Our solo in abyssea is over~

[Khaoticligh]

The following issues will be fixed:

Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.


... Yay for making pdt axes, hours of work camping Okupete for his chain, hours of getting leg seals, redoing my moogle hat... spending hours of building fame in grauberg... only to see we wont be able to get 100% pdt anymore...

Even though technically our pets could still die to things... and it wasn't overly abused.
Thanks.

[Fadnog]

This is prolly a response to the thread about how -pdt% on pets is bs in the general discussion no doubt....

[Mirage]

Lol did you really think the dev team was gonna let this fly? :p

But hey, now you can roll with idk, probably -80% PDT and equip lots of DD atmas and kill things so much faster that you still won't need more than one or two jug pets :>

[blowfin]

Lol did you really think the dev team was gonna let this fly? :p

They let it fly quite openly by not patching it out when they patched Ducal Guard on SMN the first time.

Personally Im waiting for the update to see what happens. People are jumping the gun on this.

I mean geez, if 100% crit damage bonus is legitimate, why isnt 100% pet PDT?

If the change is actually nerf to pet damage down, then its a win for misconception and whining - and another kick in the guts for BST.

[Gallus]

They're fixing a glitch. Those -PDT items you've collected will still provide your pet with -PDT. You guys need to quit being prima donnas.

[Gotterdammerung]

i hope there not ruining pet pdt 100%

Its makes no sense to touch it.

Bst is designed to solo.

Right now a whm + ANY DD can do the exact same thing a bst with pet pdt 100% can do, probably MORE. (not to mention have a better shot at triggers.

And for those that want it nerfed just because they dont like waiting behind a 30 minutes bst solo. (You know the kind of people who think the order of the universe should be Linkshell>party>soloist)
All they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot by complaining.
Let me spell it out for you.
Bsts wont ever stop soloing. We will find a way to do it. Causing nerfs for us and making trouble for us just makes it harder but it wont make us stop. And harder simply equals longer fight times.

So congratulations, if this nerf goes thru all you did was double the time you have to wait behind a bst soloing.

[Siviard]

The person who started that QQ I'm /butthurt because a BST was soloing MY NM is Ilax, and that person is located on the Fenrir server.

If any of you BSTs also happen to be on Fenrir like me, lets {Gather together} and give Ilax something to REALLY complain about.

[Karbuncle]

Never understood how, In a game where they actually nerfed pets getting Samba Effects (a 'glitch' quickly fixed and far less broken, also Magic Mortar) that something like 100% immunity to Physical damage would remain untouched.

I have BST, SMN, DRG, and PUP, It was awesome, but it was seriously unrealistic if you guys thought that giving a pet "invincible" 100% of the time was not broken, with or without Atmas being involved. I hate its being fixed, But i saw it coming like a fiery meteor in the sky barreling towards earth.

That aside, your PDT axes aren't "Worthless", The cap could just be getting lowered to ~87.5% like Avatars, Which is still a hefty chunk considering Eta/Zeta Biscuits should cover the rest. It might limit your ability to solo somethings... I admit, but it was bound to happen. Far less "broken" things in this game have been nerfed, Its sad day, but it was bound to happen.


Lastly, Siviard, You need to grow up if you are seriously about to start stalking someone in a video game because of this. That's just absolutely ridiculous. Its a Video game, and its not that serious. that's open harassment and you will get suspended/banned for that if someone decided to report you. It does no good to get your account banned over something like this.

[Draylo]

Good, this was an obvious exploit. I saw a BST hold Hedjedjet for over 40m yesterday while his fail crew zombied it to death (not procing grellow I might add). No way they should let BST keep something as broken as this. S

[Draylo]

i hope there not ruining pet pdt 100%

Its makes no sense to touch it.

Bst is designed to solo.

Right now a whm + ANY DD can do the exact same thing a bst with pet pdt 100% can do, probably MORE. (not to mention have a better shot at triggers.

And for those that want it nerfed just because they dont like waiting behind a 30 minutes bst solo. (You know the kind of people who think the order of the universe should be Linkshell>party>soloist)
All they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot by complaining.
Let me spell it out for you.
Bsts wont ever stop soloing. We will find a way to do it. Causing nerfs for us and making trouble for us just makes it harder but it wont make us stop. And harder simply equals longer fight times.

So congratulations, if this nerf goes thru all you did was double the time you have to wait behind a bst soloing.

Are you kidding me? It makes no sense to touch something that lets you kill a NM while afk or take 0 dmg the entire fight? Do you see NOTHING wrong with this? People who do MNK + WHM have to actually do work still... Even gimp scrubs can't do most fights that people say "mnk + whm" it still takes some degree of knowledge. Tossing an invincible pet at a NM and going afk to make a sandwich does NOT take skill and is an obvious exploit.

[Siviard]

@ Karbuncle

I'm sorry, I'm just so sick and tired of people who are so obviously clueless about BST (Ilax has 90 BST, most likely keywhored for more cruor) and are so obviously biased against the job that they always seem to do anything they can to stomp on our necks and cave our throats in. And now her QQing was noticed by SE and guess what.....they actually listened, which I find absolutely astounding.

If you check out the PUP forums, there was a very eloquently written post by Anza detailing the current state of the job and everything that we as players who use PUP feel are problems with the job. This post was made right as the Official Forums came online. Result? No response whatsoever. But someone makes a /butthurt QQing post about BST and SE listens....unbelieveable.

But whatever, I'm done. I'll reserve judgment until after this update.

[Aldersyde]

Are you kidding me? It makes no sense to touch something that lets you kill a NM while afk or take 0 dmg the entire fight? Do you see NOTHING wrong with this? People who do MNK + WHM have to actually do work still... Even gimp scrubs can't do most fights that people say "mnk + whm" it still takes some degree of knowledge. Tossing an invincible pet at a NM and going afk to make a sandwich does NOT take skill and is an obvious exploit.

You honestly don't know what the flying friggin frig you're talking about. I can count on one hand how many mobs in Abyssea can actually be soloed with minimal effort without riding reward timers and having an optimal reward build. The fact that you assume that a pet takes no damage the whole fight shows you have no conception of how DG guard actually works. Why don't you go back to bg and keep trying to convince them blu is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Leave bst business to the bsts.

[ShadowHeart]

i bet all these whining cry babies never invite a beast, smn , puppet to a party or help them get their seals

they cant charm in abyssea have no proc's so no one ever wants them they have 1 good thing finally after years of getting stiffed and one crying little baby screams and they are screwed again .... lol pet jobs dont get party invites abyssea invites or endgame invites but hey i cant get what I want when i want so lets screw them all over so i can get it NOW!! lol

[Daniel_Hatcher]

The best part, look at the tag for the update thread... Says it all really!

[Draylo]

You honestly don't know what the flying friggin frig you're talking about. I can count on one hand how many mobs in Abyssea can actually be soloed with minimal effort without riding reward timers and having an optimal reward build. The fact that you assume that a pet takes no damage the whole fight shows you have no conception of how DG guard actually works. Why don't you go back to bg and keep trying to convince them blu is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Leave bst business to the bsts.

I know what I saw, the pet was taking 0 dmg from everything. This is broken, end of story. SE already knows this and they are fixing it. Take your nerf and either find a way to make this job useful or play something people actually care for.

[Draylo]

i bet all these whining cry babies never invite a beast, smn , puppet to a party or help them get their seals

they cant charm in abyssea have no proc's so no one ever wants them they have 1 good thing finally after years of getting stiffed and one crying little baby screams and they are screwed again .... lol pet jobs dont get party invites abyssea invites or endgame invites but hey i cant get what I want when i want so lets screw them all over so i can get it NOW!! lol

Nope I never invite bst, never did in the past either. Learn how to play FFXI.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

You honestly don't know what the flying friggin frig you're talking about. I can count on one hand how many mobs in Abyssea can actually be soloed with minimal effort without riding reward timers and having an optimal reward build. The fact that you assume that a pet takes no damage the whole fight shows you have no conception of how DG guard actually works. Why don't you go back to bg and keep trying to convince them blu is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Leave bst business to the bsts.

You know him so well.

[ShadowHeart]

Nope I never invite bst, never did in the past either. Learn how to play FFXI.

pardon you don't know me dont bash me all 20 jobs were 70+ before abyssea i have every single weapon leveled over 300 every wsnm done including ranged 20/20 af 1 18/20 afv3 +1 or better and ur telling me learn how to play XD i been playing and doing it well for 7 years son so step off quit crying and learn to play with the people around you its a MULTY player game lol

[Mirage]

Soloing with a pet that takes 0 physical damage is more broken than a melee in a party with 80% haste. Pets will probably still be able to get 87.5% damage reduction. It's not the end of the fucking world.

[ShadowHeart]

the original thread that started was guy crying beast took to long to kill and he wanted it now
i never use 100 pdt setup takes fun out of it personally for me but not being able to use your full job ability also gimps your abilities in abyssea so having a small advantage so they can get their job done to compensate doesnt make me start flaming posts about it i play for fun adn adopt to game and surroundings not scream to do it my way or i quit and QQ

[Granny]

Are you kidding me? It makes no sense to touch something that lets you kill a NM while afk or take 0 dmg the entire fight? Do you see NOTHING wrong with this? People who do MNK + WHM have to actually do work still... Even gimp scrubs can't do most fights that people say "mnk + whm" it still takes some degree of knowledge. Tossing an invincible pet at a NM and going afk to make a sandwich does NOT take skill and is an obvious exploit.

How does it make no sense to you? I know because you obviously don't even know the concept being discussed in this thread!

First off you cant make bst pets invincable in abyssea, you can get -100% pdt but that is only for a hp range of about 35% AND your pet has a 25 tic DoT on it from winged gloom. a pet having -100% pdt for a few hp isnt close to how ducal was for avatars before nerf.

Tell me Draylo how can a bst go afk killing something with a so called invincable pet when it as 25 DoT on it. Lets not forget pet still receives enfeeblements and magic damage at a reduced amount.

Draylo do you even have bst leveled? seriously... lol

[Limecat]

Draylo is a troll from FFXIAH, just ignore him.

[Draylo]

How does it make no sense to you? I know because you obviously don't even know the concept being discussed in this thread!

First off you cant make bst pets invincable in abyssea, you can get -100% pdt but that is only for a hp range of about 35% AND your pet has a 25 tic DoT on it from winged gloom. a pet having -100% pdt for a few hp isnt close to how ducal was for avatars before nerf.

Tell me Draylo how can a bst go afk killing something with a so called invincable pet when it as 25 DoT on it. Lets not forget pet still receives enfeeblements and magic damage at a reduced amount.

Draylo do you even have bst leveled? seriously... lol

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about lol...

[Draylo]

Draylo is a troll from FFXIAH, just ignore him.

I'm a troll because my opinion differs from others? This was an obvious exploit because SE is fixing it. If there was nothing wrong with it WHY are they fixing it? Oh I know, because its cheap and BST's should stop failing and wasting others time.

[Gotterdammerung]

Have you ever thought about the fact that when i have to wait behind a group killing an NM that they waste just as much of my time as i waste theirs?

Your not actually commenting on the issue. You are trying to turn the issue into soloist vs groups. And thats not the issue. Soloists will always be around. Your not getting rid of us with just this misinformed update. The next time you get stuck behind me soloing, you should just be glad im not a rdm or dnc soloist.

[Draylo]

Misinformed update? You are really delusional... these are the DEVELOPERS of the freaking game that feel this is an obvious exploit, hence they are fixing it. Your opinion is invalid in the matter, its being fix regardless of what tantrum you throw in response.

[Gotterdammerung]

Oh quit it with the "SE is an infallable entity" routine. This is being added in the a post update update because A its easy to change and B they thought its wat people wanted because a small group of loud people QQed. It has nothing to do with right or wrong and everything to do with the customizable direction they are trying to take the game via this forums. We are all perfectly justified in voicing our dissidence.

[Karbuncle]

I heard someone mention not wanting their fate in the hands of their enemies... But it makes less sense to leave it in the hands of the people who stand to benefit from it the most.

This was an obvious exploit. It doesn't matter how long it takes too accomplish, the idea of a pet having a full Invincible status, including ~50%+ MDT as a side effect, is broken.

25hp/tic or not.

I personally hope they dont nerf it too hard, But acting like this is a perfectly acceptable option for BSTs is nothing short of delusional wishful thinking. Any BST who could not seriously see a nerf to this coming a mile away was kidding themselves.

I hate it as much as the next guy, but it was bound to happen, It was broken, it was unbelievable broken for FFXI. As i said in a previous post, far less things have been nerfed in the past, things far less "obvious" an exploit than this.

I just can't bring myself to believe, someone who has played this game for more than 3 years, Cannot see how this is an exploit and doesn't understand why its being fixed.

It boggles my mind... Especially considering all the past things fixed/nerfed that seemed far less broken.

Edit: Regardless if "SE's logic is infallible" this is an exploit, and they're fixing it. nothing you guys do here will ever change that. this is one of those fixes that is damned to remain fixed. Its sad, to every BST, But its a reality we have to accept. Rant about it, but don't sit here acting like theres no reason to nerf it

[Khaoticligh]

The following issues will be fixed:

Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.


... Yay for making pdt axes, hours of work camping Okupete for his chain, hours of getting leg seals, redoing my moogle hat... spending hours of building fame in grauberg... only to see we wont be able to get 100% pdt anymore...

Even though technically our pets could still die to things... and it wasn't overly abused.
Thanks.

Wasn't saying I disagree with the update, as someone pointed out, IF they do change it, I did see it coming a mile away. It's just disheartening. This wasn't meant to turn into people fighting each other about what's right and what's not, and if this thread continues in that direction, it's sure to be locked. I was upset yesterday, but quite frankly... we, as bsts, can still do basically any old content solo, and dynamis is kinda fun now too. Abyssea will not be as fun solo, but meh :/ it's not like we can't still kill any old Visions NM with a dipper and Cloak/dagger, same goes for a lot of the scars NMs too, and at 95, can only imagine that some heroes would be easier too~ Anyways, I just ask that we keep it lighthearted, express your distaste, but don't bash each other's point-of-views, we are all entitled to them, and should all hopefully be over 13...

[blowfin]

I just can't bring myself to believe, someone who has played this game for more than 3 years, Cannot see how this is an exploit and doesn't understand why its being fixed.

It's no more of an exploit than most of the game mechanics in Abyssea when you apply the right atmas.

They had the chance to patch this out when they fixed the problem with SMN pets, why wouldn't they have "fixed" BST pets at the same time?

About the only reason I could see 100% pdt as a bug, is if SE miscounted the amount of it that could be applied to pets. I doubt that though, you can reach 70% alone with 3 atmas.


Pet, Wyvern and Automaton may become invincible under certain circumstances.

Circumstances? Sounds more like a patch for the update to me.

And maybe I'm biased, but I guess we'll see.

[Karbuncle]

It's no more of an exploit than most of the game mechanics in Abyssea when you apply the right atmas.

They had the chance to patch this out when they fixed the problem with SMN pets, why wouldn't they have "fixed" BST pets at the same time?

About the only reason I could see 100% pdt as a bug, is if SE miscounted the amount of it that could be applied to pets. I doubt that though, you can reach 70% alone with 3 atmas.



Yes, Things in abyssea are broken. I agree.

But This was on a different level of broken. Its illogical to think or assume something that allows you to become completely immune to all physical attack, and nearly immune to magical, 99% of the time, would remain in-tact.

and the reason they "fixed" SMN first is because it could be done with i think only 1 atma (Ducal Guard) and it worked even with the pet above 50% HP.

While, at the time, BST required 3. Which was far more broken... I can't say why they did it then, no one can. I Can assume they're fixing it now because of the complaining, I'm not blind to that.

However, rather they do it now or next year, the point remains, they're doing it. They've deemed it either an exploit, or something that needs to be "fixed", and they're going to do it. We're allowed to be upset, but don't rob those who are happy for it of the same right to express their feelings for it by acting like they're the evil-horrible-enemies of BST-kind. (something you didn't do personally)

[Mirage]

Certain circumstances, such as when wearing gear and atmas that give you -100% PDT.

[Fadnog]

From what i can understand BSTs believe that -100%pdt important to the jobs ability to do much in terms of NMs in abyssea.

While the other side says that -100%pdt is broken because there shouldn't be any job that should be able to become "invincible".

While, yes, being able to reach -100%pdt is overpowering, it doesn't not mean that pets do not take any damage at all. Pets will still take some magic damage as well as DoTs still take full effect.The build in most cases will make use of an atma that gives a constant 25 hp/tick DoT. Pets are also full effected by enfeebles as well. While things like slow and paralyze don't effect pets much with this build, things like doom or petrify can still neutralize a pet. The pets also do not start out with -100%pdt meaning if the pet gets hit with a powerful attack before 50% it still takes about 80% damage from said attack. So pets aren't entirely "invincible" the are probably more accurately overly sturdy.

So that being said a BST can't necessarily AFK and kill a mob, as well as BSTs being still somewhat limited, unless they want to use a ton of money on pet food, if the mob either does a ton of magic damage or makes use of powerful DoTs. However that means with mobs that do the majority of its damage through physical means it makes the solo far easier.

BST doesn't believe that it should taken away because it would mean that would limit our ability to do NMs in abyssea because BSTs offers little to NM hunting groups in abyssea. However, -100%pdt is overpowered and allows a BST to be essentially a one man army.

I'm not making this post to argue or take either side just trying to make some facts clearer.

[Draylo]

If you really must play BST, I'm sure they can offer good DD and a few red procs. I've seen the pets do a lot of dmg, also the bug can do TH.

[blowfin]

However, rather they do it now or next year, the point remains, they're doing it. They've deemed it either an exploit, or something that needs to be "fixed", and they're going to do it. We're allowed to be upset, but don't rob those who are happy for it of the same right to express their feelings for it by acting like they're the evil-horrible-enemies of BST-kind. (something you didn't do personally)

Again, we don't know what they're doing until the patch. My point is that we don't even know what they've deemed to be broken, nor do we know how they intend to fix it. It's all extrapolation at this point.

To be perfectly blunt though, if the change does happen and it's been driven by the playerbase it's out of selfishness really. Selfish people demanding a right to NM's either way. Whether it's BST's soloing things that are going to take an hour or the people whining because they couldn't fight their NM when they wanted to.


Certain circumstances, such as when wearing gear and atmas that give you -100% PDT.

Certain circumstances that have existed for 5 months? And been patched once before for SMN pets. It just doesn't wash with me that they wouldn't have changed it 5 months ago with the SMN fix.

Also, Hedjedjet seems to be the mob that keeps getting raised in examples. People should hardly be surprised to find BST's there seeing as it drops +2 items for the AF3 body. Honestly, if you see someone soloing it (because it's still going to happen in the future probably) and it annoys you, ask if you can speed things up and offer them the cards. Everyone wins, the BST gets the upgrade items, you get your NM faster. Of course mutual benefit is often disregarded by people for one the reasons already mentioned in this post.

[Xilk]

Oh please, this is by no means the end of soloing for bst in abyssea. Not even close.

Its just frustrating because it was born out of such a nasty, mean-spirited, and hateful thread. If the player had an honest concern, its as simple as submitting a thread in the bug reporting area.

Is that what happened? not at all. It was a rage and a rant and flinging broad-brushed insults to a large portion of the playerbase. It was full of lies and misinformation.

That is what is offensive about it. Did bst expect it? back when they capped smn pdt, yes we did. After that we figured it was left alone for all the trade-offs it takes. FFXI is full of trade-offs. If SE had merely overlooked it and later "fixed" it, it would be mildly disappointing, but not frustrating or offensive.

it had very limited application where it made a pivotal difference anyway.

[Aldersyde]

Oh please, this is by no means the end of soloing for bst in abyssea. Not even close.

Its just frustrating because it was born out of such a nasty, mean-spirited, and hateful thread. If the player had an honest concern, its as simple as submitting a thread in the bug reporting area.

Is that what happened? not at all. It was a rage and a rant and flinging broad-brushed insults to a large portion of the playerbase. It was full of lies and misinformation.

That is what is offensive about it. Did bst expect it? back when they capped smn pdt, yes we did. After that we figured it was left alone for all the trade-offs it takes. FFXI is full of trade-offs. If SE had merely overlooked it and later "fixed" it, it would be mildly disappointing, but not frustrating or offensive.

it had very limited application where it made a pivotal difference anyway.

This post is full of truth but the bold parts are the most important in why bsts are so ticked off. Everyone who actually knew about ducal guard expected it to be fixed with smn's avatars. Is SE really that ignorant about the mechanics of its own game?

[Swords]

Many jobs that have major solo capabilities seem to have a following of haters who like to cry foul. If I recall correctly people have been waving the Nerf Flag on RDM for years due to it's solo capabilities, but if you look at what RDM has gotten in the past years we've gotten next to nil compared to other jobs, and now we've fallen behind exceptionally. BST has been in the same boat for years when it comes to updates, but now that they finally catch a break it's deemed "too powerful" though there are THF, DNC, MNK, BLU, BLM, RDMs and other jobs out there doing the same things and taking just as much time soloing/duoing things. Call me crazy, but it's a very hypocritical arguement.

And for a bit of clarification 90% of the people I ever see take on Hedjedjet are non BST's soloing/duoing him.

[Keinn]

I never used a full 100% -pdt build. Soloing in abyssea I use Ducal guard, Razed Ruins, and Mounted Champ. (Puts my pet at-87%PDT -67%MDT) I used to solo without Ducal, I could always do it again if they nerf it into nothingness.

That being said though, I really enjoyed not eating as many pet food. Here's hoping the 100% nerf doesn't end up capping things ridiculously low. If -DT gets capped at 50%, DucalGuard will make having any pet -dt gear obsolete in abyssea. Pet evasion builds will be more important than ever.


PS: SE, Please fix Cloudsplitter. It really is terrible.

[Glamdring]

Never understood how, In a game where they actually nerfed pets getting Samba Effects (a 'glitch' quickly fixed and far less broken, also Magic Mortar) that something like 100% immunity to Physical damage would remain untouched.

I have BST, SMN, DRG, and PUP, It was awesome, but it was seriously unrealistic if you guys thought that giving a pet "invincible" 100% of the time was not broken, with or without Atmas being involved. I hate its being fixed, But i saw it coming like a fiery meteor in the sky barreling towards earth.

That aside, your PDT axes aren't "Worthless", The cap could just be getting lowered to ~87.5% like Avatars, Which is still a hefty chunk considering Eta/Zeta Biscuits should cover the rest. It might limit your ability to solo somethings... I admit, but it was bound to happen. Far less "broken" things in this game have been nerfed, Its sad day, but it was bound to happen.


Lastly, Siviard, You need to grow up if you are seriously about to start stalking someone in a video game because of this. That's just absolutely ridiculous. Its a Video game, and its not that serious. that's open harassment and you will get suspended/banned for that if someone decided to report you. It does no good to get your account banned over something like this.

They way you make Ilax's life miserable WITHOUT getting banned is to /blist and boycott Ilax. Help with nothing, never raise, boot from your shell if Ilax is in there, remove or raise prices in your bazaar if Ilax is trying to buy, refuse to share camps (clearly within the ToS) and MOST OF ALL, use only +eva atma on an evasive jug and hold an NM you know Ilax wants, but for over an hour now and refuse to invite or relinquish to Ilax; feel free to ninja claim any NM Ilax is fighting that goes yellow as well-that is apparently within the rules. Also, watch Ilax for anything s/he does that is within the design and rules of the game (like your -pdt build) but that you could call "exploit" on, and start a thread on here demanding that it be removed.

[Gratinao]

If you going to take away -100% PDT for pets you need to take it away for any class that can get it and on the same note take away super high Evasion where some classes all most never get hit. PLD can get Magic and Physical damage taken to -100% its not hard atma Earth Wyrm, Ducal Guard and Zeuith = -70% damage taken 30% more is not hard to get. So if you do not want to put in the work you self to get there don't dump on the ones that are will to do it.

[Judge]

assuming SE gimps it down beyond the viable use of PDT to tank a mob.. it just means Dipper price is going to sky rocket. anything that can be evasion tanked will get dipper and evasion atmas/axes and same issue will occur with ppl waiting for a bst to finish his fight. doesnt change the QQ issue. just changes the tactics bst will have to use to handle their business.

[Metal]

So to silence all the whiners SE has (as usual) just completely nerfed BST by not allowing Atma's to transfer over to pets.... Check it yourself Atma's no longer transfer over to pets as of today

This is your fix? so since you have taken it upon yourself to satisfy the whinners and now have made the BST job completely useless in parties and now solo I would like to request my money back for all three Abyssea exp.

Why?

BST is a solo based job so all the work BST's in general have put into DG and PDT gear in general for use in Abyssea no longer have any effect.

A well thought out solution (to your oversight) would have been to reduce the effect within reason, make Pet WS's such as Spiral Spin, Sheep Charge and a few others to be a part of the necessary proc's, in essence making BST's an integral part (as other jobs) of Abyssea.

But as we have seen in the past (even under the new development team) is to simply take the quick easy fix for your own blunders. So how many pet based jobs complaining will it take to implement a proper fix...50 80 100 it appears from the threads I have read approx 30-40 whiners gets you off your butt.

Or should the collective pet based jobs simply ask for their money back as we bought the expansions under the assumption that PDT gear and the corresponding Atama's would allow us to continue to play the job as intended/designed...solo

BTW you do realize that the above constitutes "Bait and Switch" which in most countries is illegal so requesting our money back would be within our legal realms...get your lawyers to check that one out

~Metal~

[Khiinroye]

And people have just gone and tested and found that the previous post is not true.

[Glamdring]

And people have just gone and tested and found that the previous post is not true.

thank god! I'm going to go change my pants now...

[Aldersyde]

PS: SE, Please fix Cloudsplitter. It really is terrible.

God yes. You compare Cloudsplitter to some of the ws other jobs got and it's really just a hammerblow to bst's balls.

[Miera]

pardon you don't know me dont bash me all 20 jobs were 70+ before abyssea i have every single weapon leveled over 300 every wsnm done including ranged 20/20 af 1 18/20 afv3 +1 or better and ur telling me learn how to play XD i been playing and doing it well for 7 years son so step off quit crying and learn to play with the people around you its a MULTY player game lol
Learn to ignore Draylo. He fails so hard it's not even funny. Only thing he is good at is bitching and being a total jerk.

[Xilk]

They way you make Ilax's life miserable WITHOUT getting banned is to /blist and boycott Ilax. Help with nothing, never raise, boot from your shell if Ilax is in there, remove or raise prices in your bazaar if Ilax is trying to buy, refuse to share camps (clearly within the ToS) and MOST OF ALL, use only +eva atma on an evasive jug and hold an NM you know Ilax wants, but for over an hour now and refuse to invite or relinquish to Ilax; feel free to ninja claim any NM Ilax is fighting that goes yellow as well-that is apparently within the rules. Also, watch Ilax for anything s/he does that is within the design and rules of the game (like your -pdt build) but that you could call "exploit" on, and start a thread on here demanding that it be removed.

Please don't. Player harassment is not a solution, and only contributes more to the problem.

[Runespider]

assuming SE gimps it down beyond the viable use of PDT to tank a mob.. it just means Dipper price is going to sky rocket. anything that can be evasion tanked will get dipper and evasion atmas/axes and same issue will occur with ppl waiting for a bst to finish his fight. doesnt change the QQ issue. just changes the tactics bst will have to use to handle their business.

Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

[Glamdring]

Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

the real funny part is this "exploit" (which wasn't) being "fixed" is going to make Ilax's QQ worse. We beasts will still solo, and still win, but it will take us longer to get the kills is all, "holding" the NM even longer. Only wish I was on that server so I could Laugh at it when it screams... ToS clearly state that it's 1st come 1st serve on any mob including NMs.

[Judge]

Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.
ive been playing 8 years~ lol I've dealt with the CC monopoly. laughed at the HQ pets added that offered nothing but a lower budget on the next set of pets to buy. I've leveled preTOA with exp penalties.

my point was that anyone who knows how to PLAY beastmaster wont be slowed down by this patch. ppl will still find a reason to dislike BST sharing a zone with them. i myself wont be saddened by this. i will continue finding ways to deal with my NM's.. even if it means buying a more expensive pet.

[Xilk]

Evasion caps same as PDT will, once they fix this exploit though evasion tanking will be the next avenue yes. Be thankful to Square they gave you such an awesome pet to fall back on. Old school bsts had crappy selection of pets, you guys have it easy.

wow, you trying to play that card? You think there are no "old school" bst here?

[Runespider]

wow, you trying to play that card? You think there are no "old school" bst here?

There are some, but not many. Most are noobs that tacked onto bst cause of a broken mechanic and you know it.

Also for people with sour grapes over this and thinking to take it out on the playerbase at large, if you become a problem you will be treated as such. It's very very easy counter any kind of tactics you care to mention to grief.

[Xilk]

There are some, but not many. Most are noobs that tacked onto bst cause of a broken mechanic and you know it.

Also for people with sour grapes over this and thinking to take it out on the playerbase at large, if you become a problem you will be treated as such. It's very very easy counter any kind of tactics you care to mention to grief.

I don't know it. neither do you. You do a survey? Its your opinion based off who knows what assumptions.

I have noticed alot more bst after scars, but it was never clear to me if they were new bst, or old players breaking the job out again. i saw alot of old players break the job out around the time scars came out, or a bit before.

I assume you are responding to some other players about 'giving grief'
I would not condone such a thing and I certainly wouldn't waste my time harassing another player. I don't find that sort of thing amusing in the least. I wouldn't waste my time on it either.

I don't think anyone suggesting a nerf to other jobs is serious. It is merely a comparison to make a point. Plenty of the features in abyssea are very comparable to 100% pet damage reduction. Many have a much larger impact.

[Reauland]

Well I for one plan on takin whatever dings the nerf hammer has to offer with a smile.

All it tells me is that they know we're dangerous.

By the same token though, might we suggest that Nin/Dnc and Dnc/Nin are overpowered too? I defy anyone to tell me they solo an NM any faster than Bsts do, and that's entirely without one of our signature abilities(Charm). I'd like to see how effective other soloists would be were they in our shoes.

Maybe this'll be huge. Maybe it'll be nothing. Whatever happens, we'll find a way.

It's what we do.

[Pikel]

Soloing with a pet that takes 0 physical damage is more broken than a melee in a party with 80% haste. Pets will probably still be able to get 87.5% damage reduction. It's not the end of the fucking world.

I like this. It's the general consensus of people that feel we were broken and don't understand beast at all.

I solo'd bst to 75 before Abyssea because I enjoyed relaxing without drama and not relying on other's for things. I'm sure this patch won't effect us as much as some may think. The reason behind their crying was we could solo nm's taking 0 damage and hold nm's forever. Guess what? We've been solo'in for years. We can hold mobs forever one way or another. It might require some merit changes. Might require eta food instead of zeta. Might require more pet swaps. Either way we will still have a fairly high amount of defensive gear / atmas for our pets even if they drop the pdt cap. All this does is make our solo'in just a tad longer.

Congratulations you got your patch. I'm still gonna solo. Now you gotta wait longer. :P

[Runespider]

Congratulations you got your patch. I'm still gonna solo. Now you gotta wait longer. :P

For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed. Bst is an awesome job but noobs using it in this way was really sadening, good bsts will still get their kills, just with a little more ability and knowledge than abusing a broken mechanic.

[Pikel]

For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed.

My impression was waiting was most definitely the issue. Bst holding mobs for 40+ min trying to proc or having friends zomby nm's for wins. If your issue is a noobs ability to get away with success using atmas why single out bst? Abyssea has bread nothing but noobs from day one. I personally am saddened by the lack of skill almost any player has on at least one of their jobs. I did nm farming with a nin that was wearing AFv1 weilding AH katana's and only using utsumi. No spells to sneak around, no spells for yellow procs, no weapons for red procs, no skill to actually evade anything. Yet threw atmas (mostly auto reraise) he was successful at getting what he wanted.

So again if people were complaining because of lack of skills why single out bst?

[Aldersyde]

Pets will probably still be able to get 87.5% damage reduction. It's not the end of the fucking world.

If you don't mind indulging me, what's your reasoning for assuming that 87.5 will be the new cap? Because that's what they settled for smn's avatars? That's pretty faulty reasoning considering that avatars have native pdt- and most pets don't.

For the most part, SE does two types of adjustment to jobs: those that are completely ineffectual and those that totally annihilate former styles of play. I'm leaning towards total annihilation of pet pdt- cap.SE's treatment of the job hasn't prepared me for any better scenario.

[Khiinroye]

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

[Glamdring]

precisely, the issue was the holds, the "exploit" complaint was simply a way to disguise the hold complaint. Same thing happens with any other job that tries to solo, but they don't get complained at because the complainer relies on the same mechanism they would have to complain about to be able to solo it themselves. The next complaint won't be to get rid of evasion or regen atmas, it will simply be to get rid of Atma on pets altogether because the pets can hit harder than players. It has the added convenience that it doesn't even have to be true... and it allows my dnc to take the NM that your bst/pup/smn/drg no longer can!

It is for precisely this reason that I solo in Aby now with my bst or my pup even tho' my dnc or thf can do it just as well but without the expense of the jug/food/oil, to annoy the QQ. If it sounds like I don't care about their concerns... good, since that is precisely the message I'm trying to get across. I really need to work out a method to solo this crap on my bard, that'll prolly take 2-3 hours a kill...

[Aldersyde]

For most, waiting was never the issue, just playing your job with a little more skill than an almost invincible pet allowed. Bst is an awesome job but noobs using it in this way was really sadening, good bsts will still get their kills, just with a little more ability and knowledge than abusing a broken mechanic.

Really? You might want to go read Ilax's original post in the locked thread again. Waiting an hour for "his" nm seemed to be the primary motivation behind the post in the first place. General whining about 'noob' groups taking too long to kill nms on other ff forums is pretty consistent.

[Aldersyde]

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

On jugpets? You're going to have to provide a link to prove that.

[Khiinroye]

Here you go (clicky) (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21645/the-days-of-pet-pdt-build-se-officially-goodbye/9/#1318966)

[Gotterdammerung]

Because its been tested to be about that already.

All it took away was the ability for gimp bsts to throw a pet at some mob and afk for an hour, like nearly everyone expected and wanted.

Good bsts are mostly unaffected.

You can still "afk kill" with ducal MC and stronghold. U keep acting like this is sumthing we did. Nobody AFK kills. Even if we can, we dont.

[Khiinroye]

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

[Glamdring]

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

actually, I prefer bad players to just die and delvl.... unfortunately XP is too easy for that to be an option.

[Aldersyde]

Here you go (clicky) (http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21645/the-days-of-pet-pdt-build-se-officially-goodbye/9/#1318966)

Cool, tyvm. Was there an update overnight? Or is there possibly another fix coming?

[Khiinroye]

The update was about an hour ago. It's about 200 files to download when you log in next time. No more changes have been mentioned yet.

[Agetos]

Wait so have they fixed it with the update today? Has it been confirmed because i haven't seen anybody post about it yet.

[Pikel]

Cool this means I can switch out an axe probably for MDT axe and still average same damage taken as I never was a 100% pdt.

[blowfin]

Has anybody tried out Ironclad's after the patch with Fatso? Wondering if his -PDT bonus for blunt is taken into account when calculating PDT cap.

[Gotterdammerung]

next up, phalanx stoneskin pdt nerf. Cuz getting hit for 0 is apparently a gross violation of all things holy.

[Pikel]

I already thought about the Giants but havn't tried it yet. I am only assuming they wouldn't be immune anymore because SE took into consideration avatars natural -pdt as well when gimping them. This would mean we are not more flexable on what atma's / gear we can equip which makes me happy. :)

Also side note because less is required to cap pdt noobs will have it easier with this update. lol

[Glamdring]

I just want to know that there is an army of bst with eva and regen atmas currently monopolizing the Scorp on Ilax's server, solo.

[blowfin]

I already thought about the Giants but havn't tried it yet. I am only assuming they wouldn't be immune anymore because SE took into consideration avatars natural -pdt as well when gimping them.

Well, it seems like the extra 7.5% we're seeing from Stout Servant isn't considered in the new cap unless I'm mistaken?

[Xilk]

Obviously some people did, though. Just because good bsts don't, doesn't mean that gimp bsts didn't.

Edit: All this update did was force the bottom tier of bsts to step up their game and learn the job better. I think everyone can agree this is a good thing.

Obviously someone did? If you want to make statements like that, back it up!

"It happened because I said so!" Sorry, but do you have a vid of someone sitting there w/out moving? Do you have screenshots w/ timestamps?
The only way you could be sure if someone did this is:
A. You sat and watched them not move.
B. You Did it yourself

you are running in logical circles
"They are nerfing it cuz bsts afk kill NMs!"
"Obviously someone afk killed, because they are nerfing it!"

[Gotterdammerung]

Obviously someone did? If you want to make statements like that, back it up!

"It happened because I said so!" Sorry, but do you have a vid of someone sitting there w/out moving? Do you have screenshots w/ timestamps?
The only way you could be sure if someone did this is:
A. You sat and watched them not move.
B. You Did it yourself

you are running in logical circles
"They are nerfing it cuz bsts afk kill NMs!"
"Obviously someone afk killed, because they are nerfing it!"

The logic stick is a dangerous weapon in the hands of a Xilk.

[Swords]

The main issue really does come down to taking long periods of time to solo things. I'm not saying it to be pro-BST, but I do know from years of scrutiny I've seen the RDM community receive for the same reasons. Despite the overwhelming ability RDM has to solo and how many people leveled back when it was a bandwagon job, only 2-3% of the playerbase actually had the skill to solo something halfway decent, hell most couldn't solo their way out of a paperbag if you gave them half a chance. However, despite how few could actually solo worth a salt many have literally scream out Nerf against RDM for years, just for being able to "solo" that took longer than 15 minutes to kill. I know BST's have been in the same boat, and I also know as long as SE knows/thinks they can still do their job they'll give them as little as possible to do it.

But I can't help but think if these people were pushed into a position where they couldn't abuse game mechanics like with Kirin Zergs or "Zombie" (Apoc Atma) tactics, if they could really do anything halfway challenging with a moderate level of success.

[Xilk]

The logic stick is a dangerous weapon in the hands of a Xilk.

Actually, I'll tone this down abit, even though the logic of the statement I was responding to was ridiculous.

I think there is a valid point hidden underneath.

The POTENTIAL for a player to do this in some rare and very limited ways DID exist.

I took the opportunity to quickly use my 100% pdt pet to gather the atma's from Emperador de altepa and Cuijatender right before the maint today.
Cuijatender still took about 30 min to kill. w/ 7 people and my pet tanking. I went back solo just to check some measurements. There is no way a master can be w/in range to fight this NM. shucks if you have 18 members in an alliance to mitigate 64k damage spread evenly you are still getting 3.5k damage.
So the only way a BST could take this NM on is by sending pets w/ 100% -pdt (even w/ 87.5% reduction pet will take 8k damage).. by my calculations it would take a bst over 3 hours to kill Cuijatender in the that way...

Which if anyone was stupid enough to attempt, COULD impact other players in a significant degree. The POTENTIAL for abuse was there, and that MIGHT be a justification for SE. However, I'm the first to suggest it, it seems. Which continues to imply to me that the vocal detractors really haven't touched the real reasons they find 100% -pdt so offensive.

I see the arguments as thus:

detractor: 100% -pdt is broken
supporter: its not broken, it is comparable to the rest of abyssea (crit damage+, haste, infinite whm mp, etc.)
detractor: Nope, its just broken (brawndo's got what the body needs!!)

I can think of plenty of things a detractor might say to follow the argument up. A real discussion, a real COMPARISON of abilities. However, I just hear the same thing repeated, along w/ "shut up about it". Ageed, there ARE "whiners" on the bst side of things as well. However, there are also several serious posters who have been addressing the isue w/ points that have valid points that have been blatantly avoided. This really discredits the detractors.

i hear the detractors trying to silence, I hear supporters trying to engage in conversation. If you don't want to hear it, you don't have to listen. I got tired of the argument and stayed away for a few days. These things all point to an ulterior motivation for many detractors.

ps.
I"m not even sure if BST could defeat cuijatender this way, as the regen from photosynthesis might outdo the rate of damage the pet can do. It would work for Emperador de Altepa, but that would take about 1 hour, and I've never had the patience for that, because you won't get anything from the fight at all...

[Ezikiel]

so was it nerfed or not hadnt seen any info if it was.

[Xilk]

so was it nerfed or not hadnt seen any info if it was.

yes, looks like they capped us at 87.5% like smn avatar's.

[Khiinroye]

I had a long post, but if I posted it, the arguing might go on and on, and Xilk's post catches what I meant for the potential of abuse, though I disagree in that the detractors brought up some valid points besides "its broken".

I'll admit that I misspoke. What I should have said was "I believe that some people fought NMs without aiding their pet for a large portion of the fight, because people complained about bsts doing just that."

However, I will say that Gottendammerung also misspoke with "Nobody afk kills" when he should have said that he believes that nobody did, as he cannot prove his original statement either.

I think we should just leave it at this:
For whatever reasons convinced SE, the cap on all pet -damage taken, for all jobs, is now, or SE thinks is now, 87.5%. Most bsts can probably live with that.

[Xilk]

I had a long post, but if I posted it, the arguing might go on and on, and Xilk's post catches what I meant for the potential of abuse, though I disagree in that the detractors brought up some valid points besides "its broken".

I'll admit that I misspoke. What I should have said was "I believe that some people fought NMs without aiding their pet for a large portion of the fight, because people complained about bsts doing just that."

However, I will say that Gottendammerung also misspoke with "Nobody afk kills" when he should have said that he believes that nobody did, as he cannot prove his original statement either.

I think we should just leave it at this:
For whatever reasons convinced SE, the cap on all pet -damage taken, for all jobs, is now, or SE thinks is now, 87.5%. Most bsts can probably live with that.

Thank you for the white flag :P
I accept your graciousness.

[Ezikiel]

87.5% i can live with i didnt wanna bother with getting ducal guard if it was uber nerfed i dual box and 1 char is 90 bst other char is 85 bst and 90 smn so they will make a deadly team if both pets are at 87.5% -PDT with the boost in pet food heals and regen atmas BSTS can still solo alot of things

[blowfin]

Yeah, this hasn't changed much at all really. In particular I'm working through some Iron Giants for +2 items and the only change I've made is using Mounted Champion over Stronghold or Visc. It's quite liberating to be able to drop my -PDT gear completely for these fights and melee with a full haste/TP build.

Oh, and Fatso's blunt resistance is included in the cap by the way.

Ironclad Exec. at least doesn't really look like it needs yellow to be dropping +2 items too. They seem random and yellow just looks like it makes synthesis mats (junk) drop.

[Xilk]

Yeah, this hasn't changed much at all really. In particular I'm working through some Iron Giants for +2 items and the only change I've made is using Mounted Champion over Stronghold or Visc. It's quite liberating to be able to drop my -PDT gear completely for these fights and melee with a full haste/TP build.

Oh, and Fatso's blunt resistance is included in the cap by the way.

Ironclad Exec. at least doesn't really look like it needs yellow to be dropping +2 items too. They seem random and yellow just looks like it makes synthesis mats (junk) drop.

I've noticed this w/ fistule. It seems th is all you need for the +2's on the Nm's that newly drop them.

[blowfin]

I've noticed this w/ fistule. It seems th is all you need for the +2's on the Nm's that newly drop them.

Not even that, double drop the other night without TH of any kind.