Limbus

[DerianX]

So now that Dynamis can be done on a daily basis are there plans to implement a similar change to Limbus?

[Atomic_Skull]

How about we don't noob down everything in the game.

[Arcon]

How about we don't noob down everything in the game.

May be a bit too late for that.

[Zyeriis]

How about we don't noob down everything in the game.

Limbus is hard?

[Karinya_of_Carbuncle]

How about we don't noob down everything in the game.

So you're suggesting capping Limbus at 75? Because otherwise it's already easy, the only question is whether it will be easy and restricted in how often you can do it, or easy and you can do it anytime.

P.S. Ditto Salvage and Einherjar.

[thefinalrune]

I was actually kind of disheartened when I learned that I had to lose my key item every time I went into Limbus. As I'm usually just part of a Duo, I was sincerely hoping to go in and low man some beastcoins now that I finally had access. Not that the CosmoCleanse is all that pricey, its just that in light of the change to dynamis, this area of end game does now seem in disproportion.

However, if by changing to the new dynamis system Limbus would see a similar change in drop rates, I'd rather just pay the fee each time because I don't like the new drop system in Dynamis at all, no matter how often I can go in for free.

[Rie]

The drop system in Dynamis isn't that bad. We got approx. 130 singles and a silverpiece in xarc last night along with THF and RDM AF2s, with only 4 people farming.

[Sama]

How about we don't noob down everything in the game.

Can't... just can't... SE is targeting n00b to make business... you just can't...

[Soundwave]

Some of these events should be considered to be scaled by how many enter the area, not by what type the event is. (Just a thought)

I enjoyed the event Einherjar and I hope they do not make that...to easy, however it needs to be adjusted to today's play

[Atomic_Skull]

However, if by changing to the new dynamis system Limbus would see a similar change in drop rates, I'd rather just pay the fee each time because I don't like the new drop system in Dynamis at all, no matter how often I can go in for free.


Making Limbus a free entry zone like Dynamis would ruin it. It's already a fun event please don't change it.

[GlobalVariable]

How would it ruin? Ultima/Omega are already separate from the other zones. If those 2 were left alone and their zones not made open like dynamis (treat those 2 like a bcnm, chips = orb) I don't see the harm in opening the other limbus zones up with respawning mobs.

On the reverse end; why bother? What is there to want from limbus anymore? Every single piece of gear has been obsolete for awhile now hasn't it?

[Duzell]

How would it ruin? Ultima/Omega are already separate from the other zones. If those 2 were left alone and their zones not made open like dynamis (treat those 2 like a bcnm, chips = orb) I don't see the harm in opening the other limbus zones up with respawning mobs.

On the reverse end; why bother? What is there to want from limbus anymore? Every single piece of gear has been obsolete for awhile now hasn't it?
Brutal earring, Ninja Chainmail +1 say hi

[Mirage]

Why not? re-entry cooldowns have nothing to do with difficulty anyway. Now that fewer people do it, the items aren't as good, we should just be able to do it more often to get it out of the way, and be done with it.

[GlobalVariable]

Brutal earring, Ninja Chainmail +1 say hi

Even if not completely obsoleted zones are easily solo farmed right now if you don't want to just buy coins for brutal. And are you telling me nin AF1+1 is its best body now instead of a situationally useful piece?

[Zyeriis]

How would it ruin? Ultima/Omega are already separate from the other zones. If those 2 were left alone and their zones not made open like dynamis (treat those 2 like a bcnm, chips = orb) I don't see the harm in opening the other limbus zones up with respawning mobs.

On the reverse end; why bother? What is there to want from limbus anymore? Every single piece of gear has been obsolete for awhile now hasn't it?

Brutal Earring, Loquacious Earring, Boxer's Mantle, Myochin Kabuto +1, Ninja Chainmail +1, Homam Cosciales, Beast Helm +1, Beast Jackcoat +1, Beast Gloves +1, Beast Trousers +1, Beast Gaiters +1, Wizard's Coat +1, Magus Keffiyeh +1, Corsair's Bottes +1, Dancer's Casaque +1, Dancer's Bangles +1, Dancer's Shoes +1, Chaos Burgeonet +1, Chaos Gauntlets +1, Drachen Armet +1, Temple Crown +1, Temple Cyclas +1, Temple Gloves +1, Temple Hose +1 (debatable), Temple Gaiters +1, and etc...not going to finish list but you should get the general jist of what I am saying.

That being said, Limbus is way too easy as it is. It was easy pre-abyssea, it's even easier post-abyssea. The time restriction isn't too inviting but, neither of those things really mean it doesn't need an upgrade (preferably one that ups the rewards, at the same time as upping the difficulty but lowering the time constraints). Also, you can't buy abcs, if no one is doing limbus, to buy the gear from the Cosmo Cleanse Girl (Sagheera I think?).

Note: Some pieces like Myochin Kabuto +1 were put in list because while their non +1 version have the same benefits, you get away with only having the +1 piece and being able to store the entire non +1 set in the armor storage npc, which you can't do with the NQ versions, if you want to use those pieces: you have to A) hold onto the other 4 pieces (-4 inventory) or B) throw them out (ill-advised).

Edit: But, I am absolutely against the addition of weakness triggers to Limbus. Do NOT do that.

[Greatguardian]

Even if not completely obsoleted zones are easily solo farmed right now if you don't want to just buy coins for brutal. And are you telling me nin AF1+1 is its best body now instead of a situationally useful piece?

If you're not capping delay reduction? Best TP body. Though it's really not enough of an upgrade from the NQ to matter at all.

[Fyreus]

Can't... just can't... SE is targeting n00b to make business... you just can't...

People often forget that this is a business and at the end of the day my money isn't any different from your money... speaking of which, they aught to fix things before buffing others. Ignoring the elephant in a small room by distracting us with shinies is getting old.

[GlobalVariable]

long list Personal opinion: You have some strange ideas of what is current good gear nowadays. Monster gaiters for example is much larger +reward potency than beast gaiters +1. But If I honestly knew for sure everything had been replaced it wouldn't have been a question anyway but In any case I am not getting sucked into some crazy debate over the situational usefulness of each and every limbus piece. I'd actually like them to open the zone up to; the place is just plain fun.

[Ravenmore]

Some of these events should be considered to be scaled by how many enter the area, not by what type the event is. (Just a thought)

I enjoyed the event Einherjar and I hope they do not make that...to easy, however it needs to be adjusted to today's play

Limbus does this already, least with how many mobs spawn based on how many you have people.

[Zyeriis]

Personal opinion: You have some strange ideas of what is current good gear nowadays. Monster gaiters for example is much larger +reward potency than beast gaiters +1. But If I honestly knew for sure everything had been replaced it wouldn't have been a question anyway but In any case I am not getting sucked into some crazy debate over the situational usefulness of each and every limbus piece. I'd actually like them to open the zone up to; the place is just plain fun.
You were arguing the pieces were obsolete. They're not, I didn't even get half way through the useful pieces. You're arguing that they're situational, they're not. They're gear swap pieces mostly. There is no situational-ity to myochin kabuto (+1 or not), if you're a sam and you aren't using it in your meditate macro, you suck. It is the best meditate 9tp gain/regain) piece of equipment other than it's counterpart the relic hands, which goes in a completely different armor slot. The same can be said about most every piece of equipment I listed. Not all of them though, there are a few pieces that are just flat out better in one way or another over other gear in one way or another.

Anyway, I'll go back to what I said earlier, they need to make +2 versions of the equipment.

[Duzell]

Anyway, I'll go back to what I said earlier, they need to make +2 versions of the equipment.
Yes, please.
maybe Af1+2 level 95 Af2+2 level 97 and af3+3 level 99

[Mirage]

I like that idea, but I don't think they should be better than empy gear in every possible way. Maybe the three different armor sets should specialize in different roles/situations that the jobs could have/be in.

[Greatguardian]

The playerbase confuses the hell out of me.

Half the threads on here ask for a revival of old content, new relevance to the events we've been doing for half a decade, and a revamping of old gear to make it slightly more useful.

The other half complain every single update about rehashed old content every update, stating that they preferred the old events the way they were.

Yet these two groups never actually clash on the forums. They either just plain never encounter each other, or people just pick and choose which side they want to be on when they wake up each morning. More likely, I think people moan about wanting a revival of old content between development cycles because they like old content. Then they realize that they get something that's not exactly what they had in their minds and get pissy every update about how SE "ruined" their old favorites.

Protip guys: Don't ask for a revival of old content if you like the old content. If you obviously like it as it is, just keep it how it is. These forums change their mind more than women change shoes.

[Zyeriis]

The playerbase confuses the hell out of me.

Half the threads on here ask for a revival of old content, new relevance to the events we've been doing for half a decade, and a revamping of old gear to make it slightly more useful.

The other half complain every single update about rehashed old content every update, stating that they preferred the old events the way they were.

Yet these two groups never actually clash on the forums. They either just plain never encounter each other, or people just pick and choose which side they want to be on when they wake up each morning. More likely, I think people moan about wanting a revival of old content between development cycles because they like old content. Then they realize that they get something that's not exactly what they had in their minds and get pissy every update about how SE "ruined" their old favorites.

Protip guys: Don't ask for a revival of old content if you like the old content. If you obviously like it as it is, just keep it how it is. These forums change their mind more than women change shoes.

*Shakes head*
Wanting the revival of old content is not the same as wanting old content to be changed. If they would just fix the rewards (for example: making +2 versions of relics and artifact equipment), then old content would get revived (people would have a reason to do them again). You know, unless the upgrades suck (see what they did to sky gear and abjs., where you can no longer store that gear because it becomes augmented).

Edit: I know it's potentially contradictory to say that the limbus gear isn't obsolete (which it isn't) then to say that they need to fix the rewards. The rewards are broken even if they aren't obsolete, in the fact that you can get other gear in a faster manner (emp gear). This is the gear that you main, not your gear swap gear. People tend to go after the things they see rather than the things they don't. This is why they need to make more visible rewards from "old" content, not change the content itself like they drastically did with dynamis.

[Greatguardian]

*Shakes head*
Wanting the revival of old content is not the same as wanting old content to be changed. If they would just fix the rewards (for example: making +2 versions of relics and artifact equipment), then old content would get revived (people would have a reason to do them again). You know, unless the upgrades suck (see what they did to sky gear and abjs., where you can no longer store that gear because it becomes augmented).

Do you want Homam to be better than AF3+2?

Serious question, because then you have two options

A) Homam is better. But to do this without increasing the difficulty of Limbus would be stupid as hell. So, of course, the content would be changed. People would be unhappy.

B) AF3+2 is better, Homam is treated the same as Abjuration gear is being treated now. Never mind the fact that some Abjuration gear and Sky gear has absolutely badass augments when HQ3'd, people will complain about how "useless" it is anyways, or how it requires sky/kings/einherjar to upgrade.

You aren't thinking about the consequences of upgrading old equipment. You will never make people happy with "Gear that is better than old homam but is worse than AF3+2". No matter how much they profess their desire for said gear, people will just bitch and moan the moment it's released.

Edit: Replace Homam with Af+2, Relic+2, w/e

[Akujima]

This is why they need to make more visible rewards from "old" content, not change the content itself like they drastically did with dynamis.


But a point that has been passed over is, "old" stuff back then wasn't really "old". Just because it was a different Level, didn't mean it became instantly obsolete when new content came out. A Lv59 Haubergeon/Haubergeon+1 was still a great armor piece for DRKs and SAMs even at Lv75. Lv50 body Rapparee Harness was still great for DNC and THF for haste gear at 75. (I could go on and on, since there are so many instances of these types of gear being useful, but aren't MAX LV. O-Kote, Leaping Boots, Emp Hairpin, Fuma Kyahan, X-counters, Scorp Harness, and the list goes on and on...)

I understand that there were better pieces of equipment out there to replace a Haubergeon and Rapparee Harness, but it still took some time to get that equipment, and these "old pieces" saw ALOT of life during endgame. The point is, that now with Empyrean being so easy and quick to obtain, nobody is going to go and do Salvage and spend a ton of money getting Usukane or Skadi's, etc. They're going to buy some cheap Perle and Aurore gear and farm seals for some easy upgrades, which would be the smart thing to do anyways.

Empyrean Armor and Weapons slashed a deep profusely bleeding wound into other Equipment and Gear, that anything SE has done so far to try and improve said "old equipment", was like trying to apply a band-aid to someone who just lost an arm and is bleeding to death.

[GlobalVariable]

You were arguing the pieces were obsolete. They're not Soem most certainly are. I think you have strange ideas of what is good and current entirely because of the way you made that post. You barfed up a huge list with more than 1 obsolete piece in it as a response. I asked, and then I got some poor example answers. Beast gaiters+1 dang well are obsolete, they were obsolete when monster gaiters hit years ago. If I ask "Does +1'ing the kabuto make it significantly different if it is ONLY swapped for meditate?" that is a question not arguing.

Major 2nd Edit:
I lost my connection mid edit, caught with my pants down so to speak because I realize something I just said does make it sound like I want to argue that all limbus gear is crap when that really is nowhere near my actual intentions. On the upside, this gave me time to rethink the above, even though the edit managed to get though.

I was attempting to make a point by asking a question knowing (or so I thought) it would be answered in a way that would show there is a reason to bother. This backfired when pushed to defend it as if it were a statement with really crappy examples.

Anyway, I want to apologize for having cruddy communication skills and really want to stress that it was not and is not my intention to argue that *everything* is obsolete junk, even though my phrasing even in the original question may seem to imply it to you.

[Greatguardian]

Did Akujima really just edit his post entirely to underline and bold things even more? It's not like the rest of us need ridiculous emphasis in font to bother reading anything. That's just you.

As for "Sidegrade FFXI", people were plenty sick of it for years. The best body in the game for some jobs came from freaking Rise of the Zilart. Let's not even get started on Ridill. Nothing new ever replaced anything, it just clogged up more inventory with situational sidegrade stats. Most of the time, new gear was patently useless because it would never be better than an existing piece.

The people who actually completed content and got those gear drops have been asking for something, anything, to obsolete Ebody for half a decade. We finally got it. There is finally some forward progression. Don't dare think you can drag the rest of us back to the dark ages of ten-year-old Ultimate gear without a fight.

[DerianX]

One change I would love to see is the Rare tag removed from +1 items (and maybe even make them stackable).

I can't remember how many times I've seen a +1 item from one region get trashed because I already have it and haven't had any luck obtaining the corresponding item from the other region.

[Arcon]

One change I would love to see is the Rare tag removed from +1 items (and maybe even make them stackable).

I can't remember how many times I've seen a +1 item from one region get trashed because I already have it and haven't had any luck obtaining the corresponding item from the other region.

That actually sounds pretty nice.

Personally, I really liked the old content, I didn't feel a need to change it much, if at all. I wasn't a fan of free zones like in WoE, now they did it to Dynamis. I wasn't a fan of the weakness system, now they did it to Dynamis. I never complained before, I quite liked the game. The one thing I asked to fix were little bugs and annoyances, that didn't really relate to any event at all.

And sometimes when people complain SE does change it, but makes it worse. It sounds like it's impossible to please people, but SE simply often gets it wrong, which is why it sounds like people always complain regardless. Take the updated kings system for example, people wanted it easier to access, wanted better chances at a Defending Ring. SE noticed the complaining and did something about it. And as a result, they made it worse (that's subjective of course, but considering the average effort and time it takes a single person to obtain it increased). So they complain again, which is legitimate imo. "Updating" doesn't always mean "fixing" and unfortunately, this isn't the only update that made certain things worse.

[Akujima]

Personally, I really liked the old content, I didn't feel a need to change it much, if at all. I wasn't a fan of free zones like in WoE, now they did it to Dynamis. I wasn't a fan of the weakness system, now they did it to Dynamis. I never complained before, I quite liked the game. The one thing I asked to fix were little bugs and annoyances, that didn't really relate to any event at all.


Im going to repost this because I'll basically just say the same thing. FFXI before was fine, just needed to fix some minor annoyances and improve drop rates from certain endgame NM's and places like Dynamis and whatnot. Instead of adding Abyssea, they could have fine tuned the endgame content, and just given us another full out expansion and I would have been happy.

[Ravenmore]

If they had up dynamis drops rates any more the they did the last time they up it they might as well sent it to you in your D.box. Getting 20 AF2s in the north lands was a slow night. After going though WoTG with a story that took them 3 years to finish with out adding anything for endgame till abyssea came along. Its great that you still enjoyed the old endgame but many more were sick of it. At 75 it was all mind numbing going to do it for the 100th time. On my server before abyssea you could go to Sky and hit every demi-god including Despot cause only people that was up there were doing mob kills for trials. Only mob that drop anything worth a crap that not every one already had was W.legs. Then there was the ToAU HNMs that were up for days with out anyone bothering to go kill.

[Akujima]

If they had up dynamis drops rates any more the they did the last time they up it they might as well sent it to you in your D.box. Getting 20 AF2s in the north lands was a slow night. After going though WoTG with a story that took them 3 years to finish with out adding anything for endgame till abyssea came along. Its great that you still enjoyed the old endgame but many more were sick of it. At 75 it was all mind numbing going to do it for the 100th time. On my server before abyssea you could go to Sky and hit every demi-god including Despot cause only people that was up there were doing mob kills for trials. Only mob that drop anything worth a crap that not every one already had was W.legs. Then there was the ToAU HNMs that were up for days with out anyone bothering to go kill.

I guess you missed the part where I said they needed to fix and fine-tune the minor annoyances...

And this calls for!!!

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[Sama]

FFXI before was fine, just needed to fix some minor annoyances and improve drop rates from certain endgame NM's and places like Dynamis and whatnot. Instead of adding Abyssea, they could have fine tuned the endgame content, and just given us another full out expansion and I would have been happy.

Abyssea may be cool but letting n00b leech is SE's worst decision; SE needs to fix that...

[Aliekber]

Abyssea may be cool but letting n00b leech is SE's worst decision; SE needs to fix that...

No, they really don't.

[Akujima]

No, they really don't.

So you agree to key'whoring, thinking its cool for a Lv30 to be able to enter Abyssea?

That makes no sense, the minimum requirement to enter Abyssea should be 75... Even Dynamis has a LvCap of 65...

[Greatguardian]

So you agree to key'whoring, thinking its cool for a Lv30 to be able to enter Abyssea?

That makes no sense, the minimum requirement to enter Abyssea should be 75... Even Dynamis has a LvCap of 65...

So you disagree with me?

That makes no sense, this is how arbitrary things should be based on my personal feelings. Even Sky has a level requirement of 1...

[Akujima]

So you disagree with me?

That makes no sense, this is how arbitrary things should be based on my personal feelings. Even Sky has a level requirement of 1...


Yea, but Sky Access actually requires you to get Rank 6, unlock area's such as Kazham, fight in BCNM to progress and then when it's all over with... Who is going to bring a Lv1 to Sky? For what? Gear? The Lv1 will need to LvUp eventually anyways, so I don't see how your Sky argument is valid at all.

On the other hand, Abyss requires Jeuno Access and that's about it (Unless you can tell me something else it requires that I missed?). And fast EXP IS what a Low Level wants, and Abyss gives just that. So the Sky argument holds no water.

[Aliekber]

So you agree to key'whoring, thinking its cool for a Lv30 to be able to enter Abyssea?

Um, yeah. That is kind of the point.


That makes no sense

Neither does Chewbacca living on Endor.

[Sama]

Tell us is this what you have at your last aby pt:

leechie 1, leechie 2, leechie 3, leechie 4,... WHM, MNK... leechie 18.

You are happy because you are one of the leechie; which I personally feel acceptable only when you have have just 1-2 to key. But lately this is out of control, you can fall into any shout group which consist of 6-10 leechies because simply 1-2 decked DD with WHM can get you good dom ops xp. In that case, how do you justify SE is NOT allowing people to leech?

Walk around and see you may even find a 90WAR don't know what provoke does.

[Aliekber]

Tell us is this what you have at your last aby pt:

leechie 1, leechie 2, leechie 3, leechie 4,... WHM, MNK... leechie 18.

You are happy because you are one of the leechie

Actually, I only rarely leech. Otherwise, I'd already have all jobs to 90. Most of the time, I run Gold Chest parties and allow others in my LS or friends of mine to leech jobs.


Walk around and see you may even find a 90WAR don't know what provoke does.

If they made it to 30 to leech WAR without knowing what Provoke does, they were hopeless anyway. Additionally, if you're leveling a job at all without researching it ahead of time, chances are you were going to end up a gimp 90 no matter how you leveled it.

This is getting off-topic. Back to the point of the thread, I'd like to see Limbus enterable every day (15k entry fee is still fine). Other than that, I don't think it really needs to be changed.

[Panthera]

I think that SE had waiting periods was to keep us from getting too much gear too soon. Now that some of the gear is outdated, the waiting period doesn't serve much purpose. If SE wants us to keep playing, and Limbus is something people still like doing, then allowing us to play as often as we like is in their interest. That is why it would be worth changing the code.