/seek Chat Mode- "LEVEL 32 PUP LOOKING FOR PARTY...ANYONE? PLEASE?"

[Selzak]

I think it would be extremely useful to have a unique chat mode that is exclusive to players who are currently Looking for Party. The chat could default to this mode when a player flags up and allow players to communicate (there should be separate channels so that players are grouped within level ranges) with everyone else who is looking for a group, regardless of zone. I'm thinking it would be best if this was separated into 10 level ranges, i.e. 10-19 chat, 20-29 chat, etc.

It would be like an array of pseudo-linkshells, and when you flag up you would automatically join the appropriate one. Not with a list players or anything, its only function would be for communication. Maybe the text could be a dull purple or something, so that it conveys a sense of 'background' communication while being distinct.

I think this would help a lot with people who are trying to join/create conventional parties. If you don't like seeing this chat channel when you flag up, you could have the option to turn it off- but it should default to on. Also, these channels should only be joined when a player chooses the green Experience Points flag after LFP.


Any thoughts on this? I'm sure there's a lot to be played around with concerning this idea, but the main point is to have an automatic, simple, and non-obstructive chat mode that provides a way (or maybe even an excuse) to communicate with the people in your level range who are seeking a party. It's essentially just starting the conversation in order to get people grouped together more quickly and readily; sort of a nudge.

[Jackastheripper]

This would be a great idea. It would be nice to get a little more info from people when they are flagged than the small amount you can put in your comment.

[Dekoda]

Yeah I like this. People hardly bother to read seacoms anyways =/ This, or the ability to seek on multiple jobs would be cool.

[Leonlionheart]

This would be pretty useless.

I can round up 5 other people in like 10 minutes (willing that the correct jobs are available) by just /sea all 20-30 invite

Assuming you're not dealing with complete noobs (pray that they have access to all areas) I don't see why anyone would need anything more than the information of their job, sub job, and level.

Now if you were able to /check people that were looking for party to be sure you weren't inviting any gimps, that would be something I would sign a petition for.

[Zyeriis]

This idea really is just global chat that you need to flag up to use. I can see a flag up, mentor status, or something along those lines activation to get into the global chat but there's a few problems with this.

For starters, chat "channels" can only accomodate so many people. This is why we are limited on how many people can be in a linkshell (at least one of the major reasons). Shout isn't a chat channel, it's an extended /say mode. Shout is AoE and is thus, not a "channel". So, for the same reasons as linkshells being limited, a global chat channel wouldn't be implemented.

I'm not against such a thing but I don't its possible from a technical standpoint, especially considering certain "limitations".

[Akujima]

I'm not against such a thing...


Well, I am against it. Because I'm a Lv31 WHM, and I want to leech/keywhore in Abyssea, but Port Jeuno is just too crowded and laggy for me. If they had a 10 Lv range limit, then I wouldn't be able to reach higher levels, so they can hear me beg to be a chest opener.

So if they had a chat channel with no level range, then I'm ok with that. And also while we're on topic... Why does Abyssea have to be Lv30 cap? They should just lower the limit to Lv1 and call it a day, don't you agree?

[Zyeriis]

Well, I am against it. Because I'm a Lv31 WHM, and I want to leech/keywhore in Abyssea, but Port Jeuno is just too crowded and laggy for me. If they had a 10 Lv range limit, then I wouldn't be able to reach higher levels, so they can hear me beg to be a chest opener.

So if they had a chat channel with no level range, then I'm ok with that. And also while we're on topic... Why does Abyssea have to be Lv30 cap? They should just lower the limit to Lv1 and call it a day, don't you agree?
...what? Why did you even quote me, to be sarcastic (poorly at that)? What does my post have to do with any of the things you said?

[Leonlionheart]

Well, I am against it. Because I'm a Lv31 WHM, and I want to leech/keywhore in Abyssea, but Port Jeuno is just too crowded and laggy for me. If they had a 10 Lv range limit, then I wouldn't be able to reach higher levels, so they can hear me beg to be a chest opener.

So if they had a chat channel with no level range, then I'm ok with that. And also while we're on topic... Why does Abyssea have to be Lv30 cap? They should just lower the limit to Lv1 and call it a day, don't you agree?

Sarcasm I think.

Make your own video game if you are so displeased with how the dev. team is handling FFXI. They make the game, we play it. There's only so much feedback SE can take from people who have no experience in video game design of any sort.

On topic congruent with that post: No, those ideas are piss-poor. The starter level for Abyssea should be 75, because level 30~75 really don't have anything to offer inside abyssea.

[Panthera]

there should be separate channels so that players are grouped within level ranges

you could have the option to turn it off- but it should default to on. Also, these channels should only be joined when a player chooses the green Experience Points flag after LFP.
...It's essentially just starting the conversation in order to get people grouped together more quickly and readily; sort of a nudge.

This is a very good idea, and one of the better written posts I've seen in a while. Well done.

There are a few technical features I'd shy away from though. First off, going to the channel automatically could cause problems. Just because you're seeking, doesn't mean you want experience points. As often as not, it's just used to let others around you know you need an invite, in the context of events. You might in fact want to be in a linkshell chat for other reasons.

Secondly, I'd shy away from grouping people into level ranges. If one is going to do traditional exp, one may be fine with syncing down from 65 to 55, or what have you. In this day and age, you're not likely to find 5 other people in your own range anyway.

This wouldn't have to be just for persons seeking traditional exp, but for anyone seeking any form of exp, duos, MMM, or Abyssea.

Also, there could be other channels as well. There could be one for missions and quests as well, one for crafting, etc.

[Leonlionheart]

Someone explain to me what more needs to be said than:

Job(level)/subjob(level) looking for party
experience points can I have it?
level sync OK/No, thank you.
(Insert additional credentials here)

And don't say that sometimes people don't read /seacom because that will still happen if this idea is implemented. You'll still flag up, and still get random /tells independent on whatever conversation is going on in this hypothetical 'channel'

[Akujima]

Someone explain to me what more needs to be said...

Because [Trade] Channel in WoW was the place to be.

[Selzak]

Someone explain to me what more needs to be said than:

Job(level)/subjob(level) looking for party
experience points can I have it?
level sync OK/No, thank you.
(Insert additional credentials here)

And don't say that sometimes people don't read /seacom because that will still happen if this idea is implemented. You'll still flag up, and still get random /tells independent on whatever conversation is going on in this hypothetical 'channel'
Like I said, this is essentially just a nudge. Nothing is really being added that couldn't be done by sending a /tell. There's certainly a level of convenience added, but that's not really the purpose. The actual outcome of having this type of chat would be that players who are seeking within the same level range are sort of "thrown into the pool" of communicating, instead of everyone just waiting around. This works under the assumption that guiding players into communication automatically will create parties, which I think is a correct one.

[Raxiaz]

I really like this idea, and I support the notion of adding additional channels for Missions, and Quests.

[Crica]

Each server handles a zone in FFXI.

WoW's servers are mostly all intertwined, that is why you don't "zone" in WoW every time you move into a new area like you do in FFXI.

The main times you need to "zone" in WoW is instanced dungeons/raids - all other times all of a land (such as Volbow in FFXI) are "zone" free.

WoW can have world chat because of this, whereas in FFXI, a world chat channel would be very heavy on server loads - or they would have to have a server dedicated to just world chat, such as the "server messages".

Either way, it would be very costly and take ALOT of programming.

[Selzak]

FFXI is not on servers like WoW.. each server handles a zone.

WoW's servers are all intertwined, that is why you don't "zone" in WoW every time you move into a new area like you do in FFXI.

WoW can have world chat because of this, whereas in FFXI, a world chat channel would be very heavy on server loads - or they would have to have a server dedicated to just world chat, such as the "server messages".

Either way, it would be very costly and take ALOT of programming.
Where do Linkshells fit into this, then? It would basically just be a set of invisible linkshells that you enter and exit automatically. If anything, I imagine the latter part might take some effort...but not so much that we should just forget about it with, "Oh, that takes effort sorry." like so many other ideas have been shot down.

[Crica]

Where do Linkshells fit into this, then? It would basically just be a set of invisible linkshells that you enter and exit automatically.

I would assume, like "server messages", Linkshell channel/Party channel/Whisper channel are all on a seperate server, or possibly the same server as "system messages" - which is what I was referring to when talking about "server loads".

[Selzak]

I would assume, like "server messages", Linkshell channel/Party channel/Whisper channel are all on a seperate server, or possibly the same server as "system messages" - which is what I was referring to when talking about "server loads".
Well if I can create a linkshell whenever I want, I don't see why this concept would be so difficult to handle in terms of cost. It could even be considered a linkshell if it needed to be.

[Crica]

Well if I can create a linkshell whenever I want, I don't see why this concept would be so difficult to handle in terms of cost. It could even be considered a linkshell if it needed to be.

Here is a quote from a Dev/Mod about this subject, maybe they can explain it better then I can.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7841-Server-wide-shouts?p=102818#post102818


Though we need to do some more testing, and we are not sure whether it would be possible yet, we are looking into the possibility of making/displaying shouts throughout multiple areas.

To be a bit more specific, we will be looking into grouping certain areas server side so that a shout from one of the areas in that group will be heard from each of the other areas.

For example:
If Ru’Lude Gardens/Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno were to be grouped together, making a shout in Ru’Lude would be heard in the other areas (Upper Jeuno/Lower Jeuno/Port Jeuno). However, this would ultimately quadruple the server load, so we will definitely need to pay close attention to this.

[Glamdring]

a similar item, but not used by many is the "Search comment" feature. You put your message in under a specific category, like XP, Mission, etc. There is a "search by" feature that allows you to select that comment class as the filter. This feature is used MUCH more often by Japanese players, but it is available to anyone. I prefer that to an actual chat mode that sounds like a specialized /shout, but that's because I don't like unsolicited content.

I used to be incensed by all the poeple who would consistently invite me to sync parties when my comment specifically said "no level sync". The comment was there because I was trying to close a WIDE skill gap (and it said that, too). A level appropriate party would let me work on skill, a sync would simply widen the gap I was trying to close. And I KNOW that the comment displayed when they clicked on my name in the search results before they sent the /tell because that's precisely what it is designed to do, and does when I perform searches! After apparently ignoring the the comment they then have the temerity to argue with me?!

No, I think a pop-up of "did you know" items, like this, that happens during the log-on process is the way to go. The feature already exists-in a very functional form-as is, people simply need to use it. A specialized chat feature is simply 1 more thing I'll need to filter out of my display.

[Selzak]

Here is a quote from a Dev/Mod about this subject, maybe they can explain it better then I can.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7841-Server-wide-shouts?p=102818#post102818
I think there's a difference between how /shout functions and the idea of having a bounded global chat. If there wasn't, then Linkshells couldn't exist (or party chat, for that matter).

[Romanova]

I see no need for this. You can put all that info in your search comment, and usually when I see people shouting begging for a party in jeuno, that makes me want to invite them even less.

People can see your flag, if they want to invite you, they'll invite you. If not, you can either wait, or make your own pt.

[Selzak]

As far as usefulness is concerned, the arguments against are sort of like saying, "I don't need to buy into this computer fad to get the news, I get the news fine by going to the store and buying a newspaper." This feature would open up additional information (maybe someone can use a different job, or maybe someone wants to create a party and another person doesn't- but they can ask a friend to fill the healer spot that's missing), but again, this is not the purpose of the feature. The real benefit of this is that players are automatically introduced into conversation with the players in their level range who are seeking. On the surface that doesn't mean anything, but anyone who's played the game for a decent amount of time can probably imagine how much this would influence those players to get a party created. The fact that it would also facilitate it is just an added bonus.

The example in the thread title is more of a joke than anything else, and not meant to illustrate the use of the feature. If anything, it highlights the subconscious need that we've had for it.

[Khiinroye]

There are not enough people lfg at low levels for this to have any noticeable effect. Also, most people would still just use it to shout into the channel "LV 32 pup lfg!" while the people who would proactively make a party would use the search function to find people without it anyways.

[Selzak]

There are not enough people lfg at low levels for this to have any noticeable effect. Also, most people would still just use it to shout into the channel "LV 32 pup lfg!" while the people who would proactively make a party would use the search function to find people without it anyways.
That's a legitimate disagreement. No one knows how it would work in the wild, but I believe that this feature would get people talking and that would have a huge impact on party formation.

Can't do anything more than agree to disagree about how it would pan out, though. I won't argue against legitimate points, only defending the idea against those who don't get the actual purpose of it.

[svengalis]

There is no point in a chat mode for party searching.

[Romanova]

are sort of like saying, "I don't need to buy into this computer fad to get the news, I get the news fine by going to the store and buying a newspaper."

Not really as one is slower than the other, whereas both options are fast, and the search function does exactly the same thing.


This feature would open up additional information (maybe someone can use a different job, or maybe someone wants to create a party and another person doesn't- but they can ask a friend to fill the healer spot that's missing),

Also can be done via shouts/lses. Not only that I'd imagine if you don't want to xp, then you'd have this filtered anyway. people arent going to want to listen to pages of "INVITE ME" unless they're actually forming a group, and then it's much easier to just use the search function.


The real benefit of this is that players are automatically introduced into conversation with the players in their level range who are seeking.

There is no such thing as "level range" with level sync. If you grouped people into the level ranges for those seeking, you might as well have them just talk in tells as there would be so few in the channel.


Basically, I think SE has a lot more they should be focusing on, vs. something that basically already exists.

[Leonlionheart]

Like I said, this is essentially just a nudge. Nothing is really being added that couldn't be done by sending a /tell. There's certainly a level of convenience added, but that's not really the purpose. The actual outcome of having this type of chat would be that players who are seeking within the same level range are sort of "thrown into the pool" of communicating, instead of everyone just waiting around. This works under the assumption that guiding players into communication automatically will create parties, which I think is a correct one.

Then it's not a problem with the medium of communication but the laziness of the people looking for party. Once you put up your flag you are visible by EVERYONE who types "/sea all invite". If what you bring to the table is good enough there's no reason why anything more than /seacom is needed for finding members.

[Selzak]

Also can be done via shouts/lses. Not only that I'd imagine if you don't want to xp, then you'd have this filtered anyway. people arent going to want to listen to pages of "INVITE ME" unless they're actually forming a group, and then it's much easier to just use the search function.
You'd only see this chat if you were LFP and had an EXP flag up.



There is no such thing as "level range" with level sync. If you grouped people into the level ranges for those seeking, you might as well have them just talk in tells as there would be so few in the channel.
I think that's a problem, and would really appreciate a push towards similarly leveled players comprising at least most of an EXP party. I don't think level sync intended to regularly put level 75 NINs in a Qufim EXP party, but to allow for more flexibility in building parties (like letting that level 26 guy party with a group of 20's, 22's, and 24's). I think it's unfortunate that it's used more for the former situation, and I would hardly say that there's no such thing as level range- just that it's not unavoidable.


Then it's not a problem with the medium of communication but the laziness of the people looking for party. Once you put up your flag you are visible by EVERYONE who types "/sea all invite". If what you bring to the table is good enough there's no reason why anything more than /seacom is needed for finding members.
You're absolutely right, if everyone was willing to communicate with all the people who were searching and everyone was willing to lead parties then this wouldn't be very useful. However, the vast majority of people LFP are lazy and that's exactly why I think something like this, which promotes communication and initiates conversations about grouping, would be helpful.

I see this stance a lot on here and I think it's a little silly.

"Well if people..."
"Players just need to...."
"You can already...if you really want to..."

When talking about a broad attitude that influences the entire game, there's no point in mentioning that things would be different if people felt or acted another way.
I remember during the RMT days when the game's economy was horrendously broken you'd hear things like:
"Well, people just need to stop buying gil and then they'll go away."

While it's true, you have to approach problems realistically sometimes because theoretical solutions only go as far as they're going to actually be applied.