Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[RaenRyong]

It seems everyone anti-Abyssea levelling has a serious case of nostalgia. You want the past. We want the future. You want to return the game to its stagnant state, slow and tedious with grinding being the mainstay of the performance. We want the stage continually refined into something far more grandiose, where experience grinding is an ephemeral means to an end, allowing us to enjoy content rapidly.

The relics of the past should be confined to the past. Seek the future and seek progression - by fighting against it, you are actively harming the game.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

This thread has more posts then the german and french forums combined.

[Linh]

Level Sync destroyed the balance you're thinking of, not Abyssea. People only needed 3 sets past Qufim Island (where you could exp naked and be effective); East Ronfaure [S] set, Wajaom Woodlands/Bhaflau 55-65 set, and 75+ set.

Birds are good exp....and Level Sync is a brilliant idea to *make the game more social so people could play with their friends*.

It just so happened that you could also use Level Sync to fight birds as most of your exp prey. So why would people *want* to level on anything else if birds gave such good exp?

I would say that the flamingos are proof that SE wants a faster paced game.

EDIT: Ninja as a tank wasn't part of SE's original intention, but it evolved to be so because of the players.

Likewise, Level Sync wasn't meant to be able to level so easily off pink birds all the damned time, but that's what players used it for!

[Greatguardian]

Birds are good exp....and Level Sync is a brilliant idea to *make the game more social so people could play with their friends*.

It just so happened that you could also use Level Sync to fight birds as most of your exp prey. So why would people *want* to level on anything else if birds gave such good exp?

I would say that the flamingos are proof that SE wants a faster paced game.

EDIT: Ninja as a tank wasn't part of SE's original intention, but it evolved to be so because of the players.

Likewise, Level Sync wasn't meant to be able to level so easily off pink birds all the damned time, but that's what players used it for!

I have no problem with Level sync; I love the feature. I was simply pointing out that the issues Kailea was addressing had very little to do with Abyssea, and more to do with the introduction of level sync.

[Linh]

I have no problem with Level sync; I love the feature. I was simply pointing out that the issues Kailea was addressing had very little to do with Abyssea, and more to do with the introduction of level sync.

And I was agreeing with you.

No Abyssea leeching = LeveL Syncing to birds for exp and won't really need any other gear set.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

I still got parties in other places with level sync, hell I was only in level sync PTs half the time. level sync no where destroyed balance more then Abyssea did.

[Emitremmus]

Indeed I feel that Abyssea has hurt the AH, lower level parties, and nostalgia. However, I think Abyssea in itself is awesome. My post is purely directed at the strangely low level requirement to begin with. I also understand that some people don't want to spend forever leveling a job, but the speed in which you can do so in Abyssea is just insane.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

oh I agree the new content is awesome, just wish they had controlled it better from the start, now they might just have to make a few people angry if/when they fix it. Players are important, but the health of the game is important too, and as long as Abyssea stays the way it is now, that health is not looking so good.

[Maquis]

Don't know if this was mentioned in this thread (116 pages skimming: no thanks, lol)
What if you get 0 xp in Abyssea on jobs you haven't finished shattering stars quest on?
Lets you prove you can handle the job ^^

[Emitremmus]

Don't know if this was mentioned in this thread (116 pages skimming: no thanks, lol)
What if you get 0 xp in Abyssea on jobs you haven't finished shattering stars quest on?
Lets you prove you can handle the job ^^

That's actually a really good idea. Looksie here SE! This guy has some brains.

[Ramsos]

Don't know if this was mentioned in this thread (116 pages skimming: no thanks, lol)
What if you get 0 xp in Abyssea on jobs you haven't finished shattering stars quest on?
Lets you prove you can handle the job ^^

Also known as "raise the level cap in abyssea from 30 to 65". At least thats 5 levels off of the OP, maybe in another 10k posts people will stop crying about leechers and accept it as something SE intended from the very beginning.

[Vivik]

Also known as "raise the level cap in abyssea from 30 to 65". At least thats 5 levels off of the OP, maybe in another 10k posts people will stop crying about leechers and accept it as something SE intended from the very beginning.

Lower it to 1. Problem solved.

[Emitremmus]

Perhaps the level 30 minimum is actually a distraction from all the other things that people were complaining about. Well played.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Lower it to 1. Problem solved.

no not solved, made worse.

[Skybrit]

Do not be affraid. No one can force you to lvl" the old way". It is not possible. The methods and time it takes to lvl a job have changed drastically since I joined the game 6 years ago. (For a recreational player.. I'm not on every day). What used to take months in parties now can be accomplished in a matter of a very few weeks, even without Abyssea. The previous updates have increased exp gained in parties a huge amount. With a exp ring I have reached as much as the 800s and usually between 5-600 per kill in parties. FOV and lvl sync have also changed the lvling for solos, duos and trios. SE is trying hard to revitalize the regular areas and world economy and attempt to extend the life of the game. They see the big picture and have seen many servers begin to die. Hopefully, the world merges and exp changes will keep FFXI going longer as the Abyss additions have failed to reverse the trend.
Abyssea is end game content and has brought some new challenges and fun to the game. I go there when I want to work on my 90's, exp, merit, gear but, its only part of the world SE has created. SE is a business after all and they will go where they need to to increase subscriptions in the game. But, its clear that as Abyssea participation has increased in the smaller servers, it has not helped to reverse the shrinking trend. As a business, SE will make the decision that makes the most financial sense.
There seems to be a critical mass around 500-700 where the majority seems to be playing end game content and others quickly exit the game. I recently left a server where this had happened. There was even a difference of opinion on the world mergers. Some end game players wanted to stay smaller to keep competition down in the zones while people in lower levels wanted the world repopulated to wake up the economy and dead areas. Why do they merge worlds? LOL. Because they are no longer profitable. Hopefully, they will come up with changes that will save the game for us all, because the ones they have made so far, have not done the trick. If a higher lvl cap in Abyss helps SE bring the worlds back to life then do it.. If it means another expansion like COP and the others then I'd like to see that.. but if the game continues to move the way it is now.. time is short for the game.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Do not be affraid. No one can force you to lvl" the old way". It is not possible.True. Leechers leech and complainers complain. These are just the facts of life. The rest of us(The vast majority.), get on with our lives and play the game as intended.

[Detoxy]

no not solved, made worse.

Originally Posted by Vivik
Lower it to 1. Problem solved.

I agree with Vivik lower to lvl 1

[Detoxy]

It seems everyone anti-Abyssea levelling has a serious case of nostalgia. You want the past. We want the future. You want to return the game to its stagnant state, slow and tedious with grinding being the mainstay of the performance. We want the stage continually refined into something far more grandiose, where experience grinding is an ephemeral means to an end, allowing us to enjoy content rapidly.

The relics of the past should be confined to the past. Seek the future and seek progression - by fighting against it, you are actively harming the game.

Well put!!! I agree

[Chiibi]

i dont mind abyssea leeching.. just so long as the person leeching is smart enough to skill up and know how to work in a party/allience.

[Skybrit]

Well put!!! I agree

You can't have the past. The game doesn't play that way anymore.

[Valaris]

if you want dev team to look at this and possibly consider it you might wanna put the dev tag on it. also doing that would discourage trolling on this as well. as they would know the dev team would be looking at it. just a suggestion if you want this to be taken into consideration.

[Chiibi]

if the devs raise the cap... atleast wait till my level 30's are 49+

[Zeitzone]

It seems everyone anti-Abyssea levelling has a serious case of nostalgia. You want the past. We want the future. You want to return the game to its stagnant state, slow and tedious with grinding being the mainstay of the performance. We want the stage continually refined into something far more grandiose, where experience grinding is an ephemeral means to an end, allowing us to enjoy content rapidly.

The relics of the past should be confined to the past. Seek the future and seek progression - by fighting against it, you are actively harming the game.

Leeching is no future, you call us nostalgist, but FFXI was build for grinders, we like it the way it was, and we were the ones made this game big!
You Leechers now come out of your holes and call the dead of this game future!
This game was made to be slow and enjoyable, and not fast leeching with no fun.
Your way isnt future, its the dead of the game.
I think everyone of pro-Abyssea access 30 or lower has a serious self-assurance complex/Inferiority complex.
You are not able to grind and want the game to be a cheaters place, a leechersplace.
Leeching cant be right, wtf how can be leeching right? Think about it, HOW can be LEECHING right???
You cheat by doing nothing for exp, so it cant be right.

[Greatguardian]

There is no Dev tag in service for Abyssea adjustments (aside from seals). The last time someone improperly abused a Dev tag to make an anti-leeching thread, the thread was mod-edited and the tag removed.

Don't encourage bad posting habits. The dev tags only apply to the areas of the game which the Devs specifically request feedback on. If people start tacking them onto everything they want the Devs to see, Bacon Mage may as well get its own Dev tag.

[Ramsos]

Leeching is no future, you call us nostalgist, but FFXI was build for grinders, we like it the way it was, and we were the ones made this game big!
You Leechers now come out of your holes and call the dead of this game future!
This game was made to be slow and enjoyable, and not fast leeching with no fun.
Your way isnt future, its the dead of the game.
I think everyone of pro-Abyssea access 30 or lower has a serious self-assurance complex/Inferiority complex.
You are not able to grind and want the game to be a cheaters place, a leechersplace.
Leeching cant be right, wtf how can be leeching right? Think about it, HOW can be LEECHING right???
You cheat by doing nothing for exp, so it cant be right.

SE created abyssea with lvl 30s able to enter. Who are you to claim that SE didnt intend leeching from the very beginning.

[Tekkenooo]

I quote and agree the title of topic !!!

[HFX7686]

Leeching is no future, you call us nostalgist, but FFXI was build for grinders, we like it the way it was, and we were the ones made this game big!
You Leechers now come out of your holes and call the dead of this game future!
This game was made to be slow and enjoyable, and not fast leeching with no fun.
Your way isnt future, its the dead of the game.
I think everyone of pro-Abyssea access 30 or lower has a serious self-assurance complex/Inferiority complex.
You are not able to grind and want the game to be a cheaters place, a leechersplace.
Leeching cant be right, wtf how can be leeching right? Think about it, HOW can be LEECHING right???
You cheat by doing nothing for exp, so it cant be right.

Leeching is nothing new. My friends and I used to leech jobs at the colibri camp after TOAU came out. A level 30 and up used to get more exp/hour there than a regular party, even with the penalty. After 4-5 jobs to 75 we did not see any point in spending months dragging up new jobs to 75. Plus, it was funny when our party of five (plus leech) would out-pull everyone in the camp and get stares from people when our leech hit levels below 50.

Also, you do not need to leech or party with leechers if you choose not to. At some point you will actually comprehend this.

[Zeitzone]

SE created abyssea with lvl 30s able to enter. Who are you to claim that SE didnt intend leeching from the very beginning.

SE didnt expect that so much ppl turn into Leechers and do nothing else.
SE didnt had a 3 Level cap for years out of fun.
If SE turns this game into a Leechers game then i really lose any hope in SE and give up on FFXI, and im not the only one, so if SE ever made a statement that they want leeching i and some other 10000 players will instantly quit them accounts. And then you can enjoy your happy tree friends leeching game.
But SE can be sure that we will never again touch a game from Square Enix.
Becouse giving uns a grinder game for over 7 years and then turning it into a leechers place whold hurt the feelings of the grinders. Its like taking the game away from us.
And thats nothing we will accept happy.
So SE, i want you to make a statement, eighter you put a raised access to Abyssea level 70 and make the grinders happy.
Or you keep it 30/make it level 1 and make the leechers happy.
Anyways, whatever SE chose they will lose players.
So thats why they keep quiet so long. A directly answer whould make grinders or Leechers angry.
But grinders will not watch any longer without to see eighter one or the other, we want the game to be full grinder game or we leave.

[Zeitzone]

Leeching is nothing new. My friends and I used to leech jobs at the colibri camp after TOAU came out. A level 30 and up used to get more exp/hour there than a regular party, even with the penalty. After 4-5 jobs to 75 we did not see any point in spending months dragging up new jobs to 75. Plus, it was funny when our party of five (plus leech) would out-pull everyone in the camp and get stares from people when our leech hit levels below 50.

Also, you do not need to leech or party with leechers if you choose not to. At some point you will actually comprehend this.

Thats a different way of leeching, its grindleeching. Still someone needs to grind so you can leech.
But at Abyssea noone needs to grind. And the amount of exp is really to much.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

75 is not the original level cap and the game played diferrently back then too.

[HFX7686]

Thats a different way of leeching, its grindleeching. Still someone needs to grind so you can leech.
But at Abyssea noone needs to grind. And the amount of exp is really to much.

One kind of leeching is okay but another is not?

Also, if you had ever leeched at the colibri camp you'd know that it'd only take a few days of partying to get to 75. It's not that much longer than Abyssea.

Finally, when you leech in Abyssea it's not an alliance of 18 people level 30. There are people there doing the stabbing.

[Zeitzone]

One kind of leeching is okay but another is not?

Also, if you had ever leeched at the colibri camp you'd know that it'd only take a few days of partying to get to 75. It's not that much longer than Abyssea.

Finally, when you leech in Abyssea it's not an alliance of 18 people level 30. There are people there doing the stabbing.

The Leeching by Colibry camp is alot slower and is limited by colibris, there was no chance to leech as fast as in Anyssea, not even half as fast, thats why noone is leeching anymore on colibris.

Abyssea is no challenge, not even for the ones who grind, well it is not even grinding, same as dynamis isnt grinding.
And the amount of exp the level 30 char receives is really to much.

An other way to solve the problem is to make the amount of exp in Abyssea level definded, so if its a level 30, minimum exp.

[Chiibi]

i see soo much complaining about leeching.. to be honest... no one really cares. atleast you shouldnt if the people leeching atleast take the time to brush themselves upto the standards required of them.

[Ramsos]

SE didnt expect that so much ppl turn into Leechers and do nothing else.
SE didnt had a 3 Level cap for years out fo fun.
If SE turns this game into a Leechers game then i really lose any hope in SE and give up on FFXI, and im not the only one, so if SE ever made a statement that they want leeching i and some other 10000 players will instantly quit them accounts. And then you can enjoy your happy tree friends leeching game.
But SE can be sure that we will never again touch a game from Square Enix.
Becouse giving uns a grinder game for over 7 years and then turning it into a leechers place whold hurt the feelings of the grinders. Its like taking the game away from us.
And thats nothing we will accept happy.
So SE, i want you to make a statement, eighter you put a raised access to Abyssea level 70 and make the grinders happy.
Or you keep it 30/make it level 1 and make the leechers happy.
Anyways, whatever SE chose they will lose players.
So thats why they keep quiet so long. A directly answer whould make grinders or Leechers angry.
But grinders will not watch any longer without to see eighter one or the other, we want the game to be full grinder game or we leave.

You should start looking for a new game then. Heres multiple reasons why:

1. The vast majority of players dont want to go back to the old pre-lvl sync grind. If you do away with abyssea leeching, you have to do away with level sync, its the only way to make exp "pure". I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet that over 95% of the population would be against going back to the 5k/hr days where it took hours just to find the proper jobs for a pt at your level.

2. Many of said older players will simply not level new jobs, some may even quit since abyssea exp wouldnt exist w/o chest leeches. You will be stuck in the same situation you are in right now. No one will craft low level gear since there is no profit in it.

3. SE is a business. SE caters to the majority of its playerbase. "Grinders" dont experience the vast majority of the game, all they do is exp. If SE catered to the grinders, why would they waste any time fixing stuff like dynamis when grinders wouldnt do it anyway.

4. FFXI is evolving. It has been since ToA. FFXI stopped being a grinding game once level sync was introduced into the game. Abyssea is just the end result of level sync.

Your anger at level sync is misplaced, you blame abyssea for the faults of level sync.

[Zeitzone]

You should start looking for a new game then. Heres multiple reasons why:

1. The vast majority of players dont want to go back to the old pre-lvl sync grind. If you do away with abyssea leeching, you have to do away with level sync, its the only way to make exp "pure". I have no proof, but I'm willing to bet that over 95% of the population would be against going back to the 5k/hr days where it took hours just to find the proper jobs for a pt at your level.

2. Many of said older players will simply not level new jobs, some may even quit since abyssea exp wouldnt exist w/o chest leeches. You will be stuck in the same situation you are in right now. No one will craft low level gear since there is no profit in it.

3. SE is a business. SE caters to the majority of its playerbase. "Grinders" dont experience the vast majority of the game, all they do is exp. If SE catered to the grinders, why would they waste any time fixing stuff like dynamis when grinders wouldnt do it anyway.

4. FFXI is evolving. It has been since ToA. FFXI stopped being a grinding game once level sync was introduced into the game. Abyssea is just the end result of level sync.

Your anger at level sync is misplaced, you blame abyssea for the faults of level sync.

I have no problem with level synch, level synch in normal areas is ok, synching on the lowest level. That doesnt need to be removed.
And no, it arent 95% leechers, i bet its not even 50%. Its more grinders who want FFXI to be the old again.
So you always say grinders arent the majority, why do you lie to yourself, we are more than you think.
And as you say SE is a bussiness cooperation, so they think what them players want, players who played for 7 years, and most of them are grinders, so SE will not harm themselves.
And grinders do Dynamis, just becouse it is not grinding it doesnt meen that we dont do it. We like many ways of experiencing, but not leeching. Dynamis was fun and we could get nice gears there, we did it all the time.

And when you turn back to grinding sure armors will sell better again, becouse you cant grind without a proper gear.
And that makes crafting lucrative. Problem has been the Gil buying for crafting, that decarassed the prices becouse gil buyers didnt care for how much they sell stuff while crafting up, they were only interested in skill 100 to make the best gears and sell those for good prices. Or have them own names on it.

ToAUs level Synch was a level down synch and never harmed the grinding, it just opened the gate for new players, you still had to work same hard for your exp.
So dont mix ToAU in it. ToAU didnt harm the game.
It deffinitely started with Abyssea level 30 access.

[Greatguardian]

The people issuing ultimatums here are the "Raise the cap or we quit" crowd. Right away that should tell you you really aren't going to get squat. I highly doubt anything regarding the Abyssea entry requirements will change at all; neither up nor down.

If you don't like the game the way it is right now, quit. No one's stopping you. No one's going to change the game to make you stay either.

[Ramsos]

And no, it arent 95% leechers, i bet its not even 50%. Its more grinders who want FFXI to be the old again.
So you always say grinders arent the majority, why do you lie to yourself, we are more than you think.
And as you say SE is a bussiness cooperation, so they think what them players want, players who played for 7 years, and most of them are grinders, so SE will not harm themselves.

If this is the case, and there are more people who want to go back to the old way of playing than people who like easy exp, then I dont know what your problem is. If theres really this many, you should have no problem finding parties.

The truth is that you are factually wrong. In your little circle where you only talk to like minded people, you might be right. But we both know that the vast majority of players like the way abyssea is now. It is blatantly obvious, or we wouldnt be having this argument.

You dont consider level sync a problem, do you just close your eyes and refuse to see what is right in front of you? You claim that abyssea killed the low level gear market, this is false. The truth is that since level sync was introduced, the vast majority of people ONLY SYNC TO COLLIBRI. Collibri are not hard to kill, you dont need top of the line gear for them. And even if you did, thats only a select few levels where you need gear. Level sync killed crafting, NOT abyssea, how many times does this need to be posted for people to understand.

I havent even taken smn burning into account, you dont even need gear for that.

[Zeitzone]

The people issuing ultimatums here are the "Raise the cap or we quit" crowd. Right away that should tell you you really aren't going to get squat. I highly doubt anything regarding the Abyssea entry requirements will change at all; neither up nor down.

If you don't like the game the way it is right now, quit. No one's stopping you. No one's going to change the game to make you stay either.

Thats what i am supposing to do if the game doesnt change back to normal, but atm im waiting if SE will finally come back to mind. As i said grinders will leave when Abyssea stays 30 or gets down to 1.

[Greatguardian]

Thats what i am supposing to do if the game doesnt change back to normal, but atm im waiting if SE will finally come back to mind. As i said grinders will leave when Abyssea stays 30 or gets down to 1.

Okay then. I dare say everybody wins.

[Kazen]

As a crafter myself I agree with Ramsos. I made a massive profit on low level HQs until the introduction of Level Sync. I was making millions of gil on a weekly basis from Amemet Mantles+1 alone. After level sync was introduced the gear I crafted no longer sold on AH as it was no longer needed so I stopped making it. I now craft things like gobbie bag items for a modest 50k profit/synth just to pay for my consumables.

In short, stopping abyssea leeching will not and I repeat WILL NOT fix the AH problem you seem to think abyssea caused. I can say this with completely certainty that you have no clue what you're talking about.

[Zeitzone]

If this is the case, and there are more people who want to go back to the old way of playing than people who like easy exp, then I dont know what your problem is. If theres really this many, you should have no problem finding parties.

The truth is that you are factually wrong. In your little circle where you only talk to like minded people, you might be right. But we both know that the vast majority of players like the way abyssea is now. It is blatantly obvious, or we wouldnt be having this argument.

You dont consider level sync a problem, do you just close your eyes and refuse to see what is right in front of you? You claim that abyssea killed the low level gear market, this is false. The truth is that since level sync was introduced, the vast majority of people ONLY SYNC TO COLLIBRI. Collibri are not hard to kill, you dont need top of the line gear for them. And even if you did, thats only a select few levels where you need gear. Level sync killed crafting, NOT abyssea, how many times does this need to be posted for people to understand.

I havent even taken smn burning into account, you dont even need gear for that.

Gosh, do you even remember a Post i wrote before?
I already said i do not habe problems finding partyes.
I just dont want this free leeching in FFXI, becouse it is unfair to grinders who work and put in efforts for them sucesses.
so a grinder has a hard life in the game and is proud on it.
And then a leecher comes by with the same level becouse he just stood around and opened chests.
Thats not equity. A game needs to be same fair to all, and the game has been for grinders since it existed, and has been same fair.
Now there is a seperate leecherline and this doesnt fit in the whole.
Leechers already have WoW, Guild Wars and other games, why stealing the only good grinder game we got?

[Kazen]

why stealing the only good grinder game we got?

I think some Korean mmo's would like to have a word with you.

[Zeitzone]

As a crafter myself I agree with Ramsos. I made a massive profit on low level HQs until the introduction of Level Sync. I was making millions of gil on a weekly basis from Amemet Mantles+1 alone. After level sync was introduced the gear I crafted no longer sold on AH as it was no longer needed so I stopped making it. I now craft things like gobbie bag items for a modest 50k profit/synth just to pay for my consumables.

In short, stopping abyssea leeching will not and I repeat WILL NOT fix the AH problem you seem to think abyssea caused. I can say this with completely certainty that you have no clue what you're talking about.

Well Abyssea didnt make it better. So there still noting to craft for you.no Abyssea leech buys your crafted low level armors.

[Kazen]

Well Abyssea didnt make it better. So there still noting to craft for you.no Abyssea leech buys your crafted low level armors.

True abyssea didn't make it better but at the same time it didn't make it worse. So what you're arguing is completely futile.

[Zeitzone]

I think some Korean mmo's would like to have a word with you.

I dont think there is any good. Noone with Ingame scenes, tight story, very special sortiment of quests and houses you can get in. And that are the main points a grinder want beside exping.
Leechers only want graphic, shining gears and skilltrees.

[Ramsos]

Gosh, do you even remember a Post i wrote before?
I already said i do not habe problems finding partyes.
I just dont want this free leeching in FFXI, becouse it is unfair to grinders who work and put in efforts for them sucesses.
so a grinder has a hard life in the game and is proud on it.
And then a leecher comes by with the same level becouse he just stood around and opened chests.
Thats not equity. A game needs to be same fair to all, and the game has been for grinders since it existed, and has been same fair.
Now there is a seperate leecherline and this doesnt fit in the whole.
Leechers already have WoW, Guild Wars and other games, why stealing the only good grinder game we got?

So, because you have some masochistic love of horrid exp, you feel that everyone should be forced to do what you do. Leveling jobs should not be an accomplishment, it never was. Who cares how you leveled a job, as long as you had fun doing it. This is a game, this is not a job. You liked leveling the old way? Good for you, many of us did not. We suffered through it so we could experience endgame, we enjoy endgame more than fighting the same stupid mobs for hours on end. No one is stopping you from leveling the old way, as you said you have no problem getting parties for bad exp.

[Zeitzone]

True abyssea didn't make it better but at the same time it didn't make it worse. So what you're arguing is completely futile.

Sure it made it worse, in Abyssea noone level 30 buys gears, me as a grinder, i bought gears for my level even in synch, becouse other gears had bad status if they were synched down, gears on my synched level always had better stats.
If you want to fume fume on the equipment storage npc, becouse i got nearly any storagable existing gear storaged there.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

So, because you have some masochistic love of horrid exp, you feel that everyone should be forced to do what you do. Leveling jobs should not be an accomplishment, it never was. Who cares how you leveled a job, as long as you had fun doing it. This is a game, this is not a job. You liked leveling the old way? Good for you, many of us did not. We suffered through it so we could experience endgame, we enjoy endgame more than fighting the same stupid mobs for hours on end. No one is stopping you from leveling the old way, as you said you have no problem getting parties for bad exp.

again if SE changed it, you would not be going back to the "god awful horrible EXP" the change would be two fold (most likely) to lessen the blow, the cap would be raised and EXP outside would be adjusted again. You could get around 1k EXP a kill in a 6 man PT, then when you hit 70+ you can enter abyssea and level from 70-90 like you have been doing.

It would be a little slower then it is now, but not as slow as it used to be.

[Kazen]

Sure it made it worse, in Abyssea noone level 30 buys gears, me as a grinder, i bought gears for my level even in synch, becouse other gears had bad status if they were synched down, gears on my synched level always had better stats.
If you want to fume fume on the equipment storage npc, becouse i got nearly any storagable existing gear storaged there.

I'm not sure where you went to school but... 0 is still 0. None sold after level sync and none sold after abyssea. I'm not going to waste gil putting something on AH 5 times on the off chance some random dude like you decides to be different. It is a fact that level sync has killed low levels as everyone obtains exp at two different areas.

[Zeitzone]

So, because you have some masochistic love of horrid exp, you feel that everyone should be forced to do what you do. Leveling jobs should not be an accomplishment, it never was. Who cares how you leveled a job, as long as you had fun doing it. This is a game, this is not a job. You liked leveling the old way? Good for you, many of us did not. We suffered through it so we could experience endgame, we enjoy endgame more than fighting the same stupid mobs for hours on end. No one is stopping you from leveling the old way, as you said you have no problem getting parties for bad exp.

Every game has a basic how it works, and ffxi had a good grinder basic, and alot ppl acepted that and were satisfied with it.
Every game has a exp per kill per level basic.
Some game sgive more some less.
FFXI always had a good way of giving exp, but with the leeching it just gives too much exp.
Thats not playing anymore, thats just like you sit on the street, a guy passes by and press you 1000000 Dollar in your hand, you know you didnt deserve them, will you take them? Maybe the next thing happens is a policeman passes my and arrests you becouse he say that you have stolen that money.
I dont go play on Servers where i kill 1 Monster an am max level, and thats what Abyssea does.

[Zeitzone]

I'm not sure where you went to school but... 0 is still 0. None sold after level sync and none sold after abyssea. I'm not going to waste gil putting something on AH 5 times on the off chance some random dude like you decides to be different. It is a fact that level sync has killed low levels as everyone obtains exp at two different areas.

Well you say it killed it, i never had a problem to sell my clothcraft items till Abyssea

[Thuggin]

I think this is a modest request. 30 is much too low to do anything in Abyssea. We know it specifically for key-whoring until you get into the upper levels in which case you are forced to skill-up and obtain spells that you missed out on with your exp binge.

I'm not calling anyone out who does this, but you got to admit it is kinda lame to be able to do this.


Lower the level to 0.

[Zeitzone]

again if SE changed it, you would not be going back to the "god awful horrible EXP" the change would be two fold (most likely) to lessen the blow, the cap would be raised and EXP outside would be adjusted again. You could get around 1k EXP a kill in a 6 man PT, then when you hit 70+ you can enter abyssea and level from 70-90 like you have been doing.

It would be a little slower then it is now, but not as slow as it used to be.

But it whould be closer to it and acceptable.
Ppl whould get more exp, but they will have to work for it again, and thats the main point.

[Kazen]

I'm going to go ahead and say it. 95% of the people in Abyssea are leeches. Unless you're a level 90 you're a leech. The people in this thread are such hypocrites; if you don't have the best possible gear and I'm doing 75% of the total damage for the alliance... guess what, everyone in that alliance is a leech. If you don't have Atma of the Razed Ruins you're a leech. If you're in an alliance wearing full pearl or pink you're a leech. If you do not have AF3 equipped you're a leech.

So what I'm trying to say is most of the people here against leeching are indeed leeches themselves.

[Ramsos]

again if SE changed it, you would not be going back to the "god awful horrible EXP" the change would be two fold (most likely) to lessen the blow, the cap would be raised and EXP outside would be adjusted again. You could get around 1k EXP a kill in a 6 man PT, then when you hit 70+ you can enter abyssea and level from 70-90 like you have been doing.

It would be a little slower then it is now, but not as slow as it used to be.

First of all, abyssea exp for 70-90+ wouldnt exist since you would have no chest leeches. No level 70 is going to waste their cruor opening boxes. The "everyone opens boxes" strategy is unfair since many people will obviously just "forget to buy keys" or "not see boxes" or "forget to open boxes".

Raising exp outside would do nothing to change the AH or skill up situation. People will just sync to collibri or smn burn to get to 70 asap.

[Zeitzone]

I'm going to go ahead and say it. 95% of the people in Abyssea are leeches. Unless you're a level 90 you're a leech. The people in this thread are such hypocrites; if you don't have the best possible gear and I'm doing 75% of the total damage for the alliance... guess what, everyone in that alliance is a leech. If you don't have Atma of the Razed Ruins you're a leech. If you're in an alliance wearing full pearl or pink you're a leech. If you do not have AF3 equipped you're a leech.

So what I'm trying to say is most of the people here against leeching are indeed leeches themselves.

Thats the most supid thing i ever heard in my life.
You leech if you are the guy whos orginaly low level and profits from other persons work.

[Zeitzone]

First of all, abyssea exp for 70-90+ wouldnt exist since you would have no chest leeches. No level 70 is going to waste their cruor opening boxes. The "everyone opens boxes" strategy is unfair since many people will obviously just "forget to buy keys" or "not see boxes" or "forget to open boxes".

Raising exp outside would do nothing to change the AH or skill up situation. People will just sync to collibri or smn burn to get to 70 asap.

You can not synch to colibris if you only can synch down to the low level in pt.

[Ramsos]

Thats the most supid thing i ever heard in my life.
You leech if you are the guy whos orginaly low level and profits from other persons work.

Actually he is 100% correct. If I'm am doing 75%+ of an 18 man alliances damage, what is the differance between a lvl 30 and a 90 in full pink, at least the 30 is opening boxes.

[Kazen]

Thats the most supid thing i ever heard in my life.
You leech if you are the guy whos orginaly low level and profits from other persons work.

Incorrect. I have never leeched an abyssea job before yet I'm all for abyssea leeching. You just assumed I was a leech because I'm debating for them. I'm sorry, please try again.

[Zeitzone]

Actually he is 100% correct. If I'm am doing 75%+ of an 18 man alliances damage, what is the differance between a lvl 30 and a 90 in full pink, at least the 30 is opening boxes.

The level 30 profits more from the chest as he deserved!

[Kazen]

Actually he is 100% correct. If I'm am doing 75%+ of an 18 man alliances damage, what is the differance between a lvl 30 and a 90 in full pink, at least the 30 is opening boxes.

This is my point exactly. Sometimes for fun I'll enter a pickup ally for about 1hr or so to cap merits and I go unfiltered just to have some fun. It's always amazing to see the guy doing 1k WSs when mine do 4.

[Zeitzone]

Incorrect. I have never leeched an abyssea job before yet I'm all for abyssea leeching. You just assumed I was a leech because I'm debating for them. I'm sorry, please try again.

Wtf? See that "if".

[Kazen]

"If" what? You're making no sense.

[Zeitzone]

Anyways, its really borring to debate with you 2. You two seems to have no RL thats why you are 24/7 inside this forum when ffxi isnt runing.
And my GF waits and i want to take a shower anyway, i had a hard profitable work day and now i want to relax and not to debate and get flamed by ppl who can not call a rl them own.
GN

[Ramsos]

You can not synch to colibris if you only can synch down to the low level in pt.

I think we are having a fundamental difference of population issues here. You are German, you play with the German population. I am American and play with the American population. In the American population, ever since level sync started, NO ONE did exp on anything besides collibri. No one, ever. If collibri camps were taken, you did not exp.

I dont know how the German population handled this. You guys may have just settled for less efficient camps where an American would have just decided to wait till one of the existing parties either broke or invited them. I think we are just having a fundamental misunderstanding since our populations might just act differently. Only thing I can think of.

[Kazen]

RL card pulled? ABORT ABORT ABORT

Have a nice night hypocrite.

[Zeitzone]

"If" what? You're making no sense.

You leech if you are the guy whos orginaly low level and profits from other persons work.

See it now?

IFFFFFFFFFF, so not "you are a nutt" but rather "you are a nutt if you dont get it yet"

[Zeitzone]

I think we are having a fundamental difference of population issues here. You are German, you play with the German population. I am American and play with the American population. In the American population, ever since level sync started, NO ONE did exp on anything besides collibri. No one, ever. If collibri camps were taken, you did not exp.

I dont know how the German population handled this. You guys may have just settled for less efficient camps where an American would have just decided to wait till one of the existing parties either broke or invited them. I think we are just having a fundamental misunderstanding since our populations might just act differently. Only thing I can think of.

There were alot more camps then colibri, we camped on trolls, on mamool ja, we even took Imps and flys.

And now GN, finally.

[Kazen]

No, anyone in an ally not doing enough damage is a leech. In an 18 man group if one person is doing more than 50% of the work then everyone else there is a leech. There is nothing you can say to question this, it's just a fact. Please note I have nothing against these people at all since I don't mind any leeches. I'm more than willing to contribute 75% of the work and I'm completely ok with that. If some random dude wants to be a gimp and leech... let him.

I'm more ok with the level 30 guy opening chests as he's allowing me to further increase my overall damage and the productiveness of the party.

[Sprieth]

Zeitzone, I'm curious as to what you would think of a person who leeched their job from 30 - 90, then capped their skills, spent time getting good gear, reading up on how to play their job through the course of 2 weeks. Then is standing next to you as the same job, hitting the same mob and out damaging you. What would you say or do to this person?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

No, anyone in an ally not doing enough damage is a leech. In an 18 man group if one person is doing more than 50% of the work then everyone else there is a leech.So then 90% of all alliances I've built have 16/18 people leeching?

[Starcade]

So then 90% of all alliances I've built have 16/18 people leeching?

Sounds like that's his attitude, yes.

[Greatguardian]

No, anyone in an ally not doing enough damage is a leech. In an 18 man group if one person is doing more than 50% of the work then everyone else there is a leech. There is nothing you can say to question this, it's just a fact. Please note I have nothing against these people at all since I don't mind any leeches. I'm more than willing to contribute 75% of the work and I'm completely ok with that. If some random dude wants to be a gimp and leech... let him.

I'm more ok with the level 30 guy opening chests as he's allowing me to further increase my overall damage and the productiveness of the party.

This ^.

If anything, I personally find it insulting when I see level 90 full Aurore Rngs hitting things with their Axe complaining about leeches; as if they're contributing anything at all. At least the level 30s are opening chests. Some of the absolutely terrible DDs (read: 99% of pickup parties, so this probably includes people against leeching) don't do anything at all but feed TP and pull mobs further away from the real DDs.

[Nepharite]

Zeitzone, I'm curious as to what you would think of a person who leeched their job from 30 - 90, then capped their skills, spent time getting good gear, reading up on how to play their job through the course of 2 weeks. Then is standing next to you as the same job, hitting the same mob and out damaging you. What would you say or do to this person?

This is why most people here are complaining about leeches.

[Starcade]

The level 30 profits more from the chest as he deserved!

The cost in cruor might beg to differ with that attitude.

[Kazen]

Not really an attitude, it's just the truth. I never said it was all alliances that were like this. I'm just saying it's usually people like this that are arguing for the leech point and it's extremely ironic.

[Nepharite]

Not really an attitude, it's just the truth. I never said it was all alliances that were like this. I'm just saying it's usually people like this that are arguing for the leech point and it's extremely ironic.

Definitely the truth. Most of the time all the work is done by 2-3 DD, 1-2 healers, and 1-2 pullers. All else in the alliance are generally not doing jack.

[Zeitzone]

Well a last answer for today becouse you asked nice instead of flaming like the others.
Sure that person will do then a good job and you cant see the difference later, but still he got to 90 by leeching, and thats not right, why making so much levels in a game with so huge exp differences if then just open chests and get up multiple levels.
Then why even bothering with levels? Why not removing all levels and turn a MMORPG into an Action adventure.
Becouse if you can get with no risk to level 90 it is like you whould start the game with level 90.
In every RPG you need to desserve the levels by leveling up slowly.
Morrowind, Gothic, Breath od Fire, Wild Arms, Suikoden, Two Worlds....
Thats the main meening of a RPG. If you can get as quick to 90 as you can do it in Abyssea its no more a RPG, its just a Action Adventure/Hack n slash. Its like Playing Tomb Raider and collecting gems and guns to get stronger, and maybe some gear.

[Nacht]

In every RPG you need to desserve the levels by leveling up slowly.
Morrowind, Gothic, Breath od Fire, Wild Arms, Suikoden, Two Worlds....
Thats the main meening of a RPG. If you can get as quick to 90 as you can do it in Abyssea its no more a RPG, its just a Action Adventure/Hack n slash. Its like Playing Tomb Raider and collecting gems and guns to get stronger, and maybe some gear.

We leveled slow for 6+ years. Now it's time to speed up.

[Nepharite]

Its still optional, no one is forcing you to exp like this.

[Sprieth]

Well a last answer for today becouse you asked nice instead of flaming like the others.
Sure that person will do then a good job and you cant see the difference later, but still he got to 90 by leeching, and thats not right, why making so much levels in a game with so huge exp differences if then just open chests and get up multiple levels.
Then why even bothering with levels? Why not removing all levels and turn a MMORPG into an Action adventure.
Becouse if you can get with no risk to level 90 it is like you whould start the game with level 90.
In every RPG you need to desserve the levels by leveling up slowly.
Morrowind, Gothic, Breath od Fire, Wild Arms, Suikoden, Two Worlds....
Thats the main meening of a RPG. If you can get as quick to 90 as you can do it in Abyssea its no more a RPG, its just a Action Adventure/Hack n slash. Its like Playing Tomb Raider and collecting gems and guns to get stronger, and maybe some gear.

This seems like the reason FFXI is a great game though. It's not set on a certain way to play. There are so many different styles/ways to level, play and have fun that so many different people can play this game. If you force everyone to play the same way you alienate others. I think the group (most likely a minority) we are forgetting is those people who just like to explore. There used to be many at the beginning of FFXI. People who would just run around and explore and not worry about jobs or levels or grinding. Just wanted to do quests or explore the world and take pictures and look at everything. At level 30 whm you have sneak and invis which will allow you to go into abyssea and explore and not bother anyone. You raise the cap now those people have to endure grinding (which might not be fun for them) just to get to a new area to explore.

Edit: Also if they leech a job to 90 that will allow them to do more questing and missions solo to explore more content by themselves and possibly never bother anyone.

[Zeitzone]

sigh, i think i need to stop looking in this thread or i will never get to go sleep XD
You did it for 6 years and now you think you deserve that it goes faster? This is a MMO, its endless, its not like other RPG where you play them once trough fair and straight and then use Cheats for the second time you play it.
This game has no end so you cant just think, "ok i played FFXI for 6 years and got 3 Jobs to 75, now i deserve to get all other jobs free". There has been ppl leveled all jobs to 75 in those 6years.
Its never time to speed up becouse the game needs to stay as much possible equal to the old to be the game it is.
Sure there are changes, any rpg gives add-ons or updates, but never so radical that you can get exp for 10 levels or more in an instant.

And now i shut down the PC before i get seduced to look back into this forum.
GN

[Greatguardian]

Its still optional, no one is forcing you to exp like this.

I don't think he/she/it cares, nor do a lot of the anti-leech posters.

It's become a matter of "what leechers do is immoral and I must fight against it" for a lot of people.

Good luck getting through that.

[Nepharite]

I don't think he/she/it cares, nor do a lot of the anti-leech posters.

It's become a matter of "what leechers do is immoral and I must fight against it" for a lot of people.

Good luck getting through that.

I guess its too much to argue that the game is a lot more than exp grinding.

If you think exp is all there is, then your not reaching the full potential of your lv90 whatever. So us lv90s that move on past the exp part will leave you behind.


-edit, besides we still have to do the grind, most of the people here that are pro leeching are working on multiple emperyean weapons. Thats a ton of grinding.

[Kazen]

I don't think he/she/it cares, nor do a lot of the anti-leech posters.

It's become a matter of "what leechers do is immoral and I must fight against it" for a lot of people.

Good luck getting through that.

That sound strangely similar to anything that deals with religion, gay marriage, etc.

Seriously, take what you just said and replace it with gay marriage lol. I'm going to do this real fast lol.


I don't think he/she/it cares, nor do a lot of the gay marriage protesters.

It's become a matter of "what gays do is immoral and I must fight against it" for a lot of people.

Good luck getting through that.

[Neisan_Quetz]

EDIT: missed a few pages

Old system for exp was punishment, it had to be lowered long before abyssea because the exp increase to level was nothing short of brutal. And this was back when 5-10k/hour exp was good. it used to take months if you wanted to cap merits for 1 job. TaU it got better but it was still a grind, just shortened it from months to weeks. And you want to go back to the old exp system? go right ahead, and take whoever thinks like you do with you, everyone else will happily exp in what fashion suits them, and you can go exp in a fashion that suits you.

[Nacht]

Its never time to speed up becouse the game needs to stay as much possible equal to the old to be the game it is.
Sure there are changes, any rpg gives add-ons or updates, but never so radical that you can get exp for 10 levels or more in an instant.

Times are changing and SE clearly wants to make it easier and easier for people to level. Introduction of level sync, xp rings, FoV, etc. They did make a jump in easing difficulty, but it's not beyond the scope of what they were intending. It's inconceivable that in the months they took to develop all three Abyssea expansions, no one realized that low level people could leech exp. More likely, it was discussed and accepted.

[Greatguardian]

That sound strangely similar to anything that deals with religion, gay marriage, etc.

Seriously, take what you just said and replace it with gay marriage lol. I'm going to do this real fast lol.

This is so incredibly ironic, you just made my day.

[Nepharite]

Times are changing and SE clearly wants to make it easier and easier for people to level. Introduction of level sync, xp rings, FoV, etc. They did make a jump in easing difficulty, but it's not beyond the scope of what they were intending. It's inconceivable that in the months they took to develop all three Abyssea expansions, no one realized that low level people could leech exp. More likely, it was discussed and accepted.

People have always been leeching, only now its not as detrimental to the exp/hr.
I'm glad they found a way to completely do away with the mid party d/c that would destroy an exp pt.

[Skybrit]

This seems like the reason FFXI is a great game though. It's not set on a certain way to play. There are so many different styles/ways to level, play and have fun that so many different people can play this game. If you force everyone to play the same way you alienate others. I think the group (most likely a minority) we are forgetting is those people who just like to explore. There used to be many at the beginning of FFXI. People who would just run around and explore and not worry about jobs or levels or grinding. Just wanted to do quests or explore the world and take pictures and look at everything. At level 30 whm you have sneak and invis which will allow you to go into abyssea and explore and not bother anyone. You raise the cap now those people have to endure grinding (which might not be fun for them) just to get to a new area to explore.

Edit: Also if they leech a job to 90 that will allow them to do more questing and missions solo to explore more content by themselves and possibly never bother anyone.

LOL, there is no such thing as grinding in this game anymore.. It's all speed lvling with exp upgrades, FOV and lvl sync.

[Seha]

Game's like this now and 90% of the playerbase like it this way. I don't like leeching but I've accepted how things are, do it too. A good hard new endgame is what we need now imho, where we can again appreciate the aspects of all jobs instead of brainlessly throwing 18 bodies at weak mobs(the thing I hate the most about abyssea actually <.<). I see your point, seeing noobs bragging about their 20 lv 90 jobs and sucking at all 20 of them sure is annoying, but I'm afraid that killing aby-leech wouldn't solve the problem. Too late at least, should have been implemented this way from the start, but it wasn't and turning back now would be silly.

Just my personal opinion.

[tazkwondo]

Honestly, 30 is probably too low for Abyssea. I know it sucks to level the old way, but we now have a lot of fake 90's that have no clue what their job entails. People missing like 20 spells. No real gear or clue what their job abilities do. Some of you may like interacting and partying with the fake 90's but I do not.

I think the minimum level should be raised to at least 50. Maybe even 60. You can make it to 90 now without even getting the aht urghan expansion. People may never visit those levels. I don't speak from nostalgia, I just think the servers are just going to be overpopulated with players that are more obsessed with getting to 90 or 99 than learning their job.

[Greatguardian]

Honestly, 30 is probably too low for Abyssea. I know it sucks to level the old way, but we now have a lot of fake 90's that have no clue what their job entails. People missing like 20 spells. No real gear or clue what their job abilities do. Some of you may like interacting and partying with the fake 90's but I do not.

I think the minimum level should be raised to at least 50. Maybe even 60. You can make it to 90 now without even getting the aht urghan expansion. People may never visit those levels. I don't speak from nostalgia, I just think the servers are just going to be overpopulated with players that are more obsessed with getting to 90 or 99 than learning their job.

They have been for the past 8 years. The only difference is we include things like gear swapping and recognizing the value of Haste as key components in knowing one's job. People with capped skills, who can pull Dynamis and complete missions, but do so in one set of gear and who insist STR is better than Haste for a TP set? They do not know their jobs.

[Nacht]

I think the minimum level should be raised to at least 50. Maybe even 60. You can make it to 90 now without even getting the aht urghan expansion. People may never visit those levels. I don't speak from nostalgia, I just think the servers are just going to be overpopulated with players that are more obsessed with getting to 90 or 99 than learning their job.

It should be able to balance itself out. If people keep kicking gimps out, then the gimps will realize they're doing something wrong and fix it. Or they won't, but either way, they don't have to be -your- problem if you just kick them.

[Greatguardian]

It should be able to balance itself out. If people keep kicking gimps out, then the gimps will realize they're doing something wrong and fix it. Or they won't, but either way, they don't have to be -your- problem if you just kick them.

I'd love to think that... instead, whenever I kick people out of my groups for not changing gear or wearing Haste, they yell at me and make threads on FFXIAH and Allakhazam to have dozens of other gimps yell about me too :(

[Icestein]

I'd love to think that... instead, whenever I kick people out of my groups for not changing gear or wearing Haste, they yell at me and make threads on FFXIAH and Allakhazam to have dozens of other gimps yell about me too :(

I have to agree. When I was leading a party I got quite a bit of stick for kicking a warrior/paladin who came in full adaman armor, a sword and shield. Shortly after I kicked him he had found another party.

[Nacht]

I have to agree. When I was leading a party I got quite a bit of stick for kicking a warrior/paladin who came in full adaman armor, a sword and shield. Shortly after I kicked him he had found another party.

It's gotta be a collective effort...
Who am I kidding, you're right, it was a bit far fetched.

[RaenRyong]

where we can again appreciate the aspects of all jobs instead of brainlessly throwing 18 bodies at weak mobs(the thing I hate the most about abyssea actually <.<).

You are perfectly describing old endgame, where events were done with members far in excess of the minimum or even the optimum.

Anyone throwing 18 members at any Abyssean mob needs to learn how to split groups for greatest efficiency.

[Sesono]

Whenever you kick a n00b: REMEMBER! You once were one of them ...
You always have the option (opportunity) to give them advice ~ its on them to decide if they take it or not.

btw. i would love to see the minimum lvl allowed in Abyssea would be 75.

[Seha]

Whenever you kick a n00b: REMEMBER! You once were one of them ...
You always have the option (opportunity) to give them advice ~ its on them to decide if they take it or not.
Problem is when you kindly try to give advices and they insult you for doing so.

[Skybrit]

Just dont do it in party chat.. That sucks lol

[Seha]

Of course, always used tells to give advices, but people just simply don't accept them lol

[RaenRyong]

Whenever you kick a n00b: REMEMBER! You once were one of them ...
You always have the option (opportunity) to give them advice ~ its on them to decide if they take it or not.

I was always very open to advice and actually would ask for it, especially if I saw someone who I perceived as having good gear and/or being good at the game.

[Sesono]

Ya well, then you still have the option to kick them out :D
And right using tells is a good idea.

[lorzy]

i wouldn't kick someone who took advice.

[Skybrit]

I really want to know why you assume this. If you look at most other MMOs content gets outdated on a regular basis and it hasn't affected the long term viability of those games.

I don't assume this. Game subscriptions are declining and servers are being eliminated/combined to keep the game viable for those that remain. New game content would be great but it can't just be end game content. Begining to mid lvl content needs to be viable and active to for new blood and replace the people that leave. Bringing new content and participation to the regular areas would be great for this.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I think this thread has more posts then the japanese forums.

[rog]

People have always been leeching, only now its not as detrimental to the exp/hr.
I'm glad they found a way to completely do away with the mid party d/c that would destroy an exp pt.


I think this thread has more posts then the japanese forums.
Wouldn't surprise me.

[Pharaun]

I don't assume this. Game subscriptions are declining and servers are being eliminated/combined to keep the game viable for those that remain. New game content would be great but it can't just be end game content. Begining to mid lvl content needs to be viable and active to for new blood and replace the people that leave. Bringing new content and participation to the regular areas would be great for this.

I understand where you are coming from, but if we are honest with ourselves this game really hasn't ever had anything resembling decent content for early and midgame. The only things that even come to mind for me are garrison and expeditionary force. This game has really been more about getting to level cap and doing Endgame content.

I honestly hope that the updates to Dynamis are successful since that could be a good model on how to turn old endgame content into a good midgame content.

[Rambus]

I understand where you are coming from, but if we are honest with ourselves this game really hasn't ever had anything resembling decent content for early and midgame. The only things that even come to mind for me are garrison and expeditionary force. This game has really been more about getting to level cap and doing Endgame content.

I honestly hope that the updates to Dynamis are successful since that could be a good model on how to turn old endgame content into a good midgame content.

What is the reason for a midgame now? you level to fast with abyssea.

midgame was fine when game was 75, i did that cap 20 quest, the conquest thing and garrison, then they came out whith CoP and assult.

you level too fast now to worry about "midgame" not worth the effrot, dyna needs to change to appeal to 90/99 level

[Neisan_Quetz]

Garrison and Expeditionary force were implemented badly, had mediocre rewards at best when they were semi relevent; no one will miss them.

[Linh]

This thread has gone on pointlessly.

You either pay for the game and support leeching, or you pay for the game and don't support leeching.

Cuz when it comes down to it, no one's opinions should matter more than the other cuz we all pay.

[Valefor4life]

Holy crap 162 pages

[Neisan_Quetz]

Holy crap 41 pages

I know, pretty long thread. SE left the entrance level at 30 for months after Abyssea was released, I'm on the they intended for leeching to occur camp.

[rog]

This thread has gone on pointlessly.

You either pay for the game and support leeching, or you pay for the game and don't support leeching.

Cuz when it comes down to it, no one's opinions should matter more than the other cuz we all pay.
I dunno, when 1 person thinks X, and 9000+ people think Y, then i'd say the first person's opinion matters much less than everyone else's.

[Miera]

Holy giant crabs, Batman! This thread is still going..

[Valefor4life]

I for one actually think don't mind lvl 30 or lowering it. But raising it? The OP must really be having a mid-life crisis. Probably reminiscing those days in in garlieg citadel. I for one sure's hell don't. You should go see a doctor before the 163rd page post.

[Ramsos]

I for one actually think don't mind lvl 30 or lowering it. But raising it? The OP must really be having a mid-life crisis. Probably reminiscing those days in in garlieg citadel. I for one sure's hell don't. You should go see a doctor before the 163rd page post.

The OP didnt start playing this game until after WoG release, I highly doubt they have ever even stepped into garlaige citadel.

[Nacht]

Dear lord, zeitzone has just won the internet. This is so fail that its win.

lol
.

[Alkalinehoe]

again if SE changed it, you would not be going back to the "god awful horrible EXP" the change would be two fold (most likely) to lessen the blow, the cap would be raised and EXP outside would be adjusted again. You could get around 1k EXP a kill in a 6 man PT, then when you hit 70+ you can enter abyssea and level from 70-90 like you have been doing.

It would be a little slower then it is now, but not as slow as it used to be.
Slowing down is still taking a step backwards.

[Odorf]

I just returned to the game, after a year of inactivity, about 6 hours before the servers went down. I haven't yet had a chance to glean a benefit of the Abyssea exp bounty... but having explained it to another friend who quit two years ago, and his girlfriend who quit three years ago, and hearing that they're both now coming back (for that reason)... I'd say that the benefit of leaving the cap at 30 (at least financially) outweighs the hindrance. The reality, from my standpoint, is that most people that are starting anew are old players returning... rather than new players trying the game for the first time. Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game. Also, though I can't speak from experience, it sounds like (as mentioned before) there is incentive to explore the diversity of your job (in the case of colored switches). *shrug* Just a thought from a non-situationally experienced taru.

[rog]

Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game.Why is that? They both seem equally nondamaging to me.

[TearValerin]

I just returned to the game, after a year of inactivity, about 6 hours before the servers went down. I haven't yet had a chance to glean a benefit of the Abyssea exp bounty... but having explained it to another friend who quit two years ago, and his girlfriend who quit three years ago, and hearing that they're both now coming back (for that reason)... I'd say that the benefit of leaving the cap at 30 (at least financially) outweighs the hindrance. The reality, from my standpoint, is that most people that are starting anew are old players returning... rather than new players trying the game for the first time. Giving them the key to power-leveling is less damaging than if this system were implemented in a newer game. Also, though I can't speak from experience, it sounds like (as mentioned before) there is incentive to explore the diversity of your job (in the case of colored switches). *shrug* Just a thought from a non-situationally experienced taru.

Same, I think Abyssea brought some much needed life into the game, the old tedious method where luck and time ran everything was annoying. I'm glad to see a balance between casual and hardcore gamers in a game for once, where there is not an option to pay to win. So long as they take the time to skill up and gear the job properly I have no problem with leeching. Pink/Perle DDs who think theyre amazing in the things they have on on the other hand, are quite obnoxious/loathsome.

[Odorf]

Why is that? They both seem equally nondamaging to me.

In a newer game, the percent of new players vs. returning players would be higher. While over-leveled, under-skilled players (i.e. people that aren't totally aware of their job's functionality) isn't necessarily damaging to the game as a whole, it certainly detracts from the fun-factor of those who are put in a position where they have to either help bring the overpowered newer player up to speed, or change their own situation to avoid said overpowered player. I hope that doesn't come across like an elitist jerk. In a newer game, overpowered players who benefit from a too-simple leveling system being implemented do a proportionally larger injustice to those who have grinded and toiled their way into some form of game-balance. It's not fair in a time-investment sense to the other players, and it rocks the balance of the game's dynamic, in my opinion.

[Auredant]

Anyways, its really borring to debate with you 2. You two seems to have no RL thats why you are 24/7 inside this forum when ffxi isnt runing.
And my GF waits and i want to take a shower anyway, i had a hard profitable work day and now i want to relax and not to debate and get flamed by ppl who can not call a rl them own.
GN
Funniest thing about this RL card gettin played...it was played by someone with 160 posts against someone with 43. LOL....FAIL

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Funniest thing about this RL card gettin played...it was played by someone with 160 posts against someone with 43. LOL....FAILAt least I know not to play it.
I'll just pull the race card.(Eskimo. ^^)

[Sprieth]

Same, I think Abyssea brought some much needed life into the game, the old tedious method where luck and time ran everything was annoying. I'm glad to see a balance between casual and hardcore gamers in a game for once, where there is not an option to pay to win. So long as they take the time to skill up and gear the job properly I have no problem with leeching. Pink/Perle DDs who think theyre amazing in the things they have on on the other hand, are quite obnoxious/loathsome.

I like this. I think it also brings to light the conflict between time < skill. It allows people who, 7 years ago, were in high school/college or just had endless amounts of time to invest in this game, can now still enjoy it with the limited time they now have (job, family, social activities take up time). Some of us have done the leveling to 75 the long, hard, old way and now that there's a new method we can have fun trying new jobs that before we could only watch. Sure not everyone of the jobs will be geared to the max, but those jobs will probably be used for solo messing around. I hope a majority of people who want to actually be good at their job take the time to do what's necessary. It's much nicer to come home from work and not sit around lfg or forming a party to only gain 1-3 levels. Instead spend maybe a day or two to get the proper level, then skill up and work on gear the other time. I can't speak for everyone but I prefer skilling up rather than grinding.

Side note: They need to implement polls so we can finally figure out who the majority and minority is on these forums. I think that would stop many arguments.

[Maquis]

Also known as "raise the level cap in abyssea from 30 to 65". At least thats 5 levels off of the OP, maybe in another 10k posts people will stop crying about leechers and accept it as something SE intended from the very beginning.

Entering Abyssea at 66 and doing Shattering Stars at 66 are two different things.

Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling, but at 90 this should not be all too hard.


Lower it to 1. Problem solved.

And yes, if they do this, they can allow level 1 jobs to enter Abyssea. 8P

[Sprieth]

Entering Abyssea at 66 and doing Shattering Stars at 66 are two different things.

Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling, but at 90 this should not be all too hard.

Is it possible to have a job at 90 and have NOT done shattering stars?

[Maquis]

Is it possible to have a job at 90 and have NOT done shattering stars?

Each Limit Break or Genkai unlocks your level cap to five higher levels on your character. You can do it on any job, but will unlock the level cap on all your jobs. So yeah, you can level a job to 90 if you have done all the limit break quests on another job.

[Komori]

What he means is, you said. Also, anyone with already a job at 90 that hasn't finished the quest will need to do it somtime in the future to prevent any deleveling".

Which is confusing, since you have to break the LIMIT in order to get above it in the first place. o.O

[rog]

In a newer game, the percent of new players vs. returning players would be higher. While over-leveled, under-skilled players (i.e. people that aren't totally aware of their job's functionality) isn't necessarily damaging to the game as a whole, it certainly detracts from the fun-factor of those who are put in a position where they have to either help bring the overpowered newer player up to speed, or change their own situation to avoid said overpowered player. I hope that doesn't come across like an elitist jerk. In a newer game, overpowered players who benefit from a too-simple leveling system being implemented do a proportionally larger injustice to those who have grinded and toiled their way into some form of game-balance. It's not fair in a time-investment sense to the other players, and it rocks the balance of the game's dynamic, in my opinion.
Does it really matter if a person learns how to play a job at level 20, or level 90? Exp could be removed entirely, and everyone could start at the max level, and that still wouldn't do any harm to the game.

[Nephilipitou]

Level 30 is fine. 50 would be the highest maximum I'd say they should implement. However that is still rather arbitrary in and of itself. Besides being a key person is a useful job in and of itself, they are still being useful and contributing, and they're being WAY more useful than someone who is basically missing and hitting for 0 for hours at lvl 75-90 range. However if people want to take lvl 30 jobs in and spend 12 hours in Abyssea getting it to 90 that's their issue.

Heck mage jobs don't even need skill ups.

"But they'll be gimp if they're not doing an extra 40-60 HP with their heals because their healing magic isn't up to snuff and that HP can make the difference between wiping or getting through with an NM fight!"

"They won't be able to land any enfeebles"

"Their Nukes won't do any damage and will be resisted!"

There's a simple answer to all of those concerns. /Sch

If you main or sub scholar they can basically get their stats up to snuff just by using Light Arts or Dark Arts, they'll gain skill ups as they perform actions that way, etcetera.

WHM/SCH means Accession Cure VI with Rapture turning Cure VI into an AoE and doing like 20-30 percent more than normal as well as getting that extra 40-80 HP for the cure due to light arts providing a roughly lvl 90 equivalent skill. As a Red Mage they can not only accession Phalanx and other spells but have their enhancing magic as if it were almost at cap.

Under Dark Arts Enfeebles will stick and nukes will be powered up enough to do damage while they skill up, as well as a boost to Dark Magic. Plus you can use Manifestation to have a Sleepga II instead of just Sleep II and Sleepga. Manifestation turns enfeebles and the like into AoE. Of course a BLM can heal pretty quickly with Manifestation Drain combo when there are multiple enemies in the camp as long as it doesn't get hate from all of them, or if it can switch to a Sleepga or a Manifestation Sleep II or even throw up mana wall in case of emergency.

So for the mages they're fine no matter what they do as long as they grab some appropriate tier spells, maybe get some gear, and sub scholar. They can still be perfectly usable in Abyssea and can get skill ups just fine using that method. Then when they get the skills they need they can sub something else.

I think saying that the minimum level to go into Abyssea near the 70s is kinda just wrong. Imagine if there was a level restriction to the Shadowreign era. I'd Probably be a DRK running around in Abyssea rather than a Scholar, cause if I had to get a character to level 30 just to go to the Eldeime Necropolis to do the quest for unlocking Scholar, I don't know if I would have done it by now. The only mage job I have above 30 even now, is Redmage and that was because it's got the spells I wanted to sub for my Scholar.

I dont' think a minimum level in Abyssea of like 30-40 or maybe even 50 would be an issue, but people shouldn't have to be forced to level from 50-75 where you have to gain 10-30k exp per level. Especially once they hit the level 60 range and people in Qufim/Dunes parties hit like 6 levels before you gain 1 level or everyone is gaining levels at 2x the rate you are. Right now if you're around level 50 the exp is capped in Abyssea at around 300-400 exp roughly and that's after you get all of your lights. Considering you can get that much easily without exp boosts outside of Abyssea, there's less reason to feel like Abyssea is the only way to get things done in a respectable time frame. If you don't have 4-8 hours of time to burn, then leveling outside of Abyssea will take you up faster possibly except in the case of Fell Cleave parties and amazing Dominion Ops parties depending on how fast the golden light builds up for you and how often you get exp chests.

Another point i want to make is at level 50 someone's sub job is done being leveled, so there's really no reason for them to level it up more than that unless they actually want to use it. However I know that if I was leveling nin as a sub job I wouldn't want to take it any higher than level 30 before I leech, cause I don't like Nin personally.

Raising the level cap to 70 is just going to decrease the amount of people available to you for seal farming, the amount of jobs they have available for proccing lights, etcetera. I don't think it really solves any problems. People can still Dunes and Qufim up to the cap and really there's very little if any benefits to instituting a cap, except for being some elitist. So I expect to see you doing shouts on your respective server in Jueno for good old fashioned exp parties.

I solo'd my puppetmaster from 1-20, duo'd till 23 or so, partied on and off between solos till about 45 range, and then I finally broke down and leeched to 74. Why? Because parties were getting a bit harder to find, people were complaining too dang much about the leechers, to the point to where it was getting annoying to party with people because they just keep ranting about how we should all be forced to level to level X, and most importantly, I wanted to get my BLM head and be able to get some more of my AF gear so I could get my overload gloves.

Since I had solo'd and partied so much my stats were capped, because 5 levels worth of level sync leveling was like 1/4 a level of soloing before I hit my caps again. So soloing wasn't beneficial, and partying was somewhat of a hassle at times, and elitists that are still leveling in the mid level range, are just annoying to party with cause all they rant about is that the game is too easy and I get tired of hearing that every other Kazham or higher party.

My skills are almost capped. I just merit as I gain Skillups in Abyssea and easily gain 40-50 skill ups for multiple skills in a single day soloing in Abyssea. I'm about 40-50 skill ups away from cap on a lot of those skills as well and have been able to work on getting my AF gear as I skill up. I'm about level 80 in skill, soon I'll have Tornado Kick.

Those are many of the reason why I think the position that the level cap needs to be raised higher than Genkai ranges, is just petty elitism and really doesn't do much but just prevent people from getting their job to cap, so that they can worry about the 100 other things that are important.

Ranks
CoP
ToAU missions
Salvage
Nyzul
Dynamis
AF1-3 +1/2
Magian Trials
Etcetera.

Do you really want to limit the amount of people who will level jobs that drop seals off of an NM that you don't need, so that you can lot for the ones you do need? The most you can hope for is to have more people with less jobs for proccing and to come with you on seal hunts as it becomes harder to level jobs.

I don't really see how any of the arguments FOR raising the level cap outweigh the things that I have mentioned thusly.

[Maquis]

TL;DR (Skimmed)

I think leeching is fine for subjobs. Just when you want to use it as a main job, prove that you know how the job works.

[rog]

I think leeching is fine for subjobs. Just when you want to use it as a main job, prove that you know how the job works.
Do you want us to prove we can use it in the dunes, with a pl, or in abyssea, in an NM party?

[Maquis]

Do you want us to prove we can use it in the dunes, with a pl, or in abyssea, in an NM party?

Just beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?

[rog]

Just beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?
So, if a whm can cast repose a few times, that proves they can heal an alliance?

[Maquis]

So, if a whm can cast repose a few times, that proves they can heal an alliance?

You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?

[Rie]

You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?

/SCH. You lose.

[rog]

You think WHMs need to prove their skill beyond getting Divine Magic skill high enough to pull that off?
Ignoring /sch for a second, what does skilling up divine magic have to do with healing? Being able to do x does not prove they can do Y.

[Maquis]

Ignoring /sch for a second, what does skilling up divine magic have to do with healing? Being able to do x does not prove they can do Y.

Okay, but /sch is not available in the fight itself.

If you spend enough time skilling up that skill, you at least put more time in playing the job (not leeching) before you reach higher levels.

[Rie]

You're acting as if skilling up is difficult.

[rog]

Okay, but /sch is not available in the fight itself.Yay power of suggestion. Saw it mentioned, and didn't even think about it -.-


If you spend enough time skilling up that skill, you at least put more time in playing the job (not leeching) before you reach higher levels.If i spend 10 months training how to cook bacon (and nothing else), does that make me a chef? Or perhaps all of that time was wasted doing some unimportant thing that shouldn't have taken more than 10 minutes to master, and thus is practically irrelevant to the rest of the field. Being able to set up a bot to cast banish on the zvahl fortalice all day does not do anything at all to improve your ability to keep an alliance alive.

[hiko]

Just beating Maat would be enough for me, what would be good for you?

maat cap syndrome players? (noobs fulltiming maat cap)

[Maquis]

You're acting as if skilling up is difficult.

Nope, just throwing out ideas. They could change the fights to reflect the changes made to all the jobs since the quest was made.

If I had a choice between raising the cap to 70+ or making Maat fight required for all jobs, I just know what I would choose.

[Maquis]

Yay power of suggestion. Saw it mentioned, and didn't even think about it -.-

If i spend 10 months training how to cook bacon (and nothing else), does that make me a chef? Or perhaps all of that time was wasted doing some unimportant thing that shouldn't have taken more than 10 minutes to master, and thus is practically irrelevant to the rest of the field. Being able to set up a bot to cast banish on the zvahl fortalice all day does not do anything at all to improve your ability to keep an alliance alive.

Okay, so they should beef up the fight? Make him always resist repose?

[rog]

Okay, so they should beef up the fight? Make him always resist repose?
You are missing the point. Just because someone can handle beating maat does not mean they can handle doing their actual job in a party. Likewise, just because they can handle level syncing to the dunes with a pl (where they do nothing but autoattack, and maybe ws, with no gear, or abilities) does not prove they can handle playing in a real party against real nms.

How often do you see brds meleeing? Never? Yet that is what they have to do for their maat fight. Why do they need to be able to melee? They don't.

[Maquis]

You are missing the point. Just because someone can handle beating maat does not mean they can handle doing their actual job in a party. Likewise, just because they can handle level syncing to the dunes with a pl (where they do nothing but autoattack, and maybe ws, with no gear, or abilities) does not prove they can handle playing in a real party against real nms.

How often do you see brds meleeing? Never? Yet that is what they have to do for their maat fight. Why do they need to be able to melee? They don't.

I think you are missing my point: It's a better solution than havin a level requirement of 70 in Abyssea.
Now, if they changed BRD Maat fight to have him win if he lands Lullaby... 8P

[rog]

I think you are missing my point: It's a better solution than capping Abyssea to 70.
Now, if they changed BRD Maat fight to have him win if he lands Lullaby... 8P
Both are terrible solutions.

And what is the problem that requires a solution anyway?

[Maquis]

Both are terrible solutions.

And what is the problem that requires a solution anyway?

Okay maybe not the best one, but with:


Replies: 1,650
Views: 33,075

I think it is present in the minds of some players.

[rog]

Almost all of those replies are repeated arguing in circles. There's maybe about 20 posts that aren't more or less identical to 10+ others in this thread.

[Alkalinehoe]

I don't get why people think they need to create a "solution" for abyssea. It's fine as is. =/

[Auredant]

Level 30 is fine. 50 would be the highest maximum I'd say they should implement. However that is still rather arbitrary in and of itself. Besides being a key person is a useful job in and of itself, they are still being useful and contributing, and they're being WAY more useful than someone who is basically missing and hitting for 0 for hours at lvl 75-90 range. However if people want to take lvl 30 jobs in and spend 12 hours in Abyssea getting it to 90 that's their issue.

Heck mage jobs don't even need skill ups.

"But they'll be gimp if they're not doing an extra 40-60 HP with their heals because their healing magic isn't up to snuff and that HP can make the difference between wiping or getting through with an NM fight!"

"They won't be able to land any enfeebles"

"Their Nukes won't do any damage and will be resisted!"

There's a simple answer to all of those concerns. /Sch

If you main or sub scholar they can basically get their stats up to snuff just by using Light Arts or Dark Arts, they'll gain skill ups as they perform actions that way, etcetera.

WHM/SCH means Accession Cure VI with Rapture turning Cure VI into an AoE and doing like 20-30 percent more than normal as well as getting that extra 40-80 HP for the cure due to light arts providing a roughly lvl 90 equivalent skill. As a Red Mage they can not only accession Phalanx and other spells but have their enhancing magic as if it were almost at cap.

Under Dark Arts Enfeebles will stick and nukes will be powered up enough to do damage while they skill up, as well as a boost to Dark Magic. Plus you can use Manifestation to have a Sleepga II instead of just Sleep II and Sleepga. Manifestation turns enfeebles and the like into AoE. Of course a BLM can heal pretty quickly with Manifestation Drain combo when there are multiple enemies in the camp as long as it doesn't get hate from all of them, or if it can switch to a Sleepga or a Manifestation Sleep II or even throw up mana wall in case of emergency.

So for the mages they're fine no matter what they do as long as they grab some appropriate tier spells, maybe get some gear, and sub scholar. They can still be perfectly usable in Abyssea and can get skill ups just fine using that method. Then when they get the skills they need they can sub something else.

I think saying that the minimum level to go into Abyssea near the 70s is kinda just wrong. Imagine if there was a level restriction to the Shadowreign era. I'd Probably be a DRK running around in Abyssea rather than a Scholar, cause if I had to get a character to level 30 just to go to the Eldeime Necropolis to do the quest for unlocking Scholar, I don't know if I would have done it by now. The only mage job I have above 30 even now, is Redmage and that was because it's got the spells I wanted to sub for my Scholar.

I dont' think a minimum level in Abyssea of like 30-40 or maybe even 50 would be an issue, but people shouldn't have to be forced to level from 50-75 where you have to gain 10-30k exp per level. Especially once they hit the level 60 range and people in Qufim/Dunes parties hit like 6 levels before you gain 1 level or everyone is gaining levels at 2x the rate you are. Right now if you're around level 50 the exp is capped in Abyssea at around 300-400 exp roughly and that's after you get all of your lights. Considering you can get that much easily without exp boosts outside of Abyssea, there's less reason to feel like Abyssea is the only way to get things done in a respectable time frame. If you don't have 4-8 hours of time to burn, then leveling outside of Abyssea will take you up faster possibly except in the case of Fell Cleave parties and amazing Dominion Ops parties depending on how fast the golden light builds up for you and how often you get exp chests.

Another point i want to make is at level 50 someone's sub job is done being leveled, so there's really no reason for them to level it up more than that unless they actually want to use it. However I know that if I was leveling nin as a sub job I wouldn't want to take it any higher than level 30 before I leech, cause I don't like Nin personally.

Raising the level cap to 70 is just going to decrease the amount of people available to you for seal farming, the amount of jobs they have available for proccing lights, etcetera. I don't think it really solves any problems. People can still Dunes and Qufim up to the cap and really there's very little if any benefits to instituting a cap, except for being some elitist. So I expect to see you doing shouts on your respective server in Jueno for good old fashioned exp parties.

I solo'd my puppetmaster from 1-20, duo'd till 23 or so, partied on and off between solos till about 45 range, and then I finally broke down and leeched to 74. Why? Because parties were getting a bit harder to find, people were complaining too dang much about the leechers, to the point to where it was getting annoying to party with people because they just keep ranting about how we should all be forced to level to level X, and most importantly, I wanted to get my BLM head and be able to get some more of my AF gear so I could get my overload gloves.

Since I had solo'd and partied so much my stats were capped, because 5 levels worth of level sync leveling was like 1/4 a level of soloing before I hit my caps again. So soloing wasn't beneficial, and partying was somewhat of a hassle at times, and elitists that are still leveling in the mid level range, are just annoying to party with cause all they rant about is that the game is too easy and I get tired of hearing that every other Kazham or higher party.

My skills are almost capped. I just merit as I gain Skillups in Abyssea and easily gain 40-50 skill ups for multiple skills in a single day soloing in Abyssea. I'm about 40-50 skill ups away from cap on a lot of those skills as well and have been able to work on getting my AF gear as I skill up. I'm about level 80 in skill, soon I'll have Tornado Kick.

Those are many of the reason why I think the position that the level cap needs to be raised higher than Genkai ranges, is just petty elitism and really doesn't do much but just prevent people from getting their job to cap, so that they can worry about the 100 other things that are important.

Ranks
CoP
ToAU missions
Salvage
Nyzul
Dynamis
AF1-3 +1/2
Magian Trials
Etcetera.

Do you really want to limit the amount of people who will level jobs that drop seals off of an NM that you don't need, so that you can lot for the ones you do need? The most you can hope for is to have more people with less jobs for proccing and to come with you on seal hunts as it becomes harder to level jobs.

I don't really see how any of the arguments FOR raising the level cap outweigh the things that I have mentioned thusly.
With all the Atma out there...there is no reason a DD cant contribute as early as 70. I'd take a 70dd wit 3 lunar and good atma over a 75 wit 1lunar and crap atma any day

[Maquis]

Almost all of those replies are repeated arguing in circles. There's maybe about 20 posts that aren't more or less identical to 10+ others in this thread.

I'm happy you haven't been banned here yet.

I think there is a problem yes, but it might not affect you. I think SE thought with Abyssea, lets just remove all the chains and let them have fun. Give players uber powers and when they are done with it, they will move to FFXIV. That didn't quite work and will now try to salvage FFXI a bit. Not claiming it is like this, I can just image their way of thinking.

[rog]

I think there is a problem yes, but it might not affect you.
Which is...?

[Maquis]

Which is...?

Exactly my point.

[Vinc]

I think SE thought with Abyssea, lets just remove all the chains and let them have fun.


You see the problem with this?

[Maquis]

You see the problem with this?

Guys, im not in anyway saying Abyssea is bad or that I have problems with the level 30 requirement.
I'm just giving an alternative to the level 70 requirement as posted in the OP.

[rog]

Exactly my point.
No it's not. You said there was a problem, and thta it just might not affect me. My point was that no problem exists for anyone.

[Mirage]

I don't have anything against low-levels gaining exp in abyssea, but i think it's dumb that even at lv30, the exp is 5 times better than anywhere else at lv30.

I don't like exp gain differences that are so huge that they become the only *real* option.

[hiko]

I don't have anything against low-levels gaining exp in abyssea, but i think it's dumb that even at lv30, the exp is 5 times better than anywhere else at lv30.

I don't like exp gain differences that are so huge that they become the only *real* option.
then let's boost xp outside aby again (max 600xp/mob +xp chain bonus)

[Mirage]

I'd aim for sort of a middle path. Gradually reducing exp gain down to lv30 inside abyssea, so that a LV30 there for example now got aabout twice the current non-abyssea exp. that would still be enough to make it worth it to leech.

Outside abyssea, increase by maybe another 10-15% and make some changes that enable faster kills. Some of these changes could be:

lower mob repop timers in dungeons
Increase the amount of certain mob spawns in some zones
Add a slight global auto-refresh/regen that would be in addition to current refresh and regen features and methods.
Make IS and CP worth getting again, by adding new rewards that are actually useful and nice for high level characters. The usefulness of cruor is another reason why people would stay in there at low levels, even if there was comparable exp elsewhere.

[Takero]

then let's boost xp outside aby again (max 600xp/mob +xp chain bonus)
I don't think people will level outside of Abyssea regardless if boost exp once more. There is just to many benefits behind leveling in Abyssea. At least, I know I'd prefer being there.

I actually do not have a problem with Abyssea that much. There is just to many ways to work around the huge gap. Such as skilling up on another job before you decide to level next job, or using HB or C&D, along with RR and Apoc for further skill ups when reach a certain level. With the new skill update, its much easier to cap.

Before Abyssea came out, I actually found some people either taking jobs 20-75 in Qufim Island or 37-75 through East Ronfaure [S]. And no, from ones I did talk to about it, most of them had their skill level at respective zone level and not higher.

[Rambus]

I'd aim for sort of a middle path. Gradually reducing exp gain down to lv30 inside abyssea, so that a LV30 there for example now got aabout twice the current non-abyssea exp. that would still be enough to make it worth it to leech.

Outside abyssea, increase by maybe another 10-15% and make some changes that enable faster kills. Some of these changes could be:

lower mob repop timers in dungeons Increase the amount of certain mob spawns in some zones
Add a slight global auto-refresh/regen that would be in addition to current refresh and regen features and methods.
Make IS and CP worth getting again, by adding new rewards that are actually useful and nice for high level characters. The usefulness of cruor is another reason why people would stay in there at low levels, even if there was comparable exp elsewhere.

wonder why they are so much longer to begin with...

[Emitremmus]

wonder why they are so much longer to begin with...

I've pondered why mob respawn is 16 min in dungeons also. Only reason I can think of is that most of the high-end quests and missions are done in dungeons. By the time you clear a room to pop a mission NM you're going to have some links or adds if you have enemies on 5 min repops. 16 min gives you a good chunk of time to take out your target.

[Skybrit]

No it's not. You said there was a problem, and thta it just might not affect me. My point was that no problem exists for anyone.

Except that the numbers playing the game are decreasing and the servers are being closed down and combined. Hopefully changes can be made to keep the around.

[Skybrit]

then let's boost xp outside aby again (max 600xp/mob +xp chain bonus)

i have seen this already in my parties.

[Skybrit]

I've pondered why mob respawn is 16 min in dungeons also. Only reason I can think of is that most of the high-end quests and missions are done in dungeons. By the time you clear a room to pop a mission NM you're going to have some links or adds if you have enemies on 5 min repops. 16 min gives you a good chunk of time to take out your target.

Sounds like a good explanation

[Mirage]

That's a fair point. Or at least it used to be a fair point when people did those quests and missions at the levels the quests and missions were meant to be done at. Now, not so much.

[Zeitzone]

Does it really matter if a person learns how to play a job at level 20, or level 90? Exp could be removed entirely, and everyone could start at the max level, and that still wouldn't do any harm to the game.

Sure it whould harm the game, this is a RPG, not an Acion Adventure or Hack n Slash, slow leveling is a part of RPGs.

[Zagen]

slow leveling is a part of RPGs.
To be accurate slow leveling while progressing through the game's storyline is how it works in RPGs, the only thing that remotely applies to that anymore is the limit break quests for new players. In FFXI there is EXP grinding and there is storyline they both function for the most part independent of each other more so now that people who help aren't going to be capped at a given level for a lot of mission fights.

[Ceinwyn]

I really hope SE will save the game. It's a shame.
Abyssea will destroy all what the game stands for over time if they do nothing.
Classic areas will slowly die out, more and more, Ah's will be emptier than they're allready.
It'll be all about quick exp and rushing to Lv100.
They should not ever have implented Abysea on this way, made the game just worse.
If you can lv 30-100 that fast like you can in abysea right now, that's just wrong and game breaking.
Future will be peps, who dont know the simplest areas and have never heard of stuff like ZM or CoP.
What SE is doing right now is like crippling your own baby, just to earn some extra cash of the insurance /:
However, you will have more cash, but your baby won't be the same ever again and most likely
it wont have much happy time left on this planet, just sad!
I dont have anything against more sucribers, if this is what the players want.
However, strange interpretation of fun, my opinion. FFXI is not like WOW, totally opposite of WoW and that is fine.
It just hasnt the aspects, which make WoW fun with its fast lv progress, ffxi is based on his atmosphere and story, the friendships, the moments which stay in your mind forever...
But could we go slowly on it pls? Higher Lv Cap for Abys would help the game alot, more peps for low-mid lv partys,
still stuff to buy on the ah for this lv range and you could still enjoy the regular game.
The problem is, if people can hit lv 100 within a few weeks, they will do so, oh i forgot, they dont have a chioce either,
because theres no one left to party with but i guess you all expect of them to solo to 100 if they dont like to speedhack.
And Level-Sync is a lot better than abys, true, you have main camps too but its not as game breaking, good usual exp and you can exp somewhere else too, exp wont be much worse. Stays in no comparison to abys.
To say it simple. The whole Low-Lv-Mid-Lv Content will die, if nothing changes... what an end for such a great game, makes me cry )':

[magnius]

slow leveling is a part of RPGs.

No, it isn't. Just because you say doesn't make it true. Come on now. This might work with your LS, but when you deal with people outside of your LS you need to back it with some kind of truth.

[Greatguardian]

Zeitzone needs to stop bringing people over from the German forums to back them up in this thread. He/she threw away all of their credibility pages ago. Those arguments have all been smashed to pieces. If people are too lazy to go back and read even 5-10 pages back, I will not expend any effort refuting the same arguments for the 20th time.

[magnius]

your baby won't be the same ever again
Have you considered that had been SE's plans?


The whole Low-Lv-Mid-Lv Content will die
To make room for new content.

[Emitremmus]

It's the gap from 30-70 that bothers me most. Those are important levels to earn and find your playstyle for a given job in my opinion. By the time you are level 70 I think you have a good feel of how things work and grinding to 90 in 3 days is no big deal. You then have to learn how to pace yourself in an alliance, which is never a bad thing.

[RaenRyong]

Zeitzone, your quote earlier about Haste destroys any credibility you may have had.

[Ceinwyn]

Zeitzone needs to stop bringing people over from the German forums to back them up in this thread.If people are too lazy to go back and read even 5-10 pages back, I will not expend any effort refuting the same arguments for the 20th time.
Nobody brought me over and i back nobody up, i can speak for myself.
I'm sry, if i haven't read your post but i dont have the time to scroll through
1k pages, however if you want to quote it, i will read it for sure (:



Have you considered that had been SE's plans?
Not at all, but i hope they will do something for vana'diels health in the near future
to reduce the dmg which they have dealt.
The planet is dying... :x(couldn't resist)

[Zeitzone]

Zeitzone needs to stop bringing people over from the German forums to back them up in this thread. He/she threw away all of their credibility pages ago. Those arguments have all been smashed to pieces. If people are too lazy to go back and read even 5-10 pages back, I will not expend any effort refuting the same arguments for the 20th time.

I didnt bring a single person here, its just the ppl who come for themselves and agree, at last in some points to the thread opener. So stop spreading lies or trying to flame ppl. You see that there are more ppl same as me who like the from you so called "Grind".
Germans are still in german forum. I dont think that anyone beside me showed up here, maybe that alexanderrr girl. But as i remeber she was pro-leeching too. In Anti leeching and pro-grinding.
I like thick storylines with ingame scenes and slow level up as it is supposed to be in RPGs. As it has been for ages in FFXI, and as every RPG FF part has always been, a grinders game!
Thats why all this leeching destroys an Era, a very long grinding saga!
Mostly we grinders bought all the old parts of FF, becouse leechers whouldnt have the stamina to play such games. They whould give up after first 10hrs leveling and whould press away any text of the story SE had put much effort in.

[magnius]

I'm sry, if i haven't read your post but i dont have the time to scroll through
1k pages

Really though, if you haven't bothered to read up on a single concept, in this case, either the first FIVE TO TEN PAGES or the last 5-10 pages, means you really haven't put any thought in your assumptions...as seen when I asked if you have ever considered anything else other than your first reactive thought:


Not at all

It only makes your argument weak.

[Zeitzone]

Really though, if you haven't bothered to read up on a single concept, in this case, either the first FIVE TO TEN PAGES or the last 5-10 pages, means you really haven't put any thought in your assumptions...as seen when I asked if you have ever considered anything else other than your first reactive thought:

It only makes your argument weak.

The players argument ist still the same, stop your flaming propaganda just becouse he/she didnt read up the thread or some pages, the argument ist the same however she/he reads the posts before or not becouse the posts have nothing to do with her argument.
She whoould just recognize how stuborn thickheaded the leeching site in this thread is.

[magnius]

First off, thank you so much for finally using the Spellcheck feature. Christ.



I like thick storylines with ingame scenes and slow level up as it is supposed to be in RPGs. As it has been for ages in FFXI, and as every RPG FF part has always been, a grinders game!
Thats why all this leeching destroys an Era, a very long grinding saga!


Eras ends. It happens. It happens in history and it's happening now.

[Valaris]

lol raise lvl cap to 70+ and also put a restriction on mob xp outside of abyssea such as if a mob is attacking someone that is not in your party but is unclaimed killing it gives no xp at all and there you have it no leeching and smn burn leeching is dead as well. and im sure someone will say that opens up a way for someone to pull a whole zone and ruin xp for people. well they should make it a rule that its a way to get banned same as harrasment and so on. if that was done there would be no more leeching and people would finnaly have to earn what they get. alot of what i said might never happen but it would certainly fit it. :p

[Juxtaposition]

please restrict abyssea content to only level 90s ty they ruining my experiences

[magnius]

The players argument ist still the same, stop your flaming propaganda just becouse he/she didnt read up the thread or some pages, the argument ist the same however she/he reads the posts before or not becouse the posts have nothing to do with her argument.
She whoould just recognize how stuborn thickheaded the leeching site in this thread is.

I'm sorry, I have never flamed anyone. You only think I'm flaming because I don't agree with you.

I only tell people to read up on what they're arguing for because every single person who's made an argument against leeching has yet to make a strong argument. It doesn't really take much effort really, but they choose not to make any effort, as evident in Ceinwyn's post.

[Zeitzone]

First off, thank you so much for finally using the Spellcheck feature. Christ.

My german pc will not checkup english words.

[Valefor4life]

It's the gap from 30-70 that bothers me most. Those are important levels to earn and find your playstyle for a given job in my opinion. By the time you are level 70 I think you have a good feel of how things work and grinding to 90 in 3 days is no big deal. You then have to learn how to pace yourself in an alliance, which is never a bad thing.

People who grind to 90 in 3 days affect you how? If they suck that badly don't play with them, that's what kick is for. Do those those people offend you so much cause they level to 90 so fast and you did it the hard way? How is that smug up there on that high chair of yours?

[Sprieth]

People who grind to 90 in 3 days affect you how? If they suck that badly don't play with them, that's what kick is for. Do those those people offend you so much cause they level to 90 so fast and you did it the hard way? How is that smug up there on that high chair of yours?

Here's what I understand so far from the "change the min level" people.
People who leech to 90 hurt pick up parties, the auction house and low level gear, partying in old areas, Vanilla parties, and empty low level areas. And most of all...

They make it so someone can be equal or better than them over the course of 2 weeks starting at level 1.

[Gunit]

or you know the whole thread was started as a joke? lol
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103316-The-Official-Forums-BG-Edition?p=4483708&highlight=#post4483708

[Zeitzone]

or you know the whole thread was started as a joke? lol
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103316-The-Official-Forums-BG-Edition?p=4483708&highlight=#post4483708

Worthless propaganda^^
Makeing threads to make the "raise access" thread look silly becouse they are beeing scared of loosing them leeching ground.

[Gunit]

scared? lol Don't think I am worried about it at all.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I guess I'll just have to leech everything before that happens.

[Nacht]

It's the gap from 30-70 that bothers me most. Those are important levels to earn and find your playstyle for a given job in my opinion. By the time you are level 70 I think you have a good feel of how things work and grinding to 90 in 3 days is no big deal. You then have to learn how to pace yourself in an alliance, which is never a bad thing.

From leveling WHM outside abyssea to 75, I learned not to cast curaga. Meriting RDM on colibri, I learned to cast curaga2 after someone non-retarded does a WS because it's more mp efficient if you hit 3 or more people.

In Abyssea, I learned that RDM can't heal for shit on big NMs, and WHM can cast curagas whenever they want. If a whm pulls hate, they have enough hp to survive while curing themselves, so rarely matters.

Funny how I learned a completely different play style in abyssea compared to grinding outside abyssea. It's not that difficult for decent players to pick up how to play their jobs even after leeching in abyssea.

I think the problem is that people need to pass a retardation test before they can enter abyssea. That way the retarded gimps who can't figure out how to play their jobs won't be able to leech in abyssea. By doing this, everyone (except the retards) will be happy.

[Greatguardian]

Worthless propaganda^^
Makeing threads to make the "raise access" thread look silly becouse they are beeing scared of loosing them leeching ground.

I have 7 90's, 6 of which I've had since WotG came out, and 2 of which I've had since ToAU came out. If I wanted to leech and get a Maat's Cap, I could and would have done so ages ago. I am garnering no personal benefit from leeching.

That said, you're ridiculous. Your arguments consist of nothing more than "This is right. This is moral. We need to do it this way or we'll be lost to the heathens." It's nothing but ironic coming from you. You're in no position to tell other people what is "right" for FFXI.

[Zeitzone]

scared? lol Don't think I am worried about it at all.

Date of first post and opening this thread: 08.03.11

Your BS talk on that page: 03-15-2011 10:12 AM

So any more stupid lies you want to say?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Date of first post and opening this thread: 08.03.11

Your BS talk on that page: 03-15-2011 10:12 AM

So any more stupid lies you want to say?Yup, this thread is 7 days older then BS. lol

[Gunit]

Date of first post and opening this thread: 08.03.11

Your BS talk on that page: 03-15-2011 10:12 AM

So any more stupid lies you want to say?
lol where did I say I was scared? I have yet to leech any job in abyssea other then some sub jobs. I couldn't care less if the level cap was changed. Do I think it should be changed? No but again Don't care.

[Greatguardian]

Yup, this thread is 7 days older then BS. lol

I think Gunit just mixed up the threads. The "Lower the cap" thread is the one he was referencing, and yes it was made as a joke response to this utterly worthless thread.

[Gunit]

Here's what I understand so far from the "change the min level" people.
People who leech to 90 hurt pick up parties, the auction house and low level gear, partying in old areas, Vanilla parties, and empty low level areas. And most of all...

They make it so someone can be equal or better than them over the course of 2 weeks starting at level 1.

I was replying to this post with the link to BG

[Nacht]

I think Gunit just mixed up the threads. The "Lower the cap" thread is the one he was referencing, and yes it was made as a joke response to this utterly worthless thread.

^This.

Both abyssea minimum level threads are more or less the same discussion anyway.

[Zeitzone]

I have 7 90's, 6 of which I've had since WotG came out, and 2 of which I've had since ToAU came out. If I wanted to leech and get a Maat's Cap, I could and would have done so ages ago. I am garnering no personal benefit from leeching.

That said, you're ridiculous. Your arguments consist of nothing more than "This is right. This is moral. We need to do it this way or we'll be lost to the heathens." It's nothing but ironic coming from you. You're in no position to tell other people what is "right" for FFXI.

But you too are not the one to tell them! How can you dare to say leeching is right?

But i know this game has been a antileech game for several years and all FF games are build on the old fashion RPG way.
So thats the standart of this serie.
So we do not let leeching destroy our game fun by make grinding look redicioleus.
Becouse leeching is redicioleus, leeching isnt RPG style!
Its for ppl with no stamina, ppl who cant do anything alone. Deffending themselves by senseless arguments why leeching is allright. If leeching is possible in such high amount as it is now, then leveling becomes absolutly wortless, we dont need 90 levels if we can leech those up in 2 weeks, then we just play an action adventure without any leveling.
What are 90 levels good for if you dont even recognize them becouse 10 of them get up in a row.

[Gunit]

^This.

Both abyssea minimum level threads are more or less the same discussion anyway.

No its this lol

Here's what I understand so far from the "change the min level" people.
People who leech to 90 hurt pick up parties, the auction house and low level gear, partying in old areas, Vanilla parties, and empty low level areas. And most of all...

They make it so someone can be equal or better than them over the course of 2 weeks starting at level 1.


or you know the whole thread was started as a joke? lol
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103316-The-Official-Forums-BG-Edition?p=4483708&highlight=#post4483708
but yeah both are the same discussion

[Tsukino_Kaji]

^This.

Both abyssea minimum level threads are more or less the same discussion anyway.Which shall now be merged into one super thread entitled "Go into abyssea at the level in which you feel most comfortable."

[Gunit]

Which shall now be merged into one super thread entitled "Go into abyssea at the level in which you feel most comfortable."

lol. why does my post need to be longer?

[Greatguardian]

But you too are not the one to tell them! How can you dare to say leeching is right?

But i know this game has been a antileech game for several years and all FF games are build on the old fashion RPG way.
So thats the standart of this serie.
So we do not let leeching destory our game fun by make grinding look redicioleus.
Becouse leeching is redicioleus, leeching isnt RPG style!
Its for ppl with no stamina, ppl who cant do anything alone. Deffending themselves by senseless arguments why leeching is allright. If leeching is possible in such high amount as it is now, then leveling becomes absolutly wortless, we dont need 90 levels if we can leech those up in 2 weeks, then we just play an action adventure without any leveling.
What are 90 levels good for if you dont even recognize them becouse 10 of them get up in a row.

Okay, seriously, I'm not trying to be ethnically insensitive but you need to slow down with your typing. I know English is not your first language, but it is extremely difficult to read your posts when you do not stop and proofread them.

Also, no, I'm not making any sort of judgment. SE has left leeching in the game. I am fine with it. If I was not fine with it, I would get over it. What I do not appreciate are people coming in demanding that SE change their game to suit their wants. If they raised the entry requirement? I'd get over it. You're the one threatening to quit, not me. I simply do not appreciate the way you and others talk down to everyone here, as if leeching makes people unworthy of playing FFXI.

If all the players with that attitude quit, I doubt anyone would miss them.

Edit: Protip, even the best players in the game don't have that sort of crap attitude.

[Valaris]

I think Gunit just mixed up the threads. The "Lower the cap" thread is the one he was referencing, and yes it was made as a joke response to this utterly worthless thread.

yeah but that thread also has you in it saying your going to come in here and troll lol

[Zeitzone]

The other thread is about BS to reduce access to level 1.
So that other thread is totaly senseless and noone takes it seriously, i wrote 1 coment there that im against it, and thats all. Even comming on a dumb idea like making a opossite meening wortless crap thread is BS for itself.
Sure there whould be any kind of responses to that bullshit, noone wants a level 1 entrance to Abyssea, wtf, why not a level 0 entrance. Hey why not starting the game directly in Abyssea beside of 10 Exp treasures.

[Nacht]

So we do not let leeching destory our game fun by make grinding look redicioleus.
Becouse leeching is redicioleus, leeching isnt RPG style!


So you never took a high level character in an rpg into a battle with a low level character to level them? When you play other Final Fantasy games, all your characters are -always- similar levels? When playing pokemon, you always carried around pokemon of the same level and never used a high level one to level up the lower ones?

Don't spread filthy lies about leeching having no place in RPGs

[Sanjurio]

But you too are not the one to tell them! How can you dare to say leeching is right?

But i know this game has been a anti-leech game for several years and all FF games are build on the old fashion RPG way.
So thats the standard of this series.
So we do not let leeching destroy our game fun by make grinding look ridiculous.
Because leeching is ridiculous, leeching isn't RPG style!
Its for ppl with no stamina, ppl who cant do anything alone. Defending themselves by senseless arguments why leeching is alright. If leeching is possible in such high amount as it is now, then leveling becomes absolutely worthless, we don't need 90 levels if we can leech those up in 2 weeks, then we just play an action adventure without any leveling.
What are 90 levels good for if you don't even recognize them because 10 of them get up in a row.

Sorry just the way this guy writes has been bugging the living hell out of me for the past day or so after reading his posts.
I mean hell I don't type that well most of the time but not as bad as him.

And it seems like you're making it seem like having a Lv90 character is good or something like a Trophy or some such idea, which is silly in itself.

[Gunit]

The other thread is about BS to reduce access to level 1.
So that other thread is totaly senseless and noone takes it seriously, i wrote 1 coment there that im against it, and thats all. Even comming on a dumb idea like making a opossite meening wortless crap thread is BS for itself.
Sure there whould be any kind of responses to that bullshit, noone wants a level 1 entrance to Abyssea, wtf, why not a level 0 entrance. Hey why not starting the game directly in Abyssea beside of 10 Exp treasures.

how is this thread any less of bullshit?

[Arconis]

I fully Support raising Cap to 70+ all leeching has done for the game is make old areas obsolete and baron of people no one party's anymore. What is point of MMO if your not out partying and meeting new people and friends. As Abyssea stands right now game has gotten stagnant no one does anything but goto Abyssea and leech as many jobs as they can to 90, whats the point so you can get Maat's Cap oh wow now that was challenging wasn't it not. Let bring the fun back to all areas (The World) in game not just Abyssea.

[Valaris]

O.O calm down zeitzone. getting mad and going off like that is just what the people your debating with want. dont give into your frustrations with them :)

[Zeitzone]

I simply do not appreciate the way you and others talk down to everyone here, as if leeching makes people unworthy of playing FFXI.

But thats the point, becouse leeching is not okey, it makes ppl unworthy to play this game, it makes them unworthy to play any RPG.
Leeching is not RPG way. RPG players do not leech.
I dont dislike the persons who are leeching, i dislike that they chose the way of leeching.
Becouse it isnt the way a RPG is meant to be played.

And i wish i had a program to overcheck my english writing, but i got noone.

[Gunit]

I fully Support raising Cap to 70+ all leeching has done for the game is make old areas obsolete and baron of people no one party's anymore. What is point of MMO if your not out partying and meeting new people and friends. As Abyssea stands right now game has gotten stagnant no one does anything but goto Abyssea and leech as many jobs as they can to 90, whats the point so you can get Maat's Cap oh wow now that was challenging wasn't it not. Let bring the fun back to all areas (The World) in game not just Abyssea.

Wouldn't that mean that they like leeching jobs and getting to 90? So lowering the cap would keep people happy?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

70+ would mean that I could start making money on silk thread again. lol
Either way, up, down or no change, it's all the same to me.

[Zeitzone]

So you never took a high level character in an rpg into a battle with a low level character to level them? When you play other Final Fantasy games, all your characters are -always- similar levels? When playing pokemon, you always carried around pokemon of the same level and never used a high level one to level up the lower ones?

Don't spread filthy lies about leeching having no place in RPGs

I never did, becouse thats cheating.

[Gunit]

But thats the point, becouse leeching is not okey, it makes ppl unworthy to play this game, it makes them unworthy to play any RPG.
Leeching is not RPG way. RPG players do not leech.
I dont dislike the persons who are leeching, i dislike that they chose the way of leeching.
Becouse it isnt the way a RPG is meant to be played.

And i wish i had a program to overcheck my english writing, but i got noone.

I think leeching is very big part of the game, has been around long before abyssea came out.

[jeffanddane]

I still stand with partying through the old way, you gain skill and knowledge on an ever changing platform of challenges and solutions to tons of problems . . . . What do you get from abyssea . . . . (I learned to key a chest 89243798527349 times. . . . . ) Please lvl entry to 70 XDDDDDD. Even if you say you learn nothing from normal partying because you do the same thing over and over and over again the fact is you don't do the same thing over an over again, not every party is the same not every party is perfect. It's the same way in RL practice means perfect my friend. Alot of people who do things outside abyssea usually go with the job they lvled from 1-75 normally because they got a full understanding of skills they had to repeatably use over and over and over again along with timing and precision. Being well seasoned on job shows quality in work which not saying that people who leech have no understanding of there job, they are just few and far between. Even back in the day there were people that didn't know what they were doing but they are not as common as they are now. Abyssea also caters to the lazy players the new comers also need to learn the way of FFXI and I am sorry there not going to learn leeching from 30-90 doing keys.

[Zeitzone]

Sorry just the way this guy writes has been bugging the living hell out of me for the past day or so after reading his posts.
I mean hell I don't type that well most of the time but not as bad as him.

And it seems like you're making it seem like having a Lv90 character is good or something like a Trophy or some such idea, which is silly in itself.

Well on some way its the reward of a long and hard RPG time, yes.
Same as when you play Pokemon you are proud to have reach the maximum level of your pokemon over a long time of battles. What meaning whould it have to get your Pokemon from level 1 to 100 in 1day. No fun, no Proud.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I think leeching is very big part of the game, has been around long before abyssea came out.I have personal PL'd them on many occasions long before TAU even existed.(No, the leecher wasn't the one fighting.) We've just found a new and exciting way to do it.

[Zeitzone]

I fully Support raising Cap to 70+ all leeching has done for the game is make old areas obsolete and baron of people no one party's anymore. What is point of MMO if your not out partying and meeting new people and friends. As Abyssea stands right now game has gotten stagnant no one does anything but goto Abyssea and leech as many jobs as they can to 90, whats the point so you can get Maat's Cap oh wow now that was challenging wasn't it not. Let bring the fun back to all areas (The World) in game not just Abyssea.

I absolutely agree

[Gunit]

then don't leech in abyssea and don't leech gear off other players. No one is making someone leech or not. If you want to level up the old way fine. Don't enter abyssea and don't level sync.

[Gunit]

I have personal PL'd them on many occasions long before TAU even existed.(No, the leecher wasn't the one fighting.) We've just found a new and exciting way to do it.

This ^ as well as all the endgame gear someone can leech off of an LS or group they are not needed.

[Dauntless]

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

[Nacht]

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

Someone's just going to make a new thread. You don't remember Krystal?

[Gunit]

I support this but really? 173 pages? I believe this thread needs to die.

but new people keep coming in and telling us their idea.

[Dauntless]

Someone's just going to make a new thread. You don't remember Krystal?

I thought she died off already >_>

[Greatguardian]

I thought she died off already >_>

There will always be someone to take up the Krystal mantle. If there wasn't, this thread would be 150 pages shorter.

[Nacht]

I thought she died off already >_>

Well I didn't mean Krystal was going to make a new thread. I meant someone else would, similar to how Krystal made useless thread after useless thread.

[Zeitzone]

then don't leech in abyssea and don't leech gear off other players. No one is making someone leech or not. If you want to level up the old way fine. Don't enter abyssea and don't level sync.

The old leeching was strongly limited, PL still keept the Pl outside pt and the Leecher needed to kill mobs by himself. Eighter no EXP. And the exp reward was low becouse you couldnt kill stronger mobs. Whould take too long.

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

[Sprieth]

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

[Nacht]

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

Saves time for leveling SJs. Who cares if someone knows how to play a job, if all they're going to use it for is as a SJ.

[Zagen]

Have the people who support raising the cap so that people are forced to exp the "old way" ever questioned why there is no one to exp with when trying to make an exp party for the "old way" style of exping?

Just a thought but maybe its cuz they like the new way :D

[Zeitzone]

There will always be someone to take up the Krystal mantle. If there wasn't, this thread would be 150 pages shorter.

Yeah you really wear that mantle perfectly, its suits you. For keeping the wrong idea that leeching is okey.

[Nacht]

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

Or... there's some gimpass character that can't do shit (Rydia when you first get her) who leeches along side other characters that do all the work.

[Gunit]

The old leeching was strongly limited, PL still keept the Pl outside pt and the Leecher needed to kill mobs by himself. Eighter no EXP. And the exp reward was low becouse you couldnt kill stronger mobs. Whould take too long.

Sure we enter Abyssea, but for gears, not to leech, and noone should be able to enter abyssea for leeching. Becouse you got nothing from that, just bad habits.

Anyways sleeptime for me, GN.

So you just enter abyssea to leech gear off other people? Its still leeching lol.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Or... there's some gimpass character that can't do shit (Rydia when you first get her) who leeches along side other characters that do all the work.

Don't worry though, she gets better. Unlike some idiots in Vana'diel.

[Zeitzone]

In pretty much every FF there's a small area/island that has high level mobs where you can level faster if you go and grind in that area. Isn't that what Abyssea is in a way? I mean I take 2 or 3 of my characters with 1 or 2 of my lower level guys and head to the island. The max level guys kill the mobs fast so the lower level chars can catch up, then go to a town, gear them up and get to the last boss. Would you rather sit around Coneria to level all your characters to the max?

Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.
And now really GN.

[Sprieth]

Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.
And now really GN.

wait so pretty much even if a party of 90 go there to merit it's still pure leeching?

[Zeitzone]

So you just enter abyssea to leech gear off other people? Its still leeching lol.

Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

Final goodnight, GF is waiting.

[Gunit]

It is very much leeching if you not helping the group and don't need to be there.

[Alkalinehoe]

please restrict abyssea content to only level 90s ty they ruining my experiences
LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[Zeitzone]

It is very much leeching if you not helping the group and don't need to be there.

If you dont help the group then gtfo the area, we need no afk ppl who dont do anything, you get warped out of any area from BLM if you do such a think, thats how it has been in FFXI all the time, you stand afk in Dynamis? D2 goodbye.

Ok GF is angry. Im off >.<

[Sprieth]

Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

Why bother playing anymore? If synching and abyssea is cheating then what else is left? Basically if I try to level at all I will be considered a cheater now. If you don't want the game to be updated play a offline FF while finding a FF chat forum. That way the game will never change and you won't have to worry.

[Nacht]

Doing something togehter on your true level to get a reward is teamwork and is no leeching.
Beeing a level 30 openeing chest, or getting synched up to 90 while orginaly beeing 30 is cheating.

Final goodnight, GF is waiting.

As a linkshell we have an unstated rule regarding Empyrean weapons from Tahrongi Canyon. If you want one there, you're going to AoE burn for chests and most of the linkshell is going to leech a job.

As a team, there are several of us opening the contents of chests for keyitems while other members of the team focus on killing shit. By working as a team, we maximize the number of chests we obtain. If we were to do this on a level 90 job, it's unfair that we get no reward (from exp chests) for helping our linkshell members obtain their empyrean weapons while we take on the incredibly important task of holding key items for them.

[Chocobits]

will say this though. I think its better for the new player if abyssea is 70 or 75, that could be part of the reason of lack of new people, even though we been getting lack of new people for a while.
I think part of the fact that there's no new people is because:

A) SE never aggressively marketed FFXI
B) SE Flailed with FFXIV and brought shame to their name as an MMO provider (because ppl don't understand the roman numerals and think only of it as "Final Fantasy Online" and how they're hearing how much that game sucks!
C) The few people on other MMO forums that know the difference between XI and XIV blast XI for its primitive graphics.
D) Without the PS2 holding us back, we could have had a complete graphical overhaul similar to what WoW had done (I guess, never played it after that but i heard it had better 3-D graphics or something)
E) People defending to the death their 640x480 Obsolete2 consoles.
F) Japan is a ripe target for natural disasters. It's been pointed out in other forums that interruption or discontinuation of service was always a possibility there (more so than in most other places).
G) SE is STILL not marketing their online game. In fact, I wonder if they aren't secretly trying to brush XIV under the rug and starting a new MMO. XIV is like Windows Vista - it had such a horrible start that no matter what M$ did to turn it around (and it eventually didn't turn out to be a TERRIBLE OS), nobody wanted anything to do with it because of its reputation. SE is lying low and hoping they're more or less forgotten by the current gen of MMO players. Then when they're forgotten, they'll pop out like they're a completely new company and blow the onlookers away with gorgeous gfx, non laggy controls, great story, but (and this is 12 years from now) you STILL won't be able to Alt+Tab in fullscreen mode without crashing the game. Which brings me to H:
H) Final Fantasy Online games are the only MMOs or any kind of DX games that simply CANNOT be Alt-Tabbed out of in fullscreen mode. Not because of technical difficulties. Not because of lack of programming skill. This was intentionally added to the game 8 1/2 years ago to force monopolization of the computer so that cheat programs couldn't be manipulated in the background (is what I assume anyway, else WHY would anyone do this?!). This practice not only didn't stop cheats from being developed, it hastened their development as people that wanted a sizable Window and Alt-Tab banded together to make a wrapper for FFXI. Windower opened the door to all kinds of bots, hacks and cheats. Flash forward 8 years:
SE releases its next MMO - which still can't Alt-Tab without crashing.
I) Nevermind how much SE bowed and scraped after the fact, they completely ignored the cries of the hacking victims from '07. They blameshifted on people that used gilbuying sites without knowing the situation - that legit FFXI info sites (as well as many other MMOs) had their ad banner servers compromised to deliver drive-by exploits. I blasted them in a post for their Official Statement on the matter, which I summed up as this:
We have received reports that a popular third-party FINAL FANTASY XI website had been infecting customers with malicious software...

We suggest that our customers read up on precautionary measures they can take to ensure the safety of their information online.

Square Enix, a company who cares... about your money.

Work on all of the above and stop developing for hardware that is already on its way to extinction and releasing halfassed games, then maybe some new people will want to join!

[Greatguardian]

People who think that the PS2 (or 360, or PS3) is what keeps FFXI from having "omg uber graphix" never cease to amaze me.

Protip: No.

[blowfin]

Well you low level chars could get killed by 1 strike in that FF part of the area.
And its grinding.
Abyssea is no grinding, its pure leeching with overstated exp reward for level 30.
Huge difference.

I know I`m late to the party but I`m amazed that people keep regurgitating the same nonsense about this...

A lot of people like leeching in Abyss for the following (but not limited to) reasons
-It's a sub they want to level, equipping it is a waste of time and money
-They have the skills capped from other jobs, traditional leveling is a waste of time and money
-Leveling jobs to 90 gets boring after several jobs

Why must you all try to block the enjoyment of people who prefer it for the above reasons? I don`t understand

The `it makes bad players` argument has been pointed out as a total fallacy several times in this thread and is no longer valid as an argument, sorry.

The solutions to this perceived `problem` are these:
-Don`t allow an excess of leechers in your groups (If you don`t make the groups then stop complaining because you haven`t actually tried to fix the `problem`)
-Don`t exp in abyss. There are plenty of ways to make EXP outside. News flash: you don`t need a full 6 man party to pull in reasonable EXP in a group.

Raising the level cap in Abyss will do two things, and not much more:
-Annoy the hell out of a lot of people
-Make a lot of people quit

Both of those things are far, far worse for the game than the perceived issues stemming from leeching, which people are fabricating for their own devices really.

[Yarly]

People who think that the PS2 (or 360, or PS3) is what keeps FFXI from having "omg uber graphix" never cease to amaze me.

Protip: No.

So true, the amount of stupid is pure entertainment.

[Khiinroye]

Leeching means you are contributing nothing, like the lv 70+ people who stand around at the dominion ops NPC. If your xp group is good, keying the chests keeps you busy the whole time, and you're spending 50,000 cruor per stack of keys, which you can go through very fast. Therefore, if you're lv 30 or lv 90, you're contributing the same thing, and you're your true level, too!

Pre-abyssea "leeching", the leech just stood in korroloka tunnel or in an xp party and did nothing. In abyssea, the leech has to actively contribute to the group. You could also level jobs over time via xp scrolls and campaign ops, without fighting a single mob.

The pro-increase arguments have been debunked again and again, only to be repeated with an "its cheating, its wrong, it kills low level stuff that about 10 people want to do!" Most of the playerbase has done the grind, several times, and don't want to go through with it for the 5th or 8th or 12th time.

If people wanted to do low level content, you'd see shouts for eco-warrior or garrison.

SE has taken a stance on grinding before. Its called the April 21, 2005 update.