blood boon

[Secondplanet]

This ability has got to be one of the coolest for summoner. But the big issue i have with it is its very poor activating rate. I'm sitting on +21 blood boon with full Emp gear +2 and i'm lucky if i see it once an hour while spamming BP's. I did manage to do a 5k geocrush in dynamis the other day but over all i really don't see the plus side of hunting down all of this plus BB stuff for it still not to work that much

And considering the +2 set augments BB this is a big problem since whats the points of augmenting something that rarely ever happens.

[Soundwave]

I made a post on this @ BG so I'll bring it here.


here is a 100+ Sample size and I will continue it every day for more accurate %

The sheet I made is very similar to the person who used excel to test Blood Boon when it first came out and I modified the sheet a bit.

What I found so far...

-Each gear allows access to a Damage Multiplier of 1.25, 1.50, 1,75, 2.0, and possible 2.25
(I have confirmed the 1.25 found in excel sheet and just guessing there is one more we have yet to see.)
-Each gear gives a 1% Augment Blood boon and does NOT stack with other Blood Boon gear outside of AF3

-Augment Proc rate = 5.16%
Job Trait Blood Boon Proc rate = 47.74%
**Job Trait Blood Boon stacks with Non AF3 Gear**

*Food for Thought* I'm guessing between Avatar Physical Pacts may increase the chance of Augment Blood Boon more than Avatars Magical Pacts

Physical 5/5 = 15%???
Magical 5/5 = 5% ????

Thanks. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TVVLFR5Q

[Malamasala]

I don't quite think you got those numbers down right. Considering you seem to say we should get a blood boon proc every 2 BPs, and I must say I only notice like 1 per night.

[Soundwave]

First are you just referring to Augment from AF3 that you only see one a night?????

orrrrrrrrrrrr are you talking about Blood Boon Saving MP (NON AF3) gear proc rate?

If your talking about Augment disregard bottom, if not read bottom.



My number are correct, Its very hard to make an error when practically the sheet checks itself with fractions. also you did not mention what your Blood Boon is at?

(with that being said I would assume about 90% of all summoners do not watch how much MP they save, I'm guessing your just going off gut instinct of when u think you saved MP, which leads you to think my sheet is wrong and the proc rate is to high...I thought it was funny you didn't comment on the %5 proc rate of the "augment" Blood Boon because the % is so low we barley ever see it. Last so when testing both Proc rate and Augment rate when I have 45 seconds to wait for each BP I took careful time when finding out when MP was saved or not.)

The test was done with 21 Blood Bloon + w/e the job trait gives, I'll "guess" 5-10
I'm ball parking each +X Blood Boon is 1.8% Proc Rate for saving MP

There is also a fine line between Proc rate and how much MP you saved for that proc.

The sample size is as I stated...so the % will not be truly 100% accurate but they are pretty dang close in my opinion. If you want to believe it or not up to you, however its really hard to disagree with this sheet.

Just to clarify again


-Augment Blood Boon Proc rate = 5.16% (This is only AF3 Gear that effect Augment Blood Boon THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH SAVE MP)
Job Trait Blood Boon Proc rate = 47.74% (This is gear outside AF3 THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH AUGMENT BLOOD BOON.)
**Job Trait Blood Boon stacks with Non AF3 Gear**

[Malamasala]

There is also a fine line between Proc rate and how much MP you saved for that proc.


I'm sure it is. I only eyeball noticeable differences like 50%+ as procs. I guess one would also need a sheet covering the likelyhood for each proc amount. Like you could say there is a 50% proc rate, but 50% of those might just be 15 MP and negligible.

[Soundwave]

Like you could say there is a 50% proc rate, but 50% of those might just be 15 MP and negligible.

I'm sorry but your not making sense, its extremely obvious when you actually /echo <mp > you can see how much you save, so its either you save MP or you don't...........this other 50% Negligible you talk about?! Wut?

Also the sheet shows you how much MP I saved per BP "if" Blood Boon activated.

and now I'm just talking about Blood Boon not the Augment from af3 Gear

*****EDIT******

Nevermind I understand what you mean, you could of said "Bullshit"

however you make no sense because you don't understand the sheet at all because your tossing in a factor that has no meaning whats so ever.

Your bascially saying 2 things

1 Bullshit
2 When Blood Boon procs and saves MP You actually don't

[Razushu]

I'm sorry but your not making sense, its extremely obvious when you actually /echo <mp > you can see how much you save, so its either you save MP or you don't...........this other 50% Negligible you talk about?! Wut?

Also the sheet shows you how much MP I saved per BP "if" Blood Boon activated.



and now I'm just talking about Blood Boon not the Augment from af3 Gear

*****EDIT******

Nevermind I understand what you mean, you could of said "Bullshit"

however you make no sense because you don't understand the sheet at all because your tossing in a factor that has no meaning whats so ever.

Your bascially saying 2 things

1 Bullshit
2 When Blood Boon procs and saves MP You actually don't

No what they're saying is Blood Boon procs often, however the amount of MP saved varies for instance I did an inferno howl for 60~ MP last night instead of 72MP my MP went from 480~ to 420~ which was a maximum saving of 20%

[Soundwave]

A proc is a proc nothing is negligible.

[Razushu]

A proc is a proc nothing is negligible.

A proc is a proc true enough but if the reward is small enough and doesn't make a difference in the fight the reward is negligible. The <12 MP I saved on Inferno howl WAS negligible because it was a miniscule amount of MP if I was fighting something bigger than an EP skeleton and finished the fight with around 10 MP as opposed to the 250+ MP. Small savings like that are negligible unless they happen multiple times over the course of a fight/party/farming run and become the difference between resting or another BP: Rage

[Malamasala]

A proc is a proc nothing is negligible.

I swap gear during BPs. My Perpetuation increase with possibly up to 12 MP per tick for a tick. This is negligible since I'd rather enhance my BPs than save MP. If a proc saves me the same sum, it also becomes negligible since it is a small amount eaten by my perpetuation tick anyway.

I also have about 6 MP per tick refresh. If I save 12 MP from a Blood Boon, it is the same as getting 2 ticks of refresh for myself, which is 6 seconds saved in downtime. Pretty negligible overall.

When we talk 50-60 MP, it is noticeable. That is way more than I'd might spend on increased perpetuation. What I'd gain over the course of 30 seconds refresh.

[Soundwave]

I swap gear during BP's as well your not the only one, even for testing made it much easy to cancel out the "negligible". I like to enhance my BP...however this was for testing both BB Augment and Blood Boodn.....you make it sound like I don't while I actually play the game? However this is for Testing the goal here was not to enhance the BP not sure why you would say that.

anyways....

This makes more sense when you say it with your own gear, fortunately I have gear where my swap is only 3MP and you can clearly see the saving MP amount never ever goes that low. Also during the swap I took careful measure when the tic of MP would accrue, it was not that hard.

again Its negligible to you now that you have cleared it up on your part, however was not for me.

In the end your pick apart my first post and I'm glad you did not you've given me more ideas for more testing.

[Babekeke]

-Each gear allows access to a Damage Multiplier of 1.25, 1.50, 1,75, 2.0, and possible 2.25
(I have confirmed the 1.25 found in excel sheet and just guessing there is one more we have yet to see.)

This confused me a little. You have 5 mulitipliers there for a 'set bonus'. Surely if they follow this trend it is 1,25 for 2 pieces, 1.5 for 3, 1.75 for 4 and 2.0 for all 5 pieces. It's a 'set bonus' so there's no bonus for just equipping 1 piece.

[Soundwave]

You are correct, that's my mistake, I only sought it out like that because I found a damage multiplier of 1.25 so I then said maybe possible there is a 2.25 which I kinda doubt, but I considered a damage multiplier for each gear.

What I should of said...their are five parts to the AF3 and maybe up to 5 multipliers and each gear gains 1% to the five multipliers.

Thanks~:cool:

[Babekeke]

No problem. But forgive me being a little slow... Each AF+2 adds 0.25 multiplier, or adds 1% on top of the multipliers which are random?

[Soundwave]

No problem. But forgive me being a little slow... Each AF+2 adds 0.25 multiplier, or adds 1% on top of the multipliers which are random?

Oh no your fine, you got it right its a set bonus.

So

There is a total of 4 Damage modifiers and possible 1 that nobody has seen but I highly doubt the 2.25

1.25
1.50
1,75
2.0
2.25 (Have yet to see, this I assumed to be true just by how many pieces of AF3 gear...Head/Body/Hands/Legs/Feet)

Sorry I'm trailing off to answer your question, each gear adds 1% so the set has a total of 5% to proc Blood Boon Augment. The sample size is somewhat small so its around 5-7%

[Rexen]

I've bee working on full +2 to get the set bonus to proc, but there's some things I'm not too sure about or to see if it's worth it.

Diabolos's Rope and Soulscourge or Caller's Sash and the magian staff for magical bloodpacts? From what I understand there's a 5% chance for the set bonus to kick in when blood boon procs, so would it be better to make blood boon proc more often or just gear for maximum bonus on different blood pacts?

Also, it's off topic, but what accessories do you use for the different bloodpacts?

[Soundwave]

I've bee working on full +2 to get the set bonus to proc, but there's some things I'm not too sure about or to see if it's worth it.

Diabolos's Rope and Soulscourge or Caller's Sash and the magian staff for magical bloodpacts? From what I understand there's a 5% chance for the set bonus to kick in when blood boon procs, so would it be better to make blood boon proc more often or just gear for maximum bonus on different blood pacts?

To make sure we on the same page know that...

-Augment Blood Boon Proc rate = 5.16% (This is only AF3 Gear that effect Augment Blood Boon THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH SAVE MP)
Job Trait Blood Boon Proc rate = 47.74% (This is gear outside AF3 THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH AUGMENT BLOOD BOON.)
**Job Trait Blood Boon stacks with Non AF3 Gear**

They do not work in correlation with each other
Blood Boon Augment is only for damage
Blood Boon is only for saving a % of MP based of a chance of a % to proc.


Also, it's off topic, but what accessories do you use for the different bloodpacts?

Each +X Blood Boon is 1.8% Proc Rate for saving MP I would say use your best judgment on when you want to deal a bit more damage or to save more mp but I feel that between how much MP you save vs how much damage is somewhat on a equal plane.

I use

Full AF3
Soulscourge
Diabolos Rope (I would use caller sash but don't have yet.)
callers earring
Gifted earring
Tiresias' Cape
Eidolon pendant

[Arciel]

has anyone noticed whilst not wearing AF+2 that when blood boon procs the damage of the BP occasionally DECREASES?

has occurred to me several times.. i find it rather odd

[Malamasala]

Never noticed that at all. I do however notice that every 5 hours I play and BP, I get 1 trigger. Seems a bit harsh on a 5 piece set bonus. Would it kill SE to make the trigger so common that I get one per hour?

[Dallas]

+2 provides only a marginal damage bonus to magic pacts. There is so much better gear for physical pacts.

[Byrth]

Heyo, Soundwave! What is your name on BG? I'd like to PM you about your Blood Boon testing, as I'm about to start on a massive Summoning magic skillup campaign and would like to see if I can contribute anything on the way.

I'm intending to approach it the same way that I approached Conserve MP testing, but it'll likely be a little harder to parse out.

[Dallas]

If you want to parse it, just spam Aero 2 in a L1 zone.

[Soundwave]

Heyo, Soundwave! What is your name on BG? I'd like to PM you about your Blood Boon testing, as I'm about to start on a massive Summoning magic skillup campaign and would like to see if I can contribute anything on the way.

I'm intending to approach it the same way that I approached Conserve MP testing, but it'll likely be a little harder to parse out.

Sent you a PM

[Suljin]

To make sure we on the same page know that...

-Augment Blood Boon Proc rate = 5.16% (This is only AF3 Gear that effect Augment Blood Boon THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH SAVE MP)
Job Trait Blood Boon Proc rate = 47.74% (This is gear outside AF3 THIS DOES NOT HELP WITH AUGMENT BLOOD BOON.)
**Job Trait Blood Boon stacks with Non AF3 Gear**

They do not work in correlation with each other
Blood Boon Augment is only for damage
Blood Boon is only for saving a % of MP based of a chance of a % to proc.



Each +X Blood Boon is 1.8% Proc Rate for saving MP I would say use your best judgment on when you want to deal a bit more damage or to save more mp but I feel that between how much MP you save vs how much damage is somewhat on a equal plane.

I use

Full AF3
Soulscourge
Diabolos Rope (I would use caller sash but don't have yet.)
callers earring
Gifted earring
Tiresias' Cape
Eidolon pendant

I don't see where you get this, when I did the test when blood boon first came out I mirrored it to conserve mps, with an inherant % of 25, and any + gear gave +X %. With the spats that I got the day after the update and my test, it showed a 26% proc rate (with +3 blood boon). Sample size was only 50 mobs but 26 is closer to the estimated 28 than what you're claiming should be 1.8 x 3 = 5.4 +25 = 30.

[Dekusuta]

If Soundwave is correct and the Damage modifier does not stack with the Blood Boon trait, why is it even called Augment blood boon?

What is the relationship between the AF3 Augment Blood Boon and Blood Bood Trait and gear that enhances it?

The one explanation I've read that made the most sense was the 'Augment Blood Boon' was meant to imply there's a chance MP saved is transfered into a damage bonus.

So that there's actually an incentive and synergy between Blood Boon the trait and gear that add to this and Augment Blood Boon (the set bonus). The more pieces mean more chances of increased damage when blood boon procs.

Treating MP savings and Damage bonus separately seems to not make sense to me, and it is possibly why soundwave's numbers seem arbitrary.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If Soundwave is correct and the Damage modifier does not stack with the Blood Boon trait, why is it even called Augment blood boon?


To answer this, War set bonus appears to function in a similar way, in the sense it procs outside of the normal trait or +trait gear.

Inf ohere (also mentions summoner's set bonus as being similar): http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103597-Temporary-Random-Facts-Thread?p=4662203&viewfull=1#post4662203

[Sargent]

Good testing, however a new question needs to be addressed. And that is how much Pet:Attack+ or MAB+ in gear would it take to deal more damage over time than AF3+2.

Bearing in mind only Caller's Doublet enhances damage directly (Spats for Magical provided your pet isn't sitting on 250+ TP), there are now so many more options to Blood Pact in thanks to the Abjuration revamp.

For instance (ignoring body options since Caller's Doublet +2 beats other options):
Physical Pacts:
Head: Karura Hachigane (Garuda only)
Hands: Evoker's Gages (Leviathan only)
Legs: Tatsumaki Sitagoromo (Atk+7), Shadow/Valkyrie's Trews (Atk+3~12, Crit Rate+1~3)
Feet: Summoner's Pigaches (+2s have Crit Rate +5 as well), Koschei Crackows

Magical Pacts:
Head: Shadow/Valkyrie's Hat (MAB+1~4), Summoner's Horn +2 (MAB+4)
Hands: Shadow/Valkryie's Cuffs (MAB+1~5)
Feet: Zenith Pumps/+1 (MAB+1~5)

Personally, I BP in a Mix and Match set, I see my Blood Pacts do a noticable amount more than Summoner's in the same party who use full AF3(outside Abyssea, so not comparing with Atmas). My instinct tells me that a Mix and Match set would be better, but would like to see some actual math on this.

[Neisan_Quetz]

If the set bonus works like War's (separate function of blood Boon with low rate of activation) then it is probably not worth using full set for Bloodpacts pretty much ever.