Is Black Mage recieving gimped gear/spells when compared to sch and pup

[Concerned4FFxi]

im concerned about why my blm af3+2 body has no int and the sch body seems to be a better nuking peice, with the right gear a sch or pup can go toe to toe with us and they are only one spell behind? Is that fair? I feel blm should have a seperate level tier of nuking sperlls, and im not just speaking of am3 which will probly cost an insane amount of mp.

[Meyi]

Magic Attack Bonus + 11 is beautiful. Magic Accuracy +11 is also beautiful.

[Bigboy]

im concerned about why my blm af3+2 body has no int and the sch body seems to be a better nuking peice, with the right gear a sch or pup can go toe to toe with us and they are only one spell behind? Is that fair? I feel blm should have a seperate level tier of nuking sperlls, and im not just speaking of am3 which will probly cost an insane amount of mp.

You might want to look at the gear you are comparing your BLM body to. I think you will find your complaints unfounded. With the equivalent level of gear, you should always be blowing away a SCH or PUP. There is no toe-to-toe aspect even worth mentioning.

There is something to be said for maintaining a certain amount of flexibility as a SCH in the process, but as far as sheer firepower goes, it's not even a contest.

[Kingofgeeks]

you're really complaining about INT? at a certain point INT losses its usefulness. Also keep in mind we are still level 90, not 99. We'll see where things go when we all hit that point

[Daniel_Hatcher]

you're really complaining about INT? at a certain point INT losses its usefulness. Also keep in mind we are still level 90, not 99. We'll see where things go when we all hit that point

With the MAB Atma and Gear I'm pretty sure INT is actually better than more MAB at the moment.

[Raksha]

EDIT: NVM

1234567890

[Kingofgeeks]

With the MAB Atma and Gear I'm pretty sure INT is actually better than more MAB at the moment.

If you can get your MAB total to 50% then yes, being able to get more INT would be helpful.

(assuming MAB caps at 50% like most other things in this game)

[Sargent]

In terms of SCH gear, it's quite the opposite. SCH has been known to get shafted on lots of mage gear, in particular, nuking gear (Note: Zenith, Eradicos). SCH also lacks a native MAB trait that BLM gets, the highest they can get is MAB2. Saying that, Ebuillience closes the gap, and no longer has as much of the recast issue as it did with 4 charges. Yes, it's kinda harsh SCH getting a better nuking +2 body then BLM, but to be fair, they get little love from nuke gear elsewhere.

As for PUP, idk anything about the job, but it does annoy me that PUP can outnuke a decently geared/meritted BLM.

[Yukichibi]

PUP can make a big nuke every minute because you have to wait for your deactivate timer for hate management, or every 40 seconds if not (water manoeuver + 3 ice manoeuver+ 10 sec casting time).
Nuking as a PUP is like making a BP as a SMN.
So maybe when PUP launch his spell, it ll make more damage than a BLM, but you could launch more spells during this time.

For SCH, BLM rip their ass with elemental celerity, which is almost a permanent alacrity.
Even if SCH would have access to the same nuking power as BLM (which is not the case), you cast quicker, and you can erase your enmity.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

PUP can make a big nuke every minute because you have to wait for your deactivate timer for hate management, or every 40 seconds if not (water manoeuver + 3 ice manoeuver+ 10 sec casting time).
Nuking as a PUP is like making a BP as a SMN.
So maybe when PUP launch his spell, it ll make more damage than a BLM, but you could launch more spells during this time.

For SCH, BLM rip their ass with elemental celerity, which is almost a permanent alacrity.
Even if SCH would have access to the same nuking power as BLM (which is not the case), you cast quicker, and you can erase your enmity.

Single target SCH does have access to the same nukes, just not AOE.

By the way Elemental Celerity is 25% casting time, 5% more than SCH with it's "Grimoire: Reduces Spellcasting time" equipment which is recast as well.. Though BLM rock with that Enmity Douse

[Momotarotaru]

only Body +2 SCH that's better than BLM in term of nuking.
BLM got the whole Empyrean set for nuking when SCH got 3-4 pieces Empyrean for nuking.

If you concern nuking between sch and blm .. I think SE pretty good to keep gap between 2 jobs at the moment.


Fast cast is super advantage for BLM now. not even count on Enmity Douse and Mana Wall.
(Mana wall >> Aspir >> Aspir II >> Convert and use blm earring DT 30%) that's a little tanky there.

Single nuke BLM still win and the whole fight BLM still win for being able to nuke more before getting hate.

I play both jobs and I kinda disappointed by SCH Empyrean set.

Note : If you compare piece by piece RDM Empyrean come best in term of nuking on Head and legs part.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

I don't disagree with BLM as the nuker over SCH, but you must remember they had to be careful with SCH and it's nukes, +2 hat and Ebullience gives a straight 30% increase, that's the finished product of the ToM staff, so imagine the power with both. Too much nuking power would ruin the balance again like it used to be.

[Babekeke]

Inside abyssea: @90, BLM gets Bliz 5, SCH does not. BLM gets freeze 2, SCH does not. Atma of the Beyond.

@99 (so SE say): BLM gets Meteor, SCH does not.

@95: It could be close^^ we will have to see.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

Inside abyssea: @90, BLM gets Bliz 5, SCH does not. BLM gets freeze 2, SCH does not. Atma of the Beyond.

@99 (so SE say): BLM gets Meteor, SCH does not.

@95: It could be close^^ we will have to see.

Freeze II along with the whole tier II and I line of AM is a joke, their only use now is to trigger weakness, Blizzard V costs less than Freeze II and deals a lot more damage than it, it's only use in magic burst is mostly non-existent now DD's no longer care to SkillChain.

Blizzard V is coming to SCH along with most likely Thunder V in the next level cap increase, so the margin is even smaller, Meteor as far as we know and the 'JA line is the only thing separating them magically, the 'JA like while no doubt good just like 'GA is a dangerous, and limiting spell line, with Meteor likely going to be AoE the same will apply to that spell.

The eAF for BLM however knocks the magical damage difference HUGELY and rightly so favouring BLM. Talking as we head to 99, the Dev's have already said that they have no plans to do any other areas for Abyssea so we'll be heading back outside where ATMA and such is no longer around. If SE are not careful SCH could once more be equal with BLM which should not happen. Without a doubt SCH will once more reign supreme over being able to cast more spells than BLM in their MP pool, Refresh gear for BLM or not.

PS. Magic Attack Bonus caps, so it comes to a point where more will add little to no damage onto spells, and there is plenty of ATMA for other elements like Beyond with "(element)Damage+ Major."

[Raksha]

BLM gets 2 mp/tic refresh on af3 body while SCH only gets 1 >_<. Rest of SCH af3 is pretty meh for nuking. Feet are nice but that's about it.

I pretty much use atma of the gales when i'm nuking on SCH.

Is there evidence that MAB caps at '50%' (what does this even mean?). I thought I saw some tests that brew gives like +900 MAB or something crazy.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

BLM gets 2 mp/tic refresh on af3 body while SCH only gets 1 >_<. Rest of SCH af3 is pretty meh for nuking. Feet are nice but that's about it.

I pretty much use atma of the gales when i'm nuking on SCH.

Is there evidence that MAB caps at '50%' (what does this even mean?). I thought I saw some tests that brew gives like +900 MAB or something crazy.

Sublimation SCH main is over-powered, it's why SE only gave 1MP/tic on the body, I believe with all the gear you get ~300 MP back in around 2 minutes, 2MP is only 80MP in the same time. (I'll be honest not been on SCH much recently, mostly WHM so I can't say that's 100% right)

It caps to a point INT is better to use than MAB apparently. (Or so I've read)

Brew gives you 90%-DT I believe, so it breaks the natural cap, it can be assumed Brew does the same for MAB.

Feet, Hat and Body is good for nuking, so only 2 parts are "meh"

[Raksha]

Sublimation SCH main is over-powered, it's why SE only gave 1MP/tic on the body, I believe with all the gear you get ~300 MP back in around 2 minutes, 2MP is only 80MP in the same time. (I'll be honest not been on SCH much recently, mostly WHM so I can't say that's 100% right)

It caps to a point INT is better to use than MAB apparently. (Or so I've read)

Brew gives you 90%-DT I believe, so it breaks the natural cap, it can be assumed Brew does the same for MAB.

Feet, Hat and Body is good for nuking, so only 2 parts are "meh"

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage

In general, when 2 things are multiplied together increasing the lower one will be better than increasing the higher one. (I started to add a bunch of complicated math here but decided against it) 1 MAB will generally always be a better bet than 1 INT.


Was it confirmed that brew = -90% DT? I'd like to see those tests. I just assumed mob did crap damage because you have 999 vit and (presumably) an extra ~400 defense to go along with it.

RDM gets +2/tic refresh on their af3 body while having acces to refresh2, which is similar to sublimation.

[Daniel_Hatcher]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage

In general, when 2 things are multiplied together increasing the lower one will be better than increasing the higher one. (I started to add a bunch of complicated math here but decided against it) 1 MAB will generally always be a better bet than 1 INT.


Was it confirmed that brew = -90% DT? I'd like to see those tests. I just assumed mob did crap damage because you have 999 vit and (presumably) an extra ~400 defense to go along with it.

RDM gets +2/tic refresh on their af3 body while having acces to refresh2, which is similar to sublimation.

I don't know if tests were done to be honest, I just read it on Wiki at: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Transcendency - While I know Wiki can of course be wrong, I've seen it mentioned on other sites as well so I'd assume some sort of test was done, I just couldn't find it for you. Sorry!

I believe RDM beats SCH's Sublimation. +2 Trousers gives 7MP when you use Refresh II, +2 refresh for the body makes it 9mp/tic, and of course Composure being the best increase.

[Babekeke]

Freeze II along with the whole tier II and I line of AM is a joke, their only use now is to trigger weakness, Blizzard V costs less than Freeze II and deals a lot more damage than it, it's only use in magic burst is mostly non-existent now DD's no longer care to SkillChain.

#1 you can't trigger weakness with AM2. A good job really, since most people don't merit them all.

#2 good for you for only nuking with Bliz 5, then sitting around with your thumb up your @rse until timer is up. Personally, I'll Bliz 5 > Freeze 2 > Bliz 5 > Aspirs/Drain as required. More so when killing stuff for azure. Bliz 5 can kill a mob from ~90%, freeze 2 can kill it from ~80%, and generally the melee(s) have it below 80% by the time either spell hits so it's only the mp issue between them, which is only an issue when not /rdm (ie /brd for procs).


Talking as we head to 99, the Dev's have already said that they have no plans to do any other areas for Abyssea so we'll be heading back outside where ATMA and such is no longer around.

Yeah, give us another 9 levels and we'll be too high for abyssea zones! Just like when we went from 80 to 90 we're now too high for Abby Tahrongi/Konschat/La Theine.

Thanks for responding to posts when you don't know what you're talking about, Daniel^^

[Alkimi]

Is there evidence that MAB caps at '50%' (what does this even mean?). I thought I saw some tests that brew gives like +900 MAB or something crazy.

It seems to 'cap' at +899 MAB which you'll never get anywhere near unless you use a brew. Dunno who's suggesting it's 50%(50 MAB?) but that would just be stupid seeing as BLM already gets 36 just from job traits.

1 MAB will always increase your damage more than 1 INT will no matter how much MAB you already have. If anything adding INT is worse in Abyssea since dINT will be already capped on everything you fight.

[Raksha]

It seems to 'cap' at +899 MAB which you'll never get anywhere near unless you use a brew. Dunno who's suggesting it's 50%(50 MAB?) but that would just be stupid seeing as BLM already gets 36 just from job traits.

1 MAB will always increase your damage more than 1 INT will no matter how much MAB you already have. If anything adding INT is worse in Abyssea since dINT will be already capped on everything you fight.


Which spell and which enemy are you capping dINT on? Last I heard it was near impossible to cap dINT on most spells (fuzzy on the specifics, but i think it was t3 and up).

Do you have a link to some list of spells and their dINT caps?

[Miiyo]

I've not seen a sch come close to doing constant 5k nukes. Dunno what this guy is talking about.

[Raksha]

I've not seen a sch come close to doing constant 5k nukes. Dunno what this guy is talking about.

I can do 5k Aero5's on puddings in abyssea konschtat. Otherwise it's usually in the lower 4k range.

EDIT: Unless he means chaining Ascetic's drinks back to back.

[Kuwabaraone]

Also, SCH is more of a balancing act, as opposed to BLM which is a heavy DD Mage. As a fellow BLM, I'm fine with SCH getting a little boost now and then (despite my grudges on chat :) ) as when it comes down to firepower we stand above the rest. Also, thanks to /RDM access to vert and ManaWall, we can also continue nuking quickly. Verting also helps in proccing the latent effect of Sorc. Ring. Add Atma of the Minikin Monstrosity, Atma of the Merciless Matriarch, and a third atma of your choice and you become a force to be feared in the Abyss.

KB1

[Mojo]

I haven't seen any kind of evidence that indicates a cap on Magic Attack Bonus. Primeval Brew adds +900 Magic Attack Bonus and I believe you can still get more damage from stacking on more MAB. Either way, some kind of MAB cap is not even a legitimate concern as brew shows that it can go up to at least +900 (and probably more, but I don't have any data to verify it, just memory.) In terms of INT vs MAB, it depends on the buffs you have, gear you're using, spell you're casting and the mob you're casting it on. Currently 1 MAB will always produce better results than 1 INT, although depending on the situation gear choices like 5 MAB vs 7 INT are not so clear. I found the best way to decide on gear was to use a spreadsheet and look at all spells. I still have the one I wrote. You could enter the buffs you had and the gear you had. You could also enter some +INT and +MAB values. Filling in those would tell you the maximum INT value the mob could have before the +MAB became better than the +INT for each spell. Maybe I'll go label everything nicely and then upload it somewhere.

[Raksha]

I haven't seen any kind of evidence that indicates a cap on Magic Attack Bonus. Primeval Brew adds +900 Magic Attack Bonus and I believe you can still get more damage from stacking on more MAB. Either way, some kind of MAB cap is not even a legitimate concern as brew shows that it can go up to at least +900 (and probably more, but I don't have any data to verify it, just memory.) In terms of INT vs MAB, it depends on the buffs you have, gear you're using, spell you're casting and the mob you're casting it on. Currently 1 MAB will always produce better results than 1 INT, although depending on the situation gear choices like 5 MAB vs 7 INT are not so clear. I found the best way to decide on gear was to use a spreadsheet and look at all spells. I still have the one I wrote. You could enter the buffs you had and the gear you had. You could also enter some +INT and +MAB values. Filling in those would tell you the maximum INT value the mob could have before the +MAB became better than the +INT for each spell. Maybe I'll go label everything nicely and then upload it somewhere.

Plz do!

I have a rudimentary spreadsheet i used back at lvl75 maybe i'll update mine too.

[Zerich]

I don't disagree with BLM as the nuker over SCH, but you must remember they had to be careful with SCH and it's nukes, +2 hat and Ebullience gives a straight 30% increase, that's the finished product of the ToM staff, so imagine the power with both. Too much nuking power would ruin the balance again like it used to be.

and what about a BLM who isn't gimp...even more nuking power than this SCH

[Ordoric]

ok i must have aceptional Crit rate with magic. i know very few Blms that do overly huge nukes usualy ones with white/blue box syndrome. But i am decnetly Geared but nothing i feel is unobtanable and i do 5k nukes in aby my sch Might hit that with ebulence but the ods are it will do 4 k yes i play both jobs. so i cant complain one ot the other i think they should have acess to more mab gear but they have the balance of both worlds they need to learn to augment how they nuke but they can also heal nuke and buff where BLm just nuke so GET OVER IT reevaluate how you play blm if your getting outnukes there has got to be a reson in your method of play not the job

[ZeroUnlimited]

I've not seen a sch come close to doing constant 5k nukes. Dunno what this guy is talking about.

First let me say that I consider myself a career offensive mage, and have BLM, SCH, and RDM decently geared.

I average 5.5k nukes on my sch with the occasional spike to 6k during klimaform. With tonic about 6.2k and with both 7k. With both on the same day 7.5k.

For comparison outside abyssea on a gobbie outside jeuno my blm bliz V does 2.9k while my sch klimaform aero V does about 3.4k. If I nuke on iceday (or have a sch hailstorm me) my blm does 3.5k.

From my experience sch only outnukes blm with klimaform and self weather. At 99 BLM will be able to hailstorm themselves in which case blm should win 100% of the time if they use sch as their support job.

Don't QQ BLMs your still the best at what you do, klimaform only lasts a minute and has a long recast timer. BLM should always out parse the sch in the long run (assuming no MP issues) SCH can just occasionally spike higher if geared properly.


Now if you want to talk about Flan damage in abyssea konschat on, windsday with self weather, and klimatonic I solo magic burst an Aero V for 11939 damage on SCH. Inb4 "pics or it didn't happen." I wish I knew how to take pics on xbox so I could post a screenie.

[Babekeke]

Inb4 "pics or it didn't happen." I wish I knew how to take pics on xbox so I could post a screenie.

I believe that holding a camera up to the TV and taking a photo then uploading it to your PC/Laptop works^^