WoEs

[Fyreus]

I don't know about you guys... but 50 wing, 50 slime parts, and 75 dog teeth seem a lot easier to obtain than 30 coins on dying content. What is your view on walk of echoes these days?

[Ravenmore]

Biggest problem I have with it is the zone wide lotting. If they did away with that then think more poeple might do it.

[Fyreus]

1 coin every few days is the issue. Everyone's in gukumatz aery and people are getting skins/wings/legs etc faster than coins. litterly 2x as fast. There are other things i do in the day so i would rather deal with 30 coins (which seem to not exist even with th) than 100 guku 100sirrush 100 minax and 50-75 sobeks and stones. The other guys i won't even count up or mention...

[svengalis]

1 coin every few days is the issue. Everyone's in gukumatz aery and people are getting skins/wings/legs etc faster than coins. litterly 2x as fast. There are other things i do in the day so i would rather deal with 30 coins (which seem to not exist even with th) than 100 guku 100sirrush 100 minax and 50-75 sobeks and stones. The other guys i won't even count up or mention...

It's harder to find help for woe. And honestly the weapons you get from woe weapons are not worth the time you put into them.

Edit: With the new adjustments I take back what I said. LOL Empyrean weapons are not worth the time you have to put into them if people actually will start doing WoE.

[Duzell]

Coins should rain in Walk of Echos like currency used to fall in dynamis. These are supposed to be the "common" low quality versions. You should be able to get a weapon done with 4-5 visits to the zone since in that same five hours you could get 25+ helmets with a good small group.

[susu]

Plz　The Leech is exterminated.
Leech　=　Entrance　Roll　only　Player

[Leonlionheart]

1. Level BLM, BST, RNG, BLU, SMN
2. Do flux 7 (Almost always drops 2~4 sacks)
3. Finish weapon

You can finish in one run if lucky, two if unlucky.

Hard fight if you suck at kiting, but I've seen two SMNs do it before.

[katz]

Plz　The Leech is exterminated.
Leech　=　Entrance　Roll　only　Player

The trouble with this is how do you define it from the single player who is taking an active role in hit mobs and killing them. Ive gone into WOE solo, had to be my own healer dd raiser. I can do it but everyone else in the zone doesnt like it. I work harder than everyone else because I have to self sufficient and yet people frown on you lotting. Give me a WOE that there isnt any party allowed.

[Mordanthos]

to be honest, i have a WoE Great Axe, and a Ukon. If your goal is to solo in WoE just stop while your ahead, its going to take an ungodly amount of time to finish 30 coins that way and you're doing it wrong. Get some people and do conflux 2 runs, its relatively easy, and very fast. Its not worth your time to solo that place, the drops are too random. It took me 4 weeks to complete the 30 coins because i had no help. It took me 5 hardcore 12 hour sessions on Glavoid to finish 50 shells with just 5 of us.

Ultimately the WoE can be faster if you do it right, and thats by doing cleared conflux runs. If your not going to complete it for Pouches, then just quit wasting your time and do the Emp.

[Khiinroye]

The trouble with this is how do you define it from the single player who is taking an active role in hit mobs and killing them. Ive gone into WOE solo, had to be my own healer dd raiser. I can do it but everyone else in the zone doesnt like it. I work harder than everyone else because I have to self sufficient and yet people frown on you lotting. Give me a WOE that there isnt any party allowed.

They don't like you lotting because:
1) If the clearing group weren't there, the drops wouldn't be there either.
2) If you weren't there, the drops would still be there.
3) You might be throwing them off their normal strategy by forcing people to play for points rather than the win in order to make sure that all the winning chests stay in the clear group. Thus, you are making it harder to win. The chest system is heavily biased towards some jobs, and most of the leeches will come as those jobs so they can get a chest at the end more easily for playing the points system.

[katz]

Didnt say i didnt understand why they didnt like me there. Just they stare at you for basically playing your own game in zone that allows it. I got plenty of kills in solo maybe not the boss but I was attacking it so why couldnt I get the drops from it. Not my fault they didnt ask me to join them when I asked to join their party. If you ask and they turn you down then they are basically telling you they dont want you to play by their rules.

[Alhanelem]

The thing is, coin collecting can be done solo, while most of the NMs can't be (A MNK with a pocket WHM is not "solo."). Also, some of the NMs are in heavy competition and it can take longer than you expect to get all those items.
Also WoE weapon stage 2 and 3 are extremely simple and more or less fast, while the abyssea NMs will take some time due to needing to collect pop items.

@ above post: If you're contributing to the fight, I disagree with any notion that you shouldn't be entitled to lot. Now, there are people who stand there and do nothing then lot on stuff. But most people helped. And beating WoE#2 doesn't require rocket science, so the notion of throwing people off their strategy is nonsense unless you're being a Leeroy Jenkins.

[Sparthos]

Unless your server has flux7 open, WoE is a waste of time for 30 coins.

The only thing that is going to fix the zone is making coins extremely common, removing the pointless 30min lockdown and having some way of trading in useless bags (Ruin hi) for another through an NPC.

[Khiinroye]

The whole leech thing is overdone and off topic. Groups can win without leeches, leeches will have their "I'm helping so I should be able to lot!" attitude. They're referred to as leeches because they are not needed to win, and thus the group sees them as contributing nothing. The leech cannot get the main chest and bonus chest without the group, but the group can get them without the leech, and thus can miss out on coins and bonus chests when a leech is present. The view is that the leech is following them because they will get a chance to lot these extra drops that they couldn't get on their own, at the expense of the people who are able to actually do the work to earn them. Yes, some drops are still worth quite a bit of gil. A pickup group should almost always accept random people in the zone, but a non-pickup group usually won't.

Its aggravating when there are 6-7 people trying to solo or duo, and 3 or 4 follow your group into a conflux instead of teaming up with the other people and doing #2.

As to the OP:
#2 is easily done in a pickup group of a few melees / mages and a sac for the small slimes.
#5 and #7 are routinely done by pet burns. From what I've seen, its usually smn for 7, and smn and bst for 5, though I can see pup fitting in on both of those.

[Taint2]

The worst part of WoE is the GD CS you have to do each time. They could atleast make yes the top answer so you can spam it.

[Sparthos]

The concept of a pool like Campaign has always been suspect.

WoE needs to be a point system like Einherjar.

[Alhanelem]

Unless your server has flux7 open, WoE is a waste of time for 30 coins.

The only thing that is going to fix the zone is making coins extremely common, removing the pointless 30min lockdown and having some way of trading in useless bags (Ruin hi) for another through an NPC.

flux 7? What's wrong with 1/2/3? 1 and 3 are easily solo/duo farmed, and 2 is easily winnable with a small group.

A campaign system would have worked okay if the event was enticing enough and was not much more difficult than campaign that people would have actually done it in greater numbers.

[Sparthos]

flux 7? What's wrong with 1/2/3? 1 and 3 are easily solo/duo farmed, and 2 is easily winnable with a small group.

Flux 7 has a high chance of 3-4 pouches in the pool after a win.

1/2/3 do not have that chance.

[Alhanelem]

Flux 7 has a high chance of 3-4 pouches in the pool after a win. Unless you can win it solo, it's a moot point.

[Sparthos]

Unless you can win it solo, it's a moot point.

You're wasting your time in WoE if you're solo starting from 0 coins. Go to Abyssea.

If you're doing WoE in a group, flux7 is the best bang for your buck. It can be petburned, kited easily and has that high chance of pouches.

No other flux has the rate that flux7 can have.

[Ravenmore]

The whole leech thing is overdone and off topic. Groups can win without leeches, leeches will have their "I'm helping so I should be able to lot!" attitude. They're referred to as leeches because they are not needed to win, and thus the group sees them as contributing nothing. The leech cannot get the main chest and bonus chest without the group, but the group can get them without the leech, and thus can miss out on coins and bonus chests when a leech is present. The view is that the leech is following them because they will get a chance to lot these extra drops that they couldn't get on their own, at the expense of the people who are able to actually do the work to earn them. Yes, some drops are still worth quite a bit of gil. A pickup group should almost always accept random people in the zone, but a non-pickup group usually won't.

Its aggravating when there are 6-7 people trying to solo or duo, and 3 or 4 follow your group into a conflux instead of teaming up with the other people and doing #2.

As to the OP:
#2 is easily done in a pickup group of a few melees / mages and a sac for the small slimes.
#5 and #7 are routinely done by pet burns. From what I've seen, its usually smn for 7, and smn and bst for 5, though I can see pup fitting in on both of those.

SE set it up for free for all so they are not doing anything wrong. This is why the event failed. You can't set up any point based LS system and doing so is a waste of time. You can't even set up a set time since the solo players would notice and come every run too. SE could have fixed this from the start. When your on a server with 2000 other players on at the same time as you who cares if that LS looks down on you. Do I like it no but it was the way it was put in

[Alhanelem]

You're wasting your time in WoE if you're solo starting from 0 coins. Go to Abyssea. Go to abyssea and do what? buy drops from other groups? I don't know any weapons that can be soloed up to the weaponskill by anyone.

[Sparthos]

Go to abyssea and do what? buy drops from other groups? I don't know any weapons that can be soloed up to the weaponskill by anyone.

If you are going to be soloing WoE without a group from scratch for a weapon, you're better off doing Abyssea, getting a group to kill NMs and slowly working your way up to the Empyrean.

It isn't like XI has anything else to offer atm other than Abyssea - it's where most people are.

Soloing coins by killing the trash mobs could keep you in WoE for months. The only time doing WoE is worth it is if you can clear chambers consistently and even that fails outside flux7 due to the randomness of coinpurses in the main pool.

[Zagen]

Go to abyssea and do what? buy drops from other groups? I don't know any weapons that can be soloed up to the weaponskill by anyone.
Great Katana, Gun, Great Sword...
Carabosse - NIN/DNC
Cirein-croin - RDM, BLM, SCH all can solo it.

There you go and that's without brews.

With Luck I could see a NIN/DNC soloing Katana but Sobek tends to be a jerk a lot.

[Zetonegi]

Go to abyssea and do what? buy drops from other groups? I don't know any weapons that can be soloed up to the weaponskill by anyone.
NIN/DNC solo triggers then PUG the NM or just PUG the triggers and have em change jobs for the NM. Its not hard to do and you can get a decent number of pops done per run if you PUG triggers+NM. If you're against PUGing it or asking your LS to help then that's your problem and you're making it artificially more difficult on yourself and it doesn't change the fact that WoE is a horribly implemented system and its much easier to get an empy if you actually use all the tools available to you instead of blatantly shunning them.

[Alhanelem]

getting a group Getting a group to kill NMs for you and give you these drops is not as simple as you think for many people.

[Ravenmore]

Getting a group to kill NMs for you and give you these drops is not as simple as you think for many people.

Yeah it is I see shout groups all the time doing this, not even the same group of people doing it. Whats funny is they shout for sobak or carabosse and they are at 6 shouting for more. Pugs being pugs safety in numbers I geuss.

[Alhanelem]

Yeah it is I see shout groups all the time doing this1) Not all of those shout groups happen
2) you're right, it's not the same people doing it; that's what makes it so hard. You might get lucky and get one group that pops it once one day, some other group that pops it next week, yada yada. More often than not the people running it want what you want, thus you can't have it. The only likely exception is if you're doing staff, because no other weapon shares the same trial NM and nobody wants it.

It is not a simple matter. Just because you see people shouting for one of several different NMs here and tehre does not mean it's easy to join them AND get what you want.

When you're soloing/duoing with a friend, you have control over when you do stuff and you dont have competition. The unpopularity of WoE makes that even less of a problem. And again, with WoE, it's only one difficult, time consuming trial, not three (And if by some stroke of luck you DO have a group to do it with, you can probably get all three trials done in a day)

[Zagen]

1) Not all of those shout groups happen
2) you're right, it's not the same people doing it; that's what makes it so hard. You might get lucky and get one group that pops it once one day, some other group that pops it next week, yada yada. More often than not the people running it want what you want, thus you can't have it. The only likely exception is if you're doing staff, because no other weapon shares the same trial NM and nobody wants it.

It is not a simple matter. Just because you see people shouting for one of several different NMs here and tehre does not mean it's easy to join them AND get what you want.

When you're soloing/duoing with a friend, you have control over when you do stuff and you dont have competition. The unpopularity of WoE makes that even less of a problem. And again, with WoE, it's only one difficult, time consuming trial, not three (And if by some stroke of luck you DO have a group to do it with, you can probably get all three trials done in a day)

You'd be the one shouting... thus you'd make the rules to get what you want. Sure not all of the groups happen but a lot of them do at least on my server they do since I see the same people who shouted for Briareus now shouting for Sobek.

You sound like no matter what options are presented you won't be happy. Guess what you're the one holding you back not the other players on the server or in this forum.

It is really simple pick one of these options:
1. Make a few friends (3 at most is needed) who play similar schedules, and decide on Emps to do together.
2. Shout for PUG people wanting +2 items to help you get emp items.
3. Shout for PUG people to do WoE with you.
4. Suck it up, accept you're playing an MMO and refuse to take part in the "multiplayer" part of an MMO and solo for coins.

If none of these options are acceptable to you well you're playing the wrong genre of game.

[Ravenmore]

Hell one of the crap layers from titan shouted up every single NM he needed for his Almace. Seems he was good at shouting for help and getting it. People shout all the time for emp. weapon mobs offering the +2s as the carrot it seems to work. After a couple of days they move on to the next stage and start over. That is what I meant with not seeing the same people trying over and over. Guku is not even that big of a road block. I'm seeing more and more FC leech spot sellers in the coast now. If the shout says it's going to last 5 or so hours think how many KIs you will see.

[katz]

So you advocate doing abyssea over WOE because you do both with a group for coins or skins. Makes as much sense as saying get a WOE group or Get an abyssea group, just dont go solo. Seems to be alot of rat pack syndrome. "i cant do it solo, therefore no one should"

[Alhanelem]

You'd be the one shouting... thus you'd make the rules to get what you want. Sure not all of the groups happen but a lot of them do at least on my server they do since I see the same people who shouted for Briareus now shouting for Sobek.You know what, I've tried that a bunch of times. Getting people by shouting isn't as easy as you think. I, nor the first one or two people I persuade want to wait an hour or more just to form a group to maybe kill an NM once or twice out of the 30 times needed.

WoE is substantially faster, and that's why it's available as an alternative.

[Zagen]

You know what, I've tried that a bunch of times. Getting people by shouting isn't as easy as you think. I, nor the first one or two people I persuade want to wait an hour or more just to form a group to maybe kill an NM once or twice out of the 30 times needed.

WoE is substantially faster, and that's why it's available as an alternative.

Something must be wrong with how you shout.

It takes 2 people(3 for TH if you aren't THF tanking) to kill 80 and 85 NMs. Anyone else is there for procing yellow/blue/red !! as desired. Unless you want to have plenty of bodies to throw at Sobek.

My friend and I tried duoing WoE single coins from crabs/antlions and in 3 weeks we got 1 coin I wanted and my friend got 0 before we gave up on soloing. In an additional 3 weeks with a WHM we got 50 helms for my sword and 50 for his katana, that's with KI farming from the NMs. It took us a month to get 50 skins for his katana with AoE Farming KIs a few days we did other things and a few lost Sobek's due to crazy Tyrant Tusks.

If you honestly think you can farm 30 coins that you need solo in 7 weeks, you're either crazy, luckiest person ever, or found a way to hack drops.

[Camate]

As I am sure many of you are curious about Walk of Echo adjustments, we managed to grab the dude in charge and confirmed a couple details. The below points outline the current direction the devs are looking into:

• Change Walk of Echoes into an 18 person reserved battlefield
• With the move to a reserved battlefield, the time limitation will be changed from 45 minutes to 30 minutes
• Revamp rewards granted upon clearing the battlefield
• Abolishment of additional rewards to players who are evaluated highly
• Change so that the whole party receives the clear title instead of just the highest evaluated player
• Addition of higher tier Walks of Echoes

They will continue to be exploring the specific content from here on out, so please feel free to leave any feedback!

[katz]

So basically no more weapons for the soloists. Dont understand this game. Made relics soloist with the changes to dynamis and removed emps by making it 18 man. I guess I can throw away the coins Ive saved because they are useless now.

[Ravenmore]

Thank you camate maybe now it won't suck but not holding my breath.

[Khiinroye]

With the battlefields becoming reserved, will there still be a 30 minute cooldown between different groups accessing the battlefield? If not, it will be
30 minutes fighting > 30 minutes cooldown > same group enters.
Without the cooldown, it could be
30 minutes fighting (group 1) > 30 minutes fighting (group 2) > group 1 can enter again.

If not, I can see the confluxes being bogged down by solo/duo people, who can lock everyone else out of the conflux until they are done with it.

I doubt that people will team up to clear #2 instead of killing 4 or 5 mobs in #1 or #3, even with these changes.

[Zagen]

So basically no more weapons for the soloists. Dont understand this game. Made relics soloist with the changes to dynamis and removed emps by making it 18 man. I guess I can throw away the coins Ive saved because they are useless now.
I don't understand the logic in doing things as a "soloist" in a massive multi-player online role playing game. Want it for an achievement of some sort? Cool then deal with it the way it works now, or works in the future but don't complain when a MMORPG doesn't cater to a "soloist"

[Byrth]

Unless I missed something, he didn't say there was a minimum number of players to enter. So you could enter zones solo and take up the half hour. It's still possible to solo your weapon, but you have to actually solo it.

[katz]

The trouble is it does cater for solo players. Its FOV design is for more solo players. The group activiities are only what ever is flavour of the month. At the moment its AF3 2 armour. But if the group has finished the mob it moves off and the event is left behind. Where is the challenges for the groups going to be when you have all got your armour and 1 person is left behind. Its always sorry we have finished doing that go get it solo. Well that effectively means you arent going to get it done. Look at all the posts that people are saying they cant do it because no group wants to go whether its Nyzul Limbus Sky Einherjar. Look at all the individual posts for changes to single jobs because they feel their group isnt utiliing them because they dont have x y or z skills because another job has it. Whether you like it or not this game is about individuals as much as it is about groups. MMORPG is about co operation amongst single people. If you have more time than the next person how many groups do you have to belong to get things done. How often do you run out of stones because you use them with a different group. So whats left for you to do. Wait 6 hours for maybe 1 hour of game play because thats the time the groups are on together. Yeah you can keep your group activity no one crafts in a group. Dont expect craft materials to be the ah because single people usually farm those. Why should these be the only activities left for the soloists. I work harder than any of your group leeches who may hit a mob once or twice I deserve more rewards not less.

[Coldbrand]

I'd still like to better rewards for players who work harder.

[Zagen]

The trouble is it does cater for solo players. Its FOV design is for more solo players. The group activiities are only what ever is flavour of the month. At the moment its AF3 2 armour. But if the group has finished the mob it moves off and the event is left behind. Where is the challenges for the groups going to be when you have all got your armour and 1 person is left behind. Its always sorry we have finished doing that go get it solo. Well that effectively means you arent going to get it done. Look at all the posts that people are saying they cant do it because no group wants to go whether its Nyzul Limbus Sky Einherjar. Look at all the individual posts for changes to single jobs because they feel their group isnt utiliing them because they dont have x y or z skills because another job has it. Whether you like it or not this game is about individuals as much as it is about groups. MMORPG is about co operation amongst single people. If you have more time than the next person how many groups do you have to belong to get things done. How often do you run out of stones because you use them with a different group. So whats left for you to do. Wait 6 hours for maybe 1 hour of game play because thats the time the groups are on together. Yeah you can keep your group activity no one crafts in a group. Dont expect craft materials to be the ah because single people usually farm those. Why should these be the only activities left for the soloists. I work harder than any of your group leeches who may hit a mob once or twice I deserve more rewards not less.

Make better friends in game.

I showed interest in doing WoE, and mentioned how a pet party of 4-5 SMN/BSTs could easily take down #5 and then mentioned how apparently #7 is easy for a pet group too which has better rewards. Those with pet jobs asked me to setup a time when they're all on and we'd go. None of them have any interest in any coins, if they want a Emp WS they're working on the Emp weapon.

In other words they would go just to help me, that 1 guy who wants coins. The same is true for others in the LS while working on Helms my group all got a set of 6 Voyage Jewels, the rest we gave away to other LS members all they had to do was show up to lot. If they wanted to help awesome but it wasn't necessary.

It is really about the people you or anyone else associates with that determines how you get things in game. If you're with a group or have the mentality to tell someone who was left out to "go solo it" then it's no surprise you have to "go solo it".

[Ravenmore]

I'd still like to better rewards for players who work harder.

You can't have that kind of system in this game. Tanks and melees will always have the upper hand heals and buffers will be put out since they won't be taking damage and healers won't be dealing damage with out getting yelled at by the rest of the party if they did that and not healing or buffing.

[Cream_Soda]

I'd still like to better rewards for players who work harder.
It's not about working harder, it's about going certain job combos that can exploit the most points

[Cream_Soda]

As far as the emps go, if you can farm the pop items by yourself, even if you can't solo the NM, it's more than easy to get a group for.

Go farm pops.

Shout for ppl who want other drops and only lock out upgrade item (So ppl coming to Sobek, for example, would get a chance at stone and card, not just card which it can only drop x1 of(unless that was also changed)). Pt fills up quick.

When I was doing Ulhuadshi, I'd go farm 2 pops at a time (myself and my mule), everything but fangs available, out of all 50 fangs, I think the longest it ever took to get enough players to do the NM was 8 minutes of shouting.

[Invader]

I assume that by making it "reserved" it will not be the same failga of old dynamis, and will be an instanced battlefield like BCNMs? In that case it wont be so bad :)

[Xellith]

I don't think that lowering the amount of time in the zone is a good idea unless you are going to nerf some of the monsters.

Some people like myself still want to be able to solo or low man our coins for our weapons and we don't want to lose out and not get any gains - not to mention pi**ing off other groups by beating them to claim the zone even though I'm just solo. So far all this seems to is be catering to large groups of people while the majority of the people who in fact do walk of echos are actually just low man groups or soloers who team up if its convenient.

Its all well and good trying to make changes to walk of echos - how about upping the drop rate on coins so its like dynamis now rather than dynamis 3 years ago.

[Airget]

As I am sure many of you are curious about Walk of Echo adjustments, we managed to grab the dude in charge and confirmed a couple details. The below points outline the current direction the devs are looking into:

• Change Walk of Echoes into an 18 person reserved battlefield
• With the move to a reserved battlefield, the time limitation will be changed from 45 minutes to 30 minutes
• Revamp rewards granted upon clearing the battlefield
• Abolishment of additional rewards to players who are evaluated highly
• Change so that the whole party receives the clear title instead of just the highest evaluated player
• Addition of higher tier Walks of Echoes

They will continue to be exploring the specific content from here on out, so please feel free to leave any feedback!

Suggestion, would it be possible to add more of a story to WoE that relate to the possible rewards, maybe even tie it into a new way to gain abilities and traits. Basically when I think of WoE I imagine it as an area that contain fragmented memories from different dimensions with the overall concept of playing the cleaner of sorts. So basically since there are plans to add more areas you could have it work in tiers where each area has it's own story arc from another dimension so players can just have fun seeing the differen "vandiel" concepts. With those concepts in mind it would be cool if just like abyssea with atma/abyssite, you could obtain memory fragments that could be used to augment your job in certain ways, like changing your JA to another one when you set the the memory to your job and such.

I dunno I just would like to see an event that's more then just "get gear". I'd like to see a variety where the reward could be a new technique to learn to enhance you jobs ability. I think it could be fun and the abilities and traits can tie into the dimension fragment you are attempting to clean out.

[Kari]

Does this mean that WoE will no longer be an event anyone can go in and help with?
That was probably the only thing about WoE I liked.
Sounding like generic BCNMs now.

[Yinnyth]

Does this mean that WoE will no longer be an event anyone can go in and help with?
That was probably the only thing about WoE I liked.
Sounding like generic BCNMs now.

My experience with WoE is not as rosey as yours. We've managed to get a few runs going as a linkshell without any "helpers", but the vast majority of our attempts involved some random person entering to "help" us. They were all a burden to our group. The most annoying one I remember was a RDM/NIN chasing around a mob we were attempting to kite, hitting it with joyeuse and feeding it TP. More annoying still, since these "helpers" didn't listen to orders from our leaders, they could do whatever it takes for them to be valued more highly than the rest of our members, so they almost always got one of our finishing chests when they were actually making things harder for our group. They would lot the random drop coins(ALL OF THEM... apparantly they were making every type of weapon), making it harder for us to reward our linkshell members.

Most annoying of all is that these random people who were leeching off our linkshell's abilities would get NOTHING if organized groups didn't go. They were parasites who fed off the very life force of their hosts, and I'm glad the game is no longer rewarding this kind of player.

[Kirschy]

As I am sure many of you are curious about Walk of Echo adjustments, we managed to grab the dude in charge and confirmed a couple details. The below points outline the current direction the devs are looking into:

• Change Walk of Echoes into an 18 person reserved battlefield
• With the move to a reserved battlefield, the time limitation will be changed from 45 minutes to 30 minutes
• Revamp rewards granted upon clearing the battlefield
• Abolishment of additional rewards to players who are evaluated highly
• Change so that the whole party receives the clear title instead of just the highest evaluated player
• Addition of higher tier Walks of Echoes

They will continue to be exploring the specific content from here on out, so please feel free to leave any feedback!

One of the best pre-update notes I've seen yet. I can't wait!

[Francisco]

I'm a bit concerned about people soloing in there and "sneaking" in just as a group is about to enter...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

More then one group can be in the same BCNM at a time, perhaps they'll do it that way with the coming change.

[Xellith]

More then one group can be in the same BCNM at a time, perhaps they'll do it that way with the coming change.

We can hope. /crosses fingers

[Leonlionheart]

Oh man, I always enjoyed getting in the top 5 on BLU...

Those damnable paladins though, I could never beat them.

[Sparthos]

Coinpurse rate will need adjustment as the top5 boxes were some of the best places to get coins.

[Darkren]

If they just gave a chest with the treasure quality based on performance whether or not you killed the bosses, it may solve the issues. But cap it at a small chance of getting one pouch so that it doesn't defer from trying to get the win.

[Ohji_Lunartail]

Eh me and a few friends was talkin bout this earlier and Thot if 1: make it like einherjar with the reserved deal, multiple rooms per flux tier so said flux isn't locked out to other players but said room is, having said rooms with same mobs, like flux 5 have 5 rooms with the same wyvern/natrix hydra spawns. And 2 on the rewards thing if it goes to a chest that determines prizes based on performance it better not be like voidwatch where ya can work ya a$$ off and get a rock while someone gets the good item that just stood there and tosses it cuz they don't want it, and yes I've seen this happen several times. Tbh a point system like einherjar whould be great. Get points based on performance and in turn trade these to the flux in xarc [s] for coins/gear while still having the main prize chest. And the whole atma Thingy someone mentioned earlier whould be neat lol

[Kraggy]

I don't understand the logic in doing things as a "soloist" in a massive multi-player online role playing game.
The fact YOU don't understand it doesn't invalidate it, it shows your limited comprehension.

[Kraggy]

I'd still like to better rewards for players who work harder.
Because 'hard' things aren't worth doing for themselves, only the phat lewt they reward you with.

Amirite?

[katz]

But with a brew I can solo the NM I dont need other people to get what I want. I guess I can still go in solo and keep other 18 people waiting.
An example of why I dont like PUG groups is the first time I went to get RANI. The guy had an 18 man alliance formed mainly from PUG. 2 brews later he lost the mob to someone else who stole it from him. No win for 18 people and yet the solo player got the win.
I dont advocate either person. The first was crap at killing Rani and the second was a thf.

[Rearden]

If you are failing at something I can two box I will let you fail and take it for myself assuming it's worth my time. Rani generally isn't at this point, but if I saw you proc it and I get it right away it could be a new ring for someone in my shell, or I could sell it to the guy who failbrewed.

Ironclads are my favorite, free plates.

[katz]

two box solo player imo. Therefore not a group therefore no place in this game according to the new rules people keep telling me about solo play in this game.

[Doombringer]

katz.. you don't seem to be grasping that.. soloing as YOU described it earlier, isn't soloing. if you followed an organized group into the conflux, you're not soloing. you're crashing, and poaching. you wanna solo it, go in actually solo.

THAT'S why people have a problem with the way you "solo" WoE.

[katz]

And you are not getting my point. My point is if Im solo or if Im in another 10 man LS that doesnt fight the main boss, I can still lot on the drops despite your LS rules. What you all are asking for is an event arena where only your party can lot. I dont have a problem with your area your lot, I do have a problem with LS thinking just because they are in an area they are the only people who can lot. Make WOE both. A system where an Alliance leader can chose to make the event Alliance only at a higher gil rate than an event with a free lot system. This will entitle both sets of groups to enter and do the event however they chose to do it and still allow the soloists the right to enter.

PS I do go in solo only to be gate crashed by LS

[katz]

As a side point why a LS group would want to do the inferior weapons that coins support is beyond me. As a group your time would be better spent on getting the better weapons imo.

[Rearden]

The only WoE worth doing is Gun

[Francisco]

Waiting for Natrix to drop whatever is needed for my Emp to upgrade to 95.

[SNK]

Biggest problem I have with it is the zone wide lotting. If they did away with that then think more poeple might do it.

This seriously. I really am annoyed at random asses zoning in and taking currency from people. The zone needs to either be instanced or coins need to be limited to party/alliances.

[BorkBorkBork]

I hope its a system similar to assault where you can have multiple ppl in the same zone but have it exclusive to their party. They would also have to jack the coin purse drop rate way up if they are eliminating personal chests.

[Ravenmore]

And you are not getting my point. My point is if Im solo or if Im in another 10 man LS that doesnt fight the main boss, I can still lot on the drops despite your LS rules. What you all are asking for is an event arena where only your party can lot. I dont have a problem with your area your lot, I do have a problem with LS thinking just because they are in an area they are the only people who can lot. Make WOE both. A system where an Alliance leader can chose to make the event Alliance only at a higher gil rate than an event with a free lot system. This will entitle both sets of groups to enter and do the event however they chose to do it and still allow the soloists the right to enter.

PS I do go in solo only to be gate crashed by LS

This whole post is the reason SE is changing the event. Since abyssea is done they will have to add full emp. weapon upgrades some were. Its either going to be Void, new NMs in abyssea or WoEs. If its WoEs the harrassment free zone lotting would be massive. It was poor design from the start now they are fixing it.

[Esvedium]

The only WoE worth doing is Gun

Why would the WoE be worth doing when you can do Carabosse and CC parts in 2-3 days? Seriously the easiest empy path to finish and you're saying do the WoE version? o_Oa

[Rearden]

It's the only one you're not going to benefit from the ODD

[Zagen]

Why would the WoE be worth doing when you can do Carabosse and CC parts in 2-3 days? Seriously the easiest empy path to finish and you're saying do the WoE version? o_Oa
A group of say 5-6 people who know what they are doing can get 30 coins in a few hours.

[Francisco]

Why would the WoE be worth doing when you can do Carabosse and CC parts in 2-3 days? Seriously the easiest empy path to finish and you're saying do the WoE version? o_Oa

Probably because Wildfire is pretty much just as good from the WoE version - and it's pretty much regarded as a "brew" weapon skill.

If I had to choose between getting LS help for Verethragna or Ukon, I'd take those over the gun - and maybe solo the gun if people got tired of farming Empyreans after so long...

Related: Is the WoE bow or club worth a damn? I already have enough coins of decay...

I also have a ton of Glory Coins (like 20) - is there a better choice from katana/sword/g.axe?

[Sparthos]

Bow is the best option for RNG and comes pretty close to Gandiva given the ODD on ranged weapons is essentially wasted.

[BorkBorkBork]

Some Emphs can probably be done faster but not all of them. Also have to consider that as you do WoE your going to amass a pile of all the different types of coins "Looking at you Coins of Ruin", though with the elimination of personal chests this might change. Doing a emph for your main or favorite job isn't that hard but if you play a spread of different DD jobs WOE weps are a good secondary option. Basically it all comes down to what type of group you run with play time bla bla bla as to which option is best for you.

[Olor]

I don't understand the logic in doing things as a "soloist" in a massive multi-player online role playing game. Want it for an achievement of some sort? Cool then deal with it the way it works now, or works in the future but don't complain when a MMORPG doesn't cater to a "soloist"

the trouble is not everyone can get a group for the things they want and need - especially when they are just starting out. As a BST, for example, no one will take me on seal runs. I've asked and they say "do you have another job?"

Well when you've just started a new character and toiled all the way to 90 (it took me about 4 months cause I can't play non-stop) - it is pretty sucky to be told to go level a new job if you want to play with other people.

Then you are still stuck even if you do level another job because you can't afford to gear it properly/get spells for it/whatever and people don't necessarily want to help you.

Now, I am fairly lucky to have a nice LS - but still there isn't many of us and everyone has different goals, and people are often with pick up groups and stuff so - it isn't very often that people are able to put together a group for something they want out of LS mates. Add to that the fact that we aren't very pro (no one in the shell has an emp weapon for example) - and then it becomes clear that content that is designed for 18 people is really unfriendly to a LOT of the playerbase.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

"Solo'ist" got me 7 coin of decay in 2 runs as whm. I'm going to miss that, but I think the change is better.

[Rearden]

What content is designed for 18 people...?

Also, BST is a solo job, so I'm not sure what you expected but if you make a party of 4 people and you need 1x WHM, 1x BLM/BRD, 1xBLU or THF and 1xTank (Can be BLU, THF, MNK, NIN, etc) it's fairly easy to see that you don't exactly fit any of those aside from maybe THF, but Dipper can't proc additional TH so...

If you're a BST, you should have a WHM sub around 50, so just take that to 90 and 12 hours later you can get seals in pick ups.

[Olor]

If you're a BST, you should have a WHM sub around 50, so just take that to 90 and 12 hours later you can get seals in pick ups.

Sure, and I will pay for all those spells with my imaginary gil!

Anyway - someone asked why people would solo in an MMO - I replied by pointing out that people might want to put their effort into soloing because they can't find other people to do content with them (unless they say, level a job they don't want to play...)

Like if I wanted to be a whm... I probably would have leveled whm, not BST.

Anyway, I am leveling BLU for seal pick ups because at least I enjoy playing BLU.

That said, I can understand why people would want to solo, what with so many people out there demanding you play a job you don't want to play etc. in order to gear the job you do want to play.

I can understand WHY seal groups want people to be on those jobs (they don't want to waste their time or have 1 more person to share with/whatever) - but I also understand that someone who doesn't want to play by those rules might want to solo. And I generally agree with that person wanting to solo, and think there should be options for people to get things without having to bow to other people's rules.

/shrugs

[Zagen]

the trouble is not everyone can get a group for the things they want and need - especially when they are just starting out. As a BST, for example, no one will take me on seal runs. I've asked and they say "do you have another job?"
I joined a seal farming shout the other day that was led by a SMN. While the job has its uses but for seal farming it provides no real needed help, much like BST would. No one in the group questioned that the SMN went SMN to farm, we went with a NIN tank, BLM, and WHM to farm seals everyone got the seals they wanted and all were happy.

The difference between you and the SMN in my story is the SMN was the one shouting not asking to join a group, s/he took the role of leader (one few want myself included) and got the key jobs to farm seals with. If you don't have a "key" job then take the role of leader because most people don't want it, they are usually quite happy being your sheep(BST pun haha).


Well when you've just started a new character and toiled all the way to 90 (it took me about 4 months cause I can't play non-stop) - it is pretty sucky to be told to go level a new job if you want to play with other people
I created a character for my wife and its level 76 now with 85 limit atm. It took her 8 weeks or so to get to 76 through leeching my whisker farming parties. Keep in mind I also seal farm for jobs I've leveled, kill Sobek after farming KIs and work on random NMs as needed for drops or to help others in the LS so she wasn't grinding away 24/7 or anything remotely close to that.

Now I know what some will say about leeching being bad or how if you have 0 Cruor you can't shout and be the Key Person. Personal thoughts aside willingness to be a leader again means you prosper from it. If you're willing to take on the "leader" role you can get away with a lot such as getting 15-16 people to kill monsters and 1-2 key people. All while you reap the EXP and no one will complain because most people enjoy being sheep.



Then you are still stuck even if you do level another job because you can't afford to gear it properly/get spells for it/whatever and people don't necessarily want to help you.

If you do some research you'll find that 1 Cruor is worth 2.5 Gil. Since you're leading EXP runs and you have others opening boxes for you, you are profiting from all that Cruor. After a few runs you'll be at 70 so you can work on skill ups to take on Maat and you'll have a few hundred thousand Cruor saved up you can turn into Gil, before you know it you'll have over a million Gil to spend on gear.


Now, I am fairly lucky to have a nice LS - but still there isn't many of us and everyone has different goals, and people are often with pick up groups and stuff so - it isn't very often that people are able to put together a group for something they want out of LS mates. Add to that the fact that we aren't very pro (no one in the shell has an emp weapon for example) - and then it becomes clear that content that is designed for 18 people is really unfriendly to a LOT of the playerbase.

What content is designed for 18 people currently? Aside from Voidwatch possibly, not sure about that event yet I haven't checked it out.

TL : DR Having the guts to be the leader will get you very far in this game and any MMO.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

What content is designed for 18 people...?

Also, BST is a solo job, so I'm not sure what you expected but if you make a party of 4 people and you need 1x WHM, 1x BLM/BRD, 1xBLU or THF and 1xTank (Can be BLU, THF, MNK, NIN, etc) it's fairly easy to see that you don't exactly fit any of those aside from maybe THF, but Dipper can't proc additional TH so...

If you're a BST, you should have a WHM sub around 50, so just take that to 90 and 12 hours later you can get seals in pick ups.Bst is not a solo job, nin is not a tank. These are roles that have been forced upon them by the community. I for one never solo'd bst and leveled nin as DD with /drk.

[Olor]

TL : DR Having the guts to be the leader will get you very far in this game and any MMO.

Thanks, that was a nice post. I don't generally have trouble leveling up (it isn't difficult) - I do have limited playtime however, and would rather spend my limited time playing a job I want to play and gearing the job I want to play by playing that job - as opposed to leveling a job I don't want to play.

Luckily I do like playing BLU so leveling that doesn't bother me... but I still have a lot of sympathy for people who would rather solo than put up with the (oftentimes unreasonable) demands of others.

Also I agree with the above poster - It really is silly to pidgeonhole jobs when they can perform a lot of roles. BST can make a great tank - for example, for a party. It can also be DD, or support. It is a solid damage dealer with a meat shield that isn't an MP sponge. It does good things for a party.

[Cream_Soda]

Bst is not a solo job, nin is not a tank. These are roles that have been forced upon them by the community. I for one never solo'd bst and leveled nin as DD with /drk.
Too bad /war gives more dmg than /drk.

Not sure what you leveled it as, but certainly wasn't a DD. (at least a competent one)

[Rearden]

Gimps gon' gimp

[Doombringer]

Sure, and I will pay for all those spells with my imaginary gil!

Anyway - someone asked why people would solo in an MMO - I replied by pointing out that people might want to put their effort into soloing because they can't find other people to do content with them (unless they say, level a job they don't want to play...)

Like if I wanted to be a whm... I probably would have leveled whm, not BST.

Anyway, I am leveling BLU for seal pick ups because at least I enjoy playing BLU.

That said, I can understand why people would want to solo, what with so many people out there demanding you play a job you don't want to play etc. in order to gear the job you do want to play.

I can understand WHY seal groups want people to be on those jobs (they don't want to waste their time or have 1 more person to share with/whatever) - but I also understand that someone who doesn't want to play by those rules might want to solo. And I generally agree with that person wanting to solo, and think there should be options for people to get things without having to bow to other people's rules.

/shrugs

the issue isn't people soloing. the issue is what some people THINK is soloing. if people were actually soloing walk of echos then this change doesn't effect them.

the people complaining are the people who crash other groups WoE runs to steal drops, and try to justify it by calling it "soloing"


if people wanna ACTUALLY solo stuff, then they can go nuts with it for all i care.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

This animosity between endgame linkshells and leechers wouldn't be such an issue if the drops weren't so competitive to begin with.

Getting a Walk of Echoes weapon isn't supposed to be hard. It isn't supposed to involve sitting in Port Jeuno. Just look at the trials that follow WoE: kindred's crests and high kindred's crests. Most people have enough to complete those last two trials before even starting their first trial! It shouldn't require much more coordination among players than what we see in going after VNMs, for which there is a general lack of concern for jobs or tactics.

The main problem with WoE isn't the lotting system; lotting drama is just a symptom here. The main problem is that these are battlefields. They require the kind of coordination and dedication that only a committed group can provide. But individuals naturally aren't going to make that kind of commitment without some sort of return on their investment.

Trying to "fix" WoE by catering to these groups, however, won't get you anywhere. If you've assembled such a group, you're 95% of the way towards getting actual empyrean weapons, so why bother with WoE? Even with plans to allow groups to monopolize a battlefield and its drops, to "give them exactly what they're asking for," I don't see WoE becoming any more popular.

On the contrary, I see it making WoE even less popular. Perhaps its greatest appeal is its appearance of being a pick-up-and-go activity. Of course, we're here having this discussion because it's exactly the opposite, but the idea of being able to pay your fee and stroll on in is supposed to be an advantage over sitting in Jeuno dealing with /shouts for an hour. Locking such people out will just turn Walk of Echoes into what Dynamis was this time last year.

Groups can lay claim to areas in Limbus and Einherjar, too. How popular are those nowadays?

We're not talking about building relic or mythic weapons here. Again, looking at the so-called "trials" for level 85 and 90 weapons, it's not supposed to be grueling. What's breaking WoE is the fact to get weapon "A" you need to focus exclusively on battlefield "B," which all but requires "C" number of players with "D" job mix executing playbook tactic "E." And job mix "D" specifically doesn't include any jobs that can wield weapon "A" to begin with.

At worst, unlocking an empyrean weapon skill shouldn't be worse than unlocking a mythic weapon skill was back in Nyzul's heyday.

[Camate]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system


•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system


•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system


•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system


•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.Regardless of which ever it comes down to, you still need to retain the ability to allow people to still go in solo if they so chose.

[Cream_Soda]

2

2 is better over all, but I don't think it should be limited to once per day. It would be nice to choose who you can go in with though.

There is a huge problem when you organize a group to work together and a "solo" player comes in, doesn't participate in the strategy, which sometimes can risk the run. They come as a job combo that isn't designed to help the run itself but to abuse the point system so they can rank high and get their own chest and then lots everything that drops.


Walk of Echoes is supposed to be an easier alternative to Emp weapons, but as someone who completed both hand to hand weapons (WoE first and then Emp), the Emp actually took me less time to finish. (granted, the drop rates have improved since the time I did WoE, the main problem was all the unwanted players coming following us in and lotting drops because they didn't want to make a group of their own )

[Zumi]

I like this more.

(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

This is better not having to build a whole group just go on a WoE that people are already doing and get stuff. WoE would probably die off if its just once a day and have to shout for hours to form a group.

[Cream_Soda]

I like this more.

(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

This is better not having to build a whole group just go on a WoE that people are already doing and get stuff. WoE would probably die off if its just once a day and have to shout for hours to form a group.

Basically, leeching off of people. It's very rare for random ppl to just make a group right there at the gate. Most of the groups are organized via ls or shouting anyways, then you have the ppl who camp them and follow in right after.

[Zumi]

Basically, leeching off of people. It's very rare for random ppl to just make a group right there at the gate. Most of the groups are organized via ls or shouting anyways, then you have the ppl who camp them and follow in right after.

Exactly less effort needed on my part. Finished a few WoE weapons solo.

[Cream_Soda]

See, SE, perfect example.

Leechers looking for the opportunity to just run in on someone else's group, take 0 part in the organization of the group, and obtain hard earned spoils they would have not otherwise obtained (While the group entering could have easily beaten it w/o the "leech").

Need to set it up like assault, so the soloers can still go in and solo if they wish and the groups can enter w/o worry of randoms benefiting off of their organization and strategies.

[Zumi]

See, SE, perfect example.

Leechers looking for the opportunity to just run in on someone else's group, take 0 part in the organization of the group, and obtain hard earned spoils they would have not otherwise obtained (While the group entering could have easily beaten it w/o the "leech").

Need to set it up like assault, so the soloers can still go in and solo if they wish and the groups can enter w/o worry of randoms benefiting off of their organization and strategies.

Wouldn't call it leeching, I would call it helping clear the zone on my PLD/WHM and taking first place every time.

[Siiri]

2 please- the leeching of zones is probably the biggest deterrent to people doing walk of echos. Neither myself or any of my in game friends want to do an event where people can follow us and leech.

[Cream_Soda]

Wouldn't call it leeching, I would call it helping clear the zone on my PLD/WHM and taking first place every time.
I already covered this earlier

They come as a job combo that isn't designed to help the run itself but to abuse the point system so they can rank high and get their own chest and then lots everything that drops.
I like how you prove my point further with each post. Even if you want to call it "help" it's certainly not mutual benefit.

They can beat the run w/o you, they gain nothing and for your "help". You gain [insert drops here], based on their organization and strategy.

[Vazerus]

2

I think entering an "instanced" zone would be better for everyone involved. Allow it to be solo'd if people choose to solo.

Once per RL day is pretty bad; in a span of a week you could get a lot more done with an empy weapon in regards to time/reward. Ways of going about this:
1) Real instanced zone where x groups can enter y WoE zone at one time so no group is prevented from entering if they choose. This would allow once per GAME day entering at minimum; let people grind if they want to. This is the preferred choice, everyone will be happy imo.
2) One zone, x group lays claim to y zone, z group prevented from entering. If this is the case the cooldown to re-enter should be at least a couple game days to prevent monopolizing. This will just upset everyone, though, because people will still be pissed at soloers for wasting everyone else's time. This option is what is wrong with this game (time spawn nms you compete for, placeholder nms, being locked out of a particular zone because another group is in there); if I want to fight a certain monster or group of monsters, I should be allowed to. If this is the method chosen, I can gladly say I will not enter WoE for any reason, and most people would rather just work straight E weapons like they are now.

[Kavik]

2 - but with the stipulation that it's not every rl day, thats fine in places like dyna, but in WoE unless you make the zones drop 100 coins per area or something, it's really not going to be feasible.

[Fredjan]

I vote 2, but it should remain limited to once per game day like it currently is. Making it once per real-world day is kinda harsh for a 30-45 minute event that people currently mostly do for magian trial upgrades for empyrean weaponskills. I can't think of one person I know who currently does WoE for the armor rewards - that's mostly "bonus gil" to the people I know that actively do it. The stuff that's good from there is pretty cheap nowadays for most people to get, and for some other armor, there's better stuff around.

[CrystalWeapon]

2 and as said before once per rl day is a bit too long of a wait.

[Zaeon]

2, only option that's viable in my opinion.

[DebbieGibson]

2

because CS says so.

[Alienmonkey]

2

because CS says so.

[Bumbeen]

2

because CS says so.

[Khiinroye]

2, but with groups limited to once per game day, with the battlefield being instantly available to prevent monopolization.

[Doombringer]

2.

two..

to...

too....

tew!

[Sparthos]

2

The once/earth day seems kind of an old-school bottleneck. Why not once/vana day?

Simply allow mobs to drop coins/purses like currency flowed in old Dynamis, improve the lootpools, toss in the Magian trial items planned and cap it off as a once/hr system.

If we're getting more Confluxes, the overcrowding would solve itself when people are forced to retire for an hour while time passes.

[TimeMage]

2

A cooldown time less than a RL would be ideal, at the very least 20 hours so it could accomodate to delays etc on LS organizations, but the less the better. Other than that, leechers can hurry up and leech their weapons now, because hopefully 2 will the system from now on, looking at the current votes. You'll leech no more, hah!

[Tezz]

#2 & once per game day.

Also re-entry should only be limited to the flux you just did. We shouldn't have to wait to try out other fluxes.

[Antanias]

2, really got nothing else to add here :(

[Amoklauf]

2. Despite the fact that I currently can only realistically hope to do WoE solo, the open area system doesn't work out well. There's too much incentive to not cooperate and encourages some anti-social behaviour. I would have voted 1 if it included a list of counter-measures for the big sources of grief in WoE.

[katz]

Neither Do away with both systems and add the drops to abysea

[Mightyg]

2. but make it on a 18 hour cooldown so people can be flexible. keep it balanced for small parties.

[Orson]

#2 & once per game day.

Also re-entry should only be limited to the flux you just did. We shouldn't have to wait to try out other fluxes.
Agree with this. Definitely make the drops more common or take the total randomness out of coin drops. Better yet allow the coins to be traded and/or sold.

[Ravenmore]

I vote for option 2

[Dreamin]

2 ONLY if you going to allow for instanced so that multiple group/people can go in regardless of size. For example, most of the time when I go, I go in to solo #3 for coins (DNC/NIN). So I would hate for me (a solo'er) to go in and locking up the zone for an ally of 18 who would have to wait until 30min or whatever time duration that you're going to make it into, plus another 30min of zone cool down (the current cool down).

If that's not likely, then still with #1. Yeah, I hear and understand all the ppl's complaint about leechers. But would you want multiple solo'er to lock out the entire zone if the zone won't be instanced? Or would you rather take a chance with some leechers and pray your lot dont suck for that run?

Otherwise, get rid of WoE and put the coins drop off something else. And please do not make WoE an once a day thing unless you are going to:
1. Increase drop rate of coins significantly.
2. Allow for some mechanism of trading in coin with another coin that people are targetting. [Alternatively, instead of coins, make the mobs drop something that can then in turn be exchanged for coins that the end user can specifically seleccted. There's nothing more frustrating then needing 1 last coin of 1 type and only seeing and getting coins of other type.]

[Insaniac]

2

Once per game day. Once per earth day is no good. I'm assuming the once per real day limitation is to prevent people from being locked out by soloers and DBers. There's gotta be a better way to handle that than a 24 hour wait. Even if there isn't I would rather deal with being locked out of the solo zones than running our whole LS out there to do 1 run and leave.

[Suteru]

Why can't some areas be open access and some areas be reserved?

[Zirael]

2
And make final reward some points/tokens you can exchange for coins of your choosing. Getting 100 Coins of Ruin and barely anything else at the end of your 1 RL day run doesn't really help anyone. Also, make entry tickets accumulate if you don't go in every day, either acumulating infinitely or up to let's say 7, so that you don't have to organize the group every single day. Setting up a 30min run every day gets old fast, asking few friends to tag along and spamming 3-5 runs one evening sounds more bearable.
Hell, why not make the coins tradeable/bazaarable even, so people who get junk coins can sell them off or trade (hello Tarut Cards quest!). If I wanted an empy weaponskill, I'd ask a friend or two to team up and be done in a week with the real thing. Some lv80 versions are even soloable. WoE version can't be harder than that, considering it's inferior/placeholder.
As a side note: WoE version of Shield/Harp, that would be something to look forward to! :)

[Suirieko]

Personally, I'm split, but I'm still leaning toward the idea of #1, keeping it original.

If #2 wins, please for the love of God, make it once per vana'diel day.

Only reason why I like the idea of 'top 5 people getting chests' is those people put effort in the battle field, and not just being there to leech, (of course if the WoE battle IS won). If #1 win, there needs to be some kind of system that actually rewards those that did put effort into the battle, and not reward people that are just there to leech the pool.

All in all, regardless of whichever won, it should be soloable as ever.

[Cream_Soda]

Only reason why I like the idea of 'top 5 people getting chests' is those people put effort in the battle field, and not just being there to leech, (of course if the WoE battle IS won).
It's not related to leeching at all. It's related to who abuses the system most.

There are points for curing, points for taking dmg, magic dmg, phy dmg, enfeebling, etc.

You can go rdm/nin melee, buff yourself, feed mobs tp, spam nukes and only look out for yourself and contribute 0 to the actual run (we've actually had rdms that made it harder w/ joytoy spam feeding it tp) and rank themselves a top chest.

[Helel]

2 is good. I agree with once per real-life day as long as the coin drops are increased accordingly.

[kenshyn]

2

But I rather a tag system of some kind that regenerates at jp midnight or hopefully the drop rate will be up for the reduced entries.

[Phafi]

A mix,
have fluxes 1-3 or something be open for anyone, then 4-7 be reserved chambers or something to that nature

[Sargent]

2
The only thing that has been holding Linkshells back from doing this as an LS event has been other people just enterring the zone and lotting on the drops you've been working for. However, I think adding one Conflux to tailor to those without a group would be a good idea as well.

[Gnoir]

2 is my vote

[Yinnyth]

2

And if you're really going to restrict it to once per RL day, the new rewards better be really really shiny. Not this fake shiny "oh hey yeah, augged abjuration gear will be as good as empyrean armor +2 on HQ synergizes" BS we were fed 2 updates ago.

[Ravenmore]

What ever they decide to do its really nice to even give players a say on the content and closest this game has even seen to real time feed back.

[Gallus]

inb4 2 and everyone starts bitchin

[Francisco]

I think the best system to start with is #1 - to allow players to continue to do this solo or in small groups.

I suggest the following changes:

1: The player who first initiates the battlefield can select loot distribution rules and combat rules.

- The player can select to allow public lotting or lotting only by people in the alliance who defeated the monster. (This will prevent uninvited people from entering and casting lots without helping in any way.)

- The player can select to allow or disallow people outside of an alliance to assist on a claimed enemy. (This will prevent uninvited people from "tagging" a mob or "kill-stealing" to obtain lotting rights.)

2: Adjust the battlefields to encourage both "organized group" and "solo" play.

I will use Crabs as an example...

- Crabs will appear in six groups of 4-5.

» Damask Crab x2, Cyanic Crab x2, Caldera Crab x1
» Damask Crab x4, Caldera Crab x1
» Cyanic Crab x4, Caldera Crab x1
» Damask Crab x2, Cyanic Crab x2
» Damask Crab x4
» Cyanic Crab x4

- Pulling a Caldera Crab will cause the lesser mobs of it's group to assist it, but pulling smaller crabs will not cause the Caldera Crab to attack.

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs will occasionally repop if they are killed and assist the corresponding Caldera Crab if it is being attacked

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs become susceptible to Sleep, Bind and Gravity.

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs become able to be staggered. Staggering one of these enemies gives a small chance for everyone in the battlefield to receive a time extension, temporary items or a boost to attributes.

- Bosses will no longer "investigate" defeated enemies. Up to two Cyanic or Damask Crabs may still exhibit this behavior. Monsters exhibiting this behavior will only be aggressive to the alliance who defeated the original enemy while on their patrol.

3: Reward System

Again, I will use Crabs as an example...

- Cyanic and Damask Crabs will occasionally drop one or two coins.

- Caldera Crabs will drop two or three coins and one or two frayed pouches.

- Defeating a Caldera Crab will grant a Treasure Casket containing several items which can include Frayed Pouches, Dynamis Currency, Alexanderites, Empyrean Armor Upgrade Items, high level equipment and synthesis materials. Only the alliance which defeated the Caldera Crab may cast lots on these items.

- Defeating all three Caldera Crabs will grant a Treasure Casket. This casket will have unique rewards for each participant. Your reward will be determined based on your overall performance.

- Players may choose from two options to share unwanted treasure:
» Add to alliance treasure pool.
» Add to public treasure pool.

4: Grief tactics countermeasures.

- If a Caldera Crab is held by a player or group of players for a certain period of time without being significantly damaged, it will temporarily go into a rage mode.

- If a player dies or leaves the area when being attacked or chased by monsters, those monsters will despawn and reappear at their original location, unless someone else is on the hate list.

[larrymc]

2 - once per game day - mobs in instanced fights are still soloable.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

1

Yeah, I know, losing proposition, but I'd rather see what "reward revamps" look like before throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Speaking of, why not a modification of the Union system from campaign battle? Rather than showering rewards on people on an individual basis, let parties or alliances pool their points for a single loot pool, shared exclusively among them?

The modification I would make is restricting membership to such a WoE union to only people in the same party or alliance. This would let groups have their exclusivity without effectively locking out individuals from even participating in the battle.

As for the solo players who'd be locked out from joining such a union, crank up the drop rates of Ex items (/cough coins /cough). If they wanted frayed pouches or salable items (spells, equipment), they'd probably have to go through some sort of organizing process, but if they'd rather just grind through their magian trial on their own they'd at least have a realistic chance.

Or, for the sake of making implementation easier, enroll soloers into an "everybody else" union automatically.

[Alhanelem]

If it's supposed to be once per GAME day (as it is currently) then I vote for 2).

Otherwise, I vote 1), for one reason only.

only being able to enter once a day would stink. The rate of reward obtainment would have to be a LOT higher if it were limited to once a day.

if that once a day clause was removed, I would change my vote in an instant.

[Kirschy]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system


•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system


•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

2

I very much enjoy linkshell/group related activities. Free-for-all stuff like Campaign and Besieged while fun at times, rarely reaches it's potential. Being able to schedule events with a group of friends works out great. Bonus points if WoE is setup so that pickup groups can still enter and be rewarded.

I'd realli love to see some challenging WoE fluxes that involve strategy and team work. Granting rewards to people who have some mild success, and extra rewards for teams who can complete the event. I'm also largely in favor of rewarding the group and individuals. I'm strongly against additional rewards for performance. The jobs are not created equal, their roles are not equal, and all it does is stifle working together for a common goal. Reward a group for performance by completing a flux in 20 minutes, instead of using up the whole 30 minutes. Extra rewards like that force the group to learn new strategies and find ways to enhance their performance.

[AyinDygra]

(Most likely #1) My answer would depend on several factors.

The original open-access system is a fine concept. The problems I see are:

Distribution of Rewards and Monster Difficulty and Behavior Quirks:
The event was designed around rewarding personal contribution to the battle similar to Campaign (almost identical) which favors anyone who can survive a monster's assault until its death, deal lots of damage, heal their own damage, enfeeble the monster, etc. People who focus only on healing others, or only dealing damage, or only tanking (highly specialized roles) are penalized for performing their roles in strategies meant for large groups to take down extremely powerful foes. As a stand-alone feature, this has worked in Campaign (debatable). This is because several Campaign features are designed to allow this to work that are not present within WoE. These being: temporary items, NPCs that heal and raise people, NPCs and "targets" to help fight multiple enemies so they're not all focused on players, among others.

All of those Campaign features allow players to go in solo, fight monsters, and get rewards. Most solo players can't stand up to the bosses, but you don't really have to fight bosses (usually they're avoided unless you have an organized group). WoE's version of "Campaign Unions" essentially includes everyone in one big group.

The way rewards in WoE are handled runs contrary to the solo nature of this system because of the challenges faced within and the actions and choices required by participants. Most monsters in WoE have unusual hate and linking behaviors that require participants to be in groups to handle multiple monsters, and you can't even think of touching bosses on your own, so there's no chance of getting the chests from a full clear.

Identity Crisis
The devs have to decide if they want the Walk of Echoes event to be solo or group oriented and then design the content and reward system around that.

If it's supposed to be the solo method of obtaining the lesser-Empyrean weapons and a few nice pieces of gear on our own time, without needing a linkshell to coordinate schedules, something that can be done in short bursts...


Then the enemies must not have the special hate systems and linking potential that makes soloing nearly impossible in most battlefields of the event. Most of the rewards should be obtained from killing the non-boss enemies. Killing the bosses would still be required to progress with opening new battlefields (but a party of 6 random people on jobs that can normally solo the non-boss monsters in the battlefield should be able to defeat the bosses. For example, this means no spamming of highly damaging AoE attacks.)

It may be best to include a currency similar to Einherjar's Ampoules of Therion Ichor to reward participants from each kill based on their performance, similar to Bastion, to spend on items purchased from an NPC, which would remove much of the controversy surrounding the "drops" issue. People would attend on the jobs they currently bring to Campaign, fully expecting to be solo.

If it's a group oriented event that requires full linkshells with groups of tanks and healers and damage dealers all working at their peak performance to clear the different challenges, gathering at set times, rewarding their members for attendance or whatever other whims they may have...


Then the current monster setup is fine with the changes to the system listed in option #2. This way, groups could coordinate properly for the events and hand out rewards according to their own agreed upon systems (not that I think this is any more fair in some cases - I prefer in-game point systems if you hadn't guessed). Using the currency system of Einherjar would equally reward all participants in the battlefield for performing whatever role their group assigns to them for their strategy, not relying on arbitrary game code to reward each person for what the algorithm decides is worth whatever reward they get.

However, this would mean that it is no longer geared toward the casual obtaining of the lesser-Empyrean weapons. People may start treating WoE like Dynamis of old, and it will likely share many of its problems. Coins would have to drop much more freely, especially if entry is limited to once per real day (I think once per game day is fine.) These changes would make the event a hybrid of Dynamis/Einherjar.


With all that said, I'd prefer option number 1 (with associated changes) because I don't have an organized linkshell anymore that would devote itself to scheduled events of this sort. Abyssea decimated the one I was in, and the server merge finished it off. I think a lot of people are in my position, since most goals can be accomplished with small groups of 3-6 people these days - there isn't as high of a demand for big linkshells that can gather groups of 18+ at the same time on a regular basis.

[Kenthedeviant]

1

(1) Although SOME people do abuse the lotting system by leeching, or even worse IMO, people thinking they control the zone and make all the rules, HOWEVER, unless you increase droprates by 10,000%, the "entering once per RL day" is just absurd and will NEVER work. People will give up on WoE altogether, and never touch it again. Even with being able to spam it once per gameday, even as a trio, I would sometimes go 10 hours of spamming without getting a SINGLE COIN that I could use! If this is switched to once per RL day without DRAMATICALLY increasing droprates, then no one will EVER finish their weapons. Additionally, if we choose the second option, and it goes to being reserved, rather than instanced, solo players will constantly tie up the zone, preventing others from entering, so even attempting to get your coins will be the equivalent of beating a dead horse.

For the LOVE OF GOD, please do not make WoE worse than it already is... anyone who has worked their butt off for a WoE weapon already knows how awful the droprates already are, and if our ability to spam it multiple times per day is taken away or if they let someone else reserve it and lock us out goes through, then WoE will be completely dead for everyone.

[Catmato]

1
Most people seem to claim to want 2, but really want a 3rd option that wasn't offered.

[wolfshadow]

2
Whatever makes WoE more bearable than it is now would be grand

[Yinnyth]

1
Most people seem to claim to want 2, but really want a 3rd option that wasn't offered.

Even if it is once per RL day no matter what, I still pick 2. I picked 2 because I think 2 is the better choice. Afterwards I gave some additional suggestions, but even if I can't have my suggestions implemented, I still pick 2. Just because someone is not completely satisfied with choice 2 doesn't mean choice 1 is better for them. A vote is still a vote regardless of whether or not said voter is 100% satisfied with their choice for all time.

[Kogenta]

Please instance it like Nyzul Isle, Assault and Salvage, everyone has is own battlefield and can team up outside if they like. Everyone is happy.

[Yarly]

2, but not once per game day unless you can get ~24 runs worth of coins in one run.

[Kari]

@Camate, both systems suck.
I'd prefer #1 simply because it makes WoE a unique battlefield.
The other option turns it into, not only the SAME THING we have everywhere else in the game, but it also makes it extremely limited access so that people would do it even less than they do now.

So, yes, I'd prefer open-access. I'd love if you found an anti-leeching method, though. [Not that I have had this issue myself.]
Other than the extreme blandness of the second option, making it a whole real life day to re-enter makes it a terrible system.

[Cahlum]

2 but no one day limit

[Minsc]

Either option is fine, but the coin drop rate should be greatly increased or make a system (similar to Abyssea trophies) where you can exchange X item for specific coins. Also make it once a game day, not once a earth day. As others have said, it should not be harder to get a WoE weapon than to get a Emp weapon.

[Dragoy]

Though please do consider the rest of the post as well, as certain details would definitely change my mind towards (1).

Firstly, being able to enter solo is necessary.

Secondly, the 24 hour wait does not sound good, even if the drop-rates were tremendously increased. While I don't exactly like using lots of time into tedious things really, I did sort of like spending time at WoE, sometimes whole days even! So I really don't like a chance of doing a 30 minute run only once per 24 hours.
It's really not all about the drop-rates here too, I want to be able to spend my time with events like this, if I want to, instead of having to wait for such long times (Assault is a good example too).

Nevertheless, it would require the drop-rates to be quite massively increase indeed, which it already is crying for with the current system... It took so long for me and my friend to get a weapon done each, weeks I think?

While I understand that if it gets crowded, there could be massive congestion. But I'm quite sure it could be alleviated in a different way.

I would really like to get some more information before deciding on this.

While there are issues, I would miss some aspects of (1), if I will ever do it again. Number (2) is however quite clearly winning this as is now, so I'm just hoping it will be done right.

I would like to also thank you a lot for asking about the players' opinion about this directly. Need more this!

Big thumbs-up ! !! !



Now some personal experiences in general.

It's not really an easy choice, because I actually most of the time ended up teaming up with nice (Japanese) people while doing it duo/trio and sometimes would kill the bosses even with 5 or so characters only.

And if there already was a group in, no one seemingly had a problem with teaming up. No one was leeching really.

Sometimes I might find a player soloing, then if we'd attack the same monster, they'd start running around like a headless chicken... I don't understand that at all; killing stuff faster would have helped these players as well.

I'm not sure if it was due to the time we were doing it (mostly no one else there than us, or if there were, they were Japanese mostly).

Sometimes I'd get quite rude tells without saying or doing anything, just waiting outside, telling me I am not to follow them in. What the heck is that? I understand that they might have had bad experiences with leechers who really do naught but harm, but seriously, I was just staring at the screen, thinking if this person is serious. It felt so ridiculous, but oh well, that only happened once.

I'm not claiming the American are just worse, as I said, mostly there were no one else than the few of us, and if there were, it was mostly Japanese when they had the time to play. And we would just naturally team up, and I think this is how WoE was intended to be.

[Ladycandygem]

2 but ONLY if there are multiple instances on each zone, and if getting coins is much easier to compensate for the once a day entry and shorter time limit.

Would be horrible if the zone you wanted was always taken, as with things like Limbus and old Dynamis.

Would be nice too if it worked like Assault, in that if you didn't go for a few days you could do a few runs in a row.

I would definitely like it to be more lowman friendly. Currently it is pointless to go in without a full party, as you are unlikely to clear the zone, which means only getting 1 or 2 coins drop at best, and lotting against everyone else for them. Yet finding a full party of people that want to go with the jobs needed can be pretty tough.

As the WoE weapons are inferior to the Empy weapons, they should not be harder to obtain.

[Mighto]

2

Definitly 2.

[Xslayrx]

2, but more than 1 time per day.

[Andevom]

1) Because the moment you make this stuff reserved, you're going to have people who want to take control of their group, usually benefiting themselves more than others. They'll use the ultimate excuse of "Well I formed this group, so if you ever want a chance to get your coins, you'll do as I say" and things become too...businessy. It happened with Dynamis, it happens in Abyssea, it happens pretty much everywhere there are desirable drops that require a lot of members to get. WoE is an exception in that everyone has an equal chance, regardless of anyone else. Just revamp it so the coins aren't as hard to get.

Maybe every participant in the fight should (so long as they have engaged a target) get a chest at the end, and the higher up you are in rank, the more you get in your chest or the better your chances of getting coin pouches.

[Cream_Soda]

1) Because the moment you make this stuff reserved, you're going to have people who want to take control of their group, usually benefiting themselves more than others. They'll use the ultimate excuse of "Well I formed this group, so if you ever want a chance to get your coins, you'll do as I say"
And what part about that in WoE doesn't happen now?

When I shouted for pick up runs, I locked advancement coins. When I joined other people's shout groups, they locked the coin of their choice, etc.

Of course, you had no obligation to honor that, but lol someone lot what they're not supposed to, usually shunned by the group and of course never taken along again, so it still works even in shout groups.

Make the group, make the rules. I don't see how going 1 over 2 would come close to changing that

[Lushipur]

Opption 2.

[Andevom]

And what part about that in WoE doesn't happen now?

Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.

[Zagen]

Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.
That's true about Dynamis, BCNMs, Abyssea Seal/+2 NMs, etc. as well nothing but your morals bound you to respect rules set forth by the organizer.

[Cream_Soda]

Everyone can lot, anyone can enter. It's kind of hard to tell people they have to play by your set of rules when there's nothing to stop them from not. Again, it's not perfect the way it is now, but essentially making it like old Dynamis is just going to cause a different kind of monster.
Ok, so it's stopping people from leeching then? That your only complaint?

Because any organized group, even with the current system, whether you shout or go with a ls will have some sort of lotting system when they enter.

Just because randoms and lot on everything, doesn't mean everyone in the organized group does.

For example, i want coin of glory. I join a shout group and the leader has advancement locked. Some random comes in and lots on glory who wasn't part of the group and wins. That doesn't mean that I'm going to lot advancement now when that drops.

[Manque]

If it is indeed one day reset, is there a way for it to reset at NA or EU midnight (I know they would have to pick a timezone to do this)?

A lot of things in game are JP midnight reset. It would be nice to have an NA or EU reset time, no? Is there a reason things must be JST reset??

[wish12oz]

1
I don't like being forced to play with 16 gimps.

[Andevom]

Ok, so it's stopping people from leeching then? That your only complaint?

I never made this claim. Actually, the fact that it doesn't stop people form leeching IS a problem, which is why it needs some kind of incentive for people to actively participate (hence my suggestion of giving everyone a chest if they pull their weight). The current system stops people from creating a strict set of rules that causes a ton of people to have to wait longer to get their coins. Which is good; there's enough of this in other events.


Because any organized group, even with the current system, whether you shout or go with a ls will have some sort of lotting system when they enter.

Just because randoms and lot on everything, doesn't mean everyone in the organized group does.

My point is that this doesn't need to be heavily organized at all. It can be like campaign, where you just go and do it.


For example, i want coin of glory. I join a shout group and the leader has advancement locked. Some random comes in and lots on glory who wasn't part of the group and wins. That doesn't mean that I'm going to lot advancement now when that drops.

But see, under the current system, the leader can't lock in advancement to start with. And he shouldn't be able to anyway, really. I'm sorry, I'm in favor of people being able to enter the event and try their luck at getting the coins. Everyone's on equal footing going in that way. But the main issue is people who go in and leech. I don't think the solution to this is make it like Dynamis. It's too drastic.

So, going back to the campaign example, maybe you have it so people join something comparable to a union in WoE. You help out, you get access to the spoils. You sit around and leech, you get nothing. This was such a good reward system that hasn't been implemented anywhere else. I know that nothing like this is being proposed at the moment (option 1 is the closest), but with some tweaking to the system, you can easily make it so leechers don't benefit as much.

[Jerynh]

When I did WoE, nobody shouted for groups, no LS's came in and did a zone, it was thrown together groups. The majority did the slime one, sometimes the crabs or ants when it wasn't available. I met very few bad apples in my time. Almost everyone who came in joined up with the mash-up of people already in, did their part, and reaped the benefits. Nobody I saw literally just went in, sat there, and lotted at the end. Thats the worst way to get coins. The best way is to fight for one of the top 5 slots. I vote keep it the way it is, and progress from there. I don't have a lot of friends on the game, I'd like to be able to keep joining up with randoms easily if for whatever reason I need to go back in there.

[Sparthos]

The reason why the old system doesn't work is because of the leeching mentality and because the drops are pure garbage compared to Abyssea. Even @80, most of the Walk drops were either directly in competition with Vision drops or were minor sidegrades.

Reservation gives pick up groups and linkshells the ability to bring into the run who they want and work out distribution the way they see fit without distractions from lone wolves.

The problems with current WoE is multi-faceted and in need of significant adjustment. Monsters need to be susceptible to enfeebles like Sleep, Bind and Gravity, boss monsters need to stop randomly patrolling unless they follow obvious patterns and coins need to be equivalent to old-Dynamis currency in frequency of drop rates.

Reservation beats randomly smashing together people every time. If you're planning a run of randoms, I don't see why you simply cannot reserve the chamber and do what you do now.

[svengalis]

Give us abyssea buff npc in woe and it solves everyone's problems.

[Cream_Soda]

My point is that this doesn't need to be heavily organized at all. It can be like campaign, where you just go and do it.
For farming single mobs? Sure

For clearing runs, definitely not.

[Airget]

Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system


•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system


•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

How about option 3 lol. What's disaspointing about WoE is how dull it is. I"m pretty sure there are a lot of open areas in WoE to play around with so why not make it more like Sea and Sky and less like Limbus/Assault.

What if you had mobs carrying memory fragments that are used to enter certain battlefields and we act more like cleaners. Basically each mob type can drop a variety of memories and obtaining certain memories unlocks battlefields and upon completing certain battlefields we unlock more areas. Now to make things easier you could create two ways to recieve memories.
Option 1: defeating mobs has a chance to drop memories
Option 2: You complete Cleaning operation to obtain points which can be turned in for certain memories (Think of it as killing a certain amount of foes would build up into a specific memory but there is a chance that certain mobs hold a potent memory fragment)

So basically you create an opportunity for team play in cleaning up the area since the kill would be counted for everyone in party.

Now the zone itself would start with 3 areas maybe each path would be specified for the job type at first, Light/Leather/Heavy armor. then the branches start to specialize more and create more unique wide range of gear as well as opportunity to obtain unique JT/JA and possibly spells that can be used.

The problem i see with the two options is they don't make use of the zone and kind of neglect what the players actually want. The first option just makes it the same which in itself was pretty dull 6- battlefields that used the same mob types that really made no sense as to why this was considered WoE. Now the new option is to make it like Limbus with dynamis like downtime of 1 rl day.

IMO I think people would rather see something like Sky/Sea. Now what works with the idea I'm proposing is that the mobs in question would be able to drop the coins that people use for magian trials so in the same sense as dynamis you could lower the coin drop rate but people would be able to farm the coins non stop if they wanted to rather then waiting a few minutes in between each WoE as it stands now.

Also with this change you could make the coins tradeable creating a new market for bazaaring that may pickup.

Overall though I'd just like to see more life in the WoE concept why can't there be a story behind it where Atomos has pulled us into the dimension since he needs help cleaning out the distortion of time and space in him. In order to to that you need to obtain memories that mobs are holding onto however if you do ops you are able to "gather" the memory particles the mobs have and turn it into a usable memory fragment.

With those memory fragments you unlock battlefields that face you off against iconic XI NPCs ranging from Zeid to Prishe herself but instead of Zeid and Prishe as we know them we may be facing off a Monk version of Zeid and a Dark knight version of Prishe. With this slight augments to them they carry a memory crystal which can be exchanged to Atomos to obtain new JT and JA that can be used for certain jobs but each Crystal would offer at least 1 thing for every job.

If WoE was made like this it would offer a huge amount of play time as well as a nice option to allow players to customize their jobs to be slightly more unique. I just don't see option 1 or 2 working at all to be honest and I hope the development will take a serious look into the above idea and see the potential fun that can be found through using WoE in this concept rather then another Assault/Limbus area.

[SNK]

2

2 is better over all, but I don't think it should be limited to once per day. It would be nice to choose who you can go in with though.

There is a huge problem when you organize a group to work together and a "solo" player comes in, doesn't participate in the strategy, which sometimes can risk the run. They come as a job combo that isn't designed to help the run itself but to abuse the point system so they can rank high and get their own chest and then lots everything that drops.


Walk of Echoes is supposed to be an easier alternative to Emp weapons, but as someone who completed both hand to hand weapons (WoE first and then Emp), the Emp actually took me less time to finish. (granted, the drop rates have improved since the time I did WoE, the main problem was all the unwanted players coming following us in and lotting drops because they didn't want to make a group of their own )

This in a nutshell. If anything the monsters you're killing should be only able to be killed by that party and treasure should not be lottable by people outside of that party.

I've pretty much dropped WoE on the whole because of selfish douches walking in and solo taking coins.

[Eldelphia]

2.

I'd be more in favour of a tag/permit system but if it's once per day make it JP midnight and possible to hold a KI so that groups can do 2 runs in one session. Which makes it worthwhile as an ls event.

Loot allocation has to change. What stopped us going as a group was the unfairness of the loot distribution system but it has already been mentioned that that is changing.

I don't think Fran's ideas are bad actually but as an ls leader I'd rather just have another event I can schedule to help people in the shell. If we're locked to once or twice per day it needs to be instanced and there needs to be more coins available than currently from each run. If you need to, deliver treasure in waves... so for example after defeating a Crab boss, have one treasure chest drop rather than waiting until the end. I understand entirely if you want to limit what drops in there but perhaps put a few coins in a chest/pool after each wave and then but the gear/pouches in a final chest.

I'd rather WoE was available every game day but if not, then I'd rather have it closed and once a real life day than open.

[Olor]

I vote for 1 because I hate only being able to do an event once a day. The way I like to do something is say "okay I am doing X today" and then I spend the whole day doing that - not just 30 mins or whatever.

Also I think there are better ways to stop people from leeching that don't either

a) make it so if you want to solo you lock the rest of your server out of the zone
b) make it impossible to solo

Soloers should be able to do the event too, and I don't see that working with a reservation system.

[Kenthedeviant]

Reservation gives pick up groups and linkshells the ability to bring into the run who they want and work out distribution the way they see fit without distractions from lone wolves.

Reservation beats randomly smashing together people every time. If you're planning a run of randoms, I don't see why you simply cannot reserve the chamber and do what you do now.

Great idea! until YOU and your ls wants to enter and various solo players keep reserving it and locking you out... Preventing you from even having a chance to enter. Yeah, accomplishes a lot, huh? The other reason you wont be able to "do what you do now" is that if we're only able to enter once per RL day if option 2 goes though, then we wont be able to spam it like we do now. WoE is hard enough as is, and if we can only enter once per day, solo/duo/trio options will basically be eliminated entirely, because a solo player cannot accomplish squat in a mere 30 minutes per day in WoE (despite what a lot of delusional players may think).

[Kimble]

Why not just keep it as it is but instead of the top 5 getting a chest, make it like Voidwatch where everyone gets their own personal chest for clearing the zone? Can still keep the loot pool from regular mobs the same.

[Ravenmore]

I vote for 1 because I hate only being able to do an event once a day. The way I like to do something is say "okay I am doing X today" and then I spend the whole day doing that - not just 30 mins or whatever.

Also I think there are better ways to stop people from leeching that don't either

a) make it so if you want to solo you lock the rest of your server out of the zone
b) make it impossible to solo

Soloers should be able to do the event too, and I don't see that working with a reservation system.

I think your not getting what soloer means in this event, 90% of the time the soloers are stalking a LS or 2 and crashing the LS runs. Now if a LS shows up and enter after a true soloer had already went in and been farming for a bit but before the 50% cut off then they get what they get what they get.

[Yinnyth]

Soloers should be able to do the event too, and I don't see that working with a reservation system.

By "do the event" do you mean "obtain top tier loot"? I mean stuff on par with empyrean gear? If that's what you mean, then I have to disagree. If you mean that they should be able to enter solo and slowly work towards their goals without relying on the help of others, then I agree. I don't think that everything in the game should require a group. There should be easier (but still meaningful) goals that people can reach by themselves, and harder(but proportionally rewarding) goals they can reach with the help of others.

But I don't believe anyone should be able to advance in the game while riding on the coat-tails of an organized group that doesn't even want them there. Because you know what's worse than not being able to do something on your own? Doing all the work and having some random tard show up, make it harder for you to succeed, and then get an equal chance at the loot he did NOTHING for. It doesn't just ruin your day, it ruins the day for you and the 12 friends you organized to get a fake empyrean for complete strangers.

It is my opinion that WoE was the single most exploitable event ever made in FFXI. It's as though SE one day said "Yeah, kill stealing is neat, but is there some way we could actually make strangers capable of stealing loot out of the loot pool they did absolutely nothing to help produce? Because that would be awesome!" On a similar note, I dislike the loot pool system for campaign, but that's a topic for another thread.

[Jacs]

I think your not getting what soloer means in this event, 90% of the time the soloers are stalking a LS or 2 and crashing the LS runs. Now if a LS shows up and enter after a true soloer had already went in and been farming for a bit but before the 50% cut off then they get what they get what they get.

That just isn't fair or true. Maybe on your server but not on mine. Much more common on my server is a whole load of just random people coming to solo. You see LS groups very rarely.

The biggest problem with WOE is the open loot pool. You could solve a bunch of the problems in WOE just by clearing that up Random people screwing up your strategy isn't quite as much a problem. My play schedule is sporadic and often for only an hour at a time, so I can't always organize a group. Hopefully SE makes this thing instanced, otherwise its going to be a lot of single people locking up zones, which is going to be a massive problem too.

[Kristal]

1

I don't understand why people are climbing the walls to have this changed so dramatically.
It took me about two-three weeks to finish 2 WoE weapons and enough stray coins from personal chests to make 3 more. 5 if you count the coins of ruin that dropped, since those only get used to make the lolmelee staff.
And all that with whatever random pickup parties were doing flux #2, and the occasional solo/duo on #1/#3.

If I'd change anything, it's changing the global drops to alliance drops. Possibly spawn a chest for all active players on zone clear based on performance and enemy kills.

[Rezeak]

2 with same kind of time restrictions assault would have (basically u can do 7 a week if that be 4 in one day and 3 another or just once a day)

I would like a system were 1 would work but SE u fail in making a balanced reward system

[Ravenmore]

That just isn't fair or true. Maybe on your server but not on mine. Much more common on my server is a whole load of just random people coming to solo. You see LS groups very rarely.

The biggest problem with WOE is the open loot pool. You could solve a bunch of the problems in WOE just by clearing that up Random people screwing up your strategy isn't quite as much a problem. My play schedule is sporadic and often for only an hour at a time, so I can't always organize a group. Hopefully SE makes this thing instanced, otherwise its going to be a lot of single people locking up zones, which is going to be a massive problem too.

Nope this is why LSs stop bothing to do it after the first couple of weeks. As soon as they said it would work like campaign for personal chest peoplle knew what to do and what job to go on to lock in a chest.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Why do people think that the lotting rules alone are what is chasing away endgame linkshells? Why would any group capable of dominating any WoE battlefield not instead spend their time dominating Abyssea bosses for the sake of actual empyrean weapons?

Again, why do people feel that WoE will magically become more popular than Limbus and Einherjar?

[Zagen]

Why do people think that the lotting rules alone are what is chasing away endgame linkshells? Why would any group capable of dominating any WoE battlefield not instead spend their time dominating Abyssea bosses for the sake of actual empyrean weapons?

Again, why do people feel that WoE will magically become more popular than Limbus and Einherjar?

WoE takes a few hours to "dominate" with a group of 6 people Empyreans take weeks to months with that same group assuming more than 1 or 2 people are getting empyreans out of it. To many people WoE versions are good enough. WoE gun/h2h are good enough for me personally because those jobs aren't ones I'm passionate about but still play them as needed.

Well the gun is for brewing.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

WoE takes a few hours to "dominate" with a group of 6 people Empyreans take weeks to months with that same group assuming more than 1 or 2 people are getting empyreans out of it.

If the time requirement is really that drastically shorter for WoE weapons, wouldn't it still be far shorter even if one is dealing with leeching? Or is the emotional impact of all this overriding logic?

[Zagen]

If the time requirement is really that drastically shorter for WoE weapons, wouldn't it still be far shorter even if one is dealing with leeching? Or is the emotional impact of all this overriding logic?
Not when it requires ranking and clearing the zone. When a group enters without a "soloer" they can focus on clearing the zone the fastest way possible for a given zone instead of focusing on getting points to ensure one of the top chests because a PLD, BLU, RDM, or COR showed up to exploit the ranking system and your group's victory.

Edit: As a BST/SCH who plays more support with a group of SMNs and BSTs I generally ranked 1st, or 3rd. When 2 PLD/DNC leechers showed up one run I didn't rank at all. Those leechers also lotted all coins/pouches further delaying the group's goal, mind you a group who didn't need help from the soloers.

[Cream_Soda]

If the time requirement is really that drastically shorter for WoE weapons, wouldn't it still be far shorter even if one is dealing with leeching? Or is the emotional impact of all this overriding logic?
Due to the number of leeches I had, WoE actually took me LONGER than my actual Emp. (Did rev fists+2 then I did Vereth).

I had 27 coins, needed 3 more. Those 3 coins alone took about 2 weeks. I had set up a shout run and one of my members were there for coin of glory. Someone joins in half way through the run. A pouch of glory drops and they ask to get solo lot on it because they were at 25/30. Of course, we said no. They came in, racked up as much points as they could and got a chest, didn't rly help w/ the run at all.

So after that, every time I did a run here she was or her friends. She'd come with 4-6 friends at a time and they'd all spam lot coin of advancement. literally took almost 2 weeks to get my last 3 coins.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

On a similar note, I dislike the loot pool system for campaign, but that's a topic for another thread.


Actually, the "success" of Unions is probably how we got into this mess to begin with. Nobody rationally goes into one expecting to get any Dynamis currency (let alone a meaningful amount), nobody really wanted Sidhe weapons even when they first came out, but everyone will sign up because free vendor trash with EXP is better than EXP alone. S-E looked at that how frequently people signed up for Unions, considered it a success, and implemented it as an endgame activity.

And then they were surprised when people left Campaign for greener EXP pastures. "Don't they know they can get Dynamis currency?" they're probably still asking themselves.

[Korpg]

2.

<insert PS2 bashing comment here>

[Tenshiangel]

1

(1)Original open-access system

Definitely has my vote, because I hate the idea of once per real-world day. And I can see people monopolizing an area if it is reserved.

[Seriha]

1.


(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

As you've no doubt seen, people will grumble about leeches. The main problem with the current system, however, is the encouragement for cooperation with anyone outside of your group is minimal. In fact, once get past 5 bodies, anyone else just plain becomes competition. Multiply with this how drops pan out, in either scarcity or randomness, and it's no surprise some would rather take the shut-in approach of reserved battlefields. Unfortunately, all this does is hurt players who are either not part of a large enough linkshell (interesting in even doing WoE) or can't align enough bodies from their friend's list of the proper jobs and times to make things work.

Overall, the most elegant solution I've seen regarding WoE is to make the event function more like Einherjar in having a specific currency everyone in the field earns with each mob defeat and clear of the chamber. From here, you can situate an NPC in the lobby who will take this currency in exchange for coins, equipment, and possibly future items. With the advent of Synergy upgrading old gear, being able to purchase abjurations is also something people out there would like to see, be it the Zilart or Einherjar equivalents.

Maintain the lock of entry when the field exceeds 50% clear status, yes, but ultimately the fear of leeching diminishes aside from the random oddball deliberately messing with another group. From there, scrap the chest ranking and instead make the win work more like Voidwatch in which everyone is entitled to loot, perhaps not so harshly scaled on a variety of parameters like now. Ideally those more active should get rewarded better, yes, but let's face it, not everyone is of equal skill or gear, and creating a system where only the haves can continue to have while the have-nots wallow in squalor isn't exactly the most enticing of systems.

Actual trial difficulty can pretty much remain as is as long as players feel they can make steady progress (points toward buying their wanted coins) with active participation granting further chances to faster progress (dropped coins/pouches). Changing the event to a one per RL day is not in its best interest, especially when it comes to soloists looking to chip away at a weapon here and there. It is also possible that future trials could involve NM kills in new confluxes, so being stuck at once per day will strike people as an artificial roadblock when they could otherwise kill said mob at their leisure as often as possible.

If I can only stress one thing to the devs despite all of the above, it is to expect people to greedy. With that comes all sorts of unbecoming behavior for those who feel they're more deserving and are willing to not play nice with others with a genuine lack of consequence. Whatever system they choose, minimizing grief tactics should be a priority.

[katz]

if your going with 2 make it 1 per week.

[Korpg]

if your going with 2 make it 1 per week.

Why? Wouldn't that make the situation worse if you can't enter in more than 1 time per week?

[SNK]

Just get rid of people who can leech. Peroid.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Just get rid of people who can leech. Peroid.But then I can't get more coins I'm not using for free during JP primetime. ; ;

[scaevola]

1

The only reason to go after the Emp-WS-only weapons rather than a full-on Empyrean is that you can make progress through the later stages solo. Close off solo access to WoE and there's really no point in even bothering with it. WoE attracts soloers because it is easy; there's no need for a reservation system because it's not hard enough to require anything close to a genuinely organized group. There may have been some traction to the idea of soloers "stealing" ranking at level 80, but now if a soloer beats one of your party members in ranking it's your own fault for thinking you needed more than 3 people to begin with.

I am currently 10-15 coins deep on four different weapons, and I have only once encountered a group larger than 2 people in WoE. That was 4. People who complain about "leeches" are really complaining about people like me: soloers perfectly capable of killing mobs for coins who would themselves would prefer that they could do so alone and in peace. All that's really going on here is that people want coins and see this as an opportunity to force out competition with every bit as much of a right to those coins as they have.

At any rate, I'm not going to stop working on my WoE weapons either way so everybody voting 2 can look forward to being locked out of WoE forever by a succession of me and all the soloing DNC and NIN friends I've made along the way~

[Vazerus]

What is stopping you from soloing an "assault-style reservation" battlefield, unless they make it a requirement to have 2+ people?

[Doombringer]

um no actually... i'm complaining about leeches because my linkshell does WoE with a full party and actually clears the zone.

then one of the "soloers" (read: leech) shows up to "help" (read:leech) and does nothing but force us to go again. (of course once leeches show up i always vote we immediately leave. yes it's cutting the nose to spite the face but if we all did it maybe they'd give up trying to leech)

[Cream_Soda]

People who complain about "leeches" are really complaining about people like me: soloers perfectly capable of killing mobs for coins who would themselves would prefer that they could do so alone and in peace.
You couldn't be any more wrong.

I have no problem with people who want to do that.

I simply wait for them to finish and go while it's cooling down.

I've even offered for "soloers" to go first if they want to go and it usually ends with a stand off and them not entering until we do, waiting specifically for our run.

I have no problem with soloers. I do have problems with people who go out of their way to try to get into our run

[InfamousDS]

1

Base it on monster HP and standard Alliance drops. Once per Earth day is idiotic. Zone-wide lotting is good idea, but humanity being what we are... well, the negativity led to this topic. Voidwatch-like chest system, using a Campaign-like ranking to determine breadth of rewards. That way, groups who try to clear: can. Everyone in the zone stands to gain, leechers can't "ninja" coins from the alliance unless they are top-tier DD, and soloers can hang out in a corner while the alliance clears the zone. While you are at it, remove the Ex tag to make coins trade-able to reduce competition over-all. Nobody is excluded using this system, as the chests don't divide into 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and give the exact same loot based on point tiers.

I.E.
DNC/sam attacks Mob A and holds it while dealing moderate DoT.
Alliance enters area, walks past the Soloer and proceeds to clear the area.
DNC/sam kills his first mob, pulls another, repeats.
Win.
DNC/sam accumulated 400 points, and his reward is 2 pouches. (Average)
Alliance Leader gets 900 points, he acquires 3 items and 3 pouches. (Top Tier)
Remaining members vary between 200 and 700 points, getting 1 Item for the 200s and up to 5 drops for the 700s.
Everyone trades the coins they acquired (and don't need) to the DNC, who gives them (in return) the coins he didn't need.
Peace is acquired!

[katz]

Just make the whole one single player. No alliances allowed. Soon make people realize other solo players have the right to play the zone too. I reallly dont understand the mentality of 1 player vs many and they many moan that the single player "stole" stuff from them. The whole point of the zone is so that the coins drop for anyone. Make it so the good players ie the soloists can get more, then the leeching LS people get less. Seems much fairer to the soloist who can.

[scaevola]

What is stopping you from soloing an "assault-style reservation" battlefield, unless they make it a requirement to have 2+ people?

Nothing at all, but if WoE is constantly reserved by a succession of soloers who don't want or need to compete with anyone else for the coin drops, people voting 2 might reevaluate their stance.

EDIT: Oh, I understand what you're saying. Instanced WoE would be totally fine; if coin droprates were increased I could even get behind a once-per-RL-day lockout.


um no actually... i'm complaining about leeches because my linkshell does WoE with a full party and actually clears the zone.


Then if my experience with people who actually do WoE serves as a model, you are in the extreme minority because most people capable of fielding a party to farm a weapon with an Empyrean weapon skill are smart enough to realize it's quicker, simpler, and MUCH more rewarding to make an actual Empyrean weapon.

[Cream_Soda]

lol, I like how you completely skipped over what I said.

[Rearden]

lol, I like how you completely skipped over what I said.

I like this quote more:

Make it so the good players ie the soloists can get more, then the leeching LS people get less. Seems much fairer to the soloist who can.

[scaevola]

lol, I like how you completely skipped over what I said.


What is there to say to it? If you're bringing so many people to WoE that you can't accommodate a random soloer ranking, you're wasting time when you could using that manpower to make an Empyrean instead. Your poor resource management skills are not a reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Personally, I think the best solution would be to do away with this silly ranking system entirely and give everybody the loot, but that's apparently not on the table, so.

[Cream_Soda]

What is there to say to it? If you're bringing so many people to WoE that you can't accommodate a random soloer ranking, you're bringing too many people anyway. The solution is to stop wasting your friends' time and go with fewer, not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Not really, I always go with the lowest number of people to safely do the run. That being said, if it's people I know who are capable of doing their jobs well, we clear #2 with three people. If I'm shouting for pick up people and don't know their competency and skill levels, I go with 5 for safety.

In the 3 man runs, rly don't care about ranking everyone ranks, but they're still lotting drops from boss mobs they are unable to solo on their own, not just the monsters they can kill solo and also lotting drops from the ending chest, which they would not have ever seen without the group in there.




Either way you look at it, my point still stands. We shouldn't have to accommodate for a "soloist" if he wants to solo so bad, then why doesn't he actually just solo then?

Again, we have no problems with waiting for them if they want to go first, the point is they sit there and specifically wait for you to go in. That is leeching.


People who complain about "leeches" are really complaining about people like me: soloers perfectly capable of killing mobs for coins who would themselves would prefer that they could do so alone and in peace.



So, again, exactly what you skipped out on. My response is that if someone "prefers" to solo, why do they specifically wait for a group to go in to follow? Because they want more drops than they are capable of soloing on their own.

[Cream_Soda]

you're wasting time when you could using that manpower to make an Empyrean instead.
Whether or not it's a waste of time, the point still stands. The people I'm calling leechers are the ones who specifically wait for groups to enter just to follow them. Not to be confused with people who do go in on their own and actually solo, without trying to gain the spoils of w/e group that has entered.

[scaevola]

Not really, I always go with the lowest number of people to safely do the run. That being said, if it's people I know who are capable of doing their jobs well, we clear #2 with three people.

Then the "leecher" can only help you complete the run faster. Don't tell me you're upset because you have to lot against him on the 2 or 3 coins that might drop over the course of the run when you're capable of finishing the run for purses.


If I'm shouting for pick up people and don't know their competency and skill levels, I go with 5 for safety.

Then go with 4, and you'll never have this problem again.


In the 3 man runs, rly don't care about ranking everyone ranks, but they're still lotting drops from boss mobs they are unable to solo on their own, not just the monsters they can kill solo and also lotting drops from the ending chest, which they would not have ever seen without the group in there.

So sometimes leeches win semi-worthless boss drops from easy events (that are tagged rare anyway) that you can spam once an hour with no restrictions. Clearly grounds to restrict access for everybody via a reservation system.





Either way you look at it, my point still stands. We shouldn't have to accommodate for a "soloist" if he wants to solo so bad, then why doesn't he actually just solo then?

Nor should the soloist have to accommodate you. He's playing by the rules in your scenario and he would most certainly be soloing if you weren't there, horning in on his only viable path to an Empyrean weapon skill. If this offends you, you are free to pursue your Empyrean weapon skill by farming amber lights like a person who values his time and leave the soloer to mind his own business.


Again, we have no problems with waiting for them if they want to go first, the point is they sit there and specifically wait for you to go in. That is leeching.

If you're talking about confluxes 1 and 3, which are the easiest confluxes and the only ones most in which most soloers can effectively operate, well, you basically took his mobs and have zero sympathy from me when you could have just gone to a different flux.

And you're almost certainly talking about 1 and 3, because you're complaining that people do this to you.


Whether or not it's a waste of time, the point still stands. The people I'm calling leechers are the ones who specifically wait for groups to enter just to follow them. Not to be confused with people who do go in on their own and actually solo, without trying to gain the spoils of w/e group that has entered.

1) the point does not stand if grouping in woe is a waste of time, because if it's a waste of time it means you're playing the game wrong

2) if you enter conflux 1 or 3 in particular as a group you cannot be offended when solo players enter after you, because they have no other options. you could always go to a different conflux, but you specifically choose the easiest ones because they are, well, the easiest.

3) if your group is in conflux 3 and i am ready to go, you had better be damn sure i will be zoning in to 3, fighting mobs, and lotting on every coin that drops. what is my alternative?

[Cream_Soda]

Then the "leecher" can only help you complete the run faster. Don't tell me you're upset because you have to lot against him on the 2 or 3 coins that might drop over the course of the run when you're capable of finishing the run for purses.Complete the run faster so you can afk longer while you wait for the next game day to get another coin? You still have to wait to do the next run, I don't see how completing the run a little bit faster at the exchange of a lower chance at the spoils is going to help.


Then go with 4, and you'll never have this problem again.Multiple leechers


So sometimes leeches win semi-worthless boss drops from easy events (that are tagged rare anyway) that you can spam once an hour with no restrictions. Clearly grounds to restrict access for everybody via a reservation system.I said it should be like assault, how would this restrict anyone? If they still want to solo, they can solo and not have to wait for anyone and nobody would have to wait for them.


Nor should the soloist have to accommodate you. He's playing by the rules in your scenario and he would most certainly be soloing if you weren't there, horning in on his only viable path to an Empyrean weapon skill. If this offends you, you are free to pursue your Empyrean weapon skill by farming amber lights like a person who values his time and leave the soloer to mind his own business. You still don't understand. My point is they're leechers because they specifically target runs a group enters. Even if they would do a run by themselves while you aren't there. The fact they won't do it while you're there, even if given the opportunity to go first is what makes them leechers. They go specifically to benefit from the work of the group. Those are the people I'm calling leechers.


Go do a conflux he can't enter if it bothers you that much. Hint: he can enter 1, 2, and 3, lazybones. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what conflux is open to a group that is not open to solo players? I'm pretty sure anybody can enter any conflux. I've done them all at least once and I haven't had a single conflux where leechers were unable to enter.



But, to quote you again

People who complain about "leeches" are really complaining about people like me: soloers perfectly capable of killing mobs for coins who would themselves would prefer that they could do so alone and in peace.




How do you claim that people who specifically follow a group in would prefer to solo?

[scaevola]

If somebody is really that hell-bent on following you around and not contributing, Conflux 4 or 6 a few times might convince them to find a new hobby.

[Sparthos]

If somebody is really that hell-bent on following you around and not contributing, Conflux 6 a few times might convince them to find a new hobby.

Flux 6 also has some of the worst rewards of the upper tier walks and the hardest bosses.

Not a fan of cutting my nose to spite my face.

[scaevola]

Maybe, but 4 is even more AoE-tastic and has Slither Gloves, which are still one of the bigger-ticket items out of WoE.

At any rate, if a group's going to go the easy route and pick on poor, defenseless crabs and jellies, dealing with outside competition seems like a fair trade. No real reason to do the upper tiers at all, otherwise.*






*this is imo a bigger problem with WoE which, if resolved, would probably resolve the solo vs. group problems along with it

[Concerned4FFxi]

i do empyrean, but to skill up my smn and just out of boredom i do WOE whenever i see a shout in jueno. Also, it gives me a little practice on snm. Your right i prefer only clears, i always seem to rank as the top smn in conflux 5, number two overall right behind the bst lol. I always get a coin pouch in my secondus chest so i dont really bother to lot on coins in the treasure pool + like I said i do empyrean so i dont really need the coins. To date im 28/30 coins of decays and i have 10-20 of a few other coins just from occasionally doing woe shouts and placing in the top 5. So i feel that woe, while yes nobody does it, its still so much easier than empyrean and to be honest unless you have a two-handed empyrean or a low delay one like h2h the only thing i feel thats great is the weapons skill because the additional damage effect just dont proc enough for me on almace. I'll problably do a few WOE weapons to fill in the gap so i'll be spending less time on future empyrean/relic/mythic

[Yinnyth]

If you're talking about confluxes 1 and 3, which are the easiest confluxes and the only ones most in which most soloers can effectively operate, well, you basically took his mobs and have zero sympathy from me when you could have just gone to a different flux.

And you're almost certainly talking about 1 and 3, because you're complaining that people do this to you.

Most annoying leech we ever had was on our first (and last) attempt at flux 5. We were kiting the boss because we were having difficulties. Guess what our difficulties were? An idiot rdm with a joyeuse feeding the thing wayyyyyy too much TP and not taking hate because he was hardly doing damage. This idiot rdm kept chasing it around while we were kiting, smacking it with his trusty joyeuse. Guess who got one of the 5 finishing chests even though there were over 18 people in there? That's right, the leech.

But yeah, you're right. I'm betting that rdm was just going in there to solo when our group popped out of nowhere and ruined his plans.

That was our last WoE run we ever did because we were sick and tired of feeding loot to people who deserved nothing short of a kick in the pants. People threatened to leave the linkshell if we kept doing that crappily made event.

[Dragoy]

Also, it gives me a little practice on snm.

I grinned. :]


Most annoying leech we ever had was on our first (and last) attempt at flux 5. We were kiting the boss because we were having difficulties. Guess what our difficulties were? An idiot rdm with a joyeuse feeding the thing wayyyyyy too much TP and not taking hate because he was hardly doing damage.

People threatened to leave the linkshell if we kept doing that crappily made event.

You obviously had a lot of bad luck with having such people around. It really is not like that all the time, and it most certainly should not mean you, or anyone else should be against them 'soloers'.
Makes me wonder, though, what are the players in that Linkshell for, if they say that...


This is a general remark, not towards anyone in particular, but like I mentioned before, I've got quite bad behaviour and comments towards me just because I was waiting for a Conflux to 'open', and they were going to go for it as well, assuming I/we were going to leech I guess. This will fersure provoke many people to just do their best to screw up the run for those people. I do not, but I know many others, will.

Act as you wish yourself to be acted upon usually works. ^^


Again, not towards anyone in particular, just a general thought.

[Doombringer]

just ftr, my ls does emp weapons. i have one myself and have no intent of ever wasting my time on woe for myself. but we have a few guys who just don't have it in them to grind out emps, and even more guys who have way more jobs lvled than me. we're not gonna get them 5 emp weapons.

so we set aside a few nights a month to get members emp-1 weapons for there secondary jobs.. and it is often a clusterfuck, and i hate it, and i always kick and scream that we shouldn't be bothering, because woe sucks and shit gets robbed..

but i go anyway because i'm a team player and love grinding my teeth and/or staring/giggling in slack jawed disbelief at the blatent douchebaggery of the "soloers" (read: leeches) depending on my mood

[Dragoy]

I think it was sort of mentioned before, but yeah, I think it was sort of build with Campaign in mind. And if people did this as much as people used to do Campaign (which was slightly rejuvenated by the recent EXP/AN limit upgrade though not enough so), I don't think there would be such complaints.

But when so few do it, when a group goes over when they all have the time to do so, there is a big chance these 'leeches' are around as well. For me, time was not an issue really so I could basically go whenever I liked to. This was also before Fenrir was merged with Unicorn and thusly about doubled in on-line players.

So that said, I can easily imagine the frustration and possibilities of grief emerging from the system.


The initial system was a good idea, and with some tweaks, it could still work. But it might just be easier and more gratifying to go with the reserved areas instead. But it really needs to be doable more than once/24 hours... It makes no sense in any way to restrict it that hard. The 1 day game-time is enough, really. If not, it could be 2 game-days for 1 certain conflux, so people could get into one they want rather surely.

It's really not that popular after all...


Just some thoughts, sorry for the ramble. :V
As a side note, always liked that Red Mage'ish signature image of yours, Doombringer. :]

[Raksha]

You obviously had a lot of bad luck with having such people around. It really is not like that all the time, and it most certainly should not mean you, or anyone else should be against them 'soloers'.

My LS must have super bad luck then, because that happens EVERY TIME we do 1, 2 or 3.

We've basically just resorted to only doing 7 and being locked out for 30 minutes between runs.

[Dragoy]

My LS must have super bad luck then, because that happens EVERY TIME we do 1, 2 or 3.

We've basically just resorted to only doing 7 and being locked out for 30 minutes between runs.

Just to get a better image: How many people usually are there when you go?
And have you tried to scourge another time-slot for it?
What I mean to say is, are there always so and so many people around there on your server? Eventually the few ones should have their goal satisfied, so either new ones must appear or... it's just popular'ish there. :s

But like I said, I really have not checked in after the recent server-merge, and this is something that is highly depending on the server-population. So it can be very different for us on different servers.

[Raksha]

Just to get a better image: How many people usually are there when you go?
And have you tried to scourge another time-slot for it?

There's usually at least 3 leechers, and maybe 3 more 'soloers' who don't leech every time we go.

Our LS runs on a regular schedule (7pm - 11pm)ish, so really can't fiddle with the time slot.

[Ravenmore]

Just to get a better image: How many people usually are there when you go?
And have you tried to scourge another time-slot for it?
What I mean to say is, are there always so and so many people around there on your server? Eventually the few ones should have their goal satisfied, so either new ones must appear or... it's just popular'ish there. :s

But like I said, I really have not checked in after the recent server-merge, and this is something that is highly depending on the server-population. So it can be very different for us on different servers.

Even changing time would only work for a short time till either the same leechs started showing up or new ones are there waiting for a group. Really hard for a group to get togther and get rewarded for thier work and not give items to other.

[Dragoy]

I certainly understand, and can imagine the amount of frustration if there are that adamant leeches around. :/
And it's obviously difficult for a group due to time constraints, yeah. On that note the reserved battlefields would certainly be better, unless they can come up with something to really fix-it from what it is now.

I just hope there wont be a 24 hour wait. I really enjoyed doing it more than once a day, which was needed since most of the coins came out of the regular monsters, and we made 2 weapons, and certainly were getting every other coin we did not want ha! Obviously the drop-rates wouldn't be the same with a 24 hour system, but that's not the point.

As if things weren't grindy enough already, we are limited by the daily limits which I always hated. For example the old Dynamis system. It's still pretty restrictive with the daily limit, but it's not 3 days at least, like Limbus still is and the Assault tags are something I really frowned upon when doing Nyzul Isle Investigation. That, and probably Limbus, are going to see changes soon though (not that it will help me anymore really).


Either way, we shall see what will become of WoE. I just hope it wont be restricted too oppressively with silly time limits. :\

[Eri]

I see the biggest Issue in not enought ppl doing WoE for the Weapons because Abyssea Versions are better and more appealing and not hard to make. SE should just like...do the Following!

By looking at the Census we saw that the WoE Weapons are Empyrean too!

As WoE Weapons have no Aftermath~ Why not just make next Trail as a Job Specifiaction!

They wont Deal as mutch DMG but every job would get a Weapon with the WS and Job Specific Bonuses!

It would encourage me to do WoE no matter of any flaws the Event has! (If I didn't do it already XD)

The main Problem is ppl dont know if WoE is worth putting Effort in. With Job Specific Bonuses and JSE Paths, the Weapons would look a lot more appealing to be honest!

[Leonlionheart]

I see the biggest Issue in not enought ppl doing WoE for the Weapons because Abyssea Versions are better and more appealing and not hard to make. SE should just like...do the Following!

By looking at the Census we saw that the WoE Weapons are Empyrean too!

As WoE Weapons have no Aftermath~ Why not just make next Trail as a Job Specifiaction!

They wont Deal as mutch DMG but every job would get a Weapon with the WS and Job Specific Bonuses!

It would encourage me to do WoE no matter of any flaws the Event has! (If I didn't do it already XD)

The main Problem is ppl dont know if WoE is worth putting Effort in. With Job Specific Bonuses and JSE Paths, the Weapons would look a lot more appealing to be honest!

I kind of like this idea.

Take the WoE versions in the mythic direction, as in most aren't even close to relic power (Looking at GK and Scythe mostly, although some mythics are clearly better). Meaning have them more job specific enhancements.

Obviously nothing over powered, but like TP+2 per jump for DRG, Souleater+2% for DRK, Cure Potency+10% for WHM, that kind of thing.

[Eri]

I mean like BRD with Twashtar? really? Any Dagger with Ws + Job bonuse would be like so mutch better! The Bonuses should be really in the direction of Mythics but not as Powerful. WoEs are the Weapons which could not only be more useful.... but
also add a ton of ppl doing the event.

[Camate]

Thanks for all your opinions regarding the changes to Walk of Echoes :)

There were some questions both here and on the Japanese forums, so here is some additional info on what’s being planned:


How many people will be able to enter?

Same limit as now (36 people for each area).


Will you be adding a feature where players can place individual rewards into the treasure pool?

We do not have any plans to implement this.


Will coins of ruin be used for something better?


This all depends on the future of Trial of the Magians. We think it would be best to provide other uses for them.


Can you please make coins stackable to 99?

We are looking into this, but it is not something we can do easily.


Please make it possible to exchange coins amongst other players.

This would make the system too easy, so we have no plans for this currently.


If you fail to clear the area will you receive any reward at all? Will it be like campaign union where even though time runs out you will still get a treasure chest after you have been evaluated?

There will be no reward if you fail to clear the area.



I’d like to know whether the brown treasure casket that everyone can lot on upon clearing an area will be removed or if they will remain.

It will be removed. Think of it as all the items up till now will be either added or taken away from each player’s rewards.


Will the contents of chests vary depending on evaluation?

We are planning to have the number of rewards you earn vary based upon your evaluation.

[Alhanelem]

Can I ask why its so hard to make coins stack to 99 when a whole ton of item's stack sizes were changed in the last major update?

[Supersun]

If I were to guess it probably involves where you trade the coins to the chest since the "quests" probably haven't been programmed to deal what happens when they receive a stack of 99 as opposed to a stack of 12.

[Alhanelem]

If I were to guess it probably involves where you trade the coins to the chest since the "quests" probably haven't been programmed to deal what happens when they receive a stack of 99 as opposed to a stack of 12.
Nonsense. Most (or all) of the items with changed stack sizes are traded to the very chest you speak of. Trading all 50 or 75 at once has no issues.

You don't need 99 coins either, you only need 30. It's just that items only stack 12 or only stack 99.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I guess I was hoping for WoE to be a non-endgame endgame event, but that's not the direction this seems to be going, or where people want it to go.

Ah well. Something else to put on the back back back burner next to Limbus and Einherjar.

[Kimble]

Why can solo/duo limbus easily.

[Kari]

Thanks for all your opinions regarding the changes to Walk of Echoes :)

There were some questions both here and on the Japanese forums, so here is some additional info on what’s being planned:

You mostly answered the questions that were obvious to most smart people, minus maybe one or two.
Didn't really answer any of the important questions. Though, I suppose you're limited there.

[Kenthedeviant]

Thanks for all your opinions regarding the changes to Walk of Echoes :)

There were some questions both here and on the Japanese forums, so here is some additional info on what’s being planned:
There will be no reward if you fail to clear the area.



It will be removed. Think of it as all the items up till now will be either added or taken away from each player’s rewards.



We are planning to have the number of rewards you earn vary based upon your evaluation.


Thank your for the response, as we're all very eager to hear about the fate of WoE. However, the last couple statements left more questions than answers. Based on this info, it sounds like treasure chests are being eliminated entirely from WoE. What will the reward system now be? Just a broad idea would be great! Is it a point system like Campaign (allied notes) or like Einherjar (Ichor) perhaps that the user can choose to exchange for what they need? We're dying to know... Surely it's not JUST the base coins that drop off the normal monsters in WoE, correct? As this would leave us with virtually no incentive to clear an area. Thanks!

[Alkimi]

We are planning to have the number of rewards you earn vary based upon your evaluation.

I think it's been mentioned many many times that your 'evaluation' system simply does not work. It heavily favours certain jobs such as PLD and DNC whereas support jobs are generally evaluated poorly.

This is a huge part of the current problem with Walk of Echoes in that certain jobs can enter with you solo, spam abilities, contribute nothing to the fight and yet walk away with a 1st place chest.

[Eri]

I think it's been mentioned many many times that your 'evaluation' system simply does not work. It heavily favours certain jobs such as PLD and DNC whereas support jobs are generally evaluated poorly.


And Dnc Is a DD? a Mainhealer? a Tank? Its a varyable Supporter Type >_>

Though WoE evaluation System has mostly Dmg dealt or Taken in Favor that is the real issue.

Seriously thu add more use to WoE weapon-Trails except being a weaker Empy version. They got the potential!

[Alkimi]

Meant more solo dancers, who just come in and spam abilities/feed unnecessary TP for the sole purpose of ranking highly. They're not supporting anyone but themselves.

The personal chest for everyone idea (which is what it looks like it will be) isn't terrible, but basing it off a flawed evaluation system that punishes mage jobs is. What happened to their original plan of just making it an 18-person closed BCNM style event.

[Winrie]

Why is it even an issue if the coins arent stackable to 99, you only need 30 per weapon to upgrade, and if youre coin hoarding doing omfg5 weapons at once to the point you need that many coins at once, you are one of those obsessed players who has to have everything they want at once, trying to do it off a system that does not really work for that kind of thing. Secondly, in my personal opinion, why are people even complaining bout how hard it is to obtain a 'lesser' empyrean weapon when its double the time consumed to make one compared to the actual BETTER weapon? This doesnt make any sense to me to be honest.

[Eri]

You are right KINDA. I like Walk of echos! I don't claim the Weapons are worth the effort ATM!

BUT I like the event as it is kinda. So if im doing it already ... why not do a Weapon!
Since i really do fight for it i dont see an Issue UNLESS someone lots every single coin for the sake of Loting.
If you need one kind of Coin ~ Comment and Lot only that. The JP Community accepts that and will even take you in PT and pass for you, if you play by their Rules~

I finished Coins for my 2nd weapon.... one after the other so i went to a LOT of runs but being fair in a flawed lot situation is the lest you can do!
I stilly think the Event is good and would be a Lot more fun if the Weapons got a boost in some way via the next Trail maybe more ppl will come do the Event :D i like it.

On another note, there might be some ppl that simply dislike silly Exclamationmark stuff or Abys or BOTH but still want the WS! So yeah... :P

[Dragoy]

Why is it even an issue if the coins arent stackable to 99, you only need 30 per weapon to upgrade, and if youre coin hoarding doing omfg5 weapons at once to the point you need that many coins at once, you are one of those obsessed players who has to have everything they want at once, trying to do it off a system that does not really work for that kind of thing. Secondly, in my personal opinion, why are people even complaining bout how hard it is to obtain a 'lesser' empyrean weapon when its double the time consumed to make one compared to the actual BETTER weapon? This doesnt make any sense to me to be honest.
It's not a big issue, no, but would it be convenient?
Fer sure.

And to some people the weapon with the weapon skill only is a possibility while an Empyrean is not, or at least easier to go for.

Almost every coin is also used for more than one weapon, so one might want to collect more of them within a certain period of time, and then do the other trials at another.
I'm merely speculating, but there are reasons as to why it would be a good idea, while I can't really think of any reason as to why it would be a bad one.


As for the official responses up there, I wonder if all that came out as truly intended through the translation.

Does it mean it's technically difficult, or that they need to take great care with altering such a thing to not throw things off-balance for example...
I can't really fathom neither of these examples being the reason for it not happening though.

All in all, the vague-ö-meter is rather high up for those responses.

No rewards if the battlefield is not cleared? Surely the 'regular monsters' still have loot to be extracted from?
As the previously posted plans did state their drop'a'rate would be adjusted, I believe this is true...
And said loot would go into the treasure pool I imagine, and if/when the battlefield were to be cleared, everyone would get their own boxes, with loot varying according to the points the character has accumulated?

Or rather the rewards would be immediately shoved into the characters cramped baggies, causing them to burst not out of joy(euses), but urgh...


I'll just wait and see what happens.
Thinking a lot about Dynamis now, but that was not the way it was supposed to go.

OR

Another way to interpret that is that players enter, fight monsters and clear the battlefield and only then obtain any kind of a reward. Meaning no rewards at all if the battlefield is not cleared, elevating the difficulty-level towards, and beyond the near-by Atomos.
That is, of course, if the monster behaviour/strength is not meddled with.

I am thinking of the aforementioned scheme being the more likely one contemplated upon.


I'm both OK and not OK with the evaluation scheme. I don't really have any grudges against it, but I agree with the lot who say it is not balanced and far from great.
I always thought the point-system of Einherjar was/is nice, even though I never did it enough to actually use any of those points.
I do, however, wonder why this type of reward-system was not used more widely in the game...
Even the mere fact that you got some even if the battlefield was not cleared, was already pleasing more than lousy drop-rates of random'ish items and such...


I am eager to see what will become of it all, but with mixed feelings.
Like mentioned, I think I'll try to stop thinking about it and just wait and see. :V

[Sparthos]

The more and more I hear about this "new" WoE, the more and more it seems SE is making this event even more of an event few if any will do.

Currently the Empyrean weapon is far easier to acquire than the WoE vanillas. In order to combat this, we're getting a JP midnight lockout on the harder weapons? Eh?

The only way this would work is if coins dropped at an old dynamis rate off NQ mobs. You'd then have a situation where you don't have enough NQs to make the run worthwhile for a group. Again, Abyssea would be a better option.

This plan to eliminate the final lootpool is silliness. If we're going to be reserving the run, why would you get rid of that pool? Individuals would only bring in who they want so lootpools wouldn't be a big deal.

Evaluation systems again SE? Why? Is a point system so difficult to create? Kill mob -> get points -> turn points in for what you want. All this evaluation formula will do is hurt certain classes and promote abuse via buffs or whatever turns out to be worth the most points.

WoE seems to be taking 2 steps forward and 5 steps back.

[Raksha]

My LS does WoE for the money drops, so we have coins coming out the wazoo. I have enough free lot coins to make 4 weapons now if i had the time to do the magian trials. Making them stack to 99 would be great for me!

I realize I'm not typical in this regard though.

[Zagen]

WoE seems to be taking 2 steps forward and 5 steps back.

I'm getting the same vibe which is disappointing. If WoE changes I'll probably just toss my coins and make the emp versions up to 85 at least since they are in general much easier to get... Maybe that's SE's real goal make WoE weapons such a pain in the butt no one will make them...


My LS does WoE for the money drops, so we have coins coming out the wazoo. I have enough free lot coins to make 4 weapons now if i had the time to do the magian trials. Making them stack to 99 would be great for me!

I realize I'm not typical in this regard though.

What money drops?

[Sparthos]

Ants still has money in it - Choker, Beret, Ledelsens.

[Zagen]

Ants still has money in it - Choker, Beret, Ledelsens.

Ah forgot about the chocker/beret dropping in WoE.

[Raksha]

Ah forgot about the chocker/beret dropping in WoE.

We do yilbegan clone a lot, doesnt it still have money drops?

[Zagen]

We do yilbegan clone a lot, doesnt it still have money drops?

Vellaunus' Mantle is the only one. Dunno how often it drops in ranking chests so maybe its still worth it.

Edit: not sure why that sucker is 800k+ tbh when Atheling Mantle is better and relatively easy to get.

Edit2: Ah I see its best for PUP when looking for ATK I guess...

[Karbuncle]

Only reasons i can think of is that PUP can't use Atheling, but can use Vallen, and Vallen is AH'able and most of the FFXI population is lazy as FK and think mobs like Orthrus are AV2.0 and impossible to beat without having no life.

Edit: also i think Pantin cape is better, 5DEX 15atk Pet:15ak vs 20atk 5sb.

[Sparthos]

Until CoP dynamis gets the makeover, Vellanus will be the easier piece to get on PUP.

Yilbegan clone is superior to other fluxes because of the chance of getting 3 pouches in the main pool anyway. For gil, its flux 3 all day.

Fugacity Mantle is worth some gil but the Cerb chamber is pretty tough.

[Raksha]

Yeah I hate those cerbs. When we do antlions we usually get at least 3 leechers, so we tend to do more yilbegan.

[Sparthos]

lol, im tempted to log in and finish up Coin of Birth/Decay for Rudra's and Fudo now.

[Karbuncle]

Summoner Burned Yilb, It was quite fun.

[Zagen]

Summoner Burned Yilb, It was quite fun.

I haven't found any SMNs (English/Spanish speaking at least) who have done this or been a part of it. Would you be willing to elaborate on the strat? Is it similar to #5? Summon Garuda > P.Claws > wait resummon/P.Claws as needed?

[Karbuncle]

I haven't found any SMNs (English/Spanish speaking at least) who have done this or been a part of it. Would you be willing to elaborate on the strat? Is it similar to #5? Summon Garuda > P.Claws > wait resummon/P.Claws as needed?

I used Levaithan but basically yah. Fight was kinda a bitch with 5 SMNs, Constantly resummoning, its a very active fight, and you might have to kite sometimes. Its a really huge area so its not a big problem.

You might die but as long as you keep Stoneskin up and yourself buffed, His TP moves aren't particularly dangerous (Unless your a taru, Then you better put up Earthern Armor too).

Just kite and BP, Stay out of range of his AoEs... He spams AoEs a lot... uses Comet and does Chainspell Comet every so often. Gets access to Meteor at low HP, and some stronger AoEs, but nothing too bad. At one point he spammed Chilling Roar like 7~8 times in a row completely freezing our avatars and prevented us from BPing for a good ~minute or so... but thats not really a problem, just slows the fight.

I'd suggest at least 5 SMNs, If they're well geared shouldn't be a problem with just that, if they suck/have less than optimal gear, bring a RDM or BRD for refresh, because its a long fight.

[Camate]

Once again a bit more information in response to some concerns and other questions that have popped up…




If the group system is similar to the Campaign system style, will this mean that AoE enhancements will affect players outside of the caster’s main party (ex: blood pacts, accession, etc.)?

Yep! This will be possible.


You mentioned that after the adjustments, depending on the ending evaluation the number of rewards inside the treasure casket will increase, but if the number increases based on a hidden ranking value this is pretty detrimental. (I want the hidden ranking value to be eliminated.)

The evaluation is not a “compared to others”-type of evaluation, it is a fixed point evaluation system. We are planning to make it so you can increase the number of rewards if you surpass a specific amount of evaluation points.

As a side note, we will be adjusting the enmity system so that there will be less of a chance that a monster will come running towards you in the same spot that you just defeated a monster, we will also be adding a warning message.

Besides all of the things we have outlined thus far, there will be no other changes to the Walk of Echoes system. With that said, as some have been concerned about this, sacking monsters with a separate party will still be a viable strategy.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

With that said, as some have been concerned about this, sacking monsters with a separate party will still be a viable strategy.

Because when I think "fun," I think sack pulling!

Did it ever occur to you folks that, if sacrificial pulling is a necessary (let alone viable) tactic, that something is fundamentally wrong with the system?

[Leonlionheart]

Because when I think "fun," I think sack pulling!

Did it ever occur to you folks that, if sacrificial pulling is a necessary (let alone viable) tactic, that something is fundamentally wrong with the system?

Well, as it is now, I like it. Better chances for me to get top 5, because God knows I won't be sac pulling.

Don't even ask me to sac. Seriously.

[Cream_Soda]

Are there any plans to adjust the reward system itself?

Some people just come on jobs that can abuse the point system to get the best reward.

For example, nin/dnc can rack in evaluation points from taking damage, healing, enfeebling, dd'ing, debuffing, and magic damage.

Where as a mnk/nin who tanks each mob and is obviously a huge contributor to the run's success can often go without a chest at all because they cap damage taken and damage given rewards and don't have much else they can do in that department.

As is now, people just come in on the jobs that rack up the most points.