Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[Ezikiel]

posting where relevant check it out give feedback

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2316-Exp-Merits

[vordox]

So instead of Abyssea burning, we will be stuck in East Ronfaure [S] and Qufim? Or Astral Burning?

People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. Trying to change it is just imposing your nostalgia on others. If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.

It is nice to see the everyone gets a trophy age, think that the grind us old players had to go through sucked. When it is people like you that ruined the game and complained it is to hard. I have a nice Dora game you may like to play it is more your speed. You never die and is a straight line to the end.

[Mrbeansman]

Here is exactly how this argument has gone

Us: You can level however you want to and if you can make money doing it then do it

Them: You can level however we want you too and if you can make money doing it we'll take it

[Skybrit]

We will have to agree to disagree. Already had to leave one server because most jobs 30 plus had gone to Abyss and other areas were deserted. People left the game because the regular community was dying, the AH died, and new players would not stay. You have to realize that many people are not trying to "beat the game" and get to 90 and aquire the top gear. To a lot of players it is a community that they come to and enjoy some challenges with friends and a world they travel and enjoy. Its just two different game philosophies and because goals differ, so do methods. Unfortunately, the pursuit of one by some makes life hard in the game for others.

[Mrbeansman]

We will have to agree to disagree. Already had to leave one server because most jobs 30 plus had gone to Abyss and other areas were deserted. People left the game because the regular community was dying, the AH died, and new players would not stay. You have to realize that many people are not trying to "beat the game" and get to 90 and aquire the top gear. To a lot of players it is a community that they come to and enjoy some challenges with friends and a world they travel and enjoy. Its just two different game philosophies and because goals differ, so do methods. Unfortunately, the pursuit of one by some makes life hard in the game for others.

Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

[Ezikiel]

It is nice to see the everyone gets a trophy age, think that the grind us old players had to go through sucked. When it is people like you that ruined the game and complained it is to hard. I have a nice Dora game you may like to play it is more your speed. You never die and is a straight line to the end.

I grinded BST the hard way and it did suck now beasts get all xp whether or not they have pet and im not mad at them for making it easier

[Rocman]

Being a FFXI player since the game first came out on the ps2, I agree with Krystal. It has gotten way too easy to level now. The first week or two i loved it, then as i got 5 jobs from 75-90 in a week or two I realized that most of the fun has been taking out of this game. I think SE should balance it a little bit. I like the idea of increasing the aby level to 75+. I think if we can keep it to once your 90 keep things how they are with the easy solo, easy merits, ect. but from levels 1-75 i think should go back to the old way, that way you have to work to get to your 75 job, there will be parties again. And once you hit 75 you get to 90 easy in aby. Thats just me though.. Honestly i love the game and will keep playing no matter what but i do believe this way would make it better for everyone..

[Ramsos]

The problem that you complainers dont realize is that if they raise the lvl cap in abyssea, it will kill abyssea exp as it is right now. I know some people like krystal are just trolling, but the majority of you people supporting him/her/it dont realize the ramifications of the proposal here. Without low lvl leechers, there is no one to open boxes. Very few 75+ players would agree to waste their cruor opening boxes instead of fighting and skilling up.

We all hate afk leechers, but removing key people would destroy the system as it is right now. Its all well and good to claim that you want people to go back to the old way of lvling where it took forever to find a pt and even if you found one it would suck more often than not, but if that actually happened, good players who already have multiple jobs would simply stop lvling new jobs and you complainers would be stuck with the bottom of the barrel people who fulltime 5/5 perle/aurore/teal gear.

[Rocman]

Thats not entirely true. Honestly even a 75 job is pretty worthless unless its a backline job, at 75 drg i couldnt hit the one at all missing pretty much every swing and when it does hit its for a 0-3 dmg. So a 75 job can easily be a key whore.

[Krystal]

Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

and what do you do when your close friends have left the game due to the fact they don't like FFXI in it's current state? HHMMM? mr.i have a solution to everything.

[Alkalinehoe]

Being a FFXI player since the game first came out on the ps2, I agree with Krystal. It has gotten way too easy to level now. The first week or two i loved it, then as i got 5 jobs from 75-90 in a week or two I realized that most of the fun has been taking out of this game. I think SE should balance it a little bit. I like the idea of increasing the aby level to 75+. I think if we can keep it to once your 90 keep things how they are with the easy solo, easy merits, ect. but from levels 1-75 i think should go back to the old way, that way you have to work to get to your 75 job, there will be parties again. And once you hit 75 you get to 90 easy in aby. Thats just me though.. Honestly i love the game and will keep playing no matter what but i do believe this way would make it better for everyone..
Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could "leech" a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

[Ramsos]

Thats not entirely true. Honestly even a 75 job is pretty worthless unless its a backline job, at 75 drg i couldnt hit the one at all missing pretty much every swing and when it does hit its for a 0-3 dmg. So a 75 job can easily be a key whore.

I dont mean that a 75 is as useful as a 90 in an abyssea pt. I mean that its a whole lot easier to convince a lvl 30 player to be a keyleech than a 75. A lvl 30 player is going to be completely useless in an abyssea pt aside from keying boxes, with how fast exp goes in abyssea a 75 wouldnt take all that long to become a contributing member and at that point they wouldnt want to be a keyleech anymore.

[Greatguardian]

When my RDM dinged 70, after leeching exp in Abyssea (Keyed) from 37+, starting with an Elemental Skill of 86 (at level 37), it was able to outdamage the other 17 members of the alliance combined. On Red Mage. Nuking. Starting with 86 Elemental Skill (though /SCH eliminated that disadvantage). Being useless at 75 and/or 90 is a symptom of being shit tier. And yes, high tier players really would probably just plain stop exp'ing without Abyssea. We all have the jobs we want at 90 already anyways. The only reason any of us would exp now is to level a new job for funsies or for a Maat's Cap, also for funsies. Both of these are usually done because they're easy now. I wouldn't have bothered with a 7th job if I had to dredge through Crawler's Nest one more time.

[Rocman]

Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could "leech" a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

The only problem i have really is that it is impossible to find a party outside of aby. Soloing or duoing gets boring, i miss having the old time parties. Plus like i said the game is alot easier now then it was before, yes i like being able to solo things that i couldnt before but its gotten way outta hand. I helped a new player get his rank 3 last week and i didnt know the removed the level cap, i killed those dragons in like 2 hits. Wheres the fun in that? Where is the old time allys to do missions/quests. Yes i miss that. This game is way too easy now.

[Krystal]

Why is it easy? Leveling was never hard, just time consuming. You also seem to think leveling = "fun" which is not the case. I could leech a job then skill it up much faster than leveling the "normal" way.

People here also think that leeching in itself is bad. Look, it's not like I'm popping up to random parties /anon on my 30 mnk, I'm leeching through friend's parties or making my own (usually the former) and they have no problem with it (since we usually take turns). So why do you?

Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...

[Alkalinehoe]

Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...
Again, if your comprehension wasn't the same as a rock you would have noticed that i said both ways are easy. One is just less time consuming.

[Ezikiel]

I have warned you about arguing with Krystal before on this she is not gonna change her mind neither will you just state how you feel and move on

[Mrbeansman]

I have warned you about arguing with Krystal before on this she is not gonna change her mind neither will you just state how you feel and move on

You don't know that gotta have some hope.

[Ezikiel]

You don't know that gotta have some hope.

163 posts she hasnt bent yet

[Zagen]

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.

In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

[Ezikiel]

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.

In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

Key people are needed and they blow major cruor to do it so they mat as well get benefits of burning low lvl job while giving away their cruor for the good of the party. i just hate the ones who instantly grab all the dam KI's

[Ramsos]

My argument is not that a 75 person is less efficient than a 30 for keying boxes. My argument is that a 75 is not going to want to waste cruor opening boxes while a 30 has no choice in the matter.

[Mrbeansman]

My argument is not that a 75 person is less efficient than a 30 for keying boxes. My argument is that a 75 is not going to want to waste cruor opening boxes while a 30 has no choice in the matter.

What is it with you people and your baseless assumptions

[Ramsos]

What is it with you people and your baseless assumptions

Find me a 75 who enjoys wasting their cruor by keying boxes instead of skilling up.

[Krystal]

Lets assume a few things you get 18 75+ people together and they are able to kill La Thaine Worms in 10-20 seconds per party/group(DDs, Mages) so that would be 3 monsters every 10-20 seconds (sounds like an efficient group). You've already capped lights on most people so almost all monsters are dropping chests. Lets also assume the person running around popping the chests is making sure not to waste keys so they are checking them before popping. Now lets account for lag on their part and say it takes them 5-10 seconds to check a chest.


In 1 minute at 20 second x3 kills that's a total of 9 chests.
At 5 (assume 6 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 10 chests per minute at peek performance. This leaves them 6 seconds to do something.
At 10 (assume 11 w/ Key Macro) seconds per chest that means a person popping chests can open 5 per minute leaving 4 unopened.

You can argue you don't need to check Red chests but to that I say people come and go for various reasons.
You can argue you don't need to check Gold chests if you're after EXP/Cru/TE but to that I say the moment 1 person takes a KI/item and others notice drama will ensue.
You could argue well everyone can help pop chests but to that I say it tends to lead to multiple people checking chests which leads to kills slowing down for various reasons which means EXP/TE/Cru slow down as well.

I guess if the level 75+ is a mage they could toss out a spell in those 6 seconds they have to spare since that doesn't require running up to a monster.

So how is a level 75+ key person any less of a leech than the level 30+ person?

Neither of them really have time to do anything else assuming your group is decently efficient.

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

[Ramsos]

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

Because there were no 75 noobs before abyssea existed, right?

[Mrbeansman]

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

You've made at least 7 threads and have not listened to a single thing in any of them. We have told you over and over why this is wrong you just seem to have zero comprehension skills.

[Krystal]

Because there were no 75 noobs before abyssea existed, right?

*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

[Krystal]

You've made at least 7 threads and have not listened to a single thing in any of them. We have told you over and over why this is wrong you just seem to have zero comprehension skills.

no actually..i just don't understand the "lazy player" Language...so maybe if you changed your accent abit.........:P

[Greatguardian]

Krystal used the Konami Code to give her Strawmen infinite lives.

[Rocman]

I really like Krystal...

[HFX7686]

*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

Who are you to decide what the proper way to level is?

[Greatguardian]

Who are you to decide what the proper way to level is?

An elite, hardcore player who can do missions without a walkthrough and shit. It's Starcade syndrome at its finest.

[Mrbeansman]

*rolls eyes* there will be players who don't know the job..sure..that's a given...but MOST OF THEM..will know it if they leveled the job outside of abyssea the proper way. no smn burns...so level sync leaching...the proper way.

Actually a great majority (not minority which you are so fond of) won't.

[hiko]

Icestein, I think that's an important point being overlooked by a lot of the complaints about leeching.

Many of the leechers are LS mates/friends of the leader of either the alliance or individual parties, and thus usually have certain rules that apply to the leechers. Maybe they are more offended that they can't get into a party to leech because the leaders have restrictions?

When we started doing it, you could only leech if you were opening boxes--thus, once we hit 3 leeches, no more were allowed. Everyone had to ask beforehand, and we kept a list of people and had a priority--you had to wait your turn.

Now, we have several people who can cleave for us, and a few RDM's to buff them. So, we'll set a day to tag team the WAR and RDM roles, make a list of attendees, and make a day out of it. The new rule is if you want to leech, you HAVE to bring and USE 100 keys BEFORE you can go AFK. We hold a spot for the first 18 people who sign up for it, and only take new members when they leave (or get dropped). If you go AFK without opening keys, or otherwise making plans to do so when someone finishes their spot...then you get bumped. It's crazy when a new group comes in sometimes. 3 or 4 people racing to see who can burn their 100 keys first...heheh.

Raist

HOLY CRAP. 17 flames in the time it took me to write this post. You people need to chill before this thread gets locked too.
racing to open chest can turn to be stupid if they blindly open em (ex leech opening 2h chest => the war kill next wave slower)


See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.


spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)
I learned more on BLU while PTing with good BLU than i did when i had acces to an alt with blu and farm the missings spells

and what do you do when your close friends have left the game due to the fact they don't like FFXI in it's current state? HHMMM? mr.i have a solution to everything.
Do yourself a favor (and most of us too) since you seem to don't like how FFXI become: follow em out of the game


Ya...your opinions on this matter are pretty much....well...i wouldn't say invalid since you do prove a point....Players want to gain levels the "easy way" and not the way that made this game great in the first place. so i suppose you did prove that point...

i never found the old system great, it's so great that i had a SINGLE 75 job for years,(before aht urgan release) did missions, events with that job (that wasn't even a top job) got my second 75 job AFTER wing of goddes release (and did near half >60 in campaign) and rather playing a "not top job" or left if i couldnt do "event" with my jobs than leveling the old boring way

[Greatguardian]

When was Level Sync released again? Maybe the solution is to simply link to the BG Gimp/Confused/WTF threads that existed *Prior* to all of these things. I assure you there were plenty of bad players in there. Heck, I think I make a cameo in one of them from like '06-'07 \o/. Man, that was bad.

[Skybrit]

Fair enough I guess, I mean it's not like you could just get together with those close friends and level the old fashion way oh wait.

Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

[Greatguardian]

Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

I would say that I've personally seen far more players joining or coming back to the game than leaving, but someone somewhere would probably call them all bad people for wanting to come back when exp is less annoying or something.

[Mrbeansman]

Read before you reply please. Those people are going away because that part of the game is suffering.

Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

[Skybrit]

Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

No, these are friends along with others that are leaving the game. You can dig into your list and build parties and I do. It just gets harder and harder to do. I left a dying server and started a new LS and we do party together. I just don't want to see this server die out like my last one for the same reasons

Also, on the key issue. Why can't an Abyssea party share the cost of the keys? By the way, I am not trying to do away with Abyss, I have 90 jobs and do go in myself sometimes. I would just like to see both types of play survive.

[Greatguardian]

Also, on the key issue. Why can't an Abyssea party share the cost of the keys? By the way, I am not trying to do away with Abyss, I have 90 jobs and do go in myself sometimes. I would just like to see both types of play survive.

I don't know about you, but if I feel the need to bless a party with my presence I dare say I won't be paying to do it. They should consider themselves lucky I'm not charging them.

[Krystal]

Do you really only play this game with total strangers? I find it hard to believe that none of these people can dig into their friends list or linkshell and not find 5 like minded individuals to do this with.

and what of the new players with no friendlist or the ones who friends have left? no one ever looks at anything beyond their own clouded vision...i swear...i have looked at all aspects and have determined many causes and possible fixes to make FFXI a more enjoyable place for us all. and yet lazy players seem to think my ideas"are not fun" or they go"i'll ragequit if that happens" when what it boils down to is this...they won't...if cap gets raised they will bitch...they will fume...but they won't ragequit. also i have already noticed a possibly quote counter insult in my reply so i have this to say in response to it. My vision is not clouded. it's your views who seem to only be seeing one end"the easy way to get to level 90 and go woot to brag about my e-peen!" i'm going to laugh my ass off when all these lazy players lose their level 90s and start raging in the forums when FFXI does get shut either due to abyssea not getting fixed or just simple age of the game. to me..this is just a game. but a game i enjoy and will ride out till the end...providing SE don't murder it first with any farther updates that make the whiners and complainers about"this game is too hard!" happy. with each Update to make this game"easier" the more players they lose...when the exp increase was introduced 15 people on my friendlist left with their messages saying"game is too easy....no challenge anymore." or a likewise message.

[Greatguardian]

and what of the new players with no friendlist or the ones who friends have left? no one ever looks at anything beyond their own clouded vision...i swear...i have looked at all aspects and have determined many causes and possible fixes to make FFXI a more enjoyable place for us all. and yet lazy players seem to think my ideas"are not fun" or they go"i'll ragequit if that happens" when what it boils down to is this...they won't...if cap gets raised they will bitch...they will fume...but they won't ragequit. also i have already noticed a possibly quote counter insult in my reply so i have this to say in responce to it. My vision is not clouded. it's your views who seem to only be seeing one end"the easy way to get to level 90 and go woot to brag about my e-peen!" i'm going to laugh my ass off when all these lazy players lose their level 90s and start raging in the forums when FFXI does get shut either due to abyssea not getting fixed or juts simple age of the game. to me..this is just a game. but a game i enjoy and will ride out till the end...providing SE don't murder it first with any farther updates that make the whiners and complainers about"this game is too hard!" happy. with each Update to make this game"easier" the more players they lose...when the exp increase was introduced 15 people on my friendlist left with their messages saying"game is too easy....no challenge anymore." or a likewise message.

You just have lots of strawmen. There's a huge difference. All of the people you say are being slighted, and doing the slighting, are hypothetical plebes whose numbers you inflate because you "feel" they should be at a certain level. You're not noticing any trend because it's there. You're noticing what you want to notice.

[Odintius]

I say let the main leader in alliance have the option to set rules for exp level limit. Then another rule if your not engage on cause any damage on a mob in like 2minute time frame you dont gain exp.

[Greatguardian]

I say let the main leader in alliance have the option to set rules for exp level limit.

I have no problem with this. But if they're at all competent they should know what the levels of their party members are in the first place. I suppose it does help prevent people from staying /anon and trying to trick them, though. And it doesn't really harm anyone.


Then another rule if your not engage on cause any damage on a mob in like 2minute time frame you dont gain exp.

This, however, is just bad for a lot of reasons. WHM and BRD don't exist any more or something?

[Krystal]

You just have lots of strawmen. There's a huge difference. All of the people you say are being slighted, and doing the slighting, are hypothetical plebes whose numbers you inflate because you "feel" they should be at a certain level. You're not noticing any trend because it's there. You're noticing what you want to notice.

once again attacking my creditability....good lord....people never stop when they get scared...do they?

[Ramsos]

wall of text.

This is incredibly selfish of you to deprive people of being able to leech abyssea. I paid my dues. I had 8 75 jobs before even level sync existed, let alone abyssea. If I feel like leveling a new job, why should I have to struggle with the old way of leveling. It is not hard to learn how to play a job. The wiki works for when you first learn how to play a job, and BG exists for if you actually want to play a job properly.

In essence, why should SE change a system that works so that a small minority can re-live their "glory days" of when leveling was "a challenge". Yeah, I said minority. Come get me.

[Greatguardian]

once again attacking my creditability....good lord....people never stop when they get scared...do they?

I can provide examples of people who sucked before level sync existed. What examples do you have of people who meet the following criteria:

1) Leveled 30-90 in Abyssea for every job they have
2) Have no skills capped, and otherwise totally suck at the game
3) Sane people actually find them credible
4) Sane people actually allow them to influence their gaming experience negatively

Providing examples of players who quit because no one will party with them would be nice, but counterproductive since it only shows that you and other likeminded fellows don't practice what you preach.

Edit: inb4 "Lots of people, everyone knows it, you're just scared"

[Zagen]

Frankly the whole "key master" thing is bogus in my book..but it's a system that "works" well. the diff is this:A level 75 have worked their but off earning their levels outside of abby..so one person out of the lot getting the "easy route" from 75+ being a key master is okay for me. but for any who are lower than that they are simply just wanting to "burn to 90 just to make that job 90" and any who say otherwise is full of crap! becuase a person who worked that job to 75 knows it and actually wants to play it. my idea is this...if you don't like a job....DON'T LEVEL IT! don't leach it to 90 just to brag you have a job at 90..and that's what these abby noobs are doing. they could care less about the job. they just want another level 90 for bragging rights.

Is it bragging when my LS or friends say they need a BLM for yellow !! and I say I have 90 BLM because I burned it in Abyssea over 3 days? How about my MNK that I burned from 42-90 so that my LS and friends would have another tanking option and a solo option for myself? How about my WAR I burned from 35-90 and then skilled all weapons needed for Red !!s so that was another option available? I play those jobs better than a large amount of people I've partied with that were on them and I'm even better geared on them usually. Was that luck on my part since I didn't learn how to play them by leveling outside Abyssea?

I burn jobs because its helpful to myself and/or others. I'm ok with Abyssea burning because I don't see a difference between a level 30+ "key master" and a level 75+ "key master" as I know in a good group it is a full time job and you don't need to be 75+ to know how to do it. I also don't see the difference between a level 30+ newb and a 75+ newb, I take the time to read up/ask questions on a given job so I know how to play it decently, neither of these are done through partying outside of Abyssea.

Also LOL at thinking getting a job to cap gives you bragging rights. Unless you mean offering a job to help a group is bragging about it. Beating Maat on RDM would give you some bragging rights assuming its your first job.

[Odintius]

I for one didnt count in buffer support and whm im sure if your doing your job in healing and buffs ect there be another add rule for them.

[Chrianna]

Why not just let everyone start out at level 70-75 since no one wants to experience the fellowship, exploration, quests, and just satisfaction of gaining a level and being proud of it anymore?

[Krystal]

Troll post

moving on and ignoring the troll.......


I say let the main leader in alliance have the option to set rules for exp level limit. Then another rule if your not engage on cause any damage on a mob in like 2minute time frame you dont gain exp.

That would cause many problems...one of which being the fact that whm and just about any support class would get 0 exp thus screwing them out of it. to bend a tad i would say as i have said before...incur a 85-90% exp penalty for those who are below 70. or just raise the cap to 70 period.

[HFX7686]

I don't think Krystal has realised that he is in a very small minority. I've seen almost no one post in support of him. I hope he really takes a step back and looks at his posts and his opinions and realises that he is trying to force his own viewpoint on a majority who do not want it.

[Odintius]

Read to post above you and was just opinion

[Krystal]

Why not just let everyone start out at level 70-75 since no one wants to experience the fellowship, exploration, quests, and just satisfaction of gaining a level and being proud of it anymore?

you just opened yourself up for flaming...>.< i agree with you completely.....but the trolls are going to be on you like white on rice now. i myself miss these kind of thing. which is why i am trying to make sure SE sees these threads..so people WILL do that kind of thing again....:)

[Gunit]

moving on and ignoring the troll.......

how is that ignoring the post?

also lol
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103316-The-Official-Forums-BG-Edition/page19

[Zagen]

Why not just let everyone start out at level 70-75 since no one wants to experience the fellowship, exploration, quests, and just satisfaction of gaining a level and being proud of it anymore?
When did doing quests/missions/exploring require you to be X level to enjoy them?

Edit: Not counting for those that had min level requirements obviously.

[Krystal]

I don't think Krystal has realised that he is in a very small minority. I've seen almost no one post in support of him. I hope he really takes a step back and looks at his posts and his opinions and realises that he is trying to force his own viewpoint on a majority who do not want it.

oh gee..i wonder why? maybe because users like you have flamed them so damned much they went"oh hell! i'm not gonna take this bulcrap for simply wanting to raise the cap...." you won't get rid of me so easily however.....-_-

[Greatguardian]

Since when was being level 75 an accomplishment?

And I'm saying this having had multiple 75s since before most people here started playing.

[HFX7686]

oh gee..i wonder why? maybe because users like you have flamed them so damned much they went"oh hell! i'm not gonna take this bulcrap for simply wanting to raise the cap...." you won't get rid of me so easily however.....-_-

I've only really seen flaming from you.

[Ramsos]

oh gee..i wonder why? maybe because users like you have flamed them so damned much they went"oh hell! i'm not gonna take this bulcrap for simply wanting to raise the cap...." you won't get rid of me so easily however.....-_-

All this complaining about the game, have you considered just quitting krystal?

[Gunit]

oh gee..i wonder why? maybe because users like you have flamed them so damned much they went"oh hell! i'm not gonna take this bulcrap for simply wanting to raise the cap...." you won't get rid of me so easily however.....-_-

or you know its because no one agrees with you.

[Krystal]

Is it bragging when my LS or friends say they need a BLM for yellow !! and I say I have 90 BLM because I burned it in Abyssea over 3 days? How about my MNK that I burned from 42-90 so that my LS and friends would have another tanking option and a solo option for myself? How about my WAR I burned from 35-90 and then skilled all weapons needed for Red !!s so that was another option available? I play those jobs better than a large amount of people I've partied with that were on them and I'm even better geared on them usually. Was that luck on my part since I didn't learn how to play them by leveling outside Abyssea?

I burn jobs because its helpful to myself and/or others. I'm ok with Abyssea burning because I don't see a difference between a level 30+ "key master" and a level 75+ "key master" as I know in a good group it is a full time job and you don't need to be 75+ to know how to do it. I also don't see the difference between a level 30+ newb and a 75+ newb, I take the time to read up/ask questions on a given job so I know how to play it decently, neither of these are done through partying outside of Abyssea.

Also LOL at thinking getting a job to cap gives you bragging rights. Unless you mean offering a job to help a group is bragging about it. Beating Maat on RDM would give you some bragging rights assuming its your first job.

no..i beat the scholar level 70 cap as my FIRST level cap. and that 70 cap is the hardest in the game for your first 70 cap quest. people can debate all they want that rdm is..but i disagree. having done the rdm cap myself on a previous character.

[HFX7686]

no..i beat the scholar level 70 cap as my FIRST level cap. and that 70 cap is the hardest in the game for your first 70 cap quest. people can debate all they want that rdm is..but i disagree. having done the rdm cap myself on a previous character.

You didn't have a level 75 before SCH came out? Then you are very new player yourself and probably don't understand the torture leveling used to be.

I am starting to see where his posts are coming from...

[Greatguardian]

@Krystal: So really you're just mad that you can't brag about meaningless crap any more? I'd have revoked your bragging rights for being 90 or beating Genkais whether Abyssea existed or not.

[Mutilator]

This is simple, you don't like leechers in abyssea?, or you dont like leveling in abyssea because its too easy? Then form up a group and go level in the old areas the old fashion way. Nobody is stopping you from doing so. I got 3 jobs to 75 old style. I'm not saying that I didn't like because I did, but I like the Abyssea way better. The majority loves Abyssea the way it is.

[Skybrit]

Hang in there Krystal. I know you speak the truth and from your heart. That's part of way you play the game. Like I said, two different game philosophies and we will have to agree to disagree on this. I'll play whatever comes down. I love the game and the people and will continue to help those that I can within the community.

[Ezikiel]

@Krystal: So really you're just mad that you can't brag about meaningless crap any more? I'd have revoked your bragging rights for being 90 or beating Genkais whether Abyssea existed or not.

i was gonna say this all bragging rights were taken away which is only difference

[Dodge]

I think Krystal wrote the Brady guide on FFXI and is finally releasing all the butthurt from realizing the book and her way of doing things are old fashioned and useless, leaving her behind to lfp for hours while mumbling under her breath about those damned lazy players.

The only logical explanation to me is that she liked the slow grind that was forming parties and exp chaining, and somehow believes there is a masochistic minority that agrees with her (and are too shy to publicly agree with her). The 'majority', like myself, find our fun in FFXI by doing other things like getting AF3, empyreans, and hitting/nuking/healing/supporting for massive numbers and taking down NM's.

If not, guess she just wants to watch the world burn...

[Zagen]

no..i beat the scholar level 70 cap as my FIRST level cap. and that 70 cap is the hardest in the game for your first 70 cap quest. people can debate all they want that rdm is..but i disagree. having done the rdm cap myself on a previous character.
SCH fight was annoying not hard (I know it was my first job to 75 on Zagen)

It doesn't compare to a Maat that just refuses to be slept or silenced during Chainspell with capped skill, and some of the best available gear borrowed or owned. Or Asuran Fists. But then again I did that fight years ago back when EXPing in Sky was the place to be lol

[GERM]

no..i beat the scholar level 70 cap as my FIRST level cap. and that 70 cap is the hardest in the game for your first 70 cap quest. people can debate all they want that rdm is..but i disagree. having done the rdm cap myself on a previous character.

I haven't tried RDM maat yet since the implementation of composure, but I know origionally it was the hardest fight to do because if sleep didn't stick you died.. Looking forward to doing it again though..

[Greatguardian]

Deleted by moderator

Please try.

[Kuishen]

Deleted by moderator

Oh my god please do.

[Ramsos]

Deleted by moderator

Please announce when you are going to try this, I want popcorn ready.

[Krystal]

and i laugh my ass off at your pathetic attempts to flame me off the forums. if you think little insults are enough to piss me off to the point of leaving....

Highlight this>>>Keep posting.......XD<<<

moving on topic....something needs to be done about abyssea..case and point.

[Kuishen]

moving on topic....something needs to be done about abyssea..case and point.

No it doesn't, SE made it that way for a reason. Shut the fuck up.

[Greatguardian]

and i laugh my ass off at your pathetic attempts to flame me off the forums. if you think little insults are enough to piss me off to the point of leaving....

Highlight this>>>Keep posting.......XD<<<

moving on topic....something needs to be done about abyssea..case and point.

Case in point is only applicable when you attempt to prove your entire argument is valid using a single example. That is the case, in a single point.

E.g.: "All apples are tasty. Case in point: This tasty apple."

[magnius]

How is this going for 80+ pages? I didn't know gaining experience points was such a huge deal. I see getting a 90 job is a step towards a greater means. Maybe it's something they want to accomplish as a goal -- which can be one of many. I'm sure if it was one of many goals, they don't want to spend weeks of it accomplishing it. Maybe the goal of leveling a job to 90 can help their group of friends to kill more efficiently. I'm not here to list all the possible goals a person has, and I'm not sure why people would want to govern the method of how other players level their jobs. SE knows their player base has dropped -- evident from the first server merge -- soon to be two server merges. It's not because of Abyssea since the first merge was before its release. It's because people have met their goals, or they no longer find the game entertaining, or they have long decided to quit before the date and have decided to move on. SE released Abyssea's experience method for a reason. How you interpret it is yours. For me, I think they are prepping for the end of Vana. I've been playing for 8years and I'll stay until the end despite all my friends have quit 5years ago. I made new ones.

I'm incredibly relieved SE released Abyssea and its experience points method. I don't have the pressure of trying to get my jobs up to 90 to accomplish my goal of accumulating my AF3+2s. It's actually made the game fun. I have never once found the old method of exping as fun. I thought it was more of a hindrance. If it takes you 3weeks+ of getting your jobs from 30-75 to learn a job there's something incredibly wrong. I'm greatful SE has made a lot of the old content easier. Newer players would have a chance I never did.

[HFX7686]

Deleted by moderator

This will be brilliant. I look forward to it.

[Gunit]

Deleted by moderator

You should start to post over there.

[Krystal]

I think it's about time this thread got locked tbh. it's served it's purpose. the only people posting now are just outright trying to flame people...which is immature. I myself admit to flaming a few but only in retort.

[Krystal]

You should start to post over there.

you wish..lol that entire forum is trollish

[HFX7686]

you wish..lol that entire forum is trollish

You should fit right in then.

[Kuishen]

I agree that it should be locked.

[Greatguardian]

I think it's about time this thread got locked tbh. it's served it's purpose. the only people posting now are just outright trying to flame people...which is immature. I myself admit to flaming a few but only in retort.

So you openly threaten to launch a cyber-attack on a community website and then ask that the thread be locked because people are flaming you?

Win.

[Kuishen]

you wish..lol that entire forum is trollish

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/small/0912/that-word-inigo-montoya-word-think-means-princess-bride-mand-demotivational-poster-1260739585.jpg

[Gunit]

I think it's about time this thread got locked tbh. it's served it's purpose. the only people posting now are just outright trying to flame people...which is immature. I myself admit to flaming a few but only in retort.

Well lets get back on topic what are the reasons to raise the level cap to enter abyssea?

[Krystal]

So you openly threaten to launch a cyber-attack on a community website and then ask that the thread be locked because people are flaming you?

Win.

no...i am asking it to be locked. because this thread is long overdue derailed.

[Wojo]

A low level abyssea would be cool. One specifically designed for lvl 10-30.

[Krystal]

Beating a dead horse

i've already stated my reasons. i'm just tired of immature trolls flaming everyone every five seconds.

[Zagen]

Well lets get back on topic what are the reasons to raise the level cap to enter abyssea?
From what I can tell Krystal wants getting a job to cap to be a bragging right again because it would be hard to do for the majority of the grinding to cap.

Edit: Oops not hard but tedious, since it was never hard to EXP.

[HFX7686]

no...i am asking it to be locked. because this thread is long overdue derailed.

Asking it to be locked after threatening a cyber-attack on another website is unethical. It's almost like you're trying to hide your comments now.

[Greatguardian]

no...i am asking it to be locked. because this thread is long overdue derailed.

Right. As long as you were able to get your flames and cyber threats in before the lock it's okay. Once you've joined in, you lose the right to request a lock. This thread survived 25 pages of Starcade. I doubt it's going anywhere.

[Gunit]

None of your reasons have any merit.

[HFX7686]

From what I can tell Krystal wants getting a job to cap to be a bragging right again because it would be hard to do for the majority of the grinding to cap.

Is that why he wants an increase? Since when did leveling a job to cap ever give people bragging rights? Maybe in the first couple of months the game was released to North America...but that was almost eight years ago.

I think he has a very odd view of what gives him, or anyone, bragging rights. Mostly I think that bragging rights come from doing events after you've leveled to cap. Perhaps he only has one or two jobs to cap and he hasn't had the chance to do much besides leveling yet? I hope he gets into a good linkshell and can experience more of what the game has to offer him.

[Krystal]

Right. As long as you were able to get your flames and cyber threats in before the lock it's okay. Once you've joined in, you lose the right to request a lock. This thread survived 25 pages of Starcade. I doubt it's going anywhere.

already made the request for a lock.^^

[Unaisis]

/inb4locked

And so ends the rebellion against the Abyssea~

[Odintius]

Im sorry to say none of us have room to talk about been able to only get your view or aka flames comments out. From what i've read so far is alot of im right your wrong it people opinions on stuff people take it to a whole different level then it should be.

An opinion is a subjective statement or thought about an issue or topic, and is the result of emotion or interpretation of facts. An opinion may be supported by an argument, although people may draw opposing opinions from the same set of facts. Opinions rarely change without new arguments being presented. However, it can be reasoned that one opinion is better supported by the facts than another by analysing the supporting arguments.

An opinion may be the result of a person's perspective, understanding, particular feelings, beliefs, and desires. In casual use, the term opinion may refer to unsubstantiated information, in contrast to knowledge and fact-based beliefs

[HFX7686]

Wouldn't be so bad for it to be locked. That would just mean that the thread asking to lower the minimum would be the one people discuss this matter in. It's obviously the more sensible thread.

[hiko]

i wonder...how long would it take a few friends of mine to crash that little website of yours you got going there.

didn't read taht lame excuse since i stop chating on mIRC....

[Greatguardian]

Wouldn't be so bad for it to be locked. That would just mean that the thread asking to lower the minimum would be the one people discuss this matter in. It's obviously the more sensible thread.

I totally did not realize that. Yes, I dare say I don't mind if this thread gets locked. Of course, we know Krystal is already planning to make a new thread with lots of caps lock, bold, font size changes and font color changes in the OP to replace this thread; but it will probably just get locked by the GMs or deleted like 2 of his previous threads on the matter.

[Ramsos]

FACT: 30 cap for abyssea is fine.

FACT: if 30 cap is fine, 1 cap is fine too since both levels contribute the same for the event.

OPINION: Krystal is a troll and should be banned for threatening a cyber attack on a fansite because they disagree with him.

[Krystal]

FACT: 30 cap for abyssea is fine.

FACT: if 30 cap is fine, 1 cap is fine too since both levels contribute the same for the event.

OPINION: Krystal is a troll and should be banned for threatening a cyber attack on a fansite because they disagree with him.

banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

[Kuishen]

banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

Look who's resorted to name-calling now.

[Greatguardian]

banning me eh? might be a blessing them doing that...that way i don't have any reason to come back and see a bunch of lazy players who want easy exp everytime i check the forums...

I thought we already established that I was a credible, non-lazy source.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

A low level abyssea would be cool. One specifically designed for lvl 10-30.

That wont solve the problem, only make it worse, Abyssea is the new endgame, or it was supposed to be. It is one of the reasons Dynamis is getting it's update. SE needs to do one of two things, raise the cap of Abyssea to 65 or 70, or change the way EXP is earned outside Abyssea so that it is at least some what comparable.
As much as I don't like this crazy fast leveling, I would hate it even more if it became nothing but Abyssea Online. ;p

................on a side note... please do no lump Krystal in with others that have my opinion....... please -.-

[rog]

Asking it to be locked after threatening a cyber-attack on another website is unethical. It's almost like you're trying to hide your comments now.If he was trying to hide it, he'd delete the post. Which he can't do if the thread is locked.

[Krystal]

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

[Greatguardian]

Abyssea is not endgame. It is midgame content designed to give us something to do between 75 and 99.

Dynamis is being changed because people have been requesting that SE overhaul old content for *Months* now.

[Chrianna]

So much for intelligent discourse

[Krystal]

I thought we already established that I was a credible, non-lazy source.

your creditability dropped when you began attacking me.

[rog]

your creditability dropped when you began attacking me.
Actually it went up.

[HFX7686]

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

No, I think most of the replies have been collectively responding to everyone's posts. Some people are just stating their opinion and reasons why very politely and sanely. Their opinions are worthwhile and should be taken into consideration. The people being directly responded to are the people, such as yourself, who are being trolls and a bit insane.

[CrystalWeapon]

So much for intelligent discourse

If you follow half the arguements going on in the forums they're:

A) A troll trying to get a rise out of everyone.
B) Genuinely that stupid.
C) Incredibly bored at work.

or a combination of the three. You either get a laugh out of it, or a massive headache.

[xSylarx]

Let them leech you know why no one ever look 4 the dd that goes afk. Only the mages and leeches so let there be cake.

[Unaisis]

Actually it went up.

Heehee that was good ^_^

[Mrbeansman]

heh...i have just now noticed something..it's not that no one is agreeing with me..you guys are IGNORING their posts..i just scanned through this thread...nearly every single post that has sided with my opinion was not replied to and left in the dust.

No we responded with alternatives for you. You in turned proceeded to yell the same arguments over and over in a loud voice.

[Qeepel]

Hey guys, let's try to stay on topic here. I know that this is a popular discussion and there are a lot of passionate opinions out there, so we really don't want to have to lock the thread due to off topic discussions or inflammatory comments. Remember that continued violations of the forum guidelines can also result in disciplinary action to your account.

Please refer to http://support.na.square-enix.com/rule.php?id=20&la=1&tag=forum and http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/117-Welcome-to-Forum-General-Discussion!for more information about the rules. Thank you for understanding!

[Unaisis]

Hey guys, let's try to stay on topic here. I know that this is a popular discussion and there are a lot of passionate opinions out there, so we really don't want to have to lock the thread due to off topic discussions or inflammatory comments. Remember that continued violations of the forum guidelines can also result in disciplinary action to your account.

Please refer to http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/117-Welcome-to-Forum-General-Discussion! for more information about the rules. Thank you for understanding!

Party pooper.... no cake for you

[Jerynh]

This is my second attempt, but just like Krystal said, the posts that side with him/her/it are mostly overlooked. I want to start by saying that I, more or less, am on team Krystal in this debate. I don't like how they're handling it. To be honest, even, I don't think the level cap should be changed, I just think the level cap should have been much higher to begin with.

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives. In all honesty, something was going to happen eventually... I mean, either the game had to eventually end, or content needed to grow to spark interest, and obviously SE is going to try and keep it going, and they chose raising the level cap. Either way, players would and did have that mourning period over the pieces of their lives they've dedicated to a video game.

All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding, but I bet those that did can remember all the camps they used to use and at least 1 story from them that brought them and immersed them into this game. I know I do. And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership... A while back, character buying was a big thing, and a HUGE portion of the community hated it, and shunned the players who did. These days, you wouldn't even know the difference, and it wouldn't matter. It only takes a couple weeks to start from scratch and build up multiple 90's if you're dedicated.

And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

The two main reasons there is a lack of support on Krystals side are as follows...
1. It's a lot of bickering, on both ends.
2. Most people that agree with them already quit.

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

[Ramsos]

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

Two things:

1. Not all people who leveled jobs before abyssea are against the way the game is now, many of us like the curent system.

2. You dont help your argument for "oldschool players" by having your most vocal supporter (Krystal) being a person whose first job is sch, therefore they never lvled the truly hard way before level sync.

[Unaisis]

Ugh in all seriousness the Damage is already done by abyssea~ if it were truly a problem SE would have changed it within the first week. its already been a few months~ changing it now wont mean a thing except ALOT of people upset at SE. To be honest~ SE wont want that headache. @.@

[Komori]

I haven't been playing since the NA release, but have been playing since about 2005; before level sync and before abyssea and I worked my way up to there to 75 without abyssea. But I'm all for the level cap staying where it is.

[CrystalWeapon]

Two things:

1. Not all people who leveled jobs before abyssea are against the way the game is now, many of us like the curent system.

2. You dont help your argument for "oldschool players" by having your most vocal supporter (Krystal) being a person whose first job is sch, therefore they never lvled the truly hard way before level sync.

^ Is one of those "oldschool players" who leveled the hard way and I could care less if they raise or lower the cap to abyssea. If I'm in a party and there are so many leechers that it's slowing things down, or they're so horrible they can't understand how to play their job, I just leave plain and simple. I think I said this before, raising the cap will do absolutely nothing. The people that leech now would just change tactics to lv sync'ing in the old camps and burns. The "hard way" of exp'ing has been dead for a long time now. A decent DD in abyssea should be shaving off most of the mobs hp in one weaponskill. Blackmage can kill most mobs in 2 nukes, a few leechers in the group never bothered me.

[Byrth]

I'd rather have level 1s with keys than some of the 75+ "DDs" that I've seen in pickup parties. You know it's bad when the WAR skilling up with two augmented clubs is doing about half the alliance's damage.

[rog]

Ugh in all seriousness the Damage is already done by abyssea~
What damage?

[Chrianna]

This is my second attempt, but just like Krystal said, the posts that side with him/her/it are mostly overlooked. I want to start by saying that I, more or less, am on team Krystal in this debate. I don't like how they're handling it. To be honest, even, I don't think the level cap should be changed, I just think the level cap should have been much higher to begin with.

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives. In all honesty, something was going to happen eventually... I mean, either the game had to eventually end, or content needed to grow to spark interest, and obviously SE is going to try and keep it going, and they chose raising the level cap. Either way, players would and did have that mourning period over the pieces of their lives they've dedicated to a video game.

All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding, but I bet those that did can remember all the camps they used to use and at least 1 story from them that brought them and immersed them into this game. I know I do. And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership... A while back, character buying was a big thing, and a HUGE portion of the community hated it, and shunned the players who did. These days, you wouldn't even know the difference, and it wouldn't matter. It only takes a couple weeks to start from scratch and build up multiple 90's if you're dedicated.

And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

The two main reasons there is a lack of support on Krystals side are as follows...
1. It's a lot of bickering, on both ends.
2. Most people that agree with them already quit.

Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

Summed up:
Our reasons for wanted a higher level cap for Abyssea areas: We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

Thank you.

You express my feelings exactly. Thank you for taking the time to clarify these thoughts.

[Unaisis]

What damage?

ugh, what abyssea haters consider damage~ lol

[Byrth]

You express my feelings exactly. Thank you for taking the time to put things so succinctly.

You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

[Neika]

I think SE intended for Abyssea to be this way because they know that FFXI isn't going to last forever. No new player is going to want to spend all that time grinding and trying to do the missions over and over again til they win when the game might not be running in a couple years. This way new players have a chance to catch up and enjoy the game. I can't really see SE changing the min lvl for abyssea, and i for one hope that they don't. I got my first 2 75's before abyssea, and am glad i have an easier way to do it. that and i find keying chests more fun that just sitting there mindlessly attacking things :D

[Ica]

You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

I don't think that word means what they think it means!

[Lukikii]

Please do not raise the minimum level to enter Abyssea.

I think it's great that new/returning players have a way to jump in and get their levels without taking forever to grind them out. I've seen a handful of new players over the past month or so and I think if they had to grind out the levels the old way, (like we've all done) it would be discouraging for them to continue playing. This way, they can get a job up and get to the fun stuff.

I've leeched 3 of my jobs in Abyssea - BRD and DNC from level 40ish, and SMN from level 57. While SMN and BRD were easy for me to "learn" since I've always had mage jobs, DNC was new to me. When I hit 60 I took DNC to Campaign and did quite a few battles to help me get familiar with my JA's, macros and the job itself. I had also read everything I could on proper gear sets and I asked ls members for advice. My dagger was already capped from my RDM, so I didn't have to worry about skill ups. Then, back to Abyssea for more exp. Ding, 90.

I'm lucky enough to be in a ls that will have one person invite people out to leech doing a few Dominion pages, or go as a small party when an AF item is needed from a chest. No one is judgmental about anyone leeching and we all have fun doing it.

I had only intended to level my DNC as a sub, because I was fond of saying that I only level jobs that keep me away from the mob. Now that I've leveled DNC, I find myself enjoying stabbing mobs up close and personal - and that will probably lead me to level another melee job. In my case, being able to leech opened up an entirely different direction with my character that I had intended.

I don't understand why some of you who want it increased are so rabid about it. How I get my exp doesn't affect you. You'll say it makes me a bad player, but in reality, there are bad players that leveled the "old way" as well. I take the time to research and gear my job. If by some slim-to-none chance we ever end up in a party together, and you don't want me there because I leeched my job, then that's your choice. People don't like being judged for what gear they do/don't wear, or if they don't gear swap or whatever. Those who have leeched shouldn't be judged either.

[RaenRyong]

It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives.

That is because mindlessly grinding is essentially wasting your lives.


Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now. Nobody liked the grinding

But we should re-enforce it just to cater to a small minority's nostalgia despite your acknowledgement that nobody likes it? I dunno about you, but putting a system in a game that nobody enjoys doesn't sound like a smart idea.


But you earned your spot in end-game

Earn your spot in endgame by not sucking and being good at playing rather than hitting a magical number and still being gimp as all hell (as a lot of people were).


Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

Missions that often were extremely difficult if you didn't have specific setups (CoP) - I hope you're levelling the right kind of jobs. What quest rewards are useful? Crafting is (largely) level-independent also.


Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

Most gear from 1-30 and 30-75 was always useless. Most NMs were always useless to kill and it was often silly to camp an NM for a low drop rate item that you can outlevel faster than you can camp it. Most areas were hardly ever visited. Crafting is not useless, just don't suck at it. Most quests have always been useless.


A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to?

Next to nobody was bothering to do those quests even before Abyssea.


We think it will change this game back to the game we used to play. Unfortunately, that game is long gone.

The game you used to play never existed. You're looking at it through rose-tinted glasses.

Gear (DD perspective just to give an example):

1-30: gear doesn't really matter except in extreme cases. Bone => Beetle etc if you really care.
30-55: Acc rings, STR rings depending, some jobs get the odd nice piece (notably MNK/SAM/NIN) otherwise...
55-71: Haubergeon and Jaridah gear with the odd other piece here and there.
72-75: Dusk and endgame gear.

Even if you flesh out your job with loads of different sets early on, 95% of gear is absolutely useless. Always has been.

What NMs were useful to camp? LL, VE, Mee Deggi, Fuma Kyahan guy, Mysticmaker Profblix and maybe a couple of others? Most NMs have always been pretty much useless.

[Lyall]

I'm not sure how to phrase this without coming across as pompous, but I've been on the sidelines of this conversation for a while and I'm finally succumbing to the urge to address or point out some things.

Before Abyssea content got released, I was running out of things to do. I was in a Dynamis shell, did some endgamey things not counting HNM, and basically my time was spent either logging on for an event or logging out and doing something else. I didn't so much "play" the game as I spent time there then left due to obligations. I had something like... six? Seven? Seventy-five jobs. They were all for the most part decently geared, though my ninja was probably lacking quite a bit. Regardless.

Level cap to ninety-nine got announced and I was simultaneously excited and worried. Grinding jobs to cap was a tedious process, and while they were all done the "hard" way (which is slang for "Get into a colibri party" with friends or level sync to colibri parties in Ronfaure or merit on colibri) I wasn't looking forward to those hours being sloughed through in order to bring my jobs back to usability.

Being allowed to quickly bring my jobs up from underleveled was a pleasant distraction before the real meat of the Abyssea expansion: Acquiring gear. Leveling became a formality before the actual lure. I think that's where we are disconnecting.

People who oppose leeching, to generalize and use a stereotype, so forgive me, are the sorts who end up in pick-up or shout parties, belonging to a social shell or a shell without a very dedicated core of work. Leveling a job for prestige now is a dead concept; it has been a dead concept for years now. Maat's Cap is no longer a status icon. Penalizing people who are trying to quickly get subjobs leveled, or hell, even take their ninety Red Mage and turn it into a ninety White Mage isn't a bad thing. People quickly bringing up Monk or Ninja to be able to tank/survive/experiment isn't a bad thing.

As long as people have their job skills (I mean this literally, referring to the numbers on their Status button) leveled there's no harm or no foul. People complaining about leeching are perhaps upset they're doing all the "work" in a party, then? I can understand that to a degree, but if those people don't like it, they are plenty capable of shouting for a party and not inviting a key mule.

I'm losing track of my points here because I've been sitting on this stuff for what feels like years now.

Removing the ability to enter Abyssea before level seventy won't fix anything. As I'm sure has been mentioned previously, taking the experience points and zones away will only lead back to what was the dilemma before: Sync to colibri at Ronfaure, in Wajoam, or in Bhaf. Those camps cannot support large numbers of people; Abyssea can. Those camps don't even prove anything as far as being "gimp" goes; I know plenty of people who got their Maat's Caps when seventy-five was the cap by syncing to Ronfaure. Gimped skills are gimped even if there's only ten levels of difference. To top this off, those camps don't bring in even a fifth of the experience an Abyssea party can rake in. Being supported by a single healer and puller, I was able to bring in something like ninety-two-thousand experience an hour while my shell, who had recently helped me complete my level eighty-five Ukonvasara relaxed on vent. They did me a kindness, I did them one. There's nothing wrong with give and take.

The level thirty cap works. People who want job levels with always take the path of least resistance, don't misjudge the proposed cap as anything other than a problem that will lead us back to overcrowded camps that are the most popular.

I'll try to think of anything I missed because I know I undoubtedly did. Also, Unaisis, while writing this, your banner kept unnerving me because of the horrific curve of the face. I lol'd all the same, though.

For the sake of civil discourse, let anyone commenting do so amicably.

Edit: I apologize for the walls of text.

[Komori]

Although, after I get a few more jobs to abyssea that I would like to try, I intend to; while I'm out skilling them and gearing them up properly, killing older NMs with friends. Just for fun.

This is possibly because getting the jobs I want/need are a week to two week adventure instead of two years. <.<

[Chrianna]

You're either being sarcastic or need to look up the word succinctly.

Thank you I looked up the word and found that I had used the wrong word - I have edited my post. I'm sure my meaning must have been clear however.

[Alkalinehoe]

Wow, I left earlier in the morning for a doctor's appointment then come back for 15~ pages of fun. Pretty much my conclusion about Krystal:

A player who hasn't actually done any endgame activities and doesn't know how to cope when tons of people have much easier access to it. Probably was also going for Maat's cap too until it became lolz. I bet she doesn't gear swap either.

[HFX7686]

I don't think anyone can disagree that the addition of Abyssea areas (including raising the level cap altogether) changed the game completely. It, in fact, made a very large percentage of players feel like they just wasted the last 5 or 7 years of their lives.

As someone who has played since the NA release and has spent a lot of time doing sky, Dynamis, kings, sea, and Salvage I have to tell you that I do not feel my time has been wasted. I enjoyed those things when I did them and I enjoyed working on and receiving the gear that I did. It was time, however, for something new, especially with the level cap increase. I will happily work on all the new gear that has made my old, hard earned gear obsolete and be happy that I have the opprotunity to work on new things.


All the arguments that are stating "Nobody is stopping you from leveling the old way" are just silly. Any hint of "fun" that came with the old grinding style will be gone knowing theres an easier way now.

No one is stopping you from leveling the old way if you want. Find people who are of a like mind and go for it. Just don't try to stop other people leveling a different way if they so choose.


And when you finally reach 75... There's a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, however, and it isn't just about feeling good about yourself. It's also not about "bragging rights". But you earned your spot in end-game, and everyone in the end-game around you also earned their spot. That brings trust, that brings partnership...

You never earnt a spot in an endgame shell because you had a level 75, at least not a good one. You generally had to prove that you could play your job, or at least were willing to learn how to play your job.


And lets not forget that the old way of playing wasn't just boring leveling until end game... There was a ton of stuff to do even though you weren't 75 yet. Missions had level caps that grew as you went deeper into the storyline. Tons of quests, whose rewards were not yet useless, were available. And don't forget crafting.

Most people I talk to hate doing quests and missions. Personally, I do as many as possible. I keep a list of the ones I've done and the ones I've yet to do. Leveling to cap slow or fast really has no bearing on whether or not you do these things.


On the same note as nobody enjoying grinding, nobody enjoyed losing at missions either. But EVERYONE had the same opportunity and EVERYONE had the ability to beat those missions, no matter how many times they failed. And once you beat that mission, ooooh... I remember how long CoP 2-5 took me back when... It felt SO GOOD to get that out of the way, finally! The difficulty gave me a reason to stay with it and keep trying, and if at any point I felt like I had accomplished all the content I wanted to... Then it was time to start building up another 75 to be more prepared for the next batch of content.

Everyone still has the same opprotunity to do them.

The changes to things like CoP don't really have anything to do with the topic of the level minimum in Abyssea.


People like Krystal and myself miss those days, and miss that game. I don't want to turn of FFVII and get myself to the end side quests in the amount of time it used to take me to get out of the first city. I don't expect or want that game to change, and I didn't expect or want FFXI to change either. But it did, and now we have to roll with it. Yes, our arguments are fueled by nostalgia 90% of the time... But can you blame us? Logging in is literally depressing for me now (which is why I stopped logging in for now).

I like that the game keeps evolving and changing. If it stayed stale and never changed I would probably stop playing because it would be boring. I like the curve balls SE throws at us. It's either adapt or die basically.


The quests and the gear used to immerse us in the game. The combination of level sync and abyssea's mass exp made so much gear useless. Most gear from 1-30 and next to all gear from 30-75 is useless. Thats hundreds, maybe thousands, of item dat files gone to waste. Hundreds of nms that are useless to kill, and even if nostalgia brings you to hunt one down, nobody cares but you. Area's that are hardly ever visited. Endless hours spent crafting which is now a useless trade. Countless quests nobody will ever do, because the rewards are useless.

As I mentioned above, I have a lot of pre-Abyssea gear. I like being able to go for new stuff. I still even go for old stuff just cause it's there to be gotten.


A couple weeks ago I went online and read through all the stone monuments for the Crawler's Nest map, followed that sad and heartfelt storyline, and it almost brought a tear to my eye. I won't be too surprised if not many of you have ever heard of that quest, and impressed if you have. Is there any reason to go to Crawler's Nest anymore? Are there people that don't even know that it is an area you can go to? You can call me weak, or sentimental, or a girl, or whatever, but its sad to me. I loved this game and the world it brought me into, and had some of the best times within it.

Abyssea is not stopping you from doing quests.



Level cap going to 99 and exp being so easy to come by just doesn't sit well with people that have been around a long time. That's just the way it is. There is no use arguing about it. SE had their reasons to do what they did and the people that enjoy it are playing an entirely different game that we used to love. That's all. I think I might start an online journal. I need an outlet and apparently I'm using this forum as one right now. Krystal... I'm sorry but you may need to quit FFXI, or you might never be happy.

I have found that most old timer players welcome the Abyssea changes to the game because they freshen up the game. There are a few people who dislike it, but in my experience they are few and far between. Most of the protest seems to come from casual post-PS2 release players who don't seem to realise that Abyssea was designed to help casuals be able to participate in more events and get more things done.

[Lyall]

Inflammatory insights into someone's character's...erm... character aside, that was something I forgot to comment on.

A lot of the game's population, at least as far as I know, didn't do much "endgame" outside of the entry-level stuff, like Dynamis and Sea/Sky. When experience and current-endgame crashed into the same zones together with Abyssea, I think a lot of people didn't know how to handle that. On one hand, experience! On the other, competition with the allegedly-elitist endgamers!

There's nothing wrong or bad about high-end play, and suddenly having to share playgrounds made a lot of ruckus between the different crowds.

[katori]

i dont think the old way is bad. plus they double exp in the old places so people would start to lvl up there again. i wouldnt put it pass SE to change abyssea enter to 75. i would totally lol if they did

[HFX7686]

A lot of the game's population, at least as far as I know, didn't do much "endgame" outside of the entry-level stuff, like Dynamis and Sea/Sky. When experience and current-endgame crashed into the same zones together with Abyssea, I think a lot of people didn't know how to handle that. On one hand, experience! On the other, competition with the allegedly-elitist endgamers!

I think you're right. I even knew some end game people who were upset about Abyssea cutting into the traditional end game linkshell schedule when Abyssea first came out. They couldn't understand why no one wanted to go "help" at Dynamis or Einherjar anymore. It took a few weeks but they're all on the bandwagon now.

[Byrth]

Thank you I looked up the word and found that I had used the wrong word - I have edited my post. I'm sure my meaning must have been clear however.

Sorry, sarcasm doesn't come through well on the internet so I couldn't be sure.

[Ikari]

Double exp at colibri north / MMJ would still only be 50k, 60k an hour. As might have been missed in Lyall's gigantic post, 92k an hour with just a WAR and WHM for DD, on my leeching DRK and several others. Would be double that if we actually had a full party killing.

Point is, nothing SE can ever do to raw exp gain will change the fact that abyssea is the best source of exp in this game. Not because mobs give 600, 650 exp a kill, but because they respawn in 30 seconds, instead of 5-15 minutes. Doubling exp will make the 1-30 grind much less painful, but again, if the level restriction was raised to X in abyssea, that would just mean people grind level sync'd lesser colibri/colibri/greater colibri until X level.

I, for one, have been sick of colibri since about halfway through WotG, having leveled 2 entire jobs on them and merited 4 others. But I guess all these people arguing for Abyssea to be high-capped have more fun grinding colibri for weeks to get to 75 (90), instead of 4-7 abyssea sessions, some skillups, and then playing the actual meat of the game with a shiny new job.

[rog]

Point is, nothing SE can ever do to raw exp gain will change the fact that abyssea is the best source of exp in this game.
50x exp outside abyssea would more than do it.

[Ikari]

Well yea, but then you would kill a level 0 bunny in ronfaure and ding level 5, and I don't think that's quite something SE would do. That kind of exp gain and the question of "Why even have levels below cap?" becomes worth asking.

[rog]

Well yea, but then you would kill a level 0 bunny in ronfaure and ding level 5, and I don't think that's quite something SE would do. That kind of exp gain and the question of "Why even have levels below cap?" becomes worth asking.
Those rabbits are level -1 actually. And i already asked thatg question.

[Ikari]

There's still a certain amount of work that goes into a job, especially the first 30 levels to get to abyssea, and having a halfway competent abyssea group so you don't gouge your own eyeballs out. A full-bore abyssea cleave party can pull 200k+ an hour, which most certainly makes levels meaningless, but the average pickup group isn't anywhere near that speed. I think that's the reason why SE isn't just handing levels out like candy, because there's still a huge difference between a competent, geared party, and the proverbial doonz pickup (that happens to be inside abyssea).

That's why I don't think it's a question worth asking yet, low-end exp is still slow. There's still a 'penalty' to having an incompetent group, and until that's gone, level progression has meaning.

[Nattack]

Oh look another thread with the exact same thing in it...

Raen and Rog are entirely correct. This whole "RETURN TO THE OLD WAYS" attitude needs to go away, the old ways sucked, stop asking for them back.

I half agree, I never did like old EXP parties, but as I posted on BST, I loved it when people would fight over HNM's via MPK. It was hectic and exciting!
I loved the old mechanics of the game, just not the whole 5k an hour thing.

[HFX7686]

I half agree, I never did like old EXP parties, but as I posted on BST, I loved it when people would fight over HNM's via MPK. It was hectic and exciting!
I loved the old mechanics of the game, just not the whole 5k an hour thing.

I think most of us say that we loved the old mechanics. I too look back on those times fondly. I'm not upset, however, about the changes. I'm looking forward to more.

[Cyx]

It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day". In my opinion you can either play a job well or you can't. It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done. And

If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.
this ^

[Ramsos]

It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day". In my opinion you can either play a job well or you can't. It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done. And

this ^

I agree with everything in this post. My only problem is pointing out that the OP of this thread and the ringleader of this "raise the abyssea cap" nonsense is a guy that started playing this game after WoG release. So its not only oldschool players who are complaining, but also noobs who think that lvling in the lvl-sync generation makes them "oldschool".

[Dauntless]

It doesn't matter if you have been playing a job for 4 years and someone got it in 1 day to 75. If you are a good player it only takes 1 day to realize what needs to be done.

False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.

[Kuishen]

False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.

There aren't many new players and most new players are people coming back from quitting and didn't get their char back.

Your entire argument is this: Well it took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong, that must mean it will take everybody else a while, exping fast is bad.

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

[viion]

I wonder if this thread will become as popular as the cheesecake.

[Cyx]

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

this ^

AND you took a section out of my comment and replied based on that. If you notice I was only talking about players that have been around for a while. I was not talking about players that started 2 months ago. I said

"It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day"."

ggthough~

[Aureus]

False.

I began playing back in '06 and I started off leveling DRK as my main. Throughout parties I didn't know much so I simply assumed my job was to do as much damage as possible in the shortest amount of time possible regardless of how much MP it took to keep me alive. This, of course, meant Souleater + Last resort whenever it was up. I also had absolutely NO knowledge of gear swaps, haste builds, etc and I simply distributed attack, accuracy, and strength evenly throughout all of my gear. It wasn't until about level 45 when I realized how wrong I was playing my job.

Now how did I figure out what I was doing was wrong? Was it through sitting around and leeching till I was 75? Hell no. I learned solely through partying with other people the do's and don'ts of this game.

If I began playing this game during this Abyssea era, then I have no doubt that I would be level 90 within a week and would still be spamming souleater, last resort, and blood weapon at every opportunity. I would still have one set of armor and I would be missing, attacking slowly, and whiffing weapon skills often.

70 is perfect because it's around the level where exp begins slowing down as most 70 camps are the same places as 75 meripo camps except much slower. It gives people ample time to learn how to play their classes effectively, shows mages how to use their MP efficiently instead of spamming the highest cure they have available (what I'm seeing nowadays from mages) and prevents nubs like Nature from ending up reaching max level because back when I played, if you "had your own playstyle" and decided to never gearswap, you'd be infamous and there would be no parties easily. This would essentially force those kinds of players to begin playing efficiently and stop hindering parties.

Tl;DR version: I support this.
Or you could have taken a couple hours and done some research on the job. If you jump into anything with no forethought, chances are you're going to do the wrong thing. Spending 3-4 hours reading through DRK forums and talking to players that already have experience would have had the same effect that countless days of trial and error taught you.

[Dauntless]

There aren't many new players and most new players are people coming back from quitting and didn't get their char back.

Your entire argument is this: Well it took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong, that must mean it will take everybody else a while, exping fast is bad.

Assuming everybody doesn't do the research you didn't do is a stupid thing to base your argument on.

Again, false. On Valefor I have a friend list of about 20~ brand new players and I've only been back for about 2 weeks. What do they all have in common? They're all level 65+ with god awful gear (I.E DRKs wearing Scorpion Harness). What do most of them have in common? They have no idea how to beat maat.

There are WHMs and RDMs meleeing in parties BLM just spamming nukes and Nins maining GK's. It's ridiculous.

Your attempt to oversimplify my post is noted, but you're doing it wrong. Most new players have no clue about resources such as ffxiclopedia, bluegartr, etc. until told told about it by higher ups and many of them have to learn things on the fly. If you spend all your time leeching in an Abyssea party, you're going to be the same noob you were when you began playing the game, you're just going to be level 90.

I'm not a cranky vet who thinks that everyone should have it as hard as I did, I just think that lowbies should have to learn how to play their classes properly before being able to leech and that people who don't want to level in Abyssea and want to party the old school way should be able to. This suggestion addresses both of those problems.

this ^

AND you took a section out of my comment and replied based on that. If you notice I was only talking about players that have been around for a while. I was not talking about players that started 2 months ago. I said

"It seems the only people who want the level cap raised are people that have been playing for a long time and are /pout. It's time to get over it. "This took me forever to get and they got it in one day"."

ggthough~

And what I'm saying is that not everyone is a returning vet, and everyone should not be treated as such.

[Dauntless]

Quote deleted by moderator

<Congratulations!>

[Ica]

False.

...

Wall o text.

You assume that everyone is going to take as long as you to get the hang of things.

It doesn't work that way.

P.S. bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

[Krystal]

Says in a voice sounding like the Grinch from the Grinch who stole Christmas movie: Is this thread STILL LIVING?!

[Dauntless]

You assume that everyone is going to take as long as you to get the hang of things.

It doesn't work that way.

P.S. bind sysrq screenshot bmp hide

I take it you take pride in your ignorance by not reading my post and replying to it with something that I already covered in said post?

Yeah, you're cool.

[Ica]

I take it you take pride in your ignorance by not reading my post and replying to it with something that I already covered in said post?

Yeah, you're cool.

Orrrrrrrrr you could have posted your reply while I was replying.

Way to look like a tool.

[Dauntless]

Orrrrrrrrr you could have posted your reply while I was replying.

Way to look like a tool.

You posted about 7~ minutes after I posted mine so I assumed you didn't.

You are correct, though.

[Nepharite]

Can anyone recap whats going on in this thread? this last page has nothing but people trolling each other.

The previous page has a bunch of false info in it. This thread seems like its still full of people afraid of change.

[Ica]

You posted about 7~ minutes after I posted mine so I assumed you didn't.

You are correct, though.

I ran to get my dinner, and left the window open to reply and didn't submit it until after. lolz

To address a point of yours though, if these newbies have no idea how to use the wiki, bg, etc, are they really going to find themselves in a leech party? If they're as helpless as you're making them out to be, chances are they're not starting their own abyssea parties or friends with the type of people who'd let them afk leech.

[Nepharite]

I ran to get my dinner, and left the window open to reply and didn't submit it until after. lolz

To address a point of yours though, if these newbies have no idea how to use the wiki, bg, etc, are they really going to find themselves in a leech party? If they're as helpless as you're making them out to be, chances are they're not starting their own abyssea parties or friends with the type of people who'd let them afk leech.

Hopefully they don't use the wiki job guides, those are junk.

[Ramsos]

Can anyone recap whats going on in this thread? this last page has nothing but people trolling each other.

The previous page has a bunch of false info in it. This thread seems like its still full of people afraid of change.

OP claims they are a butthurt oldschool player who doesnt like abyssea. Wants people to go back to the way exp used to work. After page after page of trolling people, OP admits to being a noob who only started playing after WoG release and has no idea what he is talking about. OP complains about being repeatedly trolled and dissapears to make their 6th or so thread on this same topic, thinking that people wont follow.

[Nepharite]

I hate it when people use the term "old school player." It usually means they sucked back in the day and suck more now that the game has progressed past their archaic ways.

[Nepharite]

Yeah cause lets start exping again in moon, that was fun. Better yet sky was awesome exp. Do you guys remember how kick ass Bibiki Bay was? Love killing me some dhamels and goblins all day. [/sarcasm]

[magnius]

Idk. When I ran into new players and when they don't know how to gear their jobs, they usually ask. There are always people who are willing to help players that ask for help on gearing for a job.

[Henihhi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVs7vXNZiw

That about sums up this thread. 900 posts + lol amazing

[Nepharite]

I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why abyssea burning is bad.
Pretty much every bad thing being said would be the same if you couldn't enter abyssea till 75.

[Dauntless]

I have yet to hear a legitimate reason as to why abyssea burning is bad.
Pretty much every bad thing being said would be the same if you couldn't enter abyssea till 75.

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

[Kailea_Nagisa]

the changes need to be two fold for it to work, if the level cap was raised to 70/75, then EXP outside Abyssea needs to change as well, doing both of these would fix the old problem, and this new problem, and the world would be more balanced in terms of where people level.

Abyssea was a good idea, but I think SE should have thought it through before implementation.

[Nepharite]

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

Give me one of your legit reasons, so we can discuss it.

[Lyall]

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

The argument against is that it is too easy and that people don't know their skills. I assure you, sir, that even people who level in legit parties don't always know their skills. It is a slippery slope, and every individual brings something else to the table. This entire thread is basically people opposing experience being easier.

I would muse if half of the detractors existed when ToAU came out (which I am fairly sure they did not) they'd also complain about colibri parties. They also probably opposed level sync.

Complainers will always complain.

[Nepharite]

the changes need to be two fold for it to work, if the level cap was raised to 70/75, then EXP outside Abyssea needs to change as well, doing both of these would fix the old problem, and this new problem, and the world would be more balanced in terms of where people level.

Abyssea was a good idea, but I think SE should have thought it through before implementation.

They did adjust exp outside of abyssea to accommodate lowman/solo play.

[HFX7686]

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

I've yet to see an argument for raising the requirement that hasn't been completely and totally ripped apart.

I've yet to see an argument for leaving it the way it is that has been even dented.

[Ica]

I'm still waiting to hear where these supernewbs are coming from that are leeching left and right but have no idea where to go online to get info or ask for advice on their jobs.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

They did adjust exp outside of abyssea to accommodate lowman/solo play.


I meant again

[Nepharite]

I meant again

Its extremely easy to exp outside of abyssea, I'm not sure where your going with this.

It sounds like you want abyssea type exp outside of abyssea because you don't want to abyssea burn your jobs?

I'm at a loss here...

[Nepharite]

I'm still waiting to hear where these supernewbs are coming from that are leeching left and right but have no idea where to go online to get info or ask for advice on their jobs.

I'm a "supernewb"

Now in some people's defense about people not looking up job info. I have ran into a small number of people who play on console and don't have access to a pc. The majority of those players didn't know much about their jobs or how to gear. (this was pre abyssea)

Although they were usually glad to take any advice they could get.

[Pharaun]

Simply because you choose to ignore every legitimate argument against Abyssea doesn't mean that there are no legit reasons. I could just as easily say I have yet to hear legitimate for Abyssea burning but I'd be lying.

I've heard and considered many arguments for and against Abyssea and both sides raise valid points, but I believe this suggestion is the best compromise short of making Abyssea 75+

Your argument that it takes a considerable amount of time in party environment to really learn a job is terrible and has already been addressed, but I'll address it yet again.

You said that you started playing in 06 and it took you until you were about level 45 to really start to learn how to play your job. I'm going to take a guess and say it took you about 2 months to get your job to 45 which is probably being generous if you figure in time to level subs and time spent farming.

For someone starting from scratch it should probably take them at most a month to get to 90 once they can start leeching in abyssea. This is probably being generous going the other way since we know that people have done it in less than a week, but we'll let this scenario favor you. Sometime during all this leeching they should have made a few friends, joined an LS, and learned about the various resources for the learning the mechanics of this game, wiki, BG, Alla...

After getting to 90 they would spend let's say a week capping the relevant combat and magic skills, again being generous to you since it shouldn't take more than a couple of days. Now that they have their skills capped, or at least raised to an acceptable level they then spend time browsing the wiki and other websites to learn what gear they need and what sets they should be working towards. After this they can spend the next 2 weeks farming seals and getting atmas and have reasonable TP and WS sets.

So it's been the same 2 month time frame but you're still at level 45 while the person in this scenario now has a level 90 job and still has learned just as much about the game as you did. Abyssea is also much more forgiving for a new player as long as they are with a some what competent group. They are much less likely to cause a wipe than in old content and thus can actually spend more time playing the game instead of being put on the sidelines.

Of course this is assuming that the person playing actually wants to learn about the game and the various jobs. There is no good reason for a person to spend 2-4 months slogging through the levels the old way just to "learn their job".

[Vivik]

Its extremely easy to exp outside of abyssea,

Not as easy as it would be to leech from level 1.

[Lyall]

Not as easy as it would be to leech from level 1.

Give or take two afternoons, there isn't much difference. Those who want to, will.

[Bahamut_Norm]

I've yet to see an argument for raising the requirement that hasn't been completely and totally ripped apart.
I've yet to see an argument for leaving it the way it is that has been even dented.

Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

[Kuishen]

Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

You're right, the other sources of exp have a shitty effort/reward ratio.

[Nepharite]

Okay.
How about the massive gap in effort/reward ratio versus all other sources of experience points?

Have you ever done keying? its totally worth gaining all that exp.

[Eeek]

You're right, the other sources of exp have a shitty effort/reward ratio.

Even though FoV exp is definitely slow in comparison to Abyssea exp, I love FoV for one big reason: I can start, stop, and go AFK whenever I damn well please. The pace is relaxing and it doesn't require my attention at all times.

Of course, this is only relevant for lowbie jobs. I couldn't imagine trying to FoV jobs ablove Level 75. Then again, there are better solo-friend alternatives at that level anyways.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

I see people making comments like "leveling past 75" and the like, in reference to the old way of leveling, but that is the thing, you would not be doing that even if things changed, Abyssea was made for leveling past 75, the problem is, that is what it should have been for, and there for the cap of 70/75 should have been made.

level 1-75 like you used to (although with higher EXP then right now), then start leveling 76-99 in Abyssea, this is what I would like to see. This way the leveling spread would be evened out across the world.

Why would this be so bad? Yes you would not be able to level from 30-90 in a day or two.... but hell you should never be able to do that in an MMORPG anyway. Doing it in the way I described (as long as SE makes the EXP reward outside Abyssea higher all round then it is now) it would only take you roughly a month to level a job from 1-99. Now really in an MMORPG aspect, is that really a long time?

[jamieg]

I agree that abyssea leaching needs to stop. It should be at least adjusted to lvl 70 min to enter abys. I think a bunch of changes need to happen though before that can occur. The game needs to be made more soloable to lvl 70. The reason people leech is because they can't find a party and the lvling is real slow.

[Pharaun]

Why would this be so bad? Yes you would not be able to level from 30-90 in a day or two.... but hell you should never be able to do that in an MMORPG anyway. Doing it in the way I described (as long as SE makes the EXP reward outside Abyssea higher all round then it is now) it would only take you roughly a month to level a job from 1-99. Now really in an MMORPG aspect, is that really a long time?

Because grinding exp is by far the worst part of the game, more people have quit this game because of the grind than any other reason. By allowing people to accelerate the grind then they can actually get to the fun parts of the game and retain players that way instead of having to rely on the artificial time sink of level grinding.

[Miera]

Holy cow this thread is still going. xD

[Capn]

I'm sure someone has already mentioned the solution to this entire thread...


If you don't like the ability to easily level from 30 - 90 ... then go ahead and xp outside abyssea while everyone else makes efficient progress.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Because grinding exp is by far the worst part of the game, more people have quit this game because of the grind than any other reason. By allowing people to accelerate the grind then they can actually get to the fun parts of the game and retain players that way instead of having to rely on the artificial time sink of level grinding.

My way would still reduce the grind, if you come to play an MMORPG and get annoyed that it takes you a month to cap level... you need to go play something else -.-

Heck my estimate of a month, was really the long end anyway, with how fast some people are it could only take 2 weeks.

[Nacht]

I like bringing low level jobs to level in abyssea because it's fast compared to other ways. For the record, I ask the leader if I can leech with one character while playing a lvl 90 mule as some sort of mage. Usually stand at the ops guy on my main and don't bother getting ops at all on the mule.

I leveled BRD back in the day and after bringing that to dynamis/einherjar, I decided I hated it because the range on horde lullaby was smaller than sleepga and it was aggravating me. That was a lot of time wasted; BRD is still 75 for me.

After they announced they were planning the level increase, everyone in my linkshell needed to level SJs. So we'd make linkshell pts when we weren't doing events. Some people also leveled new jobs. I leveled SMN to 65 before I decided I decided I didn't want to play it. That was a lot of time wasted; SMN is still 65 for me.

A couple months ago I decided to level WAR and got to 80 in 2 days. I went to skill up and eventually decided I didn't like WAR. I then leveled NIN to 87 in a day and eventually decided I liked playing NIN.


The reason people leech is because they can't find a party and the lvling is real slow.

No. Prior to abyssea, leveling new jobs was annoying. Now it's easier to level the job then test drive these jobs. I wouldn't have bothered leveling a new job if I had to do it the old way. That shit is just annoying after the first few jobs. I leech because I don't want to go through the crap of spending weeks of effort leveling a job only to decide I don't like it.

[NightDagger]

Ols players did not wuit cause of the slower XP, it was due to the fact they spent hours on end to get a job from 1-75 THEN SE comes out and makes people able to go from 1-75 in a few days. New people love this, old players that only had 1 lvl 75 & played it until abyssea came out love this. But the game was never made to be easy, SE stated it that when FFXIV came out it was for the casual player that wanted to solo when they had time & would be able to still obtain a high level. FFXI is for the hardcore players that enjoy grinding it out to achieve their goals.

Either way SE will not change this I am sure. it is too late but the thought is nice.

NightDagger
Server - Lakshmi

[Pharaun]

My way would still reduce the grind, if you come to play an MMORPG and get annoyed that it takes you a month to cap level... you need to go play something else -.-

Heck my estimate of a month, was really the long end anyway, with how fast some people are it could only take 2 weeks.

I've put in my time grinding, and back in the day I didn't mind it so much, but now I'd rather spend the limited time I have to play the game doing something that is enjoyable. The rather vocal minority gets all upset because they feel that everything has to be a time sink in this game and if anyone figures out a way to make that time sink less painful then they get all upset about it.

For all the yelling and screaming and whining and multiple threads about the same damn thing none of you have been able to give a reasonable answer as to why the grind should be put back into this game. When pressed it usually boils down to well I had to grind, so should everyone else. And when pressed further it turns out that most of you didn't even do the really hard grind, it was all post ToAU. I did my grinding when a 6k/hr party was great and an 8k/hr party was fantastic, 10k/hr was unheard of, and nothing any of you say will make me want to go back to something like that again. And yes anything outside of abyssea is similar since you would be going from 200k/hr down to 50k/hr even with the exp adjustments.

[Greatguardian]

I had 6 75s before Abyssea came out, and only took a 7th up with Abyssea. EXP'ing is not hardcore. At all. It's just a means to an end. Real hardcore is Endgame; which some people mistake Abyssea for. Abyssea is not Endgame, it's by definition Midgame content and it shows. It's not like the Devs wanted us to sit on our thumbs and go do Salvage and Einherjar for a year until we hit 99 and the next set of Endgame was release. Abyssea is something to do, that's all.

Real goals, real bragging rights, in 8 years these have never had anything to do with leveling up. They come from what you do afterwards.

[Pharaun]

Ols players did not wuit cause of the slower XP, it was due to the fact they spent hours on end to get a job from 1-75 THEN SE comes out and makes people able to go from 1-75 in a few days. New people love this, old players that only had 1 lvl 75 & played it until abyssea came out love this. But the game was never made to be easy, SE stated it that when FFXIV came out it was for the casual player that wanted to solo when they had time & would be able to still obtain a high level. FFXI is for the hardcore players that enjoy grinding it out to achieve their goals.

Either way SE will not change this I am sure. it is too late but the thought is nice.

NightDagger
Server - Lakshmi

You are so wrong with this I don't even know where to start. I'm as old a player as you can get having imported the game from Japan and played since before the US release. I had 4 jobs at 75 the old way and it would have been more but I decide I wanted to have fun playing the game, and the new way is soooooooooooooo much better. The only people who hate the new way are a bunch of masochists that feel like playing an MMO should be a form of virtual flagellation. The so called hardcore players are the ones who love the new way because it allows them to actually work on their goals instead of having to grind exp all day. The so called casuals are the ones that seem to hate it, and I can't figure out why. Everything is better for them, they actually have a chance to earn top tier gear now and not have it monopolized by a few elite LS's, they can accomplish more in the limited play time they have than they ever could before, but for some odd reason are rebelling against it. I guess it's because they seeing themselves turning into what they always railed against, the "elitest" players and they can't stand it.

[magnius]

I did my grinding when a 6k/hr party was great and an 8k/hr party was fantastic, 10k/hr was unheard of, and nothing any of you say will make me want to go back to something like that again.

Yes! Those days were a complete nightmare...And as I'm sitting here trying to remember a good moment in those times(outside of partying with friends), I come to realize I don't even want to think about it....

[Kailea_Nagisa]

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

[HFX7686]

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

Because this is a great game in which to do things that aren't leveling.

[Pharaun]

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

You're still ignoring the part where no one can explain what's wrong with abyssea leeching, no one can give an answer that doesn't boil down to "I just don't like it". When you can come up with a solid reason as to why it's bad, and not some emotional purely opinion based reason either, then we can have a discussion about it.

[windrider]

Its basically others have to grind or have grinded already to get jobs to a high enough standard, they brought spells/farmed armour/weapons meritted even, for what to let someone else leeching exp in a job they dont know how to play nor like most will ever use it to help others..... I think the standard level of abyssea should be raised to 75, or if they keep it at 30 make it that you either cant open chests or gain any exp from it, till u reach 75.

[Vivik]

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

[magnius]

Its basically others have to grind or have grinded already to get jobs to a high enough standard, they brought spells/farmed armour/weapons meritted even, for what to let someone else leeching exp in a job they dont know how to play nor like most will ever use it to help others..... I think the standard level of abyssea should be raised to 75, or if they keep it at 30 make it that you either cant open chests or gain any exp from it, till u reach 75.

I don't think you've even read any part of the thread since this was covered on this same page. A majority of older players who have done the grinding and completed what you've mentioned have NO objections to others leeching.

[Niklz]

Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

Isn't the point of an MMO you pay for is to have Exclusiveness? Whats the driving force of every single MMO player out there? Exclusivity. That is why so many people sink so much of their time into an MMO. To be better than the next person. Lowering the limit to 1 would completely destroy that. At that point a F2P mmo would have more to enjoy than FFXI.
When Abyssea first started the limit at that time should have been 70+. It's entirely too late for that now. Every single player has already taken advantage of the exp gain at low levels it would be unfair to those that may be starting the game new, or returning. But please don't ruin it even further by lowering the level requirement for entrance even more.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Why adjust the exp gain in outside areas when SE could just lower the level requirement to to enter abyssea to 1? Then, eveyone gets abyssea XP.

That is the worst thing that could happen to this game, they might as well just start everyone at level 99 when they make a new character -.-

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Isn't the point of an MMO you pay for is to have Exclusiveness? Whats the driving force of every single MMO player out there? Exclusivity. That is why so many people sink so much of their time into an MMO. To be better than the next person. Lowering the limit to 1 would completely destroy that. At that point a F2P mmo would have more to enjoy than FFXI.
When Abyssea first started the limit at that time should have been 70+. It's entirely too late for that now. Every single player has already taken advantage of the exp gain at low levels it would be unfair to those that may be starting the game new, or returning. But please don't ruin it even further by lowering the level requirement for entrance even more.

Well I dont know about others, I don't really care about exclusivity, and its not way I pay to play an MMORPG. I play to go on adventures, explore, and meet new people. Now it is nothing but level to 30 and go to Abyssea.

[Damane]

oh please all this over dramatization of EXPing before abyssea... if you hated it that much, how are you still here.

If the EXP was raised even further for parties outside Abyssea, the grind would not be anywhere near as bad as it used to be, and then Abyssea entry could be raised to 70/75 without a problem.

Please stop. I lvld 4 Jobs to 75 pre ToAU (When CoP was still the thing). 5 additonal Jobs to mid WotG missions. Old exp is OLDE. I am plaiyng this game since 7 years+ Abyssea exping is the best thing that could ever happen, I have still my 9 Jobs, I didnt lvl an addtional Job with Abyssea, but I find it GREAT. Old exp days were garbage, especially pre ToAU ones and pre Level Sync ones. I enjoy now endgame content, I get on and do stuff. And the best part is I lvld myself a whm mule WITH abyssea, so I can have even more Flexibility in doing stuff.

I have no problem now getting my 9 jobs to lvl 90, I even left some at 75 still, but I plan to get them up when I have interest, because its not anymore such a timesink.

Seriously I dont understand all this bitching. Leeching in Abyssea is fine, period. Everyone who disagrees, just envies those people or is a masochist.

OH and to answer your question, even tough I didnt like old exping, there was something called "Endgame" that kept me in FFXI. You know the stuff we call Salvage, Einherjar, Limbus, Camping etc. etc. and Friends.

[RAIST]

This threaed about to hit the 1000 mark... wow. Just... WOW!

but, back to the debate:

It's not like there aren't ways to "game" the xp grind outside of Abyssea already. Granted, Astral Burns aren't as efficient, but it is an option. And couple the double xp tweak with the ability to spam FoV pages now, you kind of have a lite version of Dominion in old areas to shoot all the way to about 76 pretty quick if you are organized (you can always find a target to FOV on with EM+ targets to chain with a group all the way through to 75 if you have Sky Access, often times in camps with quick access to a book).

Now for the story to maybe put some perspective on the debates:

I used to be kind of neutral on the issue, but now after actually running jobs up in multiple environments (details to follow), I think it is just fine as is. This will be a long post, but there is a point behind it.

I made the choice to continue leveling my remaining 4 jobs I planned to take to 75 in the old areas first before taking them to abyssea even though I was able to get my 6 75's to 80, 85, and 90 so fast via abyssea. Considering they were leveled, didn't really have much else to do but merit, do magians, and farm items for AF3. So...I finally started doing my other jobs--DRG, DRK, WAR, BST, and they were all at 51.

I admit it was a bit of a grind. Got them to 60/63 pretty much solo via FOV and got a little tired of it and LS started getting more involved in Abyssea again and the 90 cap came out, so got distracted for a while. Took me about a month to get DRG to 75, then shot it to 85, then 90 each stage during one weekend, and it was done. Started up DRK and it was a bit better, but still slow. Got to take advantage of some teamups via level synch and eventually got it to 72 after about 3 weeks. Then... the double xp came...and doing those jobs took on a whole different feel to them. Then, free spamming of FOV and omg... the levels flew. I started DRK magian scythe when I hit 75...by the time I completed the stage to make it 75, I was 78 DRK because I mixed in some Bastions with each level I dinged to grab a quick buffer (oftentimes netting 8k a pop) and was doing FoV along with my targets when possible. So I continued and it took me just over 3 weeks to hit 85 DRK from 60. That was about half the time as DRG--and I REALLY pushed DRG in the old system, even spent entire days in abyussea doing Bastion at one point to get one level a day on DRG, and it still took me a total of a month.

Now for the real kicker...taking up WAR. With the new tweaks on it from the start...in short it just FLEW by. 10 Days, all solo. From 60 to 85, and completed a Magian GA in 10 days solo (except for a few teamups for magian trials where we raped mobs for 50/kill). Then came BST. I had a crazy weekend planned and was going to have limited time to play and the LS was planning another one of those Fell Cleave runs where one gorup continuosly farms TE so the LS can form groups to leech, skillup, get TE to break off and farm NM's. So I secured a spot for my BST and leeched it from 60 up while I was running around all day doing RL stuff. By the time I got back home and was able to focus on the game that day, it was 85 and my axes were uncapped again so I started swinging them and skilled up to get bora axe unlocked and hit 90 BST. Then started rotating other jobs in and skilling up/topping them off and such. Managed to get to where I just need a few more levels and all 10 of my jobs will be 90 and I can concentrate on all the other crap I want to do in the game--exp'ing is no longer an issue for me.

Now, I can see the argument for how slow xping is in old areas versus abyssea. Yes, there is a stark difference there--1 day versus 10 days between two jobs. But you ALSO have compare the before and after witht he OLD CONTENT areas--1 MONTH vs. 2 WEEKS to accomplish basically the same goal.

The point is, the older zones have already gotten a CONSIDERABLE shot in the arm in the XP category. It has MORE than doubled the xp rate (2x the xp per kill, and you can run FoV pages as fast as you can kill stuff instead of just once per game day now). And yet...people still do Abyssea more than they do the older content.

The problem isn't so much an issue with the mechanics of how to get their xp. They can still astral burn. They can now spam FoV for enhanced xp. They can go to abyssea. But it all still comes down to CHOICE. What is your priority--enjoying the challenges the game has to offer, or sit on your butt to get the xp so you can move on to doing other content without worrying about forming up xp parties? The game now provides environments for both types of players. It just happens that with the larger contingent of long-term players that have simply had enough of the old-school grind that they are opting to take the easy mode so they can get back to doing more of the content they have come to enjoy rather than grinding the xp out.

It is feeling more and more like the new players I think are just jealous that these other guys have the resources to take advantage of the new battlefield. Well guess what, they all had to pay their dues for (in some cases) 7 YEARS. So, you have to suffer a little discomfort for a couple weeks, maybe a month or so before you get easy mode. BIG WOOP! It used to be a LOT worse.

New players practically have everything outside of Abyssea handed to them on a silver platter now in comparison to how it was even just a year ago. This game has already been accelerated to the point that it is almost broken now. Things are simply off-kilter from all the sudden changes made recently, and it is going to take some time to level off. Eventually, everyone will be done xp'ing their jobs to 90 and it will get back to being focused more on content again--I've already seen this starting to take shape in my LS with more people taking time out to help people with Rank Runs and what not.

Also, SE has already announced it's intent on working towards game balance before releasing any more level cap increases. They obviously have at least a short list of changes to implement. How about give them some time to play catch up?

/endrant

Raist

[Vivik]

Isn't the point of an MMO you pay for is to have Exclusiveness? Whats the driving force of every single MMO player out there? Exclusivity. That is why so many people sink so much of their time into an MMO. To be better than the next person. Lowering the limit to 1 would completely destroy that. At that point a F2P mmo would have more to enjoy than FFXI.
When Abyssea first started the limit at that time should have been 70+. It's entirely too late for that now. Every single player has already taken advantage of the exp gain at low levels it would be unfair to those that may be starting the game new, or returning. But please don't ruin it even further by lowering the level requirement for entrance even more.

Yes I want to be exclusive like every other monk and whm out there in abyssea right now, that makes total sense.

There is little to no difference starting abyssea at level 30 or level 1. You don't learn how to play your job at level thirty, there is no magical button to press for skill. The fact still remains that people who cannot play their jobs will never be able to play them no matter how they level.
Raising the level restrictions to enter wont change anything. Just like changing them to 1 wont change anything.


That is the worst thing that could happen to this game, they might as well just start everyone at level 99 when they make a new character -.-

Why? If you're going to say it's the worst thing ever you could at least provide an argument to back it up.

[Niklz]

Why? If you're going to say it's the worst thing ever you could at least provide an argument to back it up.

Whats your argument for it being a good thing. I'm curious. Do you think it would be good? If so please explain how.


With the steady population decline in the game lowering the abyssea requirements from 30-1 is the next logical step for SE to ensure that everyone can have the opportunity to enjoy their endgame content.

Edit: Found this post of yours. Why would it be logical for them. Just so people can get to endgame quicker? What entitles "endgame" these days. Abyssea is not endgame. There definitely wouldn't be any endgame if everyone can get to it on day 1.
It's like inserting a game into the console, then hitting a button that makes the ending credits pop up. Does that sound logical?

[Vivik]

Whats your argument for it being a good thing. I'm curious. Do you think it would be good? If so please explain how.

Actually I said it would not make a difference. Which it won't.




Edit: Found this post of yours. Why would it be logical for them. Just so people can get to endgame quicker? What entitles "endgame" these days. Abyssea is not endgame. There definitely wouldn't be any endgame if everyone can get to it on day 1.
It's like inserting a game into the console, then hitting a button that makes the ending credits pop up. Does that sound logical?

Leveling as we know it is dead. Why should anyone have to wait to 30 to go into abyssea? I say again, what is the difference between entering and leeching or chest bitching at 30 and doing the same at level 1? Skill? Experience playing the job? Do you actually think that someone who has leveled to 30 has that much more up on someone entering at level 1?

As far as endgame goes, I guess it would be what you consider end game these days. There really is none anymore. Anything that was endgame before cannot be considered endgame now. I was simply using it as a descriptor for what people do once they hit the temporary max level, nothing more.

[vordox]

I did the solo grind on blm bst smn blu and duoed thf and nin to 75 before the update that introduced lollevelsynch. I wont say I never level synched but I never went 4 levels below or let my skills get 4 levels behind. I always capped my skills then moved on. So now my 16 level 90 jobs all have capped skills and did not have to stand in port casting magic on myself like I see others do. I happen to like the grind thats why I will slow grind that last jobs of pup cor dnc and sch to 90 the hard way. Sch solo ftw.. lol

[magnius]

I say again, what is the difference between entering and leeching or chest bitching at 30 and doing the same at level 1? Skill? Experience playing the job?

I think the reason they put level restrictions on certain activities, or at one time, is because of RMT.

[Alhanelem]

Also, SE has already announced it's intent on working towards game balance before releasing any more level cap increases.Where did they announce this?

The level cap should be raised to it's maximum, where it will be for the rest of the game, before they worry about this. Any changes made before that would just be messed up by the cap increases.

Once again sounding that there's no reason to change abyssea entry requirements. You don't like a low level chest key-er, then just form your own party and don't use one.

[Penance]

The thing is Square enix is trying to take everyones consideration into account.
Currently you can solo / party inside and outside of abyssea fast or slow. This gives you the option to chose.

There are people who can learn a job very quickly and people who dont know how to do it after doing it slowly (non-abyssea) to 75. Thats not the fault of abyssea, but their unwillingness to learn (or being unable to understand).

Square enix expansions have all started at around level 30. I dont see any point in discussing this as people have different opinions and that will never change. For FF12 some people thought it was one of the best, i thought one of the worst. What ive loved most about Final Fantasy throughout these years is the storyline and the avatars (not the mindless experience farming), on FF11 it includes the friends ive made. For you that might be different but the way its currently implemented allows both ways. FF is not restricting you or forcing you to experience in abyssea nor is it forcing us to stay if we dont like it.

What a few days of no FF makes me reply to :(

[RAIST]

Where did they announce this?

It was announced a couple months ago in some interviews in JP with gaming mags. Created quite a buzz just before the last update when everyone was expecting a level cap increase to be announced and it wasn't. The implied message was sometime in the summer for the next level increase.

Raist

[Emitremmus]

Wow I hadn't realized my thread had gone this far. Only nearly 100 pages inbetween my posts...lol.

I didn't mean to give the idea that I want to impose my nostalgia on people. The biggest drawback I see here is that those people burning level 30+ jobs in Abyssea are further hurting those who do not even have Abyssea expansions installed. Perhaps I'm too full of pride of all the time and effort I put into getting jobs to 75 the old way. Just feels like the flair of having put your effort into a particular job has gone away since anyone can get to 90 with 1/1000th of the work. It sucks seeing newer players falter because of this.

[jeffanddane]

lol like i said in many posts to people stfu lol >.> the more threads posted about the same topic the more SE is inclined to do something about it. And i love this idea . . . . This will take the bad player out and make them learn there job and that would be amazing lol. And i agree with you fully on this Emit abyssea cater to lazy players who want everything to come easy . . . . Well it shouldn't . . . We don't need lazy players who do there job sloppy because they don't know how to play there job at all. . . . i ran into someone who didnt know how to TA properly a lvl 90 THF WTF IS THAT ?!?!?!?!?! and a pld that cant tank outside abyssea . . . . there are countess stories of how abyssea have ruined players . . . . I would love 70+ on jobs so we can stop having crappy lazy players . . . i thought ToAU was ruining our players but this is by far making us have people who don't know what the hell they are doing XD>

[Ramsos]

lol like i said in many posts to people stfu lol >.> the more threads posted about the same topic the more SE is inclined to do something about it. And i love this idea . . . . This will take the bad player out and make them learn there job and that would be amazing lol.

Because there were no bad players who didnt know their job before abyssea, right?

[Dauntless]

Because there were no bad players who didnt know their job before abyssea, right?

There were ALOT less.

[Ramsos]

There were ALOT less.

And how exactly can you prove this claim?

[RAIST]

I've run into higher level THF's Pre- Abyssea that didn't know how to SATA efficiently.

I blame it more on the parties not even putting forth an effort to do it anymore. Me and a THF finally gave up trying to teach a party one day and I just told him to go a head and stick my DRK, since the "tank" couldn't get the hang of lining up properly.

Raist

[jeffanddane]

Ram i played this game through Japanese beta till now thats a long time . . . . Before it was only a few when ToAU came out for about 3 months and now that abyssea started there are people that don't know what TA, Enmity on cures,Provoke flash timers, how to properly use summons etc . . . .. . .. If you don't see this then your just a bad player like those people . ..

[Greatguardian]

There were ALOT less.

No, there weren't. There were plenty.

I was going to post a link to the original BG Gimp/Confused/WTF thread from 2007 but the first couple of pages are just stupid, so I won't bother. Needless to say, there were not "ALOT less" bad players before Abyssea. There are plenty of really bad players now, too. And just like in 2003, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, and 2010, most of them don't even realize they're horrible players. If anything, they stand up and defend themselves claiming that they're just different, they have their own opinions, it doesn't matter if they use underleveled or mismatched subs, don't swap gear, or think Haste is worthless.

Honestly, I'd rather have a Mnk who swaps gear, TPs in Haste, and has 50 H2H skill than someone who has played for 4 years and still doesn't understand the basics of the game. That Mnk will skill up to cap eventually, and when they're capped, those other players will still be TP'ing in Optical Hats and STR gear.

[jeffanddane]

there weren't as many as now greatgaurdian lol . . . . and i am one who thinks haste is over rated but thats because i am a countering tanking monk in abyssea ^_^ i know haste is important but not for my build its just a +.

[Ramsos]

Ram i played this game through Japanese beta till now thats a long time . . . . Before it was only a few when ToAU came out for about 3 months and now that abyssea started there are people that don't know what TA, Enmity on cures,Provoke flash timers, how to properly use summons etc . . . .. . .. If you don't see this then your just a bad player like those people . ..

Ive played this game since NA release. I know my original server (ifrit) was a cesspool of fail and probably taints my perspective of pre-abyssea, but I remember just as many terrible players back then as I see now. Its just easier to find them nowadays since they wear 5/5 perle/aurore/teal.

[Cream_Soda]

No, there weren't. There were plenty.

I was going to post a link to the original BG Gimp/Confused/WTF thread from 2007 but the first couple of pages are just stupid, so I won't bother. Needless to say, there were not "ALOT less" bad players before Abyssea. There are plenty of really bad players now, too. And just like in 2003, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, and 2010, most of them don't even realize they're horrible players. If anything, they stand up and defend themselves claiming that they're just different, they have their own opinions, it doesn't matter if they use underleveled or mismatched subs, don't swap gear, or think Haste is worthless.

Honestly, I'd rather have a Mnk who swaps gear, TPs in Haste, and has 50 H2H skill than someone who has played for 4 years and still doesn't understand the basics of the game. That Mnk will skill up to cap eventually, and when they're capped, those other players will still be TP'ing in Optical Hats and STR gear.
/thread !

[Greatguardian]

there weren't as many as now greatgaurdian lol . . . . and i am one who thinks haste is over rated but thats because i am a countering tanking monk in abyssea ^_^ i know haste is important but not for my build its just a +.

Yeah. There were. I'm a counter-tanking Verethragna MNK, but that doesn't mean I ever have less than 26% Haste in gear (256/1024, etc). Want to know the best part? A lot of the people complaining about "bad players from Abyssea", are what we would call bad players. I won't name names, because that would be flaming or whatever. But I find it incredibly ironic nonetheless.

It's like the pot screaming to the blacksmith about how his new hammer is making kettles that are too black.

[Nacht]

I don't think I'd level another job past SJ levels if they raised the level minimum in abyssea. Prior to abyssea, I had stopped leveling new jobs just because of how gay leveling was.

Raising the min level months after introducing abyssea would be a huge kick in the balls. If it had been introduced that way, that's one thing, but changing it months after releasing the expansions is just a dick move.

[Zagen]

Ram i played this game through Japanese beta till now thats a long time . . . . Before it was only a few when ToAU came out for about 3 months and now that abyssea started there are people that don't know what TA, Enmity on cures,Provoke flash timers, how to properly use summons etc . . . .. . .. If you don't see this then your just a bad player like those people . ..
I have played since the beginning of 2004 and I can tell you that I met plenty of people that fit your description. Heck for a while I was one of them. This isn't new because of any given expansion.

I remember people mocking me for being a galka summoner before even seeing how I play just because I picked galka as my race and then wondering how I was cheating because I made the MP work just as well as the taru summoners they played with before me. The secret was food + crafting Pineapple Juices on the fly...

Nothing SE will ever do, be it slow down EXP rate, speed up EXP rate, raise Level Caps, or lower Level Caps will ever stop a player who refuses to do any research or take advise when given from sucking.

If you have a problem with a player who truly refuses to learn then just don't play with them, if you have a problem with an event functioning a certain way then either don't participate or find a way to make it work for you.

[jeffanddane]

Yeah but what you guys are missing is the players are worse now . . . . how is standing there opening chests going to make you know your job or the abilities that it has . . . .How the hell you going to learn anything standing there ? There were bad players my whole playing exp since Japanese beta . . . . But now where near what we have now . . . . There was always that 1 thf, whm, smn etc that didnt know there job . . .. but now i am encountering them every single time i party or every single time i am hosting an event and alot of these people didnt show up till after abyssea so maybe they were there before and i didnt notice or maybe its because people stand around for 60 lvls not learning there damn job . . .

[Greatguardian]

Yeah but what you guys are missing is the players are worse now . . . . how is standing there opening chests going to make you know your job or the abilities that it has . . . .How the hell you going to learn anything standing there ? There were bad players my whole playing exp since Japanese beta . . . . But now where near what we have now . . . . There was always that 1 thf, whm, smn etc that didnt know there job . . .. but now i am encountering them every single time i party or every single time i am hosting an event and alot of these people didnt show up till after abyssea so maybe they were there before and i didnt notice or maybe its because people stand around for 60 lvls not learning there damn job . . .


It's like the pot screaming to the blacksmith about how his new hammer is making kettles that are too black.

Learn game mechanics first. Cast stones later.

[Komori]

You encounter them every party because there are 12 more people there? Just a guess. Doesn't mean they're any more or any less common than they were before.

And people who want to excel will look up information on the job.

[Zagen]

Yeah but what you guys are missing is the players are worse now . . . . how is standing there opening chests going to make you know your job or the abilities that it has . . . .How the hell you going to learn anything standing there ? There were bad players my whole playing exp since Japanese beta . . . . But now where near what we have now . . . . There was always that 1 thf, whm, smn etc that didnt know there job . . .. but now i am encountering them every single time i party or every single time i am hosting an event and alot of these people didnt show up till after abyssea so maybe they were there before and i didnt notice or maybe its because people stand around for 60 lvls not learning there damn job . . .

Well considering I leeched BST from 30+ I learned how to play the job through research >.> I mean using Call Beast with the Crab Familiar and fighting a monster wouldn't let me know its level cap was 75 checking the info available on Wiki did. Reading guides other players have written gave me all the information I needed to know how to play the job.

Oh I also leeched PLD from 30. And I can tell you from having leveled it on another character years ago learning how to play PLD in EXP is nothing like learning how to play PLD for endgame if your group actually uses PLD for endgame. Again asking questions and doing research taught me how to play the job not EXPing years ago. Well that's not completely true EXPing did teach me Flash whenever its up and Cure 3 was a better option over Cure 4 due to MP management being a problem... Oh wait scratch the last part since in Abyssea MP isn't an issue if you use MM.

[jeffanddane]

Well exempt the people who did lvl it previously. Focus on the people who lvl it for the awesome looking gear they see on people. There are going to be people who lvl the job because they have previously lvled it before but there a tons more who just want to lvl the job just so they have the option. And research alone doesn't make you as skilled as someone who has experienced the actual situation.

[Greatguardian]

Well exempt the people who did lvl it previously. Focus on the people who lvl it for the awesome looking gear they see on people. There are going to be people who lvl the job because they have previously lvled it before but there a tons more who just want to lvl the job just so they have the option. And research alone doesn't make you as skilled as someone who has experienced the actual situation.

Research alone vs Experience alone, my leeched RDM90 will destroy 99.9% of RDMs freaking out about leeching who only swap NQ staves.

[jeffanddane]

lol sorry every rdm i know will crush your researched rdm. . . . because there skilled at what they do because they been in the actual situations.

[Ramsos]

lol sorry every rdm i know will crush your researched rdm. . . . because there skilled at what they do because they been in the actual situations.

So let me get this straight. Every rdm who didnt leech their rdm to 90 is better than every rdm who did leech their rdm to 90, right?

[Zagen]

lol sorry every rdm i know will crush your researched rdm. . . . because there skilled at what they do because they been in the actual situations.
What undocumented situation would those be?

[Greatguardian]

idk bro, they probably developed their "Run around obstacles in wide circles" skills over years of intense training.

[Nacht]

lol sorry every rdm i know will crush your researched rdm. . . . because there skilled at what they do because they been in the actual situations.

You seem to be generalizing everyone into one category: people who leech suck. In fact, there are 2 categories of people. People who are retarded and people who aren't retarded.

People who are retarded are going to be retarded regardless of whether they leech their job to 90 or not. In time, they might become slightly less retarded, but for the most part, they're retarded.

People who aren't retarded are going to do fine playing whatever job regardless of whether they leech or not. They might need a few days or even a week or so to finish skilling up and what not. However, because they're not retarded, once that week is up, you're not going to be able to tell them apart from these so called skilled people who have been in actual situations.

[Ramsos]

I ask because I know a rdm (who lvled the job before level sync existed) who died trying to hold a single raptor add in valley of sorrows because "I cant solo these mobs on rdm because I dont have joyeuse". Personally, I would trust any leeched rdm over this guy.

[jeffanddane]

I am not saying that all rdms who been in the real situation are most likely better i am saying all researched jobs lack the experienced needed to handle situations . . . . Research can only go so far. . . I am sorry but you cant stick a group of lvl 90s together and research a mob and expect them to win with 99.9% accuracy i am sorry just not going to happen. The key to victory is the experienced gained in the trials of hardship not something handed to you on a silver platter so you can be lazy and unknowledgeable about your current job. Most of that research you read is research boughten to you by players who have tested and tried for your convenience so you don't have to move your lazy fingers extra to find out yourself. . .

[Greatguardian]

I am not saying that all rdms who been in the real situation are most likely better i am saying all researched jobs lack the experienced needed to handle situations . . . . Research can only go so far. . . I am sorry but you cant stick a group of lvl 90s together and research a mob and expect them to win with 99.9% accuracy i am sorry just not going to happen. The key to victory is the experienced gained in the trials of hardship not something handed to you on a silver platter so you can be lazy and unknowledgeable about your current job. Most of that research you read is research boughten to you by players who have tested and tried for your convenience so you don't have to move your lazy fingers extra to find out yourself. . .

I do this all the time.

[Zagen]

I ask because I know a rdm (who lvled the job before level sync existed) who died trying to hold a single raptor add in valley of sorrows because "I cant solo these mobs on rdm because I dont have joyeuse". Personally, I would trust any leeched rdm over this guy.
That guy must have missed the lesson on sleep nuking during all that EXP he got, oh wait...

[jeffanddane]

Not all people who leeched sucked . . . But most do.... Not all people who play there job are good but most of them are . ..