Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[Emitremmus]

I think this is a modest request. 30 is much too low to do anything in Abyssea. We know it specifically for key-whoring until you get into the upper levels in which case you are forced to skill-up and obtain spells that you missed out on with your exp binge.

I'm not calling anyone out who does this, but you got to admit it is kinda lame to be able to do this.

[Cream_Soda]

I did a lot of my runaround quests on a lv 30 job

[RaenRyong]

So instead of Abyssea burning, we will be stuck in East Ronfaure [S] and Qufim? Or Astral Burning?

People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. Trying to change it is just imposing your nostalgia on others. If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.

[rog]

I'm not calling anyone out who does this, but you got to admit it is kinda lame to be able to do this. That's a weird way to spell "awesome".

[Greatguardian]

There are two other threads on the front page basically devoted to this. Both created by the same (other) person. Why does this need a third thread?

(Hint: It doesn't)

[Kuishen]

Oh look another thread with the exact same thing in it...

Raen and Rog are entirely correct. This whole "RETURN TO THE OLD WAYS" attitude needs to go away, the old ways sucked, stop asking for them back.

[rog]

There are two other threads on the front page basically devoted to this. Both created by the same (other) person. Why does this need a third thread?

(Hint: It doesn't)
There's a prize for whoever ends day 1 with the most redundant threads.

[Mojo]

No thanks. Complain less about stupid things.

[Krystal]

There's a prize for whoever ends day 1 with the most redundant threads.

I WIN!XD where's my prize?XDD

[rog]

I WIN!XD where's my prize?XDDI don't think you can win before the contest ends.

[Krystal]

I don't think you can win before the contest ends.

aww dang....lol but i suppose my big prize will be seeing the level cap increase on abby areas.

[Icestein]

If Abyssea leeching didn't exist then many people would not level jobs. People aren't too keen on the monotony involved with grinding a job up to 70+. Doing so teaches them very little about the job, skills are still gimped from level syncing (which would be necessary what with the dwindling player base) and we'd still end up with players that have the same quantity of gear and skill as with the current system.

Abyssea is just making more people more versatile. To be good at a job you have to level the skills, and there are measures in place to incentive's people to do so (Blue and Red Proccing.)

[Starcade]

Oh look another thread with the exact same thing in it...

Raen and Rog are entirely correct. This whole "RETURN TO THE OLD WAYS" attitude needs to go away, the old ways sucked, stop asking for them back.

Why don't you just say that we who wish some degree of return to the old ways (read: some accountability on the part of both the players and Square-Enix) go away too...

[rog]

Why don't you just say that we who wish some degree of return to the old ways (read: some accountability on the part of both the players and Square-Enix) go away too...
You can stay, just get rid of those attitudes first. Walking backwards is the last thing you want to do when trying to get somewhere.

[Vinc]

Raen, Rog pretty much hit the nail on the head. Old ways sucked, in with the new please.

[Kimiko]

Why don't you just say that we who wish some degree of return to the old ways (read: some accountability on the part of both the players and Square-Enix) go away too...

Agreed and amen to that!

[Aliekber]

The thing you're failing to take into account is that most people are leveling new jobs because it's so painless compared to the old way. If there were no leeching, I wouldn't have PLD BLM or NIN, and you know what? I wouldn't be leveling them the old way, I'd be playing on RDM BLU SCH wishing I had a bloodtank, a top-class nuker, and an evasion tank. Or I'd have quit.

What I wouldn't be doing is joining your Kuftal Crabs party.

Plus, if they nerf leeching now, they'd basically be rewarding whoever exploited it the most/earliest, and screwing those who didn't. You don't want that, do you?

[Kimiko]

Personally, look at what SE has already done to improve XP'ing outside of Abyssea (doubling XP from mobs, making unlimited FoV pages for XP purposes). Personally I think they're already doing a good job making it a more balanced environment for lower-level players. It's a simple matter of continuing these efforts.

[Mirage]

they should have nerfed it way earlier if they were going to do it at all

If they do it now, it's just going to be shitty for the people who still haven't used it

[Icestein]

I concur. I've had quite a bit of fun with some of the jobs I have leveled through leeching. I have picked them up quickly (because frankly jobs aren't particularly hard to learn) and, yeah, I played through the era of 3-6 hour long parties gaining a level or two. I don't want to go back to it. If you do, and if it's your subjective view that you want it to return to those days you are free to do so. I'm sure there are like minded people who would like to join you.

Don't, though, try to ostracize those who do not mind it.

[Dubberrucky]

I personally find 30 to be way to low. Someone at 30 has no business there they cant even contribute to the party. 70 on the other hand may be a bit high. They should look at the mobs of the zone and base the restrictions upon at least the lowest mob in the zone being killable for an alliance at its lowest level.

Also to those of you"old way sucked" people. Why did you play in the first place or did you only come in after abyssea to leech?

[rog]

I personally find 30 to be way to low. Someone at 30 has no business there they cant even contribute to the party. 70 on the other hand may be a bit high. They should look at the mobs of the zone and base the restrictions upon at least the lowest mob in the zone being killable for an alliance at its lowest level.

Also to those of you"old way sucked" people. Why did you play in the first place or did you only come in after abyssea to leech?First job is actually new, and was tolerable. second-tenth job were leveled to help in endgame/to kill time between other things/etc.

It's one thing doing something the first, second, maybe even third time. By the time you get to the 10th+ job, that 5k/hr simply doesn't cut it anymore.

[Sama]

I tend to think SE should raise the minimum level to enter Aby zones as most of us know there are way too much lvl90 n00b, but it's really hard for them to do it now...

[rog]

I tend to think SE should raise the minimum level to enter Aby zones as most of us know there are way too much lvl90 n00b, but it's really hard for them to do it now...
There have always been noobs who can't play at the max level. That didn't just start with abyssea.

[Chaani]

The leeching problem isn't anything new with Abyssea, I don't know why people keep making this argument. Leeching was a problem way back in the beginning with the people who refused to use food or equip useful gear even when useful gear (beetle earrings, spike necklaces, and appropriate stat rings) was plentiful and cheap on the AH. Before Abyssea very very frequently in a 6-person pick-up party you'd have people equipped with a fishing rod, chocobo whistle and an XP-ring, leeching off those of us who chose to equip ourselves properly.

The problem isn't Abyssea, it's the choices that other players make. I am completely against raising the entrance caps, but I am not going to condemn people from choosing to XP outside of Abyssea especially in the higher XP environment that SE added last month.

If you want to level the traditional way then make traditional parties, throw up your seek flag and start sending out invite tells, be pro-active. If leveling this way is superior to Abyssea, more people will join, but don't condemn those of us who choose to level our 20th+ job over mains and alts using dominion ops after having played for eight years.

[Dubberrucky]

actually you are correct the problem isn't abyssea. Abyssea just took and existing problem and made it worse exponentially.

[Gwynplaine]

Chaani captures my sentiments exactly.

[Sama]

There have always been noobs who can't play at the max level. That didn't just start with abyssea.

Haha let me rephrase this: There are way too much OVERNIGHT lvl90 n00bs.

How's that?

[azjazo]

I was going to pos this on the therd that got axed hahah but since its the same topic........

Wow, I took my lunch break and come back to 18 pages of Krystal trolling us all, keep it classy people :D

That said, Krystal has a point in being upset on the leaches, nobody likes to work their arses out in benefit or another unknown person that is not just leaching but not learning the job etc, but yeah, (s)he is just attacking people at this point, kinda fun to watch tho.

But that is easily solved just kicking out of parties those kinds of people, well, a leach or two are fine for opening coffers and stuff, AFK people are just being unpolite but that is something that it would happen even if abyssea were granting regular boring low exp and was just accesible for an arbitrary high lvl, so no point in using the Abyssea system as an scapegoat for not educating people to work in a party for their spot (not being AFK, opening coffers, tossing a couple of cures from time to time, comic relief etc)

Still, my point stands, reducing the grind is good regardless of the number of High level Noobs (HLN for short) it could generate, as is not the game fault but the people, and its just a matter of time till those people die from stupidity at their jobs, or get good at it in he time it would took them to get to cap anyway.

Take it as a process of recalibrating, the game is sure changing but it has always done, you can keep up with the changes then you a re free to leave, take a breath, enjoy your backlog of games and come back to see if everything is the boring way you used to like or if you lernt to like the new wave.

Sure its kinda "sad" how I worked my arse off to get my yinyang robe and now a crapload of gear gives that refresh and stuff but I enjoyed the ride so I wont hate newcomers, feel sorry for them to not ever experiencing the fear that it was to walk to jeuno with a bunch of low level players and learn the propper way to sneak past some types of mobs, the ... ok I am divagating again but the point is, you had your nice experience, cool, other people dont? too bad, maybe you can convince someone to level the hard way with you.

The game is not dead, maybe it got more "lazzy" and "stupid" but also more "fun", you still have parts that can reward you for countless hours of effort, take the magian trials, the mythic wapons, and you can still show us bunch of noobs that you have no life and spent 100+ hours getting an imaginary sword :D, hey at least makes you look cool...

[HFX7686]

Please don't raise the minimum. There's no reason to raise it. People are still free to level in other zones if they want.

[Kagato]

ITT: Please don't take away our easy mode!

I'm for a level requirement raise. Ever since EXP got doubled and FoV can be spammed, leveling my corsair from 1-50 only took 2 weeks of casual play, duoing with a friend for 3 hours every other day. It's not hard to speed-level without abyssea. People just want instant results I guess.

Raise the level requirement while improving ways to give purpose to the rest of the game zones for exp gain. The exp increase and FoV has done wonders.

And for those who are saying "People have a choice," understand that humans are greedy and lazy and will ALWAYS choose the path that gives the greatest reward for the least amount of work. The only way to keep temptation away is to place it out of reach, and I only chose not to because my friend is new and I wanted to level up with her outside of Abyssea. It was fast as well as fun.

[Cream_Soda]

understand that humans are greedy and lazy and will ALWAYS choose the path that gives the greatest reward for the least amount of work.


and I only chose not to because my friend is new and I wanted to level up with her outside of Abyssea.

A) If that were true, you wouldn't have people like the OP
B) Always is a pretty big word, especially when you capitalize it. I find it funny you find an exception only a few sentences later.

[Vinc]

And for those who are saying "People have a choice," understand that humans are greedy and lazy and will ALWAYS choose the path that gives the greatest reward for the least amount of work.

So this is being greedy and lazy, and not smart? People asking for archaic methods baffle me.

[Greatguardian]

ITT: People will "ALWAYS" do things one way unless they enjoy doing it another way.

[Naturebeckles]

"People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. "

So... for those of you who love to level up quick, yeah... the old way sucked. But guess what? The "old way" produces BETTER PLAYERS. Yes, that's right. I said it. The old way produced better players. How can you learn a job by partying or soloing to 30 and then key whoring the rest of the way until you're finally able to hit something for skillups 70+? The new way may be awesome for leveling up fast, but that's all it's good for. For casual players or, for those of us who appreciate working hard to level so we can actually LEARN how to play our jobs along the way, the old way is still the best way to go. The old way is still available and still being used by people. So, at least SE left that option open for the smart people.

[rog]

will ALWAYS choose the path that gives the greatest reward for the least amount of work.Duh? Why wouldn't we?

[Unaisis]

There were still Crap players back when exp was Crap. Even back when most an easy prey gave was 25 exp and most a decent gave was 50, there were crap players. Crap players are Crap players~ doesn't matter how fast he or she leveled their job.

whats this about the old exp was better for casual players? do you even know what Casual means? Grinding and working hard to gain a couple of levels a day was not casual at all. The old exp was for Hard core EXP grinding if you wanted to get somewhere in a decent amount of time.

[Vinc]

The "old way" produces BETTER PLAYERS. Yes, that's right. I said it. The old way produced better players. How can you learn a job by partying or soloing to 30 and then key whoring the rest of the way

Majority of the people using this argument are poor players, in current standing, either by gear or skill. The 6 man play style of old exp parties in no way reflects how to play a job in endgame. Stop confusing yourself.

[Aliekber]

How can you learn a job by partying or soloing to 30 and then key whoring the rest of the way until you're finally able to hit something for skillups 70+?

Step 1) Look up the job on FFXIclopedia. Read about the job, and ask questions on forums for any clarification you need.

Step 2) Use FFXIAH's gear set creator to put together what gear you want to use.

Step 3) Gather the gear.

Step 4) Spend an hour making macros.

Step 5) Cap your skills.

Step 6) Use the job, and be better than the sea of full Perle/Aurore/Teal players. Develop reflexes over a week or two of endgame play.

Step 7) The Old Way player who started the job at the same time as you is still in Wajaom Woodlands killing birds.

[Babygyrl]

I totally agree with this.. im sos sick of people constantly wanting to leech in pts.. and it killed low level partying.. Aby should have never allowed people so low to begin with.. and it made the costs of scrolls sky rocket cuz everyone leveled every job with ease..

[Seis]

"People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. "

So... for those of you who love to level up quick, yeah... the old way sucked. But guess what? The "old way" produces BETTER PLAYERS. Yes, that's right. I said it. The old way produced better players. How can you learn a job by partying or soloing to 30 and then key whoring the rest of the way until you're finally able to hit something for skillups 70+? The new way may be awesome for leveling up fast, but that's all it's good for. For casual players or, for those of us who appreciate working hard to level so we can actually LEARN how to play our jobs along the way, the old way is still the best way to go. The old way is still available and still being used by people. So, at least SE left that option open for the smart people.

Grinding crabs from 10-70 didn't magically create better players. Nor will I make the assertion that spending a month going from 60-70 magically made someone talented at their job, though I'd still have given it some credit back when we didn't have any abilities to learn in that level range.

Frankly, I'd prefer people spend a month learning how to play their job at 90 with all of the abilities/subs the job has to offer, than spending that time only learning how to pass the days in an exp party.

[Cream_Soda]

"People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. "

So... for those of you who love to level up quick, yeah... the old way sucked. But guess what? The "old way" produces BETTER PLAYERS. Yes, that's right. I said it. The old way produced better players. How can you learn a job by partying or soloing to 30 and then key whoring the rest of the way until you're finally able to hit something for skillups 70+? The new way may be awesome for leveling up fast, but that's all it's good for. For casual players or, for those of us who appreciate working hard to level so we can actually LEARN how to play our jobs along the way, the old way is still the best way to go. The old way is still available and still being used by people. So, at least SE left that option open for the smart people.
No, it in no way shape or form produced better players.

I know people who have astral/abyssea burned a job and played it a week who were better at the job than people who have been playing it since day one.

[MarkovChain]

It's impossible for them to increase the level requirement because it would now mean the average casual player would take 1 year + to get to 75, which is completely unattractive due to the amount of level 90 already, and would compeletely destroy balance between pre and post 75. If anything I would suggest to ease the way you get exp in old zones from level 1 to 90. I know they doubled the exp recently but really it's not that much of a big change (6 month of playing 2-4 evenings a week to get a 75?). For instance put exp in treasure caskets, decuplate the fov final exp reward, increase sanction/signet bonus, allow to convert cp to exp, let the rank missions earn you a great exp bonus ( one level worth ?), decuplate campaign exp. Make it so the average guy that logs 2H can get like 50k in the evening, seems correct to me. They could also add quick ways to build exp at 30 in abyssea solo.

[Yopop]

You'll split up the replies into a couple categories

The group that would be okay with it
the group that couldn't handle leveling the old way because they think their awesome because they can kill things in Abyssea :) and that's about where their skill ends

[Madmax]

It's not broken so don't fix it. Key whoring is no different than Astral flow parties, except it costs a lot less to get a leech spot if you make your own abyssea party. If you know how Abyssea works and already have at least one job that you leveled all the way the "old" way, why not. I can say right now if I was a new player and new it would take a year to get one job to level 90 I wouldn't want to play the game at all. And with all the level 90 jobs I have now (7), there is no way I would do it all again. It took a long time to reach those levels and many days skilling up. Leave it alone.

[Kuishen]

You'll split up the replies into a couple categories

The group that would be okay with it
the group that couldn't handle leveling the old way because they think their awesome because they can kill things in Abyssea :) and that's about where their skill ends

It's this kind of thinking that creates idiotic suggestions like this entire topic.

Good players were always good regardless of how they leveled their jobs, bad players are always going to be bad players regardless of how they do things. While it is possible for a bad player to become a good player, it's unlikely because the very thing that makes them a bad player is lack of research and knowledge of game mechanics, which you need to become a good player.

The leveling process has nothing to do with what separates a good and bad player.

[rog]

Why are you guys saying a year to get to 75? It was faster in 2003. That is not even close to reasonable in 2011, not even for a brand new player.

[Starcade]

No, it in no way shape or form produced better players.

I know people who have astral/abyssea burned a job and played it a week who were better at the job than people who have been playing it since day one.

Because they kiss your behind, right?

First off, why Square-Enix allows Astral Burning (read: Zone Monopolization) is beyond any sense of my reading of the ToS.

Second, the point is that we want people to actually *gasp -- and this might shock you* play the job before they get to level 90/95/99!!

[HFX7686]

ITT: Please don't take away our easy mode!

I'm for a level requirement raise. Ever since EXP got doubled and FoV can be spammed, leveling my corsair from 1-50 only took 2 weeks of casual play, duoing with a friend for 3 hours every other day. It's not hard to speed-level without abyssea. People just want instant results I guess.

Raise the level requirement while improving ways to give purpose to the rest of the game zones for exp gain. The exp increase and FoV has done wonders.

And for those who are saying "People have a choice," understand that humans are greedy and lazy and will ALWAYS choose the path that gives the greatest reward for the least amount of work. The only way to keep temptation away is to place it out of reach, and I only chose not to because my friend is new and I wanted to level up with her outside of Abyssea. It was fast as well as fun.

Why are you the person to decide that levelling in Abyssea is greedy? Who made you the moral and ethical watchperson of FF11?

Let people play they want to play. If you want to level outside of Abyssea go for it. If someone wants to level inside of Abyssea from 30 up and you don't think they're a good player because of it, then don't do things with them.

[GlobalVariable]

Why not add some mobs appropriate for lv30 characters near the searing wards of abyssea zones?...Why was the entry requirement 30 with nothing a lv30 player can actually do in the 1st place?


Really ought to just add exp chests to old zones randomly in place of those temp items. I usually get ethers when I'm a melee job and potions when I'm a mage (and out of mp) anyway..Wouldn't be missing much..

[Cream_Soda]

Because they kiss your behind, right?

First off, why Square-Enix allows Astral Burning (read: Zone Monopolization) is beyond any sense of my reading of the ToS.

Second, the point is that we want people to actually *gasp -- and this might shock you* play the job before they get to level 90/95/99!!
We know what you want. It just so happens we don't care, frankly.

Do things your way and we'll do em our way. If you're against abyssea leveling, then level your jobs the traditional way. Nobody is stopping you.

[Rubeus]

to the "made scrolls more expensive" comment: um.. new players need money too? everyone complains about gil-buyers but isn't willing to share the golden goose. this confuses me beyond reproach.

to the "old way produces better players" comment: what old players? go statistic FFXI's average non-gil-farming Brand New player base. I could probably count them across servers on one hand. Plus, if I've levelled BLM to 90 and WHM to 90 and my ls doesnt mind me keying in abyssea on RDM... what, exactly, am i NOT learning how to do on my job? case in point: i also have BRD and THF lvled to 90; so my dancer 42 (which doesn't get invites barely at all, but greatly helps my THF solo) should be punished and -have- to FoV because everyone's off abyssea-ing while I LFP forever? I don't think so. :)

to the "people dont play their job before 90" comment: um.. towards 65+ you ARE expected to stop key-whoring and actually, you know... hit things/cure/etc. It's not a free ride unless you, the player, decides to strictly keywhore only. in which case... why are you playing this game/any job in particular if that's ALL you're going to do?

final analysis: you're stuck on reminiscing and want to force us to do it too WHILE simultaneously ignoring the economic backlash and playerbase that would STOP playing because of this. That's called ignorance, by the way. Having facts presented to you and going, "I don't see it that way so it CAN'T EXIST THAT WAY." You can't have your cake and eat it too. Get over it or go outside for 5 minutes; the real world doesn't work like this. Neither do business models.

[Alhanelem]

There is nothing wrong with the level minimum.

If you don't like the people who do this, then just don't group with them. It's not like they won't have to level up combat skills to be actually useful, and in most cases they're just raising a subjob which they never intend to use as a main.

Besides, this practice has decreased with the improvement to EXP outside of abyssea.

[ZeDingo]

Here he is whining about 30-90 in Abyssea when I had to go 65-75 on WHM in Campaign.
Though when I saw the /BRD bots, I looked up the exp tables and had an idea. I came to CB as WHM/BRD and casted absolutely everything I had while meleeing. Profit followed.

[Starcade]

We know what you want. It just so happens we don't care, frankly.

Do things your way and we'll do em our way. If you're against abyssea leveling, then level your jobs the traditional way. Nobody is stopping you.

I'm against the sitting around and leeching off the efforts of others which Abyssea has created. If that's a problem with you, then I can see why you don't care, because you also don't care about anything other than yourself.

[Starcade]

Here he is whining about 30-90 in Abyssea when I had to go 65-75 on WHM in Campaign.
Though when I saw the /BRD bots, I looked up the exp tables and had an idea. I came to CB as WHM/BRD and casted absolutely everything I had while meleeing. Profit followed.

... until Square-Enix got smart and nailed the BRD bots.

[ZeDingo]

... until Square-Enix got smart and nailed the BRD bots.

Luckily I was already 74 at that point, just didn't have /DNC or smexy gear to WHM tank even a trash mob.

[Topdogg]

people are right about one thing, they should raise the min lvl for abyssea. But, tbh it's too late now. If they changed it now, there will be alot of angry people. I really do think they should raise it to lvl 50 though. Lvl 50 is a fair increase I think but honestly it shouldve been Lvl 75 at the start. But again it's too late to change it now. The Lvl 30 access has just encouraged ppl to burn their jobs without caring of skillups or hands on skill and it makes it hard for others when choosing players for events because you dont know if they suck or not. Has also ruined lower lvl parties for those who dont have Abyssea. But yeah, Lvl 50 sounds fair.

[Cream_Soda]

I'm against the sitting around and leeching off the efforts of others which Abyssea has created. If that's a problem with you, then I can see why you don't care, because you also don't care about anything other than yourself.
way to assume

[Dubberrucky]

You nailed the real problem right on the head topdogg. Its not that people that do not aby burn care if you waste your money on standing around in a video game but more that it effects those of us who try and are fooled by your fake levels when we look for high level participants.

[Cream_Soda]

You're underskilled leveling the reg way, too. This has been around since level sync. Sync birds 37-55. Sync birds 55-75. Colibri merit.

Now, w/ the double exp, you'll be leveling even faster as compared to skill ups because the skill up rate sure wasn't doubled, lol.

People are going to be underskilled regardless.

Abyssea or not, you're going to have to skill your stuff up, so when it comes to that. If the person sucks, kick them. It's as simple as that.

[Greatguardian]

If the person sucks, kick them. It's as simple as that.

This. Why is this so hard to grasp? If someone doesn't have spells, skills, or the ability to even land their spells then remove them from the group.

Honestly, the "real issue" can be completely avoided by just doing things with people you know and trust anyways. I promise there are competent, nice people somewhere on whatever server you're on. Find them, do stuff with them, don't worry about any random unskilled leech trying to ruin your fun.

[kewitt]

I used to be all over this. But I've given in.

I wouldn't mind the min level being raise to 50 but currently.

Level 20-30 about 2 days duoing with rings.
Level 30-40 about 3 days with duoing with rings.
Level 40-50 about 4 days with duoing with rings.
level 50-60 forever!
level 60-70 Kill me now.
level 70-90 a day or 2 at most.

People knowning they can just abyssea from 30-cap doesn't help make parties who wants to party when they can go from 30 - 70+ in a day abyssea.

I can't take the time to seek for 1-3 hours just to party for 2 hours.

I wouldn't mind it being raise to 50, but 70 isn't worth it.

[ZeDingo]

This. Why is this so hard to grasp? If someone doesn't have spells, skills, or the ability to even land their spells then remove them from the group.

Honestly, the "real issue" can be completely avoided by just doing things with people you know and trust anyways. I promise there are competent, nice people somewhere on whatever server you're on. Find them, do stuff with them, don't worry about any random unskilled leech trying to ruin your fun.
I laugh pretty hard at all of the BLM90s we have on Vale now, with maybe half having all of their proc spells. Yeah.... they bought t5, skipped right past t3-4.

[Fiarlia]

I'd rather spend my online time actively getting things done to improve my character and my group of friends. Having multiple jobs makes this easier. Taking weeks or months (depending on someones available playtime and current in game schedules of doing stuff) to get new jobs leveled is kinda counterproductive. You either spend less time doing group stuff just to level new jobs to get back into the group stuff you're neglecting, or you say screw it and just keep at it with the same tired jobs, being unable to expand your capabilities (due to lack of available jobs). Hell, even if everyone has the same jobs, it's nice to rotate so nobody gets stuck as perma-WHM, or perma-MNK, or perma whatever.

I quite enjoy having more jobs at max level. And I'm going to get more at maxed level. And they're going to be leeched.

People who who think that leveling the old fashioned way should be the only option are seriously.... I can't even think of a suitable way to put it on these forums wouldn't getting in some sort of trouble, so I'll just stop there.

And the vast majority of the real world population is stupid. Since we're all dealing with people that hail from this real world, we're all bound to run into many stupid players. Forcing someone to level the old fashioned way will not make them smart or good at the job if they already weren't ever going to be due to the aforementioned stupidity. It will not keep them from getting to the max level either. All it will do is make them take longer. Honestly, how many people have never run across a multitude of idiots while playing the game? They exist, and they always will. If you don't like it, try making friends with good players. Join a small group, or start one. Start a linkshell, a small one would probably be best given the nature of the game these days. Stop partying with these people that make you think this is a good idea! Once you can get yourself away from these players that make you QQ about everyone getting to 90 easily... guess what? You'll stop QQing!

[Cream_Soda]

You'll stop QQing!
http://i33.tinypic.com/28lb4uf.jpg

good one

[Topdogg]

I laugh pretty hard at all of the BLM90s we have on Vale now, with maybe half having all of their proc spells. Yeah.... they bought t5, skipped right past t3-4.

I saw a 90BLM in party the other day use a Warp Cudgel.

[ZeDingo]

I saw a 90BLM in party the other day use a Warp Cudgel.

That's great. Took a moment to set in, too. My first thought was "wtf no ele staves?"

[rog]

I saw a 90BLM in party the other day use a Warp Cudgel.
Could be because he forgot he was on blm. I did that quite often, as well as used tele rings while /whm, etc.

[Fiarlia]

I never understood why people would party with window-lickers like that. Now or before.

[Starcade]

I never understood why people would party with window-lickers like that. Now or before.

You'd be surprised at the number of window-lickers in FFXI.

[Fiarlia]

You'd be surprised at the number of window-lickers in FFXI.

Someone didn't even read or respond to my previous post.


...shoot you didn't even read and understand the post that you quoted.

[Dubberrucky]

Well on a happy note those of us who believe that aby burning is cheap. Think of it this way the trend has already begun on my server of the aby burners getting all their jobs to 90, grabbing gear as fast as they can, getting bored, and leaving the game. By next year its only logical most of the aby burners will be done and leave FFXI to those of us who like the entire game not just part of it and a sense of accomplishment in getting our jobs to 90. Even though this will probably mean more server merges which never seem to go well.

[Starcade]

Someone didn't even read or respond to my previous post.


...shoot you didn't even read and understand the post that you quoted.

Let's put it this way: Even with the number of idiots you believe are around, you'd STILL be surprised as to how far low off the mark you are.

[Fiarlia]

Let's put it this way: Even with the number of idiots you believe are around, you'd STILL be surprised as to how far low off the mark you are.

And this has exactly what to do with the actual point of either of my posts?

Swing and a miss.

[Starcade]

And this has exactly what to do with the actual point of either of my posts?

Swing and a miss.

Then you fouled off several pitches in making your point clearer.

[rog]

Well on a happy note those of us who believe that aby burning is cheap. Think of it this way the trend has already begun on my server of the aby burners getting all their jobs to 90, grabbing gear as fast as they can, getting bored, and leaving the game. By next year its only logical most of the aby burners will be done and leave FFXI to those of us who like the entire game not just part of it and a sense of accomplishment in getting our jobs to 90. Even though this will probably mean more server merges which never seem to go well.
That is pretty far from logical.

[Fiarlia]

Then you fouled off several pitches in making your point clearer.

I'm assuming you're trying to troll me, but instead of getting angry I'll just explain.

1) Stupid people are everywhere.

2) Leveling in any way (leeching, traditional, level sync, astral flow burn, TPburn, SC+MB, campaigning, EXP Scroll questing) will not alter their stupidity. Pretending it will is in and of itself, stupid, as there's no way to raise a persons intelligence level (significantly, anyway).

3) Stop playing and associating with the stupid people, and your problem will be solved. Smart people, regardless of how they leveled, will have leveled their skills, gotten their spells, and spend extra time getting quest weapon skills and so on and so forth. Any whining and complaining you are doing can be solved by not playing with the stupid people.

[Dubberrucky]

actually rog it is logical. To read up on the rules of logic I suggest the book Logic for Beginners its written very simply you may find it at most college bookstores. But that is off topic please continue when you have an actual argument.

[Dubberrucky]

Sadly Fiarila there is no way to distinguish the stupid from smart until you have already wasted your time on them which is never fun.

[Xilk]

Consider this: Everyone insisting a higher minimum cap for abyssea because of level 90 players who don't know there job are telling everyone else how to play the game. Moreso, you are telling the developers to change things to affect how other people play the game. You are trying to make other people play how you want.

I purchased ffxi. I pay my subscription. That deal is between me and SE. There are certain community expectation and points of conduct that should be respected and adhered to. However, these social rules only extend to social situations.

IE> you already have recourse for this kind of play or bad behavior. Stop trying to boss everyone else around and tell them how they can or cannot play a gaime. If you find someone is so appallingly horrible to play with... don't play with them, don't party with them. and Stop trying to tell me how I should play the game. If you don't like it, don't play with me. I'll return the same favor.

I've never told a player "you're doing it wrong".


grrr... thought I hit reply to thread...

[Xilk]

Sadly Fiarila there is no way to distinguish the stupid from smart until you have already wasted your time on them which is never fun.

which is the same whether they leech in abyssea or not.

[Dubberrucky]

I agree believe it or not Xilk. The ratio has just shifted significantly since leeching became so common.

[Fiarlia]

Sadly Fiarila there is no way to distinguish the stupid from smart until you have already wasted your time on them which is never fun.

/check <playername> will usually give you a general idea. >_>

Full teal gear and INT wands at 90? Probably a durrhurr.

Scorpion Harness WAR at 90? Your guess is probably accurate.

Full AF1 or AF2 at 90? Probably! Full NQ AF3? Yep yep!

Full Morrigan's on BLM? /nod

/check'ing isn't always foolproof, I'll admit that. But come on. Between seeing the gear choices some people have made, and standing in Port Jeuno and reading some of the /shouts you see... I'm just gonna have to say that you're flat out wrong that it's not possible to determine if someone is stupid before wasting time.

[Dubberrucky]

/check <playername> will usually give you a general idea. >_>

Full teal gear and INT wands at 90? Probably a durrhurr.

Scorpion Harness WAR at 90? Your guess is probably accurate.

Full AF1 or AF2 at 90? Probably! Full NQ AF3? Yep yep!

Full Morrigan's on BLM? /nod

/check'ing isn't always foolproof, I'll admit that. But come on. Between seeing the gear choices some people have made, and standing in Port Jeuno and reading some of the /shouts you see... I'm just gonna have to say that you're flat out wrong that it's not possible to determine if someone is stupid before wasting time.

Actually if you did that to me you would be for BLM for example I swap 4 sets of gear what you would see may be any one of them causing any of your durrhurr moments. Secondly half the time people reply they are on one of several jobs they have to offer so no still not good enough.

[Fiarlia]

It's really not that hard. Especially to look at the chat log and see what spell you were casting and looking at the gear you're wearing for that spell. I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult. And usually, if someone is well geared, or smartly gear, or at the very least ATTEMPTING to "do it right" on one job, they usually will be on their other jobs. It's like you're trying to make up excuses as to why you wouldn't be able to figure out who is stupid in a vain attempt to lend credibility to the idea that restricting access to Abyssea would help in any way at all (protip: it won't).

I suppose I'll just wrap this up by saying if you're unable to discern the relative intelligence of someone fairly quickly... well, you may not be one of the people that are actively sought out for a smaller group of friends to do stuff with.

[Bahamut_Norm]

I didn't read the 9 pages of this tread to make this reply, and I know that makes me a tool.

But for all that is love and Altana, please do the action in the subject of this thread.

You didn't let people spam -na spells to gain levels by doing nothing in Campaign Battle, why start now?

[Draylo]

No thanks @ OP

[rog]

I didn't read the 9 pages of this tread to make this reply, and I know that makes me a tool.

But for all that is love and Altana, please do the action in the subject of this thread.

You didn't let people spam -na spells to gain levels by doing nothing in Campaign Battle, why start now?
They aren't starting now, we've been leeching exp for years with chigoe, and astral burns anyway. Don't pretend free exp didn't exist prior to abyssea.

[Fiarlia]

Don't forget the actual exp scrolls, which you could do on your 75 job and then use on your level 20 job!

[rog]

I forgot about that because it's not even worth mentioning. Since toau we've had the means to leech upwards of 50k+/hr with chigoes, and then astral burns became practical with level sync.

[Dubberrucky]

You miss the point Fiarlia you will have already wasted your time by the time you get a worthless person somewhere. You apparently are one of the time wasters I refer to but you are fun to frustrate in forums :)

[Greatguardian]

Stop doing anything that requires random people. You won't have anything left to complain about that way. It's like it's so easy to just completely ignore the solution that's been presented by half a dozen people a couple dozen times now. Get friends. Don't join shouts, or shout for anything. Any half-competent DD can kill EXP mobs in Heroes zones for Dominion Ops at a rate equal or greater to your average EXP alliance, so there's absolutely no need for any "Good" player to put themselves through the kind of anguish you're lamenting over. MNK+WHM can literally duo any NM in the entirety of Abyssea if procs are a non-issue. Even then, you can have a full Red/Blue/Grellow proc set with as low as 6 people (MNK/WAR, WAR/NIN, NIN/WAR, BLU/NIN, BLM/BRD, WHM/whatever).

Make friends. Do things with people you know. Don't deal with randoms in the first place if you're worried about them wasting your time.

[Dubberrucky]

OK lets take the social aspect of the game and throw it out the window yeah that sounds like fun.

I may be in the minority in this respect but I join pickup groups because I actually enjoy the social nature of the game. But sure your suggestion is great all of us who don't like leeches should just join chat rooms for offline rpgs gottcha ;) oh wait who will you leech of of if you command us to leave? but then again you want to ignore the other half so preach on we have differing opinions and that's just what they are opinions.

[rog]

or you could play with friends, instead of random people.

[Dubberrucky]

Hmm maybe that's it I have played for 6 years and never managed to make a single friend. Thanks I never realized that.

/end sarcasim

on the other hand all friends start as random people or has everyone here forgotten that little detail?

[Arcalimo]

Well,now a days is very hard to level a job w/o have friends that let you leech from level 30 to 75, since no one wants exp party and either want a unknown leech in their aby group, and more if is a new player that gets his first level 30 and doesnt ever have cruor for key whoring.
It's sad that you need other people to make you the favor and let you get your levels, and that's what happens today.
For us, old players, there is no problem, we have our friends and all our shit done.
But for new players its not fair, and if we want the game to last long time we need to think on new players too as the old players will eventually get tired and leave, and someone has to join the game for replace them.
i'm not against leeching since ive done and i will do it if it remains of course.
But honestly, something has to be made for the low levels, even if it means raise the cap of abyssea to 70 or 75, not returning back to the past of course, they have enhanced the exp already, raise the exp again if needed, make it equal to what we would be getting in abyssea, but make people work for it, if you go with a level 30, that level 30 should be doing something, leeching isnt play the game.
And im sure that exp outside abyssea were as easy to get as inside, old people wouldnt mind in exp outside, or keywhoring is more fun that actually playing the job?

[Greatguardian]

OK lets take the social aspect of the game and throw it out the window yeah that sounds like fun.

I may be in the minority in this respect but I join pickup groups because I actually enjoy the social nature of the game. But sure your suggestion is great all of us who don't like leeches should just join chat rooms for offline rpgs gottcha ;) oh wait who will you leech of of if you command us to leave? but then again you want to ignore the other half so preach on we have differing opinions and that's just what they are opinions.

What's funny is the assertion that I need anyone to leech off of.

Regardless, you're talking yourself in circles. Either you enjoy going around with huge groups of random people, which will *Always* lead to the possibility of getting a dud player or two, or you don't want to waste your valuable time on bad players. Meeting new people is a risk. Sometimes people are dumb. Overwhelmingly, people are really dumb. Occasionally you find an intelligent person who shares similar playtimes and goals with you.

You cannot expect the entire playerbase to suddenly become smart. Adding level restrictions to Abyssea will not suddenly make dumb people less dumb. Before Abyssea, people still walked around without weapons skilled up. You had mages running around without even half of their spells. CORs ran around in level 1 bullets, /WHM, with the AF gun and only level 1-40's worth of rolls. BLUs would skip and frolic about with less than half their spells learned. I'm afraid you're going to have to get over it.

Focus less on arbitrary "improvements" to everyone else and more on improving yourself as a player.

[Seis]

OK lets take the social aspect of the game and throw it out the window yeah that sounds like fun.

I may be in the minority in this respect but I join pickup groups because I actually enjoy the social nature of the game. But sure your suggestion is great all of us who don't like leeches should just join chat rooms for offline rpgs gottcha ;) oh wait who will you leech of of if you command us to leave? but then again you want to ignore the other half so preach on we have differing opinions and that's just what they are opinions.

I don't get it, you want to socialize, but you absolutely hate the results of socializing.

Socializing with 'tards is frustrating, okay fair enough... but you're saying you basically enjoy doing things with randoms you've never met, and yet expect that they'll mostly be sufficiently intelligent to not waste your time. I don't know what world you're living in, but neither the real one or any virtual one has such a population.

The old method sucked, what it meant was you spent all day looking for groups because there simply weren't enough players to do what you wanted, and that RDM that *would* have completed your group couldn't afford refresh or dispel and wanted to melee. At least now you can afford to boot whoever whenever because you know that there's a large enough pool of people to choose from.

Oh btw, this stuffs so easy you can literally leech off yourself and level a job in a day soloing dominion ops from a different account. So no tears will be shed if the people who want to level slow were to disappear.

[rog]

Hmm maybe that's it I have played for 6 years and never managed to make a single friend. Thanks I never realized that.

/end sarcasim

on the other hand all friends start as random people or has everyone here forgotten that little detail?Or they could be a friend of a friend. That is a slightly higher rank than random person.

[Dubberrucky]

Well,now a days is very hard to level a job w/o have friends that let you leech from level 30 to 75, since no one wants exp party and either want a unknown leech in their aby group, and more if is a new player that gets his first level 30 and doesnt ever have cruor for key whoring.
It's sad that you need other people to make you the favor and let you get your levels, and that's what happens today.
For us, old players, there is no problem, we have our friends and all our shit done.
But for new players its not fair, and if we want the game to last long time we need to think on new players too as the old players will eventually get tired and leave, and someone has to join the game for replace them.
i'm not against leeching since ive done and i will do it if it remains of course.
But honestly, something has to be made for the low levels, even if it means raise the cap of abyssea to 70 or 75, not returning back to the past of course, they have enhanced the exp already, raise the exp again if needed, make it equal to what we would be getting in abyssea, but make people work for it, if you go with a level 30, that level 30 should be doing something, leeching isnt play the game.
And im sure that exp outside abyssea were as easy to get as inside, old people wouldnt mind in exp outside, or keywhoring is more fun that actually playing the job?

And bingo someone gets the whole point of the discussion :)

[Dubberrucky]

btw Greatgaurdian, Seis, and rog (who posted else ware that he doesn't even play but meh) you have all still missed the point is this is all opinion.

[rog]

rog (who posted else ware that he doesn't even play but meh)
Is that important? I played from 2003, up until a month or two ago, and have been keeping up with new things.

[Dubberrucky]

because its rather silly to be so defensive about something that doesn't effect you but that's your choice so meh not worth to take your opinion into account but out of courtesy point it out to you as well that you still missed the point.

[Kraggy]

btw Greatgaurdian, Seis, and rog (who posted else ware that he doesn't even play but meh) you have all still missed the point is this is all opinion.
Rog doesn't recognise the validity of opinions other than his own, so sometimes he fails to see the point.

[rog]

because its rather silly to be so defensive about something that doesn't effect you but that's your choice so meh not worth to take your opinion into account but out of courtesy point it out to you as well that you still missed the point.
Right, clearly because i'm not playing right now, means my opinion is worthless.

[Starcade]

I'm assuming you're trying to troll me, but instead of getting angry I'll just explain.

1) Stupid people are everywhere.


And you're missing my point. It's as if intelligence is actually a defect or a disability in our society.

(FAR beyond FFXI)


2) Leveling in any way (leeching, traditional, level sync, astral flow burn, TPburn, SC+MB, campaigning, EXP Scroll questing) will not alter their stupidity. Pretending it will is in and of itself, stupid, as there's no way to raise a persons intelligence level (significantly, anyway).


But there's at least a chance these people might get a few blunt blows to the head and be shown actually how to play a game rather than get to level 75 BLM with ZERO magic skill. (*cough*RMT*cough*)


3) Stop playing and associating with the stupid people, and your problem will be solved. Smart people, regardless of how they leveled, will have leveled their skills, gotten their spells, and spend extra time getting quest weapon skills and so on and so forth. Any whining and complaining you are doing can be solved by not playing with the stupid people.

You're missing the point.

There are SO MANY STUPID PEOPLE that to not associate with them means dissociating oneself from pretty much everything, and, again, that goes far beyond FFXI.

I couldn't play FFXI without associating with stupid people. Hence, my blacklist is straining to the maximum.

My point is that, no matter how many stupid people you think there are, there are far more than you expect.

[tarolin]

actually i think it should be level 50 or 60 to enter abyssea , i think thats a fair number then maybe we would have better players in the game =P

[Xilk]

And bingo someone gets the whole point of the discussion :)

Except its not. They just doubled XP. Sorry even if you have no friends and have to solo the whole thing, exp up is not that hard anymore.

furthermore, you are taking far too narrow of a tact here.

You are prescribing how everyone else should play to meet how you want it.

You are assuming you are arguing w/ people who want to leech.
I leeched my support jobs from 37 up to 50. Why? I don't want to re-gear jobs I am not going to play except for support jobs.

I want to be able to leech more support jobs up, but even moreso, I want to use my AoE nuking blu to help friends out and help them up a few jobs.

You are going to run into the same problem burning a level 75 job straight up to 90 also. They are going to be underskilled, and under geared.

I also took by bluemage up from level 63 in abyssea. I was decently geared at 63, but by 75 I had garbage, at 77 I had a decent base set (aurore) and the rest was garbage. I had plenty of good atma though. I played Healer as blu/whm at that level. At 77 i switched to melee.

Because of my atma, I was plenty effective for a full alliance for exp. It took a little bit of work to finish out my spell sets and finish my skill ups... I suffered from all the downsides to leveling quickly in abyssea vs leveling slowly. However, I was very useful to the alliances because I was smart about how I played.

Level floor increase for abyssea will NOT change this. It is not worth putting a needless time sync in front of the majority of players.

[tarolin]

thats true exp is doubled and skill ups are easier i just hope either exp gets reworked on abyssea so that its not as important. Also i remember seeing a post where someone said , i dont want to level the old way ....... playing the game is the old way.

[Tohihroyu]

/sigh if this Dynamis update happens there will be Dynaburns for those in between Abyssburns >_> and along with Dynaburns *gasp* ninja lotters, people entering purely to leech the win & gtfo...sad to admit... a DL mpk would be kinda funny...but at the same time a nuisance...just in general bad.

they double our exp gain, remove the restriction on FoV yet people still wanna cheat because its just not good enough for the spoiled little babies because leveling up the "old way" is still "tedious" along with more & more QQ-ing when this game is & will keep being easy mode...though its been around before abyssea ever since abysea come out FFXI's gamer attitude has gotten more & more...well stupid.

now for Topic *if* the actually do raise the cap 65 is also good its the same as Dynamis...besides Dynamis itself with become yet another abyssea anyway.

I agree with Starcade on not just this but on many other posts he put up. (I know that alone will have me get trolled lol)

[Refresh]

will you all stop crying about the old ffxi no one cares about lvling up low lvl jobs thats why. do you wish to seek for weeks when you can just get 90 in a day or two then try being on a help full job like whm or war. the fun is at end when the job is at full power 90-99 full gear etc hope this gets locked by SE l like the last one for wasteing time. if the cap is 75 for abyssea why a new player buy the 3 abyssea he then give up because of no exp partys at lower lvls costing SE a loss 42-55$ if the player was on for a month or two your asking SE to stop makeing $ off the abyssea exp thats why it will Never be locked by lvl it cost them a net loss in $ for the company. so get over it

[Wade]

I have been playing for about 5 years now I think. The exp when I started, was 50 for DC and less for EP. I was actually one of those who solo'd up to 30. Now that was tough back then. It made me start dual boxing. Just recently, I started some new characters and within a month I have a couple jobs at 50 and 40 and I'm just duoing. I was actually in a party in Qufim with just one of my characters and wow, the new EXP is awesome.

So there have been a lot of changes over the years, level sync, FoV and now Aby. Personally I don't really care if people leech. People have always leeched in some form or another. I think Aby has made it easier, but whatever. Also, there has always been that wanting to get to cap so you could do the endgame stuff and I can understand that wanting. You join a linkshell, but everyone is doing high level stuff but you can't. Speeding to 90 allows you to hang with your friends and I get that.

For me though, the enjoyment of playing a game is for the memories, from start to finish. There isn't much memory in going from 30-90 in a one day, but that's just what I think. I do realize though, that a lot of people will say that the memories start at 90, which, hey if that's what you want, that's okay too. As for events, if you are doing an important event, I don't think it's too hard to just stick with your friends you have made and trust to do it. Also, there are certain jobs you can take where there is not much skill needed. On the flip side, you can still do other parties etc with "Newish" people at 90. If anything, give them advice on how to play the job better, if they are struggling. We all have to learn our jobs. Some of us are lucky enough to have mentors. On a side note, leveling the old way did help learn the job. I'm not saying everyone learned it, but it did help because you learned techniques through experience.

But in the end, none of this really matters because the only real important thing is that we are supposed to be playing to have fun. There will always be disappointments in life. It doesn't matter if it is online or not. You can't let others take away from your enjoyment. I play to have fun. I come home from work, pop on the game and do whatever sounds like fun. We all, should be able to do what we want in the game that makes us happy. I mean that's why we pay to play ;)

Sorry if this post is a little scattered, just got done reading all 11 pages of this and my mind was all over the place :D

[Runespider]

Ultimately raising the level requirement for Abyssea to 70+ is what would be best for FFXI players as a whole. Most people that like the current system simply like it because of selfish reasons, and I suppose I can't blame them for wanting an easy way to XP that but thats not how the game should work. Having something that helps the few but which has a direct negative effect on EVERYONE else is obviously bad for the game.

Personally I don't care if abyssea leeching makes bad players, not my problem or care. What I do care about is that simply put, the leeching problem now causes massive problems for everyone else that plays this game, especially new players or returnees. As a development team I would assume your primary goal is to not lose new and returning players and if this is the case, Abyssea leeching should be a very big concern for you to fix asap.

Everyone likes to be able to gain XP in parties(level sync was added to boost this), the fact is though that the vast majority of players don't want and indeed never will make their own parties. The minority that would and used to make parties now instead build an Abyssea alliance or leech off friends. This means there are no more xp invites or parties being made for everyone else, therefor new players without any contacts can no longer get invited to XP and instead have to solo to 75 using FoV. This also has a knock on effect that these players can't really make social contacts and get into linkshells as they used to. you could say that is the problem of the players but honestly as a dev team i'm sure you know people will not change their ways and instead they will have their flag up unsuccessfully for a long time and in the end most probably quit cause they just cannot get parties to level.

If a Dev reads this I hope you understand how bad this is for anyone trying to gain XP, please raise the minimum level to enter Abyssea to 70 and make the game work better for everyone.

The whole XP system took a nosedive after abyssea and it having the min level req of 30 is the main reason, it's obvious the devs are trying to counter this with double xp etc but until you fix the problem I mentioned nothing is going to change.

*before anyone mentions Astral flow parties that is nothign like the same thing, very limited amounts of groups can work effectively doing AB due to limited workable zones and they take a lot more effort to setup. Continually deleveling sync mules, having set jobs etc etc. Aby leeching just requires being able to shout in port jeuno which as I say means anyone that has the inclination to form a normal pt will just do that instead.

[Wade]

I don't know, since the exp boost, I have actually been seeing parties in dunes, qufim, jungles etc. Also, as soon as a new version update coupled with a level cap increase comes out, everyone will be busy getting to new cap and the new players and returnees will still suffer. The positive side is, SE changed the FoV limit and doubled exp so soloing has become a whole lot easier. It's not the greatest, but sure beats what it used to be.

[Kari]

The amount of pure stupidity in this thread is amazing.

1> Leeching does not make you a terrible player.
2> Killing Crabs and Birds for 70 levels does not make you a good player.
3> When I'm not leeching myself or a friend, I do invite random people to leech, provided they bring keys. A long Exp Party in Abyssea consumes a large amount of Cruor on keys, that I would rather have someone else blow in exchange for free exp.
4> SE offered me these 3 products. They told me, if I purchased them, I would be able to access all of it's content at level 30 or higher. SE also warned me, that although I only need to be level 30 to access the content, that the battles are intended for much higher levels.

Changing it now would just piss off a lot of people.
You would not see an increase in low-level parties. They have always been few in number.
A very large majority of jobs being leeched, are jobs they never intended to level the normal way.

Another small detail people forget to mention: Leechers don't get in for free, usually.
Keys are a bit costly, depending on the length of the party. Sure, sometimes you end up making about the same amount back, but everyone else in the party made a profit in Cruor rather than breaking even.
And, if you're leading the alliance to leech, you have to manage the alliance, which in Abyssea is a full-time job. [People love to AFK, fall asleep, randomly leech, leave randomly] You also sometimes have to key chests along with that.

[Wade]

A long Exp Party in Abyssea consumes a large amount of Cruor on keys, that I would rather have someone else blow in exchange for free exp.

This is pretty valid. If someone is willing to spend their own Cruor on this, then why not.

I wouldn't say that peoples opinions are stupid though. We all have our own feelings and ideas ;)

[MarkovChain]

Why are you guys saying a year to get to 75? It was faster in 2003. That is not even close to reasonable in 2011, not even for a brand new player.

Because not everyone plays 5 hours a day. Try getting 1-75 outside of abyssea either solo or in party (that you won't find anyway), It will take you that much time. You don't know what casual means.

[Wade]

Because not everyone plays 5 hours a day. Try getting 1-75 outside of abyssea either solo or in party (that you won't find anyway), It will take you that much time. You don't know what casual means.

In your opinion, how much time would a casual player play in a week?

[Valiarius]

That's a weird way to spell "awesome".

You're still going for that 100k post count?

[Chairman]

I disagree vehemently that raising the minimum level would be beneficial.

Over the past few months, my linkshell has had an influx of new and returning players -- people who had been interested in the game but dissuaded by their initial impressions; people who last played when Chains of Promathia was new and got the nostalgia itch, people who serendipitously picked up a FF game for $5 on Steam -- and Abyssea has been the best way of letting the veterans and novices play together without boring the veterans or excluding the novices. The new players can contribute meaningfully to the group by opening chests, doing quests and helping with Raises and Cures, instead of being inert sync targets like in Korroloka Tunnel burn parties. Most importantly, it quickly brings the new players up to speed with the rest of us, so they can participate in the real interesting stuff. They level up their skills for the Maat fight, so they're not completely helpless by the time they hit 90.

Raising the level minimum wouldn't dissuade serial leechers from finding the lowest-effort way to get EXP -- they'd just return to the slightly slower methods of summoner burns and chigoe parties.

[Cream_Soda]

But guys, before abyssea came out, average was above average! All pick up pt members were utterly epic in performance!

[darkShirou]

I remember when Abyssea first came out, finished leveling all my mains up to the new cap, and then went back to leveling my lower job (at the time, it was SAM 45).

"Hey can I join your abyssea party? NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 70, GTFO NOOB" > Back to leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 65: "Hey, let me into your abyssea part... NO, NOT HIGH ENOUGH LEVEL GTFO" > Reluctantly continue leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 69 "INVITE ME DAMMIT! Ok, you can come to abyssea :)" > Proceed to whiff forever because your skills are capped on level 40 birds from East Ronfaure (S) -_-

SAM 90 has never looked better

[Kari]

I remember when Abyssea first came out, finished leveling all my mains up to the new cap, and then went back to leveling my lower job (at the time, it was SAM 45).

"Hey can I join your abyssea party? NO, YOU HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 70, GTFO NOOB" > Back to leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 65: "Hey, let me into your abyssea part... NO, NOT HIGH ENOUGH LEVEL GTFO" > Reluctantly continue leveling in East Ronfaure (S) birds

Level 69 "INVITE ME DAMMIT! Ok, you can come to abyssea :)" > Proceed to whiff forever because your skills are capped on level 40 birds from East Ronfaure (S) -_-

SAM 90 has never looked better

Skill-up properly first.
Also, if people won't accept you, make your own.
Anyone with a few Traverser Stones and the knowledge of getting Visitant Status can make a party and have it work out for itself.
Even if you don't have Cruor for Keys, recruit one or two box openers and then start keying after you have some Cruor.

[Coldbrand]

We should just go back to 20 levels of robber crabs too, because that made really good players...

[sc4500]

No allow lv30 players and what not , allows all players to have FUN, not be frustrated like old days. yea there gimp as hell but they will learn and go get there skill ups and what not, what need be done though make it harder on endgame once square done making game easy.
Yes it has sucks spending years on game then seeing a person level up in day a few lv90;s but you will still got something they never got that is game exp.
Amount returning players on new players would hate it , so back to servers 1/4 full.
ABYSSEA should been on the game 3 yrs ago and none this would been a point about lvs.

[Cream_Soda]

Well on a happy note those of us who believe that aby burning is cheap. Think of it this way the trend has already begun on my server of the aby burners getting all their jobs to 90, grabbing gear as fast as they can, getting bored, and leaving the game. By next year its only logical most of the aby burners will be done and leave FFXI to those of us who like the entire game not just part of it and a sense of accomplishment in getting our jobs to 90. Even though this will probably mean more server merges which never seem to go well.
You don't like the entire game, lol

[ReplicaX]

- I would rather spend my time doing Endgame events than spending mass amounts of time leveling.
- There were horrible players in 2003 as there are now. Leeching in Aby doesn't change the fact.
- Key leechers are needed in XP, it takes the job away from 75+ jobs that can kill mobs faster.
- Key leechers consume large amounts of Cruor to trade off for XP. Saves 75+ jobs Cruor for brewing.
- Areas outside of Aby got an XP increase and unlimited FOV, the option is still there.
- Would rather have multiple XP options for different play styles and playtimes Vs more restrictions.

[Kisuke]

I suspect that leeching jobs up in Abyssea is forever going to be a sore spot between two large and vocal camps, the same as chigoe burns / astral burns and to a lesser extent That Third Party Program. I don't think we'll be able to reconcile differences there, and thirteen pages of shouting at each other over it is certainly not going to fix the problem.

From my perspective, this boils down to "Hey Devs, this isn't fair, raise the level requirement" vs "You know what's not fair? Slogging through the old way" - which may be valid, but isn't much of a counterargument to raising the level requirement. Put another way, longwinded illustration argument:

A: "I want to be able to play another job, it would help me enjoy the game more and help out my friends." (Valid)
B: "So level a new job, you obviously have more knowledge and resources than you did the first time." (Valid)
A: "Starting a new job takes too much time. I need to be useful at the endgame, not at level 30. I'd need to spend weeks or even months to take a job all the way to 90 - that's a lot of effort in the name of utility. I'd rather burn it to the top then fill in the blanks." (Valid)
B: "So there's no journey, just destination? You'd rather have a button that says 'make me max levels on all jobs' because specializing in one or two isn't good enough and you don't want to spend any effort? Being able to build a house would be fulfilling and useful, but you don't just buy a degree online and start cutting wood." (Valid)
A: "Video games aren't real life. They're supposed to be fun. Grinding xp for hours isn't fun." (Valid for many people)
B: "You knew what you were getting into when you signed up for an MMO. Effort, Advancement, Actualization." (Valid)

Really both sides have their valid points, and that's not getting into "Endgame is the only game" and "Hey, I -like- leveling" arguments. Just a very complex issue that's really not going to have a victor unless the devs force one on us. They've been getting an earful of it for a long time now, I'd love to hear the opinions of individual members of the development team on the matter.

[Cream_Soda]

They have no valid points, lol they just want to force their way of playstyle on everyone else.

Us: level how you want
Them: Level my way or gtfo

[ReplicaX]

People also complained about the same thing even before Aby.
Mostly 70+
- Bones Parties
- Mana Burns
- Bird Merit Parties

Any level
- AF Burn Parties

At least Aby XP isn't completely restricted to certain jobs and gives ppl the opportunity to level other jobs deemed not XP worthy by the "Community" at whatever point in time.

While I can understand some ppl like the old fashioned way, however the option is still there to do so if you find others with the same interest. As on my server I still see Qufim level syncs all the time.

[suragata]

How about this, if you like being legit, play the nostalgia way, which my LS on Odin is doing.
For those who dont care about the feeling of accomplishment and the sentimental value behind a piece of equipment let them be cheap and scoot through 30-90 with no skills, no spells, and the feeling of "ok im done now what".

Going through rank missions, farming for gear the normal way are just some of the reasons why people think aby just ruins the fun in the game. Its like someone just hit an easy button to get to 90

[Cream_Soda]

Its like someone just hit an easy button to get to 90

Exp'ing was hard?

[Fiarlia]

I've never once said that people shouldn't be leveling the old way if they like it. By all means, get to 90 in whatever manner pleases you.

Just don't start asking for restrictions on the ways you -don't- like exp'ing, since there are likely some that like it that way. I like my leeching, thanks. And I don't do it with idiots, my LS does LS only leech runs on Sundays, only three of us are actually killing any of the mobs, everyone else is getting free exp, and we rotate each week. So we're not helping the derps of Vana'diel get to level 90, unlike all the pickup groups.

[ReplicaX]

my LS does LS only leech runs on Sundays

The much preferred method as you are also contributing to your LS with job variety for events. More LSes should be doing this and I don't understand why they shouldn't. It's a win win when properly rotated.

[Solonuke]

Abyssea is the best thing that happened with leveling in this game. If I have to go through Qufim Island for the 9001th time because of people want the level cap in Abyssea to get increased to 70, I think quitting is a very good option in case I want to use a different job.

[Sagian]

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

[Malamasala]

For those who dont care about the feeling of accomplishment and the sentimental value behind a piece of equipment let them be cheap and scoot through 30-90 with no skills, no spells, and the feeling of "ok im done now what".

I'll never understand you people who think the game ends when you get an armor. What background do you come from? Pokemon? As I see it, the fun doesn't even start until you get the armor. It is like how DOOM is boring until you get something else than your hand gun. (My favorite is the shotgun) Or how Final Fantasy 5 is boring until you get your jobs.

I'm sure some people enjoy those early sections of games, but I promise you the majority likes it best further into the games.

[Unaisis]

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

And that's what SE is doing~ they have plans for older battle content~ i believe they are currently going to implement new things for Campaign this upcoming update~ who knows maybe they will even consider Besiege if there is enough demand for it.

[wintermute]

Honestly, who is this hurting? No one. Most Abyssea parties I have been in have only one leech, keywhoring. So it's not like they're taking anything away from the party. Any party that has 4 or 5 leeches I usually just drop and put my flag up again.

[Solonuke]

I really don't have a problem with the method people use to level their jobs. In fact, I think it's fine for jobs where the skills for that job may already be capped, or at least close to capped. If you've got capped skills, then you probably know what you're doing or can figure it out.

The problem is, Abyssea consumes nearly the entire player population, making it almost impossible to find, or even form, a party in a reasonable amount of time. There is no incentive to form a regular party post-level 30. Abyssea has drained and broken every other battle endeavor in the game. Regular parties are dead. Campaign is dead. Besieged is dead, etc.

The level-floor needs to be raised, not to punish people who want to burn a job, but to re-purpose the areas and systems that were in place long before Abyssea made them obsolete.

Higher level parties were already rare before Abyssea came out and spending hours to look after a party didn't seem unusual.

I'm hoping they'll keep revamping the game like they did with Abyssea, so you can be more productive and not get the feeling you have to work yourself up in levels because the game says so. They're changing Campaign and Dynamis, both which I think greatly needs changes since they're both outdated by today's standards. If anything I hope they make TOAU more friendly for either solo or low man parties to level up in those zones.

[Unaisis]

i believe the main reason why there are hardly any low level parties is that there are hardly any low levels anymore T.T.

SE needs to make EXP chains start at Decent challenges. Also make the time required in between chains to keep it going longer~ that way low man parties or even solo can make a decent amount of exp T.T

that's just my thought

[Sagian]

Higher level parties were already rare before Abyssea came out and spending hours to look after a party didn't seem unusual.

I'm hoping they'll keep revamping the game like they did with Abyssea, so you can be more productive and not get the feeling you have to work yourself up in levels because the game says so. They're changing Campaign and Dynamis, both which I think greatly needs changes since they're both outdated by today's standards. If anything I hope they make TOAU more friendly for either solo or low man parties to level up in those zones.

I'm just going to chalk it up to another bit of poor planning by SE. Old content should have been revamped pre-Abyssea. It would not have been difficult to predict what was going to happen when you open areas that give insane XP and equipment.

I'm hoping they continue to try to fix this somehow. I never thought I would say this, but I actually miss Garlaige Citadel, Crawlers Nest, etc.

You know something is wrong when a level 60 doesn't even know where Garlaige Citadel is.

[Lilsanchez]

I disagree. If people want to KH then that's fine. Really it's not going to bother you or anyone else. Only a rare few people actually show their failure. Nothing to worry about. Shouldn't waste your time trying to fix something that doesn't need fixing.

[Solonuke]

I'm just going to chalk it up to another bit of poor planning by SE. Old content should have been revamped pre-Abyssea. It would not have been difficult to predict what was going to happen when you open areas that give insane XP and equipment.

I'm hoping they continue to try to fix this somehow. I never thought I would say this, but I actually miss Garlaige Citadel, Crawlers Nest, etc.

You know something is wrong when a level 60 doesn't even know where Garlaige Citadel is.

I could probably list up a whole amount of people who haven't been in the [S] zones yet, plus people who don't know where White Gate is.

[Kari]

I could probably list up a whole amount of people who haven't been in the [S] zones yet, plus people who don't know where White Gate is.

These people have existed forever.
Pre-Abyssea it was not difficult to find various, gimpy geared people, at level 70+, who hardly know any Exp Camps outside of Qufim/Dunes. Level Sync was gimping idiots far before Abyssea.

[Bahamut_Norm]

They aren't starting now, we've been leeching exp for years with chigoe, and astral burns anyway. Don't pretend free exp didn't exist prior to abyssea.

Fair enough, there will always be leeches. And yes, no one will argue that there's not plenty of 'free exp' as you call it. While I doubt you will, I beseech you to examine the number of people actually doing it and reconsider your position. The problem I and others have with abyssea leeching is not that it's possible, but that it's so trivial to do. Unless you've got some linkshell full of summoners, it's not exactly easy to come across 4 of them.

http://oi51.tinypic.com/63w035.jpg

[kaht]

http://oi51.tinypic.com/63w035.jpg

OMG!! Abyssea is OVER 9000!!

[CrystalWeapon]

Easy to see that people don't know what the hell they want. Easy exp! Earned exp! Easy seals! No hard to earn seals! I want to solo! Noooo Game imbalance! *ramble ramble ramble* :P

Cest la vie (that's life), some like the hard way others like to take the easy way. Personally I like the hard way, got maats pre smn burns and abyssea (yes I want a cookie), but I can see why people would want to take the easy way. They should however have the common sense to solo their skills / buy spells afterwards so they aren't lv 90 while lv 10 skill in their main hand weapon etc. :P

Raising the level cap may seem like it would fix the no gear on the ah, gimp players and what not, but sadly the reality is, if they took this away all they would do would be a shift to smn burning lv sync'ing to fast camps etc. It would sadly solve nothing. If a player is going to be lazy, level up fast, and play with gimp ass skills; they're going to do it regardless of what enforcements you put in place.

I agree players should know the basics of their job and actually play through rather than level up their locksmithing skills, but you can't enforce your ways on another player. In the end they'll keep playing how they want :P

[Sama]

FFXI + Aby = Overnight Lvl90 n00b FTW

[Lilsanchez]

Hey that's life, aaand overtime that Lv90 newb will learn to play his/her job. They arnt going to bother you or ruin your gameplay. Most people have "common sense". I think this is a matter of jealousy... Why else would people waste their time getting angry over people who are playing their job up just fine.

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

[Madmax]

If someone has a burned job and they didn't bother skilling up along the way you'll know. And you won't party with them again. Who care's about the 30 cap. It's a dead issue. A smart player will burn a job, then spend hours upon hours capping their weapon and magic skills. When you see a 90 BLM that cant land a nuke on a level 60 mob dump em and get a skilled BLM. Big deal.

[Dubberrucky]

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

WRONG or it wouldn't even be a debate

[Dubberrucky]

Leeching is just as cheep a tactic as buying gil in my opinion. Jealousy is not a factor here regardless of what people in support of leeching think. Why would I be jealous of someone who rushed any game they paid their hard earned money for just to suck at the job they leeched? No, its silly to me but their choice and if aby level requirements are raised those silly people who do not want to play the first half of the game will just go back to smn burns for more exp than before thanks to updates so whats the problem? And yes despite what you may think leeched jobs more likely than not suck even on otherwise good players with very few exceptions. Several of even my friends who I used to be able to count on to be up to par now have worthless jobs thanks to feeling forced to aby burn or solo since a limited amount of people seek after 30. Aby leeching may not be the place it began but it definitely spread the problem like wildfire, at least on my server where smn burns were not common until our server merge last year.

[Cream_Soda]

Leeching is just as cheep a tactic as buying gil in my opinion.

You know what they say about opinions.

[Dubberrucky]

You know what they say about opinions.

That this thread is all opinion just like any other :P

[Cream_Soda]

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

[Dubberrucky]

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

Stretch much to prove a point that our opinions differ? lol but nice to see you again I hope you will bring me more laughable opinions today to amuse me :)

[Aliekber]

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

[Nightstrike]

Expecting people to fight a bunch of robber crabs, colibri, etc. is as cheap as buying gil in my opinion!

and in my opinion that make's you lazy. lol
I have all 20 job's unlocked, the lvl range is vast, 30-78. And i enjoy leveling them the good'ol way. My drg is lv78, and i didn't use abyssea to level it, that was through party's and soloing. Iv been in 3 abyssea party's, only for merit's on my drg, and i can say this... it wasn't fun, it was boring. My major and really only problem with abyssea is the fact that it's taking away from party's else where in the game. I like working hard and keeping my skills caped to my lvl as much as possible. But I'm also saddened that all these player's are forgoing the rest of the game, FF11's game world is slowly being turned into abyssea only, and the developer's hard work on the other area's is going to waist because of it. And what's worse is that many time's in party's iv had, someone would get tells from people they don't know in abyssea wanting them to come... i mean, first off how do they even know they're real lvl? we're synced under lv30.

[kaht]

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

</ thread >

[Greatguardian]

</ thread >

It would be, but, like, it's just their opinion, man.

[Cream_Soda]

There is one thing I'll give abyssea credit for.

Making the cry babies even louder than they used to be.

[Icestein]

Why are his opinions laughable? You just compared an in game, perfectly legitimate mechanic to rmt. Those two things aren't really similar. I'd say it's fairly laughable to compare them. I've leeched jobs. I've had fun playing them. I took the time to find and get decent gear for them, then took even more time skilling any necessary weapon before I even thought about using them.

Yet there are people who have leveled entirely legitimately who wear full teal, can't play their jobs and are frankly appalling at the game.

Bad players will always exist. I'm not one for being stuck in a qufim island until 55, then being stuck on Colibri til 70. Prior to contrary belief hitting a ws macro every time my TP reaches 100% isn't teaching me a whole lot about my job.

[Nightstrike]

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

I wouldn't quite call it game yet...
and i quote: Characters must be level 30 or above in order to undertake the quests of the battle add-on. Battles, however, are designed to pose a challenge to characters level 75 or higher.

So, if my understanding of abyssea's experience is correct, if not, then blame the people that explained it to me. lol
You gain experience from the monster's if you are level 61+ and if you under only from the chests, so all they have to do is block the experience gain from the chest's to a restricted level, say 70+. Even if the what i understand about the experience is wrong, my point here is still valid, if they do that, they won't be in any legal issue's because they did not promise experience.

[Aliekber]

I wouldn't quite call it game yet...
and i quote: Characters must be level 30 or above in order to undertake the quests of the battle add-on. Battles, however, are designed to pose a challenge to characters level 75 or higher.

So, if my understanding of abyssea's experience is correct, if not, then blame the people that explained it to me. lol
You gain experience from the monster's if you are level 61+ and if you under only from the chests, so all they have to do is block the experience gain from the chest's to a restricted level, say 70+. Even if the what i understand about the experience is wrong, my point here is still valid, if they do that, they won't be in any legal issue's because they did not promise experience.

Maybe you're not from America, in which case not knowing is understandable, but Americans will still sue. They might even still win if SE doesn't pony up enough to strongarm the court into silence. And SE won't want to pay the money required to defend themselves in court because a small portion of their subscribers want them to risk it.

It makes zero business sense. It's not going to happen.

[Nightstrike]

No, i am, and i also know how many stupid people try and sue for stupid thing's they have no footing on, and those case's get tossed out almost instantly.

[Unaisis]

"Waaaaaaaah!!!!! WAaaaaaaaaaaah!!!!! Cry Some More!!!!"

Heavy
Team Fortress 2

[rog]

I'm still not sure why so many people think that exping at 1-74 teaches people so much. Often times the game is played entirely different after 75, and anything you learned prior to that will just reinforce bad habits. This is particularly true for jobs like rdm, blm, smn, pld, etc. And even then, ffxi is NOT a hard game. Anyone can easily learn how to play a job well within a day or two, and within a week to a month can be an expert.


You're still going for that 100k post count?I dunno how practical that would be on a forum where deleted posts don't count towards your post count (i've already had 100+ posts deleted), but sure.

[Solonuke]

It's funny to see people leaving parties if there are too many leechers in a party because of if one person has good atmas, that person will be doing doing half of the damage caused by the entire alliance because of a lot of people still haven't heard about atmas yet.

Hell you'd probably heal a lot better with a 50 WHM with 3 atmas than a 75 WHM with none.

[Sama]

Besides I think everyones here has burned a job up once or more.

Wow wow wow not me! Not the ones I know too.

[rog]

Hell you'd probably heal a lot better with a 50 WHM with 3 atmas than a 75 WHM with none.
I healed more on 50 blm than level 80+ whms were when i "leeched' it up back during scars, simply because i had 15/tic refresh from atmas, and they had none. While they were frequently resting because they couldn't keep, i literally couldn't use up my mp even if i wanted to, and was limited only by cure 3's recast.

[Sama]

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.


This is exactly I've been trying to say. Abyssea is just a marketing strategy before the end of FFXI. The way they designed the aby zones including emp wpn, armor, xp and others are way off balance.

This is no longer a gamers game, it's changing to a 2-hour game for all everyone much like WoW.

[Greatguardian]

This is exactly I've been trying to say. Abyssea is just a marketing strategy before the end of FFXI. The way they designed the aby zones including emp wpn, armor, xp and others are way off balance.

This is no longer a gamers game, it's changing to a 2-hour game for all everyone much like WoW.

Abyssea is interim content, and it is over with at level 90. This is not even "Endgame". It is casual content for casual players once they hit level 99. I highly doubt there is not a completely separate Endgame system being developed for the level 99 cap.

Empyrean Weapons are also nowhere near complete. The 50/50/75 trials inside Abyssea are just the next tier up from the 4/4/6 VNM trials. It's just a pattern utilizing the next step up in the NM system. Dragua was not meant to be the final trial for my Verethragna.

[Dubberrucky]

I healed more on 50 blm than level 80+ whms were when i "leeched' it up back during scars, simply because i had 15/tic refresh from atmas, and they had none. While they were frequently resting because they couldn't keep, i literally couldn't use up my mp even if i wanted to, and was limited only by cure 3's recast.

When you are able to contribute to a party that is not leeching which is why it was suggested earlier and agreed with by several of the anti-leech people that level 50 would be a more fair compromise since many support and healer jobs can contribute at this level.

[Kagato]

At the end of the day, SE's Abyssea sales webpage (and the description text in POL when you agree to terms to buy Abyssea) clearly states that level 30s can participate in Abyssea. Advertising that level 30s can enter and then increasing the level minimum after people have paid for the product (which we all have done) is a classic Bait and Switch. If they did that, they'd be legally exposed to truth-in-advertising lawsuits, not to mention I doubt it would take long for a breach-of-contract class action suit to form. And that's just in the US.

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex8/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex9/index.html

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/addon/ex10/index.html

Game. Set. Match.

Now if only that pesky TOS claiming the game can and will change at any time without warning wasn't in effect. You know, the one we all agreed to when playing this game? Yeah, that little thing.

They could make Abyssea level requirement be 90 and can legally get away with it just because of their TOS.

[Dubberrucky]

Now if only that pesky TOS claiming the game can and will change at any time without warning wasn't in effect. You know, the one we all agreed to when playing this game? Yeah, that little thing.

They could make Abyssea level requirement be 90 and can legally get away with it just because of their TOS.

True, this is both scary and a relief since they can change things that aren't benefiting the player base as well as even things we like at the drop of a hat

[Icestein]

When you are able to contribute to a party that is not leeching which is why it was suggested earlier and agreed with by several of the anti-leech people that level 50 would be a more fair compromise since many support and healer jobs can contribute at this level.

Why can't opening chests be considered contributing? You are expending cruor and helping the party.

[Dubberrucky]

because normal party members can easily do this as well as still contribute

[Greatguardian]

Not if the party is any good, or rather has any good player with them. I one shot most IT EXP mobs with a single WS, so no I'd rather not spend time digging through chests when I could be slaughtering monsters. Even shoving this duty onto the mages can be problematic, as it leaves them unable to properly respond to situations that require immediate attention or to properly do their jobs in general.

[Icestein]

Except they, perhaps, don't wish to strain themselves while also contributing damage. They may also not want to expend cruor. Clearly there's a niche for it otherwise parties wouldn't opt for one.

I don't even see why it's a problem. Let people play the way they want. You want more classic parties? Make them, nothing is stopping you. You're delerious if you think the state of partying will suddenly become exponentially better if we remove leeching. People will go back to Astral flows (also much contested, but never stopped by SE) and very few people will level a new job.

[Kuishen]

Why is this thread still open? Idea was stupid to begin with, and it's not going to happen. End of discussion.

[Dubberrucky]

A key macro takes less than 1 second to hit so if that is too taxing to add to any job then your DD is probably afk anyway. And just as you don't see why leeching is a problem I do not see the need for it to ruin my game experiences either another matter of opinion. Your opinion wont stop me from trying and mine wont stop anyone from trying to find any loophole not to do any work in the game. Bottom line there are people out there that are sick of arriving to a party to find out that it is a waste of time with 5or more leeches in it. There are leechless aby parties out there that and they do exceptionally well so there is still hope in the world they are just rare.

[rog]

Not if the party is any good, or rather has any good player with them. I one shot most IT EXP mobs with a single WS, so no I'd rather not spend time digging through chests when I could be slaughtering monsters. Even shoving this duty onto the mages can be problematic, as it leaves them unable to properly respond to situations that require immediate attention or to properly do their jobs in general.
/item "forbidden key" <stnpc>

[Jesterking]

I play the game to play the game, not to sit in slow exp parties for hours on end. If I have the opportunity to leech a job to cap, I'm going to take it. Why? because I'm at the point where I actually want to get stuff for myself rather then doing the same old grind. So if I can leech my WHM up to cap and then duo a crap ton of NMs for +2 items with a friend, hell yes I'm going to take it. You guys need to stop crying. I don't want to play the game mediocre anymore, with 5 years of playing under my belt I'm far past that point. Versatility is key in this game now and Abyssea offers that with it's leveling/leeching system. The game has developed into 90% lowman, so having mulitple jobs to offer is going to benefit everyone more then an attitude about how leeching has negative effects. I will concede to the point that people who leech jobs and then don't skill up are hurting everyone they're with, but you have the option to not run with them. Build something around the other jobs they have instead of gimping the party, because I'n sure they have at least one job that isn't gimped skill wise.

There are so many damn ways to play this game. Stop crying about how the way you don't like or aren't good at is wrong. It's ridiculous. Somebody has to open chests, and at the rate that mobs get killed in my parties, it's a fulltime job. So someone leeching isn't hurting the exp rate. If that key person was killing as well as keys then we'd lose chests or mobs would die slower. Just play how you want and stop putting a damper on the game for the rest of us who enjoy the system.

[Eric]

Why is this thread still open? Idea was stupid to begin with, and it's not going to happen. End of discussion.

Just like people are usually more willing to take the easy path, people are also very reluctant to any sorts of change. SE could implement a change that everyone has been asking for, and you will still have a loud group of people complaining... because people don't like change.

So I'm just going to agree that the minimum level allowed in abyssea is fine, because obviously the game hasn't fallen apart in the half-year that it's been out, and it doesn't seem to be heading that way.

[Greatguardian]

/item "forbidden key" <stnpc>

I have that bound to a key, personally :( I was speaking in reference to the lowest common denominator.

Edit: @ Dubber, any single good player can have a party comprised of themselves and 17 leeches and really not give a hoot at all. Really. Mobs are not hard. If there isn't a single good player among the 13 non-leeches, including yourself, then I dare say that's the problem.

[svengalis]

As much as I hate leeches I don't think they should do this. It is way to hard to find a tank past 30 to get decent exp.

[Fiarlia]

As much as I hate leeches I don't think they should do this. It is way to hard to find a tank past 30 to get decent exp.

People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o

[Kuishen]

People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o

I admit, I rofl'd a bit.

[rog]

People still think they need tanks for exp? O.o
And some will until the game dies -.-

[Malamasala]

I'm sure people still think only PLD and NIN are tanks.

[Juxtaposition]

Wow, lots of butt hurt people in this thread over fast exp. Fact is SE knew exactly how their abyssea XP system would work because they created and tailored it to their liking. They could have easily kept bird camps competitive exp spots by making abyssea mob XP cap at 200-300. In addition, there is literally ZERO content for level 30s to do inside abyssea, making it even MORE apparent that SE intended for there to be leeches.

In short, continue to cry, for your tears sustain SE overlords.

[rog]

Wow, lots of butt hurt people in this thread over fast exp. Fact is SE knew exactly how their abyssea XP system would work because they created and tailored it to their liking. They could have easily kept bird camps competitive exp spots by making abyssea mob XP cap at 200-300. In addition, there is literally ZERO content for level 30s to do inside abyssea, making it even MORE apparent that SE intended for there to be leeches.

In short, continue to cry, for your tears sustain SE overlords.Quests can be done at level 30.

[Renesmay]

I dont mind the new way but as a vet player I miss how things where at time before abyssea. I tend to stay away from the area until im around lvl 60+ so I can get to know my job and e able to level my skills while i level. Players who do level from 30 on up with a new job frankly I hate partying with them or doing things because they have no idea how to play their job correctly and if they do then they tend to have zero skill to go with it. Its also irritating when someone busts there butt to level a job and get to know how to play it skill it etc. lets say thf or dnc for example and a person comes through who lvled it to 90 within 2 days get more rewards then the person who truely loves and knows the jobs. Frankly I agree that the level does need to increase regarding abyssea entrence.

[Avina]

Quests can be done at level 30.

Yeah but, for what? Seals and whatnot for gear that's level 80+? Let's face it, Abyssea is a 70+ zone meant for 70+ players. I'm not saying it'd be a good idea for them to reduce the level cap now, but it's hard to argue that there is much of a point to a level 30 being there other than to stand around and to leech exp. You can make the argument that they would make a good candidate for someone to pop chests, but honestly when I look to Abyssea pty and we need someone to pop chests I'd rather get someone who is 70+ and has the option of being otherwise useful than someone taking the fast route.

And I'm not saying the fast route is bad, but exp is pretty damn fast now outside of Abyssea, and you can nail some good skill-ups along the way. Taking the Abyssea burning route though you really need to be on top of your game: I've seen players getting their jobs burned and sure they know the strategy behind the job but it just isn't as automatic for them because they don't have the experience playing the job for so long. One of the positive things about grinding is that it kinda cements that stuff into you, and things come to you quickly and without having to think as much. The skill I worry about someone losing when they Abyssea burn a job isn't even the combat skills or their magic skills, but the skill of knowing how to play the job. I'll be the first to say that there are a lot of people who can learn the job fast, but there are plenty who can't.

But honestly what bothers me most about Abyssea burning is that it accelerates the population decline of the game. My LS is very newbie friendly and we bring new people in all the time but its very hard to get them into Abyssea groups and they usually end up quitting. I know people will snark and say that new people aren't joining this game, but there are many who are, but you never see them because there isn't a game infrastructure to reliably get them to the upper levels. Very few parties, no cruor so they can't get invited to Abyssea leech, and no gear for them to buy on the AH makes this game not quite worth it to push through, and no new people coming in pretty much ensures a perpetual population decline.

[rog]

Yeah but, for what? Seals and whatnot for gear that's level 80+?
Sure, why not? Or maybe to gain cruor, so they can afford some abyssites, maps, and confluxes when they get up to 75+.

[Dubberrucky]

But honestly what bothers me most about Abyssea burning is that it accelerates the population decline of the game. My LS is very newbie friendly and we bring new people in all the time but its very hard to get them into Abyssea groups and they usually end up quitting. I know people will snark and say that new people aren't joining this game, but there are many who are, but you never see them because there isn't a game infrastructure to reliably get them to the upper levels. Very few parties, no cruor so they can't get invited to Abyssea leech, and no gear for them to buy on the AH makes this game not quite worth it to push through, and no new people coming in pretty much ensures a perpetual population decline.

True strike, as well do not forget that the same applies to the people coming back to the game after a while and there are a lot of them coming back too being quite frustrated with their return.

[Cream_Soda]

Lol so now you guys are complaining about people who can't leech? Make up your minds.

[Dubberrucky]

Lol so now you guys are complaining about people who can't leech? Make up your minds.

On the contrary its that they have very limited options thanks to leeching its solo or be just as bad as the other horrible players that get kicked from partys.

[Masekase]

They started by increasing exp in old areas. Now just add exp chests and it will push people to lower areas too. I do agree that abyssea should be 70+ leeching is not the way forward.

[Cream_Soda]

27 ppl in qufim on my server, 31 in valk dunes, 11 in Yuhtunga Jungle and 2 pts in east ronf s

Very limited options? Exaggerate much?

[Greatguardian]

27 ppl in qufim on my server, 31 in valk dunes, 11 in Yuhtunga Jungle and 2 pts in east ronf s

Very limited options? Exaggerate much?

That's more parties than I was seeing on Cerberus in 2009.

[Avina]

Lol so now you guys are complaining about people who can't leech? Make up your minds.

Pretty positive that was my first post so I am not quite sure where the 'make up your mind' came from. But since you are being such a troll about it, I don't think it should be too difficult of a concept to grasp that Abyssea burns can make some bad players AND also make it very difficult for new players to get going. The two are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the situation is better on your server and if so I am gladsince mine is in line for a world merger.

[Cream_Soda]

Pretty positive that was my first post so I am not quite sure where the 'make up your mind' came from.

Gonna stop you right there. I wasn't even talking to you.

[Unaisis]

The amount of stupidity in this thread continues to grow with each page.

EDIT: If you want to exp the old way, shut the fuck up and do it. The old way sucks, hence why nobody wants to do it. Go campaign if you hate abyssea, nobody is stopping you.

Very much indeed so~

[Alhanelem]

If you don't like someone for leeching, then don't play with them. Simple as that. Leave the people who choose to do it alone.

/thread.

[Dubberrucky]

Gonna stop you right there. I wasn't even talking to you.

I assume you were talking to me but you wrote that because I agreed with her so yes you were even though you obviously did not notice. So apparently its a personal issue with someone that will never play with you instead of an issue of differing opinions for you. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Cream_Soda]

I was talking to you, not her and yes, it was because you agreed with her.

By agreeing with her, it went from you complaining about people doing it, to you complaining about people not being able to do it.

So, no, I was in no way shape or form talking to him/her. The post was 100% directed towards you.

It had nothing to do with not noticing. I knew exactly who I was talking to. There was no mistake.

Your position changed and I made note of that.

[Cream_Soda]

So apparently its a personal issue with someone that will never play with you instead of an issue of differing opinions for you.

Also false, while your skill wasn't noteworthy enough to remember among the mass number of people I've partied or done random things with, your name does stick out. We've done something together before. You're on my server.

[Dubberrucky]

I was talking to you, not her and yes, it was because you agreed with her.

By agreeing with her, it went from you complaining about people doing it, to you complaining about people not being able to do it.

So, no, I was in no way shape or form talking to him/her. The post was 100% directed towards you.

It had nothing to do with not noticing. I knew exactly who I was talking to. There was no mistake.

Your position changed and I made note of that.

Wrong again I did not change my point in the least, yet again you miss the point at all. It affects them in a negitive way not "ooooh yeah they should totally be able to do it". If they burn they end up like crap and you are telling them to burn so they can have a worthless 90 that will get kicked from any decent party so honestly read before you respond.

[Charismatic]

27 ppl in qufim on my server, 31 in valk dunes, 11 in Yuhtunga Jungle and 2 pts in east ronf s

Very limited options? Exaggerate much?

Well, to be fair... you have to account for the fact that some of those people in qufim and valkurm are just idling for or after having finished abyssea related things. Unless you took levels into account when pulling those numbers, then ignore this post.

There's people out there leveling, sure... but it's only a handful. Makes it tough for people like the OP, but hey... what can you do about it, right? Whining sure isn't gonna help, I know that much.

[Greatguardian]

[Dubberrucky is] on my server.

I'm so sorry.

[Cream_Soda]

If they burn they end up like crap
Again wrong.

1. Burning =/= crap.

2. Killing [insert mob here] for 1000 hours =/= good.


3. Research your job and learn the mechanics behind the game and be able to apply them = good.

3 is independent of 1 and 2

[Dubberrucky]

Sorry I don't remember you at all but maybe you use a different name on the forums. Typically I would simply leave a party with viewpoints like yours. You are just not the type of person I prefer to play with.

[Cream_Soda]

omg you party in abyssea?!?!

[Dubberrucky]

omg you party in abyssea?!?!

Does this refer to me? Well if it does yes I do. I actually like Abyssea a lot just not what having the entrance level set so retarded low has done to the game I loved. Especially when they have already increased the exp you get outside its silly to me to have it remain that low.

[Cream_Soda]

Increased exp outside just gives them more options. It doesn't mean it should be the only option.

There's diff tiers of leeching. The ones willing to work for it and the ones who are 100% lazy.

The people who make their own pts will still be fine.

The ones who /shout "{Key} {Master} {Do you need it?}" and never get a pt because they're too lazy to get their own can now flag up and hope someone will invite them because they're certainly not going to be making their own pts outside either, lol.

Reminds me of back in the day
"omg I've had my flag up for 4 hrs and not gotten an invite"

"Well have you tried to make a pt"

"no, I don't like being leader"

[Dubberrucky]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XI FORUM Guidelines (http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1).]

Please do not try to pass your opinion off as fact. I have never represented anything I said as fact merely opinion and it is my right as well as yours to do so. His viewpoint was what he posted and my choice not to play with certain types of people are facts. The only FACT in your post is an insinuated one that "I, Dubberrucky think aby burned jobs are garbage" that is a fact.

[Dubberrucky]

Ok here's what I want you to do. Go solo a job from 1 to 75. After you do that you might have some credibility, until then, shut the fuck up. It's done nothing to the game aside from allow people to level the jobs they've wanted to in a more efficient manner.

NP already done that twice BLM and BST and even if I had not I still would not shut up simply because someone only wants one viewpoint to be heard.

[Cream_Soda]

Well it is true. Burning doesn't make you bad at the job. Being a bad player makes you bad at the job.

[Kuishen]

Except what I am stating is indeed a fact. Skill level has NOTHING to do with how you get your job to cap.

The fact that you think it does only reveals that you know nothing about the game and how it works.

Done posting in this thread, was stupid in the first place and the fact that it's 23 pages long is a testament to why these forums are a horrible idea.

EDIT: So based on your reasoning, you were awesome at BST and BLM by the time you hit 75? I have extreme doubts of that based on the level of intelligence represented in your posts.

[Cream_Soda]

I think what's being misunderstood here is that players who don't skill up and gear properly after burning a job is someone who would have been bad at the job anyways, even if they leveled "regularly".

What abyssea burning does is weed those players out more quickly.

[Dubberrucky]

I think what's being misunderstood here is that players who don't skill up and gear properly after burning a job is someone who would have been bad at the job anyways, even if they leveled "regularly".

What abyssea burning does is weed those players out more quickly.

You may actually have a point there even though I do not agree with it with the sheer numbers of lazy players who have come out of the woodwork since aby release but then again that's because there is no way to prove that at the current time.

[Cream_Soda]

They've always been there.

Depending on the server, 6-8/10 of the players on the server (when you count all players) are lazy and underskilled at their jobs.

Now of those 6-8, roughly half of them are going to be really horrible and the other half is what you'd call your average player. Who has a basic grasp of their job, and not bad at it, but also not what you'd call "good". (like the whm who doesn't pay attention and you have to ask for debuffs vs the one who sees it in the log and has the -na spell half way casted by the time the mob even finishes readying the attack.)

[Kuishen]

You may actually have a point there even though I do not agree with it with the sheer numbers of lazy players who have come out of the woodwork since aby release but then again that's because there is no way to prove that at the current time.

/facepalm.jpg

[Dubberrucky]

Except what I am stating is indeed a fact. Skill level has NOTHING to do with how you get your job to cap.

The fact that you think it does only reveals that you know nothing about the game and how it works.

Done posting in this thread, was stupid in the first place and the fact that it's 23 pages long is a testament to why these forums are a horrible idea.

EDIT: So based on your reasoning, you were awesome at BST and BLM by the time you hit 75? I have extreme doubts of that based on the level of intelligence represented in your posts.

Nothing that is opinion is fact other than stating that this is someones opinion. Regarding your opinion of a matter as a fact deflects from any credibility you may have had at some point. To answer your edit yes and no I am a good well rounded both BST and BLM now but after I attained 75 I was great at solo but needed to learn how to work with a party. Both in my opinion are needed in order to be a good player keywhoreing gives you neither experience, so to me it is actually quite inefficient thanks to the new updates.

[Linh]

I've always thought that FF11 only has one level, "The Max". Which for me was 75. All the cool bosses and fights and stories etc mostly happen at 75.

What do you do before 75? Kill nameless mobs.

Here's a crazy idea: make the entire leveling process *fun* and *inventive*. We're Adventurers right? Then why not just populate the whole world with Dynamic Events like oh say....a village is under attack, an NPC comes running out crying while carrying her child in her arms while being chased by a huge NM.

You go in and bash that NMs head in and get exp for the event, bam. Too low level to fight the NM? Why not try casting Water on that burning house to put out the flames? Cant cast magic? Why not just go inside to beat up the low level Bombs about to eat the terrified citizen inside?

That's bloody Adventuring. Not sitting at one camp while waiting for a helpless pink bird to come along so you can kill it.

[Dubberrucky]

They've always been there.

Depending on the server, 6-8/10 of the players on the server (when you count all players) are lazy and underskilled at their jobs.

Now of those 6-8, roughly half of them are going to be really horrible and the other half is what you'd call your average player. Who has a basic grasp of their job, and not bad at it, but also not what you'd call "good". (like the whm who doesn't pay attention and you have to ask for debuffs vs the one who sees it in the log and has the -na spell half way casted by the time the mob even finishes readying the attack.)

Just to point out since you are currently on Sylph this was not accurate ratios here 2 years ago before the server merge when astral burning became something that happened here on a frequent basis. If this shift was due to the merge and habits that came over with it or the bi product of level sync the world will never truly know but more than likely a combination of both. In short there has been a direct correlation to the number of junk players found in partys to the availability of leaching in some fashion.

[Dubberrucky]

I've always thought that FF11 only has one level, "The Max". Which for me was 75. All the cool bosses and fights and stories etc mostly happen at 75.

What do you do before 75? Kill nameless mobs.

Here's a crazy idea: make the entire leveling process *fun* and *inventive*. We're Adventurers right? Then why not just populate the whole world with Dynamic Events like oh say....a village is under attack, an NPC comes running out crying while carrying her child in her arms while being chased by a huge NM.

You go in and bash that NMs head in and get exp for the event, bam. Too low level to fight the NM? Why not try casting Water on that burning house to put out the flames? Cant cast magic? Why not just go inside to beat up the low level Bombs about to eat the terrified citizen inside?

That's bloody Adventuring. Not sitting at one camp while waiting for a helpless pink bird to come along so you can kill it.

You make a very good point. I personally like the entire game not just endgame but they always could make leveling more fun with new ideas.

[Cream_Soda]

Dubber, you enjoy Dynamis, Walk of Echoes, Limbus, Sky, Sea, Fishing, Chocobo Digging, that stupid mini game for 85-90, crafting, harvesting, logging, etc?

The ENTIRE game? I'm sure there's something in the game you don't like to do.


Edit: Entire includes BALLISTA! (rawr)

[Dubberrucky]

Dubber, you enjoy Dynamis, Walk of Echoes, Limbus, Sky, Sea, Fishing, Chocobo Digging, that stupid mini game for 85-90, crafting, harvesting, logging, etc?

The ENTIRE game? I'm sure there's something in the game you don't like to do.


Edit: Entire includes BALLISTA! (rawr)

Yes, actually I do enjoy it. With a group of friends I am willing and happy to do all the events the game has to offer and I actually like to level as well. I never leave my friends out and go after the end game stuff on my own though I am not really too interested in getting it. If I was not having fun I would not play. Though I am not sure what you are referring to by stupid mini game. On a side note I have never tried ballista they never seem to get off the ground but I do enjoy a good brenner greatly.

[Cream_Soda]

Well, seeing as things like harvesting is counter productive with multiple people, it's not really something you'd go out and do with a group of friends.

You enjoy these types of things as well?

[Dubberrucky]

Well, seeing as things like harvesting is counter productive with multiple people, it's not really something you'd go out and do with a group of friends.

You enjoy these types of things as well?

Yes its quite relaxing when I do not feel like socializing or fighting. These are also great times to craft and fish.

[Cream_Soda]

Well, I assure you, you're in the vast minority, if you like every single aspect of the game and enjoy doing every thing (especially trial of magians).

For the vast majority, there are things people will like and things people will not like.

Well, since you like everything, do you like standing in abyssea and opening chests for hours on end to gain levels?

Edit: The last question is a part of the game, so if your answer is no, then you don't enjoy the entire game. If your answer is yes, let others enjoy it as well.

[Avina]

Ok here's what I want you to do. Go solo a job from 1 to 75. After you do that you might have some credibility, until then, shut the fuck up. It's done nothing to the game aside from allow people to level the jobs they've wanted to in a more efficient manner.

Dude, chill out. It's a video game forum and you are taking this stuff way too personally.

[Avina]

The last question is a part of the game, so if your answer is no, then you don't enjoy the entire game. If your answer is yes, let others enjoy it as well.

I actually agree with this statement, but I will say, it does suck a lot to want to do things in this game and be unable to. And maybe that means that players who like the old things are just meant to die out, I don't know.

[Dubberrucky]

Well, I assure you, you're in the vast minority, if you like every single aspect of the game and enjoy doing every thing (especially trial of magians).

For the vast majority, there are things people will like and things people will not like.

Well, since you like everything, do you like standing in abyssea and opening chests for hours on end to gain levels?

I know I am in the minority in the aspect of actually enjoying the entire game I never said otherwise. As far as standing around opening chests I have never and will never do that but not one person in this forum or in the game that I heard has ever said they actually enjoy doing that. The same can not be said for anything else on the list. Things about leveling need to change is the bottom line as someone brought up earlier maybe people wouldn't cry about not being able to leech an entire job if it was made fun for them to level it. If SE continues on the path of taking all effort from the game who will really want to play down the road? Even for an average player the trials and AF3 only take a few days to complete with less than 6 people if you worked on them consistently. For arguments sake lets say it takes 2 days to aby burn a job then 5 days to complete AF3 if focused. That is only a week per job. 20 weeks total given they do it for 20 jobs. Now add in the relatively short time it takes for weapon trials you may stretch that to 30 weeks. I personally have already seen people leave the game because of this who have been around for years and achieved these goals. Rushing to the end like there is one is simply closure it does not help the game or the player unless you are simply looking for an end for an excuse to get bored and quit.

[Cream_Soda]

As far as standing around opening chests I have never and will never do that but not one person in this forum or in the game that I heard has ever said they actually enjoy doing that.Whether other people enjoy it or not, if you do not, then your claims of enjoying the entire game are false. As for me, I enjoyed doing chests when I leveled Corsair (only job I leveled prior to 75 in abysssea)


I know I am in the minority in the aspect of actually enjoying the entire game

You're not in that minority because you do not enjoy the entire game.

[Seis]

I don't know about you, but I'd be much more inclined to return to a game I remember as being fun, than one that I remember as being monotonous and afraid to let people have fun for the sake of extending the lifetime of old content.

[Avina]

You're not in that minority because you do not enjoy the entire game.

You are just kinda picking at words dude, lol. I think it's clear that she just wishes the rest of the game got some more love from the player base is all.

[Cream_Soda]

You are just kinda picking at words dude, lol. I think it's clear that she just wishes the rest of the game got some more love from the player base is all.
Well she should say that then instead of some bs lie that she enjoys the ENTIRE game.

[Seis]

I like the ENTIRE game too (I just happen to like some parts about as much as the prospect of gouging out my eyes).

[Dubberrucky]

Whether other people enjoy it or not, if you do not, then your claims of enjoying the entire game are false. As for me, I enjoyed doing chests when I leveled Corsair (only job I leveled prior to 75 in abysssea)



You're not in that minority because you do not enjoy the entire game.

OK I will concede to that technicality I enjoy the entire game with the exclusion of leeches and keywhoring. Do you feel better now? By the way since you are the 1st person I have ever seen to say they actually enjoy keywhoreing rather than saying that its boring but fast would that not make you the minority in that respect or is it simply a quick means to an end is why you enjoy it?

[Cream_Soda]

Do you feel better now?It has nothing to do with feeling better. It has to do with everyone has things they like and things they dislike. That was my only point and it just happens that some people dislike leveling in the fashion that you do like.

Hence, letting people choose how they level. You level how you want. I'm not trying to force my way of leveling on you. All I ask for in return is the same notion.


By the way since you are the 1st person I have ever seen to say they actually enjoy keywhoreing rather than saying that its boring but fast would that not make you the minority in that respect or is it simply a quick means to an end is why you enjoy it? Well, I only did it once (cor) and there was a lot of people I knew there, so the time just flew by. I didn't find it to be a boring experience.

Had it not known anyone and actually paid attention to only the boxes, that may or may not have been a different case, but i can't say, because that was not my situation.

Edit: Where as lving cor 10-30 was such a drag and one of more boring things I've done on this game. 1-10 was actually fun, but I find all jobs 1-10 to be fun, so no surprise there.

[Dubberrucky]

You are just kinda picking at words dude, lol. I think it's clear that she just wishes the rest of the game got some more love from the player base is all.

Lol yeah he has been doing that for 25 pages now against many with a differing opinion. To be honest its just to the point of amusing to me so I keep him going to see what he will try to twist next. Sorry though if it takes it off topic.

[Avina]

Well she should say that then instead of some bs lie that she enjoys the ENTIRE game.

It's not really a lie, I mean, people say that kind of stuff all the time. If a person likes the vast majority of something it becomes tedius to say "I like all of this, except for this, this, this, and this." I'm pretty sure there's a logical fallacy there somewhere but I don't recall it.

But a lie is intended, which I doubt was her intent. I don't think she was intentionally trying to mislead anyone.

[Cream_Soda]

Lol yeah he has been doing that for 25 pages now against many with a differing opinion. At least I value the opinions, don't really care what you do, and don't try to force my way onto others.

While I don't agree with most of your opinions in this thread, I've never said you shouldn't do them and I've never said you should do them the way I do them.

You, on the other hand, are trying to say your way is right over other's ways.

[Cream_Soda]

It's not really a lie, I mean, people say that kind of stuff all the time. If a person likes the vasty majority of something it becomes tedius to say "I like all of this, except for this, this, this, and this." I'm pretty sure there's a logical fallacy there somewhere but I don't recall it.

But a lie is intended, which I doubt was her intent. I don't think she was intentionally trying to mislead anyone.
The same post she said she didn't like key whoring she said she liked the entire game. You don't think that calls for some clarification?

[Avina]

The same post she said she didn't like key whoring she said she liked the entire game. You don't think that calls for some clarification?

When I read it I took it as she liked the content that the game had to offer, but not necessarily some of the player strategies. I didn't say that I felt she had made the most accurate of statements, but definitely not an attempt to lie or mislead people. Like you said, she said right there in the same post she didn't like key whoring, not like she was trying to hide that there were some things about the game she wasn't fond of. But again I took it as her just liking the content that comes inside the box.