people in the minority to speak out against what they strongly believe is truthful. We aren't going to go away just because you continue to shove us in the corner and expect us not to eventually speak up about it.

The earth is not flat, and that is a proven fact. You dislike how FFXI currently is, that is an opinion. Big difference there.


Because Ballista is fun, Nyzul Isle is fun and seeing new places and opening up new quests and interesting storylines is fun.

Again, that is only YOUR OPINION. Other people don't necessarily find those things fun, you know?

[Sayelle]

Because Ballista is fun, Nyzul Isle is fun and seeing new places and opening up new quests and interesting storylines is fun.

And the Dev teams hardwork for making all these fun, interesting scenario's shouldn't go to waste.

I did all of the old "fun" events until they weren't fun anymore, and most of the people how have played this game for more than a year have as well. Sometimes old content just needs to be put out to pasture, or reworked so that it stays rewarding like they did with dynamis.

[Glamdring]

Because Ballista is fun, Nyzul Isle is fun and seeing new places and opening up new quests and interesting storylines is fun.

And the Dev teams hardwork for making all these fun, interesting scenario's shouldn't go to waste.

u gots a HUGE point, game was around for 8 years before abyssea, and was more popular up until about 7 years ago. The problem wasn't that the game got bad (although the RMT crap had just about everyone ready to ragequit), just that most of the long-time players had finished anything they were interested in.

still, new people should realize, if this game was good enough to have us forking over $$ for 8 freaking years that there might just be stuff worth doing from that time. Try it, you might like it!

[Miiyo]

Should the minority suffer always?
Yes. This is a game to us, but a business to SE. You want to keep playing the game yet you can't understand that the majority rules? ...baka

[Zyeriis]

It should be pretty obvious why I didn't put dynamis in that list. It's not gone from the game, but been changed drastically.
And how does that fit into your "argument"?


Has any of the old content been taken away, as in removed from the game? Is anyone telling you that you absolutely can't do Ballista/Einherjar/Limbus/sea/salvage/sky/oldfashioned exp parties?
Yes? Point of quote and fact: Dynamis as it was, has been taken away, removed from the game and replaced with Dynabyssea. "It has different proc system though!" isn't an argument, it still has a proc system either way, resembling (near identical) to the one from Abyssea.



Of course people bitched and moaned before abyssea too. However, there was no official forum then, filled to the brink with whiny threads about everything they found hard/unfair/boring/terrible about the game. And I thought the same thing then, about people that kept complaining about the game - "why the hell do you still play???".
And thus was abyssea born. Spawned by the complaints of a minority. What's different now? That there's no proof of the complaints being of the "minority" or that it's toward the opposite direction? Pick your poison.



Again, that is only YOUR OPINION. Other people don't necessarily find those things fun, you know?
It's asinine to think that those things are not fun. People did them for years. Sure, SOME people got tired of it, and SOME people started whining. The only legitimate complaints were from people who completed everything (which took years). Now? Abyssea takes how long to complete? A month? Two? Disregarding that it's a completely boring event, which requires absolutely no effort, the time it takes to complete is pathetic. So, in such an easy environment where everything can be accomplished in such an idiotic amount of time, legitimate complaints to put things that take longer (and actually have substance) are going to arise (and have, just like they did for that small minority of legitimate complaints about having completed everything after years of effort).


If these events are irrelevant, why does anyone want to do them at all, including the anti-abyssea crowd?
People toss around words way too easily, without understanding their actual meaning. This is a prime example of that. The events are irrelevant, which is different from unenjoyable. Why are they irrelevant? The rewards aren't worth it anymore because something else, thats far far far easier to get came along and out-did those rewards.

The events don't need an update (looking at you dynamis), they need greater rewards because they are a greater challenge (even if you disagree that they were hard: when you compare them to abyssea, the difference is clear as day, one is ridiculols and gets you better gear, the other actually poses some sort of threat but has crap rewards by comparison).


Should the minority suffer always?
Yes, but....
Don't know where people get the idea that those who want content made relevant again by increasing the rewards is in the minority. Who's spreading this fabricated lie? It needs to stop.

[Tamoa]

@Zyeriis:

Dynamis hasn't been taken away, it's been changed. It still has the exact same rewards, plus some new ones if I'm not mistaken.

I never said irrelevant equals unenjoyable. The post I replied to there, actually said those events are irrelevant because they offer no loot/reward and that people won't do them simply because they are fun:


People are not swayed by fun and in most cases it boils down to raw, unadulterated "what do i get from this?". Sad fact? Yes. Too many people choose to pretend the ideal is something other than the above.

The masses are swayed by loot.

I called your post dishonest because you're leaving out a huge component which is "how do I get people to do events they get nothing from?". Yeah, Assaults, Ashu Talif, BCNMs, Quests and Missions are available to do at any time but it's very hard to get people to do something when Abyssea has made it irrelevant.




It's asinine to think that those things are not fun.

Oh I see, you get to decide what is ok for me and others to find fun in this game then?

[Zyeriis]

@Zyeriis:

Dynamis hasn't been taken away, it's been changed. It still has the exact same rewards, plus some new ones if I'm not mistaken.
That's called being taken away, it is in no way the same as it was before, barring of course the setting and rewards. Rewards =/= content.


The post I replied to there, actually said those events are irrelevant because they offer no loot/reward and that people won't do them simply because they are fun
Exactly?



Oh I see, you get to decide what is ok for me and others to find fun in this game then?
Well seeing as how thats exactly what you're doing, yes.

[Tamoa]

Well seeing as how thats exactly what you're doing, yes.

Where the hell did I say "you're asinine for enjoying that event" or "you're asinine for not enjoying this event", or anything remotely similar, implying that I think other people's idea of fun is stupid?

I have said 2 things: One being the way some people carry on and on and on and on about how much they dislike the game now, makes me wonder why they are still playing.

The other thing I have pointed out, is that there is absolutely nothing stopping you or anybody else from doing old content. You just have to find a few people interested in doing the same events, or ask some friends to help with stuff that isn't soloable. You will either find people who want to do that event because they think it's fun, or they want a possible reward from it (for completion or whatever). Shout, ask around, post in server section on this forum, post on BG, post on FFXIAH, etc etc.

I'm not 100% happy with everything in the game as it is now. Some things have been made just too easy, and there are certain events and such that I miss doing. But in my opinion the good still outweighs the bad, I still enjoy FFXI, and that is why I'm still playing. I'm not bitching and whining and trying to force my opinion of what's fun or not down people's throats though, or trying to make SE change the game into my liking, unlike others on this forum.