Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[Komori]

Just like SE fixed SMN burns? SE is not going to go against the majority for the minority and german players. It goes to "Should I displease the majority and lose all of their money and settle for the smallest monthly gain possible and enforce "justice"? Or should I keep most people happy and not worry about the small money loss from the minority who isn't happy with people having a choice"?

[Ica]

Leeching is not Leveling, its cheating and thats why SE need to prohibide it.

If it was cheating, don't you think SE would have put a stop to it by now? It has been this way for several months...

[RaenRyong]

Well we do not care if you dislike the old way of expeing, it was and will be the only correct way, leeching never was correct and never will be and thats our statement and thats why SE will sooner or later raise the cap, whatever you say will not stop them.

It is only incorrect to YOU. SE have said nothing, nada, zilch, zero to suggest otherwise - has anyone ever been warned or banned for leeching? Can you find me an SE quote stating that leeching is wrong? What do you think about Astral Burning? Protip: that's allowed as per SE rules and people disrupting it actually received disciplinary action.

SE set the cap at 30 and chose to both place a temporary exp cap on lower level players while allowing them to receive full exp from chests. The entire system is designed so lower levels begin with a penalty but can level that way - it's most likely completely intentional. The Dominion Ops actually scale to a minimum level, suggesting SE encourages the use of these methods for exping.


I never had problems to get a party with any kind of job. So there must we have been the mistake by your way of play.

75 cap BLM/THF/PLD/DRK/BST/RNG/SMN/BLU/PUP/SCH had no problem at all getting invites? The only reason you'd typically take one of these jobs was because you lacked the favoured ones.


You are just overstate the problems of old and only correct way of leveling.
Leeching is not Leveling, its cheating and thats why SE need to prohibide it.

Again, only to you. SE have said nothing of the sort. Not only does it make you a complete idiot to assert a completely incorrect point like this, but it makes you something else - a poser.

[Ica]

Just like SE fixed SMN burns?

SE fixed SMN burns by letting people go into abyssea at 30 and leech. xD

[Zeitzone]

You care too much about exping!

Exping is just a means to an end, a process by which you can then play the meat of the content. If exping is a huge part of the game to you, you're just a level grinder. That's a perfectly valid way of playing, but for the sake of most of us who enjoy playing the game rather than grinding experience, do us a favour and stop trying to impose your views on us.

Thanks.

Why do you think endgame is called endgame? Yes becouse you do it at the "End of the game" after alot of time of playing and leveling. Not: you enter the game play 2 weeks to Level 30 and go into Endgame Abyssea and get up to 90.
Anyways you can still do it, just without leeching jobs up, a entrance level 70 will make all resolved.
No more leeching and you can have fun in Abyssea, too bad if you dont have a job 70 then but thats life, thats why you need to play a while before you can reach endgame.

[Vivik]

We dont do it becouse we are no poser, Leechers are posers.
And thats why you try to change the subject.
Becouse if we take everything away from your acc you got trough leeching there will not much be left.

Actually I have never leeched. I just don't think that it's important to bitch and complain about raising the cap to try and make myself feel special.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this thread is nothing more than lazy people complaining about lazy people. People who are too lazy to put together a party find themselves in parties with leeches. These same people bitch non stop in alli about it.

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

[RaenRyong]

Try an argument that doesn't use your own arbitrary definitions. Leeching is not cheating and there is no "proper" way to level. Choice is just that.

The game you want to play and the game 99% of other people enjoy playing are not the same game. You are the minority and should stop trying to impose your views on us.

[RaenRyong]

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

But but how other people exp influences my gameplay so greatly! How dare people be able to enjoy all of the jobs they want to play?!

[Zeitzone]

Just like SE fixed SMN burns? SE is not going to go against the majority for the minority and german players. It goes to "Should I displease the majority and lose all of their money and settle for the smallest monthly gain possible and enforce "justice"? Or should I keep most people happy and not worry about the small money loss from the minority who isn't happy with people having a choice"?

And what makes you so sure that you are majority?
As i can see its only in the English forum 3-8 ppl yelling for constant level 30 Abyssea, sure the leechers yell mostly if it goes for loosing them fundation of playing.

The german Forum ist neraly all against leeching and a raise for the level, and thats around 20 players just in the forum.
On my server my whole LS is against leeching, and we got another 50 ppl.
And im sure that if SE makes a survey there will be enough responses, even i bet that the leechers then again will yell mostly becouse even they are only 10 they write more than 100 non-leechers, becouse it goes for them foundation.
We need no leechers into the game, gtfo the game.

Vote yes for Abyssea access above level 70!

[Zeitzone]

Actually I have never leeched. I just don't think that it's important to bitch and complain about raising the cap to try and make myself feel special.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, this thread is nothing more than lazy people complaining about lazy people. People who are too lazy to put together a party find themselves in parties with leeches. These same people bitch non stop in alli about it.

Simple solution: If you don't like the level 30 level restriction then start your own Abyssea groups and don't invite the level 30s. If you are too lazy to make your own party than shut the hell up about it.

Vivik, i have no problem with finding pts, i have a problem with leechers, there is no place for them into the game.
And it hurt noone of the player who want to do abyssea if you raise the Access to level 70. It only hurts the Leechers, and you can only hit the right one in that bag.

[RaenRyong]

Your LS is a social LS, isn't it?

[Vivik]

Vivik, i have no problem with finding pts, i have a problem with leechers, there is no place for them into the game.
And it hurt noone of the player who want to do abyssea if you raise the Access to level 70. It only hurts the Leechers, and you can only hit the right one in that bag.

Obviously if SE made it so people level 30+ can be in Abyssea, there is a place for them in the game. Lets be clear and just say; there is no place for them in your game, because after all you are the minority.

[Zeitzone]

Your LS is a social LS, isn't it?

Why are you going out of th subject, since when does it matter if its a social ls, a level ls, a HNM ls,....

[Vivik]

Why are you going out of th subject, since when does it matter if its a social ls, a level ls, a HNM ls,....

Because most social LS are full of amateurs.

[RaenRyong]

Because a social LS typically (not meaning to stereotype, but generally) has a demographic of players whose ingame life tends to be little more than exping. To them, of course Abyssea leeching is going to seem like a "cop out" because it's the only thing they do in the game. Players tend to be very low tier with horrendous gear etc.

The game should not be changed for a small but vocal minority who happen to think exping is the only thing in it.

[Zeitzone]

Obviously if SE made it so people level 30+ can be in Abyssea, there is a place for them in the game. Lets be clear and just say; there is no place for them in your game, because after all you are the minority.

Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.
Thats why they are trying everything to get ppl back into other areas, atm they have no luck, that why it will result in a access for Abyssea above level 70.

[Zeitzone]

Because a social LS typically (not meaning to stereotype, but generally) has a demographic of players whose ingame life tends to be little more than exping. To them, of course Abyssea leeching is going to seem like a "cop out" because it's the only thing they do in the game. Players tend to be very low tier with horrendous gear etc.

The game should not be changed for a small but vocal minority who happen to think exping is the only thing in it.

Well, you guessed wrong, it is an Abyssea LS.
Yes we do Abyssea, as i sayd we are not against Abyssea, just against leeching.

[Vivik]

Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.

So now it's just a grand conspiracy by SE? I see lol...

[RaenRyong]

Subjective and arbitrary arguments again. Use a line of reasoning which isn't "it is wrong" and instead "I think it's wrong because ---". There are some valid problems with the Abyssea exp system and I'm not claiming it's perfect, but if you feel or SE feels they want to stop it, they should make the alternatives better than it - not force you into doing the alternatives instead.

As for the minority issue, so far the most vocal posters have been Naturebeckles, Krystal and yourself. There have been a few other people but nothing huge.

I'm going to restate my challenge:

if you have a serious problem with Abyssea leeching and exping this way, irrelevant of whether Abyssea-age FFXI or Abyssea-age FFXI is best in your mind (ie ignore everything but the exping front) and you consider yourself above average, participating in events which are not exping on a regular basis and are fairly accomplished - please post. As a generalisation, nobody I have seen who isn't gimp or who doesn't see exping as the main focus of the game find a problem with this.

Arrogance? Yes. I am waiting for someone to answer my challenge with evidence though.

EDIT:


Well, you guessed wrong, it is an Abyssea LS.

Abyssea LS and Social LS are not mutually exclusive in today's day and age. There are always a huge number of terrible players in Abyssea killing things which are not experience points mobs.

[Vivik]

it is an Abyssea LS.


Just another name for a social LS.

[Byrth]

There are plenty of people that don't really contribute even when they are on a level 90 job.

Read this and believe it:
* Abyssea parties require at most three DDs.

[hiko]

And there you show us the gimp noob you are, dont you get it? Its not how much jobs or what kind of gear you have that shows if you are a noob. Every noob can have good gear in Abyssea leeching.
Showing your char here makes it look like a gimp noob who bargs with its char.
And you are changing the subject becouse you cant argue against the point that we just want to change the entrance level for Abyssea to 70+, becouse then you lose all your substanze and show us that you are only against it becouse you are a leech who doesnt want to play the old fashion way.
I have no reason to show my char here becouse i dislike such arrogant exibithion.
I got two accounts and can even PL myself but i mostly dislike that becouse i prefer to level in nice pts.

I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

[RaenRyong]

Swapping gear is for posers. It is not RIGHT. SE will surely change it soon.

[Vivik]

I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

I swap gear with my friends all the time, damnit!

[Zeitzone]

So now it's just a grand conspiracy by SE? I see lol...

Oh horrible of me to think so.
Sure, big cooperations lasiting on greed and money never make conspiracy(hidden changes)/strategies to sell them product better. Sure the guy who sells the toilet paper doesnt make the hot chilli that burns out your intestines so you need to use half of the toilet roll.
Im very sorry that i ever thought of SE could want to make money.
/sarcasm

[hiko]

Yet again there is no prove that i am the minority, its just in this forum so becouse leechers lose evertything if they change it back. SE made a mistake, it is not the first time, eighter they did it becouse they want to kill FFXI themselves for the sake of FFXIV or they did it accidently and will remove it sooner or later. Since there is a new leading head to the team they did alot mistakes, alot of the new AF3 look cheap like someone from Silkroad had created them, the own fashion style of FFXI got lost, and same goes for gameplay, the old Gameplay got lost becouse they made a radical change.
Thats why they are trying everything to get ppl back into other areas, atm they have no luck, that why it will result in a access for Abyssea above level 70.

you are not minority = lot of players dont like abyssea leeching and want old style pt = you can easily build old school pt

is that the case? no, =you are minority

[Zeitzone]

I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?

I swap my gear with macros, but not with other players, depending on what kind of swap you thought.
Sometimes i transfer gear from my account A to account B.

[Zeitzone]

Abyssea at level 30 is wrong becouse:
-it makes 90% the regular areas empty
-it malfuntions the AH. Check low level Armors
-it partly decarases the number of good players
-it makes the game basic only on a simple one way stroke
-all ppl will have all jobs 90, redicioleus, you have to chose a Job, and then next one, and not offer all. Its just too easy to get all Jobs 90 but still being bad at them and not even having the skills.
-it decarases the quality of the game compared to how it has been before(but this is my opionion)

[Vivik]

Oh horrible of me to think so.
Sure, big cooperations lasiting on greed and money never make conspiracy(hidden changes)/strategies to sell them product better. Sure the guy who sells the toilet paper doesnt make the hot chilli that burns out your intestines so you need to use half of the toilet roll.
Im very sorry that i ever thought of SE could want to make money.
/sarcasm

Do you also wear tin foil hats?

[Zeitzone]

you are not minority = lot of players dont like abyssea leeching and want old style pt = you can easily build old school pt

is that the case? no, =you are minority

You missed the Point, i got no problems to get a party setup together, im against leeching in any form.
So I am against abyssea access at level 30.

[Zeitzone]

Do you also wear tin foil hats?

Yeah and i follow the daily radion message, maybe a alien will nock in, are you an alien? /sarcasm

[Vivik]

Yeah and i follow the daily radion message, maybe a alien will nock in, are you an alien? /sarcasm

Why do you feel the need to put /sarcasm at the end of some of your posts and not /whining at the end of others?

[Zeitzone]

Why do you feel the need to put /sarcasm at the end of some of your posts and not /whining at the end of others?

This makes no sense. How far do you want to walk away from the main subject anyway?

[RaenRyong]

Abyssea at level 30 is wrong becouse:
-it makes 90% the regular areas empty

Bring back exp, main change is East Ronfaure [S] and Bhaflau Thickets won't be empty. Maybe RARELY other areas. EDIT: I suppose Qufim Island and Korroloka Tunnel too to be fair!


-it malfuntions the AH. Check low level Armors

If you want people to craft you low level armor, just pay for it in such a way that it is profitable for them. Crafters are after profits. You shouldn't have trouble getting stuff crafted.


-it partly decarases the number of good players

Impossible to prove.


-it makes the game basic only on a simple one way stroke

What does this mean?


-all ppl will have all jobs 90, redicioleus, you have to chose a Job, and then next one, and not offer all. Its just too easy to get all Jobs 90 but still being bad at them and not even having the skills.

That's your view (and how many people do you know who have all jobs 90 despite having the ability to nowadays?). Skill point already addressed as impossible to prove.


-it decarases the quality of the game compared to how it has been before(but this is my opionion)

The only "quality" it decreases is exping, the most tedious and mind-numbing part of the game. It actually enhances general playability.

[Zeitzone]

How far away is the cliff you need to leap off of?

Its in the other direction. in this direction is only a long desert you will get lost in and die becouse you will use up all your breath against me.

[Vivik]

Its in the other direction. in this direction is only a long desert you will get lost in and die becouse you will use up all your breath against me.

You seem to be confused with torture and fun.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

The change would not be simple, and it would not go back to the "old way" as the time it takes.

Abyssea would be raised to 70/75, and at the same time EXP outside would be adjusted again, along with adding some of the things that make Abyssea nice, more chest drops, and adding more gil and EXP to the chests as well. It would get people to level in the old areas again, and since ExP would still be past (but not as fast as abyssea) people would also look at going to places they used to no go. EXP parties would be wide spread again, and so would lower level gear, and many other things that Abyssea screwed up.

[Byrth]

If I ever did leech jobs, it would be for Maat's cap (like 7 jobs mostly 45->65) for unstacked Dancing Edge and Jeuno Warp and then maybe Thief to 90 so I have all three jobs that can use Twashtar.

I kind of doubt that anyone would miss having me play jobs I'm unenthusiastic about in their parties.

[Zeitzone]

Bring back exp, main change is East Ronfaure [S] and Bhaflau Thickets won't be empty. Maybe RARELY other areas. EDIT: I suppose Qufim Island and Korroloka Tunnel too to be fair!

Its not hard to make pts, the point is there is no seekers anymore, the areas are empty, if you go in there and /see all you get a 0 on most areas, or maybe a 1-2 becouse someone is camping a NM.


If you want people to craft you low level armor, just pay for it in such a way that it is profitable for them. Crafters are after profits. You shouldn't have trouble getting stuff crafted.

Well all answers are just poor excuses for you to advance leeching becouse it will not affect crafters profit if you change the access to abyssea to 70, it will just make more armors for low levels be requested becouse they do not leech anymore and need them to be able to level. Crafters will earn more money and AH will be alive again. AH is a part of FFXI, we dont want cheap game Bazzaring like in FFXIV.



Impossible to prove.

Impossible to prove but everywhere recognizable


What does this mean?

It makes the game monotone. Same as Guild Wars or WoW there is only one big main target left, in the past we had multiple same good targets: Assault, Dynamis and Limbus, now those three and others lost any use becouse everything is runing into Abyssea.


That's your view (and how many people do you know who have all jobs 90 despite having the ability to nowadays?). Skill point already addressed as impossible to prove.

Many ppl got leeched up jobs, everyone of them is one who has at last not earned level 90 jobs


The only "quality" it decreases is exping, the most tedious and mind-numbing part of the game. It actually enhances general playability.

Thats just your opinion, mine is that this game was always perfect playable.

[Zeitzone]

You seem to be confused with torture and fun.

Ill do nearly anything to silent you draging this posts away from the main subject. Even if its abandoning you in the desert.

[Neisan_Quetz]

Even if one could level all jobs (I only know one person who is considering this and it probably is for maat's cap for jobs that don't get better in the head slot since he didn't buy MKD) I doubt many people will because not all jobs interest them. Aside from Rdm most jobs don't pique my interest but I used to say if I leveled a DD job, it would be war, and so I eventually got war up to cap and geared it and skilled it up (still working on scythe/GS/Polearm for WS quests, high enough for Red procs). Whm I leveled because Rdm wasn't a good healer anymore in abyssea for most NMs and Much of the gear Rdm uses Whm can as well.
Gearing a job and knowing how to play it doesn't take all that much work for people who care about the job, people who are lazy are going to be lazy and gear/play badly regardless of how fast they get exp. People seem to somehow forget all the people wearing absolute crap at level 75 cap... The only thing Abyssea changed is it made it easier for lazy people to get exp, it didn't make people lazy. If there are so many people as you claim that don't like leeching, you should have no problem putting a group together from shouting for those people right? And as an added bonus, you'll have the best camps all to yourself now!



There are plenty of people that don't really contribute even when they are on a level 90 job.

Read this and believe it:
* Abyssea parties require at most three DDs.
One DD with good atma + 2 others to take over when they die from tanking everything?



I wont ask you to show your char, I'll just ask you a basic question:

DO you swap gear?
I swap gear with my friends all the time, damnit!



It's gear not a hooker.

[Vivik]

Ill do nearly anything to silent you draging this posts away from the main subject. Even if its abandoning you in the desert.

Needs to be dragged away so it gets locked. Nothing is gonna bring it to 70+ and the sooner you realize that the sooner we can move on to important changes in the game.

[Vivik]

It's gear not a hooker.

I am a hooker.

[Ica]

Impossible to prove but everywhere recognizable

Players with no skill/knowledge were recognizable years ago when the cap was 75, there was no abyssea, or even level sync.

It's a cheap argument, this cannot be blamed on the ability to leech.

[Zeitzone]

Needs to be dragged away so it gets locked. Nothing is gonna bring it to 70+ and the sooner you realize that the sooner we can move on to important changes in the game.

This post inst about other important changes in the game, this post is for raising access to above level 70, and i vote YES.

[Zeitzone]

Even if one could level all jobs (I only know one person who is considering this and it probably is for maat's cap for jobs that don't get better in the head slot since he didn't buy MKD) I doubt many people will because not all jobs interest them. Aside from Rdm most jobs don't pique my interest but I used to say if I leveled a DD job, it would be war, and so I eventually got war up to cap and geared it and skilled it up (still working on scythe/GS/Polearm for WS quests, high enough for Red procs). Whm I leveled because Rdm wasn't a good healer anymore in abyssea for most NMs and Much of the gear Rdm uses Whm can as well.
Gearing a job and knowing how to play it doesn't take all that much work for people who care about the job, people who are lazy are going to be lazy and gear/play badly regardless of how fast they get exp. People seem to somehow forget all the people wearing absolute crap at level 75 cap... The only thing Abyssea changed is it made it easier for lazy people to get exp, it didn't make people lazy. If there are so many people as you claim that don't like leeching, you should have no problem putting a group together from shouting for those people right? And as an added bonus, you'll have the best camps all to yourself now!



One DD with good atma + 2 others to take over when they die from tanking everything?




It's gear not a hooker.

Well first they leech unbeloved jobs to 75 for maat cap, then they go Abyssea and see that they want you another job 90 and another, and another, end of the story is you level them all to 90 without even knowing them.
Ppl whould do that just to not waste the exp from trasures, thats why they whould come with jobs they dont even want to play in Abyssea, just to have them 90.

[Zeitzone]

Players with no skill/knowledge were recognizable years ago when the cap was 75, there was no abyssea, or even level sync.

It's a cheap argument, this cannot be blamed on the ability to leech.

But the number of them has increase. And leeching is no ability, its cheating.

[Ica]

But the number of them has increase. And leeching is no ability, its cheating.

Then why aren't all the leeches banned?

[Sasukeuchiha]

I still do not get why people complaining so much. Stop people from abyssea leaching people will go back to summon burning. What next they change abyssea people will complain about summon burning.

[Zeitzone]

Then why aren't all the leeches banned?

Becouse SE cant bann ppl for leeching, but they looking for ways to resolve that matter.

[Zeitzone]

I still do not get why people complaining so much. Stop people from abyssea leaching people will go back to summon burning. What next they change abyssea people will complain about summon burning.

Summonburing was a problem too, but at last not that huge as Abysseas low access.
Sure there will be changes needed too.

[Vivik]

Becouse SE cant bann ppl for leeching, but they looking for ways to resolve that matter.

Really? Show me where it says that anywhere.

[Ica]

Becouse SE cant bann ppl for leeching, but they looking for ways to resolve that matter.

How do you know?

[RaenRyong]

Zeitzone, until proven otherwise you are gimper than most leeches. Horribly gimp people were everywhere before and after Abyssea.

You can make parties in other zones, but why would you? You complain people only use Abyssea for exp (9 zones max) but people only used approximately 4 zones max to exp in before (and fighting a lot less diverse mob families at that).

[Zeitzone]

What do you think why they raise exp outside of Abyssea? Why they put no limit on FoV.
Becouse they dislike the leeching as much as i do. Becouse a game only played in one area will not stail alive for long, ppl get bored fast, new ppl are left alone in empty areas. Atm they try it that way, if they see no good results they will change access for Abyssea.

[Komori]

No. No I think they just did that for people of your mind frame. Otherwise they would have already bumped up the level restriction on abyssea when they doubled EXP outside of it.

Don't infer what SE is doing unless you actually here them saying they're stopping leeching. People get banned for trying to stop people from leeching or getting quick EXP. Such as taking away mobs.

[RaenRyong]

Assumption.

I could argue that they did that so you can get to 30 quicker to exp in Abyssea to 90. It would be equally backed up by evidence.

[Vivik]

What do you think why they raise exp outside of Abyssea? Why they put no limit on FoV.
Becouse they dislike the leeching as much as i do. Becouse a game only played in one area will not stail alive for long, ppl get bored fast, new ppl are left alone in empty areas. Atm they try it that way, if they see no good results they will change access for Abyssea.

I still have yet to see a link where it says they don't like leeching.

[Zeitzone]

Zeitzone, until proven otherwise you are gimper than most leeches. Horribly gimp people were everywhere before and after Abyssea.

You can make parties in other zones, but why would you? You complain people only use Abyssea for exp (9 zones max) but people only used approximately 4 zones max to exp in before (and fighting a lot less diverse mob families at that).

We leveled in alot more then 4 areas, wtf you talk about, first pt startet in Dunes and alternatives like close to mhaura, other areas of leveling were quifim, sauromogue champaign, the sanctuary of zi'tah, the boyahda tree, kuftal tunnel, sandcaves, korolka tunnel, la thaine plateau, the Junge/both areas, and and and....
Nearly every second reagion has been unsed for leveling.

Abd what do you want to get proven poser?

[Zeitzone]

I still have yet to see a link where it says they don't like leeching.

As if SE whould ever directly testify what they think, wake up, they are a big cooperation, statements are dangerous for them, thats why you still cant marry the same gender in this game.

[Zeitzone]

Assumption.

I could argue that they did that so you can get to 30 quicker to exp in Abyssea to 90. It would be equally backed up by evidence.

That argue is wrong becouse then they whould only change it in areas where you level till 30.

[RaenRyong]

Prove that you're not gimp.

And that's funny, I seem to remember most people doing Qufim >> East Ronfaure [S] >> Bhaflau Thickets towards the end of the pre-Abyssea era, since people got sick of grinding.


Sadly that argue is wrong becouse then they whould only change it in areas where you level till 30.

Not necessarily; all FoV books being uncapped vs FoV books to level 30 being uncapped does not hinder levelling to 30 at all. This is to say that uncapping all FoV books does not make it harder to get to 30 than uncapping just the ones up to 30.


As if SE whould ever directly testify what they think, wake up, they are a big cooperation, statements are dangerous for them, thats why you still cant marry the same gender in this game.

Same sex marriage is a political issue, this is strictly a game mechanics one. They do show their stance on certain aspects of game mechanics, eg summoner burning which they condoned, Ironclad pinning which they condemned (and also implicitly condoning pinning), Wall of Justice pinning which they condemned, Souleater BloodWeapon zerging AV which they condemned implictly, even as recently as freezing your brew timer which is (currently) intentional.

[Vivik]

As if SE whould ever directly testify what they think, wake up, they are a big cooperation, statements are dangerous for them, thats why you still cant marry the same gender in this game.

Nice way to deflect responsibility and not back up what you say. Anything you have to say is now irrelevant.

[Byrth]

One DD with good atma + 2 others to take over when they die from tanking everything?

If you were going to single-target kill a monster population, 3 is the maximum number of DDs that any group of pullers/monster can really support. If you're going to AoE kill, you can do it solo or duo but having 3 Cleaves, Aeolian Edges, Aerojas, whatever go off at the same time makes it pretty much entirely safe. 3 DDs, maybe 3 pullers, a healer or two, and a bard, then enough leeches that chests always get keyed. Camp in the middle of any big agroing/linking monster population and try to avoid running out of monsters to kill.

Anyway, point is that maximum xp/hr is reached with groups far smaller than 18. There's no known penalty for bringing leechers along and keying chests is a cruor-drain so why not let people trade cruor for xp on their lowbie jobs?

[Karbuncle]

If people wanted to exp Outside abyssea they would. I Don't think you people are looking hard enough. Or you people are just drooling over Nostalgia if 8k/hr Crab parties.

Every time some new Exp-Craze comes out that makes Exping Simpler, Theres always a large group of people who whine about it bringing to idiots to the game, Or its ruining normal Exp parties. Its not entirely that bad.

Yes, Your opinion is that Abyssea having a level 30 Minimum on it is bad, But theres a lot more people who enjoy being able to take the boredom of leveling a job from 30 > 70 through normal means.

Now don't start thinking something stupid like 'hur hur he must have leveled all his jobs in Abyssea'. No... I got a Maat's Cap before Abyssea, I never even SMN burned a single job. I leveled all of them through MMM or Traditional Exp. It was slow, and i know most people wouldn't enjoy it. And i certainly would not force it on anyway.

The difference between The Opinion of this thread, and say Viviks, Is that Viviks isn't trying to force his opinions on how EXP parties should be run on everyone regardless. The idea of raising level min. in abyssea from 30 to 70 is forcing your opinion on exp down everyones throat, and taking away their ability to chose for themselves. To be quite frank, Its not going to happen because of that reason. I'm sorry if you do not agree with my opinion on that.

But, The Way it is now, People can chose at level 30 rather they would like old-style exp, Or To try and get an Abyssea Leech. Me and my brother Recently leveled BLU + THF Together, Within just the last ~month. We exped Normally all the way until level 63/64 Together, Traditional Out-Of-Abyssea-Exp parties. All we did was build our own party. It was enjoyable. at 63 While LFG i got blind-invited to Abyssea Uleg- Party, I Accepted it and got to 90 in 1 night.

Does that mean me nor him suddenly don't know how to play the job? Certainly not. I have Multiple 90 Jobs and i make it a goal to at least learn basics about the job. Anything i don't know i learn through Questions and Trial and Error.


Last week my GF Took up Thief as a Sub job, Within moments of LFG she got an Invite to an E.Ronf(S) Party. These parties still exist.

And Regarding the problem of "Not enough people LFG in XXX Range". When i was getting my Maats cap, I had too more times than not "/sea all invite 40-70" Just to be able to find a DECENT part set up, And even then more times than not i had to Random-Tell a WHM or RDM to exp cause they were rarely looking for group too.

Less Low-Level parties is not ENTIRELY Abysseas fault. Most people in FFXI's late age have already leveled all the jobs they wanted, Every now and again theres 1-2 people LFG, But this is the what naturally happens when a game ages. Less People LFG Low-Level is because less people have low-level jobs to level these days. For instance all of my jobs are 66+, Except for PUP, COR, DNC, and SCH... 4 Jobs I'm very unlikely to level past a sub job.

So now, Instead of those people who do have Sub jobs to level, or People who want to take up new jobs this late in the game having to wait for an Invite while soloing and a mind-numbing pace, They have the Option to Level the job through Abyssea, Which is easier to find a party for. Forcing he Level Min. To 70 will only hurt people who want to level low level jobs, Because removing the Option for Abyssea won't change enough to make Low-Level exp parties more common, The only thing its going to do is force people, Who could be leveling in Abyssea, to Solo while LFG for hours.

It would do nothing but hinder the Average players experience in the game.


Now, Please Hear me when i say i understand how frustrating it is to join an Abyssea party to have 3~Leeches sitting in a corner doing nothing while the 4th Leech Barely Opens boxes. But those types of parties you just drop like its hot. Cause thankfully theres always a good few Abyssea parties going. I understand that What i'm voicing is an Opinion, But you need to understand I'm not forcing my opinion on the game and everyone else like this threads idea is.

My opinion is to keep things the way they are, Give people their own right to chose to Exp Normally, or Exp in Abyssea. This is a good system. I'm sorry if you don't feel people are Exping "normally" Enough anymore, Buts its rarely due to Abyssea being easier, and more to do with the game is in its late stage and naturally less people LFG, So they opt for the next solution to not having to solo, Which is Abyssea.

Raising the Minimum to 70 would be forcing the opinion of "Normal Exp parties" on Everyone. because instead of now having the option to level Out-side Abyssea, or Inside, They are forced outside rather they like it or not.


TL;DR: Its fine how it is. We have the Options of Leveling old way, or new way. People will always chose what they want. Taking away their choice is not the solution.

[Odintius]

And the flaming wars continue lmao.

[Zeitzone]

Nice way to deflect responsibility and not back up what you say. Anything you have to say is now irrelevant.

That says a guy who thinks he can mute the oposite opinion? You are a sad person.
The evidences are everywhere, you are just blind to it.

[Nataskiller]

well if it was raised from 30 to 70 the new players like myself would be dis encouraged to play and that would make SE lose money off potential customers...

[RaenRyong]

If they're everywhere, you won't have a problem posting it?

[magnius]

It makes the game monotone. Same as Guild Wars or WoW there is only one big main target left, in the past we had multiple same good targets: Assault, Dynamis and Limbus, now those three and others lost any use becouse everything is runing into Abyssea.

Many ppl got leeched up jobs, everyone of them is one who has at last not earned level 90 jobs


Exping for hours and hours for one level isn't monotonous?

Players can still do Dynamis. Have you ever thought about the plans the developers have for FFXI? Perhaps they want to move away from the old content like Assault and Limbus, which is why they made Abyssea. Or they have future plans for it and they haven't released it yet. I mean they are already changing Dynamis.

Who cares if other players got all their jobs up to 90? Why does that matter to you?

[Zeitzone]

Yes, Your opinion is that Abyssea having a level 30 Minimum on it is bad, But theres a lot more people who enjoy being able to take the boredom of leveling a job from 30 > 70 through normal means.

Thats not enjoying, thats cheating, you can go buy a car or go steal it, staling is easyer, so why do not more ppl steal it?
Becouse its forbidden.
Leeching is stealing exp, sadly it isnt fobidden yet becouse SE cannot fobidde leeching, but they can try to redirect it or even make it impossible.
Still there are lazy ppl in rl who rather steal a car then earning it.
Leeching is stealing, the job is not earned on 90? Or what did you do to earn it to be 90? You opened a chest? Wooow you really had a hard time to open that chest, you sure stood 10hrs infront of it with sweat on your body that you really deservet that high amount of exp.
Ppl wake up! Its like you buy a Game, asking a friend for his last savegame on the end of the game, loading that savegame and then kill endboss.
Wooowww, congratulation, you really made it! You beat the game.

[Zeitzone]

Exping for hours and hours for one level isn't monotonous?

Players can still do Dynamis. Have you ever thought about the plans the developers have for FFXI? Perhaps they want to move away from the old content like Assault and Limbus, which is why they made Abyssea. Or they have future plans for it and they haven't released it yet. I mean they are already changing Dynamis.

Who cares if other players got all their jobs up to 90? Why does that matter to you?

Becouse the way they get it up is undeserved.
Changing the whole concept of a game millions of players loved for years like it was is the biggest BS ever.

[Karbuncle]

Thats not enjoying, thats cheating, you can go buy a car or go steal it, staling is easyer, so why do not more ppl steal it?
Becouse its forbidden.
Leeching is stealing exp, sadly it isnt fobidden yet becouse SE cannot fobidde leeching, but they can try to redirect it or even make it impossible.
Still there are lazy ppl in rl who rather steal a car then earning it.
Leeching is stealing, the job is not earned on 90? Or what did you do to earn it to be 90? You opened a chest? Wooow you really had a hard time to open that chest, you sure stood 10hrs infront of it with sweat on your body that you really deservet that high amount of exp.
Ppl wake up! Its like you buy a Game, asking a friend for his last savegame on the end of the game, loading that savegame and then kill endboss.
Wooowww, congratulation, you really made it! You beat the game.

Thats Still your opinion. Its not Stealing, Its not Cheating, Its how the game is and can work.

I'm sorry if you Cannot understand that it being "Stealing, Or Cheating" Is simply your opinion. If it was like stealing a Car there would be Salvage-level bans for it in game. You are comparing Apples and Oranges to drive your point.

If you insist on being sarcastic and ridiculing I will report your posts for being Inflammatory. I'm attempting to keep this basic and Civil and your sarcasm denotes reasonable conversation.

[Odintius]

Thats not enjoying, thats cheating, you can go buy a car or go steal it, staling is easyer, so why do not more ppl steal it?
Becouse its forbidden.
Leeching is stealing exp, sadly it isnt fobidden yet becouse SE cannot fobidde leeching, but they can try to redirect it or even make it impossible.
Still there are lazy ppl in rl who rather steal a car then earning it.
Leeching is stealing, the job is not earned on 90? Or what did you do to earn it to be 90? You opened a chest? Wooow you really had a hard time to open that chest, you sure stood 10hrs infront of it with sweat on your body that you really deservet that high amount of exp.
Ppl wake up! Its like you buy a Game, asking a friend for his last savegame on the end of the game, loading that savegame and then kill endboss.
Wooowww, congratulation, you really made it! You beat the game.

Apparently that what they think makes a game great make everything easy and be done with it quick. Bet there the first people who complain there's nothing to do or screams for more content not everyone though but im pretty sure most are. imo

[Zeitzone]

If they're everywhere, you won't have a problem posting it?

I already postet that they are redirecting the exp gain so you move your asses out of Abyssea leeching.

[magnius]

Did you just compare leeching exp to stealing a car? Hahaha...

If you can't prove that SE doesn't want us to exp then that statement like ALL of your statements are completely fictional. However, I DO think SE did increase the exp outside of Abyssea because new players are having a hard time getting their jobs up to 30...because a majority of the players already have their jobs they have wanted to level up to at least 37 already.

[Zeitzone]

Thats Still your opinion. Its not Stealing, Its not Cheating, Its how the game is and can work.

I'm sorry if you Cannot understand that it being "Stealing, Or Cheating" Is simply your opinion. If it was like stealing a Car there would be Salvage-level bans for it in game. You are comparing Apples and Oranges to drive your point.

If you insist on being sarcastic and ridiculing I will report your posts for being Inflammatory. I'm attempting to keep this basic and Civil and your sarcasm denotes reasonable conversation.

Lol your side want to tell me something about sarcasm and flaming? You better read the whole thread and you see that there are more ppl on your side of opinion who whould need a permanent bann.

[RaenRyong]

Thats not enjoying, thats cheating, you can go buy a car or go steal it, staling is easyer, so why do not more ppl steal it?
Becouse its forbidden.
Leeching is stealing exp, sadly it isnt fobidden yet becouse SE cannot fobidde leeching, but they can try to redirect it or even make it impossible.
Still there are lazy ppl in rl who rather steal a car then earning it.
Leeching is stealing, the job is not earned on 90? Or what did you do to earn it to be 90? You opened a chest? Wooow you really had a hard time to open that chest, you sure stood 10hrs infront of it with sweat on your body that you really deservet that high amount of exp.
Ppl wake up! Its like you buy a Game, asking a friend for his last savegame on the end of the game, loading that savegame and then kill endboss.
Wooowww, congratulation, you really made it! You beat the game.

Your analogies are really terrible. To use a more accurate analogy (which is still flawed on the basis that game mechanics often do not translate well to real life analogies!), if people had to work months for a car and they were offered the same car after a couple of days of working, which would they pick?


Leeching is stealing exp, sadly it isnt fobidden yet becouse SE cannot fobidde leeching, but they can try to redirect it or even make it impossible.

YES, THEY CAN. It is SE's game. They can do whatever they want. They can forbid us to face East during combat. They can ban us if we ever use the letter F. They're not banning leeching because it is entirely right and you are just being stubborn and/or dumb.

[Karbuncle]

Apparently that what they think makes a game great make everything easy and be done with it quick. Bet there the first people who complain there's nothing to do or screams for more content not everyone though but im pretty sure most are. imo

No. What makes the game great is having the freedom of leveling a new job to 90 Relatively quickly. Most people who level new jobs in this day of FFXI usually do it simply to help friends, or for the fun of it, and being able to quickly access the end-game content of a game. To be able to participate with your friends.

People who will level a job outside of Abyssea will still try. EXP Parties will still form, They still exist in small numbers. But this is due to Abyssea and the Age of the game. Its natural that later in a game the influx of new people/Leveling sub jobs/noob jobs Will naturally decline.


Lol your side want to tell me something about sarcasm and flaming? You better read the whole thread and you see that there are more ppl on your side of opinion who whould need a permanent bann.

Those people are not the ones sarcastically responding to my post looking for an Argument. Just because they agree with my Opinion does not give you the right to respond to me the way you did, Nor does it mean i agree with their methods on the argument. Two wrongs don't make a Right. I'm sorry if you felt because other people who agree with me are jerks, That you had to in turn treat me the same way.

[Odintius]

Never had a hard time leveling a job to 30 even when ffxi came out >.> Just saying

[RaenRyong]

I already postet that they are redirecting the exp gain so you move your asses out of Abyssea leeching.

That is again an assumption.

I'm going out for a run now but I don't see the point in continuing this when you constantly make assumptions and create arbitrary terms to reinforce your arguments without justification.

Levelling the old way is cheating and created gimp players so SE introduced Abyssea in an effort to stop us cheating.

My above statement has as much justification as yours do.

[Zeitzone]

Did you just compare leeching exp to stealing a car? Hahaha...

If you can't prove that SE doesn't want us to exp then that statement like ALL of your statements are completely fictional. However, I DO think SE did increase the exp outside of Abyssea because new players are having a hard time getting their jobs up to 30...because a majority of the players already have their jobs they have wanted to level up to at least 37 already.

So why then raising exp gain even after levle 37 up to 75 outside abyssea?
Becouse your opinion is false.
And why do all players already have so much jobs on 90 and newcomers need to solo up to 30?
Becouse you guys leech up to 90. There are always jobs who arent usefull for subjobs.

[Vivik]

I already postet that they are redirecting the exp gain so you move your asses out of Abyssea leeching.

Again. Quoting what SE said with no backup. I want to see where SE said "We are raising xp to get the leechers out of abyssea".

[Zeitzone]

That is again an assumption.

I'm going out for a run now but I don't see the point in continuing this when you constantly make assumptions and create arbitrary terms to reinforce your arguments without justification.

Levelling the old way is cheating and created gimp players so SE introduced Abyssea in an effort to stop us cheating.

My above statement has as much justification as yours do.

If you dont see a point in it then do not post here, noone asked you for your opinion, just leave, problem resolved.

[Zeitzone]

Again. Quoting what SE said with no backup. I want to see where SE said "We are raising xp to get the leechers out of abyssea".

Did i say "said" somwhere? I dont think so.
YOu really are poor leechers so hardly claiming on the level 30 entrance. Looks like you will be totaly lost when they make it on 70.

[Karbuncle]

Never had a hard time leveling a job to 30 even when ffxi came out >.> Just saying

I've never had a "Hard" Time either. When i leveled jobs for my Maat's cap I enjoyed some of the friends i met on the Way. It was a good Experience for me at the time. But now I also meat some good people in Abyssea alliances. Both ways to me are fun.

But the difference is I, who have leveled from both points of view, Do not attempt to ridicule, Insult, or belittle others while forcing my Opinions on how Exp should be handled on others.

I Feel that the people of FFXI Should have their choice to level the old way, or the new way. Exp parties will still form Outside Abyssea, And they will still form inside.

The Decline of low level Exp is a join effort. Between the games age, Lack of new players, and Abyssea. I think the current choices we have make it easier for the majority of people.

I would not be upset at a change to 70 Min, But i only express that in the end i think, In my opinion, it may do more harm than good.

[magnius]

Becouse the way they get it up is undeserved.
Changing the whole concept of a game millions of players loved for years like it was is the biggest BS ever.

Why does it matter what you think they deserve it or not? Why does it matter to you?

Also, awww, that's too bad you don't like Abyssea. I like it. I like the change.

[viion]

Have we come to any conclusion? :P

Or is it still "if you don't like leechers, kick them" which seems fair enough.

I am in favor of the 30-1 thread XD

[Zeitzone]

Those people are not the ones sarcastically responding to my post looking for an Argument. Just because they agree with my Opinion does not give you the right to respond to me the way you did, Nor does it mean i agree with their methods on the argument. Two wrongs don't make a Right. I'm sorry if you felt because other people who agree with me are jerks, That you had to in turn treat me the same way.

In that case i Apologize. Im Sorry.

[Karbuncle]

Have we come to any conclusion? :P

Or is it still "if you don't like leechers, kick them" which seems fair enough.

I am in favor of the 30-1 thread XD

The Conversation yet continues, However I fell the Idea will ultimately not be implemented. It will likely stay as is. Allowing the players their own choice i think is a good call on Square.

But none can know until we are told officially.

[Zeitzone]

Why does it matter what you think they deserve it or not? Why does it matter to you?

Also, awww, that's too bad you don't like Abyssea. I like it. I like the change.

Oh i like abyssea, but there has to be a different access level, above 70.
Becouse i really hear bad storys, ppl going afk in Abyssea, and why, becouse they learned it that way, by leeching up.
Why do i need to work for something if i can get it free without even beeing behind the pc.
Thats how this folk here starts to think. And thats not correct, you need to earn anything in life, that is life.

[Odintius]

Comes down to whoever makes the party if they like leecher's the can have them. If you don't want leecher's make the party to 70+.

[Vivik]

Comes down to whoever makes the party if they like leecher's the can have them. If you don't want leecher's make the party to 70+.

Exactly, SE is giving players choices. If you don't like the choices, don't use them. Simple...

[Zeitzone]

Comes down to whoever makes the party if they like leecher's the can have them. If you don't want leecher's make the party to 70+.

That will still not remove leechers from the game, and ppl who dont want to leech are pushed to leech to be able to stick with the game.

[magnius]

Oh i like abyssea, but there has to be a different access level, above 70.
Becouse i really hear bad storys, ppl going afk in Abyssea, and why, becouse they learned it that way, by leeching up.
Why do i need to work for something if i can get it free without even beeing behind the pc.
Thats how this folk here starts to think. And thats not correct, you need to earn anything in life, that is life.

Firstly, FFXI isn't life, which is why I like this easier way to get exp rather than wasting my time getting exp when I shoulda been a 90 and soloing.

Again, so what if get to 90 that way? Who cares if they suck at their jobs. I mean you have your own LS right? Does it make your or your LS worse?

[Zeitzone]

Exactly, SE is giving players choices. If you don't like the choices, don't use them. Simple...

Well and this debate is about changing that, logicaly you cant come in here and say SE gives choice, becouse this thread is about debating to change to 70+
If that is your statement youst leave this thread.^^

[viion]

Comes down to whoever makes the party if they like leecher's the can have them. If you don't want leecher's make the party to 70+.

^ this.

It comes down to the party, dont want leechers, dont invite them.

I just started and have not a lot of interest in grinding my way back up in dead places, fortunately I have a PL which makes the ride easier but others dont, so I am hoping by 30 I can come in to abyssea and leech, but I wont AFK, I will watch, learn what is going on, check peoples gears out and then do the whole chest/trade off thing that you're supposed to do. Then by the time I am at a level I can actually do something I would leave and go spend time skilling up everything because I dont need a 6 man party to do that, skilling up is a A LOT more easier than levelling the old way right now.

I agree AFKing is rude, but SE shouldnt ruin a system just to prevent people from AFKing, whats to stop someone AFking at 70+ lol, nothing. Yes they can actually do something but it all comes down to the person; if they want to AFK they're going to, and then its up to you or the party leader to take action.

It isnt difficult.

[Vivik]

Well and this debate is about changing that, logicaly you cant come in here and say SE gives choice, becouse this thread is about debating to change to 70+
If that is your statement youst leave this thread.^^

Debating there should be no change does belong here. Sorry, but you're wrong.

[Zeitzone]

Firstly, FFXI isn't life, which is why I like this easier way to get exp rather than wasting my time getting exp when I shoulda been a 90 and soloing.

Again, so what if get to 90 that way? Who cares if they suck at their jobs. I mean you have your own LS right? Does it make your or your LS worse?

well but there are ppl who liked the game beeing like life and make it a challenge to get something. Thats why we startet this game. And now in the middle of the games live they change the whole foundation of the game, its like Ossy Osborne whould start to sing Jazz or Blues. All his fans whould say "Wtf?" and he whould lost alot of them.
With abyssea SE changed the whole foundation of FFXI and all player thought "WTF?" and alot left and still leaving.
And we want that challenge ffxi has been for several years, if you want a easy game why not play Guild Wars or WoW, why ruin our great old FFXI by makeing a gimp game with no difficulty out of it.

[magnius]

Becouse your opinion is false.


Opinions can't be true or false because it is an opinion.

It's like saying apples are the best fruit ever. But someone may hate apples and think it's disgusting. Do you understand?

[magnius]

well but there are ppl who liked the game beeing like life and make it a chalenge to get something. Thats why we startet this game. And now in the middle of the games live they change the whole foundation of the game, its like Ossy Osborne whould start to sing Jazz or Blues. All his fans whould say "Wtf?" and he whould lost alot of them.
With abyssea SE changed the whole foundation of FFXI and all player thought "WTF?" and alot left and still leaving.
And we want that chalenge ffxi has been for several years, if you want a easy game why not play Guild Wars or WoW, why ruin our great old FFXI by makeing a gimp game with no difficulty out of it.

People have been leaving before Abyssea.

If Ozzy Osbourne started singing Jazz or Blues and he sounded good, his true fans would still be his fans.

[Odintius]

That will still not remove leechers from the game, and ppl who dont want to leech are pushed to leech to be able to stick with the game.

In a way I agree but I don't get pushed in doing something I find way's to make it work. Abyssea is becoming more the core of the game rather it be end game content. Reaching level 30 isn't hard even before all the exp updates really but I agree really don't like leechers in parties I didn't join for someone to benifit off my contribution to the party. Shoot there even 70+ ppl who leeches still by going afk by that dominio npc guy and just refreshing there pages that makes me want to d2 there butt's.

[HFX7686]

Becouse SE cant bann ppl for leeching, but they looking for ways to resolve that matter.

I've not seen a single statement made by SE talking about the Abyssea leeching thing one way or the other.

Could you direct me to a link that states their opinion please? I'm really curious now.

EDIT: Nevermind, read later posts of yours. You didn't see that anyplace. You made it up.

[Alhanelem]

Opinions can't be true or false because it is an opinion.Opinions can be true or false if they are based on information that is provably true or false.

Changing the level limits for abyssea won't solve any problems. The people you don't like will just find another way, because they really aren't as stupid and careless as some people would like to believe.


Becouse i really hear bad storys, ppl going afk in Abyssea, and why, becouse they learned it that way, by leeching up.Yeah well those stories (STORIES, not storys) you hear usually aren't true.

I don't know ONE SINGLE PERSON who leveled up their first job by going AFK in abyssea and did not know how to play upon reaching lv90. And even if someone actually did do that, all their combat skills would be <30cap levels, and it wouldn't take long for anyone to discover that they did that. That player would basically immediately be ostracized and wished he didn't do that.

If anyone actually does what people are afraid of, they are the one that will get punished in the end. For all the experienced players who love events but don't like leveling as much as the rest of the game anymohttp://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/images/editor/color.pngre, they are not going to come out of a box opener job or any kind of party leeching and not know how to play. I'm only going to post this one more time:

If you don't like people doing this, then don't play with them. Just kick them, keep your party small, leave the party, w/e. No change to the game is needed.

[viion]

If you don't like people doing this, then don't play with them. Just kick them, keep your party small, leave the party, w/e. No change to the game is needed.

Yeh!! .. ehhh!!! Yeh!!

[magnius]

Opinions can be true or false if they are based on information that is provably true or false.


What you're talking about is a theory which is far and away from an opinion. It is a scientific statement that can be backed up by facts.

You can never prove an opinion to be true or false, which is why this thread has been going on and on. You can however, say your opinion has a favor of the majority, but it still does not make it fact.

[Eligia]

I just restarted after quitting for around 2 years. I got my THF to 30, and NIN to 50 without entering Abyssea a single time, other than to start acquiring stones from the first quest. And this was all within like a week and a half. I don't really understand what people are bitching about. EXP parties are still completely feasible. Either you're lazy and won't build one, or you just need something to cry about. You can even just wait around for an invite. It still takes roughly the same time as the old days. Plus, soloing/duoing etc. is applicable with all the FoV bonuses and buffs.

[Odintius]

What you're talking about is a theory which is far and away from an opinion. It is a scientific statement that can be backed up by facts.

You can never prove an opinion to be true or false, which is why this thread has been going on and on. You can however, say your opinion has a favor of the majority, but it still does not make it fact.

I can agree with this opinion ^^

[Skybrit]

The whole reason SE just raised all the exp lvls in the older areas was to get people back to lvling out there. Many of the parties I have been in during the last rew weeks have gotten 600-800 exp per kill. Of course, the turnover is not as fast as Abyss but its at least 3 times faster than the old days. They know the game is doomed in the long run if people don't get back into the bigger sense of the whole game.

[Pharaun]

They know the game is doomed in the long run if people don't get back into the bigger sense of the whole game.

I really want to know why you assume this. If you look at most other MMOs content gets outdated on a regular basis and it hasn't affected the long term viability of those games.

[Ramsos]

The whole reason SE just raised all the exp lvls in the older areas was to get people back to lvling out there. Many of the parties I have been in during the last rew weeks have gotten 600-800 exp per kill. Of course, the turnover is not as fast as Abyss but its at least 3 times faster than the old days. They know the game is doomed in the long run if people don't get back into the bigger sense of the whole game.

It depends on your definition of the "whole game".

If all you do is exp, then yes the game is doomed since its very easy to exp nowadays.

If you do endgame events, it remains to be seen what SE has to offer for the future. Abyssea is awesome but it wont last forever, people already have multiple jobs with emp weaps and 5/5 af3+2s. SE has already started working on older events like dynamis.

Take zietzone for example. He sounds like the type of player who is in some BS social shell that does nothing but level because they dont have many older/skilled players. It sounds like its full of noobs who get corrupted by morons like zeitzone who view old exp through rose-tinted glasses and cry all day about abyssea making his previous leveling "accomplishments" null since anyone can get a job 30-90 in one sitting. He can claim all he wants that hes not the minority with his views, but he wont post his gear so we can only imagine the abomination that he calls a "skilled" player.

From zeitzone's perspective, the game is doomed since his archaic way of self aggrandizement is pointless now. He cant just run around claiming hes awesome because he has x# of 75 jobs that are geared awful as sin.

From the perspective of people who actually play endgame such as myself and a few other posters here, we like the way the system works right now. We have gone through the old way of exping for years and are tired of it. We like being able to level a new job for abyssea procs or to help out others or to simply have fun on a new job. We know what we are doing and dont need to grind collibri to know how to play the game. Raising the level cap for abyssea would just force accomplished players to go back to collibri syncing or smn buring or just not lvling new jobs altogether. I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

[Odintius]

I agree that SE needs to revisit the old area's and respark interests in them again!

[Pharaun]

I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

I 100% support this statement, and as a side note I've found that abyssea parties are generally more social than old exp parties anyway.

[Valaris]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

[Anela]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

Well Said!!

[Linh]

I sure as hell wont be going back to the old 5k/hr pts just so people like zeitzone can "experience the social aspects of the game".

zeitzone wasn't trying to say that there is anything wrong with Abyssea itself giving good exp, *just there is something wrong with it giving good exp to leechers*.

So the correct argument would be: "Why the hell can't a student (a level 30) learn from their mentors (lvl75+)? Isn't that a social aspect of the game too? If you think about it from a Role Playing perspective, the student tags along with their mentor into a live combat situation to learn."

[Ramsos]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

[Pharaun]

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.


reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

Again nostalgia is fooling you. It has been difficult to find low level gear on the AH for years since the synths for low level gear are generally money losers for crafters. There simply hasn't been enough demand to make these synths for a long time now.


reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

It might make a few items more readily available, but overall the materials were placed on the AH by people specifically farming them and not from exp parties.


reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

Nostalgia strikes again, the economy has been stagnant for a long time with most synths only being profitable if you can HQ the crap out of them. Again the demand just hasn't been present for a long to really support a ton of crafters and the economy as a whole.


reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

If you know what you are doing it is faster to skill up after you hit 90 than to spend weeks or months in old school exp parties trying to keep skills capped as you go.


reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

The argument coming from your side is wildly inconsistent on this point. So many of you say that the majority of players don't want to leech in abyssea, but then you say that you can't find parties. Both of the statements can't be true, if there are enough of you opposed then finding an old style party shouldn't take much longer than it did before abyssea existed.


its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

Come back when you actually know what you are talking about.

[Valaris]

1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

[Valaris]

[QUOTE=Pharaun;39801]Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.

[Ramsos]

lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.Or solo an all EP page for 100xp a kill +FOV. You can even do this while seeking.

[magnius]

lmao i said good reasons that help game dynamis you just proved there are none. and on smn burn pts only two can pull that off at a time so it will still force people to lvl in crawlers nest just like it was before abyssea. your reasons hold no merit at all if you cant list any that help game dynamics to support your claims dont bother wasting my time listing them and your reason 6 18 people=less people seeking you just hurt your own cause because less people seeking is whats creating the problom lmao. and yes people can still leech outside of abyssea but if you remember smn charged people gil for that and in my server people lvled the old ways because they would rather earn what that have rather than waste gil paying a some high lvl to pull the mobs for them.

Maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap, but I have no idea what the point of this is. I can't follow his train of thought. Someone help me translate.

[Valaris]

and on a closing note. (after this im done wasting time explaining this). the opinions expressed in these forums dont really matter anyway. the developers have already increased the xp in areas outisde of abyssea. why do you think they have done this. simply to get people to xp outside of abyssea. once they realise that this is not working what do you think they will do. they obviously are not going to let all that programming they spent so much time on with those zones go to waste do you. no they are going to make a simple adjustment to abyssea such as a lvl restriction or a xp restriction on abyssea to force people away from low lvl leaching in there. they have already started toying with ideas to stop this kind of thing so enjoy it while it lasts.

[Linh]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.


reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.


reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.


reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!


reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!


reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!


its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

[Dauntless]

1. People will only sync to Eron[S], ToA zones, korroloka tunnel.

2. You dont need good gear to kill collibri or smn burn.

3. See above.

4. See point 2-3

5. Lvl sync will keep skill levels low, or in the case of smn burn skills will be the same as they are now.

6. Shout abyssea pts are 18 man groups, oldschool exp are 6 or less man pts. Abyssea = larger pts and less people seeking. Also there are 9 abyssea zones to choose from, but only 4 for sync (3 collibri, 1 smn burn).

Dont fool yourself into thinking that if people couldnt leech in abyssea that they would go back to places like crawlers nest or garlaige citadel.

Try again.

You people fail to understand this, so I will say it again.


Problem with that is Pre-Abyssea level sync was still here and there were TONS of parties in old school spots that weren't just burn or bird parties. Why?

Simple really.

There are only so many parties that these spots can hold.

Pre-Abyssea there was no problem with everyone abusing smn burns and bird parties because more than 2 parties per camp and you wouldn't make it past chain 3, so the camp sucked. This stopped people from abusing and people actually made parties around their level.

Now the only parties outside of Abyssea are Qufim Island and Kazham because they're pre-30.

It's sad, really.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

and on a closing note. (after this im done wasting time explaining this). the opinions expressed in these forums dont really matter anyway. the developers have already increased the xp in areas outisde of abyssea. why do you think they have done this. simply to get people to xp outside of abyssea. once they realise that this is not working what do you think they will do. they obviously are not going to let all that programming they spent so much time on with those zones go to waste do you. no they are going to make a simple adjustment to abyssea such as a lvl restriction or a xp restriction on abyssea to force people away from low lvl leaching in there. they have already started toying with ideas to stop this kind of thing so enjoy it while it lasts.It might just be his server. There's plenty of XP outside of abyssea [This way.]

[Valaris]

You are the only crying about how the system is broken and that things need to change, I dont need to list any reason other than abyssea has worked for months. If it was truly a problem, SE would have patched it by now.

Also, if theres less people seeking then theres less people not exping and therefore people arent stuck in town seeking. If you cant find a party nowadays my advice to you is to start your own pt or just suck less.

lol i dont xp anymore i have 7 lvl 90 jobs and yes they were 75 long before the server merges and abyssea. i dont plan on lvling anymore jobs. i just dont have the inventory space for it. and suck less you say thats really funny if your on valefor server come pay me a visit and well see how much i suck lol

[Vivik]

Maybe it's because I just woke up from a nap, but I have no idea what the point of this is. I can't follow his train of thought. Someone help me translate.


I'm the new troll of the thread to be made fun of by rational people.

About sums it up.

[Pharaun]

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.

You obviously have a hard time with reading comprehension so I'll break it down for you. Most people only exp'd in a few select areas and generally on the same type of mobs in the few areas that they did exp in. Raising the cap on abyssea will not cause all of these areas to magically become repopulated, they were dead long before abyssea existed.

Again, please come back when you know what you are talking about.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

lol i dont xp anymore i have 7 lvl 90 jobs and yes they were 75 long before the server merges and abyssea. i dont plan on lvling anymore jobs.I don't get it then. So why do you care?(Serious question.)

[Dauntless]

/facepalm


Problem with that is this: Pre-Abyssea level sync was still here and there were TONS of parties in old school spots that weren't just burn or bird parties. Why?

Simple really.

There are only so many parties that these spots can hold.

Pre-Abyssea there was no problem with everyone abusing smn burns and bird parties because more than 2 parties per camp and you wouldn't make it past chain 3, so the camp sucked. This stopped people from abusing and people actually made parties around their level. Once parties see there are multiple parties in a camp they realize that they should go to a camp that's open. Thus, exp spots that are now dead will be popping and popular.


Stop saying that level sync is the problem because it's not.

[Greatguardian]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

While I definitely appreciate a response to this thread that is significantly more coherent than Zeitzone's, I'm afraid I'll have to refute a couple of your points:

Counter 1: Even before the release of Abyssea, players were partying in 4 zones total, leaving 95% of them empty. People would solo to 18~ish (or use the Dunes if they were masochists), go to Qufim, then East Ronfaure [S], then Wajaom and Bhaflau to 75. Even before the release of WotG (which was years ago now), players generally only used 4-5 zones for exp'ing. Players have long since identified the most easily accessible and efficient camps in the game. While alternative options do exist (and had to for reasons I will elaborate on in Counter 6), they were as underused as Overworld exp areas are now. Removing Abyssea's EXP options while keeping WotG and ToAU in play will not increase the diversity in leveling locations at all. If anything, you'll be leveling in fewer zones since Abyssea utilizes between 4-7 zones on its own depending on your server (Scars + Heroes + La Theine).

Counter 2: The thing is, low level armor has practically no impact on playing jobs and hasn't in ages. Even if Abyssea were nerfed, people would still only exp in 4 general level ranges; 20~ > 30~ > 55~ > 75. If anything, people would be unable to find armor for their level because there is no profit in crafting it. The majority of the old armor on the Auction House wasn't newly forged, it was armor that people used and then resold. Now, most of this armor is out of the system, either because it's been tossed due to an inability to sell, or it's on a deactivated mule somewhere. As a Smith, I could run around making Solid Mail pieces, but why would I? I take a loss with every synth, even if I HQ, and it's generally a waste of my time.

Counter 3: Abyssea also drops a significantly wider variety of crafting materials than any exp camp in the game. Colibri Feathers and Colibri Beaks aren't used for something important now, are they? Once a player hits level 34~, those are the only crafting mats they'll be getting aside from Wind Crystals. In Abyssea, you can pick up buffalo and dragon meat, essential ingredients in popular foods, as well as high level synthesis mats like Divine Logs and Siren's Hairs. Abyssea promotes crafting on a very large scale.

Counter 4: The game's economy has shifted, but it's hard to say that it is not thriving. In the past, the majority of the best gear in the game required millions of gil to purchase on the AH, or merc for R/EX gear if you weren't in an HNM shell. Whoever could buy enough gil could get a relic and +1 gears. I'm not saying getting Gil was difficult, but there were definitely a choice few who cheated that system. Now, getting the best gear in the game requires going out and actually fighting things. You can't buy a Tantra Cyclas +2 off the AH. You have to go out and kill Gamayun and Alfard a dozen times each if you want one. Granted, you can still pay people to do these things for you, but as a general statement, the amount of Gil in your bank account no longer limits your ability to gear yourself properly.

Items like Grim Cuirass, Alcide's Harness, Hermes' Sandals, Juogis, and Spells of all classes also still sell well on the AH. Consumables like Shihei, and food, are never short on demand. Crafting took a hit with the reduced (read: little to none) demand for mid-level armor like Haubergeons, but at the same time the materials for those armors and higher level pieces became extremely cheap and easy to find because of Abyssea. Demand fell, but so did costs. Fishermen can still pull in millions a week as well, so it's hard to say crafting is entirely dead; or if it is, that Abyssea could fix it.

Counter 5: This is a false comparison. It only takes maybe a day to skill up multiple weapons to cap (which you can do afk on Zvhal Fortalices), and about that much time to skill magics to cap on Hpemde. Unless it actually takes 2-3 days to level 30-90 with all weapons capped (and noting that no WAR in his right mind would use a Scythe in an EXP party, I would kick them so fast) the normal way, leveling in Abyssea and then skilling up afterwards is still significantly faster.

Counter 6: This is the only real argument of any validity I've been hearing. Unfortunately, it relies on one very important premise. If low level players are unable to find parties because no one is exp'ing at low level ranges, then it cannot also be true that there are a large number of players who want to exp at these low level ranges. Now, that's fine, if players who are against Abyssea are a minority then yes this is a problem. Low level players do not have the Cruor or the game experience to create their own Abyssea parties and/or leech in them. It is difficult for a lone new player to get very far on their own. With a social linkshell, however, even new players should be able to find people willing to level sync with them.

Addendum to 6: Also, if Abyssea were removed as a leveling area, one of the biggest faults with FFXI exp would come back into play. That is to say, camp crowding. The best exp camps in the game can only afford 1-2 good parties at a time, maybe 3 if some of the parties are less than stellar. Bhaflau Birds (MMJ and NI RPs) were notorious for this, and often times merit parties would be cancelled entirely despite a solid setup due to a lack of space during prime times. For what good it did to break up leveling into multiple ranges, *fewer* people were able to level at any given time then than do now. Abyssea allowing 18 people in a single party, and having camps whose mob respawns adjust themselves to the rate at which they are being killed constitute the biggest step forward in FFXI EXP history.

[Dauntless]

While I definitely appreciate a response to this thread that is significantly more coherent than Zeitzone's, I'm afraid I'll have to refute a couple of your points:

Counter 1: Even before the release of Abyssea, players were partying in 4 zones total, leaving 95% of them empty. People would solo to 18~ish (or use the Dunes if they were masochists), go to Qufim, then East Ronfaure [S], then Wajaom and Bhaflau to 75. Even before the release of WotG (which was years ago now), players generally only used 4-5 zones for exp'ing. Players have long since identified the most easily accessible and efficient camps in the game. While alternative options do exist (and had to for reasons I will elaborate on in Counter 6), they were as underused as Overworld exp areas are now. Removing Abyssea's EXP options while keeping WotG and ToAU in play will not increase the diversity in leveling locations at all. If anything, you'll be leveling in fewer zones since Abyssea utilizes between 4-7 zones on its own depending on your server (Scars + Heroes + La Theine).


Please read my above post as to why this is a misconception.

Pre-level sync my only 75 was DRK. After sync I leveled DRG and WAR to 75 and never did I have to abuse Colibri or Qufim camps. We exp'd like we did pre-level sync, the only difference was the 2-3 level gaps that many parties experienced that reduced exp was now gone and everyone who was 60-65 could get equal exp in Aydeewa parties instead of having the typical 61-64 level gaps.

[Alhanelem]

[QUOTE=Pharaun;39801]Despite what nostalgia makes you think, the vast majority of areas in this game have been virtually empty since ToAU was released.

lol at you is all i can say roflmfao when this game dies people like you will be the ones to blaime.I would counter with replacing his name with yours. What he says is true. Merit/EXP places in old areas died when ToAU came out; and a lack of great things to EXP on meant that didn't change at WotG's release.

Honestly, the best part of the recent developments is people are less fussy about jobs. You know how hard it was to level up WHM, SMN, PUP, and some of the less popular DD jobs just because of people only wanting to party with BRDs, SAMs, and RDMs? If you wanted to play those jobs, you were lucky if you could party at all, because people would demand only the "best". Since abyssea, that hardly happens at all anymore.

[Greatguardian]

Please read my above post as to why this is a misconception.

Pre-level sync my only 75 was DRK. After sync I leveled DRG and WAR to 75 and never did I have to abuse Colibri or Qufim camps. We exp'd like we did pre-level sync, the only difference was the 2-3 level gaps that many parties experienced that reduced exp was now gone and everyone who was 60-65 could get equal exp in Aydeewa parties instead of having the typical 61-64 level gaps.

Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

[Ramsos]

Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

You're telling me that people didnt exp in dangruf wadi or pso'xja?! Blasphemy! SE NEEDS TO BREATHE NEW LIFE INTO THESE ZONES AND FORCE PEOPLE TO EXP THERE.

[Zeitzone]

It depends on your definition of the "whole game".

If all you do is exp, then yes the game is doomed since its very easy to exp nowadays.

If you do endgame events, it remains to be seen what SE has to offer for the future. Abyssea is awesome but it wont last forever, people already have multiple jobs with emp weaps and 5/5 af3+2s. SE has already started working on older events like dynamis.

Take zietzone for example. He sounds like the type of player who is in some BS social shell that does nothing but level because they dont have many older/skilled players. It sounds like its full of noobs who get corrupted by morons like zeitzone who view old exp through rose-tinted glasses and cry all day about abyssea making his previous leveling "accomplishments" null since anyone can get a job 30-90 in one sitting. He can claim all he wants that hes not the minority with his views, but he wont post his gear so we can only imagine the abomination that he calls a "skilled" player.

From zeitzone's perspective, the game is doomed since his archaic way of self aggrandizement is pointless now. He cant just run around claiming hes awesome because he has x# of 75 jobs that are geared awful as sin.


Lol i bet i did more Endgame as you ever will in the time FFXI has left till its gone.
My gears are pimped out on max dmg but i dont need to pose that, i know my gear is good.
And i prefer a nice slow experience point party becouse it is a fair way to get up, not like leechig.
You guys just dont know the true way of gameing, thats very sad, you allways want to put in the cheat codes by Gothic or Morrowind, and ask friends for Endboss savegames becouse you are too lazy to get the weapons and spells the correct way or get trough the game on own power.

[Ramsos]

Yes, run away because you are "done feeding the trolls" and not because multiple people prove you wrong. At least I admit to trolling, how about you?

[Zeitzone]

Yes, run away because you are "done feeding the trolls" and not because multiple people prove you wrong. At least I admit to trolling, how about you?

Yeah all you can do is flame at other, hes not runing, hes just bored of the stupidness of a leecher who cryes with all his power to prevent FFXI from working correctly. Guess who that leecher is, you.

[Vivik]

Yeah all you can do is flame at other, hes not runing, hes just bored of the stupidnes of a leecher who cryes with all his power to prevent FFXI from working correctly. Guess who that leecher is, you.

Yes, we are all the stupid ones...

[Dauntless]

Just because it happened does not mean that it is the norm. The average player only used Colibri burns the majority of the time. Even then, you're adding, what, 4 zones to the mix if we're being generous (Jungle, Kuftal, Aydeewa, QSC)? That still leaves 85-90% of the zones in the game untouched. Some of them weren't used for exp even when us Dinosaurs were leveling.

There will always be people attempting to abuse, that simply leaves more zones for people who aren't morons and want to exp in a less crowded spot. Last time I had a Colibri (E Ronfaure) party there were only two parties and the chains were grossly slow because these camps can't support many parties.

I can guarantee you that if this happens there will be people attempting to abuse these areas but they will be the people getting slow exp due to overcrowded camps.

Overcrowded camps = Smart parties moving to different areas. When these different areas get overcrowded people will move elsewhere. When THESE spots are overcrowded people will move elsewhere, and the cycle continues.

I was simply using Aydeewa as an example. Places like CN, Garlaige (Top and bottom) Sauromuge weapon camps, Mount Z, The Boyahda tree, etc were all still used commonly as exp spots. It was only the introduction of Abyssea that made these spots desolate.

[magnius]

My gears are pimped out on max dmg

Please, by all means, show me your gear sets. Perhaps, it will change my mind on my way of thinking, and show me the errs of my way.

[Linh]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.


reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.


reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.


reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!


reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!


reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!


its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual world and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

[Zeitzone]

Yes, we are all the stupid ones...

Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

[Vivik]

Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

I love potato chips.

[Ramsos]

Lol i bet i did more Endgame as you ever will in the time FFXI has left till its gone.
My gears are pimped out on max dmg but i dont need to pose that, i know my gear is good.
And i prefer a nice slow experience point party becouse it is a fair way to get up, not like leechig.
You guys just dont know the true way of gameing, thats very sad, you allways want to put in the cheat codes by Gothic or Morrowind, and ask friends for Endboss savegames becouse you are too lazy to get the weapons and spells the correct way or get trough the game on own power. You are pitiful

More baseless claims. Its not your right to say what way of exping is right or wrong. I never leeched a job to 90, but I want the option if I want to level a new job. You can look me up on ffxiah, I'm not the best but I'm not clueless either. Ive done every endgame event this game has to offer to death. You claim to be "pimped out on max damage", so put up or shut up. If you are better than me (which you should be since I'm not exactly stellar), ill take your broken english seriously. Until then you're just another nameless troll.

[magnius]

I love potato chips.

omg, me too.

[Zeitzone]

Please, by all means, show me your gear sets. Perhaps, it will change my mind on my way of thinking, and show me the errs of my way.

I have my own proud, i do not pose, i never did for over 7 years ffxi, and i will not do it now!
I never exposed my char to anyone outside the game.
But if you played on Unicorn im sure you had meet me and the chance is high that i helped you to get your first af or beat CoP, becouse beside endgame i loved to repeat those fights.

[Greatguardian]

Im fighting fire with fire.
Ramsos already got on my nerves since his first post same as you, you 2 have no life, you both are in here the whole day and just wait on a message to apear you can flame against, i bet you 2 weight 150KG each, sit all day infront of your PC and eat potatoe chips.

Put up or shut up. If you think your gear is so much better than ours, and that you've done more endgame than we ever will, prove it or get out.

[Kazen]

Lol i bet i did more Endgame as you ever will in the time FFXI has left till its gone.
My gears are pimped out on max dmg

I highly doubt you've done more endgame content than myself. I highly doubt you've even done half the endgame content that I have done. I'll tell you what, I'll even show you my gear first and I'd like to see you try and show me up. I'm not saying my gear is perfect because it's not; however, I can guarantee that my gear is better than yours.

Here is my profile on FFXIAH

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Kazen

[Zeitzone]

Put up or shut up. If you think your gear is so much better than ours, and that you've done more endgame than we ever will, prove it or get out.

Hey noob, this place is no show pimpness, you know.
I can talk here as much i want, if you want to pose go to the noob pose forum, you understood me there?
So if you have nothing serious to say you are the one to stfu and get out.

[Greatguardian]

I highly doubt you've done more endgame content than myself. I highly doubt you've even done half the endgame content that I have done. I'll tell you what, I'll even show you my gear first and I'd like to see you try and show me up. I'm not saying my gear is perfect because it's not; however, I can guarantee that my gear is better than yours.

Here is my profile on FFXIAH

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Kazen

+1

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Cerberus/Greatguardian

Most of my "Item Sets" are woefully out of date because I'm lazy, Nin and Mnk should be up to date though. Not perfect either, but I'm willing to bet plenty I'm better geared than Zeitzone.

[magnius]

I never exposed my char to anyone outside the game.
But if you played on Unicorn im sure you had meet me and the chance is high that i helped you to get your first af or beat CoP, becouse beside endgame i loved to repeat those fights.

But we're all from FFXI here lol. If you have nothing to hide, then don't hide it.
I'm pretty sure I got my own AF and beat CoP either by myself or with RL friends who have all quit when they made HNM the end all of the game.

[Greatguardian]

After a quick FFXIAH search, there aren't any players with "Zeit" in their names even playing on Unicorn server. So, this person is posting anonymously, and yet expects us to believe that they're "Top tier" while calling us noobs?

[Zeitzone]

I highly doubt you've done more endgame content than myself. I highly doubt you've even done half the endgame content that I have done. I'll tell you what, I'll even show you my gear first and I'd like to see you try and show me up. I'm not saying my gear is perfect because it's not; however, I can guarantee that my gear is better than yours.

Here is my profile on FFXIAH

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Kazen

As if i want to see that, you all just show how noobish you are, i talked to ramsos, and whats the first thing noobs do? Yes they come shout and start compare: hey look you say your gear is better then his, mine is better then yours!
Then next noob: no my gear is better then hers.

Wtf, noone asked you guys for your gears or your leves so just stfu and stop posing, noone asked for it, its like 3 Gay guys in string tangas whold jump infront of me and start to pump them muscles, My muscles are bigger then youaaaarrrssss.
Nooooooonnnneeee wants to seeeeeee that. Get it?

[Dauntless]

I highly doubt you've done more endgame content than myself. I highly doubt you've even done half the endgame content that I have done. I'll tell you what, I'll even show you my gear first and I'd like to see you try and show me up. I'm not saying my gear is perfect because it's not; however, I can guarantee that my gear is better than yours.

Here is my profile on FFXIAH

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Kazen

Haha wouldn't you feel silly if she/he was actually sporting Ares/relics/Homam

[Miyuchan]

hey calm down guys ^^ no need to yell on each other, whatever you agree or not what other said.

[Greatguardian]

As if i want to see that, you all just show how noobish you are, i talked to ramsos, and whats the first thing noobs do? Yes they come shout and start compare: hey look you say your gear is better then his, mine is better then yousrs!.
Then next noob: no my gear is better then hers.

Wtf, noone asked you guys for your gears or your leves so just stfu and stop posing, noone asked for it, its like 3 Gay guys in string tangas whold jump infront of me and start to pump them muscles, My muscles are bigger then youaaaarrrssss.
Nooooooonnnneeee wants to seeeeeee that. Get it?

You're the one who started saying you were an elite player, better than all of us, and had more endgame experience in your pinky than the rest of us will ever have. Obviously, you're not. We're just proving that point.

[Kazen]

As for my endgame "history" since I'm sure you'll ask...

I started in late 2003 and I joined my first sky/lower HNM shell in early 2004. I stayed in said sky/lower hnm ls until the end of 2005 in which I applied to BlueGartr and joined on Jan 2006. I stayed in BlueGartr until Jan 2011 when I left with a few of the other BG members to form an Abyssea LS because we weren't happy with the way things were being run. I have been active this entire time doing events daily since 2004. It's highly unlikely that your endgame "career" comes anywhere close to mine.

[Greatguardian]

Haha wouldn't you feel silly if she/he was actually sporting Ares/relics/Homam

Outdated gear from 2008? Yeah. I'd giggle a little, if that counts as feeling silly.

[magnius]

i talked to ramsos, and whats the first thing noobs do? Yes they come shout and start compare: hey look you say your gear is better then his, mine is better then yours!
Then next noob: no my gear is better then hers.

Wtf, noone asked you guys for your gears or your leves so just stfu and stop posing, noone asked for it, its like 3 Gay guys in string tangas whold jump infront of me and start to pump them muscles, My muscles are bigger then youaaaarrrssss.
Nooooooonnnneeee wants to seeeeeee that. Get it?

The thing is though, you posted on a public site where anyone can see. If you didn't want them to reply to you tell him in PM.
Also I want to see gay muscles.

[Kazen]

Haha wouldn't you feel silly if she/he was actually sporting Ares/relics/Homam

Not really, I have Ares's, E body, Homam, both pieces of the Vahalla set, everything possible from sky, many of the sea torques, etc. I have so much shit I don't know what to do with it all.

[Dauntless]

Outdated gear from 2008? Yeah. I'd giggle a little, if that counts as feeling silly.

Well it may be outdated now but it would prove he/she had extensive endgame experience. Would you be more impressed if she spent two weeks in Abyssea and got Empy armor/weapons?

[Rambus]

how did this go into my gear is better then yours when the intent was to have a talk about pros and cons of raising the cap to 70 or 75? 142 pages.. wow

[Nacht]

Here is my profile on FFXIAH
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Kazen

OMG you're gimp! you're not even using hand gear!!111!one!

[Zeitzone]

You're the one who started saying you were an elite player, better than all of us, and had more endgame experience in your pinky than the rest of us will ever have. Obviously, you're not. We're just proving that point.

Where the heck did you see myself comapre to all? I answered on a Post of Ramsos, what did you think why i Quoted him,for fun? He insulted me with following:


From zeitzone's perspective, the game is doomed since his archaic way of self aggrandizement is pointless now. He cant just run around claiming hes awesome because he has x# of 75 jobs that are geared awful as sin.

And what you feal offended for was my answer to him.

[Greatguardian]

Well it may be outdated now but it would prove he/she had extensive endgame experience. Would you be more impressed if she spent two weeks in Abyssea and got Empy armor/weapons?

I would certainly stop questioning his/her identity as an elite player, no doubt about it. They brought it upon themselves when they started bragging about experience and gear they can't back up.

[Icestein]

how did this go into my gear is better then yours when the intent was to have a talk about pros and cons of raising the cap to 70 or 75? 142 pages.. wow

Because after 142 pages there's very little left to debate. The same arguments and rebuttals get thrown around. It's pointless, really.

[Zeitzone]

But we're all from FFXI here lol. If you have nothing to hide, then don't hide it.
I'm pretty sure I got my own AF and beat CoP either by myself or with RL friends who have all quit when they made HNM the end all of the game.

Its still extern, i dislike ppl who pose from the deepest of my heart.

[Ramsos]

Where the heck did you see myself comapre to all? I answered on a Post of Ramsos, what did you think why i Quoted him,for fun? He insulted me with following:



And what you feal offended for was my answer to him.

My point still stands. Put up or shut up.

[Greatguardian]

Its still extern, i dislike ppl who pose from the deepest of my heart.

Claiming to be elite without backing it up is ....


wait for it .....


Posing.

[Kazen]

OMG you're gimp! you're not even using hand gear!!111!one!

My Danzo-Sune ate and my hand gear don't like each other! BUT FORGET THE HAND GEAR, FFXIAH SAYS I DONT HAVE A WEAPON ON BUT I HAVE A STRAP

[Zeitzone]

The thing is though, you posted on a public site where anyone can see. If you didn't want them to reply to you tell him in PM.
Also I want to see gay muscles.

Well this tell went to me too, isnt it? And everyone can read it, so? You did the same, anyone could think you talking to him/her now, but they dont becouse you Quoted me, as i Qoute the person i talk too.

[Nacht]

My Danzo-Sune ate and my hand gear don't like each other! BUT FORGET THE HAND GEAR, FFXIAH SAYS I DONT HAVE A WEAPON ON BUT I HAVE A STRAP

At least you didn't say strap on

[Zeitzone]

My point still stands. Put up or shut up.

And my point is still standing to, no posing, and if you dislike it just shut up yourself. I will not change my ideals for you.

[Zeitzone]

Claiming to be elite without backing it up is ....


wait for it .....


Posing.

i never claimed to be elite, i sayd i did more then Ramsos, and Ramsos isnt elite.

[Nacht]

And my point is still standing to, no posing, and if you dislike it just shut up yourself. I will not change my ideals for you.

What sort of ideal is this? Why so secretive?

[Icestein]

And my point is still standing to, no posing, and if you dislike it just shut up yourself. I will not change my ideals for you.

Making claims (I am an elite player blah blah blah) without having any evidence to back it up severely lowers the credibility of.. whatever it is you are arguing.

It reeks of Krystal, the "Oh I'm so elite, better than you" followed by the ffxiah link with gimp subs, bad gear, and what not.

[Ramsos]

i never claimed to be elite, i sayd i did more then Ramsos, and Ramsos isnt elite.

I have never claimed to be elite, I just want to know who I'm dealing with. I want to see this awesome guy from a social shell thats supposedly better than me.

[Zeitzone]

What sort of ideal is this? Why so secretive?

Its so since i started to play, i even never send pictures of me, i dont go in TS, thats all my ideals and of my GF, and for those who now thing im a guy becouse i got a GF, no, im BI/Lesbian.

And i never expose my char, i never change my server world on my free will, i never let a person alone without help.

[magnius]

i dislike ppl who pose from the deepest of my heart.

The point of this game is to "pose". You "pose" your achievement through the jobs you get to 90 without leeching, while you're angry at others who got it to 90 while leeching. Now you have nothing to hold against those players who leech. That's what Abyssea did. It leveled the playing field for ALL players. You can no longer be defined by the have and have-nots since everything can be achieved easily. You can't even "pose" your skills by saying I've done more endgame than you because HNM, Dynamis, etc are all dead and none of that matters anymore. So basically, you're just angry and don't know who to blame or how to deal with it because you're angry at yourself. You know what, let it go. It'll be OK.

[Linh]

yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.


reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.


reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.


reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!


reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!


reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!


its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

[Zeitzone]

I have never claimed to be elite, I just want to know who I'm dealing with. I want to see this awesome guy from a social shell thats supposedly better than me.

I know you never said that, but me too not, just those guys in previeus posts, turn words around in our mouth.

[Nacht]

And i never expose my char

What's so important about this, I mean what's the difference? So people won't give you shit in game for shit you say on a forum?

[Zeitzone]

The point of this game is to "pose". You "pose" your achievement through the jobs you get to 90 without leeching, while you're angry at others who got it to 90 while leeching. Now you have nothing to hold against those players who leech. That's what Abyssea did. It leveled the playing field for ALL players. You can no longer be defined by the have and have-nots since everything can be achieved easily. You can't even "pose" your skills by saying I've done more endgame than you because HNM, Dynamis, etc are all dead and none of that matters anymore. So basically, you're just angry and don't know who to blame or how to deal with it because you're angry at yourself. You know what, let it go. It'll be OK.

I just want this game to work properly by erasing leeching, decarasing it to a minimum.
I dont want leechers just becouse leeching is wrong, and becouse leechers are too ppl who need help, and i always help, and i hate it if i help and play with a noob who doesnt know its job, like if i help by CoP and we wipe becouse the PLD doesnt know how to hold hate, or the whm powers out so he gets all hate.
There has always been noobs, but the number of them grown, but all say i cant prove that, but i am the person who helps, and i deffinitely can say ppl got lazyer and do not know how to play them jobs, they wipe more on the CoP now then we under level restriction.

[Kazen]

Even if they do ignore them. I'm nice to practically anyone who talks to me in game so if they want to make accusations on me based on what is said on a forum then let them. I think Zeitzone is just afraid to post because she realizes that the group shes claiming to be better than is far superior to her in terms of gear and more than likely skill.

[Zeitzone]

What's so important about this, I mean what's the difference? So people won't give you shit in game for shit you say on a forum?

You sure know what ideals are? They do not need to be logic, they are just set.
You help in rl a person whos hit by 10 guys? Why where is the logic, you sure die. Well you do it becouse of your ideals.

[magnius]

I like if i help by CoP and we wipe becouse the PLD doesnt know how to hold hate, or the whm powers out so he gets all hate.
There has always been noobs, but the number of them grown, but all say i cant prove that, but i am the person who helps, and i deffinitely can say ppl got lazyer and do not know how to play them jobs, they wipe more on the CoP now then we under level restriction.

Let it go. There will always be noobs. Even you with your big heart can't change that. And you helping these noobs doesn't help either. They should learn how to beat CoP themselves. That will teach them how to play their jobs better.

[Zeitzone]

Even if they do ignore them. I'm nice to practically anyone who talks to me in game so if they want to make accusations on me based on what is said on a forum then let them. I think Zeitzone is just afraid to post because she realizes that the group shes claiming to be better than is far superior to her in terms of gear and more than likely skill.

Sigh, you are such a child. thinking so childish. Trying to provoke me. That will not work.
Do you know why?
Becouse i dont care what you are saying^^
Easy, isnt it^^
I just dont care what you are brabling.
Becouse im old enough to just ignore such comments or answer on them why no doupts, im not one of your victims you can punish, becouse i can be the biggest nightmare you ever meet in your rl, becouse i got a nice lever in my soul^^
A really bad side inside^^ like 2 personalities, if i let her out no lord can save you^^

[Nacht]

You sure know what ideals are? They do not need to be logic, they are just set.

I value logic and reason.

[magnius]

Kazen pushed a button on Zeitzone. She's spamming ^^ faces. Duck and cover. She has a bad personality and if she lets it out, lord can't save us.

[Zeitzone]

I value logic and reason.

I cant give a reason, its just set this way, anyways, i need to work tomorrow and now its bed time, i wish you all a good night, even those offending me, becouse in the end its just a game.

@magnitos: thats my happy pokerface^^

[magnius]

My name isn't Magnitos; ;

[Kazen]

Does this nightmare side of you have to deal with your spelling and grammar? If so then no need, because that scares me more than anything else ever could. I also don't require some "lord" to save me as I don't believe in some fictional higher being in the first place.

Yet again I'll call you out, I'm willing to bet that you don't have what it takes to beat me in a contest of wits; be it the posts that have been ongoing for the last 145 pages or in general. The only thing that scares me about you is your grammar.

Moving back on topic, I find it utterly hilarious that in 145 pages no one can make a valid point as to how this is an issue other than zones being empty. Even with the zones being empty, that's a non issue as long as people continue to play the game. If anything, forcing people to level the old way would make the overall in-game population decline as the average player has had enough with that style of playing after many years.

[HFX7686]

Zeitzone,

Why are you insisting on forcing people to play a way you deem acceptable?

I do not like that term force, but you use it often.

Forcing people to level outside of Abyssea.

It does not seem fair to force people to play the game.

As long as they are not playing with you, which you can avoid by simply not joining a party they're in, why do you want to force people to play the way you want them to play?

[Zeitzone]

My name isn't Magnitos; ;

Emm...sorry, Magnius

[Zeitzone]

Zeitzone,

Why are you insisting on forcing people to play a way you deem acceptable?

I do not like that term force, but you use it often.

Forcing people to level outside of Abyssea.

It does not seem fair to force people to play the game.

As long as they are not playing with you, which you can avoid by simply not joining a party they're in, why do you want to force people to play the way you want them to play?

Any game is forcing you in its limits, thats normal, so ffxi did too, they just change the foundation, now its not the old ffxi anymore alot ppl loved.

[HFX7686]

Any game is forcing you in its limits, thats normal, so ffxi did too, they just change the foundation, now its not the old ffxi anymore alot ppl loved.

Why do you get to decide what the game forces?

[Jhanaka]

Hi Folks!

It seems that the debate here has gotten pretty heated. Let’s all step back a bit and remember what this thread was originally started for. Let’s try to keep the conversation on topic and constructive; baiting and flaming one another only draws out a thread to the point where valid concerns are difficult to find. Please keep this in mind that excessive off topic or derogatory comments may result in suspension of posting privileges.

We thank you for your understanding,

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

[Zeitzone]

Does this nightmare side of you have to deal with your spelling and grammar? If so then no need, because that scares me more than anything else ever could. I also don't require some "lord" to save me as I don't believe in some fictional higher being in the first place.

Yet again I'll call you out, I'm willing to bet that you don't have what it takes to beat me in a contest of wits; be it the posts that have been ongoing for the last 145 pages or in general. The only thing that scares me about you is your grammar.

Moving back on topic, I find it utterly hilarious that in 145 pages no one can make a valid point as to how this is an issue other than zones being empty. Even with the zones being empty, that's a non issue as long as people continue to play the game. If anything, forcing people to level the old way would make the overall in-game population decline as the average player has had enough with that style of playing after many years.

And again just BS from you, ppl with no arguments go after the grammar.

Well im off, bed time.

[magnius]

Any game is forcing you in its limits, thats normal, so ffxi did too, they just change the foundation, now its not the old ffxi anymore alot ppl loved.

I loved old FFXI too, but I also love Abyssea and all of its content.

[Anela]

OK, it's getting redonculous..
Agree to disagree, and stop with the fighting already.

The beauty of this game is that there are so many people playing, you can find a group to play with that has your ideals and beliefs on gameplay.

Peace, out..

[HFX7686]

Hi Folks!

It seems that the debate here has gotten pretty heated. Let’s all step back a bit and remember what this thread was originally started for. Let’s try to keep the conversation on topic and constructive; baiting and flaming one another only draws out a thread to the point where valid concerns are difficult to find. Please keep this in mind that excessive off topic or derogatory comments may result in suspension of posting privileges.

We thank you for your understanding,

-Senior Game Master Jhanaka

I think all of us forum bums ought to really be thanking you Moderators for your patience and understanding. You must be banging your head against a wall by now. It'll get better when the game is back online!

[Zeitzone]

I loved old FFXI too, but I also love Abyssea and all of its content.

I like Abyssea too, but i am for the above level 70 Access, that was my statement from the start, but ppl allways try to change the subject.
GN

[Linh]

Here's constructive discussions now that the argument is over:


yesterday i remember someone saying theres no reason to up the lvl cap and challenged someone to list one well i will

reason 1: raising the cap will breathe new life into the old areas of vanadiel that have been tossed aside because of abyssea.

Adding in new "Dynamic Events" to the old areas will breathe new life into the game. Example:

A player walks by Selbina only to see an NPC running away from the town crying while carrying her baby in her arms. Said adventurer goes into town to see more adventurers fighting off pirate NMs, and other players *casting Water on a house to put out a fire*.

Different town, different country, different area = different type of "event".

Also, this doesn't mean people *have* to level this way. The old way of leveling should be kept intact and co-exist with this one.


reason 2: lvling in these areas will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.

Leveling in these *events* will force people to periodically upgrade there characters armor from lvls 1-70 thus a reason for armors ranging from lvls 1-70 to exsist in the AH.


reason 3: lvling in the xp areas will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH due to the fact that alot of mats drop off of mobs people used to xp on.

If people choose to level only through the Dynamic Events, they can get the same rewards and exp as if leveling the old way, thus will also promote more synthing materials to appear in the AH.

OR people can just level the old way too, since they don't *have to* level in the refreshingly new and fun events.


reason 4: the combined effect of more synthing materials and the new need for the old gear that was origionally needed for lvling characters in the past will revive the games once thriving economy.

People will need old gear to level in these events, and they'll get the same synthesis materials too!


reason 5: lvling this way will allow characters to skillup while lvling. this will in the end save a bit of time anyways because once you hit 70 and go to abyssea to finish the lvl 70-90 you can accually hit something and not have to waste as much time skilling up.

Leveling in these *events* will allow characters to skill up too!


reason 6: this will allow new players to get partys alot easyer. all to often i hear new players shouting for partys in jeuno only to be told "lol go solo your lvls" this is just sad and we wonder why people quit the game so much. people play mmorpgs to be part of a community not to go solo everything.

Anyone of any level will be able to participate in these events. There will be things to do in each event for people of varied levels. Whether solo or in a group!


its very sad that most of the ff community has now come down with fast food syndrome meaning (i want it fast, i want it easy, and i wanted it yesterday >.>) this is just pathetic. you guys can bite the bullet on this one with the new xp bands and increased xp in the old areas it would take about 1 week to hit 70 in the old areas. rather than 3 days in abyssea you can sacrifice 2 days of xping to fix the game economy and help out new players. and with those reasons said i return the challenge give me 6 reasons why the cap should be lowered to 1 or stay the same and be sure to list reasons that will improve game dynamics such as sything, economy, use of old areas and so on. if you can find a way to fix all this and keep your leechfest then more power to you but i doubt that will ever happen.

OR I can just go back to Abyssea leeching cuz SE hasn't implemented my neat ideas yet.

I set my expectations a lot higher than killing nameless mobs so I can reach max level to participate in endgame events.

I wanna be able to be *immersed* in the virtual and go on these events/ADVENTURES!

And if I want to, go and level "the old way" too, cuz just bashing something's head in over and over can be fun too.

[magnius]

I like Abyssea too, but i am for the above level 70 Access

If you left it at that, I don't think anyone woulda said anything, but you added outlandish statements that were not supported from any sort data or statements from SE, which is what people's issue was.

[Zeitzone]

If you left it at that, I don't think anyone woulda said anything, but you added outlandish statements that were not supported from any sort data or statements from SE, which is what people's issue was.

No, ppl just turn my words in my mouth around, i sayd that all late changes in the game showing that SE do not want leechers, thats why you can make FoV all day, thats why they raised the exp outside auf Abyssea.
See is trying to stop the leeching with this. Se allways tryed to prevent leeching in this game, thats why there has always been the 3 level gap for exp.
SE knows that they cant forbbide the leeching, neighter they care if all leeching disapears, but the amount of leeching is definitely to high for this game.

Those ppl just want to flame, thats why they turn the words in every mouth around or grab for any straw to flame.

[Greatguardian]

The "3 level gap" is a player-contrived rule. All EXP to lower level players is penalized based on the formula:

(Player level / Highest Level in party) * (Base Exp) = Adjusted Exp.

Players simply decided that 3 levels is the ideal level range in which people are able to contribute to the party and not get gimped exp.

Square Enix did adjust FoV and Overworld EXP. But I do not believe that was in order to prevent leeching. I think they simply wanted to give players options, and make things easier on newer players who did not have the resources to leech in Abyssea.

If the Development Team felt that players were doing something that they did not intend to allow in the game, they would have instituted a direct nerf to it. When players were DRK Zerging Absolute Virtue, they nerfed Souleater's effect on him. When players were Height-Pinning Ironclads, they adjusted the Z-coordinate range for AoE attacks. When players were duplicating Salvage armor, it was patched and people were banned.

Abyssea Leeching, like Summoner Burning, has received tacit approval from the Development team. They made the game world, but they're not here to tell us how to play within it. I think, if anything, the Devs would enjoy seeing the different ways we players can utilize the system they gave us. They are not trying to force us to only play one way; that defeats the entire purpose of creating an online community. No one has the right to try and speak for them.

[Nacht]

Se allways tryed to prevent leeching in this game, thats why there has always been the 3 level gap for exp.
SE knows that they cant forbbide the leeching, neighter they care if all leeching disapears, but the amount of leeching is definitely to high for this game.


First things first. Spell-check, please.

Next, as long as the melees were around the same level, it didn't matter that much if the support was lower. You can have a bard and healer much lower than the DDs and the party would be fine. 3 level gap was more like: if a DD is more than 3 levels below the highest person, then they were going to miss way too much.

Finally, if SE was so adamant about leeching, they would have done something about smn burning a long time ago.

[Mrbeansman]

No, ppl just turn my words in my mouth around, i sayd that all late changes in the game showing that SE do not want leechers, thats why you can make FoV all day, thats why they raised the exp outside auf Abyssea.
See is trying to stop the leeching with this. Se allways tryed to prevent leeching in this game, thats why there has always been the 3 level gap for exp.
SE knows that they cant forbbide the leeching, neighter they care if all leeching disapears, but the amount of leeching is definitely to high for this game.

Those ppl just want to flame, thats why they turn the words in every mouth around or grab for any straw to flame.

Can you make a single argument that isn't based on your personal opinion?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Can you make a single argument that isn't based on your personal opinion?Can you make an argumant without personal opinion? Is that possible?

[Mrbeansman]

Can you make an argumant without personal opinion? Is that possible?

You can make arguments that are based on facts unreal I know.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

*facepalm* good lord........ ignoring Zeit might be the best thing, for both sides, sorry Zeit but your making my side look bad -.-

We can sit her and argue all we want, but to be honest, it is going to be up to SE, they changed EXP in old zones, because they did see the problem Abyssea has caused. If they have to they will take if further, what direction will they go? We have no clue. You can give me what ever reason you want that raising the cap is a bad idea, but none of your answers hold up, and ours do.

FFXI is being hurt by Abyssea, and SE will do something about it, if not right away, some time soon.

[Mrbeansman]

FFXI is being hurt by Abyssea, and SE will do something about it, if not right away, some time soon.

Opinion not fact.

[Orson]

FFXI is being hurt by Abyssea, and SE will do something about it, if not right away, some time soon.

"FFXI where did Abyssea touch you? Show us on the doll."

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Opinion not fact.It's your opinion that that is not fact. lol

[Mrbeansman]

It's your opinion that that is not fact. lol

ITT: Opinions are facts.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Can you make an argumant without personal opinion? Is that possible?
You can make arguments that are based on facts unreal I know.
ITT: Opinions are facts.So then it was opinion? I'm confused now.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Opinion not fact.

all none abyssea zones are pretty close to being bare
FACT

AH is very low if not empty on alot of lower level gear
FACT

it is hard to do almost anything outside of Abyssea, unless you level a job when you get to 30 (this is a new player problem)
FACT

all three of these are hurting FFXI, and causing a dommino effect, that us effecting other areas of the game as well

[Mrbeansman]

all none abyssea zones are pretty close to being bare
FACT

AH is very low if not empty on alot of lower level gear
FACT

it is hard to do almost anything outside of Abyssea, unless you level a job when you get to 30 (this is a new player problem)
FACT

all three of these are hurting FFXI, and causing a dommino effect, that us effecting other areas of the game as well

1. People only used 4 zones for leveling before abyssea
FACT

2. AH was like that before abyssea
FACT

3.Your only using your Eyeballs to make that incorrect statement
FACT

[Tsukino_Kaji]

1. People only used 4 zones for leveling before abyssea
FACTI can think of at least 13 off of the top of my head.

[Nacht]

I can think of at least 13 off of the top of my head.

Abyssea has 9 + dunes, qufim, junglesx2 = 13

[Mrbeansman]

I can think of at least 13 off of the top of my head.

I'm sorry 4 zones regularly. Things like crawlers nest and quicksand caves don't count at this point.

[Greatguardian]

I can think of at least 13 off of the top of my head.

Before Abyssea =/= Before Treasures of Aht Urhgan.

Just because people weren't able to snag an East Ronfaure [S] camp and occasionally defaulted to shit-tier camps in Garlaige Citadel doesn't mean they were prime leveling spots.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Before Abyssea =/= Before Treasures of Aht Urhgan.

Just because people weren't able to snag an East Ronfaure [S] camp and occasionally defaulted to shit-tier camps in Garlaige Citadel doesn't mean they were prime leveling spots.The 13 was post TAU, pre-TAU is somewhere closer to 20.

[Greatguardian]

The 13 was post TAU, pre-TAU is somewhere closer to 20.

I'd like this list. I'm legitimately curious as to what you're considering popularly utilized camps.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I'd like this list. I'm legitimately curious as to what you're considering popularly utilized camps.
1. People only used 4 zones for leveling before abyssea
FACTFirst off he said leveling, not camps, so this would include Saruta/Ronfaure/Gustaburg. There's 3.

[Greatguardian]

First off he said leveling, not camps, so this would include Saruta/Ronfaure/Gustaburg. There's 3.

Okay. I'm asking for a list that doesn't involve solo exp, because the "Problem" with Abyssea is that it prevents group EXP. What areas were people partying in en masse before Abyssea (but after all other previous Expansions/Updates, Abyssea MUST be the isolated cause) that people no longer party in?

Random camps that people went off to explore in on occasion don't count either, because people still do this post-Abyssea.

[Mrbeansman]

First off he said leveling, not camps, so this would include Saruta/Ronfaure/Gustaburg. There's 3.

Given that I may have been exaggerating a tad bit my point still stands other zones wont magically all be full by getting rid of abyssea leaching.

[HFX7686]

FFXI is being hurt by Abyssea, and SE will do something about it, if not right away, some time soon.

Abyssea completely renewed interest in playing for myself and my spouse. We were bored with the old stuff. We really like Abyssea and hope that SE continues along the brilliant path they've been going down lately.

At least no more 'Wings of the Goddess' type expansions.

[Nacht]

Okay. I'm asking for a list that doesn't involve solo exp, because the "Problem" with Abyssea is that it prevents group EXP. What areas were people partying in en masse before Abyssea (but after all other previous Expansions/Updates, Abyssea MUST be the isolated cause) that people no longer party in?

Random camps that people went off to explore in on occasion don't count either, because people still do this post-Abyssea.

Korroloka Tunnel. Abyssea is preventing people from SMN burning en masse (due to lack of people paying for spots), requiring people to find other ways to level from 10-30 so that they can leech in Abyssea.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Solution: Open abyssea and make mobs chain XP normaly.
Not everyone's happy still.

[Greatguardian]

1 item does not a list make. Also wat, people still SMN burn jobs up to 30 to enter Abyssea.

[HFX7686]

Solution: Open abyssea and make mobs chain XP normaly.
Not everyone's happy still.

Why is changing Abyssea the only solution available?

Honestly, if you don't like it that much, team up with all those other people who supposedly don't like it, and don't go there.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Why is changing Abyssea the only solution available?

Honestly, if you don't like it that much, team up with all those other people who supposedly don't like it, and don't go there.I was being facetious. People just need to learn that abyssea is how the game is now and live with it. Like how dynamis is going to be an open zone soon, so too, one day in the future will abyssea.

[Nacht]

1 item does not a list make. Also wat, people still SMN burn jobs up to 30 to enter Abyssea.

Really? A few people had to pay some previously well known smn burner to do smn burns specifically for them.

[Mrbeansman]

Also wat, people still SMN burn jobs up to 30 to enter Abyssea.

Hey man it works even better then it used to now.

[Greatguardian]

Really? A few people had to pay some previously well known smn burner to do smn burns specifically for them.

I'm not sure I see your point at all. The initial assertion was that people level in fewer zones now than they did before Abyssea. I highly doubt Smn burning was included in their list either way. That said, so what if people are no longer merc'ing it as often? It still happens on my server if people want a sub leveled or somesuch; just with friends rather than merc groups (then again, Merc'ing burns was never very popular on my server).

Edit: @Beans, a-yup

[Nacht]

I'm not sure I see your point at all.

I was trying to make a joke. :(

[Greatguardian]

I was trying to make a joke. :(

Oh. I suck :(

[Chronofantasy]

I'm not sure I see your point at all. The initial assertion was that people level in fewer zones now than they did before Abyssea. I highly doubt Smn burning was included in their list either way. That said, so what if people are no longer merc'ing it as often? It still happens on my server if people want a sub leveled or somesuch; just with friends rather than merc groups (then again, Merc'ing burns was never very popular on my server).

Edit: @Beans, a-yup

I rarely see SMN burns on my server much anymore. If people have a sub to lvl they'll leech it in abyssea, and I think they grind the old way to 30, but I could be wrong since I'm barely out of Abyssea myself.

[Greatguardian]

I rarely see SMN burns on my server much anymore. If people have a sub to lvl they'll leech it in abyssea, and I think they grind the old way to 30, but I could be wrong since I'm barely out of Abyssea myself.

Oh I know. The subs I'm talking about are pre-30, haha. I know quite a few melee-only players who took Abyssea as an opportunity to level a mage job and now have to go out and level a bunch of subs they left untouched. I'm not saying Smn burns are common, just that they still happen occasionally.

[Nacht]

Oh I know. The subs I'm talking about are pre-30, haha. I know quite a few melee-only players who took Abyssea as an opportunity to level a mage job and now have to go out and level a bunch of subs they left untouched. I'm not saying Smn burns are common, just that they still happen occasionally.

I have no idea honestly, I'm just going by what the guys in my LS said when they were burning their jobs up from 10-30. Also, I appear to be on the same server as Chronofantasy, so what he said applies about how people don't smn burn on quetz.

[Mrbeansman]

Oh I know. The subs I'm talking about are pre-30, haha. I know quite a few melee-only players who took Abyssea as an opportunity to level a mage job and now have to go out and level a bunch of subs they left untouched. I'm not saying Smn burns are common, just that they still happen occasionally.

If I was to fold on anything in this debate it would be this. I don't wanna imagine leveling magic skills after leaching a mage job to 90.

[Greatguardian]

If I was to fold on anything in this debate it would be this. I don't wanna imagine leveling magic skills after leaching a mage job to 90.

Eh it wasn't so bad for me. I took RDM 37-90 after only having PLD and WHM at 75+ that could use common magic skills. With /SCH, tossing nukes out while I was healing parties 50+ capped my Elemental skill without much trouble. Dark was a pain in the ass, but it got there after a couple days of just using my Rdm and making sure to drain/aspir/bio stuff whenever timers were up.

Divine and Enfeebling are incredibly easy to cap with Hpemde. The only really annoying one is Healing magic, which doesn't really affect too much that I know of anyways.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Okay. I'm asking for a list that doesn't involve solo exp, because the "Problem" with Abyssea is that it prevents group EXP. What areas were people partying in en masse before Abyssea (but after all other previous Expansions/Updates, Abyssea MUST be the isolated cause) that people no longer party in?

Random camps that people went off to explore in on occasion don't count either, because people still do this post-Abyssea.

no that is not the problem... the problem is that Abyssea has it to where most gear and zones in the 30-70 range are almost pointless. This in turn has thrown the whole game out of whack.

over half the items in the game have now become worthless, and that effects crafting, in turn effect the AH, and in turn effects the over all game.

Even if it was made to where 70 was required to enter Abyssea, and EXP was future enhanced outside of it, there would at least still be a need for the gear again to a point and restore some of the balance that Abyssea has destroyed.

[Greatguardian]

no that is not the problem... the problem is that Abyssea has it to where most gear and zones in the 30-70 range are almost pointless. This in turn has thrown the whole game out of whack.

over half the items in the game have now become worthless, and that effects crafting, in turn effect the AH, and in turn effects the over all game.

Even if it was made to where 70 was required to enter Abyssea, and EXP was future enhanced outside of it, there would at least still be a need for the gear again to a point and restore some of the balance that Abyssea has destroyed.

Level Sync destroyed the balance you're thinking of, not Abyssea. People only needed 3 sets past Qufim Island (where you could exp naked and be effective); East Ronfaure [S] set, Wajaom Woodlands/Bhaflau 55-65 set, and 75+ set.

[rog]

no that is not the problem... the problem is that Abyssea has it to where most gear and zones in the 30-70 range are almost pointless. This in turn has thrown the whole game out of whack.

over half the items in the game have now become worthless, and that effects crafting, in turn effect the AH, and in turn effects the over all game.

Even if it was made to where 70 was required to enter Abyssea, and EXP was future enhanced outside of it, there would at least still be a need for the gear again to a point and restore some of the balance that Abyssea has destroyed.Why is that a problem?

[Nacht]

The only really annoying one is Healing magic, which doesn't really affect too much that I know of anyways.

350 healing skill adds about 50 base hp to cure5 compared to 0 skill, so... no, it doesn't really do much.