Raise the minimum allowable job level in Abyssea from 30 to 70+

[Kuishen]

Does not matter how old the game is, Ultima Online did not do this, EverQuest did not do this, and they are both a good bit older then FFXI. Place a cap on the new zones, and make people do things the right way. The idea of stepping up the level caps is even a better idea, although I would put it at more like 50/60/70.

and really? Not breeding laziness? You stand there and leech EXP, how is that not lazy?

They are also different games.

Explain to me why YOUR way is the RIGHT way.

And you're generally busy opening boxes and now running back and forth to get ops. In a good exp party a chest leech should have no time to sit there doing nothing. urdoinitwrong apparently.

[Kjara]

I think what she means is leveling is a part of a MMORPG (or any RPG for that matter) and just getting rid of that part in a day or two seems to sort of minimize the things to do in the game in the end (no more breaks between one pt and another, no more mid-level gearing, no more NM camping for mid-level gear etc.)
But I can't blame players for that really, unlike other FFs where each new area was 'suited' for the character's current level, most of FFXI activity now requires high level... I mean look at CoP it used to be maybe the only scenario non-lv75 players could partecipate to along with rank 1-5 missions and now that cap has been removed no one will do promies with lv30 players anymore. it's just "go grind and then solo it".
Maybe if we could get something that didn't push the player into reaching 90 asap people would burn less.

[Kuishen]

After leveing what is there to do? You can work on AF3+2 which does not really take that much time when looking at how it use to be to get your AF2/gods. Soo what we are left to do is level a job to 90, spend a week getting the skillups needed. Then another 2 weeks of farming to get AF3+2 and you Emp. Weapon. Then your done. You don't need an endgame LS anymore cause what are you going to fight? So all you are stating is that this game is now at it's end and SE can pretty much stop any updates cause everyone is happy with the final result we have.

That is NOT what this game was built for. If you have played this game for the 8+ years most have then you know what we all went through when getting our first lvl 75. You can say no one liked leveling but there was 3 times the amount of people on the servers 7 you could always get a PT invite. now you either pu your flag up to go to abyssea, lvl synch. or just /tell people asking to key whore or leech. WOW that is just sad, the difficulty level of this game is at a 2 now. Maybe the only job that is still fun & they are not able to assist it in any way is Blue Mage. Atleast i still have to get spells the old way or would you prefer just being able to buy those spells as well?

I am having a hard time understanding why people are so in love with just logging online playing for 6 hours & getting a lvl 9 job plus hlaf an Emp. Weapon completed.

This just in, perfecting your gear only takes 6 hours.

[rog]

Again leveling from 30 to 75 in a day is horrible in an MMORPG environment, it breeds nothing but laziness.

it is sad how spoiled MMORPG players have been in recent years.......
Says who ?

[Kuishen]

After 51 pages of the same 3 or 4 arguments being refuted by the same 3 or 4 points of logic, I fail to see how this thread is still relevant. Done repeating myself, you all have fun arguing over something that won't happen.

[Jerynh]

I haven't posted on FFXI yet, but I was reading this and got a little annoyed. Don't point out that this is a repeat thread... I don't care.

The reason that most people on this thread don't agree with the original poster is because most everyone that agrees with the original poster has already left the game. A HUGE percentage of people no longer play because of Abyssea. When I started in 2004, the goal was already end game, but you had to put the work in to get to Dynamis, Limbus, or Sea. There was a sense of pride in the jobs you had leveled to 75 (which took a long time) because you had put in so much work to get there. You knew how to play it best and it felt like yours. Ask any of those people that has left, including myself, the biggest reasons why. They'll tell you the same thing. "30-90 in a day? All the gear I spent years earning is worthless? F this.". Abyssea destroyed the pride and joy I had in my character, and for that reason I hardly ever log in anymore.

The original poster is dead on. Unfortunately, it would be devastating to change it now. Abyssea should have been that way from the beginning. If you all enjoy leveling quickly and everything coming easy, sure, that's fine. But understand that YOU are the minority, not us, those that have left, so seriously... Grow up. Kudos to the OP for sticking around through it all.

Just because the game is 8 years old doesn't mean it should be any easier. If I turn on an old RPG/FF... It's still the same game.

[chubrocka]

I haven't posted on FFXI yet, but I was reading this and got a little annoyed. Don't point out that this is a repeat thread... I don't care.

The reason that most people on this thread don't agree with the original poster is because most everyone that agrees with the original poster has already left the game. A HUGE percentage of people no longer play because of Abyssea. When I started in 2004, the goal was already end game, but you had to put the work in to get to Dynamis, Limbus, or Sea. There was a sense of pride in the jobs you had leveled to 75 (which took a long time) because you had put in so much work to get there. You knew how to play it best and it felt like yours. Ask any of those people that has left, including myself, the biggest reasons why. They'll tell you the same thing. "30-90 in a day? All the gear I spent years earning is worthless? F this.". Abyssea destroyed the pride and joy I had in my character, and for that reason I hardly ever log in anymore.

The original poster is dead on. Unfortunately, it would be devastating to change it now. Abyssea should have been that way from the beginning. If you all enjoy leveling quickly and everything coming easy, sure, that's fine. But understand that YOU are the minority, not us, those that have left, so seriously... Grow up. Kudos to the OP for sticking around through it all.

Just because the game is 8 years old doesn't mean it should be any easier. If I turn on an old RPG/FF... It's still the same game.


I agree. I havent been on the game for more then 3-5 hours in 2 months. FFXI was a HELP and CO-OP base game. you needed people to accel. You felt AWESOME for getting something done!

Jerynh, You are right on in my oppinion.. Hope like you it fixes itself soon..

[Ezikiel]

I think this is a modest request. 30 is much too low to do anything in Abyssea. We know it specifically for key-whoring until you get into the upper levels in which case you are forced to skill-up and obtain spells that you missed out on with your exp binge.

I'm not calling anyone out who does this, but you got to admit it is kinda lame to be able to do this.

i SAY LEAVE IT ALONE I LOVE IT THERE'S A BUNCH OF JOBS I WANNA PLAY BUT NOT IN PARTY DYNAMIC SO I JUST BURN THEM FOR MY OWN SELFISH GAIN LIKE NINJA I DON'T WANT TANK FOR A PARTY BUT I WILL GO SOLO MY SELS WITH THIS JOB

[annewandering]

One good reason for the 30 requirement is for leveling subjobs. 37>50 goes quick for a job you never intended to use for anything but subjob. ^^

[Vinceroth]

i like the idea of being able to burn jobs from 30 upward fast, but it's also really lame...i know fan base isn't what it used to be, and i know it's really hard to form an actual pt now and days for anything...but come on...i was for it in the beginning but once you get into a really good aby pt then see it decline extremely fast bc everyone and their mother is wanting to swap out to a lower lvl job and mooch...it's crazy...

[Penance]

If you are that keen on lvling outside of abyssea go ahead, they increased exp so yay for you. But i personally do not like waiting hours for an invite , until i get one when im afk or about to go to bed

I would rather see the cap be lowered.

I also want to point out that people were leaving before Abyssea were introduced, not because of. I take pride in my SMN/WHM/BLU/BRD , but certainly not because i leveled a very longtime to get it up, but because i enjoy playing the job. People have been searching ways to increase exp since before abyssea (overcamped colibri). I've been doing salvage for months now and have not seen a single gate widow pop its frustrating and when things like that add up, thats when you decide you need a break from the game.

[wish12oz]

I think they should lower it to level 1, instead of being as high as 30!

[Kailea_Nagisa]

thats another problem with people, waiting for an EXP party? why are you waiting? Create your own, duo, trio, something, but dont stand there and pick your nose.

[Zlokava]

I know how this may sound, but I am strongly against raising level restriction from lvl 30 to lvl 70 in Abyssea.

Ive noticed that many people here concern themselves with equity and fair play among various players - but i rarely see
comments, where people actually think of raising lvl restriction, as of something that might just as well seem unfair to some of the players...

New players, returning players, casual gamers and such - might all feel neglected should SE react positively to this suggestion.

The game has changed, it is nobodys fault that leveling and gearing up a certain job before, took much more time than it does now. Why should only some benefit from Abyssea, if we all could?

Scores of players are returning every day - exactly because they think that they now have an equal chance to catch up and progress with the more experienced players on regular basis.

Principally i would be for level 70+ restriction, but since it hasnt been imposed from the very start - i see nothing fair in changing that now.

After all - if you dont like keywhores, dont be one, and dont invite them to your parties;
but as an old but a returning player, i have a feeling that its not any form of altruism, that bothers most people who are for this kind of change.

Why cant you just all be happy with your own progress ingame? Why is it so important to compare oneself with others?
(And yes, ive been only absent for the past two years - before i did stuff the hard way too. I know how it all looked before.)

[Miiyo]

Level 50 Cap. Forcibly make it so you can't obtain the AF3 if you don't have both af1 and af2. Makes it so you have to explore other areas of the game.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

even I find that to be a bit much, the only problem is that leveling is no balanced through the world anymore, gear limitations like that would not really make a difference.

[rog]

Level 50 Cap. Forcibly make it so you can't obtain the AF3 if you don't have both af1 and af2. Makes it so you have to explore other areas of the game.
Why would you want everyone to waste their time getting useless gear that they'l never equip before they can get af3?

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Why would you want everyone to waste their time getting useless gear that they'l never equip before they can get af3?

useless? alot of AF makes for good gear swapping stuff later on, I use both AF and AF2 in gear swaps, that said though, yeah an AF restriction would be a bit silly. I think the best idea so far is the cap incrimintaions. 50/60/70

[rog]

useless? alot of AF makes for good gear swapping stuff later on, I use both AF and AF2 in gear swaps, that said though, yeah an AF restriction would be a bit silly. I think the best idea so far is the cap incrimintaions. 50/60/70
90% of it is useless. Another 5% isn't worth the inventory space.

[xSylarx]

it doesn't matter most everybody have leeched all the jobs that that wanted to already. Beside that exp party are 4 noobs all of us that had job at 75 have been fully merited and capped along time ago. The age of the outside of abyssea exp party is dead. Abyssea is faster exp and the only reason why people still complain is because they have leech all there jobs so its wrong 4 anyone else to have the benefit that you have had. If you don't like leeches build your who party and stop complaining i had 8 job at level 75 b4 abyssea and i work extremely hard to do that and cap all there skills and i am not complaining. Get over it already most people that boost level like that are under capped gimped gear and no job experience.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

it doesn't matter most everybody have leeched all the jobs that that wanted to already. Beside that exp party are 4 noobs all of us that had job at 75 have been fully merited and capped along time ago. The age of the outside of abyssea exp party is dead. Abyssea is faster exp and the only reason why people still complain is because they have leech all there jobs so its wrong 4 anyone else to have the benefit that you have had. If you don't like leeches build your who party and stop complaining i had 8 job at level 75 b4 abyssea and i work extremely hard to do that and cap all there skills and i am not complaining. Get over it already most people that boost level like that are under capped gimped gear and no job experience.

not true, I want there to be a cap, and I have only been in Abyssea 2 times, and that was with my 75 DRG, I came back to the game just 2 weeks ago, and found it sad that you could level so fast and with such little effort. I dont care how many have abused it already, it needs to stop. SE wants this game to last longer, that wont happen when the player base can reach max level and max merits in less then a week..........

[rog]

it needs to stop.
Still haven't seen any compelling reasons why.

[RaenRyong]

SE wants this game to last longer, that wont happen when the player base can reach max level and max merits in less then a week..........

Spoilers: there is much more to the game than exping.

[Linh]

Spoilers: there is much more to the game than exping.

Unless exp'ing is an actual ADVENTURE. This *is* an RPG like Dungeons and Dragons, right?

Oh wait I'm sorry, ADVENTURING in this game before meant standing in one place waiting for a helpless pink bird to come along so you can jus kill it.

Make the entire leveling process fun, adventurous, and intuitive, or else the game will only have one level: end game.

[rog]

or else the game will only have one level: end game.
Sounds good, even considering you are ignoring quite a bit.

[Atomic646]

When you bought abyssea, the expansion it self says "levels 30+" therefore they cant change the level cap to enter. We bought it when the cap was 30, To change it would be changing the product in which we already purchased. the only way they can "Legally" change it, is if every single person you bought it, agrees to it.

[Tummie]

If SE really wanted to, they could easily solve this by imposing a penalty on the maximum exp on personal chains and exp gained from chests based on the players level.

Level 30 - 49 = -90% experience penalty
Level 50 - 59 = -75% experience penalty
Level 60 - 69 = -30% experience penalty
Level 70 - 90 = No Penalty

[Tim]

People are talking about how there is more to do than exp... well I have met a lot of newer people in the game who have 5 or more 90 jobs that do not even know what sky is... CoP is now soloable to ultima/omega fight and people cant even do that. I did all my missions before the cap's were removed and the fights were easier... i finished CoP before gear sycned down to the battlefield level. these new players do not care about doing anything other than abyssea and when they are out of stones they complain about how bored they are. I used Drakesbane in an abyssea party one day and half of the alliance asked if that was a new WS... when i told them floor 100 nyzule they asked me what that was... I think that by leveling the old way you may not make better players or what not but instead you get certain experiences that are important. Like doing you first assault or missions before you are at 75+. I understand both sides to the arguement and I will say that neither are wrong... just different points of view. (the old way is my personal opinion)

[GERM]

Even if the capped isn't raised for leveling implementing some sort of basic advancement through the game would still allow for people to learn about the game weather its required mission 10 or finish CoP or a raised min. level ..

I used Drakesbane in an abyssea party one day and half of the alliance asked if that was a new WS... when i told them floor 100 nyzule they asked me what that was..
I feel like my IQ is dropping with this kind of unexperienced player.. I didn't get involved in any end game prior to me makeing my way to it.. So why allow people who don't know anything about the game get involved in end game and then turn around and ask questions that are self explanatory from just the personal experience of making it to that point..

[GERM]

it doesn't matter most everybody have leeched all the jobs that that wanted to already. Beside that exp party are 4 noobs all of us that had job at 75 have been fully merited and capped along time ago. The age of the outside of abyssea exp party is dead. Abyssea is faster exp and the only reason why people still complain is because they have leech all there jobs so its wrong 4 anyone else to have the benefit that you have had. If you don't like leeches build your who party and stop complaining i had 8 job at level 75 b4 abyssea and i work extremely hard to do that and cap all there skills and i am not complaining. Get over it already most people that boost level like that are under capped gimped gear and no job experience.

This is untrue I had 5 lvl 75s when abyssea came out I had 3 lvl 75s when level sync was released.. I want all capped jobs but Im not going to leech my way to get there because I like knowing what a job is capable of doing at certain levels.. You sit there and get 30 levels how many abilities do you get? How would you know how to use them? Under what circumstance would you beable to use them? by saying this you are just claiming the game is not worth playing except for the end game when in fact the point of playing the game is for the experience.. there is a game outside abyssea and those that are starting and learning to play and going just for abyssea are limiting their experince to that one aspect of the game.. Im sure there is going to be more content added outside of abyssea.. but the fact that SqEnix has created such a hype on abyssea is going to leave people lost when they add additional content.. I don't see them adding anymore abyssea zones and the mobs aren't going to get harder but there are 9 levels to go so what are those 9 levels are going to be focusing on? additional content possibly?

[Tim]

The point of that post was not to say that people need to do endgame before their time but to me by the time a person is level 90 or has multiple level 90's they should at least know what certain things are. And your comment about "these kind of people" is uncalled for. I shared my opinion and did not insult anybody.

[Greatguardian]

No, you're all right (not you in particular, Tim), when SE makes leveling easier they reduce the average skill level of the max level playerbase. I mean look at all these players who don't know what Sky is. And then the enormous crowd here that doesn't even know what Moon is! How many people have exp'd there? I bet none! Moon parties are dead, and it's easier EXP that killed them!

Heck, most people don't even know how to make a Magic Burst in an Exp party! Just because weaponskilling at random does more damage and gets more exp, it is preventing people from learning a fundamental aspect of the game. I can see my friend walking into a party on Black Mage, and ask who is going to be starting their Distortion SC, only to be laughed at!

It's obvious that anyone who started playing the game after 2007 and has reached max level did so without picking up vital skills necessary for the rest of the game. I do not want to organize a pickup shout Dynamis run and then find out that half the members don't know how to Magic Burst the NMs! It's frustrating and a complete waste of my time.

These players need to learn their jobs and level up the old way. That's why I propose we remove all monsters from ToAU and WotG areas. The reduced difficulty of leveling in these areas, home to Colibri-leeching, is obviously at fault for creating thousands upon thousands of players who can't even Magic Burst exp mobs.

[rog]

No, you're all right (not you in particular, Tim), when SE makes leveling easier they reduce the average skill level of the max level playerbase. I mean look at all these players who don't know what Sky is. And then the enormous crowd here that doesn't even know what Moon is! How many people have exp'd there? I bet none! Moon parties are dead, and it's easier EXP that killed them!

Heck, most people don't even know how to make a Magic Burst in an Exp party! Just because weaponskilling at random does more damage and gets more exp, it is preventing people from learning a fundamental aspect of the game. I can see my friend walking into a party on Black Mage, and ask who is going to be starting their Distortion SC, only to be laughed at!

It's obvious that anyone who started playing the game after 2007 and has reached max level did so without picking up vital skills necessary for the rest of the game. I do not want to organize a pickup shout Dynamis run and then find out that half the members don't know how to Magic Burst the NMs! It's frustrating and a complete waste of my time.

These players need to learn their jobs and level up the old way. That's why I propose we remove all monsters from ToAU and WotG areas. The reduced difficulty of leveling in these areas, home to Colibri-leeching, is obviously at fault for creating thousands upon thousands of players who can't even Magic Burst exp mobs.
Just like modern technology has caused 99.99% of people to not have any idea how to do basic farming, or hunting! I mean, if you go back a few thousand years, almost everyone was either a farmer or hunter. But now, almost no one can manage either task.

[GERM]

my bad hope the correction works better for you

[Greatguardian]

Just like modern technology has caused 99.99% of people to not have any idea how to do basic farming, or hunting! I mean, if you go back a few thousand years, almost everyone was either a farmer or hunter. But now, almost no one can manage either task.

Exactly!

Also, I think anyone who got a 75+ job after the release of ToAU should have it reset back to level 10 so that people can learn it properly! Retroactive correction is the only way to truly fix the problem!

[Tim]

lol nice correction.... but incorrect. I am very experienced. I respect your opinion though.

[RaenRyong]

Remove all exp mobs but Soulflayers and Slugs. Reduce exp gain to 1% of what it is now. Finally we will have only the SKILLED players at level 90.

[GERM]

wasn't saying you were unexperienced was saying the kind of person who we are discussing that is lacking knowledge of the game to the point they have to wait to abyssea to discover there is additional content out there that can make a difference, I apologize if it sounded like I was implying you, I was not sir

[Tim]

oh ok, sorry about the miscommunication. I do not want to offend or insult anybody on the forums. I only want to share my opinion.

[rog]

Remove all exp mobs but Soulflayers and Slugs. Reduce exp gain to 1% of what it is now. Finally we will have only the SKILLED players at level 90.
Just to be fair, we should leave fafnir giving full exp.

[Penance]

Regarding to the reply made about making your own party, sometimes you dont have the choice to make your own party when the correct jobs are not available, (or nobody is looking for one). I'm not sure what server you are on, but on the server i leveled there were rarely the correct jobs looking for a party. And if you ignore the fact of a good setup and just go with what you have youll end up with bad experience and people wont stay (Yay at 5/6 and no healer). This is Pre-abyssea I'm talking about. For whm i did not have to look so much, for smn i had to be main heal in a lot of partys (what does that teach me that whm hasnt already).

I personally spend a lot of time on Final Fantasy, but there are also people who do not play this more then 4 hours each day, who have a family or a lot of work. The way abyssea is implemented a lot more people have access to good Experience and good gear

ONe of the reason they might have introduced this, is due to the introduction of FF14. Its already too time consuming to play both games and there are a lot of Final Fantasy fans who want to play both 11 and 14. Getting exp faster is time that can be invested in FF14.

[Miera]

So instead of Abyssea burning, we will be stuck in East Ronfaure [S] and Qufim? Or Astral Burning?

People are using Abyssea to level because the old way SUCKED. Trying to change it is just imposing your nostalgia on others. If people loved levelling the old way so much, they would.

Yes, they did suck but standing there and not earning your levels sucks worse.

[Greatguardian]

Yes, they did suck but standing there and not earning your levels sucks worse.

This is why we need to get rid of all of these easy ways to get exp that prevent people from properly earning their levels. Get rid of FOV, get rid of ToAU camps, WotG camps, Campaign, Besieged, and those silly Heroes Reflections things. EXP rewards from battlefields should also be eliminated, level caps on CoP areas and level sync for equipment in those zones should be reversed. People need to earn their Rajas rings too.

[Meyi]

This is why we need to get rid of all of these easy ways to get exp that prevent people from properly earning their levels. Get rid of FOV, get rid of ToAU camps, WotG camps, Campaign, Besieged, and those silly Heroes Reflections things. EXP rewards from battlefields should also be eliminated, level caps on CoP areas and level sync for equipment in those zones should be reversed. People need to earn their Rajas rings too.

...No.

The game has been made easier. Returning back to its difficult mode will only cause people to quit playing. I would consider not playing as much anymore. I've enjoyed the new challenges presented in FFXI through soloing.

All of the hardcore players had their years to feel good about their accomplishments. This is the year 2011. Let's have some fun in the game for a change.

[Detoxy]

i agree the old ways r dead and gone get over people there will be leechers FOREVER!!!!

[Miera]

i wouldn't say get rid of those Camps, they are actually helping the less fortunate jobs to level such as BLM. When they came out with the Wamoras and such, that was what BLMs ate, slept and Breathed all the way to 75 because no one wanted them in their parties. I had to also level my DNC with FoV and CoP areas, granted back then FoV was only once per game day but it was quite helpful to a slow job such as that. Campaign battle also was pretty helpful. I don't think we should get rid of that either since you cannot really Leech from Campaign battles because XP earning was based on your efforts in battle, not only that but you had to be in Campaign battle at a certain level or you'd get the snot beat out of you.

I know someone who just started the game and started out as a BLM then it was already too late to find parties because abyssea was like crack to people and everyone practicaly stayed in it. I warned him that BLM was a hard job to level top began with and I tried showing the ropes of how you effectively play a Mage job. He never understood pet sniping and sleep nuking and all the wonderful things that mages do to solo eventually he burned his way to 90 and still doesn't have a clue what time nuking is. My only beef is the level cap, not the other zones, those were great zones to party in and figuring out how to play your job effectively.

[Miera]

...No.

The game has been made easier. Returning back to its difficult mode will only cause people to quit playing. I would consider not playing as much anymore. I've enjoyed the new challenges presented in FFXI through soloing.

All of the hardcore players had their years to feel good about their accomplishments. This is the year 2011. Let's have some fun in the game for a change.
I understand with what you are saying but how easy do you want things? Once SE hands everything to you you'll have nothing else left to do.

[Greatguardian]

i wouldn't say get rid of those Camps, they are actually helping the less fortunate jobs to level such as BLM. When they came out with the Wamoras and such, that was what BLMs ate, slept and Breathed all the way to 75 because no one wanted them in their parties. I had to also level my DNC with FoV and CoP areas, granted back then FoV was only once per game day but it was quite helpful to a slow job such as that. Campaign battle also was pretty helpful. I don't think we should get rid of that either since you cannot really Leech from Campaign battles because XP earning was based on your efforts in battle, not only that but you had to be in Campaign battle at a certain level or you'd get the snot beat out of you.

I know someone who just started the game and started out as a BLM then it was already too late to find parties because abyssea was like crack to people and everyone practicaly stayed in it. I warned him that BLM was a hard job to level top began with and I tried showing the ropes of how you effectively play a Mage job. He never understood pet sniping and sleep nuking and all the wonderful things that mages do to solo eventually he burned his way to 90 and still doesn't have a clue what time nuking is. My only beef is the level cap, not the other zones, those were great zones to party in and figuring out how to play your job effectively.

Incorrect!

It is those camps specifically which lead to the demise of the Black Mage in EXP! Do you know what BLM did before solo'ing and manaburning Roaches? They were a vital member of the party! It was the introduction of Treasures of Aht Urhgan camps which pushed Black Mage and the Magic Burst to the sidelines, undermining game balance for years to come. People are very obviously NOT learning their jobs well in ToAU and WotG parties if they do not know how to properly MB in Exp.

Campaign and Besieged were also very easy to leech from. Anyone can AoE buff in campaign by hitting a couple macros over and over and get exp! In besieged, you can cap your exp gain in 2 minutes and then leech the win from everyone else!
These systems encourage leeching and should be removed from the game. If you are not grinding level 80 RDM Dancing Weapons for exp, you are not learning your job.


@Meyi: I'm trolling. I'm tired of hearing the same argument over and over. It's funny, though, to see people so viciously condemn Abyssea while leaving ToAU and WotG intact. It makes it very clear that it's not about people learning their jobs; it's just about people having it easier than them. By their logic I should disown all of them for having used Colibri to level up.

[Dubberrucky]

Are you seriously trying to compare standing there to spamming birds? The bird camps were boring I took every opportunity to party on anything other than birds personally. The fact remains though that even in the days of bird parties you were still required to actively participate so no its not even a close comparison.

[Greatguardian]

Are you seriously trying to compare standing there to spamming birds? The bird camps were boring I took every opportunity to party on anything other than birds personally. The fact remains though that even in the days of bird parties you were still required to actively participate so no its not even a close comparison.

Are you seriously trying to compare hitting a WS macro over and over to tactically setting up a Skillchain and Magic Burst that requires coordination from the entire party? The fact remains that even in the days of Bibiki Bay parties, DDs were required to be awake and alert instead of a zombie whose participation is limited to 1-2 macros and has no input from the rest of the group so no, it's not even a close comparison.

[Miera]

I know how it was like back in the day because I was told about how it was. I only started playing Back in 08 so I was used to ToAU. You shouldn't have to blame the zones for being unfriendly to certain jobs, infact that's not it at all, you should be more upset with the players for wanting to only kill mobs that were unfriendly to mages like the colibri. There are other things people could be Xping on other than those retarded pink birds, Its not the expansions fault that people only want to just kill them.

[Kuishen]

I know how it was like back in the day because I was told about how it was. I only started playing Back in 08 so I was used to ToAU. You shouldn't have to blame the zones for being unfriendly to certain jobs, infact that's not it at all, you should be more upset with the players for wanting to only kill mobs that were unfriendly to mages like the colibri. There are other things people could be Xping on other than those retarded pink birds, Its not the expansions fault that people only want to just kill them.

/facepalm

APPLY THE SAME LOGIC TO ABYSSEA.

Good holy god people are retarded.

[Greatguardian]

I know how it was like back in the day because I was told about how it was. I only started playing Back in 08 so I was used to ToAU. You shouldn't have to blame the zones for being unfriendly to certain jobs, infact that's not it at all, you should be more upset with the players for wanting to only kill mobs that were unfriendly to mages like the colibri. There are other things people could be Xping on other than those retarded pink birds, Its not the expansions fault that people only want to just kill them.

You shouldn't have to blame Abyssea for being unfriendly to newer players, in fact that's not it at all, you should be upset with players for only wanting to exp there and not in the overworld where low level players can get real parties. There are other things people could be exp'ing on other than those Abyssean fiends, it's not the expansion's fault that people only want to just kill them.

[rog]

Sill no valid reason why the minimum level should be raised. I'm starting to think such a reason does not exist.

[Kuishen]

Sill no valid reason why the minimum level should be raised. I'm starting to think such a reason does not exist.

Because there isn't.

[Dubberrucky]

Many reasons have been stated in this thread on both sides you simply choose not to acknowledge an opposing view.

[Kuishen]

Many reasons have been stated in this thread on both sides you simply choose not to acknowledge an opposing view.

All and I mean ALL have been shot down with simple logic or using your own logic against you. So in a sense, you're right. I choose not to acknowledge something that is stupid and/or wrong.

[Miera]

My word, resorting to calling people names, you are so good at debating.

You miught as well agree to disagree my friend

[Damane]

This is why we need to get rid of all of these easy ways to get exp that prevent people from properly earning their levels. Get rid of FOV, get rid of ToAU camps, WotG camps, Campaign, Besieged, and those silly Heroes Reflections things. EXP rewards from battlefields should also be eliminated, level caps on CoP areas and level sync for equipment in those zones should be reversed. People need to earn their Rajas rings too.

Do you like to suffer or are you a Masochist? 3k per hour PTs that were the standard in 2004.
Besides there is a logic why SE makes things easier. Go try find a normal PT past lvl 30. Good luck with it.

[Alkalinehoe]

Are you seriously trying to compare hitting a WS macro over and over to tactically setting up a Skillchain and Magic Burst that requires coordination from the entire party? The fact remains that even in the days of Bibiki Bay parties, DDs were required to be awake and alert instead of a zombie whose participation is limited to 1-2 macros and has no input from the rest of the group so no, it's not even a close comparison.
That "tactful" way of setting up a SC/MB was still inferior to spamming WS. Sure it takes coordination from a few players, but it did overall less damage.

Who cares if the DDs were being "zombies" if shit died faster? When I join EXP parties, I'd rather get exp and get done with it then setting up a SC/MB for the "lulz."

[Dubberrucky]

Are you seriously trying to compare hitting a WS macro over and over to tactically setting up a Skillchain and Magic Burst that requires coordination from the entire party? The fact remains that even in the days of Bibiki Bay parties, DDs were required to be awake and alert instead of a zombie whose participation is limited to 1-2 macros and has no input from the rest of the group so no, it's not even a close comparison.

No I was makeing no comparison between the 2 kinds of parties other than however since you asked for the comparison, even though colibri were boreing and mindless to fight are you still weren't 30 and afk to level on them. You also seem to be forgetting that colibri are not the only camp in the ToAU expansion I for one remember the crawlers and trolls being popular camps as well.

[Kuishen]

@Miera: After reposting the same fucking arguments over and over to refute arguments that you people continue to make even though it has been shown that you are all wrong and outnumbered, yes, I start calling people retarded, because apparently they can't grasp simple logic.

@Alkaline and Damane: He's trolling them with their own logic, he is anti-OP like the majority of us.

[Greatguardian]

my only arguement is the fact that people don't have to make much effert into leveling anymore.

They haven't for years. Compared to myself and a few others on this board, 99% of players didn't have to put much effort into leveling either. This argument has been rehashed with every new zone released since 2004. People get jealous when other people get things easier than them. It's not anything new. All that can be said is 'Get over it'.

[RaenRyong]

Do you like to suffer or are you a Masochist? 3k per hour PTs that were the standard in 2004.
Besides there is a logic why SE makes things easier. Go try find a normal PT past lvl 30. Good luck with it.

Wooooooooooooosh

[Damane]

Wooooooooooooosh

a rather big WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSHHHH

couldnt bring myself to read through 57 pages of pointless discussion

[rog]

Many reasons have been stated in this thread on both sides you simply choose not to acknowledge an opposing view.
I said valid reasons.

[Miera]

All I am hearing from you is "BAWWWW no one agrees with me, everyone is retarded and don't see my logic"

[Greatguardian]

No I was makeing no comparison between the 2 kinds of parties other than however since you asked for the comparison, even though colibri were boreing and mindless to fight are you still weren't 30 and afk to level on them. You also seem to be forgetting that colibri are not the only camp in the ToAU expansion I for one remember the crawlers and trolls being popular camps as well.

Both were easier than Moon. Both were done with TP burns. Nothing in ToAU taught you how to properly play jobs compared to Moon and Bibiki. Etc.

[Alkalinehoe]

It's also retarded hearing you talk about how you are right and everyone is wrong but you don't see me calling you a retarded prick.
Oho~! Wait.. I just did.
Oh snap!!!!

Btw hey miera :P

[Kuishen]

All I am hearing from you is "BAWWWW no one agrees with me, everyone is retarded and don't see my logic"

You keep ninja editing your posts. At least 5 other people on this very page have agreed with me. You can't read or count apparently so I reserve my right to call you retarded.

EDIT: On the last page.

[Miera]

They haven't for years. Compared to myself and a few others on this board, 99% of players didn't have to put much effort into leveling either. This argument has been rehashed with every new zone released since 2004. People get jealous when other people get things easier than them. It's not anything new. All that can be said is 'Get over it'.
Honestly, Its just all a bunch of wishful thinking on my part.

[Greatguardian]

Are people honestly taking my posts seriously or are you just trolling me back? :(

[Kuishen]

Honestly, Its just all a bunch of wishful thinking on my part.

It finally comes out. Wishful thinking without any valid reasons to back it up.

Glad we sorted that out.

[Miera]

I can continue to edit my posts however I want, got a problem with it?
Oh wait, I guess you do. What was it that you were saying to people who were against leeching in abyssea? "Get over it"?
Oh, yeah. get over it.


Hey Alk.

[Greatguardian]

Kuishen and I aren't the same person, just fyi.

[Damane]

TP burning didnt exist only since ToAU, did everyone forget about Sky Weapons or KRT monk burns? Or manaburning on SMN pets in sea!
I seriously dont see whats bad on leeching in Abyssea, it doesnt make you automaticly a "bad" player. A Player can learn shit later (or he wont because he is an Idiot). Not like its hard to play any Job in FFXI good/decent, if you know anyhting about stats, gearswaps etc.

[Kuishen]

I can continue to edit my posts however I want, got a problem with it?
Oh wait, I guess you do. What was it that you were saying to people who were against leeching in abyssea? "Get over it"?
Oh, yeah. get over it.


Hey Alk.

lol. Just lol.

EDIT:Also, GG beat me to it. Not the same person. Getting hard to keep track of who you're talking to while keeping up this retardation?

[Dubberrucky]

Both were easier than Moon. Both were done with TP burns. Nothing in ToAU taught you how to properly play jobs compared to Moon and Bibiki. Etc.

I disagree with you colibri in particular was much easier than moon though. Also maybe its a difference in servers but here we still partied in Bibiki before Abyssea as well as on birds. Then again Only tp burns I ever saw were on colibri the rest were all balanced party setups usually.

[Greatguardian]

I disagree with you colibri in particular was much easier than moon though. Also maybe its a difference in servers but here we still partied in Bibiki before Abyssea as well as on birds. Then again Only tp burns I ever saw were on colibri the rest were all balanced party setups usually.

Bibiki was adjusted a few times, so you probably just got Easy Bibiki. Having partied on Trolls myself, they are definitely easier than Moon.

Plus you have to take into account that the best head piece in the entire game was ye olde Optical Hat. Players having capped gear haste and more powerful weapons/armor is making mobs easier to kill, requiring less strategy overall to overcome. Even City Dynamis mobs, things of nightmares of players of yore, horrendous fiends that would cut a bloody swath into both of your alliances at the same time are now meek little kittens meant to be farmed for gil! In order to get rid of the easy mode, all gear released after Chains of Promathia needs to be eliminated from the game.

Edit: Pizza and Sushi also did not exist! These need to be removed as they make leveling easier and thus make players dumber.

[Zagen]

Instead of complaining about leeches you could be leveling (Edit: when the servers are back :) ) WAR/THF/WHM/RDM/BLU jobs and get 1-2 friends to do the same and then just small group your EXP.

Fell Cleave burning and BLU AoE burning say hi. If you don't like how something is being run then quit being a follower and lead your own group without leechers.

If someone is willing to shout, get a group of random people together so I don't have to lead/run the group and/or play at 100% skill level, oh and will cover popping chests so I don't have to burn my cru on keys and can save it for making gil or brews I'm not gonna complain.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

Some are taking things a bit to far (I am sure they are just trolling though)

No one, not even me wants to go back to 2-3k an hour parties, and yes TtoAU and WotG did effect parties, but Abyssea made things worse, leveling from 30 to 90 (or 99) so fast does not give a person time to learn the important things about said job the right way.

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.

[rog]

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.Or the first person will be so used to using /war, that they suck with using /nin, and can't cast shadows worth a shit. Ffxi is not a hard game. Anyone can easily pick up a job can play it without any trouble.

To demonstrate that point, i will explain a personal example. I currently have war leveled, yet i've never played it between 38-74. Never. And i leveled it to 37 back in 2004. And yet when i suddenly had it at 75, the first party i joined, i came on the top of the parse. I had never once played the job before, and i had maybe slightly above average gear. And right from the start, with no experience playing it before, i consistently came at the top of parses in exp parties. A little research in the job, some minor thought and planning was all it took. There is nothing difficult about ffxi. Anyone can easily master a job in under a week, and perform at above 80% performance by day 1.

[Greatguardian]

Some are taking things a bit to far (I am sure they are just trolling though)

No one, not even me wants to go back to 2-3k an hour parties, and yes TtoAU and WotG did effect parties, but Abyssea made things worse, leveling from 30 to 90 (or 99) so fast does not give a person time to learn the important things about said job the right way.

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.

I leeched my RDM (only 1 of my 7 jobs) to 90 in Abyssea and I doubt anyone would be able to tell the difference.

Edit: What Rog said, too. PLD in particular plays nothing like EXP in Endgame.

[Mrbeansman]

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.

Their both doing it wrong if there on pld.

[Alkalinehoe]

Some are taking things a bit to far (I am sure they are just trolling though)

No one, not even me wants to go back to 2-3k an hour parties, and yes TtoAU and WotG did effect parties, but Abyssea made things worse, leveling from 30 to 90 (or 99) so fast does not give a person time to learn the important things about said job the right way.

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.
I would go with the better player. It could be either one. I've met a PLD who leveled the "normal" way and another who abyssea burned it. The one who burned it didn't wipe to lolByakko every 3 minutes like the former.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

wow missed my point entirely, or you just don't want to accept the other side of the argument. There is a such thing as to easy, and FFXI is getting dangerously to close to that. Abyssea need to be capped higher, and some extra EXP penalties set for people lower then level 70.


I would go with the better player. It could be either one. I've met a PLD who leveled the "normal" way and another who abyssea burned it. The one who burned it didn't wipe to lolByakko every 3 minutes like the former.

well there will always be bad players, no matter how long they have played, I am talking more in the general sense.

[Miera]

I would go with the better player. It could be either one. I've met a PLD who leveled the "normal" way and another who abyssea burned it. The one who burned it didn't wipe to lolByakko every 3 minutes like the former.I've also played with a lolPLD who didn't learn Cure scrolls. ;o

It's not about PLDs anymore they are treated like Redheaded stepchildren now, its all about MNK or NIN or GTFO.

[Alkalinehoe]

I've also played with a lolPLD who didn't learn Cure scrolls. ;o

It's not about PLDs anymore they are treated like Redheaded stepchildren now, its all about MNK or NIN or GTFO.
Or DNC!!! /winkwinkwink.

My shell never lets me tank stuff on DNC though, always WHM. :(

[Ezikiel]

these threads are so funny if u hate 1 part of the game dont participate in it form a boycott shout in juno to form regular slow xp parties. you mad cause you lonely someone else getting to 90 in day doesnt hurt you at all except you have noone to xp with in those slow areas that you love. i heard the same complaints when ppl started to love those dang colibris at 55 or 37 if u couldn't get the camp you were mad at someone who did

[Henihhi]

The biggest problem that is popping up though with abyssea leeched jobs is people won't gear swap and have no idea what stats benefit that job most etc. I have had abyssea leeched blus try to get in on +2 runs that dont have basic spells let alone proc spells and spam me with whine /tells about how I am so mean for not letting them come and lot stuff when they are pretty much useless. Same goes for leeched blms, wars w/o red procs etc. If you are going to leech, at least get the other shit you need <spells ws etc> or dont bother to /tell me to try and get in. In years of playing pre abyssea i had 2 ppl /blist, since abyssea that list has grown tenfold. I have no issue with someone going to abyssea to get 30-90, but there is more stuff involved than just dinging 90.

[Greatguardian]

The biggest problem that is popping up though with abyssea leeched jobs is people won't gear swap and have no idea what stats benefit that job most etc. I have had abyssea leeched blus try to get in on +2 runs that dont have basic spells let alone proc spells and spam me with whine /tells about how I am so mean for not letting them come and lot stuff when they are pretty much useless. Same goes for leeched blms, wars w/o red procs etc. If you are going to leech, at least get the other shit you need <spells ws etc> or dont bother to /tell me to try and get in. In years of playing pre abyssea i had 2 ppl /blist, since abyssea that list has grown tenfold. I have no issue with someone going to abyssea to get 30-90, but there is more stuff involved than just dinging 90.

Remove the words "Abyssea Leeched" from your post and that's how FFXI has been since 2003. Do I need to link you to the Haste thread?

[Odintius]

I say the first goal of the party is to mpk the afk and leecher's problem solved >.>

[Ezikiel]

i had 75's before abyssea and i never gear swapped to each his own i know i will get flamed but im not gonna drag around 8 different sets of gear i swap staves but not much more than that. and if u say no gear swap you not getting full potential i can dual box better than some of you single

[Mrbeansman]

i had 75's before abyssea and i never gear swapped to each his own i know i will get flamed but im not gonna drag around 8 different sets of gear i swap staves but not much more than that. and if u say no gear swap you not getting full potential i can dual box better than some of you single

Does your dual box also not swap gear?

[Kuishen]

i had 75's before abyssea and i never gear swapped to each his own i know i will get flamed but im not gonna drag around 8 different sets of gear i swap staves but not much more than that. and if u say no gear swap you not getting full potential i can dual box better than some of you single

You wouldn't need to dual box if you swapped gear, cause you wouldn't suck as much/take as long.

[Zagen]

Some are taking things a bit to far (I am sure they are just trolling though)

No one, not even me wants to go back to 2-3k an hour parties, and yes TtoAU and WotG did effect parties, but Abyssea made things worse, leveling from 30 to 90 (or 99) so fast does not give a person time to learn the important things about said job the right way.

You can not tell me that some one leveling something like PLD in a normal time frame, and some one leveling PLD in a week or even two, then put them both up against a big endgame mob...... who is going to preform better? the first person.

I Abyssea Leeched my PLD and I can tell you it has changed nothing in the way I tank on MNK...

Lets be honest how much do you have to learn besides Flash when its up, recast Utsusemi ASAP when it drops, and macro in HP+ gear for a cure cheat macro. Oh by the way besides "Flash when its up" none of those things are learned by a PLD grinding EXP outside abyssea.

Edit: IMO the only job that requires any real learning is PUP and even then I'm debating if its just my unwillingness to learn how to control the puppet that makes me think its complicated.

[Ezikiel]

You wouldn't need to dual box if you swapped gear, cause you wouldn't suck as much/take as long.

never once said i HAD to dual i choose to sometimes gear swap doesnt make u invincible lol abyssea does

[Miera]

Or DNC!!! /winkwinkwink.

My shell never lets me tank stuff on DNC though, always WHM. :(And i am stuck as SCH. =\ I'd level NIN just to get a break from SCH if it werent for the fact that I don't want to buy a million stacks of tools a day. ;P

[Alkalinehoe]

And i am stuck as SCH. =\ I'd level NIN just to get a break from SCH if it werent for the fact that I don't want to buy a million stacks of tools a day. ;P
Even if I leveled NIN I would never get to go, we already have 2 Kannagi NINs. lol

[Henihhi]

Lol you people are funny. I hope to god SE doesnt take half this crap spewing on here seriously. Oh and bragging about dual boxing? If you had proper gear you would probably be able to solo. Oh noes dual boxing in abyssea is hard, uber stuff. /sarcasm for people that dont understand it

[Nattack]

i had 75's before abyssea and i never gear swapped to each his own i know i will get flamed but im not gonna drag around 8 different sets of gear i swap staves but not much more than that. and if u say no gear swap you not getting full potential i can dual box better than some of you single

apply yourself, be useful in all areas, and not just one.

[Krystal]

To my fellow posters who support the changes to abyssea to raise the level cap to 70 or 75....WE ARE MAKING AN IMPACT and scaring the posters on this forum who are against us! and the ones against these changes proved it in THIS THREAD! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2190-Something-to-consider....%28to-my-fellow-quot-minority-quot-posters%29)! I made that thread as a lure for those who are against us and want want to keep our voices unknown! the entire thread post was a mind-game i devised to get people who are scared of us the "minority" and they took it hook,line, and sinker! if that thread is deleted it will only farther prove my point! keep posting and keep it up! we'll make a difference!

[Greatguardian]

Except the thread couldn't have been locked... by.... players...

[Ramsos]

To my fellow posters who support the changes to abyssea to raise the level cap to 70 or 75....WE ARE MAKING AN IMPACT and scaring the posters on this forum who are against us! and the ones against these changes proved it in THIS THREAD! (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/2190-Something-to-consider....%28to-my-fellow-quot-minority-quot-posters%29)! I made that thread as a lure for those who are against us and want want to keep our voices unknown! the entire thread post was a mind-game i devised to get people who are scared of us the "minority" and they took it hook,line, and sinker! if that thread is deleted it will only farther prove my point! keep posting and keep it up! we'll make a difference!

What is this, I dont even...

[Krystal]

What is this, I dont even...

rofl!! you took the bait..hook,line,and sinker!:P

[RAIST]

are there really THAT many people that still need to leech xp in Abyssea?

I had a group in Attowha last week. We had one party cleaving to keep TE flowing, one group popping in and out to get the TE's and reforming to farm NM's as needed, and another group for people that wanted to level subs, get merits, whatever. Our LS was basically in there for about 36 hours total. I was active in there for about 12 hours (one job from 61 to 90, one from 85-90, another from 85-88 and lots of skillups on various weapons for all 3 jobs, and took some afk time at #01 to sleep), and only saw what looked like maybe one other group in there on a /sea all. At one point...we were the ONLY 14 people in the entire zone.

However, the heroes zones stay packed. I would <assume> the cleaves and heavy AFK leeching should be done in the lower 6 zones, simply because they are easier targets and they are by design more appropriate for AFK leeching. I've gone into Thienne before and the only people in there were just there for NM's, namely Zone win or farming items to pop the Zone Boss and beyond.

The point I'm getting at...is it would seem the heavy AFK leeching should be done outside of where most the xp'ing is currently being done. Sure, Dominion groups may have leechers, but it's not somewhere you really want to be afk'ing. You want to keep running back to the Sergeant to get your free xp and/or seals every 5 kills. It would seem the groups with mass amounts of AFK leechers <should> be in the older Scars/Vision zones--if they can't fight/cure/buff/open chests...there really isn't anything to do but squat in pre-Heroes areas.

Rather than tinkering with the level requirements for access, what they REALLY need to do is provide an incentive for people to return to the earlier zones and get out of the way of everyone in the Heroes zones so it's more spread out.

Raist

EDIT: and btw, they've started locking some of these extra threads on this topic now...too many duplicate threads popping up with lots of Q Q I guess.

[Ramsos]

rofl!! you took the bait..hook,line,and sinker!:P

I'm still confused, what did I do again? Just sounds like you are very mad.

[Ezikiel]

apply yourself, be useful in all areas, and not just one.

quote when i said i only dual in abyssea find that for me plz show it to all of us. not there is it read the whole post i dual box anywhere also solo anywhere. what i said was swapping gear is not the only way to play and doesnt make u better than anyone else i dont do it i dont like im not carrying all that gear

[Greatguardian]

I'm still confused, what did I do again? Just sounds like you are very mad.

The more we talk to/about him, the more attention he gets, thus that obviously means that he will get his way. You realize that, at some point in time, most FFXI players knew who Starcade was too, right? Yeah, that didn't help him all too much.

[RaenRyong]

Compare to Naturebeckles. Losing argument/ignore all logic => pretend to be a troll!

[Krystal]

I'm still confused, what did I do again? Just sounds like you are very mad.

simply put: you inadvertently supported my cause for encouraging posters who are against abyssea being level 30 capped and needing to be raised and the dyna update to post more threads!

so i should be thanking you..:)

[Icestein]

Krystal, honestly and truly you are destroying these forums. You seem to have the sincere belief that the thread you just made meant something? It got locked, fast, and on top of that it made you even less credible.

You're opinions aren't right, they're not somehow more important than mine, and of course the reverse is also true. You should try to encourage a more open dialogue about the issues and reach a consensus that everyone can agree with, instead of spamming, and that is EXACTLY what you are doing, these forums to artificially make it seem like your opinion is holds more credence than others.

Some of my friends like to help people leech up, they kill mobs in Ule for us, and we are appreciative of that. It saves us gil for subs that we have no intention to play beyond 49. It allows some of us to be more useful in party and linkshell situations by being more diverse, it's by no means a bad thing, regardless of how you try and frame it.

[Dubberrucky]

to say either side is a minority or majority would be a reaching, seeing that it runs on the assumption that everyone in the game posts their opinions in this forum. This thread in particular is only posted on my a very small percentage of the player base mostly made up of the same handful of people posting numerous times. As a side note whenever i did a /search on Sylph when the servers were up there is no clear way to tell that even by zone populations. Most of the time a majority of the people signed on are not even in an abyssea area.

[Yarly]

Krystal, honestly and truly you are destroying these forums.

I lol'd because it's so true.

[Greatguardian]

to say either side is a minority or majority would be a reaching, seeing that it runs on the assumption that everyone in the game posts their opinions in this forum. This thread in particular is only posted on my a very small percentage of the player base mostly made up of the same handful of people posting numerous times. As a side note whenever i did a /search on Sylph when the servers were up there is no clear way to tell that even by zone populations. Most of the time a majority of the people signed on are not even in an abyssea area.

Would be true, if not for the fact that one of the key arguments for raising the Abyssea entry requirement revolves around there being "Not enough players willing to exp outside Abyssea for people to party in normal zones". Either they're a minority, or that statement is false. It cannot be both.

[Alkalinehoe]

quote when i said i only dual in abyssea find that for me plz show it to all of us. not there is it read the whole post i dual box anywhere also solo anywhere. what i said was swapping gear is not the only way to play and doesnt make u better than anyone else i dont do it i dont like im not carrying all that gear
Swapping gear makes you much better players then people who don't.

[Nattack]

quote when i said i only dual in abyssea find that for me plz show it to all of us. not there is it read the whole post i dual box anywhere also solo anywhere. what i said was swapping gear is not the only way to play and doesnt make u better than anyone else i dont do it i dont like im not carrying all that gear

yes it does.

edit: jinx

[Ezikiel]

Swapping gear makes you much better players then people who don't.

heres a challenge you kill something with gear swaps then i kill it without just say when same challenge to nattack you guys try to change this game into rocket surgery when its very simple hit them dont let them hit you

[Icestein]

Swapping gear makes you much better players then people who don't.

I'm honestly surprised that people don't swap gear this late in to the game. There are next to no pieces of gear in the game which are the best for all situations; to maximize your efficiency you need to swap gear. The players that do so deal greater damage, evade more often, hit faster and are therefore superior to those who do not.

Not even that, but the main argument against it (Oh my god I can't target you) is easily avoidable. There's macros for that. <stpc>, if you are not using it then start.


heres a challenge you kill something with gear swaps then i kill it without just say when same challenge to nattack

There's is no question that they would defeat the enemy quicker, with more hp than you.

[Nattack]

As soon as the servers are up.
I want to see it. seriously.

[Krystal]

Would be true, if not for the fact that one of the key arguments for raising the Abyssea entry requirement revolves around there being "Not enough players willing to exp outside Abyssea for people to party in normal zones". Either they're a minority, or that statement is false. It cannot be both.

going by that logic is the same as trying to say:"people say they want to join a football team. Either they are a minority or that statement is false."

it holds little water and has no backing to it to make the statement not worth much.

[RaenRyong]

heres a challenge you kill something with gear swaps then i kill it without just say when same challenge to nattack

if I can kill a Tiny Mandragora at level 5 and you can kill it at level 90, there is no difference between your abilities at level 90 and mine at level 5.

[Greatguardian]

going by that logic is the same as trying to say:"people say they want to join a football team. Either they are a minority or that statement is false."

it holds little water and has no backing to it to make the statement not worth much.

If players who want to level outside Abyssea are not a minority, finding other people to exp with outside Abyssea will not be difficult. Understanding that, however, must be.

[Unaisis]

lmao Watching things going down on these forums is Really turning out to be fun!! hahaha

[Ezikiel]

where a team of dumb players can wipe on a NM i can still survive and win without all that who ra and macroing in gear

[Miera]

Can't we at leastr agree to disagree, because this is getting us nowhere.
Probably will get locked like the last two threads did.

[HFX7686]

going by that logic is the same as trying to say:"people say they want to join a football team. Either they are a minority or that statement is false."

it holds little water and has no backing to it to make the statement not worth much.

My god.

If there aren't enough people to make a party outside of Abyssea because most people are in Abyssea this means that the people who are outside Abyssea trying to make a party are in the minority.

Logic.

[Alkalinehoe]

heres a challenge you kill something with gear swaps then i kill it without just say when same challenge to nattack you guys try to change this game into rocket surgery when its very simple hit them dont let them hit you
I wonder, have you even tried to fight anything more difficult than seal NMs? Sure, you can get away with that. But gear swapping will let me kill extraordinarily faster than you and much more safer (and I won't need to dual box either).

[RAIST]

Icestein, I think that's an important point being overlooked by a lot of the complaints about leeching.

Many of the leechers are LS mates/friends of the leader of either the alliance or individual parties, and thus usually have certain rules that apply to the leechers. Maybe they are more offended that they can't get into a party to leech because the leaders have restrictions?

When we started doing it, you could only leech if you were opening boxes--thus, once we hit 3 leeches, no more were allowed. Everyone had to ask beforehand, and we kept a list of people and had a priority--you had to wait your turn.

Now, we have several people who can cleave for us, and a few RDM's to buff them. So, we'll set a day to tag team the WAR and RDM roles, make a list of attendees, and make a day out of it. The new rule is if you want to leech, you HAVE to bring and USE 100 keys BEFORE you can go AFK. We hold a spot for the first 18 people who sign up for it, and only take new members when they leave (or get dropped). If you go AFK without opening keys, or otherwise making plans to do so when someone finishes their spot...then you get bumped. It's crazy when a new group comes in sometimes. 3 or 4 people racing to see who can burn their 100 keys first...heheh.

Raist

HOLY CRAP. 17 flames in the time it took me to write this post. You people need to chill before this thread gets locked too.

[Ezikiel]

I'm honestly surprised that people don't swap gear this late in to the game. There are next to no pieces of gear in the game which are the best for all situations; to maximize your efficiency you need to swap gear. The players that do so deal greater damage, evade more often, hit faster and are therefore superior to those who do not.

Not even that, but the main argument against it (Oh my god I can't target you) is easily avoidable. There's macros for that. <stpc>, if you are not using it then start.



There's is no question that they would defeat the enemy quicker, with more hp than you.

you obviously never seen me solo

[RaenRyong]

where a team of dumb players can wipe on a NM i can still survive and win without all that who ra and macroing in gear

Which means you're better than them but worse than yourself if you used gear swaps

[Henihhi]

I don't even know where to start- maybe they should have a section for people that don't think gear swaps matter on here?- That way they can all lick the windows together. But anyways back on topic- if someone does their work and skill up/buys scroll/learns spell after they leech to 90 this really doesnt matter what abyssea lvl cap is. It is the people who dont and want stuff handed to them that make this even an issue.

[Krystal]

If players who want to level outside Abyssea are not a minority, finding other people to exp with outside Abyssea will not be difficult. Understanding that, however, must be.

the reason it's difficult is because most players have given up on finding a party outside of abyssea. since a great deal of people i have spoken to said "they would love to party outside of abyssea but there are no parties" see the problem here? it's not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it..it's a matter of they have simply given up hope over time because they can't find any!

[HFX7686]

the reason it's difficult is because most players have given up on finding a party outside of abyssea. since a great deal of people i have spoken to said "they would love to party outside of abyssea but there are no parties" see the problem here? it's not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it..it's a matter of they have simply given up hope over time because they can't find any!

Then party with those people outside of Abyssea.

[Greatguardian]

the reason it's difficult is because most players have given up on finding a party outside of abyssea. since a great deal of people i have spoken to said "they would love to party outside of abyssea but there are no parties" see the problem here? it's not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it..it's a matter of they have simply given up hope over time because they can't find any!

They don't matter, then. Nobody likes a quitter, etc.

Edit: Also, what aduidarnenye said.

[Ezikiel]

if I can kill a Tiny Mandragora at level 5 and you can kill it at level 90, there is no difference between your abilities at level 90 and mine at level 5.

wow you missed the whole point didnt you who was talking about anything at lvl 5 your brain is still lvl 5 of course im talking something tougher. you know what i should solo you on lvl 1brd/drg

[Miera]

HOLY CRAP. 17 flames in the time it took me to write this post. You people need to chill before this thread gets locked too.
It's probably for the best.

[RaenRyong]

Are you saying that out of all of these "great deal" of people, nobody has once thought - even once - to shout in Jeuno to see if somebody wants to start a party? According to you, it's "not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it" and it's simply that they "can't find any" - so if you shout to create one, you should have people flooding in, no?

[Nattack]

a squad of RMT in full AF can take out King Behemoth.

anything is possible in this game, but this is a matter of efficiency.

[Nepharite]

the reason it's difficult is because most players have given up on finding a party outside of abyssea. since a great deal of people i have spoken to said "they would love to party outside of abyssea but there are no parties" see the problem here? it's not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it..it's a matter of they have simply given up hope over time because they can't find any!

Just like pre abyssea? Do you not remember the hours some people would wait for a pt invite?

[HFX7686]

HOLY CRAP. 17 flames in the time it took me to write this post. You people need to chill before this thread gets locked too.

Obviously we need to get the 'Minimize Downtime' thread unlocked and point out that they need to minimize downtime so people will be playing, not arguing on the forum.

[HFX7686]

Are you saying that out of all of these "great deal" of people, nobody has once thought - even once - to shout in Jeuno to see if somebody wants to start a party? According to you, it's "not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it" and it's simply that they "can't find any" - so if you shout to create one, you should have people flooding in, no?

I think I shall try this when the servers are back up (if I remember). Just to see for my own eyes.

I'll probably get laughed out of Port Jeuno.

[viion]

Step 1) Look up the job on FFXIclopedia. Read about the job, and ask questions on forums for any clarification you need.

Step 2) Use FFXIAH's gear set creator to put together what gear you want to use.

Step 3) Gather the gear.

Step 4) Spend an hour making macros.

Step 5) Cap your skills.

Step 6) Use the job, and be better than the sea of full Perle/Aurore/Teal players. Develop reflexes over a week or two of endgame play.

Step 7) The Old Way player who started the job at the same time as you is still in Wajaom Woodlands killing birds.

^ this, its not hard to learn a job in XI, it can be hard to learn how to do an event a specific way, but all there is, is abyssea as far as i know so its not like you need to learn a bunch of different events. Playing your class can be easily learned, following the steps set above.

[Icestein]

you obviously never seen me solo

It's an undeniable fact, if you swap in evasion/Haste hybrid between Ichi casts you'd be evading less attacks, making your soloing more easy.

You're doing a great disservice to the people who made this game, there's a massive mathematical and complicated element to this game that the developers tried to use. There's formula's for everything. The game is so much more complex than you're letting on, and I'm glad. On top of that, the game is so much better for it, I have more goals, I want to attain gear that is best in x situation and also attain the gear that may be better in Y situation. It adds a new paradigm to the game and makes my goals much wider than they'd otherwise be.

[Krystal]

Just like pre abyssea? Do you not remember the hours some people would wait for a pt invite?

i don't know about you but with pre-abyssea depending on the job i would get a party invite roughly 10-30 minuets after putting my flag up.

[RaenRyong]

wow you missed the whole point didnt you who was talking about anything at lvl 5 your brain is still lvl 5 of course im talking something tougher. you know what i should solo on lvl 1brd/drg

You were using as your anti-gear swap example that you are capable of killing some unnamed monsters without gear swaps, just as people with gearswaps are able to kill this same monster. By implication, you are suggesting that gearswapping provides no actual benefit because the end result is the same - victory.

I am using as my anti... ... well, anti-your example that I am capable of killing something without being level 90, just as people at level 90 are able to kill the same monster. I state that this shows that levelling up provides no actual benefit because the end result is the same - victory.

Obviously, my example is thoroughly absurd and is constructed to be ridiculous. I feel it is also ridiculous to claim that not gear swapping - playing as a hybrid - is as effective as gearswapping. Simple logic suggests that specialisation > hybridisation when there is no opportunity cost involved in specialisation.

[HFX7686]

It's an undeniable fact, if you swap in evasion/Haste hybrid between Ichi casts you'd be evading less attacks, making your soloing more easy.

You're doing a great disservice to the people who made this game, there's a massive mathematical and complicated element to this game that the developers tried to use. There's formula's for everything. The game is so much more complex than you're letting on, and I'm glad. On top of that, the game is so much better for it, I have more goals, I want to attain gear that is best in x situation and also attain the gear that may be better in Y situation. It adds a new paradigm to the game and makes my goals much wider than they'd otherwise be.

Seconded for emphasis. This is an excellent post. You are a sensible fellow.

[Nepharite]

i don't know about you but with pre-abyssea depending on the job i would get a party invite roughly 10-30 minuets after putting my flag up.


they key thing you said was "depending on the job"

I never had issues with getting parties or making them.
The majority of the people that are QQ'ing over abyssea do have problems getting pts or making them.

[Icestein]

i don't know about you but with pre-abyssea depending on the job i would get a party invite roughly 10-30 minuets after putting my flag up.

You're either lucky or a liar. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Good luck making a party without a brd, a healer, and if there's more efficient DDs looking then I'm sorry but you'll be seeking for a while.

You're basing this idea that people will be looking for parties so much more if Abyssea leeching dies. They won't. I won't be leveling any new jobs if it reverts back to the old days, because I'd much rather be working on the level 90 content.

[Nepharite]

You're either lucky or a liar. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Good luck making a party without a brd, a healer, and if there's more efficient DDs looking then I'm sorry but you'll be seeking for a while.

You're basing this idea that people will be looking for parties so much more if Abyssea leeching dies. They won't. I won't be leveling any new jobs if it reverts back to the old days, because I'd much rather be working on the level 90 content.

pretty much this, I won't be joining any new low level exp pts, its too easy to solo/lowman/cb
its a lot better than putting up with people who will be gimp and actually impacting your pt a lot more than an abyssea pt.

[Miera]

Are you saying that out of all of these "great deal" of people, nobody has once thought - even once - to shout in Jeuno to see if somebody wants to start a party? According to you, it's "not a matter of people not wanting to party outside of it" and it's simply that they "can't find any" - so if you shout to create one, you should have people flooding in, no?I've seen a guy trying to put together a non-abyssea party through shouting in Jeuno that took 30 minutes to form. He also got cussed and laughed at for wanting to form a Non abyssea party. =

[Ezikiel]

You were using as your anti-gear swap example that you are capable of killing some unnamed monsters without gear swaps, just as people with gearswaps are able to kill this same monster. By implication, you are suggesting that gearswapping provides no actual benefit because the end result is the same - victory.

I am using as my anti... ... well, anti-your example that I am capable of killing something without being level 90, just as people at level 90 are able to kill the same monster. I state that this shows that levelling up provides no actual benefit because the end result is the same - victory.

Obviously, my example is thoroughly absurd and is constructed to be ridiculous. I feel it is also ridiculous to claim that not gear swapping - playing as a hybrid - is as effective as gearswapping. Simple logic suggests that specialisation > hybridisation when there is no opportunity cost involved in specialisation.

Just admit you jumped in on a conversation and said something dumb. i said i would kill what ever they kill im sure they weren't going after anything level 5 dummy if you werent sure if they were ask them or red the whole post before you open your mouth and prove your ignorance again

[Ryland]

I agree, they should lower the entry level for abyssea to 1 instead of 30. Level 30 is too hard to get for new players, so we should just let them join in abyssea at level 1. Level 1 would be so great. I think you all are so smart for agreeing with the fact that the entrance level should be 1. Level 1. Thanks.

oops triple post in another thread

[RaenRyong]

I will be sure to red next time.

[Nepharite]

Just admit you jumped in on a conversation and said something dumb. i said i would kill what ever they kill im sure they weren't going after anything level 5 dummy if you werent sure if they were ask them or red the whole post before you open your mouth and prove your ignorance again

Its obvious that you can't comprehend what RaenRyong is talking about. Its also obvious that you don't understand game mechanics by not using macros.

[Krystal]

You're either lucky or a liar. I'm leaning towards the latter.

Good luck making a party without a brd, a healer, and if there's more efficient DDs looking then I'm sorry but you'll be seeking for a while.

You're basing this idea that people will be looking for parties so much more if Abyssea leeching dies. They won't. I won't be leveling any new jobs if it reverts back to the old days, because I'd much rather be working on the level 90 content.

lucky or a liar eh? heh....gotta love all the attacks on my creditability...they make my reasoning for posts even more worthwhile....the fact people are now attacking my creditability proves i just scared the crap out of them with my post and they are ticked i lured them in so easily....brains over brawn...gotta love it! <3 so keep attacking my creditability...your just enforcing my point and encouraging more to speak their mind who are against abyssea's current cap and dyna.^^

[Dubberrucky]

My god.

If there aren't enough people to make a party outside of Abyssea because most people are in Abyssea this means that the people who are outside Abyssea trying to make a party are in the minority.

Logic.

If it were that simple I wouldn't hear over and over "You guys want to party?" "Nevermind there are no <insert x job here>"

[Nepharite]

lucky or a liar eh? heh....gotta love all the attacks on my creditability...they make my reasoning for posts even more worthwhile....the fact people are now attacking my creditability proves i just scared the crap out of them with my post and they are ticked i lured them in so easily....brains over brawn...gotta love it! <3 so keep attacking my creditability...your just enforcing my point and encouraging more to speak their mind who are against abyssea's current cap and dyna.^^

I like how full of yourself you are.

[Icestein]

Just admit you jumped in on a conversation and said something dumb. i said i would kill what ever they kill im sure they weren't going after anything level 5 dummy if you werent sure if they were ask them or red the whole post before you open your mouth and prove your ignorance again

He used hypothetical reasoning, but clearly you're not well up on your critical thinking skills. He used this hypothetical scenario to draw attention to the fact that gear, which is interchangeable in this scenario with the natural stat bonuses you gain through leveling, improves the rate at which you kill something. It's an extreme example, but it can be scaled down to two level 90s, one naked except weapons and one with a variety of gear for each situation. If these two are identical in every way except gear than I don't see how you can claim that both would be equal, one would have higher stats and therefore be hitting harder, better, faster and stronger.

Our work is never over.

[Ezikiel]

Its obvious that you can't comprehend what RaenRyong is talking about. Its also obvious that you don't understand game mechanics by not using macros.

when did i say i dont use macros? i just dont macro gear and still win you mey think that makes it harder but i dont really care i was never a gear person more so just like to play the gme to see what i can do i dont invest much into ffxi and if game were up id be doing these things but since it not im here with all you wonderful people

[HFX7686]

lucky or a liar eh? heh....gotta love all the attacks on my creditability...they make my reasoning for posts even more worthwhile....the fact people are now attacking my creditability proves i just scared the crap out of them with my post and they are ticked i lured them in so easily....brains over brawn...gotta love it! <3 so keep attacking my creditability...your just enforcing my point and encouraging more to speak their mind who are against abyssea's current cap and dyna.^^

Well, you're right. I have had the crap scared out of me with your posts because I'm worried that you're so loud and vocal that the developers might wrongly believe that most people agree with you and your ideas are good, when both are not true.

[Ezikiel]

He used hypothetical reasoning, but clearly you're not well up on your critical thinking skills. He used this hypothetical scenario to draw attention to the fact that gear, which is interchangeable in this scenario with the natural stat bonuses you gain through leveling, improves the rate at which you kill something. It's an extreme example, but it can be scaled down to two level 90s, one naked except weapons and one with a variety of gear for each situation. If these two are identical in every way except gear than I don't see how you can claim that both would be equal, one would have higher stats and therefore be hitting harder, better, faster and stronger.

Our work is never over.

hypothetical he was talking about killing something level 5 how in the world does that pertain to anything needing to be soloed? i see his post made you a little less smart

[HFX7686]

when did i say i dont use macros? i just dont macro gear and still win you mey think that makes it harder but i dont really care i was never a gear person more so just like to play the gme to see what i can do i dont invest much into ffxi and if game were up id be doing these things but since it not im here with all you wonderful people

Why on earth wouldn't you macro gear swaps? You'd be much more efficient if you used gear swaps. It seems kind of silly to not macro gear swaps in a game that basically encourages gear swapping because of all the side-grades and situational gear.

[Nepharite]

when did i say i dont use macros? i just dont macro gear and still win you mey think that makes it harder but i dont really care i was never a gear person more so just like to play the gme to see what i can do i dont invest much into ffxi and if game were up id be doing these things but since it not im here with all you wonderful people

gear macros were implied... you don't need to understand much about the game to hit a /ja macro....

But knowing that certain gear increases the capabilities of certain actions, while hindering others does show some intellect.

[RaenRyong]

lucky or a liar eh? heh....gotta love all the attacks on my creditability...they make my reasoning for posts even more worthwhile....the fact people are now attacking my creditability proves i just scared the crap out of them with my post and they are ticked i lured them in so easily....brains over brawn...gotta love it! <3 so keep attacking my creditability...your just enforcing my point and encouraging more to speak their mind who are against abyssea's current cap and dyna.^^

Yeah, so far your extremely cunning manipulations have caused a grand total of ... how many people to speak out?

[Krystal]

Well, you're right. I have had the crap scared out of me with your posts because I'm worried that you're so loud and vocal that the developers might believe that most people agree with you and your ideas are good.

Fixed. hehe

[Ezikiel]

again i will dumb it down for those who think gear swapping is "the bees knees" you go and kill something with all of your gear swapping something high level lets not pick on level 5's did we all see that we arent killing level 5 things ok then i will kill the same thing that you did again this is something waaaay higher than a level 5.did we read all of that. i respect your playstyle of swapping gear for every macro u have me personally i dont do it as much as you but i do with staves sometimes when i feel like it and for other functions but to me it is not a "must"

[RaenRyong]

Man, she's playing us so well.

EDIT: And since you can't get it, explicitly what I'm saying without any of the subtleties which people have mentioned is

you're implying as long as two people can kill a specific thing, the "how" is irrelevant

[HFX7686]

Fixed. hehe

Please don't misquote me or I'll report you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!11111

[Krystal]

Yeah, so far your extremely cunning manipulations have caused a grand total of ... how many people to speak out?

don't happen over night. unlike most..i think ahead....gonna make another thread sooner or later when people are awake on this side of the world...XD

[Icestein]

hypothetical he was talking about killing something level 5 how in the world does that pertain to anything needing to be soloed? i see his post made you a little less smart

IT WAS A HYPOTHETICAL SCENARIO. He was using your rhetoric to show a flaw in your own reasoning, by comparing it to a similar, albeit exaggerated, scenario.

You can also solo a level 5 mob, but that's just me being pedantic.

[Nepharite]

I would really like to know how you know that you are with the majority?

The majority don't involve themselves with stupid bs like this.
Did you poll everyone that plays ffxi? Are you telepathic? or did you just eyeball it?

[Unaisis]

the most SE will say from the result of this thread is a

"there are currently no plans on raising the level requirement"

means no~

[Nepharite]

again i will dumb it down for those who think gear swapping is "the bees knees" you go and kill something with all of your gear swapping something high level lets not pick on level 5's did we all see that we arent killing level 5 things ok then i will kill the same thing that you did again this is something waaaay higher than a level 5.did we read all of that. i respect your playstyle of swapping gear for every macro u have me personally i dont do it as much as you but i do with staves sometimes when i feel like it and for other functions but to me it is not a "must"

But what about the things you can't kill solo unless you do use gear macros?

[Ezikiel]

Yeah, so far your extremely cunning manipulations have caused a grand total of ... how many people to speak out?

this one i like

[HFX7686]

again i will dumb it down for those who think gear swapping is "the bees knees" you go and kill something with all of your gear swapping something high level lets not pick on level 5's did we all see that we arent killing level 5 things ok then i will kill the same thing that you did again this is something waaaay higher than a level 5.did we read all of that. i respect your playstyle of swapping gear for every macro u have me personally i dont do it as much as you but i do with staves sometimes when i feel like it and for other functions but to me it is not a "must"

I would really, really love to reply to you but it's very difficult to read your post due to a severe lack of punctuation.

I will try though.

You aren't required to swap gear if you don't want to, but please don't advocate it as a good style of game play. Not swapping gear is not efficient. Everything you do will be slower and longer. Just stop saying it's a good way to play then we won't care anymore.

[Ezikiel]

But what about the things you can't kill solo unless you do use gear macros?

havent come into things i cant kill really and i can dual box box it if i cant solo it

[Silentkill]

with the last 9 lvls to 99 that would be over 432,000 xp and i have no desire to grind that like the "good ole days" been there done that, get my maxed on my lvl so i can do more interesting things.

[Nepharite]

havent come into things i cant kill really and i can dual box box it if i cant solo it

Well I guess if you don't macro gear and are not a gear person, you aren't fighting anything beyond mediocre difficulty.

But your style of play is far from efficient or good. Its what some would call just getting by.

[Ezikiel]

I would really, really love to reply to you but it's very difficult to read your post due to a severe lack of punctuation.

I will try though.

You aren't required to swap gear if you don't want to, but please don't advocate it as a good style of game play. Not swapping gear is not efficient. Everything you do will be slower and longer. Just stop saying it's a good way to play then we won't care anymore.

Just like all opinion based things its good for me because i dont carry alot of gear and never really feel like building eccentric macros for said gear and again i still win what works for me may not work for you which i understand this game is to me a game if i cant do it myself i put up the bat signal to my LS they are never mad that i dont swap gear. oh and i put as much effort into punctuation as i do gear swapping :P

[Nattack]

hypothetical he was talking about killing something level 5 how in the world does that pertain to anything needing to be soloed? i see his post made you a little less smart
(屮ﾟ皿ﾟ)屮 ======= ┻━━┻ ( ゜Д゜)

[Krystal]

Please don't misquote me or I'll report you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!11111

*dies laughing*

[HFX7686]

Just like all opinion based things its good for me because i dont carry alot of gear and never really feel like building eccentric macros for said gear and again i still win what works for me may not work for you which i understand this game is to me a game if i cant do it myself i put up the bat signal to my LS they are never mad that i dont swap gear. oh and i put as much effort into punctuation as i do gear swapping :P

Gear swapping being more efficient is not an opinion.

Choosing not to gear swap because you just don't want to is okay, but please don't try to make everything around this topic an opinion.

[Henihhi]

But the difference is someone that actually understands mechanics and uses gear swaps will A> kill faster than you B> be more efficient than you, therefore people that know how to gear and swap >you

[Ryland]

havent come into things i cant kill really and i can dual box box it if i cant solo it

Dual boxing is against the ToS because it requires the use of 3rd party tools which are bad. People like you are why there are so many bad players at 90, because you're so busy playing two characters that you can't take the time to swap gear like a good player.

[Nepharite]

Dual boxing is against the ToS because it requires the use of 3rd party tools which are bad. People like you are why there are so many bad players at 90, because you're so busy playing two characters that you can't take the time to swap gear like a good player.

dual boxing can also refer to using a pc and a console, 2 consoles, or 2 pcs.

Seriously who cares?

[Ezikiel]

Dual boxing is against the ToS because it requires the use of 3rd party tools which are bad. People like you are why there are so many bad players at 90, because you're so busy playing two characters that you can't take the time to swap gear like a good player.

how is having 2 computers next to each other against ToS oh wait you assumed i was playing on one PC please just ask me if you dont know ive actually done up to 3 char at once

[Alkalinehoe]

Just like all opinion based things its good for me because i dont carry alot of gear and never really feel like building eccentric macros for said gear and again i still win what works for me may not work for you which i understand this game is to me a game if i cant do it myself i put up the bat signal to my LS they are never mad that i dont swap gear. oh and i put as much effort into punctuation as i do gear swapping :P
Again, is there anything noteworthy you've actually fought? Seal NMs don't count...

[Krystal]

Dual boxing is against the ToS because it requires the use of 3rd party tools which are bad. People like you are why there are so many bad players at 90, because you're so busy playing two characters that you can't take the time to swap gear like a good player.

incorrect on the meaning there. i myself through that meant using a 3rd party program for awhile when actully it means using a pc while on Xbox360 or vis versa.

[Nepharite]

incorrect on the meaning there. i myself through that meant using a 3rd party program for awhile when actully it means using a pc while on Xbox360 or vis versa.

It could mean either or.
Legit or not, you can't prove what he's using.

[Ryland]

how is having 2 computers next to each other against ToS oh wait you assumed i was playing on one PC please just ask me if you dont know ive actually done up to 3 char at once

I just assumed due to the poor grammar in your posts that you could only afford one computer, thus meaning you played two characters on one computer. Also, using three characters at once in abyssea means you're keeping people who are playing a sole character from their much needed exp they are leeching in abyssea. In abyssea. Lower the limit to level 1.

[Hyperon]

I do hope SE reads all post related to abyssea and makes a statement and change it or leave it. I believe that its not about adhering to the old ways. Its really lame that there are newer players or players with just 1-3 jobs at cap and they have a lot of others to lvl to sub and the search is riddled with players who would rather wait 8 hours on a chance to key abyssea more so than just leveling up normally. Giving the option to be rewarded to do nothing but marco in 1 command and move from time to time shouldn't be rewarded in a game or even in one. Which thats all key ppl do. Also there are players that have come back to FFXI at 75 cap and only had 1-2 jobs at 75 and left because they didn't want to devote their lives to the game. Now that its easier to level, its lame that you can't because there are a tank, healer, and whatever else at your pre-aby lvl but only want to be lazy pricks that in the /seacom states they want to be in aby only. Also to those who do in Sylph will wait for hours. I saw 5 people one day all state they only want aby with there job at below 60 looking to key. They waited for 8 hours or more because I logged out and did other stuff but I did ask them, before I left, if they even got an invite that day. 4 of them actually did wait 8 hours, the other got and invite but then got D2'd when they got there. He didnt tell me why. Also best response to the reason why one of the 5 waited for 8 hours was... "idk why, just did."

Now with the exp boost, I think, its even with exp earned per hour if this was the first two abyssea zones as if you were in old worlds. If there isn't the level cap increase just for abyssea enterance, there should at least be a penalty for people under a certain level for dominion ops. Like if your below lvl 65, you can't get dominion ops. I say thats balanced.

[Krystal]

It could mean either or.
Legit or not, you can't prove what he's using.

good point...>.<

[Ryland]

incorrect on the meaning there. i myself through that meant using a 3rd party program for awhile when actully it means using a pc while on Xbox360 or vis versa.

Don't quote me or I'll ignore you.

[Ezikiel]

I just assumed due to the poor grammar in your posts that you could only afford one computer, thus meaning you played two characters on one computer. Also, using three characters at once in abyssea means you're keeping people who are playing a sole character from their much needed exp they are leeching in abyssea. In abyssea. Lower the limit to level 1.

i the quote that you quoted me on highlight where i mentioned abyssea attemtped to spell abyssea or where u can rearrange letters to even make abyssea been going back and forth solong i forgot what this original post is even about but who cares its a game i have fun my way and you have fun your way

[Nepharite]

I think everything that can be said has been said.
Most likely anything said from now own will be repeated garbage or something completely frivolous.

including what I just said or well pretty much anything past page 1.

[Krystal]

I do hope SE reads all post related to abyssea and makes a statement and change it or leave it. I believe that its not about adhering to the old ways. Its really lame that there are newer players or players with just 1-3 jobs at cap and they have a lot of others to lvl to sub and the search is riddled with players who would rather wait 8 hours on a chance to key abyssea more so than just leveling up normally. Giving the option to be rewarded to do nothing but marco in 1 command and move from time to time shouldn't be rewarded in a game or even in one. Which thats all key ppl do. Also there are players that have come back to FFXI at 75 cap and only had 1-2 jobs at 75 and left because they didn't want to devote their lives to the game. Now that its easier to level, its lame that you can't because there are a tank, healer, and whatever else at your pre-aby lvl but only want to be lazy pricks that in the /seacom states they want to be in aby only. Also to those who do in Sylph will wait for hours. I saw 5 people one day all state they only want aby with there job at below 60 looking to key. They waited for 8 hours or more because I logged out and did other stuff but I did ask them, before I left, if they even got an invite that day. 4 of them actually did wait 8 hours, the other got and invite but then got D2'd when they got there. He didnt tell me why. Also best response to the reason why one of the 5 waited for 8 hours was... "idk why, just did."

Now with the exp boost, I think, its even with exp earned per hour if this was the first two abyssea zones as if you were in old worlds. If there isn't the level cap increase just for abyssea enterance, there should at least be a penalty for people under a certain level for dominion ops. Like if your below lvl 65, you can't get dominion ops. I say thats balanced.

oh wow...best debating idea i heard! sounds like a winner to me! instead of raising the cap just incur a heavy exp penalty on those under 70 like lets say a 85% exp penalty...that works. they still get exp..but not nearly as much if they were above 70... so we can either do that or just do a level cap increase...see i can bend a little..:)

[Icestein]

i the quote that you quoted me on highlight where i mentioned abyssea attemtped to spell abyssea or where u can rearrange letters to even make abyssea been going back and forth solong i forgot what this original post is even about but who cares its a game i have fun my way and you have fun your way

...but then what are you soloing? Pre-75 cap mobs? There's little wonder you don't have a hard time when soloing things.

[Unaisis]

Haste Caps at 25%

off topic?

i wouldnt be the first in this thread

[Greatguardian]

oh wow...best debating idea i heard! sounds like a winner to me! instead of raising the cap just incur a heavy exp penalty on those under 70 like lets say a 85% exp penalty...that works. they still get exp..but not nearly as much if they were above 70... so we can either do that or just do a level cap increase...see i can bend a little..:)

There already is an exp penalty. I don't really know why people seem to forget that.

[Nepharite]

oh wow...best debating idea i heard! sounds like a winner to me! instead of raising the cap just incur a heavy exp penalty on those under 70 like lets say a 85% exp penalty...that works. they still get exp..but not nearly as much if they were above 70... so we can either do that or just do a level cap increase...see i can bend a little..:)

I'm guessing you haven't done an abyssea burn before.

You already start out with a exp penalty at that low of a level.

[Ezikiel]

...but then what are you soloing? Pre-75 cap mobs? There's little wonder you don't have a hard time when soloing things.

theres still high level mobs outside abyssea sky gods and all and they aint pushovers unless you are gonna sya due to your gear swaps you soloed kirin

[Krystal]

There already is an exp penalty. I don't really know why people seem to forget that.

not nearly high enough of one. if your below a certain level you still get old school exp..and to some leachers"that fine and dandy" when they get that amount of exp at the rate people get it in those areas. incurring a higher exp penalty with make them think twice before going in an leaching instead of seeking for a normal party.

[Nepharite]

not nearly high enough of one. if your below a certain level you still get old school exp..and to some leachers"that fine and dandy" when they get that amount of exp at the rate people get it in those areas. incurring a higher exp penalty with make them think twice before going in an leaching instead of seeking for a normal party.

If your lvl30 and just enter, you start out with 0exp per kill...

[Greatguardian]

not nearly high enough of one. if your below a certain level you still get old school exp..and to some leachers"that fine and dandy" when they get that amount of exp at the rate people get it in those areas. incurring a higher exp penalty with make them think twice before going in an leaching instead of seeking for a normal party.

A 66% Exp penalty (30 / 90) isn't high enough? Ok.

[Krystal]

I'm guessing you haven't done an abyssea burn before.

You already start out with a exp penalty at that low of a level.

see my reply to Greatguardian

[Ryland]

oh wow...best debating idea i heard! sounds like a winner to me! instead of raising the cap just incur a heavy exp penalty on those under 70 like lets say a 85% exp penalty...that works. they still get exp..but not nearly as much if they were above 70... so we can either do that or just do a level cap increase...see i can bend a little..:)

Yeah let's pull arbitrary numbers out of our ass and throw them around as great ideas! Yeah! How about we ban 93% of the players who don't use gear swaps, and leave the last 7% for lulz! Yeah!

[Ezikiel]

oh and leave the level cap where it is 30 is fine

[RaenRyong]

Krystal, who is your character and how many jobs do you have levelled? I'm genuinely curious at this point.

[Nepharite]

Its so easy to solo/low man exp, why are people so adamant about getting full pts together again?

[RAIST]

Personally, I've never understood why people just sit around Jueno or Whitegate with a flag up all day, then complain about not being able to get a party.

If your motivation is to get XP...why are you sitting on your duff, waiting for someone to do the work for you?

Either A) make your own party, or B) um... go kill stuff will your flag is up.

I managed to solo entire levels while lfp many times over. I hardly even partied at all on BRD and WHM from 45 to 51--I did FOV and campaign most the way (gotta love having /BST to exploit). Then I soloed or low-manned with LS mates with WHM from 51 to 75, simply because I didn't want to sit around waiting for a full group to form up.

Really people, don't gripe about your wasted time sitting around waiting for a party. You can easily solo upwards of 1/8 your current level per hour now at any given point in time with FOV now. In sky, at 80+, I was getting upwards of 3k a page. That's over 3k for 11 mobs. Easy xp. If you don't want to do that, you can do Bastion. My personal Best on DRK on it's way to 85 was 13k in one wave. That's 13k in under 5 minutes.

Seriously, if you want experience points, get off your butts and just DO EET!!!

Raist

[Icestein]

If your lvl30 and just enter, you start out with 0exp per kill...

It's not low enough! It should be -200exp, then people would think twice about leeching instead of getting an outside party!!

I'm joking, just in case the Krystal-esques didn't realise that.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something) Hell for all I know, my stubbornness on this topic could be from me not playing for a year. (just started about a week ago)

[Krystal]

A 66% Exp penalty (30 / 90) isn't high enough? Ok.

no.....it's not. friend of mine on alex leached at 35 and told me she was getting 250 exp a kill after some time. while this seems small take in account the rate of kills...that's enough for most lazy asses to want to leach exp. drop that to below 100exp per kill and they will think twice.

[rog]

Yeah let's pull arbitrary numbers out of our ass and throw them around as great ideas! Yeah! How about we ban 93% of the players who don't use gear swaps, and leave the last 7% for lulz! Yeah!
I wouldn't have a problem with that.

[Ryland]

oh and cleave the level cap down to 1 is fine

I agree completely.

[Krystal]

It's not low enough! It should be -200exp, then people would think twice about leeching instead of getting an outside party!!

I'm joking, just in case the Krystal-esques didn't realise that.

so funny i forgot to laugh......>.>; /burntrollpost

[Nepharite]

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something)

Bad players will be bad players no matter how they level. They want to just get by.
Good players always strive to improve themselves. They want to be good.

[Greatguardian]

Krystal, who is your character and how many jobs do you have levelled? I'm genuinely curious at this point.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Alexander/Pikachuninetail

Confirmed WHM and SCH 90 at the least.

[Nepharite]

no.....it's not. friend of mine on alex leached at 35 and told me she was getting 250 exp a kill after some time. while this seems small take in account the rate of kills...that's enough for most lazy asses to want to leach exp. drop that to below 100exp per kill and they will think twice.

You do start with a huge exp penalty, but if your pt is good enough, you can dig yourself out of the exp penalty and reach the normal cap on exp.

[Skybrit]

Its interesting to read the new player thread and see the issues that they have with Abyss.

[Ezikiel]

I agree completely.

i actually did put in another post to place u in abyssea as a new char in a party with 10 stones and 120 min so u changing my post is a lil retatred lol but like i said have fun your way

[Krystal]

Yeah let's pull arbitrary numbers out of our ass and throw them around as great ideas! Yeah! How about we ban 93% of the players who don't use gear swaps, and leave the last 7% for lulz! Yeah!

Sarcasm Fail

[Nepharite]

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Alexander/Pikachuninetail

Confirmed WHM and SCH 90 at the least.

son of a biscuit eater, on my server nonetheless

[fxp7]

Why do people still care about leeching? At this point, full alliances and parties only proved to be LESS efficient than small groups. Two people can crush the hell out of some Dominion OPs and allow friends to leech. Nothing wrong about it, since these same friends will eventually return the favor.

If leeching and key are an issue, just stop joining pickup Abyssea groups? It's way more pleasant, productive and easy to manage with LS friends.

Some will say that new players will not learn the job. I don't care about new players. Most of the time I do stuff solo or with friends anyway. Increasing the min level would just force me to play with people I don't care about, turning the game less fun.

[Ryland]

i actually did put in another post to place u in abyssea as a new char in a party with 10 stones and 120 min so u changing my post is a lil retatred lol but like i said have fun your way

Wait, am I a new char as in level 1, or level 30? Either way I'm leeching exp so much faster than I'd be gaining any in an old school party, so I'm probably getting a chub in said party.

[Unaisis]

i got my whm from 40-90 in a couple of days~

[Icestein]

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something)

This argument isn't yours, it's actually one of the main ones proposed by the people wishing to increase the level cap.

I'm not going to go into great detail about why I think it's a dismissible argument, I doubt that you'll be swayed either way, but I'll say this. Jobs in FFXI aren't hard, they can easily be picked up in the course of skilling up, or even just leveling a prior job. It's not leeching that breeds bad players, it is ignorance, such as the ignorance displayed by Ezikiel. You will find that there is always a percentage of players who are inferior and unswayed by logical arguments. Most people who engage in leeching already fit one of two categories, those who understand the game mechanics and those who blatantly ignore them. I'd hazard a guess that 90% of the people leeching have leveled via the old method, and have already taken on one of these two roles prior to abyssea.

If this argument was proposed 9 years ago, when the game was new, I could easily see myself being persuaded by some of these arguments, but now there's so few new players that it doesn't make an iota of difference. All Square have done is remove the tedium from leveling a job.

[RaenRyong]

to get this back on track some..... my argument is based off the thinking that getting to max level from leeching breeds bad players, people who do not understand the job well, prove me wrong on this and I will be glad to drop my argument, and even try this "leeching" myself. (videos, pics, something) Hell for all I know, my stubbornness on this topic could be from me not playing for a year. (just started about a week ago)

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

My NIN I've had longer but has a nigh perfect TP set (no Usukane Feet) and is fairly strong all-round - biggest weakness being my 2nd Katana (though I tend to dagger/katana anyway until Hi since Evis >>> Jin and Twilight Knife has very strong DoT in areas where accuracy is not a consideration). Again you can ask me anything you want!

[Ezikiel]

Wait, am I a new char as in level 1, or level 30? Either way I'm leeching exp so much faster than I'd be gaining any in an old school party, so I'm probably getting a chub in said party.

i truly hink u should be allowed in at lvl 1 skip the BS

[Krystal]

son of a biscuit eater, on my server nonetheless

lol...that character is...i wonder if i should reactivate one of my old content IDs with jobs capped at 75.....lmao...no way..not worth it. proving that would be like beating a dead dog with a stick. then again...i wonder if they are still on there...been so bloody long since i used them i might not even be able to...XD

[Icestein]

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey


It doesn't sound arrogant, it tends to be the case for most players, I've found.

[Henihhi]

See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.

[NrvnqsrKhaos]

The worst, and yet most interesting thing about this topic is that while it has gone off-topic, has gotten nowhere since the first few pages, and is filled with circular arguments, it would be even worse if it were closed, as it would give people "proof" that there's some big conspiracy from THE MAN to keep them from spreading their ideas.

Sociologically fascinating. Carry on.

[Krystal]

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

[Nepharite]

See Raen that is the difference between you and most abyssea lvled blus i have run into- you have your spells, learned your job, and play it like a pro. If there were more like you out there all this abyssea leeching crap would be a non-issue.

Did you actually meet blus pre abyssea? 90% of the were horrible.

[HFX7686]

The worst, and yet most interesting thing about this topic is that while it has gone off-topic, has gotten nowhere since the first few pages, and is filled with circular arguments, it would be even worse if it were closed, as it would give people "proof" that there's some big conspiracy from THE MAN to keep them from spreading their ideas.

Sociologically fascinating. Carry on.

The man would probably just have a headache.

[Greatguardian]

The man would probably just have a headache.

More like the man already does.

[Kailea_Nagisa]

This is going to sound really arrogant but hey

I was a 42BLU less than a month ago. Now I have all of my relevant spells (and only lacking 7 completionist ones overall), 2/5 AF3+2 while only lacking a small number of items to make that 4/5 AF3+2, an Almace, and you can ask me anything you want about BLU. I regularly solo aoe burn which is not something I see many BLUs doing at all, and can easily kill 15+ mobs entirely solo without temp items.

My NIN I've had longer but has a nigh perfect TP set (no Usukane Feet) and is fairly strong all-round - biggest weakness being my 2nd Katana (though I tend to dagger/katana anyway until Hi since Evis >>> Jin and Twilight Knife has very strong DoT in areas where accuracy is not a consideration). Again you can ask me anything you want!

I have to say that is impressive...... hell looks like I have some more research time on my hands, asking my LS mates and other people as well, maybe it is I who am out of the times with the game -.-

[Nepharite]

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

I knew someone that did that. Felt like they HAD to have every spell.
But they were still in the top 5% of worst blus ever.

[HFX7686]

More like the man already does.

Personally, all I can image is a darkened room with a bunch of GMs sitting around at desks, shaking the heads (or perhaps beating them against the desk) all wishing that the game could be back online to get all these crazies off the forums.

[Greatguardian]

Personally, all I can image is a darkened room with a bunch of GMs sitting around at desks, shaking the heads (or perhaps beating them against the desk) all wishing that the game could be back online to get all these crazies off the forums.

That's basically every customer service department in a nutshell.

[RaenRyong]

spend hours farming ALL your blu spells up to your current level then we'll talk "knowing the job" i don't doubt you can handle yourself but if you didn't farm all your blu spells then you're gimped. my blue may be level 51 atm but i have ALL spells up to my current level learned. i don't miss a single one..didn't on my last character and won't on this one:)

Find me a use for Body Slam, Spinal Cleave, Tail Slap, Hysteric Barrage, Sandspray and Asuran Claws and I'll accelerate my schedule. I'm also missing Sub-Zero Smash which could actually have some use so I should get that one.

Right now, my current priority as far as BLU is concerned is to finish my 85Almace - nothing I can do can compare with the difference in damage that will provide. After that I'll be going and finishing off my spell list, but I think you can hardly call me gimped for missing 7 spells, 6 of which are dubious at 90 cap.

[Greatguardian]

Find me a use for Body Slam, Spinal Cleave, Tail Slap, Hysteric Barrage, Sandspray and Asuran Claws and I'll accelerate my schedule. I'm also missing Sub-Zero Smash which could actually have some use so I should get that one.

Right now, my current priority as far as BLU is concerned is to finish my 85Almace - nothing I can do can compare with the difference in damage that will provide. After that I'll be going and finishing off my spell list, but I think you can hardly call me gimped for missing 7 spells, 6 of which are dubious at 90 cap.

Why would you not want to slap things with your tail?

[RaenRyong]

Fake cat etc :( no tail to slap with!

Tail Slap may have some use after I get CdC in a more melee-orientated build because you can form the Store TP trait with it, but until then I'm not so bothered.

[Sprieth]

I have one main question. Who do level 90 leechers hurt?

It seems they mainly hurt pick up parties and groups that try to throw together random gear/NM parties. It shouldn't hurt LS recruitment since a good LS will usually have an application process and if you see someone with a 90 job, uncapped skills, misplaced merits, and restricted access you'll know where they came from. If they somehow make it past that then there's usually the trial period where you'll actually see how good they play. If someone leeches to 90 then just has fun soloing missions/quests/NMs/whatever and doesn't bother anyone else then why stop them?

I understand the argument that a leech is preventing vanilla type parties, but I think a majority of leechers are people who have many jobs and capped merits so they need another 75 to dump merits into. I do get annoyed when I see naked low levels just sitting around the page NPC while myself (also a low level) run around checking and opening chests), I just have to assume they're LS or friends of the party leader and were allowed to do that. Me being annoyed is no reason to raise the level cap. Honestly I think abyssea should reveal those people who really enjoy normal parties. Which should mean that when you find a full party of people who WANT to party the normal way, it should be an amazingly fun party to be in. But if you were to take abyssea away you might encounter that frustrating party that most are familiar with more often.

I recently started leveling my NIN again. Whenever I seek for party I seek for any type that will get me xp (level sync and abyssea). I got into a normal party a few days before the servers went down (a truly normal party also, no PL, and proper job set up (which i think is even more rare)) I got less xp/hour than soloing and died at least 5 times. (My skills are capped on NIN and have yet to take it to an abyssea party). Over the course of 3-4 hours, I started with 1k tnl and ended 1 level higher with 1k tnl. All deaths were not my parties fault. Some deaths were my fault, some were water elemental aggro (we were in crawler's nest), some were just getting beat down by exoray. It is discouraging, but I will continue to accept whatever type party I get invited to. But it also illustrates why people prefer abyssea leeching.

[Komori]

If you want a normal party, just shout in Port Jeuno. I've made parties above 30+ by just shouting and could get six members in less than 10 minutes. Don't make shit harder then it needs to be. If "not going into abyssea" makes you all such great players, you should have no problem managing only six people instead of eighteen and doing maybe three mobs per 10 minutes intead. If not, then you need to look up, YOUR jobs.

[Mrbeansman]

not nearly high enough of one. if your below a certain level you still get old school exp..and to some leachers"that fine and dandy" when they get that amount of exp at the rate people get it in those areas. incurring a higher exp penalty with make them think twice before going in an leaching instead of seeking for a normal party.

Tell me my dear minority is the concept of not doing something if you don't like it really that hard to grasp.

[Krystal]

Tell me my dear minority is the concept of not doing something if you don't like it really that hard to grasp.

is the concept of NOT being a lazy player beyond your grasp?

[Mrbeansman]

is the concept of NOT being a lazy player beyond your grasp?

How hard is it to ignore something that doesn't inconvenience you in any unpreventable way.