WoEs

[Karbuncle]

Are there any plans to adjust the reward system itself?

Some people just come on jobs that can abuse the point system to get the best reward.

For example, nin/dnc can rack in evaluation points from taking damage, healing, enfeebling, dd'ing, debuffing, and magic damage.

Where as a mnk/nin who tanks each mob and is obviously a huge contributor to the run's success can often go without a chest at all because they cap damage taken and damage given rewards and don't have much else they can do in that department.

As is now, people just come in on the jobs that rack up the most points.

While I see the concern here, Will that really be a big problem after this udpate (he said you wont be judged "based on others" only based on your own actions).

Meh, Now that i think about it it'll still mean certain job combos will get higher exp/eval's and thus will form the best job to go as...

[Airget]

It kind of confuses me how they think of this as an appealing event, it doesn't even seem like they are changing anything lol.

WoE should be more open ended and story based, I dunno why it's nothing more then a beat these specific mob type event lol. Like, when i think atomos, I think an area of discarded realms and foes from different dimensions not a realm where the same mob type is sectored off and you have to eliminate atomos's crab problem.

[Seriha]

Meh, Now that i think about it it'll still mean certain job combos will get higher exp/eval's and thus will form the best job to go as...

Which basically emulates the rest of the game. I know some haven't liked the evaluation systems presented in Campaign or WoE because being a one-trick pony usually results in lesser reward, but these are also some of the few events where truly being a hybrid class and acting on that is a benefit, as well as taking the time to level skills you might not otherwise use in basic party play. Sadly, the actual rewards are nowadays antiquated, useless from the start, or too random to rely on for a mix of entertainment and progress.

Eliminating the competition factor is a good start, though. Takes less off what the other guy is doing since it means they're not outright stealing from you. Overall, I feel like contributing hybrids should have an easier time reaching specific reward breakpoints while those playing roles of lesser variety could still reach the same, but with some diminishing returns involved since odds are their singular purpose can be performed to a greater effect than the hybrid.

[Kazaki]

If you play BRD (or similar support job) then this system is flawed heavily.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

If you play BRD (or similar support job) then this system is flawed heavily.I always got lots of points on whm.

[Kavik]

I always got lots of points on whm.


WHM is NOT brd. As brd/whm or brd/nin you are not doing anything but singing, maybe tossing a cure 4, or even 5 or 6 of them and singing your heart out. Your statement has no relevance to the previous statement, since they are not even remotely connected. Of course a whm who is casting cure 5's and 6's, and doing a bunch of buffing and stat ailment curing is going to get a lot of points, but if you're brd there is no way to keep up, to a certain extent this is true of cor as well. It is difficult to do dmg, especially with brd, and perform your job properly, ie keeping songs on everyone. Cor at least has the advantages of ranged attacks, brd does not. whm is a healer, brd supports that healer and the DD's, whm is not even close to a 'similar support job'. I would like to point out, that at some point in campaign battles (when the system was new) they made it so that brd spells counted for just as much as the other 'mage' actions, since so many abused it, they made it incredibly difficult to perform well in campaign battles as brd, i imagine it's the same way in WoE, it prevents the brd from sitting in the back singing to themselves, but it also makes it incredibly difficult to get a good evaluation with no real skill in any weapon, no mp, and most mobs being immune to the only offensive stuff we've got to throw at it. All brd can do effectively is help the other people, and that, historically, doesn't get you anything at all as it pertains to brd's singing.

[Alkimi]

Let's just hope that the evaluation requirement for 'top rewards' is fairly low then.

[Karbuncle]

Which basically emulates the rest of the game. I know some haven't liked the evaluation systems presented in Campaign or WoE because being a one-trick pony usually results in lesser reward, but these are also some of the few events where truly being a hybrid class and acting on that is a benefit, as well as taking the time to level skills you might not otherwise use in basic party play. Sadly, the actual rewards are nowadays antiquated, useless from the start, or too random to rely on for a mix of entertainment and progress.

Eliminating the competition factor is a good start, though. Takes less off what the other guy is doing since it means they're not outright stealing from you. Overall, I feel like contributing hybrids should have an easier time reaching specific reward breakpoints while those playing roles of lesser variety could still reach the same, but with some diminishing returns involved since odds are their singular purpose can be performed to a greater effect than the hybrid.

Yah, Anyway, the problem their discussing is that multiple different jobs are required to complete and win a Walk of Echoes room. But since some job combos guarantee a higher evaluation, people chose those jobs over useful jobs to complete the run.

And i see their concerns in retrospect. But i do like they're removing the "Competition" Factor and removing the "Ranking" Factor.

But uh, This might just be misunderstanding, But are they limiting Walk of Echoes to once per RL Day? Someone said that to me and i couldn't find it

[Dragoy]

But uh, This might just be misunderstanding, But are they limiting Walk of Echoes to once per RL Day? Someone said that to me and i couldn't find it
Unfortunately, if would seem like it, and I personally do not agree with it at all!
From the third page, or well I don't know what it is for you, I have 40 posts per page...


Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system
•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.(2)Change to reservation system
•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.
Hopefully it will not bee... buzzzz.

[Karbuncle]

oh, okay, then I'd like to be the first to say

Are you out of your GD minds?!

Walk of Echoes version Gimpyrean weapons are already (in some cases) more annoying to obtain, Limiting entrance to once per day will kill not only the event but those weapons.

and mother of god, I just realized why the same people have been buying multiple Walk of Echoes related gear.... That sh*t will shoot up if its limited to once per RL day.

[Dragoy]

Well for the coins, I'm assuming they are going to raise the drop-rates on those from the 'regular' monsters.
Though from what they have provided, it's not exactly clear anymore if you will even get any rewards from them, if you were to not successfully complete the battlefield...

Can't really be sure about anything right now, but I would assume you would get a lot more coins from the little monsters. If not, it would be madness to restrict it to once per day (earth time).

I already mentioned somewhere what I think about it, but let it be said again, it's stupid no matter what the drop-rates are because I actually enjoyed being able to do it once per day (game time), and I liked spending a day or two, or a week (earth time) doing nothing else than that all day long with my friend.

For the time being, it does not look like said friend will be playing ever again, and my own continued patronage is not much more likely, but it would indeed be seriously unfortunate if it were to be restricted to once per day (earth time).


Blubb! =\

[Karbuncle]

I hope they really hear our plee and do not make it once per RL day.

I don't care what "Fixes" They can implement because of this restriction, it will not be worth it.

[Rearden]

SE is pretty good at fixing problems poorly. lol.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I think a big problem is that most of the activities that are scored highly in a WoE battlefield aren't actually useful in the fight, if not outright detrimental.

They're good in Campaign or Besieged, but they're actions and tactics that no sane person would use in a "battlefield" situation, at least not unless they were trying to game the system.

Let me put it this way: the point system seems to have been created by the same people who think PLD is useful in group activities to begin with.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Monster item drops and lottable spoils will be abolished.
New rewards will be added.

Is it just me, or do these two statements seem mutually exclusive?

(You spoony bard!)

[Raksha]

Is it just me, or do these two statements seem mutually exclusive?

(You spoony bard!)

It's just you.

[svengalis]

I hope they really hear our plee and do not make it once per RL day.

I don't care what "Fixes" They can implement because of this restriction, it will not be worth it.

"The once-per-Vana’diel-day entry restriction will be preserved."

Where do people get the RL day restriction from?

It could also mean you will now start seeing shouts for WoE that ask for more then just 5 people now.

Does anyone know when these changes will take effect?

[Karbuncle]

"The once-per-Vana’diel-day entry restriction will be preserved."

Where do people get the RL day restriction from?

It could also mean you will now start seeing shouts for WoE that ask for more then just 5 people now.

Does anyone know when these changes will take effect?

First, The post you quoted is old, secondly, this:


Howdy!

As there has been quite a lot of feedback already on the topic of Walk of Echoes adjustments, we’d just like to confirm the type of system everyone really wants, one more time.

We’d like to decide what the best option for the renewed system is based on your feedback, so please post your opinions by 7/18 (Monday).


(1)Original open-access system

•Proceed with adjustments based on the current system.

(2)Change to reservation system

•For the reservation system, we are planning to make it similar to regular battlefields. It will be different than Dynamis and Assault.
•Planning to make entry limited to once per real world day.

We are also looking into the below regardless of which system we chose to adopt:

•Reward revamps
•Item drop rate on regular monsters
•Difficulty level of Magian-related trials that require different types of coins

When responding to this post, We ask that you please begin your post with "1" or "2" so that we can easily tally the votes up during our information gathering.

Is the info I was basing this off of, which is literally at the bottom of page 26, And that post was made before these recent updates.

I bold, Italicized, and Underlined the area in which i got the "1 real life day" Restriction from.

[Olor]

First, The post you quoted is old, secondly, this:

I bold, Italicized, and Underlined the area in which i got the "1 real life day" Restriction from.

That was if they brought in a reservation system - which they are not doing.

[Olor]

[dev1020] Walk of Echoes Battlefield Adjustments

Now it beginning to sound interesting.

[dev1020] Walk of Echoes Battlefield Adjustments
A number of changes will be introduced to Walk of Echoes battlefields in the next version update:
General
The no-reservation system will be preserved.
The once-per-Vana’diel-day entry restriction will be preserved.
All PCs in a single battlefield will form an allied group, similar to Campaign battles.
The spawn delay for subsequent waves of monsters in each walk will be reduced.
The cutscene displayed upon receiving Kupofried’s medallion will appear only once.
New upper-tier walks will be added.
Evaluation and Rewards
Evaluation conditions will be revised.
The system providing exclusive rewards to only the highest-rated participants will be changed to one in which all characters rated above a certain level will qualify for extra spoils.
Monster item drops and lottable spoils will be abolished.
New rewards will be added.
Coin drop rate will be increased.
Difficulty Adjustments
The linked enmity system will be revised.
Characters who remain KO'd for 30 seconds will automatically receive a Raise effect.
A possible time limit extension to 60 minutes is under consideration.

I believe this is the most recent post on WOE

[Dragoy]

Yes, they were going to make it once per day (earth time) and reserved, but they obviously changed their minds on that.

As for the no treasure from the regular monsters, that's something I brought up here as well already before that recent info, which is not too clear about it either.
It does look like there will be absolutely no rewards unless the battlefield is successfully cleared, which will obviously look grim for those who are unable to pull that off...


Basically it looks OK on some parts to me, but really unsure of the rest.
Still interested to see what it will come out to be.

[Karbuncle]

I believe this is the most recent post on WOE

Yes, I know -.- Olor

Check my post date. When i made that post he quoted, The "once per vana'day" was the most recent info. I made that post based off of that thing i quoted. then the new info came out, and he quoted my post i made before the new info like i said it after thee new info.

i was pointing out that that post was made before the new info you quoted was available.

[greatpumpkin327]

I think the term leech is thrown around too loosely when it comes to WOE.
Yes, of course you are a leech if you just sit there and lot and also
if you come solo on a job that can't pull enough weight.

I understand if a group gathered to do WOE and you crash the party it's
considered bad form, but sometimes I see 4 people enter and get mad when
a 5th comes in. In my opinion that's just greedy since it wastes a chest.

And even if your a group of 5 or 6 and a NIN comes into your slime run
(with decent gear and skill) he will improve your winning speed by at
least 10%. If it would have took you 40 minutes to win, that's saving
4 minutes total on the run, and will start your cooldown timer earlier so
you can do again.

Even though you could have won without the NIN, I think he earn the 10%
of the coins that he would probably get on average (but probably less than 10%).

On the other hand though, I do know how frustrating it is when someone comes into
your run and blows the whole thing because they don't know how to play.

I've tried to solo/duo all my glory coins and it was going well up until 5 days ago. Since then
I have only won 1 coin. I need 5 more and it's going super slow. Seen about 25 ruin drop and
about 5 other glory that I lost to lots from people entering in late. Most of my time was wasted
because noobs will train ants up the stairs if they get MB aggro rather than going away and dying.

[Dragoy]

Has anyone tried with a party or more on the test-server?
I did one run at antlions and one at crabs, solo, and all I noticed was:


No loot from little ones, at all (...).
Warning messages when the monsteres 'thirst fer blood' meaning they're coming for a look-see (nice).
Auto-reraise (yay).

Other than that, the monsters seem as tough as before, so it would seem just as I feared: No more soloing, duoing, or even trioing them coins...

Was it not supposed to be improved?
This is it?

I
Don't
Get
It
...

[Raksha]

No more soloing, duoing, or even trioing them coins...

Was it not supposed to be improved?


Sounds like an improvement to me.

[Dragoy]

No more soloing, duoing, or even trioing them coins...

Was it not supposed to be improved?Sounds like an improvement to me.
I take it that you are those who have more than few people to do it with, and/or you've had bad experiences with 'leechers' there, so I fully understand that.

However I/we never 'leeched' nor did I have bad experiences with people doing so. Probably mainly because the place was either empty, or we would just team up with the others (usually Japanese).

So for the likes of me, it certainly is not an improvement. =/
At this rate, I really would be better off creating Empyrean weapons solo/duo\trio, since this, as it is now on the test, will seem impossible.

[Mirage]

How about open access, but rewards limited to the alliance that makes the kills? That way, soloers can still enter whenever they want, regardless of who else is in the area, but organized groups will keep the drops from mobs they claimed to themselves.

Regardless of what's done, I think it is crucial that the WoE empyrean-lite weapons are significantly less troublesome to make than the real empyrean weapons. Both if you want to create this weapon with just a small amount of people (2-3) or a large alliance.

[Xellith]

Sounds like an improvement to me.

Yea Ill just be off duoing my FULL EMPYREAN while someone cant solo or duo a lesser weapon.

MY BRAN JUST PLODED!

[Leonlionheart]

Level SMN, and they are already fifty times easier to make than Empyrean weapons (besides masa/cala/arma).

I leveled SMN specifically for WoE, and I'm pretty glad I did since it's the premier DD for Voidwatch.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Level SMN

Yay, yet more content built around the concept of "Level another job, n00b!"

If I said I was surprised, I'd be lying.

[Nynja]

1. Level BLM, BST, RNG, BLU, SMN
2. Do flux 7 (Almost always drops 2~4 sacks)
3. Finish weapon

You can finish in one run if lucky, two if unlucky.

Hard fight if you suck at kiting, but I've seen two SMNs do it before.

Old post to quote, but I couldnt find any videos of the NM being fought really...how do 2 smn's duo it really? Just throw avatars at it?

[Leonlionheart]

Old post to quote, but I couldnt find any videos of the NM being fought really...how do 2 smn's duo it really? Just throw avatars at it?

Yep, they were freaking amazing SMNs though. It should be noted that I didn't mean they completely duo'd it. They had COR and RDM backup.

The jist of the fight is just stay away, and BP as often as possible.

5 SMN should have no issue, 3 SMN 2 BST might be even easier, throw in a COR and you'll finish every weapon in a day.