so let me get this straight

[xbobx]

of what i heard deactivating puppet no longer loses hate, i guess was a bug for 5 years.
they nerf burts which was what 6 months.

so they "fixed" the bugs that gave us an edge and some being very old.

but again, ignored the bugs that actually need to be fixed because they really hurt our job.

is that what those fucking asshole developers did? I would be fine with the nerfs if they actually fixed the real stuff.

are these guys really this stupid?

[Mizuharu]

Wait, what? They REMOVED that? Are you sure your automaton didn't just hit it with a melee attack? I know nukes and ranged attacks wouldn't get hate... If they removed that...

[Dfoley]

It looks like its in abyssea only as part of the VNM fix. If not please post:
which pet (ranged or blm)
which zone
which mob

Current testing shows its fine in xarcabard with blm and rng so it might be just abyssea.

[Telford]

Testing in Sauromugue Champaign with sharpshot and I'm getting aggro after one ranged attack and deactivate (no melee hits). Tried this on several different mobs (weapons, skinks, tabar beak).

Also tried with soulsoother/stormwaker after it casts an enfeeble, I would get aggro if I deactivate without retrieving, but if I deploy>cast enfeeble>retrieve>deactivate I get no aggro.

Testing in xarcabard with spiritreaver, no agro if retrieved first after nuking. Tested sharpshot on demons still got aggro but lost links, tested flashbulb (no ranged or melee attacks) still got hate.

Getting resting aggro and using ventriloquy > deactivate still deaggros mobs.


I hope they fix this (although they won't) being able to shed aggro was one of the perks of being a pup.

[Lushipur]

i tryed dad in xarca and noo hate but i have a retrieve command too.
so if the automaton is still engaged when it gets hate, the master get a little hate too...

[Telford]

ninja edited into the May 10 update notes:

The issue wherein a puppetmaster's automaton taking any offensive action other than auto-attack would not generate enmity for its master. (*Updated 5/11/2011)

[Mizuharu]

ninja edited into the May 10 update notes:

Oh for the love of... That was OUR THING. It's how we SURVIVED when worst came to push! Just, what the Hell!

No, know what? Just no. Screw this.

[Lushipur]

until retrieve let the master get no hate, its fine for me.
having ranged attack to give master some hate is fine for pulling.

[Yukichibi]

Maybe it was done because a party of pup on the test server have done the new KCNM or Voidwatch too easily.
Just 6 pup unleashing a big spell, one after another, and then kill the mob.
In any case it's a little rough to change a fundamental aspect of the job like this.

[Lushipur]

i doubt bc and voidwatch could be done so easily

and, i suppose, the issue was first resolved with the diabolos bc no aggro fix

[Theodus]

I just tested it in Abyssea -La'Theine on limules with Spiritreaver.

-Deploy and immediately Retrieve so my pet starts casting but is no longer engaged. Upon finishing the cast, I Deactivated and got no hate.
-Deploy and wait until the spell goes off to Deactivate. I DID get hate.

So it looks like if your pet is still engaged when you Deactivate, you will get hate. Not a big deal to me since I usually immediately Retrieve after a nuke anyway, even if I plan on keeping the puppet out. Kinda sucks if you're doing a kite fight with VE trailing behind, though I doubt you'd really pull that much hate.

[LouIsCool]

If you've been doing DAD correctly, nothing changes.

Deploy
Retrieve
Deactivate

Still Hateless. They just modified it so if you don't retrieve, you get hate. not really a big change, especially if you have a macro for it already.

[xbobx]

how is that correctly? I never retreived, I placed blm puppet just outside of AOE range, nuke, deactivate, there is no reason to retrieve.

now there is, just hope mob doesnt get a shot in as you hitting the two macros.

[LouIsCool]

Xbobx, you've been doing it wrong all this time then.

You retrieve so your puppet doesn't accidentally get in a melee shot and claim the mob, so you SHOULD have been doing this all along. Don't get salty just because you are a bad pup.

[Dfoley]

Actually lou you are only half correct and all turd.

You only do that if you are trynig to kill a mob without agroing or if you are pining you do it to avoid your pet getting hit by melee thus making it not reactivate.

It doesnt make you a bad pup to not do it that way... so heres your turd cap <8ooOoo wear it with pride

If your in abyssea, you typically just deploy at 80% + to make sure it gets the nuke in before it dies, and just DAD to ensure it has full mp. In most other areas where you use the mage pet you can no retrieve all you want as long as it doesnt run into melee / ae range, and just desummon the second the nuke lands to prevent the mob from chasing you.

[xbobx]

"You retrieve so your puppet doesn't accidentally get in a melee shot and claim the mob"

kind of hard to melee shot the mob when you're puppet doesn't run in on the mob if you deploy at the right distance. I guess you didn't know that or maybe, you are actually the bad pup.

[LouIsCool]

You've been doing it wrong, obviously. Apparently even SE thinks so. If you didn't have this macro already you probably didn't ever use your puppet to despawn mobs in your way either. Again, noob pups acting tough in the LOLofficialforums. It's just troll city here.

No more food for either of you.

[Dfoley]

Man louiscool, complete turd. If only there was a thumbs down button.

[xbobx]

Coward that can't admit he could be wrong. Poor child.

[LouIsCool]

kind of hard to melee shot the mob when you're puppet doesn't run in on the mob if you deploy at the right distance. I guess you didn't know that or maybe, you are actually the bad pup.

Your puppet must be different then mine, because after mine casts and its waiting on global recast it runs in to melee. Just me though, obviously..

[Gael]

If your automaton runs to melee, its because you deployed it too far away of the mob. Not sure about the numbers but try to deploy it at 10 Yalms away from a mob and you will see that your automaton wont go in melee range and wont try to melee (i guess the distance max is 14.9 Yalms)

[xbobx]

"Your puppet must be different then mine, because after mine casts and its waiting on global recast it runs in to melee. Just me though, obviously"

Thankyou for proving to everyone you are the bad pup. So yes, it is just you, because you don't know how to play pup.

Love when someone proves themself wrong in his own post. This is where I guess you disappear and stop replying whne you realize you have no clue.

[Dfoley]

Yeah way to dis people and be a turd, and turn around and realize you have no clue how to actually play your job...

[LouIsCool]

Yeah this also shows you don't take pup anything that matters.

Have fun deploying your auto at 10 yalms and letting it get hit by AoE since nearly EVERYTHING in aby has AoE.

So I take it you two trolls run in to aoe range and deploy your puppet and then sit back and watch as it casts aspir and drain and rely on mana tanks to get mp back because it has taken damage? Thought so.

Deploy at max range, puppet starts casting, retrieve. Cast, deactivate, activate, ice ice, deploy, retrieve, ice, cast, deactivate.

There you go, I just gave you a cheat sheet to make you a better pup.

I'll admit, you are decent at trolling because I keep replying. The fact is, you are eithr A) terrible at pup or B) just trolling. Either way, I'm done with the free advice.

[Dfoley]

Have fun deploying your auto at 10 yalms and letting it get hit by AoE since nearly EVERYTHING in aby has AoE.

So I take it you two trolls run in to aoe range and deploy your puppet and then sit back and watch as it casts aspir and drain and rely on mana tanks to get mp back because it has taken damage? Thought so.

Deploy at max range, puppet starts casting, retrieve. Cast, deactivate, activate, ice ice, deploy, retrieve, ice, cast, deactivate.

There you go, I just gave you a cheat sheet to make you a better pup.

I'll admit, you are decent at trolling because I keep replying. The fact is, you are eithr A) terrible at pup or B) just trolling. Either way, I'm done with the free advice.

Ooo someone looks butt hurt.
1) you admit you dont take pup to anything that matters,
2) you obviously had no clue how deploy worked
3) no, on NM id ont deploy at 10, i deploy at max range, but on everything non nm i deploy where ever since my vehead/ssbody frame will run in until it builds 100 tp, fire off a 3-4k ws then die and be DEA
4) I like how we are trolls when you started the flame then got called out on not actually knowing the class your trolling on
5) lol at you cheat sheet have fun doing big nukes every 1 min while me and my pet crank out more ws dmg in 30 sec then your pet does in 2 minutes.
6) you have got to be the worst pup/troller i have ever seen, so again sir, wear that turd hat proudly, youve earned it

[xbobx]

Max range for blm and whm puppet is farther then 10, its actually over 15. You can actually deploy your mage puppet outside out aoe range on most nms. It is only when their aoe is actually over 20 where you get in problems but most mobs aoe is 15.

I have done this 100's of times, obviously you haven't. Why is it so hard for you to admit you are wrong? Did your parents not hug you enough?

[Bhujerba]

If you've been doing DAD correctly, nothing changes.

Deploy
Retrieve
Deactivate

Still Hateless. They just modified it so if you don't retrieve, you get hate. not really a big change, especially if you have a macro for it already.
I'm just replaying to confirm this, I'm glad they didnt make it build hate even with retrieve >.>
I wish deploy had wider range I usually get close to deploy , retrieve and stand 20~ yard until it nukes, that's how I always do it :|

[Kristal]

Hate-free nukes are definitely no longer hate-free. We were doing Itzpapalotl with 4 (THF/NIN, BLM, WHM, PUP), but things went a bit sour. Ended up kiting it away from the roaches, with ample use of Auto-Reraise atma. Only one without that was me (PUP). At one point, the BLM was using dots and terrain to keep it agrod, while the tank recovered from weakness. I used nukebot to blast it down, retrieve as soon as it started casting on Itz, and deactivated the moment the spell landed. Itz then turned on me.

Perhaps something went wrong in the hectic situation, but the nuking looked clean and I had no enmity myself prior to deploying.

[Drhatchet]

Either way, I'm done with the free advice.

Good, keep your "advice" to yourself.

[Lushipur]

I'm just replaying to confirm this, I'm glad they didnt make it build hate even with retrieve >.>
I wish deploy had wider range I usually get close to deploy , retrieve and stand 20~ yard until it nukes, that's how I always do it :|

when i use blm auto i do the same as you.

16' for deploying without having the maton going melee;
moving to 20' for maton to nuke;

never understood why we cant directly deploy at 20'

[Drhatchet]

At 16' you are out of range for most nms tp moves. 20' is (usually) reserved for the hardest and nastiest tp moves in the game, so there is nothing wrong leaving the auto at 16' in most cases.

[Futan]

I'm just replaying to confirm this, I'm glad they didnt make it build hate even with retrieve >.>
I wish deploy had wider range I usually get close to deploy , retrieve and stand 20~ yard until it nukes, that's how I always do it :|

Everyone who's been saying this realizes you're probably submitting a "bug report" by doing so right? lol.

Anyways, it's messed up how badly PUP was hit with the nerf bat this update. Essentially smacked with it 3 times. This, Burts and the Ducal Guard nerf, although I'm not sure how much the latter affected PUP.

[Drhatchet]

Ducal Guard really wasn't as game breaking for pup as it was for BST and especially SMN. It still only kicked in when the auto was half dead, and the auto didn't have native -50% pdt to make it hit 100% pdt.