Reviving PvP & Ballista

[Akujima]

I've had a few thoughts about making a Ballista LS myself on Asura. But I've wondered whether or not it could hold water against Abyssea and keep members interested for more than just a few weeks. The PvP possibilities in FFXI are enormous considering the amount of job/subjob combo's, I think it has great potential for fun and sport amongst the player base.

But...

There are some things holding Ballista back from being popular, and I'll post some of those topics as well, as am being open to further discussion about other new ideas on how to revive PvP within FFXI.


Ballista Time Construct

The rotation schedule for Ballista is quite long, and it takes 30~ hours or so for an uncapped battle to come along. This time constraint really puts a hurt on players wanting to go to certain level restricted battles.

New Time Construct: Allow for there only to be Lv30, Lv60 and Uncapped battles. Do away with the days of the month system, and allow each capped/uncapped battle to rotate between the 3 area's.

Example:

Pashow: Lv30 cap -> Next Event -> Lv60 Cap
Jugner: Lv60 cap -> Next Event -> Uncapped.
Meriphataud: Uncapped -> Next Event -> Lv30 Cap

Keep this rotation constant and allow for an extra 30~ minutes or so for people to take a break between battles and/or prepare for the next fight in whichever Lv Cap they choose to enter. This way there will always be a Lv30, 60 or Uncapped Ballista happening all the time.


Ballista Points

Allow for us to obtain more Ballista Points to be spent on various rewards. (For list of rewards, see below)


Rewards

And now for one of the most important points.

First and foremost, we all know that knocking down a tough boss and seeing some amazing equipment drop from him is what drives most people to go to events and explore new area's and expansions such as Abyssea. We can't deny this fact, and this is where Ballista as an event fails. There are no tangible rewards to obtain, but I've come up with some solutions to fix this.


Reward Ideas: Equipment, Furniture & Trophies.

Equipment: Equipment can range from anywhere to fun costumes to awesome PvP specific gear, that have stats which only come into effect during Ballista. This PvP specific equipment would make Ballista extremely popular and would encourage ALOT of players to compete in fun friendly Ballista battles regularly.

The fun equipment and costumes, such as job specific costumes with nation flags on them would appeal to people just wanting to have some fun and not be too competitive while still being able to obtain a neat little reward.

Furniture & Trophies: Wall plaques and battle trophies that can be placed in your mog house. These furnishings could even have some moghancements that boost PvP somehow, such as allowing for more Ballista Points to be earned or something along those lines. But nothing too powerful and nothing that would boost stats in PvP itself.


Tournaments for the PvP'er at heart.

This is by far my favorite idea. Take an area, such as the battle arena in Aht Urgan Whitegate. Allow for teams to sign up for tournaments and face off in scheduled tournament battles.

Team Battles: Allow for players to specifically choose their teammates. Have Tournaments that range in different sizes, such as 2v2, 3v3 and 6v6. Allow for different trophies and amounts of tournament points to be earned from each division.

Tournament Points: These points would be specifically gained from participating in tournament events. Points could be spent on another Tier of PvP specific equipment and other such tournament related items.

Tournament Trophies: Trophies that prove your heroism in the arena. Different size and material (gold, mithril, etc) trophies for 1st, 2nd and 3rd prize.

Spectators: Allow for people who aren't participating in the tournament, to spectate the matches, and be able to cheer their favorite team on.


I think this would add tons of fun and variety to FFXI. And If you're one of those people who don't like PvP, you wouldn't have to participate, because most of the rewards would be PvP specific. And if you would rather just cheer on your favorite team, you can spectate certain matches in the Tournament Arena.

I think bringing a PvP system like this to life, would make competition friendly and allow for people to try out new jobs in the PvP battlefields. Have fun watching matches, and play around in PvP to get some neat little rewards.

Thanks for reading and tell me what you think!

[Mezzopiano]

I like the ideas. Also, don't forget about Brenner too, which has most of the same problems.

[Akujima]

I like the ideas. Also, don't forget about Brenner too, which has most of the same problems.

Mezzo, I'm trying to make a new PvP LS on Asura.

It's ganna be fantastic, wanna join? (My name is Shinjima in game, Asura server)

We can single handedly revive PvP! Me and you, lets do it!

[Ravenmore]

Posted what I thought in the other thread this was brought up in.

[Arlan]

I like this post. Almost everything about what the OP says I agree with and support.
I don't know much about brenner tho..

But here is one other thing that I would like the PVP element to have.
I would like it if there was a function where PlayerA can go up to playerB, (Anywhere Outside a cities), and select "Dual" on them and when that happens, playerB will receive a message saying "PlayerA wants to Dual you".
If PlayerB accepts the dual. Both characters are allowed to engage on each other. If death occurs, No Exp loss will happen. This would make pvp even more interesting for players who want instant action with friends.
But no special Points should be awarded for "Instant Dual".
Also, The idea that the OP has with PVP gear being obtained from belista to increase stats for pvping only, I think those stats should also be accessible for "Instant duals" as well. That way people can get epic Belista pvp gear to pvp with friends using the "Instand Dual" function rather than having to "wait" and "Wait" for an event to start.

So ya, "Instant Dual" feature would also make pvp neat. But no rewards from them since Belista and Brenner should be the primairy pvp system that offers PVp rewards while "Instant Dual" can be just for fun without needing to sign up when bored.

[Akujima]

I just did some Brenner today and... That stuff is amazingly fun!...

I say revive PvP this way and lets all have some tournaments!

[Habiki]

I can never get anyone to do PVP, most people dont like it because it restricts your gear.

[Akujima]

I can never get anyone to do PVP, most people dont like it because it restricts your gear.

I don't understand why really. All In all you would just have to think more carefully about what kind of equipment you would wear full time, and you can still switch gear. You just get a penalty (a 10 second self stun effect), but if you're out of danger and you know there's like a BLM or someone that Sleeps you alot, you can equip an Opo-Opo necklace to get some TP while slept. Or something like an Insomnia Earring and +Darkness Resist for some resist sleep equipment.

PvP has alot of strategy to it. Personally I think the dynamics involved are overwhelming, but the Fun Factor is SO worth it.

[Volkai]

FFXI is a PvE MMO.

PvP was added as an afterthought.

Most people I know with any interest in PvP left FFXI for WoW when it first came out.

The rest left after the Ballista Royale was completed.



I think the Ballista Royale was the last hurrah for PvP in FFXI. I doubt it will see anything (aside from patches to game-breaking elements when new traits, abilities, and spells designed for a PvE game are used in PvP) in the foreseeable future.

Especially now that the XI dev team seems to be so reduced due to the focus on devs working on making XIV profita- I mean more enjoyable to play.


===========

While we're talking about PvP, I'll accept any 40-cap one-on-one challenge, on Phoenix server.
Send me a /tell.

[Urteil]

FFXI is a PvE MMO.

PvP was added as an afterthought.

Most people I know with any interest in PvP left FFXI for WoW when it first came out.

The rest left after the Ballista Royale was completed.



I think the Ballista Royale was the last hurrah for PvP in FFXI. I doubt it will see anything (aside from patches to game-breaking elements when new traits, abilities, and spells designed for a PvE game are used in PvP) in the foreseeable future.

Especially now that the XI dev team seems to be so reduced due to the focus on devs working on making XIV profita- I mean more enjoyable to play.


===========

While we're talking about PvP, I'll accept any 40-cap one-on-one challenge, on Phoenix server.
Send me a /tell.

There is a huge learning curve to PvP in XI and there are systems in place to prevent 1 shotting, endless CC'ing of a single target, and many many many gear choices to help one bolster themselves against status ailments.

The gear restriction allows a person to have to pick what set and what role and what enemy they will be fighting against. A group or 1v1 situation, the people who hate the gear restriction aren't smart enough to tie their own shoes, because understanding and analyzing a situation and making gear for it should be a fundamental skill every FFXI player should possess.

There are still a lot of people who enjoy PvP but the simple fact is they don't even know when its occuring and the signup/method for doing it is rather esoteric. Anyone who left to WoW for PvP promptly went other places or returned, I being one of them. I find the system horrid and too (RNG) driven.

I support the ideas of this post and it would not take drastic overhauls to revive ballista. All that they have to do is give 30,000exp a piece to the winning team and probably 40,000-50,000g and I guarantee people would show up.

Or just add titles or cosmetic things, it really wouldn't take much.

If they had a broadcast in lower Jueno when matches were starting, and if matches weren't so picky about starting, a million bored people would jump up and do it for the sheer fact that there is not a lot to do.

I don't see how anyone who PvP's at the 40cap expects to be taken seriously, but if you get to the max level which takes about 4 hours I'll play you. As far as game breaking things, I'm a DRK, not a BLU or a RDM or a BLM, and these 'game breaking' things are just mythical things that people who /cough play 40cap /cough tote around to try to harm the integrity of the system.

[Korpg]

PVP just makes hurt feelings and inflated egos.

"I beat that BLM in PvP, so that must mean that MNK > BLM"

"Ok MNK, go solo a dragon in Mount Z"

Thats all I see in PvP tbh.

[Volkai]

I don't see how anyone who PvP's at the 40cap expects to be taken seriously, but if you get to the max level which takes about 4 hours I'll play you. As far as game breaking things, I'm a DRK, not a BLU or a RDM or a BLM, and these 'game breaking' things are just mythical things that people who /cough play 40cap /cough tote around to try to harm the integrity of the system.

1) The same way anyone who PvPs in a PvE MMORPG might expect to be taken seriously.
2) I'm not interested in uncapped PvP. 30, 40, or 50cap is what I'm interested in - high enough to have some options, low enough to have constraints you're probably not used to working under. It keeps things interesting.
3) You misunderstand. When I say 'game breaking' I mean things that make FFXI or your PC or your XBox 360 or PS2 crash.

[Akujima]

PVP just makes hurt feelings and inflated egos.

"I beat that BLM in PvP, so that must mean that MNK > BLM"

"Ok MNK, go solo a dragon in Mount Z"

Thats all I see in PvP tbh.


The same thing is happening in PvE right now.
People are picking MNK's over PLD's because MNK tanks better.
People are picking NIN's over RNG's because NIN do superior damage.
People are picking WHM's over RDM's because WHM's are superior healers.

Favoritism isn't something new that is only experienced in PvP. And there is a big difference in PvP, because you can sub a job that would benefit you against your weakness. I watched a youtube video of a THF/NIN vs a PLD/WHM. The THF lost because the PLD with WHM sub could spam Diaga and break his shadows all the time.

That same THF/NIN beat a PLD/BLU of about the same level. Because PLD/BLU might have great defense, but he wasn't able to knock the THF's shadows down fast enough, so the THF had even more survivability.

PvP just has more dynamics. And I'm pretty sure a smart team of RNG's and THF's could take out a team of BLM's anyday. It just takes time and practice to learn each others abilities.

[Alhanelem]

I've taken advantage of Player Event Support to get the attention of some people who don't really even know about PvP. By hosting events like this, you can get better results.

That said, it's always in the diorama. Official matches really need some kind of incentive for people to participate- Some gear, even if it's only useable in ballista or only has cosmetic effects, would attract some people.

[Miera]

The Idea is nice, you could all place bets like everyone who plays throw in 50K+ or however much bet you place in the pot and whoever ends victorious wins the pot.

Sounds like a card game lol.

[Akujima]

The Idea is nice, you could all place bets like everyone who plays throw in 50K+ or however much bet you place in the pot and whoever ends victorious wins the pot.

Sounds like a card game lol.


Yea, I'm trying to do this right now on Asura. It's fun and kind of sparks a challenge in people. Btw if you're on Asura and looking to revive some PvP fun, PM me. My name is Shinjima, LS is called "Versus" and the more people we get, the more fun we can have!

[Miera]

Yea, I'm trying to do this right now on Asura. It's fun and kind of sparks a challenge in people. Btw if you're on Asura and looking to revive some PvP fun, PM me. My name is Shinjima, LS is called "Versus" and the more people we get, the more fun we can have!

Unfortunately I am on Leviathan, too bad we cannot do Server Vs Server PVP because that would be awesome.

But My LS has free nights so I think I should use your ideas for Free nights, let everyone unwind from Abyssea Emp farming.

[Gallus]

Things that would make the PVP more appealing:

- Allow gearswaps with only the penalty of a 3 second bind effect (to prevent purposeful blinking while running away).
- Allow players to purchase a good deal of pve gear with ballista points, but for a heavy cost.
- Allow people to purchase ballista temp items from a bit higher Gil cost than ballista point cost.
- Permit the use of standard item use inside ballista

While I agree that FFXI is primarily a PVE game, PVP would do no harm to pve, and if anything, it would encourage more players to join/come back. Allowing the purchase of PVE gear with a large number of ballista points would help with congestion and wouldnt impact PVE content in any negative ways.

[Leonlionheart]

Biggest problem with PvP is how much better RDM and BLU are than everyone else.

RDM can destroy everyone with gravity/bind/sleep/break/silence

BLU can destroy everyone with the same things, then more so with near-instant cast spells that do huge damage.

[Wenceslao]

Another Ballista Royale.....

[Squirrels]

To the guy who's talking about people being stupid for not being able to choose a set for the certain situation, that's the reason why people are mad. They have sets for every possible situation that they aren't able to use in Ballista because of the Stun effect. I personally don't like it as I feel gear swaps are essential to utilizing each job to it's fullest capabilities.

I'm all for a way to get people playing Ballista again and removing the gear restriction will be one. They did it for Bolts and Arrows after Ballista was first introduced, why not just remove the system altogether.

Side Note: Another set of server-wide JP, EU, NA and other countries Ballista Royales with the 4 winners competing in a tournament to crown the best team overall would raise a lot of interest in Ballista, if only for a short time.

[Akujima]

I'm all for a way to get people playing Ballista again and removing the gear restriction will be one. They did it for Bolts and Arrows after Ballista was first introduced, why not just remove the system altogether.

If they removed that system, then everyone would be running around blinking in and out of gear, and it would be damn near impossible to target anyone.

I realize to play a job to its potential requires gear swaps. But it just brings another level of challenge to PvP if you cant change gear mid-battle. It's not that people are "stupid" for not being able to change equipment, it just adds another strategy to the game, one that would require a non-conventional way of thinking.

[Huevriel]

I'm all for reviving Ballista. Nobody does it on my server. Everyone's too busy getting their crimson red tan in abyssea or getting dirty, ganking the new mobs down in the mines.

[Volkai]

Another Ballista Royale.....

The best idea I've seen in this thread.

[Wenceslao]

The best idea I've seen in this thread.

Really I know many player who enjoyed ballista will be more than willing to attend it, and new players could be lured by this event.

[Squirrels]

If they removed that system, then everyone would be running around blinking in and out of gear, and it would be damn near impossible to target anyone.

I realize to play a job to its potential requires gear swaps. But it just brings another level of challenge to PvP if you cant change gear mid-battle. It's not that people are "stupid" for not being able to change equipment, it just adds another strategy to the game, one that would require a non-conventional way of thinking.

I never called anyone stupid for not being able to change gear. What strategy does it add to a balanced ballista(18 vs 18 spread of support/mages/dd) match? Wear full PDT/MDT so you can survive everything as a mage. Focus on acc/PDT/MDT as a DD. I'm generalizing here before you get your panties in a wad about stuff like Opo-Opo Necklace and other stuff.

There's no "strategy" in choosing which set to fulltime, it goes by your job and how the match is progressing. Nothing less, nothing more. Does your job generally have acc problems? Gear for Acc. Does your job have survivability problems? Gear for PDT/DEF/MDT. You may have to go out and buy specific pieces that cover more areas than a single piece for the fact that you can't switch. Generally everyone who plays(or atleast played from 03-07) Ballista with regularity will have the same 2~3 gear sets they use throughout the match depending on how it's going.

In closing, the guy who said to remove the effect of stun to gear swapping and changing it to a short time bind(that gets increasingly longer the more you change your gear before it wears off), to prevent people from swapping gear to run away and not be targeted, is probably the best way(opinion here)to go about changing the system.

[Zaknafein]

I honestly think the best way to revive Pvp is to make a new centralized area in a major hub. Whitegate makes the most sense. Do away with the "pit" area, and make it a coliseum. A place where you can PvP or just go to watch/bet on the outcome of 1v1, 3v3, and 6 on 6 matches. The current format of ballista with the annoying wait times, and capped blah blah blah is aggravating. Make this uncapped with the afore mentioned 3 sec stun on gear swaps. Brenner doesn't offer the option for random ppl to come watch because it is instanced. The coliseum plan allows for the best option imo.

Rewards of town gear models, costumes, furnishings etc. only acquired thru PvP would be perfect. The game needs this addition. What ever resources devoted to the development of this concept would continue to pay dividends far into the future. Not only with the same content being reused again, and again gladly, but it would go a long way toward retention of accounts. When players get burnt on the grind of gearing out jobs, and end game this would always be there as an alternative. Duking it out in a public setting with bragging rights on the line just never gets old :)

[Akujima]

I've been watching some videos on youtube of players who used to Ballista all the time back in 2007. It looks like alot of them were having fun with it. I don't think it would be a waste of time to implement a more expansive reward and gameplay system to PvP. There's so many jobs with so many different abilities and possibilities with job/subjobs, PvP would become a major hit.

But if the Dev's just change 1 thing about PvP, let it be the time constraints. It's really ridiculous to get a match going, considering how long it takes. Just give PvP more accessibility at least.

And I still think adding all those things I mentioned, wouldn't hurt at all.

[Volkai]

I honestly think the best way to revive Pvp is to make a new centralized area in a major hub.

You mean like Diorama - Abdhaljs Ghelsba or Diorama - Purgonorgo, which are respectively in Ru'Lude Gardens and Upper Jeuno, both a short hop from the densely populated Port Jeuno?

[Hotsume]

I'd really like another shot at Ballista Royale. Galka BRD is OP.

Seriously though, any support for Ballista would be welcome. Impossible to find enough people to start a match on my server.

[Akujima]

I'd really like another shot at Ballista Royale. Galka BRD is OP.

Seriously though, any support for Ballista would be welcome. Impossible to find enough people to start a match on my server.


I vote all hardcore PvP'ers interested in a full on revival of Ballista and Brenner, all transfer over to Asura and join my PvP LS "Versus"

All in favor, thumbs up!

[Volkai]

I vote all hardcore PvP'ers interested in a full on revival of Ballista and Brenner, all transfer over to Asura and join my PvP LS "Versus"

All in favor, thumbs up!
But you need at least two linkshells to have an LS Liga match....

[Akujima]

But you need at least two linkshells to have an LS Liga match....

That's not too hard a problem to solve lol... Just make another LS and allow everyone to be in both LS's

[Zaknafein]

You mean like Diorama - Abdhaljs Ghelsba or Diorama - Purgonorgo, which are respectively in Ru'Lude Gardens and Upper Jeuno, both a short hop from the densely populated Port Jeuno?

No that's not like what I mean. Thought I made that clear in my post let me try again. The problem with Diorama is that it's instanced. What PvP needs to be revitalized is an open area accessible without time constraints or an invitation like is needed for diorama.

The Coliseum idea would provide this setting. You could submit your request for 1v1, 3v3, or 6 on 6 matches. When the requirements for 2 equal teams or a 1v1 duel were met it would be posted into a list viewable by everyone present at the area. This would provide people the option to come either to participate or just to watch/bet on matches.

The open area combined with the option to just be there to watch would draw in new people who are curious about PvP, but don't want to jump right into it for fear of getting pwn'd because they are new. They wouldn't need to make awkward introductions to people they don't know just to get into an instanced PvP. They could check it out with no strings attached, and see the social atmosphere created by healthy competition, and the people there just to spectate/bet.

In this age of FFXI (and all MMO's unfortunately) where everything is instant gratification, and companies are catering more toward casual gamers the need for this centralized open area is crucial for reviving PvP. No matter what changes are made to Ballista, and Brenner it will not change the fact that new people are not going to go out of their way just to check out a new facet of the game they have yet to experience. It is a sad commentary, but that is the situation as it stands.

With this set up, and goals to be worked toward such as town gear models, costumes, furnishings etc. available only thru purchase with credits earned from PvP we could actually see a decent following. I can only hope SE will see the multiple benefits this offers not just to players enjoyment of the game, but also the boon to the company. Keeping players interested with content that is reused many times over yet doesn't get old is MMO gold!

[Akujima]

The open area combined with the option to just be there to watch would draw in new people who are curious about PvP, but don't want to jump right into it for fear of getting pwn'd because they are new. They wouldn't need to make awkward introductions to people they don't know just to get into an instanced PvP. They could check it out with no strings attached, and see the social atmosphere created by healthy competition, and the people there just to spectate/bet.

In this age of FFXI (and all MMO's unfortunately) where everything is instant gratification, and companies are catering more toward casual gamers the need for this centralized open area is crucial for reviving PvP. No matter what changes are made to Ballista, and Brenner it will not change the fact that new people are not going to go out of their way just to check out a new facet of the game they have yet to experience. It is a sad commentary, but that is the situation as it stands.

With this set up, and goals to be worked toward such as town gear models, costumes, furnishings etc. available only thru purchase with credits earned from PvP we could actually see a decent following. I can only hope SE will see the multiple benefits this offers not just to players enjoyment of the game, but also the boon to the company. Keeping players interested with content that is reused many times over yet doesn't get old is MMO gold!


Just the thought of these idea's sounds like so much fun.

*Thumbs Up*

Let's pray SE decides to hear us, because I would 100% stick around if FFXI PvP picked up... It has so much potential.

[Sama]

No doubt SE should add reward from PvP and the stats should be active at all time.

[Dart]

There is a huge learning curve to PvP in XI and there are systems in place to prevent 1 shotting, endless CC'ing of a single target, and many many many gear choices to help one bolster themselves against status ailments.

The gear restriction allows a person to have to pick what set and what role and what enemy they will be fighting against. A group or 1v1 situation, the people who hate the gear restriction aren't smart enough to tie their own shoes, because understanding and analyzing a situation and making gear for it should be a fundamental skill every FFXI player should possess.

There are still a lot of people who enjoy PvP but the simple fact is they don't even know when its occuring and the signup/method for doing it is rather esoteric. Anyone who left to WoW for PvP promptly went other places or returned, I being one of them. I find the system horrid and too (RNG) driven.

I support the ideas of this post and it would not take drastic overhauls to revive ballista. All that they have to do is give 30,000exp a piece to the winning team and probably 40,000-50,000g and I guarantee people would show up.

Or just add titles or cosmetic things, it really wouldn't take much.

If they had a broadcast in lower Jueno when matches were starting, and if matches weren't so picky about starting, a million bored people would jump up and do it for the sheer fact that there is not a lot to do.

I don't see how anyone who PvP's at the 40cap expects to be taken seriously, but if you get to the max level which takes about 4 hours I'll play you. As far as game breaking things, I'm a DRK, not a BLU or a RDM or a BLM, and these 'game breaking' things are just mythical things that people who /cough play 40cap /cough tote around to try to harm the integrity of the system.

holy crap, urteil and i agree on something

[Zaknafein]

Just the thought of these idea's sounds like so much fun.

*Thumbs Up*

Let's pray SE decides to hear us, because I would 100% stick around if FFXI PvP picked up... It has so much potential.

Thank You ^^ We can only hope right :) I'm fairly optimistic they will see the long term potential. They have a lot on their plate atm. While saying remove the "pit" and add this, and this idea is easy I understand it's no small task programming wise. I am pleasantly surprised by this last update. I feel it was one of the better updates in a while. Only thing I was nonplussed about was the void watch. Was really hoping for something new that didn't mimic abyssea. My ls hasn't done it yet as we are still doing a round of Empy's so I won't condemn it till I have tried it personally.

All in all I think they are headed in the right direction. I understand the need to market to casual gamers. I am just keeping my fingers crossed that 99 endgame will have two tiers. One for casual gamers, and one with the difficulty of 75 endgame.

[Wenceslao]

Yeah, as you, i hope SE hear us, or at least read this post and give us a comment at least XD

[Urteil]

Move to Phoenix, we PvP all the time brah.

[Urteil]

BLU isn't as nearly as good as you think, and RDM can be circumvented by gear combinations and setups to resist key enfeebles.


'PvE People' are often just as if not more competitive than PvP people, they just go about doing it in the most ass-backward way possible, competing within team events to be better than everyone else or DO MOAR DEEPS.

What I don't understand is why they lie to themselves about being competitive whe you see the most disgusting forms of competitive jealousy pop out amongst competing HNM shells.

Not to say that PvP people don't do that it certainly happens but its really funny to see PvE people for a second claim they aren't competitive.

So the only difference is, why be competitive about 'helping each-other', and then say being competitive about killing the other isn't out of the ordinary, and foreign to you.

"Your gear sucks, mine is better." Or "This guy sucks because he uses this instead of this."

Thats competition, you all breathe it, and eat it, and live it. So why not drop your nuts and just smack the shit out of each other, since the animosity and ego is already there.

And FYI every Final Fantasy game is about you trying to kill X guy, for about 3 discs, then you find out he's really Y and you have to use A B and C to kick his ass.

PvP.

[Luvbunny]

The fastest way to get people interested again is to do the following:
- Create a set of accessories for back, neck, waist, rings and earrings that have pretty damn good stats where you can use balista points to acquire.
- Let seals or key items to pop NM dropped from the crate if you won or did certain amount of damages.
- A way to obtain dyna money via Ballista

Those 3 changes will make PvP and Ballista extremely popular :)

[Ravenmore]

Yes blu is as good as I think. So is rdm, Resist won't do crap unless you have a crappy rdm.

[Hotsume]

Yes blu is as good as I think. So is rdm, Resist won't do crap unless you have a crappy rdm.

COR can destroy a RDM.

[Akujima]

The fastest way to get people interested again is to do the following:
- Create a set of accessories for back, neck, waist, rings and earrings that have pretty damn good stats where you can use balista points to acquire.
- Let seals or key items to pop NM dropped from the crate if you won or did certain amount of damages.
- A way to obtain dyna money via Ballista

Those 3 changes will make PvP and Ballista extremely popular :)


Maybe adding something similar to Campaign Treasure Caskets would be alright... But this just seems like you're asking for more "Abyssea-like" content, something that does not need to be in PvP. What does need to happen, is PvP content that is easy and accessible. Something that holds the grip and interest of PvP'ers.

Also EXP and Gil from Ballista and Brenner is a good idea. Currently you have to PAY to enter Ballista and Brenner, which makes no sense at all. PvP shouldn't be frowned upon as such a negative thing from SE, it's a HUGE part of MMO's and making it interesting in FFXI (and possibily FFXIV) would do them alot of good.

[Arlan]

I don't understand why really. All In all you would just have to think more carefully about what kind of equipment you would wear full time, and you can still switch gear. You just get a penalty (a 10 second self stun effect), but if you're out of danger and you know there's like a BLM or someone that Sleeps you alot, you can equip an Opo-Opo necklace to get some TP while slept. Or something like an Insomnia Earring and +Darkness Resist for some resist sleep equipment.

PvP has alot of strategy to it. Personally I think the dynamics involved are overwhelming, but the Fun Factor is SO worth it.

I agree with Habiki tho.
The (10 second self stun effect) does ruin the pvp experience a lot.
At least for me it does. That is one of the reasons why I dislike current PVP system.
A lot needs changing.
Make Pvp a long fighting system but a fun fighting system without retarded restrictions is what I want. lol

Fun doesn't equal up to annoying "Restrictions".

[Akujima]

Fun doesn't equal up to annoying "Restrictions".


People have to realize why some restrictions are in place. Some restrictions are annoying, but others make sense. Restricting constant gear swapping makes sense, because the person targeting someone who swaps gear, loses that target. I said this in an earlier post, that people would swap gear just for the advantage of being untargetable.

Lowering the penalty time to 5 seconds seems better, but getting rid of the gear swap penalty would just be worse in the long run.

[Wenceslao]

People have to realize why some restrictions are in place. Some restrictions are annoying, but others make sense. Restricting constant gear swapping makes sense, because the person targeting someone who swaps gear, loses that target. I said this in an earlier post, that people would swap gear just for the advantage of being untargetable.

Lowering the penalty time to 5 seconds seems better, but getting rid of the gear swap penalty would just be worse in the long run.

And as well Ballista is a sport and as with all sports it has rules.

[Arlan]

People have to realize why some restrictions are in place. Some restrictions are annoying, but others make sense. Restricting constant gear swapping makes sense, because the person targeting someone who swaps gear, loses that target. I said this in an earlier post, that people would swap gear just for the advantage of being untargetable.

Lowering the penalty time to 5 seconds seems better, but getting rid of the gear swap penalty would just be worse in the long run.

Ok That makes sense since you put it "That way",
But 10 seconds stun is waaaaaaaaay to long for gear switching.
If anything, it should be 3 seconds stun penalty.
Cause my gear is macred on certain abilities so it ruins the fun entirely when I for example:
Use Jump Macro As DRG, and I change gear for jumping mode before I jump.
See, I get stunned when I use jump instead of jumping..
That alone ruins the fun, so even tho you lose target by switching gear, there must be a solution to this problem rather than "Restricting" it....

I think its the FFXI mechanics in switching gear in general is broken...
If they fixed that where you don't lose target when a player switches gear, a lot of things in ffxi would be solved.
Specially for mages who want to cast cure spells or buffs on other players lol

I'm a WHM I know... I have a hard time keeping people alive when they switch gear.
Who knows, maybe they can fix it but choose not to spend the money there? idk?

[Hotsume]

All that gear swapping nonsense can stay in PvE where it belongs. It's really not hard to put together a solid build based around your job/enemy team's jobs or to quickly write some ballista macros.

[Gallus]

Gear-swapping should not be frowned upon in PVP. It's been a key game mechanic in FFXI since its inception. A penalty (as I already mentioned, a 3 second bind effect should be more than enough) need to be in place to prevent people from abusing it while running away. That said, S-E could easily promote static sets of armor by instating caps on stats, attack, accuracy, m.acc, m.atk, evasion, etc while inside ballista.

[Habiki]

All that gear swapping nonsense can stay in PvE where it belongs. It's really not hard to put together a solid build based around your job/enemy team's jobs or to quickly write some ballista macros.

Most likely if the restriction stays in place noone will do it except for the people posting they think the restriction should stay, atleast there should be an option to turn gear swapping on or off inside PVP areas.

[Gotterdammerung]

Id enjoy if the game went full PVP everywhere except towns. Would breathe life and skill back into the player base.

[Volkai]

Id enjoy if the game went full PVP everywhere except towns. Would breathe life and skill back into the player base.

Maybe.

But I think it would more likely drive away a large number of players that are not simply uninterested but actively disinterested in PvP.

[Hotsume]

Most likely if the restriction stays in place noone will do it except for the people posting they think the restriction should stay, atleast there should be an option to turn gear swapping on or off inside PVP areas.

I really don't think a gear swap penalty is what's preventing people from PvPing. XI's community for the most part seems very against any form of PvP to begin with. Why would the ability to gearswap for every spell/JA/WS/emote/whatever stop you from enjoying ballista?

[Squirrels]

I really don't think a gear swap penalty is what's preventing people from PvPing. XI's community for the most part seems very against any form of PvP to begin with. Why would the ability to gearswap for every spell/JA/WS/emote/whatever stop you from enjoying ballista?

The reason it stopped me from enjoying Ballista is because I can't play my jobs as effectively as I can outside. I don't like being constrained to a single set of gear, no one does it outside PvP, so why be constrained to it inside. Granted the whole lose target thing sucks, but there are more ways to deal with that than just removing an essential part of the game itself.

Random: Currently, I think if you are attacking someone in Ballista and they switch gear, you only lose lock-on. Not 100% as I haven't played seriously since 07.

[Urteil]

Yes blu is as good as I think. So is rdm, Resist won't do crap unless you have a crappy rdm.

Resist traits do a lot, around 10% chance to resist per tier. In addition to making the duration last way shorter, in ballista resistances are greatly enhanced.

A BLU can only hit a target with its most powerful spells if they are CC'd, /sch is a very powerful tool against BLU on many jobs, SAM, DRK, ...MNK even.

[Urteil]

I really don't think a gear swap penalty is what's preventing people from PvPing. XI's community for the most part seems very against any form of PvP to begin with. Why would the ability to gearswap for every spell/JA/WS/emote/whatever stop you from enjoying ballista?

Its because the community is dwindling down to housewives and weenies, and is quite honestly the biggest bunch of sissies I've ever seen.

[Akujima]

Its because the community is dwindling down to housewives and weenies, and is quite honestly the biggest bunch of sissies I've ever seen.


Love this post <3

[Akujima]

I have recently started a PvP LinkShell on Asura, and we've been doing some 3v3 Ballista, Brenner and Diorama lately. It's been quite fun and I ask any of you who are interested and on the Asura server, to send a /tell to Shinjima in game if you're interested in a linkpearl.


On another note, I see that they are working on revisions to Campaign and Nyzul Isle, and would like to therefore ask the Dev team if they could give a response to the chances of an update for the current PvP system. If you could let all us Ballista/Brenner fans out there know if it's possible that there may or may not be a future update to these events, that would be great.


I'm sure you'll be glad to hear that just as the dev. team is planning adjustments to Campaign and other content, both Nyzul Isle and the Assault system itself will be seeing changes in the future! While there aren't plans set in stone yet, they plan on handling adjustments in the order that the community speaks the loudest about (so keep that feedback coming!).

I love the idea of adjustments to Campaign and Nyzul, and am looking forward to them, and it's great to see that the Dev team is posting more replies to our idea's and suggestions, so thank you for that Camate and friends~

Also, I encourage everyone who enjoyed Ballista/Brenner to give more feedback to this thread. Doing so could possibly see the changes we would like to see in PvP, such as ease of access and better rewards. If you loved doing Ballista or Brenner, and would like to see it make a come back, please post with more idea's on how to revive it^^.

Thanks guys and take care.

[Harukusan]

I've always loved Ballista and PvP on FFXI in general. It is my personal belief that there is nothing directly wrong with the system. Yes, the inability to swap gear seems like a drawback, but it also creates another "challenge" (although not so challenging) to build the perfect equip sets based on the situation of each team. IE: What jobs are on either team, and how skilled at Ballista the participants are.

My only wish is that Ballista become more accessible in Diorama as well as official matches:

For Diorama, simply lifting the Ballista point requirement to register the area would promote more use of it, as official matches are so scarce these days.

My server hasn't seen a Ballista match follow through in well over two to three years due to lack of participants, thereby resulting in cancelled matches. By alleviating the minimum participant prerequisite, obtaining Ballista points to be used for Diorama and temporary items would be a snap.

Whether this will make Ballista more enjoyable to a larger player base or not is not what I'm really concerned about. People who are not interested in PvP probably wouldn't participate anyway. So, I only ask that it be more readily accessible to those of us who do wish to partake in a little conflict.

I don't want new goodies. I don't really want much change in it at all. I won't argue against the idea of adding new rewards. All I want is to play for fun and for the competitiveness that was once among us in earlier years.

If anyone on Ragnarok wants a run for their money, come talk to me. :)

[Vyiv]

"Reviving" Ballista on a server that hasn't had Ballista since 2005 or whenever it stopped is more or less along the lines of impossible. Inviting people who are interested in Ballista to a server without Ballista is like asking them to walk into a pit, getting stuck on a random server for three months, as well as tossing away money for the transfer fee. The best option for anyone who seriously wants to play Ballista on a competitive level is to transfer to a currently Ballista active server. From my knowledge, such servers only include Gilgamesh (or whichever server Gilgamesh merged with) and Lakshmi.

[Urteil]

Bump.

All the Dev team has to do is give better rewards for actually participating in matches:

Easy Things:
Give 5,000 conquest points to every person on the winning team, and 2,500 points for the losing team. (This allows people to fuel their voidwatch activities, and get CP.) Hell it wouldn't be a bad idea to let people pick which regional points they wanted, and have the values adjusted accordingly.


Give 35,000g to every participant on the winning team, and for high scorers give them a bonus (+25% +50%)
Give 15,000-20,000 experience points to every participant on the winning team.
Give the nation that wins a match a HUGE boost towards controlling that conquest area.


Slightly Harder Things:

Create a cosmetic for people to aquire with Ballista points such as an emote, or an aura (You've done this on armors and made a new emote.)

Interesting consumables: Teleportation items, Potions and Elixirs to be used in battle, actual revitalizers that can be used in battle.

Its as simple as making a DEF:1 Neckpiece that has the title "Shadowy Star" (ie- Dark Knight Ballista title.) That gives a graphic effect.

There should be other ones of course, the previous is a minor example.




Phoenix has a decent Ballista community, but like everywhere else in the game its mostly populated by sissies who think PvE is hard in this game, and being able to create .xmls and switch from 60~ pieces of gear on the fly with macros, and rotating a TP -> WS set is hard.

[Leonlionheart]

Bump because I actually want something to be done about PvP, and it seems Akujima may have disappeared to defend his last standing thread.

[Alhanelem]

I have been hosting periodic Player Events on Shiva to promote it. It has gone fairly well so far.

[Hotsume]

Managed to get an official 3 v 3 going on Sylph the other day. Shit is damn near impossible.

[Selzak]

I'd love a PvP revival. I think the main problem we have now is that it takes too much effort to do something that doesn't really offer a reward. You can tell by the direction that players tried to force (small groups doing 1v1's in Diorama) that what's wanted is a simpler, straightforward way of battling other players without any bells and whistles.

[Jamesruglia]

The appeal for me in PvP isn't about myself, it's about my nation. Things that support Bastok or would give us/me influence in Conquest or Campaign would get me fighting a lot more often.(Well, that and getting a PvP job leveled...)

I'd be more interested in Brenner, though. I mean, Bastokan exercize for a Bastokan knight and all...

[Akujima]

I'll post in this thread only from now on.

I did some uncapped today 4v4 Diorama. There was a DRG/SAM that was rocking people, and also a RDM with some nice PDT gear. The RDM was literally unkillable. But yea, it was fun stuff.

Anyhow, I've been able to rally at least 15 people who enjoy just doing PvP for fun. If any reward additions were made, I'm sure way more people would be doing PvP. Especially if that reward addition was PvP specific gear.

[Akujima]

I'd be more interested in Brenner, though. I mean, Bastokan exercize for a Bastokan knight and all...

Well if Ballista was made by Sandorians, and Bastok invented Brenner... They still need to make the Windurstian battlefield!

[Zaknafein]

Well if Ballista was made by Sandorians, and Bastok invented Brenner... They still need to make the Windurstian battlefield!

Name it "MidgetMania"

[Harukusan]

Well if Ballista was made by Sandorians, and Bastok invented Brenner... They still need to make the Windurstian battlefield!

There already is one. It's called defeat the Dhalmels and smelly Galkas at the game of life.


Anyhow, I've been able to rally at least 15 people who enjoy just doing PvP for fun. If any reward additions were made, I'm sure way more people would be doing PvP. Especially if that reward addition was PvP specific gear.

The problem with adding Ballista specific gear is that it won't attract people who have no interest in Ballista. It's like feeding carrots to a lion. You can present it, and you'll find yourself on the lion's menu long before the carrot. If you really want outsiders to participate, there should be more cosmetic rewards such as the seasonal event gear you can obtain which changes you to a chocobo or a bat etc. Or anything else that would prove to be valuable to someone who would not normally compete in PvP.

Again I want to restate my opinion on the real matter: the actual problem with our PvP system is that it's not easily accessible to those of us who actually want to take part in it. There doesn't need to be more of a reward than the satisfaction that all your hard work obtaining high end gear and strategic knowledge didn't go to waste.

Ballista and Brenner are not hard concepts to grasp, yet many people just don't get it, and are easily turned off by it. Much like many other portions of the game that are much less challenging (actually are quite honestly a complete joke), some people just need to be taught properly how the game actually works. After they get the hang of things, then perhaps they may become interested in a "new" challenge which would be PvP. Hell, most nooblets don't gear swap as it is, it would be cake for them to switch from PvE to PvP without having to modify macros or anything.

[Akujima]

says stuff in the post above.


There has to be some kind of tangible reward for people. People are doing Abyssea like crazy because it gets them really nice equipment. They wouldn't be doing it, if there wasn't some kind of allure. I get that it would take quite awhile to implement sets of gear for each job, or "job type" (ie, Melee, Ranged DD, Healer's, etc). But those who are doing PvP for fun, would also be rewarded with more PvP equipment in order for them to continue doing PvP.

Things like Rings, Earrings or Belts with PvP specific effects. Such as an Earring that allows you to score more petra at one time or dig up more than 1 petra with each /quarry. Rings with "Resist ???" traits on them that have high resist amounts. Paralyze, Slow and Petrify are quite nasty in PvP, and having some Rings to help specifically with all those different effects would be nice. I know there are already PvE rings with such stats, but the PvP Rings could have more of an effect.

If people are to be kept interested in PvP, there has to be rewards for accomplishments. That's where the tournament idea comes in. Don't you think it would be awesome to spectate or participate in a 3v3 tournament? 8 teams of 3, square off in PvP match-ups, dueling it out to be known as the PvP champs. Where the winners walk home with a nice Trophy to mount up in their mog house, and everyone else gets respective trophies and consolation prizes.

I do agree with you that the restraints on time, and the possibility of matches not happening because someone dc's just before the battle, or you can't find 6 people who want to PvP for 1 hour straight. Matches should be lowered to 30 minutes tops, and should be more frequent than just one match every 2 hours.

Hopefully SE doesn't let the current PvP content go to waste though, we can only hope. It would be nice to hear a word from SE about it (/wave), even if the news is not so good.

[Leonlionheart]

Considering there have been little to no PvP updates since brenner (iirc), I highly doubt we will come across good news.

Although somehow I don't think it would take too much work, considering the main dynamic of PvP is already in play.

Pertaining to gear that is specific to PvP: Since they release maybe 200 pieces of gear per update, I doubt this would take priority over 95 cap and 99 cap gear, in both the eyes of the players and the developers. To bypass this however, I think an augmentation system using ballista points (or some type of tab like system similar to the one already used by FoV) would be quite fitting. That way there are three sets of gear: Mage, Heavy DD, Light DD that can all have preset augmentations that are specific to PvP and only work in such situations, such as: Latent: WS Damage Taken -10%.

[Arlan]

There already is one. It's called defeat the Dhalmels and smelly Galkas at the game of life.



The problem with adding Ballista specific gear is that it won't attract people who have no interest in Ballista. It's like feeding carrots to a lion. You can present it, and you'll find yourself on the lion's menu long before the carrot. If you really want outsiders to participate, there should be more cosmetic rewards such as the seasonal event gear you can obtain which changes you to a chocobo or a bat etc. Or anything else that would prove to be valuable to someone who would not normally compete in PvP.

Again I want to restate my opinion on the real matter: the actual problem with our PvP system is that it's not easily accessible to those of us who actually want to take part in it. There doesn't need to be more of a reward than the satisfaction that all your hard work obtaining high end gear and strategic knowledge didn't go to waste.

Ballista and Brenner are not hard concepts to grasp, yet many people just don't get it, and are easily turned off by it. Much like many other portions of the game that are much less challenging (actually are quite honestly a complete joke), some people just need to be taught properly how the game actually works. After they get the hang of things, then perhaps they may become interested in a "new" challenge which would be PvP. Hell, most nooblets don't gear swap as it is, it would be cake for them to switch from PvE to PvP without having to modify macros or anything.

Holy crap....
You just opened my eyes right there...
I actually think you might be right.

The reason why I came up with the "Instant Dual" idea is because of "Not being able to access pvp when ever I want." and I am one of those who dont participate in current FFXI pvp system mainly because of this and the rules I dislike for pvp battle.. Because of the limitations...

But ya, I can see what you are pointing out.
Its not the reward its the value and the system itself the way it is setup.

[Arlan]

BUT THATS WHY WE HAVE THIS THREAD!
lol To come up with our own ideas to see what SE can possibly do to help make pvp worth while and fun to do for all who wish to participate.

=) /cheers

[Hotsume]

Make the ballista license quest optional, offer EXP scrolls + CP to the winners, create cosmetic ballista rewards, add more ballista zones. Not only that, but make it easier to tell when the next matches are, people who don't regularly PvP aren't gonna check with the pursuivant all the time.

[Harukusan]

Holy crap....
You just opened my eyes right there...
I actually think you might be right.

The reason why I came up with the "Instant Dual" idea is because of "Not being able to access pvp when ever I want." and I am one of those who dont participate in current FFXI pvp system mainly because of this and the rules I dislike for pvp battle.. Because of the limitations...

But ya, I can see what you are pointing out.
Its not the reward its the value and the system itself the way it is setup.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll take the first guess with this: an open PvP "challenge" system would be great. If you just want to take part in a random duel or party battle with another group of people, the option should be open to take place anywhere you like (barring cities of course).


stuff

I have no issue with adding new rewards to attract more ballista-ignorant players to participate. My original reply was intended to merely state that adding rewards specific to Ballista will not attract players who have no interest or have no idea what Ballista is.

Ballista SPECIFIC rewards will not lure new/uninterested people in.

Give them seals and +2 upgrades to empy armor and you'll see people jump all over it... /sarcasm off

Although that last statement might actually be true, I don't think it will attract the sort of people who are there for the competition. They might frail under the influence of tough competition by players such as us who have years of experience on the Ballista battlefield. That can, of course, be balanced slightly with consolation prizes (lesser gil/exp/cp/etc rewards) as it always has been.

This is probably the 3rd, maybe 4th thread about Ballista and general PvP, and we still go without answers from SE's representatives, let alone the dev. team.

Clearly we are misrepresenting ourselves as people who are "already too loyal to quit" so they don't have to give a damn about us. Their main goals are to attempt to attract more people to make more profits. From a business standpoint, they are doing a so-so job. But as a loyal customer to this service, I expect at least some shed of light on what actually keeps me interested in the game. Ballista is one of the reasons I didn't quit the game over 5 years ago. And with the promise of better upgrades to the game as a whole, I've been nothing but disappointed. One person may not make a difference, but I'm not the only one who believes in this, merely one of the few who is willing to point that out.

[Dart]

I believe that lakshmi(spelling forgive me) has a fairly lively 60 cap scene going on hots (I know that for a couple years most people were going there or fenrir). I'm tempted...... since my small empy ls is slowly dying.

[Harukusan]

60 cap? I don't personally care about any sort of cap. A real test of ones' mettle is to prove their worth in an uncapped environment.

[Dart]

then a defensively geared, vereth mnk comes along and trucks your ass lmao.

[Harukusan]

then a defensively geared, vereth mnk comes along and trucks your ass lmao.

If they have the skill or experience, then by all means they deserve to beat my ass. But believe me when I say I won't, and will never go down without a fight that will open up their eyes to a new perspective. No one can just go in with that Abyssea attitude and whomp on anyone. A truly competitive and strategic Ballista player such as myself among many other who post here will know how to trump them with no problem.

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

[Akujima]

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

This ^

/close all other threads.

[Alhanelem]

I would really like to know if the dev team is able to consider even minor improvements to the Conflict system.

[Seyrena]

I just want 1v1 dueling.

[Arlan]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'll take the first guess with this: an open PvP "challenge" system would be great. If you just want to take part in a random duel or party battle with another group of people, the option should be open to take place anywhere you like (barring cities of course).



I have no issue with adding new rewards to attract more ballista-ignorant players to participate. My original reply was intended to merely state that adding rewards specific to Ballista will not attract players who have no interest or have no idea what Ballista is.

Ballista SPECIFIC rewards will not lure new/uninterested people in.

Give them seals and +2 upgrades to empy armor and you'll see people jump all over it... /sarcasm off

Although that last statement might actually be true, I don't think it will attract the sort of people who are there for the competition. They might frail under the influence of tough competition by players such as us who have years of experience on the Ballista battlefield. That can, of course, be balanced slightly with consolation prizes (lesser gil/exp/cp/etc rewards) as it always has been.

This is probably the 3rd, maybe 4th thread about Ballista and general PvP, and we still go without answers from SE's representatives, let alone the dev. team.

Clearly we are misrepresenting ourselves as people who are "already too loyal to quit" so they don't have to give a damn about us. Their main goals are to attempt to attract more people to make more profits. From a business standpoint, they are doing a so-so job. But as a loyal customer to this service, I expect at least some shed of light on what actually keeps me interested in the game. Ballista is one of the reasons I didn't quit the game over 5 years ago. And with the promise of better upgrades to the game as a whole, I've been nothing but disappointed. One person may not make a difference, but I'm not the only one who believes in this, merely one of the few who is willing to point that out.

I was not sarcastic...
sorry if it turned out that way lol.

[Zaknafein]

Damn, 9 pages, and no Dev input <sadface>

[Alhanelem]

I just want 1v1 dueling.
I just want no 1v1 dueling. Really, everything in the game has always been built around groups, the game is balanced around groups.

[Harukusan]

I just want no 1v1 dueling. Really, everything in the game has always been built around groups, the game is balanced around groups.

That's the way the game was built originally. In today's FFXI, you are more open to choices as to whether you want to play in groups (large or small) or solo. PvP is not so different in that respect. I enjoy 1v1 dueling as well as large group competition. It should not be limited to just one idea, but feature several options as to how you want to participate.

It's all about personal choice.

[Andrien]

I'm from Bismarck, and I'm all in for ballista pvp in FFXI, and FFXIV. Everything that was mentioned in the first post of this thread I heavily agree with. when pvp first came out my server used to always play but now for years nobody is interested. Maybe it is the lack of good rewards that nobody seems to want to waste their time on.

To fix the gear swapping issues, how about making Ballista type gears for only ballista. They got to look epic and cool, no lame looking stuff. They should be powerful enough so players wont even have to bother about swapping gears and what not. Personally I don't swap gears, but it seems like an issue for everyone else.

Are you reading this SE?

[Alhanelem]

That's the way the game was built originally. In today's FFXI, you are more open to choices as to whether you want to play in groups (large or small) or solo. PvP is not so different in that respect. I enjoy 1v1 dueling as well as large group competition. It should not be limited to just one idea, but feature several options as to how you want to participate.

It's all about personal choice.For me its about having a good ballista match and then having someone crying because you attacked them when they were supposedly trying to have a "1v1." People will use that as a shield in a ballista match which hurts the game for the other players in the match.

I mean, I would be fine with a special place for it (e.g. the colosseum), but I would fear that this will be all people would want to do despite that neither PvP nor most of the rest of the game was built around it- There are glaring imbalances with specific jobs against other jobs that disappear when you put them in a team environment. Thing is these imbalances are simply due to the nature of each job's typical role.

For conflict to succeed, the developers should play to its strengths, I guess is what I want you to get from this.

[Leonlionheart]

If they have the skill or experience, then by all means they deserve to beat my ass. But believe me when I say I won't, and will never go down without a fight that will open up their eyes to a new perspective. No one can just go in with that Abyssea attitude and whomp on anyone. A truly competitive and strategic Ballista player such as myself among many other who post here will know how to trump them with no problem.

I think that's why no one participates, they are just too frustrated over the fact that they couldn't handle themselves in a PvP situation. Most melee these days are accustomed to having a WHM backing them, relieving them of any fear of failure. Well in Ballista, you will be reintroduced to something called "skill". "Skill" is something people used to obtain with experience in the game long before Abyssea was ever thought of (thank you SE).

what is this crap?

Yeah PvP is harder and takes more skill, but I've gotten more personal experience actually PLAYING the game in Abyssea.
Not some made up currency that increases your level, but actual gameplay experience. I'd never be as good as I am now if I was dicking along leveling my jobs on no brainer mobs. In Abyssea there are a plethora of mobs with dozens of different abilities and situations where you actually need to use your head.

Even if it is easy you won't beat Pantokrator without a brew just going in your crap gear with your unique snowflake attitude thinking you know something.

Leveling up the old way is a horrible example of how experience should be obtained, because it was easy as crap (as in no real skill needed/obtained), but long as getting a damn PHD.

To top it off, because of Abyssea they would be able to enjoy the high end of several different gameplay jobs without a painstaking horrible experience with the game.

Back on subject: If there was a reason to PvP (Unique PvP gear) then people would immerse themselves in it like they have Abyssea.

[Harukusan]

To fix the gear swapping issues, how about making Ballista type gears for only ballista. They got to look epic and cool, no lame looking stuff. They should be powerful enough so players wont even have to bother about swapping gears and what not. Personally I don't swap gears, but it seems like an issue for everyone else.

This is the argument I've been looking for. You want to alleviate gear swapping while maintaining a certain balance in gear selection, then you can create Ballista specific gear.

However...

As far as I'm concerned, gear DOES make a difference, but part of Ballista is knowing how to properly gear yourself to suit the situation of the battlefield. Not the other way around. We shouldn't have to rely on gear designed for Ballista to relieve us of this "issue". It may be a nice alternative, and a gateway to invite new participants, but it should not be the solution.


Are you reading this SE?

They do read every thread, just to make sure we aren't bad mouthing each other. If someone were to suddenly break down and insult everyone they would step in and say "hey! stop doing that!" Otherwise, we probably will never get a response because they don't really give a shit, we're just the minority.

[Harukusan]

what is this crap?

Yeah PvP is harder and takes more skill, but I've gotten more personal experience actually PLAYING the game in Abyssea.
Not some made up currency that increases your level, but actual gameplay experience. I'd never be as good as I am now if I was dicking along leveling my jobs on no brainer mobs. In Abyssea there are a plethora of mobs with dozens of different abilities and situations where you actually need to use your head.

Even if it is easy you won't beat Pantokrator without a brew just going in your crap gear with your unique snowflake attitude thinking you know something.

Leveling up the old way is a horrible example of how experience should be obtained, because it was easy as crap (as in no real skill needed/obtained), but long as getting a damn PHD.

To top it off, because of Abyssea they would be able to enjoy the high end of several different gameplay jobs without a painstaking horrible experience with the game.

Back on subject: If there was a reason to PvP (Unique PvP gear) then people would immerse themselves in it like they have Abyssea.

Well well well. Where to begin :)

First of all, unlike most of you, I have defeated many higher end game NMs. I've beaten AV, PW, and many others among those "impossible" NMs before the level caps were raised and after the fixing of exploitation issues several years ago. Oh and let's not forget about Pantokrator, Shinryu, Rani and Raja. The supposed new "challenges". What a freakin' joke. I mean, none of them actually require a brew to beat, and I've taken all of them down without one. You need to question your play style and the people you play coordinate with if you can't do so otherwise.

Exp was never the issue, and that was never brought up in this topic, I'm not sure why you did. If you couldn't level a job then, you automatically fail in my book. I leveled 12 to 75 long before Abyssea was ever thought of. Now have 13, maybe soon to finish WHM, because ToAU/WotG jobs are stupid and almost completely useless, especially nowadays. Sorry Blu fans, I will make you fall to your knees in Ballista.

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

Anything else?

[Dart]

honestly I like ballista as is, just wish that I could find a server that did it regularly. Not being able to gear swap adds a nice degree of difficulty and as previously mentioned. Makes you really think about how to gear/play your job.

I'm like the guy above as well. Beaten everything and I mean everything in the game. ballista is fun with friends and a little good old "haw haw I keeled you" /sitonbody. chuckles lol.

[Leonlionheart]

Well well well. Where to begin :)

First of all, unlike most of you, I have defeated many higher end game NMs. I've beaten AV, PW, and many others among those "impossible" NMs before the level caps were raised and after the fixing of exploitation issues several years ago. Oh and let's not forget about Pantokrator, Shinryu, Rani and Raja. The supposed new "challenges". What a freakin' joke. I mean, none of them actually require a brew to beat, and I've taken all of them down without one. You need to question your play style and the people you play coordinate with if you can't do so otherwise.

Exp was never the issue, and that was never brought up in this topic, I'm not sure why you did. If you couldn't level a job then, you automatically fail in my book. I leveled 12 to 75 long before Abyssea was ever thought of. Now have 13, maybe soon to finish WHM, because ToAU/WotG jobs are stupid and almost completely useless, especially nowadays. Sorry Blu fans, I will make you fall to your knees in Ballista.

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

Anything else?

I don't disagree with you, but you did say something about experience that was vague and could have been interpreted in several ways.

Also: pics or it didn't happen.

[Harukusan]

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP. :)

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

[Dart]

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

[Harukusan]

ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

This certainly does catch my interest! Now, who wants to be my guinea pig?

[Leonlionheart]

It goes both ways really. Gaining experience points to level up jobs in Abyssea and gaining most of your in game experience from Abyssea are both pretty much the same. 97% of all NMs in Abyssea are trash that often drop useful items, and hold no real credibility toward anyone's accomplishments. I'm not saying camping kings for 4 hours a day was a challenge, but there were always NMs far more challenging that didn't always require spamming for claim. AV, PW, Wyrms, Sandworm (I guess), and many others, that, as briefly pointed out in an earlier post, were designed for large group coordination. I'd show screen shots but unfortunately I only have a couple of SS of AV's drops. I'd be glad to fight Pantokrator again without the use of a brew though, it's not difficult to figure out it's patterns (or to not screw up for that matter).

And now back on topic again...

Keeping larger scale Ballista matches in mind, if you were in or currently do reside in a large linkshell where everyone can function properly together to take on NMs and other fights and tasks, you can essentially do the same in Ballista. A major key factor in Ballista is coordination, and that's one of the reasons why some matches weren't so great. This is where you take your actual in game experience and put it to use in a new environment. Not as one set strategy, but using the knowledge of everything you've gone through. And to top it off, your equipment is restricted to one set at a time, not that you can't change it to suit your needs, but once you start fighting you better hope you switched off your main macros. I've got books of macros specifically for Ballista, mainly for DRK, PLD, SAM, DRG, WAR, THF, RNG, BLM, and RDM. I've been meaning to add more jobs but since no one wants to play mario'spunch-off with me in Diorama or anywhere else I haven't felt the need to. I want to see what my Ukon and Kannagi can do in PvP. :)

Random side note: ever get charmed in Besieged with Lv.3 Aftermath on around a group of unsuspecting people? BLMs and DNCs didn't like Kannagi very much.

ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

[Alhanelem]

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

[Harukusan]

Camate: PLEASE try to get us some answers about PvP. Is the dev team willing to do anything that might revitalize the system a little? It doesn't have to be anything big...

Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

[Alhanelem]

That's something that better belongs in a new thread.

Frankly I want to dispel the popularity of 60 cap.... Level caps have been removed everywhere else in the game... a lot of people don't keep good gear for different levels handy anymore, and level sync makes 90% of gear above the level equivalent to wearing paper. On top of that some jobs, particularly the newer ones except for BLU and DNC, really don't start to shine until after 60 and this is all the JP community does. If people think gear is less of an impact at 60 cap, they're dead wrong; if they think the game is "less balanced" at higher levels, they're also wrong. The metagame is a little different and there are some mostly minor shifts in balance of power (e.g. the afformentioned underpowered jobs are able to compete), but beyond that, every uncapped event I've ever done has been just as if not more enjoyable than the lv60 ones.

[Leonlionheart]

Shameless bump.

I want these Ballista topics to go from "please please please fix Ballista for us" to battle strategies, gearing tips, etc threads for newer Ballista and advanced players.

Make a thread in the battle forum or something for that, this is obviously not the place.

[Hotsume]

That's something that better belongs in a new thread.

Frankly I want to dispel the popularity of 60 cap.... Level caps have been removed everywhere else in the game... a lot of people don't keep good gear for different levels handy anymore, and level sync makes 90% of gear above the level equivalent to wearing paper. On top of that some jobs, particularly the newer ones except for BLU and DNC, really don't start to shine until after 60 and this is all the JP community does. If people think gear is less of an impact at 60 cap, they're dead wrong; if they think the game is "less balanced" at higher levels, they're also wrong. The metagame is a little different and there are some mostly minor shifts in balance of power (e.g. the afformentioned underpowered jobs are able to compete), but beyond that, every uncapped event I've ever done has been just as if not more enjoyable than the lv60 ones.

60 caps are significantly more balanced than uncapped is (It was retarded at 75 cap, I can't even imagine at 90). BLU is good in 60 caps it just isn't OP, DNC is mediocre but that's to be expected. There really aren't any uselessly bad jobs in 60 caps and only a couple of slightly overpowered ones. It's the most popular ballista for a reason (Also the most fun, imo).

[Alhanelem]

Please, community team, we want to know if the dev team can consider any tweaks, adjustments or additions to Ballista or Conflict in general.

I do have one last thing to add to this topic. Please, eliminate lv30/40/50 caps. No one wants to do those. Only have 60 and uncapped (I would rather not have any caps at all, but I know a lot of people DO enjoy 60 cap), and possibly make the schedule earth time based.

[Dart]

ITT: zerging a NM with perfect defense up is hard

some of us used the wall lock exploit~~~~

[Akujima]

LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.

No caps in PvP would make it less popular as a result that everyone would therefore be required to first hit Max Level on whichever job they would decide to play, in order for them to have a fighting chance in Conflict. Not to mention the amount of time it takes to obtain Max Level endgame content gear, they would be too engrossed in PvE, it would make PvP just a burden to participate.

That's why I call for PvP specific equipment, which you obtain from doing PvP.

[Alhanelem]

LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.If anyone ever actually played it, I would agree. But no one does. People don't PvP at low levels at all except in games where the whole thing is based around PvP. And then, you don't have a use for level caps either.

NOBODY does lv30-50 ballista. If you DO want to do it, there's still the diorama for that. But those caps should be removed from the official match schedule.

[Akujima]

If anyone ever actually played it, I would agree. But no one does. People don't PvP at low levels at all except in games where the whole thing is based around PvP. And then, you don't have a use for level caps either.

NOBODY does lv30-50 ballista. If you DO want to do it, there's still the diorama for that. But those caps should be removed from the official match schedule.


That's why the new time construct in my original post fits the best. If that were implemented, then a constant Lv30, Lv60 and Uncapped Battle would be happening all the time.

[Ketaru]

The reason I say PvP requires more skill is because when competing against actual people who know wtf they are doing, you are no longer on a single set strategy like you are against most HNMs. PvP requires quick adaptation to constantly changing situations which you might not always be ready for. If you can adapt to your situation, you can overcome it. You can't read up Wiki on how another person might react to your actions. If it were me, I would make sure your HP hits 0.

That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.


ukko's fury one shots people even with giant's drink on lol

Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

[Alhanelem]

The mog sack/satchel made it a lot easier to stow macro gear without haivng to go to the moghouse or modify your macros. The only real reason for this restriction though, is because macro swapping gear would have been abuseable to make it difficult for people to target you. If only they could *cough cough* find a better solution for *cough* blinking, that restriction could be removed.

You offered some good input.

I suggested revamping the schedule, in order to give people more of what they want (e.g. the matches most people play) to increase the odds of there being a desireable match in player's prime times. 60 caps still happen sometimes on shiva, especially after the server merge. But they would probably happen a lot more often if they came up during the right times.

Cross server events, though almost sure not to be implemented, would also help Ballista a lot- It worked wonders for WoW when there wasn't always enough players on a server doing the first big PvP battleground for a match to start.


60 caps are significantly more balanced than uncapped is
Completely, totally, utterly, unequivocally false. It is not more balanced, nor is it less balanced. The metagame is different, and some jobs get a little stronger while others weaken a bit, but the end result is the same. Gear is no more of an issue at the uncapped tier, because there are still haves and have-nots for level 60 (especially since many people no longer carry gear for lower levels anymore other than their AF which is probably stowed on storage NPCs).

[Dart]

relics, empy, kraken clubs (Still quite useful in ballista). say otherwise.

[Dart]

That is certainly correct. But I think the real reason people don't particularly care about PvP is that it has very low applicability to the rest of the game.

Ballista discourages gear swapping while the entire rest of the game is built on it, for example. It's rough enough for most people to have to leave everything at home so their macros don't accidentally switch into other gear. But to also have to have a gear set that can even run contrary to how they gear for the rest of the game.

And generally you aren't gunning for moving targets, unless you're doing a kited fights. Even if it is kited, you can generally predict what direction the target is going in. A BLM could time his nukes accordingly. In Ballista, a person will see a BLM casting spells and they will generally do one of two things: switch targets and do something to stop the BLM, or run in the opposite direction. This is not typical mob AI behavior.

You can learn a lot about the mechanics of your job through Ballista, the various benefits and disadvantages of certain playstyles, the downsides to abilities or spells you generally never have to think about, or have an element of surprise against players who don't know the full capabilities of certain jobs simply because they never really see it in practice in the rest of the game (Ballista is the only reason I have Feral Howl merits capped for BST. It's like an instant ability Stun that ignores shadows and is not a spell so it can be used on the run).

But a lot of that knowledge really goes wasted in the rest of the game because- let's face it- the AI in this game is generally very stupid. It's the AI that casts Silena on itself when Silence wears off (I haven't tried it yet, but I bet they cast Stona on themselves if you cast Break on them too). It's the AI that casts Sleep on players that have DoT on. It's the AI that casts single target nukes on players that can clearly put up Utsusemi. It is by the grace of simply being overpowered that the toughest enemies in this game are tough. They aren't actually capable of outsmarting players.

In the rest of the game, you can use Retaliation in good faith that the mob is not going to suddenly disengage and starting firing off spells or ammo at you. You can use shadows knowing that it is not going to intentionally use Area spells to clear them. You can be a pet job knowing that the mob doesn't actually know the master is the easier of the 2 units to kill. You can rely on enmity to keep your mob away from your healers. You can count on it that mobs don't predict how much TP you have so they can sidestep you or put up their defenses at just the right moment.

Unfortunately, it's really everything that makes Ballista a unique and enriching experience that also makes it unapproachable to the majority of the player base. We, on Siren, were lucky enough to have a few uncapped matches recently because one player took the initiative to shout and start sending /tells around to people who were dedicated Ballista players prior to the level cap increase. And for that, I am grateful to him. I was just beginning to wonder why I still even play Final Fantasy XI, since I always used to say I would lose all reason to play if Ballista died. Up until now, Ballista hasn't taken place in almost a year and a half.



Somebody's not wearing enough PDT.

only 3 jobs have survived ukko's.

defensively geared rdm, mnk, blu.

Of course if sekka is up i'm self lighting them and 2 shotting even a mnk.

War in uncapped used to be average at best. Now with ukon its a damn monster.

and for the love of god have any of you guys played with fell cleave? I"m always begging a mage to invis me lmao.

also going to give some serious props to masamune sam's. The ability to self light all the time is ridiculous.

[Harukusan]

LvCaps promote new players who haven't had the opportunity to fully gear out their jobs yet, to be able to participate fairly in PvP.

No caps in PvP would make it less popular as a result that everyone would therefore be required to first hit Max Level on whichever job they would decide to play, in order for them to have a fighting chance in Conflict. Not to mention the amount of time it takes to obtain Max Level endgame content gear, they would be too engrossed in PvE, it would make PvP just a burden to participate.

That's why I call for PvP specific equipment, which you obtain from doing PvP.

2 days to get to 90. 3 days after to gear said new job. Of course I'm not implying I want to get rid of capped matches, I rather just do uncapped all the time as a personal preference.

I've never liked 60 caps, let alone anything below that. 60 cap matches a SAM/RNG (for example) can destroy pretty much anyone in a matter of seconds. Utilizing a level cap does not promote balance, it significantly throws it off. Uncapped Ballista, on the other hand, allows for people to commit their full potential, especially in an actual team-based match, and overcome such "unbalance". With no level restriction, any job is capable of handling itself in most situations, barring noobs who don't know the basic mechanics of Conflict, or have any experience against an opponent that actually has the ability to think about their actions before setting them in motion.

Again, I'm not trying to throw off capped Ballista, because it can be fun if you play with friends who are newer to the game. My main hopes/priorities aim toward alleviating the restrictions that hold us from participating whenever we want. It's not hard to come up with 100 Ballista points to open Diorama, but without sufficient players to make an official match happen (in order to build Ballista points) we are stuck at a dead end. No one participates in official matches. No one has access to Diorama. We have no PvP. And screw Brenner.

[Hotsume]

Completely, totally, utterly, unequivocally false. It is not more balanced, nor is it less balanced. The metagame is different, and some jobs get a little stronger while others weaken a bit, but the end result is the same. Gear is no more of an issue at the uncapped tier, because there are still haves and have-nots for level 60 (especially since many people no longer carry gear for lower levels anymore other than their AF which is probably stowed on storage NPCs).

Your only argument here is that people don't carry around 60 cap gear, which is a bit silly. How much will a decent set of 60 cap gear run you (assuming your AF is completely useless), like a few hundred k? The worst that can happen in 60 caps is losing 75% HP as a taru to a fully geared RNG. In uncapped MNK can just run around not giving a fuck unless he gets focused, COR/SAM can get instant GB with WS > meditate > QD x2 > WS, PLD is indestructible, DRK with k. club is broken, SAM can't do shit, RNG with k.club and gun is ridiculous. Again, this is just from my experience at 75 cap, I can't really imagine lv90 ballista.

Comparing 60 caps to uncapped is like comparing Super Street Fighter 4 to MvC3

[Alhanelem]

Your only argument here is that people don't carry around 60 cap gear, which is a bit silly.No, it's not the only argument. There is still better and worse gear at level 60.


In uncapped MNK can just run around not giving a fuck unless he gets focusedNonsense, MNK is completely and reasonably stoppable. Not that focusing the threat shouldn't be considered a reasonable strategy in a team game.


COR/SAM can get instant GB with WS > meditate > QD x2 > WSalso nonsense. I've yet to see a COR own anyone like this. It takes time for meditate to give you TP, if you're being WSed by a sam sub, you should know another WS is coming soon and react accordingly.


SAM can't do shitEXTREME nonsense. SAM is one of the better uncapped jobs, and can make any mage useless if he doesn't KO them outright with Gekko.


DRK with k. club is brokenK.club is rare and if you're talking about souleater, that's nerfed in ballista and isn't as strong. DRK seems to be such a rare sight these days anyway that it doesn't even matter.


PLD is indestructibleNo more so at 75~90 than at 60. PLD is SUPPOSED to be hard to kill. But they don't do as much damage.


RNG with k.club and gun is ridiculous a RNG up close is doing it wrong and is going to get his butt handed to him.

The biggest reason your post is full of crap is because you didn't even mention BLU, which I feel (along with virtually anyone you talk to) is pretty much the strongest job in ballista at ANY level, and is only balanced by lower defenses and lack of range.

The metagame IS different- But it's not unbalanced. It sure is more volatile, but that's part of what I think makes it more interesting. Please don't talk without recent experience, even if you were right about 75 (which you aren't),


Comparing 60 caps to uncapped is like comparing Super Street Fighter 4 to MvC3 I agree. But that doesn't mean one is 'more balanced' than the other.

No one truly likes level caps. That's why all the level caps on anything important were removed. Plus, for me, some of the jobs I play don't really start to shine until after level 60 and lack key abilities needed to be useful/functional at 60.

[Saefinn]

Sign me up. I'll look you up in game as we're on the same server. PvP can be harmless fun so long somebody doesn't take themselves too seriously. Only done PvP as DRK60 vs DNC70, I knew who was gonna win, but I did the whole smack, "I'm gonna win" talk anyway. But hey, I was bored and thought it'd be entertaining.

As for PvE vs PvP, I think it's great to have diversity, I don't think there'd be any kind of invasion of PvP, but it's just something fun that's in the game the more people could enjoy.

[Briarb19]

I posted in another thread before I noticed this one, so I'll post it here as well to see if people have any ideas to share. Some quick fixes that would breathe some life back into it:

An updated schedule. Get rid of or at least reduce low level caps, or even separate them from the much more popular 60/uncap matches.

New zones for both official matches and diorama, like Fort Karugo-Narugo, Nyzul Isle, or even home cities.

Atma and Cruor infused matches. This could make for a lot of fun.

Colosseum Type Matches. Can do anywhere from 1v1 up to 18v18 in quicker, small enclosed areas, maybe in the Colosseum, Throne Room, or Empyreal Paradox.

Incentives. These can be popular without being necessary, game breaking, or effecting PvE. Exp and Cruor is the most obvious one. Ballista specific augmentable gear is another. Let us design our own powerhouse sets for use in ballista only. Another option is to create specially awarded trophy gears which could also be augmentable with uses (like a teleport to all 3 cities or movement speed in all 3 cities). Perhaps even a small system for designing your own award gear's actual graphics. People like to look shiny and unique. Use your trophies to add an augment or update another aspect of the look to your ballista trophy gear (think the evolith gear that failed). By properly designing this award system to take into account player's successes while not dropping the ball for those not as skilled, the system could essentially allow people to create armor that shows off their ballista trophies or just simply look pretty.

I understand the issues with balance, but I think the effort in upkeeping this would be minimal if the Dev team just listens to the community and watches for anything polarizing popping up in uncapped or atma matches.

[Hotsume]

No, it's not the only argument. There is still better and worse gear at level 60.

Nonsense, MNK is completely and reasonably stoppable. Not that focusing the threat shouldn't be considered a reasonable strategy in a team game.

also nonsense. I've yet to see a COR own anyone like this. It takes time for meditate to give you TP, if you're being WSed by a sam sub, you should know another WS is coming soon and react accordingly.

EXTREME nonsense. SAM is one of the better uncapped jobs, and can make any mage useless if he doesn't KO them outright with Gekko.

K.club is rare and if you're talking about souleater, that's nerfed in ballista and isn't as strong. DRK seems to be such a rare sight these days anyway that it doesn't even matter.

No more so at 75~90 than at 60. PLD is SUPPOSED to be hard to kill. But they don't do as much damage.

a RNG up close is doing it wrong and is going to get his butt handed to him.

The biggest reason your post is full of crap is because you didn't even mention BLU, which I feel (along with virtually anyone you talk to) is pretty much the strongest job in ballista at ANY level, and is only balanced by lower defenses and lack of range.

The metagame IS different- But it's not unbalanced. It sure is more volatile, but that's part of what I think makes it more interesting. Please don't talk without recent experience, even if you were right about 75 (which you aren't),

I agree. But that doesn't mean one is 'more balanced' than the other.

No one truly likes level caps. That's why all the level caps on anything important were removed. Plus, for me, some of the jobs I play don't really start to shine until after level 60 and lack key abilities needed to be useful/functional at 60.

BLU is a given, did I have to mention it? About the COR thing, don't forget that QD gives as much TP as a RA while dishing out ridiculous instant free damage. SAM is good against mages (Definitely the anti-RDM) assuming their team isn't smart and doesn't focus the SAM down, I just don't feel that SAM can really stand up to the other melee jobs in PvP unless you play /RNG. 60 cap PLD survivability doesn't even compare to uncapped PLD. For everything else though I guess it's just a matter of opinion. To me, all jobs start to shine by lv60, sure BLU can't rape everything in sight at lv60 but that's not to say it's a bad job by ANY means in 60 caps. And honestly, I would LOVE to be able to argue over today's uncapped ballista, but nobody fucking does it anymore. :(

[Vyiv]

No one truly likes level caps.

Well, Selt, a well-respected JP player in the Ballista community, posted a recent video of a 30:30 game on Carbuncle (neo-Gilgamesh) of—guess what—Lv60 Ballista on his Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wb8Gm3Mw0M

I wonder how that tallies up.

[Harukusan]

The only lack of balance in an uncapped Ballista match is in individual players' Ballista experience and their own ability to gear themselves properly. Some jobs shine more than others, but that's only because the people who play them know what they're doing. Not because the jobs themselves are broken. Cap or no cap, Ballista has it's ups and downs in both situations. I generally refuse to participate in anything capped unless it's with good friends. So I guess you can say it's more about personal preferences than anything. You can't argue about unbalance when your opinion is already clearly biased.

[Dart]

lol hots did you notice that he didn't respond to what I said lol.

uncapped is broken if the other team has the right empy's. Absolutely broken. If you don't know this you either A. don't play with people who have empy weapons. B. play with people who suck. or C. you don't really ballista much

[Harukusan]

Empy weapons aren't exactly hard to obtain... Anyone on either side could get them. So that doesn't define unbalance, as either opposing team can still be equal. We aren't discussing "broken" we are discussing "balance." 60 cap has it's share of "broken" and "unbalance" in terms of lack of job abilities/traits that may give underprivileged jobs a fighting chance in uncapped. In uncapped, everyone gets to utilize every part of their job, and there certainly are ways around the "broken" jobs. Clearly you just have no clue how to figure this out for yourself.

[Vyiv]

uncapped is broken if the other team has the right empy's. Absolutely broken. If you don't know this you either A. don't play with people who have empy weapons. B. play with people who suck. or C. you don't really ballista much
Don't forget about condition D: All of the above.

This is actually one of the very few times that I actually agree with someone on these general forums in regards to Ballista. Dart, you're right.

[Akujima]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. Ballista is about having fun and that Video of Selt is amazing, I'm still watching it... I would so love to do something like that!

[Alhanelem]

Well, Selt, a well-respected JP player in the Ballista community, posted a recent video of a 30:30 game on Carbuncle (neo-Gilgamesh) of—guess what—Lv60 Ballista on his Youtube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wb8Gm3Mw0M

I wonder how that tallies up.
Such a video, though pretty darn cool, says nothing about what most people think about level caps in general. 60 cap's popularity is what keeps ballista to nothing more than a cult following. If the average joe is going to do PvP, he's going to want to be at his best while doing it, using all the tools at his disposal. I maintain that 60 cap's supposed better balance is just an illusion and the popularity of 60 cap is purely because of this belief.

----

You'd be suprised about emp weapons. They don't stand out as much as you think, outside of abyssea and especially in Ballista, where the damage reductions close the difference between weapons.

Gear is still a factor in 60 cap, and while the gap between the haves and the have nots is smaller, it's still there. You really need to remember what this is all about, though. Fun. Everyone was always having fun, whether I did a 60 or an uncapped. And that's what's most important. Also: Good skill overcomes good gear. Being a good player is far more important than anything else.

[Harukusan]

Good skill overcomes good gear. Being a good player is far more important than anything else.

hear hear!

And being a good player with substantial gear is where people get the idea uncapped is "broken!"

[Dart]

Such a video, though pretty darn cool, says nothing about what most people think about level caps in general. 60 cap's popularity is what keeps ballista to nothing more than a cult following. If the average joe is going to do PvP, he's going to want to be at his best while doing it, using all the tools at his disposal. I maintain that 60 cap's supposed better balance is just an illusion and the popularity of 60 cap is purely because of this belief.

----

You'd be suprised about emp weapons. They don't stand out as much as you think, outside of abyssea and especially in Ballista, where the damage reductions close the difference between weapons.

Gear is still a factor in 60 cap, and while the gap between the haves and the have nots is smaller, it's still there. You really need to remember what this is all about, though. Fun. Everyone was always having fun, whether I did a 60 or an uncapped. And that's what's most important. Also: Good skill overcomes good gear. Being a good player is far more important than anything else.

see my A., B., C. for detail.

I'm guessing that you play with people who suck. As for me i've seen them in action. A lot. They fuck people up majorly.

[Karbuncle]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. Ballista is about having fun and that Video of Selt is amazing, I'm still watching it... I would so love to do something like that!

Wish I could meet people on Asura who have "Fun" with Ballista.

Only people i see doing it are cocky A**Clowns who will gloat like a FPS player every time they get even the slightest win.

That and I always seem to be on the team that sucks and dies. >___> They all run into battle like a chicken with their head cut off and die horribly.

I don't see a lot of Ballista on Asura, i wonder if we even have a community for it. Don't even see Dhiorama or w/e going on much either.

[Alhanelem]

I'm guessing that you play with people who suck. As for me i've seen them in action. A lot. They fuck people up majorly. I'm guessing you're an elitist turd. No, I don't "play with people who suck." I've seen empy users get fed up by non-empy users, and vice versa. It certainly is stronger, but it doesn't make you an unstoppable killing machine.

Regardless, you're missing the point.

Thankfully, ever since our server merge, the JP have been doing ballista again.

They'd probably be doing it a lot more though, if the 30/40/50 caps were removed and it was 60cap and no cap only.

[Leonlionheart]

I think people are missing the point of this thread. Ballista is about having fun and that Video of Selt is amazing, I'm still watching it... I would so love to do something like that!

I'd love to do something like that too, would be super fun. I'd rather do it at 90 cap though honestly

[Dart]

I'm guessing you're an elitist turd. No, I don't "play with people who suck." I've seen empy users get fed up by non-empy users, and vice versa. It certainly is stronger, but it doesn't make you an unstoppable killing machine.

Regardless, you're missing the point.

Thankfully, ever since our server merge, the JP have been doing ballista again.

They'd probably be doing it a lot more though, if the 30/40/50 caps were removed and it was 60cap and no cap only.

as i thought, you play with empy users who suck.

[Dart]

Wish I could meet people on Asura who have "Fun" with Ballista.

Only people i see doing it are cocky A**Clowns who will gloat like a FPS player every time they get even the slightest win.

That and I always seem to be on the team that sucks and dies. >___> They all run into battle like a chicken with their head cut off and die horribly.

I don't see a lot of Ballista on Asura, i wonder if we even have a community for it. Don't even see Dhiorama or w/e going on much either.

at least you get to do it on occasion. It's completely dead on sylph. I've thought of leaving the server for a server that does PvP quite a bit recently. I miss it terribly and since there is no endgame and really no point after you farm your empy weapons anymore, just makes going to a server that does ballista frequently all the more appealing.

[Alhanelem]

Ballista has sort of revived on it's own on Shiva... lately it's been happening a lot :P

[Urteil]

Ballista has sort of revived on it's own on Shiva... lately it's been happening a lot :P

I'm trying hard over here, (Phoenix.)

[Harukusan]

It's dead on Ragnarok. There are too many people who don't even know what Ballista is, and put it off thinking it's nothing more than just Rock'em Sock'em style PvP. Too many people to be worth the effort of talking anyone individually into trying it when it's on a set schedule. If Ballista points weren't required to open Diorama, I would go in there by myself and just wait for people to show up!

[Urteil]

It's dead on Ragnarok. There are too many people who don't even know what Ballista is, and put it off thinking it's nothing more than just Rock'em Sock'em style PvP. Too many people to be worth the effort of talking anyone individually into trying it when it's on a set schedule. If Ballista points weren't required to open Diorama, I would go in there by myself and just wait for people to show up!

A Tarutaru I like.

[bungiefan]

I'm on Ragnarok and wanted to try it, check for me online when you are on, I should be playing tonight or tomorrow. I'm in the Alaska time zone, so it might be late for your time. I've got BLM WHM and SAM at level 70+. Only my BLM is at all geared well though.

[Mnejing]

60s are still lively as ever but 90s are starting to be active now on Lakshmi. :)

[Urteil]

To be perfectly honest.

Level 60/30/40/10/5/1/3/2/17 content isn't important anywhere outside of BCNM's (even then thats pushing it.)

PvP isn't any different.

[Zaknafein]

To be perfectly honest.

Level 60/30/40/10/5/1/3/2/17 content isn't important anywhere outside of BCNM's (even then thats pushing it.)

PvP isn't any different.

Here Here ^

[Andrien]

ballista still dead on bismarck :(

[Darkshade]

Love these ideas OP.

I'd also like more areas to be implemented. Yuhtunga or Yhoator Jungle anyone? Eastern Altepa Desert?

[pfrogs]

Changes I'd like the most:

- Tournaments: something like four 4~8-man teams, the winners of the first two matches would then play each other and the final winning team would get the pot of gil/points (could raise the participant fee higher for a more serious atmosphere).

- LS/Official teams and rankings: like the OP said but maybe you could register your LS with the Herald so when you earn points in a match it gets added to your LS ranking and at the end of every month it would calculate your linkshells points per match per person average and if your LS was first you'd get a special title/aura/hat for the month.

- Solution for 30/40/50 caps ''getting in the way'' + new areas: this idea is a little farfetched/silly but if they added 2-3 more areas (preferably for me, Xarcabard and Kahzam/Norg) that would be one area for each cap they have now. So there would always be a 30/40/50/60/uncapped happening or happening within the hour.

-Instant queue: maybe if there was a message that popped up every 15 minutes in a town (that could be turned off, of course) that was along the lines of "Ballista (level cap xx) in xx at xx, join the queue now) and under the party flag on tab there could be a join Ballista queue button and at 21:00 a message box would appear to teleport you to the area.

-Ideas to garner more interest: Higher EXP (2500, 5000 for winners), Ballista earned gear/items (If you could use your chevrons to buy things like Ballista relics or ammo/pet food+items/HQ food maybe even abyssea drop items?), Special emotes/fireworks/furnishings, Ballista Royale (maybe 2-3 times a year)

-Rooks giving HP/MP/TP: when you score a petra you receive 10 HP, MP, and TP, so when you score 5 it's 50 each (nothing too overboard but it would put more emphasis on scoring rather than killing)

That's all I can think of. :p

[Alhanelem]

Queues are stupid.

Gear has aleready been suggested.

Anyone who plays ballista already doesn't need an incentive to score. The only time you don't care is in the diorama; Elsewhere, especially JPs play a serious game.

LS battles: they tried this, no one did it. Next. (Though it was a confusing and difficult to use system).

Just eliminating 30/40/50 is the best way to redo schedule. No one wants to do those. I'd like new venues, but not by level cap.

[AyinDygra]

I just added a bunch of ideas about this as part of my ideal expansion. Just thought I'd add links to them here to add to the discussion.
Arena intro (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190164&viewfull=1#post190164)
Ballista specifically (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190166&viewfull=1#post190166)
New arena rewards (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/14365-My-Ideal-Expansion?p=190179&viewfull=1#post190179)
They seem to overlap with some of the other ideas presented here, but there are several new thoughts that I think will help to draw in a larger crowd and make it more fun for those who already enjoy it.

[Evviva]

Such an amazing read... kudos to all the ballistars who posted~

Shame on you dev team, 15 pages and not even one response!!

[Worldwise]

With everything going on with Abbyssa and Voidwatch It's like nobody wants to do Brenner nor Ballista or even Eco-Warrior no more.

[Evviva]

Eco-Warrior!
Good times :3

[Karbuncle]

I Haven't done Eco-Warrior since I was level 20 Back in 2003 ish... For good reason though, It kinda sucks all except for Low levels >_>

Way back in the day though, 5k Gil and a Exp Scroll was the shit.

[Alhanelem]

To be perfectly honest.

Level 60/30/40/10/5/1/3/2/17 content isn't important anywhere outside of BCNM's (even then thats pushing it.)

PvP isn't any different.
PvP can be played at level 99. Your argument is invalid.

And my post is stupid, because i didn't even look at the dates or my own dang post up on this page :confused:

[Urteil]

PvP can be played at level 99. Your argument is invalid.

And my post is stupid, because i didn't even look at the dates or my own dang post up on this page :confused:

What?

99 is what I PvP in because the maximum level is 99 or was 95, or 85, or 80 or whatever it was/is.

I am confused.

[Snoni]

When will PvP/Ballista/Brenner be active again on my server or other servers that are currently inactive? Not some 1v1 junk but the old school ballista team vs team scoring rooks etc. I missed the good old days, way to let off some PvE steam at least.

[Kristal]

Add a DOTA-style PVP system, perhaps?

[Umichi]

Work on ballista! lol im sure if more people get bored they might pvp now since everyone is on even grounds i suppose at 99....

[Spectreman]

All mini games in FFXI failed because they never bring rewards up par to the endgame events. And this game requires so much time and devotion to do the main events that just a miniscule minority bothers to touch anything else.

I won't even bother to list them all here. And i don't consider crafting a mini game.

[Snoni]

What servers now are actively doing ballista?

[Lithera]

None that I know of.

[Umichi]

You mean like Diorama - Abdhaljs Ghelsba or Diorama - Purgonorgo, which are respectively in Ru'Lude Gardens and Upper Jeuno, both a short hop from the densely populated Port Jeuno?


youll be surprised to find there is a pursuviant in each city willing to teleport you to any place for ballista along with volkais mentioning of teles to brenner

[Alhanelem]

Due to my frustration trying to get anywhere in PvE, an update to PvP is about the only thing that can bring me back to this game at this point...

(I can't get into a delve NM run to save my life- its rare that anyone ever shouts to fill one, nearly everyone has unlocked the gear they want and only does plasm runs now, leaving everyone who doesn't already have the unlocks they need high and dry)

[Twille]

Due to my frustration trying to get anywhere in PvE, an update to PvP is about the only thing that can bring me back to this game at this point...

(I can't get into a delve NM run to save my life- its rare that anyone ever shouts to fill one, nearly everyone has unlocked the gear they want and only does plasm runs now, leaving everyone who doesn't already have the unlocks they need high and dry)

^this.
SoA has not been a very friendly expansion sadly.