100% PDT for PET is plain BS.

[Ilax]

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....

[Siviard]

Do you think you're a good person with so much hatred in your heart for a certain group of people? Shameful.....just shameful....

Bad timing for this thread too, with all the PUPs totally ticked off and all. It's like kicking us while we're down.

[Seriha]

I'm seeing frustration more than anger. With Abyssea being a time-sensitive environment, bumping into someone basically tickling a mob to death is not a good thing, be it a pet job, some alliance zombie'ing, or anything that can attack from range using pinning. As is, other invlunerabilities like Avatars or BRD's bugged carols have been fixed, and actual player damage reduction is capped outside of limited use meds or 2 hours. As much as these jobs may be reveling in the perks of that power, it is an exploit. And while I can empathize with those who had worked to build their -PDT sets for this purpose, this is one of those "Too good to be true!" things.

[Runespider]

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

[Vold]

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%. And while I'm not a BST 90 with 100% PDT pet nor will I be anytime soon if ever, I also have any of a dozen jobs welcomed in Abyssea. I really do not shed a tear for anyone hurt emotionally by this. Go BST. You damn well deserve it.

[Runespider]

Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%.

If I could get -100% Physical damage taken on PLD I would be all over it and would make pld amazingly broken. It's not that hard to get either, an Atma and some magian weapons, -50% is ok but -100% is completely silly.

[Cyranda]

Not really, if you understood just what it takes to get that 100%. And while I'm not a BST 90 with 100% PDT pet nor will I be anytime soon if ever, I also have any of a dozen jobs welcomed in Abyssea. I really do not shed a tear for anyone hurt emotionally by this. Go BST. You damn well deserve it.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. BST, PUP and, to some degree, SMN, are rarely welcomed to Abyssea except to solo (and that's just welcoming themselves), never to parties that require procs, and so people who enjoy playing them and not, say, BLM, WHM, BLU, BRD, WAR, MNK or NIN, should rightly be able to get something on them (and so should other jobs that commonly get looked over). The fact that jobs regularly invited to proc groups have to wait for some poor BST, SMN or any other rarely invited job to finish slowly killing a monster are not high on my sympathy list; they already get to blaze through killing and getting their stuff when the unfortunate job isn't there, and that's the VAST majority of the time (not to mention that they can proc and actually get stuff at a reasonable speed), and they can actually come on a job they LIKE to play.

If you want the BST to get its butt out of your way, maybe you should convince SE to encourage people to actually invite it so people who enjoy playing BST can actually do so and not have to deal with both being rejected and the demands that it cease doing the only things it actually can. That way EVERYONE can have some fun and get stuff instead of just people who like a few select jobs.

[Arcon]

100% damage reduction makes absolutely no sense. That's a PLD's 2hr, which (duh) you can only use every two hours. For a 30 second duration. Having BST and PUP fulltime it is just silly. 80% I can understand, and in fact I believe that should be the cap (for players too). And yes, as was pointed out, Abyssea is a time-sensitive area, and even if it wasn't, watching a guy tickle a mob down for 90min and more when you wanted to do that is not just generally disappointing, but also against the spirit of Abyssea, which is to make content easily accessible to everyone. People complained about 3min respawn timer for ???s, but having to postpone a NM because someone is AFKing it to death for longer than you can even stay in the zone? It's like soloing Genbu in 5 hours. While it's possible, and kudos to you if you have that much patience, it obstructs content for everyone else. It's simply unfair.

[Zyeriis]

I was watching an alliance kill Raja the other day and the PLD and NIN in the party died. Yet, Raja wasn't chasing the mages down. Want to know why? Lucky Lulush was tanking him. Guess who continued to tank him with absolutely no problems whatsoever the entirety of the rest of the fight: a white rabbit named Lucky Lulush. It was hilariously sad. Why no one has realized how broken this is, and exploited it to it's fullest extent is beyond me. Maybe if people start exploiting it, SE will step up and do something.

[Akujima]

I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.

[Cyranda]

100% damage reduction makes absolutely no sense. That's a PLD's 2hr, which (duh) you can only use every two hours. For a 30 second duration. Having BST and PUP fulltime it is just silly. 80% I can understand, and in fact I believe that should be the cap (for players too). And yes, as was pointed out, Abyssea is a time-sensitive area, and even if it wasn't, watching a guy tickle a mob down for 90min and more when you wanted to do that is not just generally disappointing, but also against the spirit of Abyssea, which is to make content easily accessible to everyone. People complained about 3min respawn timer for ???s, but having to postpone a NM because someone is AFKing it to death for longer than you can even stay in the zone? It's like soloing Genbu in 5 hours. While it's possible, and kudos to you if you have that much patience, it obstructs content for everyone else. It's simply unfair.

It's hardly any more or less unfair than wanting to play your BST and being told that you're worthless for the content and/or to come on another job that you don't like to be "productive" for proccing. If your response to that is "you could level and play another job and suck it up," well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it. Taking one of the only bones thrown at the BST away would be VASTLY more unfair to them then having to wait is to you.

[Akujima]

well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it.

Actually I think there should be only one job (that is essentially all current jobs rolled into one). And that we should all be our own Tanks, Healers and Melee.

We should all have -100% PDT and -100% MDT, as well as infinite STR, DEX, VIT, etc.

There should also be only 1 massive zone, and we should be able to teleport to a pinpointed location at will. (take note SE, I really want this... I'm tired of having to use warp scrolls and home points) Why? Because walking is too slow and I'm too lazy to press the W button on my keyboard to go anywhere.

[Cyranda]

Actually I think there should be only one job (that is essentially all current jobs rolled into one). And that we should all be our own Tanks, Healers and Melee.

We should all have -100% PDT and -100% MDT, as well as infinite STR, DEX, VIT, etc.

There should also be only 1 massive zone, and we should be able to teleport to a pinpointed location at will. Why? Because walking is too slow and I'm too lazy to press the W button on my keyboard to go anywhere.

Oh, totally, because spending 60+ minutes to solo something with an almost 0 rate of return is the same thing as just killing everything. I mean, think of what you could do if you were totally invincible and did 1 point of damage to a monster with 200,000,000 hit points every 10 seconds. You should be the first to have that ability available to you.

There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed unless they're compensated with some sort of *gasp* useful abilities that other people actually value!

[GlobalVariable]

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....

I could agree that 100% is to much, but you come off as crying that you had to wait because someone else had the NM. Terming it an exploit just because another job can do something you can't. It is an obviously allowed game mechanic and is a pain to max out requiring some really specialized gear. It isn't like every pet job is getting fat loot solo - need proc's. That is already a strong deterrent.

And my personal opinion? All of us should be able to hit 80% if take the time and effort to get the proper gear to go with those atmas that only work in abyssea anyway where you can just primeval brew anything anyway.


Minor edit:

And everyone is acting like each and every NM only does physical damage. News for you, you can't afk and you still will have to heal that pet. I could solo ahmuluk on bst. I wouldn't want to because I can't proc solo, but I could. Its still costing me some pet food and I have to pay attention. And if pdt builds got nerfed? I'd just be using more food and/or more than one jug. And taking just as long to kill it.

Pets don't have utsusemi. Pets can't pop a fanatics drink. Pets can't be cure bombed of na'd instead requiring the use of a long recast timer ability instead of spell. Pets are not frakkin unkillable even with -100% pdt though I am in favor of reducing it to -66~80%. as well as measures to prevent idiots from holding (which changing -pdt will not effect).

[Akujima]

There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed unless they're compensated with some sort of *gasp* useful abilities that other people actually value!

Not my fault SE decided to make every job vague and non-descriptive when Abyssea came out.

Seems their answer though is to make every job a super-hero that can do everything themselves. No wonder so many people give so little value towards other jobs eh?

[Runespider]

There's a reason why not a lot of BSTs or other pet jobs run around soloing things (hint, it's really slow and nets you almost nothing), but those that do shouldn't have the ability removed.

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

[Zyeriis]

I'm going to direct my response to this page of the debate back to what I posted on the first page.

[Cyranda]

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

On the balance, absolutely. I'd certainly prefer that than them losing the damage reduction and being forced to do things on other jobs they may not have or don't like playing. If they want to waste 60 minutes killing something with a low drop rate due to having no procs and whatnot, more power to them. With the very small number of people who actually do it and the only bother being the minor inconvenience to other players having to wait if they happen to come across the few monsters they solo this way, which is nothing compared to the inconvenience of them having to take the same amount of time and getting even less in return, yeah. Absolutely.

The effect on the game is pretty much negligible, and given that people with brew can already essentially be invincible, the arguments against it are simply weak.

[Arcon]

It's hardly any more or less unfair than wanting to play your BST and being told that you're worthless for the content and/or to come on another job that you don't like to be "productive" for proccing. If your response to that is "you could level and play another job and suck it up," well then you could just level a BST and solo your own monster with the -100% PDT and take advantage of it. Taking one of the only bones thrown at the BST away would be VASTLY more unfair to them then having to wait is to you.

Having a pet hit 80% PDT (which is quite easy to attain), is still an incredibly good tank, better than most player characters could be. Even if a perfectly geared and fully def-buffed PLD were to eat a 1k base damage hit to the face, it would be hit for maybe 400 damage. A pet would take 200 (twice as good), with a PDT set that isn't any challenge to attain. Some may argue even that is broken, but I wouldn't mind it. All I'm saying is 100% PDT makes no sense whatsoever.

[Ilax]

Thanks for all reply guys, tbh i don't care if BST have -100% PDT, then SE should just give them 20,000,000 attack bonus while at it, so they can kill they stupid NM in 1 sec and not blocking the NM for 90 min...

For the part where you say BST are refused in LS bc they can't trigger, that just plain bullshit, my friend is often on BST, we use him to tank mob, but you know what? We trick attack him and his pet hold and we trigger and we kill fast, that how the job should be play to not piss off entire community, but yet there always some lame douch that are ready to play on they own and screw everyone on they way careless if it take 90 min.

Why you think ppl hate the job so much? 7yr ago it was a problem, and guess what? Same deal today, the job isnt a problem, is the way ppl play it....

Sorry world have plenty of douch, PDT -100% no thanks.

[Cyranda]

Having a pet hit 80% PDT (which is quite easy to attain), is still an incredibly good tank, better than most player characters could be. Even if a perfectly geared and fully def-buffed PLD were to eat a 1k base damage hit to the face, it would be hit for maybe 400 damage. A pet would take 200 (twice as good), with a PDT set that isn't any challenge to attain. Some may argue even that is broken, but I wouldn't mind it. All I'm saying is 100% PDT makes no sense whatsoever.

I certainly think there are more elegant solutions to giving some jobs advantages where they currently lack, though I think it would make less sense if it also didn't essentially make the BST hit like a cotton ball. Getting 100% damage reduction isn't too badly balanced given the work one has to put into getting it, the return on the investment (low) and the gigantic waste of time it is to solo something using it, especially considering how jobs that DON'T have it, with some exceptions (I'm looking at you, RNG and PLD), can get gear faster and wouldn't actually trade their proccing, stuff-getting status to get 100% PDT, slug-speed killing and poor returns anyway.

[Ravenmore]

Love how that aku is acting like "every job vague and non-descriptive" is something that only started with abyssea.

[Cyranda]

Thanks for all reply guys, tbh i don't care if BST have -100% PDT, then SE should just give them 20,000,000 attack bonus while at it, so they can kill they stupid NM in 1 sec and not blocking the NM for 90 min...

For the part where you say BST are refused in LS bc they can't trigger, that just plain bullshit, my friend is often on BST, we use him to tank mob, but you know what? We trick attack him and his pet hold and we trigger and we kill fast, that how the job should be play to not piss off entire community, but yet there always some lame douch that are ready to play on they own and screw everyone on they way careless if it take 90 min.

Why you think ppl hate the job so much? 7yr ago it was a problem, and guess what? Same deal today, the job isnt a problem, is the way ppl play it....

Sorry world have plenty of douch, PDT -100% no thanks.

Wouldn't it be nice if most LSs and parties let their BSTs and PUPs come to do damage and be useful? Well, it's too bad that they don't, and reasonable people are in short supply. Instead of bringing a BST like you might and doing something useful, most groups will just bring another job that can proc (or just go without the BST replacement) and kill fast anyway, with one less person to whom they have to distribute items.

If they didn't, the BSTs and other jobs wouldn't bother with the slow killing and crappy returns.

[Ilax]

Wouldn't it be nice if most LSs and parties let their BSTs and PUPs come to do damage and be useful? Well, it's too bad that they don't, and reasonable people are in short supply. Instead of bringing a BST like you might and doing something useful, most groups will just bring another job that can proc (or just go without the BST replacement) and kill fast anyway, with one less person to whom they have to distribute items.

If they didn't, the BSTs and other jobs wouldn't bother with the slow killing and crappy returns.

Well you know where all this is going to end, everyone will hate BST job more then ever now, and that wont help them at all to be accepted in any LS/Event, is going to be same as it was 7yr ago, BST no thanks go solo.

Is what you think the best for the job? If so then be it, trust me from now i will never accept a BST in any of my exp PT, nor in my ls. (GO SOLO)

You think i am the only one that will end with such of reaction? Just wait to see a BST making your LS waste 60~90 min and have to refill stone bc of one of these, and tell me about the feeling.

Can do that BS full PDT in 2 week, so go figure, i am almost tempted to go do that PDT setup and go BST/WHM and Dia kill the mob in front of your ls and see how you would like it. (Of course after my friend fell cleave me 2600 min)

This really need to be fix...

[GlobalVariable]

I certainly think there are more elegant solutions to giving some jobs advantages where they currently lack, though I think it would make less sense if it also didn't essentially make the BST hit like a cotton ball. Getting 100% damage reduction isn't too badly balanced given the work one has to put into getting it, the return on the investment (low) and the gigantic waste of time it is to solo something using it, especially considering how jobs that DON'T have it, with some exceptions (I'm looking at you, RNG and PLD), can get gear faster and wouldn't actually trade their proccing, stuff-getting status to get 100% PDT anyway, slug-speed killing and poor returns anyway.

This really only happens if they are using all their atmas on regen/pdt and none on doing damage. In those cases when they take that long, I'm in favor of the mob getting PO'd at the delay and bypassing -pdt as part of its raging *cough* Raja example *cough*.

While we're talking about damage...If you go the opposite way and go full on damage instead of pdt some pets will put out some simply ridiculous damage.

[Ravenmore]

No 7 years ago people would just steal what ever NM the bst was soloing. If you didn't want to wait in line for 5 to 8 hours for 18 other people to pop your O.hat mob you got 2 to 3 bst to come help you. On top of all that they were denied a party slot for the longest time cause people thought the -exp for wild pets included the rest of the party. Seeing how no abyssea mobs can be charmed let them have it not like you can't go do other NMs farm KIs or omg farm TEs and stay in the zone forever. I can stay in there as long as I want soloing on blu so if you got 2 to 6 other people can't see why you couldn't do the same.

[Starcade]

I'm seeing frustration more than anger. With Abyssea being a time-sensitive environment, bumping into someone basically tickling a mob to death is not a good thing, be it a pet job, some alliance zombie'ing, or anything that can attack from range using pinning. As is, other invlunerabilities like Avatars or BRD's bugged carols have been fixed, and actual player damage reduction is capped outside of limited use meds or 2 hours. As much as these jobs may be reveling in the perks of that power, it is an exploit. And while I can empathize with those who had worked to build their -PDT sets for this purpose, this is one of those "Too good to be true!" things.

What do they call it? Boring the mob to death? :)

[Akujima]

I deleted that post because it wasn't funny enough.

[Cyranda]

Well you know where all this is going to end, everyone will hate BST job more then ever now, and that wont help them at all to be accepted in any LS/Event, is going to be same as it was 7yr ago, BST no thanks go solo.

I guess enough people might be that petty, but meh. I don't think it happens enough for the entire community, or even a large part of it, to feel that way. I think, rather, that it's really just a minor nuisance being blown way out of proportion.

[Cyranda]

This really only happens if they are using all their atmas on regen/pdt and none on doing damage. In those cases when they take that long, I'm in favor of the mob getting PO'd at the delay and bypassing -pdt as part of its raging *cough* Raja example *cough*.

While we're talking about damage...If you go the opposite way and go full on damage instead of pdt some pets will put out some simply ridiculous damage.

And that they do! It's too bad people aren't inviting for damage of late :(

[Dallas]

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er

[Cyranda]

People are going to have to further accept, that they can't be supreme and almighty. "Solo" is escaping inevitability: There will always be other people, and you're going to have to interact with them. -100% PDT or -100% MDT or -100% whatever... It makes no difference.

Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.

[Ravenmore]

What game were you playing Aku. Blm was one of the best solo jobs. For alot of mission didn't even need a tank. Ever seen what 1O+ blms could do to DM, word i'm think best suit it would insta win.

[GlobalVariable]

Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.
SHHH you'll ruin the anti solo play straw man


I'm just waiting to laugh at arguments against solos that use kiting instead of pets.

[Ilax]

I guess enough people might be that petty, but meh. I don't think it happens enough for the entire community, or even a large part of it, to feel that way. I think, rather, that it's really just a minor nuisance being blown way out of proportion.

idk, my friend talking to do it, and so is probably 10,000 player after reading this post....

Invincible in abyssea, hey who not interest in this? Seriously, i can already see all LS with they BST and 100% PDT otw right now.


Go go new setup: BST, BLM/BRD, BLU, WAR/RDM FTW. (can self cleave, trigger everything, and tank everything)

{Broken game do you need it?}

[Cyranda]

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er

It's apparently much more important for people to rage about their minor inconveniences than it is be nice to people (by, say offering an invite and alliance lead/quartermaster). Though I bet someone argues that the rare job that actually solos with -100% PDT will just not accept the invite and be a jerk. Because the 3 BSTs of the 58 online at the time are all going to always say no, no matter what ;)

[Akujima]

Well darn, Mr. Hyperbole, if only it were the BSTs and PUPs and, sometimes, SMNs, and recently PLD and RNG, wanting to solo causing the issues as opposed to people not wanting to do things WITH those jobs, you might have a better point. It's not their anti-social traits or "wanting to be almighty" causing the problem.

Look. Just take FFXI offline, and we can "tweet" to eachother in game about what we're doing.

You know how many problems that would solve? No competition, No having to "wait" for someone to finish killing their NM, No having to compete for what's being dropped. Solves alot of the major problems that many people are having, if you ask me.

[Cyranda]

idk, my friend talking to do it, and so is probably 10,000 player after reading this post....

Invincible in abyssea, hey who not interest in this? Seriously, i can already see all LS with they BST and 100% PDT otw right now.


Go go new setup: BST, BLM/BRD, BLU, WAR/RDM FTW. (can self cleave, trigger everything, and tank everything)

{Broken game do you need it?}

They've been able to do it for quite a long time now, and it hasn't caught on much at all. I really don't think it's going to spread like wildfire if it hasn't already.

[Akujima]

What game were you playing Aku. Blm was one of the best solo jobs. For alot of mission didn't even need a tank. Ever seen what 1O+ blms could do to DM, word i'm think best suit it would insta win.


10+ BLM = Solo, how?

And...

Actually "Instant Win" is 2 words. Oh, sorry I'm just pointing out your little mistake. Hope you're not upset.

[Ravenmore]

Np shoulda seen that and put solo in a differnt paragraph shouldn't assume that you had any idea how good blm was at soloing. I mean how esle did they get 75. The 10+blms was to show that you didn't need a tank or pulling hate was a bad thing only crappy blms got killed in a couple of hits. The game used to be throw as any blms at a mob that you could find. Just to add little more blm/rdm got a good bit of survival tools.

[Novati]

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.

There's also no skill to a tank or DD getting curebombed by a whm mule with almost unlimited mp as well. There's far too many of these duos happening in Abyssea lately more than a few pet soloists. Also most BSTs don't really use -100% PDT. Alot like to sacrifice some pdt for atmas like RR to help speed up a fight. Infact many with a decent pdt and mdt build will favour to slap on more dmg potential until problems start to arise in keeping up with reward and call beast timers.

To OP:
If someone who is solo'ing is taking too long and you are impatient then ask them if they'd like help to speed up the fight to save you waiting longer. When I solo I tend to make sure there isn't any one in the area planning on fighting the same NM anytime soon. If someone does come along and it seems I might be awhile (though it only takes around 10-20mins depending on the NM) then I'll ask if they'd like to help or accept help if they offer it. Sometimes there are people who just stand there impatiently like morons and don't respond to any offer. In that case they only have themselves to blame.

Furthermore there will be times I go to solo a NM for 1 pop that may take me 5-10mins if I fight alongside my pet. However when I get to the place there will be a party there spamming the NM for a good hour or so, refuse to reply, and popping as soon as the ??? is up. I just move to something else thats free or come back later. How is that fair to me? I do believe that pet jobs are the only players that show any kind of courtesy in this game.

To wrap up though:

I don't feel the need for -100%pdt and pet jobs can perform MUCH better if they refrain from the gimmick of being almost invincible. (They still take abit of magic dmg)

However the OP seems more of a rant about soloists than about PDT in which the player was unhelpful, uncourteous, and very impatient. Did you really stand there and do nothing for 60mins watching someone solo? O_o;

[Akujima]

Np shoulda seen that and put solo in a differnt paragraph shouldn't assume that you had any idea how good blm was at soloing. I mean how esle did they get 75. The 10+blms was to show that you didn't need a tank or pulling hate was a bad thing only crappy blms got killed in a couple of hits. The game used to be throw as amny blms at a mob that you could find.

Actually the whole notion of BLM's solo'ing in the first place, was conceived after the conception of rigidly formed Merit PT's consisting of WAR, SAM, SAM, RDM, BRD, BRD.

Everyone was so hell bent on WAR, SAM, RDM and BRD, that they refused to invite other jobs to their groups, let alone acknowledge their existence. People who played anything but those 4 jobs, had to find ways for themselves to Level Up.

The same imbalance continues today, except one thing is different; it's just been dumped onto other jobs.

[Ravenmore]

No your wrong again. BLMs dump merit parties long before merit parties dump them. Mana burns were around before TP burns. Arens used to be able to RR iirc up to 5 times so you could solo for almost as much exp as a reg party and get more then one blm and do a old school mana burn could blow away TP burn before toau. Only till TaAU came out did TP burns get more exp then mana burns, got to remember back then 10k a hour was godly exp. So mobs that was really hard to run out of in a place that no tp brun party would ever set foot in with no only one annoying stat effect that could be removed by /whm or item was pretty nice till SE said no and nerf them.

[Avina]

Look. Just take FFXI offline, and we can "tweet" to eachother in game about what we're doing.

You know how many problems that would solve? No competition, No having to "wait" for someone to finish killing their NM, No having to compete for what's being dropped. Solves alot of the major problems that many people are having, if you ask me.

I want to archive your posts, sir, you have me rolling on the floor lol

[Ravenmore]

Crap I keep thinking of other ideas after hitting reply. Sam used to not get invited to tp burns the best groups were war/nin DWing axes or axe/muti-hit weapon nin/war, or even better tp burn was mnk/war x4, brd, whm in a good old KRT party. couldn't find a brd grab a another mnk/war and go to town.

[GlobalVariable]

If I could get -100% Physical damage taken on PLD I would be all over it and would make pld amazingly broken. It's not that hard to get either, an Atma and some magian weapons, -50% is ok but -100% is completely silly.

I can easily hit the 50% gear cap on several jobs pld included, just like pet jobs do for their pets. The rest is done by atma. If you've got a burtang (yeah I know, unlikely) the update allows you go past the normal gear cap as well, and lets not even start on the ochain argument. The point is you can make yourself see lots of zero's for melee damage from mobs.

[Limecat]

This also doesn't address all the potential issues a BST setup like that has. Heavy slip damage via dia/bio/poison/whatever effects and auras, TP moves from the NMs that reset hate or can cause petrification, heavy magic spam... all these things will still kill a pdt BST. About the only argument I could agree with is that maybe each Abyssean NM with no magical damage should get an enelement/spell/magic TP attack/hate reset or three. The BST is still working to stay on top of things either way. You may as well complain that DNC needs to be nerfed because they can solo things if they're paying attention and keeping up with the battle. Or maybe you want Ochain removed from the game too while we're at it? Like many others here however, it sounds more to me like you're just butthurt that you couldn't fight an NM at the time you wanted. Offer to help next time if you're in such a hurry.

[Glamdring]

bst>equip -100% pdt/Atma set-up>fight ___>___ casts Aeroga IV>___ casts Aeroga IV>pet dies>Call Beast -1:38 seconds>___ whacks Bst>Bst dead

Shut up and go work on your play skill, maybe earn some -pdt gear and Atma for yourself since it does exist. I didn't see you complaining about the ninja claiming an NM and taking an hour to solo it... or the blue... or the dnc... or the blm... or the rdm... or the mnk... or the drg..., see a trend?

[Zarabi]

I don't have a pet job, but it sounds kinda interesting ,however even by searching i haven't found any info on this, so could someone tell me: What exactly do you need to actually get 100% pdt? o.o pwetty please tell the kitty cat? .-.

[Eeek]

Now that the cat's out of the bag (no, I'm not a BST), I'm guessing that BST pets will see the same treatment that SMN avatars received a little while ago.

[Zyeriis]

Well Zyeriis. You are simply wrong.

Because I should be allowed to "one shot" Shinryu. It's too time consuming to go farm cruor and get a primeval brew. So I think they should take out all these time consuming things and make the game easier.

-100% PDT is a step in the right direction if you ask me. And -80% PDT like a suggestion that was made above is not enough.

Wait, what?
How am I wrong about detailing what I saw (an alliance that ended up with Lucky Lulush tanking Raja because the PLD and NIN died)?

[Siviard]

I don't have a pet job, but it sounds kinda interesting ,however even by searching i haven't found any info on this, so could someone tell me: What exactly do you need to actually get 100% pdt? o.o pwetty please tell the kitty cat? .-.

Truth be told, it's not 100% PDT. It might just SEEM like that because most BSTs I know use Mounted Champion (for the REGEN), Razed Ruin (to help speed things up) and Atma of the Ducal Guard (the key ingredient)

There are also pieces of gear (Anwig's Salade, Mirke Wardecors, Magian Axes) that can also have Pet: PDT+% augmented onto them for a cumulative effect. However, it doesn't quite come up to 100%, it's about 85% or so, but it might SEEM like it's 100% because whatever damage the pet is taking is being recovered by the REGEN from Atma of the Mounted Champion.

To me it just sounds like the OP is /butthurt because an NM he/she wanted wasn't available, and is obviously so biased against pet jobs that he/she felt it necessary to make a post about it here. Like someone else mentioned earlier....why don't you make a thread about a NIN taking too long to solo something, or a DNC, or a RDM, or a BLU or a BLM? I've personally seen others taking a long time to kill various NMs that weren't BST. So stop being a hater and a troll, and get over it.

[Dallas]

Pet jobs don't suffer from raise sickness anyway. We have never feared death. Not letting the pet owner die doesn't actually make us stronger.

[Akujima]

Wait, what?
How am I wrong about detailing what I saw (an alliance that ended up with Lucky Lulush tanking Raja because the PLD and NIN died)?

Because any job should be able to "Tank". Also every Job should be able to heal themselves and not have to rely on a "Healer". That being said, I will be glad when they finally implement a vendor that sells every piece of equipment for 1~5 gil.


(if you haven't already noticed, that post was total sarcasm and I agree that SE needs to fix pets being able to tank better than PLD's "should")

[Zyeriis]

Because any job should be able to "Tank". Also every Job should be able to heal themselves and not have to rely on a "Healer". That being said, I will be glad when they finally implement a vendor that sells every piece of equipment for 1~5 gil.


(if you haven't already noticed, that post was total sarcasm and I agree that SE needs to fix pets being able to tank better than PLD's do)

Eh, I wasn't actually taking a side. More of "smell the coffee" post. People complain that BSTs are soloing "their" stuff. I was giving an example where BST, in an alliance, saved the day and made the PLD/NIN/Healers look silly. It is obvious it needs a fix but, I doubt it'll ever happen: you know, unless people realize how truly broken it is and start exploiting it. Whining about people soloing "their" mobs isn't gonna do jack.

[Luvbunny]

To the original poster.. jealous much? Sorry if you are too lazy to work on 100% PDT gears... Pet based jobs are a rare sight on Abysea, this is SE way to give us a little incentive to come and play. Solo is never a great alternative anyway vs these NMs, it takes too long and they would rage after awhile and gets harder and harder to kill. So stop being a complete retard and quit posting non-sensical subject.

[Heady]

I seem to only get "down with solo play" out of this post rather than the -pdt% in question. So im guessing back when sky was popular if your LS saw a bst soloing Despot or a rdm soloing Zipacna you would try your best to distract them to wipe or stand in their way or curebomb the bst that forgot to /blockaid. Not pointing fingers , just the feeling im getting out of this.

[Greatguardian]

The amount of absolute crying and "Don't be hatin'" in this thread is hilarious.

Ducal Guard has always been a wonky atma. Summoners got the nerfbat swung at them because they were rocking 100% PDT. Bst and Pup still have it, so either it was intentional and you have nothing to worry about or it wasn't and they'll fix it.

Either way, no one really cares at all about "People not letting you come Bst to linkshell events". Really. I do not care. At all. When I run events in the shell I'm in, I either assign someone a job because they're needed on that job, or I tell them I don't give a crap what they come on. In the case of the former, people who bitch and moan and complain about "wanting to come BST", get a freaking pearlsmash because that sort of attitude sucks. In the case of the latter, I don't really care if people take the opportunity to come Pup/Bst/Smn/whatever, specifically because I said I don't give a crap.

If your attitude and your shell's attitude don't sync, then fix it or leave. It's mind boggling to hear people bitching in this day and age about "Endgame Shells only let me do X, Y, and Z" when any group of like-minded friends with half an ounce of competence between them can do the majority of the game's content in under a party of 6.

Edit: Of course, if all 6 of the aforementioned people are troglodytes that refuse to come anything but pup to everything every time, good luck proc'ing anything.

[Meyi]

On the balance, absolutely. I'd certainly prefer that than them losing the damage reduction and being forced to do things on other jobs they may not have or don't like playing. If they want to waste 60 minutes killing something with a low drop rate due to having no procs and whatnot, more power to them. With the very small number of people who actually do it and the only bother being the minor inconvenience to other players having to wait if they happen to come across the few monsters they solo this way, which is nothing compared to the inconvenience of them having to take the same amount of time and getting even less in return, yeah. Absolutely.

The effect on the game is pretty much negligible, and given that people with brew can already essentially be invincible, the arguments against it are simply weak.

Except a brew generally causes the monster to die relatively quick. Taking sixty minutes to kill a monster is inconsiderate in a zone where time is limited.

Is the 100% PDT from gear and merit combinations? Or do all pets just have 100% PDT natively? I think a native PDT that high should be fixed. However, I see absolutely nothing wrong with a dedicated and well equipped pet job reaching such high numbers.

[Pikel]

Truth be told, it's not 100% PDT. It might just SEEM like that because most BSTs I know use Mounted Champion (for the REGEN), Razed Ruin (to help speed things up) and Atma of the Ducal Guard (the key ingredient)

However, it doesn't quite come up to 100%, it's about 85% or so, but it might SEEM like it's 100% because whatever damage the pet is taking is being recovered by the REGEN from Atma of the Mounted Champion.


Actually with time and effort you can get 100% Atma of Ducal Guard, Atma of Zenith is -60%. There's a head piece which is another -10%. This here is damage not just PDT but MDT too. Then you can quest two pdt axes use AF3 legs and a shepard's Chain. That I believe gives you -100% pdt and -78% mdt (I believe the bst legs are both types of damage).

That being said as a Bst I don't see anything wrong with this. If their are others waiting for spawns I team up if we rotate spawns. I will hold nm for them while they proc mobs and things go faster. Also it still required some skill/knowledge to solo things thou not as much as before. Alot of nm's have hate resets or fast hate decay. Anything with magic chew's up your pet fast enough you typically ride reward timers. Quite a few nm's have Doom effects or petrify or anmesia which can make killing tricky to impossible.

If you think us being able to solo a mob in 60 min's is unfair feel free to complain. But in my time playing this game both inside and outside of abyssea I have had my fair share of watching other jobs solo mobs taking just as much time. Like Rdm's DoT kiting. Thf Evasion tanking curing with bloody bolts and eventually /dnc. Nin's were a natural soloer even more so when /dnc came out. Maybe we should focus on all these jobs? Or better yet I've waited on Duo'd who couldn't proc and held mobs maybe SE could just spawn nm's with their weakness displayed in spawner's chat log?

If you feel it's an unfair hack go level the job and take advantage before it is changed. :P

[blowfin]

Meh, there's nothing wrong with the 100% PDT build. It's actually quite a lot of work to get to that point, and it's quite situational. Regardless, soloing Hedjedjet is a pretty fruitless exercise when it can drop no upgrade items at all, and I do have to question the wisdom of the individual that was doing it.

As people have said too, BST needed some concessions. Our Empy WS really sucks (even more so now that the crit. cap has gone up), we get pretty shafted when it comes to triggers in Abyss and yeah... It's nice to have some decent toys to play with, even if they do slow our damage right down.

Also, about the time pertinent comment that gets tossed out. It's pretty moot at this stage. If people don't have plenty of stones, they're doing something wrong. People get upset because their plans have to change on the fly when someone else has a mob, so rather than finding something else to do, a lot of people will stand around like slack jawed yokels while they watch you fight. If people do this with BST, chances are they wouldn't hesitate to gank the mob if it went yellow for a second. Because you've somehow offended people to the point they need to act like jerks if you're fighting "their" mob.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....So you'd rather they die horribly and never be able to get anything accomplished, because their pets are virtualy uncurable? It's not an exploit either.

[Secondplanet]

as smn i love the fact that my avatar can stay alive for more then 5 hits, the fact that they can tank is even better. For a job were all you fruits are in one basket (your avatar) why shouldn't summoner have a way to tank a mob without needed to run and re-summon and repeat over and over. I was solo'ing one of the chariot NM's in altepa and when it was almost dead i had a player stand by me to try to steal it cause it's name goes white after certain conditions are met when the avatar was killed. But the fact i can solo something like that is awesome, so many melee jobs can solo now with atma's and crour buffs so why can't summoners get the same loving?

Also, if you can't stand waiting for them to finish the fight, team up with them and speed it up and let them have the drops, you get the mob killed faster and they get what they wanted (maybe) So if your complaining about how its not fair to take forever or that they go against what abyssea is for then relook at yourself, cause your going against what every Final Fantasy has ever stood for, helping each other out and fighting together for the greater good.

[Korpg]

SE have to fix that exploit, watching a BST 60 min long solo Hedjedjet is dumb, so is watching a PUP pet solo dargua for 60 min long as well.

Major mistake from SE allowing PET to have more then 50% PDT....

Also major mistake for letting DDs have more than 10% crit rate, more than 10% added HP, and give mages more than +5 Refresh, while you are at it.

If you want to gimp one set of jobs, gimp them all, gimp them all the way back to 75 levels!

[Akujima]

If you want to gimp one set of jobs, gimp them all, gimp them all the way back to 75 levels!

Do it.

Where PLD was actually a Tank, there was more to do than just Abyssea all day and Vana'diel wasn't the exact replica of Superman's home planet.

[Cyranda]

In the case of the former, people who bitch and moan and complain about "wanting to come BST", get a freaking pearlsmash because that sort of attitude sucks.

How dare they want to have fun playing a job they like instead of doing things they dislike in a video game. What a HORRIBlE attitude.

Feh.

[Greatguardian]

How dare they want to have fun playing a job they like instead of doing things they dislike in a video game. What a HORRIBlE attitude.

Feh.

When you're in a group setting, your responsibility lies with the benefit of the group. It's not like one person is sitting around having fun while everyone else slaves away. Everyone pitches in when it's necessary. If playing any job but XXX is plain not fun, then Endgame is not fun and that person should just not do Endgame.

Going "Me Me Me" with no regard to what the group needs is a horrible attitude, and I don't have any tolerance for it.

[Cyranda]

When you're in a group setting, your responsibility lies with the benefit of the group.

Except for the person who leveled a BST so he or she could actually use it at events, right? What you're describing is not "for the benefit of the team" or "shared sacrifice," but, "I benefit from the BST sacrificing all/most of their fun." That's just stupidly poor leadership. It's just you going "me me me" in the other direction and pretending it's for the team.

That you have no tolerance for people wanting to have fun says quite a bit, given that you can probably still have fun if the person comes on BST, while the person who leveled BST and never or rarely gets to use it at events rarely does.

[Korpg]

When you're in a group setting, your responsibility lies with the benefit of the group.

If you don't like having a BST in your group, kick that BST.

Then whine when that BST takes the mob you are trying to fight and solo's it himself, and keeps all the spoils for himself.

[Greatguardian]

Except for the person who leveled a BST so he or she could actually use it at events, right? What you're describing is not "for the benefit of the team" or "shared sacrifice," but, "I benefit from the BST sacrificing all/most of their fun." That's just stupidly poor leadership. It's just you going "me me me" in the other direction and pretending it's for the team.

That you have no tolerance for people wanting to have fun says quite a bit, given that you can probably still have fun if the person comes on BST, while the person who leveled BST and never or rarely gets to use it at events rarely does.

You're kidding, right? You read my earlier posts in their entirety, right? There is a difference between "Okay, we need you on WAR to fill out our Reds" and "Pfft Bst sucks u suck get on war lol noob".

Refusing to play an important role as part of a coherent group just because you want to do things your own way is an absolute crap attitude. Period.

If you care more about yourself than the group, that's fine. Don't be part of my group. I'm not taking your money and selling your house when I break your pearl. I am removing you from the group that you obviously can't work with. For the record, I let shellmates come on Blu, Pup, Smn, and whatever other crap all the time because, as I mentioned like 3 posts ago, whenever the basics are set I'll straight up tell someone I don't give a crap what they come on.

Pet jobs need to get over their victim complex. It's annoying, and to the rest of the game is a far bigger reason to avoid you than the job itself could ever be.

Edit: @Korpg, That's exactly what I said <_<. Someone whines and bitches about coming Bst when we need XXX, I kick them. I don't whine when people take an hour to kill shit, I just do other things. But I won't say it isn't annoying as all hell. It's nothing short of incompetent to fight something for that long.

[Ilax]

Also major mistake for letting DDs have more than 10% crit rate, more than 10% added HP, and give mages more than +5 Refresh, while you are at it.

If you want to gimp one set of jobs, gimp them all, gimp them all the way back to 75 levels!

PLD hardly able to get they place in abyssea due to inability to tank and hold hate decently even after working 1yr + 240 mil+ with Aegis, but hey a stupid BST with Sheep and a -100% PDT that take 2 week effort are able right?

I see 2 choice here, totally unlock PDT for all job or nerf this bullshit, i don't care if is even MAX PDT -90~-95%, see PET get 0 dmg for every move is just BS specially when the job take 60+ min to kill.

[Greatguardian]

If an Aegis PLD can't hold hate, they're doing it wrong. Hate has nothing at all to do with why Paladin is lame in Abyssea.

Also, Burtgang breaks the PDT cap for Paladin now. Testing with Aegis shows the new MDT cap goes up to at least 87.5%, so it's possible Burtgang does the same.

[GlobalVariable]

The amount of absolute crying and "Don't be hatin'" in this thread is hilarious.Glad you realize both are going on not just one. People say SE has yet to meet the middle ground but the players themselves can't ever meet in the middle either, its always so polarized.


Ducal Guard has always been a wonky atma. Summoners got the nerfbat swung at them because they were rocking 100% PDT. Bst and Pup still have it, so either it was intentional and you have nothing to worry about or it wasn't and they'll fix it.Avatars have that big elemental resistance with it though. I could be wrong but I thought the problem was they could literally walk around like a god ignoring both there element and melee damage. I have to heal my pet still for nearly everything (some I can end fight before it dies). Some jugs do have a partial resistance but its not enough to afk and come back to a win like people are acting. And I know nothing about pup so I can't comment there.

And the whole "well people don't let me use X" line of thought people use is plain crazy, a jobs gear and abilities are not the games way of compensating us for the attitudes of our fellow players.

[GlobalVariable]

PLD hardly able to get they place in abyssea due to inability to tank and hold hate decently even after working 1yr + 240 mil+ with Aegis, but hey a stupid BST with Sheep and a -100% PDT that take 2 week effort are able right? Not the BST fault abyssea made PLD feel useless.


I see 2 choice here, totally unlock PDT for all job or nerf this bullshit, i don't care if is even MAX PDT -90~-95%, see PET get 0 dmg for every move is just BS specially when the job take 60+ min to kill.Like I was saying earlier, just give us all the same reasonably high global cap. And I already have some jobs that are not pets being hit for singles digits and zeroes very consistently. Its not that hard to pull off.

[Cyranda]

You're kidding, right? You read my earlier posts in their entirety, right? There is a difference between "Okay, we need you on WAR to fill out our Reds" and "Pfft Bst sucks u suck get on war lol noob".

So you let people come on things they like when it's convenient FOR YOU under the guise of "for the group" because it's more efficient and helps you get your stuff faster and, of course, probably does nothing for them (I'd wager that you probably spend the the vast majority of the time getting "stuff for jobs that help the most" and relegating your BST/PUP/SMN loving "friends" to the back burner in terms of how you distribute loot, too, or they get the "scraps" that are left over). If they're willing to do so, the point is irrelevant. If someone despises playing other jobs and/or really likes their BST, or only has BST leveled, why not just let them come on it all the time?


Pet jobs need to get over their victim complex. It's annoying, and to the rest of the game is a far bigger reason to avoid you than the job itself could ever be.

No, they don't, and I'd say your attitude is more annoying. You've essentially stated that they can only really come when it *doesn't matter*, and when it actually does (or you think it does, anyway), you don't take them. Man, is that ever a great position to be in! "Well, there's no reason not to bring you today, Mrs. BST, so you can come. If it matters, though, to hell with you!" That's more of a reason to feel victimized than not because you're essentially being a fair-weather friend and will selfishly strip them of fun whenever it suits you. And yes, it IS more selfish for you to do that because the VAST majority of the time, them coming on BST won't hinder anyone, and probably still help to boot (some help is better than none).

But I suppose that's the thing. They have to make the maximum sacrifice possible for you to be happy or they're not good "team members." Of course, in this case, you don't actually care how that member of your team feels, despite that they're still helping you either kill the monster faster, kill adds, hold it while people are down. See:



If playing any job but XXX is plain not fun, then Endgame is not fun and that person should just not do Endgame."

Ridiculous, but I suppose it is true that they should probably leave your LS because you'll be a jerk to them, but that's the entirety of the problem.

[Greatguardian]

So you let people come on things they like when it's convenient FOR YOU under the guise of "for the group" because it's more efficient and helps you get your stuff faster and, of course, probably does nothing for them (I'd wager that you probably spend the the vast majority of the time getting "stuff for jobs that help the most" and relegating your BST/PUP/SMN loving "friends" to the back burner in terms of how you distribute loot, too, or they get the "scraps" that are left over). If they're willing to do so, the point is irrelevant. If someone despises playing other jobs and/or really likes their BST, or only has BST leveled, why not just let them come on it all the time?

So much bitterness. So you had some bad experiences with endgame shells, huh? Know some people that did? Or maybe you just feel like buying into the "Woe is us" complex? It doesn't really matter. My shell runs events fairly. Everyone gets the loot they earn, no matter what job it's for. You just make yourself look more and more stereotypically ignorant every time you post this rubbish. If so many people have similar problems, get better freaking shells.



No, they don't, and I'd say your attitude is more annoying. You've essentially stated that they can only really come when it *doesn't matter*, and when it actually does (or you think it does, anyway), you don't take them. Man, is that ever a great position to be in! "Well, there's no reason not to bring you today, Mrs. BST, so you can come. If it matters, though, to hell with you!" That's more of a reason to feel victimized than not because you're essentially being a fair-weather friend and will selfishly strip them of fun whenever it suits you. And yes, it IS more selfish for you to do that because the VAST majority of the time, them coming on BST won't hinder anyone, and probably still help to boot (some help is better than none).

I never said I don't take people. Where'd you get that from? Oh, unless those people simply sit out if they are asked to come non-Bst. But that's just childish of them. You seem to think events these days are things to be taken super cereals all the time. Hint: They're not. Dynamis? Got a black mage and a couple healy ish mages? Kay, everyone else do whatever the hell you want. Rinse and repeat for pretty much every level 75 event aside from AV. Get over yourself.


But I suppose that's the thing. They have to make the maximum sacrifice possible for you to be happy or they're not good "team members." Of course, in this case, you don't actually care how that member of your team feels, despite that they're still helping you either kill the monster faster, kill adds, hold it while people are down.

The goal is for everyone to be successful. That is not "my" goal. That is the goal of the group. Am I going to try and farm pop sets without Red procs? Hell no. Am I going to start fighting NMs with no one on a mage job? Hell no. Do I really care at all if a guy comes PUP or PLD once Procs and basic Healing are accounted for? Hell no. Oh and for the record, I spent years playing White Mage for my linkshell just so other people didn't have to because I'm not a brat. Get off your high horse.


See:

Ridiculous, but I suppose it is true that they should probably leave your LS because you'll be a jerk to them, but that's the entirety of the problem.

You assume I'm a jerk. Ask anyone who actually knows me from my server/linkshell. I'm a nice, laid back guy who generally lets people do whatever the hell they want as long as we don't wipefail at the end of the day. And yes, I still can't stand your attitude or the attitude of players who share it. Teamwork is not a bunch of people saying "Me Me Me" in unison. It's everyone saying "We We We". Sometimes, "We" needs a Warrior more than a Beastmaster. Get the hell over it.

[Luvbunny]

The goal is for everyone else with their 2-3 LOLs jobs to shut it until SE implement some changes with the next updates. Abysea made some LOLs jobs in the past become a better fun jobs to play and give solo jobs more reason to do stuffs on their own. All those dead jobs can either suck it, or wait till they get updated, it's your time for now at least to bear and grin it. A lot of other jobs had their shit moments, from Drg, Mnk, Thf, Blm, Whm, Smn, Pup, Bst, etc. Now those jobs suddenly have their shining moments with Abysea. The game is better than ever now, SE just have to tweak all the rest that are still not yet optimized.

[Bigboy]

This isn't really broken. It only works for a few encounters, and sucks up a lot of time in the process. As was mentioned in another thread... BST had it's core job ability made useless in Abyssea. I think most BST would like to throw the zone's worth of mobs at an NM, but charm works on NOTHING in Abyssea. Imagine having provoke not work, or if they made every WS into trash that wasn't even worth wasting TP on. That is basically what happened to BST, except we can tank some things really well solo. Not much, but some things. Any mobs that casts will kill the pet, and that's a lot of mobs.

[ShadowHeart]

become a ninja
2 x 10 pdt katana - 20
aht gi +1 nad head - 15
twilight neck - 5
grab 2 augment rings from abyssea - 10
throw on ducal guard oh now ur at - 100 pft and all that attack gear u can now add and atmas... alot more powerful then beast there are ways to do jobs which u can stack this on monk as well and throw in BB so gee ur crying about a pet job lol take a look at the monks right now....

[Greatguardian]

become a ninja
2 x 10 pdt katana - 20
aht gi +1 nad head - 15
twilight neck - 5
grab 2 augment rings from abyssea - 10
throw on ducal guard oh now ur at - 100 pft and all that attack gear u can now add and atmas... alot more powerful then beast there are ways to do jobs which u can stack this on monk as well and throw in BB so gee ur crying about a pet job lol take a look at the monks right now....

Player PDT caps at 50% unless you have a Burtgang. It's only pets that can hit anywhere over that =/.

[ShadowHeart]

was unaware thought that with recent update may have changed as they had stated that the % of player stats were being adjusted

[Greatguardian]

PDT cap was only raised for Burtgang Paladins. What it was raised to appears to be untested as of now, but Aegis appears to be at least 87.5% MDT cap so it's reasonable enough to assume Burtgang PLD can hit similar numbers now (assuming they have the gear/atma for it). It doesn't apply to anyone else in the game though, even Bsts themselves. Pets only.

[Dallas]

I want the OP to tell us if the "Hundred Shields" video should be nerfed. Let me know if you need a link.

[Yarly]

I want the OP to tell us if the "Hundred Shields" video should be nerfed. Let me know if you need a link.

Except blocking with shield is not 100% reduction so you still take damage so that's irrelevant. Try again.

[Kensagaku]

Players still cap at 50% as far as I know.

Cyr, your points started out pretty good, but GG's right. You did degrade yourself to the "woe is us" argument. If you want to come BST or PUP or some other pet job to an event? Fine. It's your opinion to want to. However, in a group setting other jobs are usually more useful and have a better application. That's not to say that these jobs can't have their place, but for the most part that place is solo. And this is coming from someone who has both BST and SMN leveled; I'd love to use them in an event, but I understand that there are other jobs I'm needed. If I need to go NIN for red procs then alright, I can do so. Need TH6? Okay. I'm well-rounded enough I can do a number of things.

The problem I'm seeing isn't that the LS or group is being a jerk, honestly; I'm seeing a lot of selfishness on your part. "I want" is what you're arguing for. You want to go BST, you want to play a job. However, as a group that's helping you get stuff done, they technically do have a say in what they believe will be the most useful. For example, as a whole a WAR will do more damage than a BST (From experience. Show me otherwise and I'll retract that point). Therefore it is more useful, as it saves time (mob dies faster). Time is a commodity as much as anything else; by taking less time to kill NM 1, you get to NM 2 faster and probably kill it faster too.

My point here is yes, I'd like to be able to use the lesser jobs once in a while for EG and stuff. Unfortunately, that's not where their place is right now.

Back on topic, I'd like to say that I disagree about lowering BST's PDT cap. Again that's partially biased because I have BST leveled; I don't have a completed PDT set yet (working on the axes, got the rest) but it's a nice goal. The reason behind it is that it gives BST a niche they didn't have before; they're able to solo physical mobs with less difficulty. Sure it takes longer, but if you can't find another target/farm TEs or at very least offer them a hand to speed it along and give them their drops, then the problem lies with you. :|

[GlobalVariable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oKh0yEGC2M

Thats CUIJATENDER near the start of that vid. Yes thats empy gear. Do you think that its ok because the gear isn't easy cheap AH gear? I'll even ignore all the whining thats been done about how easy it is to get empy gear completed and pretend its rare and hard to attain. Is it broken? I don't really thinks so.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You're kidding, right? You read my earlier posts in their entirety, right? There is a difference between "Okay, we need you on WAR to fill out our Reds" and "Pfft Bst sucks u suck get on war lol noob".

Refusing to play an important role as part of a coherent group just because you want to do things your own way is an absolute crap attitude. Period.

If you care more about yourself than the group, that's fine. Don't be part of my group. I'm not taking your money and selling your house when I break your pearl. I am removing you from the group that you obviously can't work with. For the record, I let shellmates come on Blu, Pup, Smn, and whatever other crap all the time because, as I mentioned like 3 posts ago, whenever the basics are set I'll straight up tell someone I don't give a crap what they come on.

Pet jobs need to get over their victim complex. It's annoying, and to the rest of the game is a far bigger reason to avoid you than the job itself could ever be.

Edit: @Korpg, That's exactly what I said <_<. Someone whines and bitches about coming Bst when we need XXX, I kick them. I don't whine when people take an hour to kill shit, I just do other things. But I won't say it isn't annoying as all hell. It's nothing short of incompetent to fight something for that long.No, this is all exceedingly selfish of you. Players have the right to play what jobs they want and how they want. Not "my way or the highway."

[Greatguardian]

No, this is all exceedingly selfish of you. Players have the right to play what jobs they want and how they want. Not "my way or the highway."

From over here, it looks a lot more like you saying "It's my way or the highway". The individual who refuses to do anything but what they want to do is selfish. The group in which everyone makes a small "sacrifice" in order to bring about the greater good for the whole is not selfish. I quote that because ideally, and typically among most mature players, playing a different job isn't a "sacrifice". It's just playing a different job.

Want an example that doesn't involve jobs? Okay:

Group A has 6 members, each with 1 job. Group A wants to treat its members fairly, but NMs in Abyssea only drop 4 different job seals at a time. No problem, Group A decides to rotate monsters / Complete 1 piece each / etc. Everyone is happy except Player A.

Player A is the Beastmaster. Player A refuses to hunt any NMs that don't drop Beastmaster seals.

Group A wonders why Player A won't just fight the NMs that drop other seals for them when they are all okay fighting the NM that drops Beastmaster seals for him.

Player A insists that it is their right to play what they want, and insists that the White Mage is selfish for making him fight monsters that drop White Mage seals and not Beastmaster seals.

I fail to see the difference between what you and Cy are saying and the situation I just described.

Edit: For the sake of the "Fun" argument, assume in the situation above that the White Mage seal NM is really annoying and hard but the Beastmaster seal NM is super easy.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The people who force people to play the way they want and no other are wrong.
You're example is not what people are talking about and is completely unrealistic.

[Greatguardian]

The people who force people to play the way they want and no other are wrong.
You're example is not what people are talking about and is completely unrealistic.

5 solo players in a party is not the same as a party of 5 players.

Though I am starting to understand how it is that people can sit on these forums all day complaining about being unable to do content that, at most, requires one other person who they can work with cooperatively.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Or you could let the BST do it's job in the PT. lol

[Cyranda]

Teamwork is not a bunch of people saying "Me Me Me" in unison. It's everyone saying "We We We".

It'd be good for you to remind yourself of that because you don't appear to be very cognizant of it, despite your high opinion of yourself; you say it, but the understanding doesn't appear to be there.

That you would consider it "petty" for someone to want to play a job she likes, or a "brat" for not wanting to come on a job she dislikes enough not to want to go in a game she plays for fun is absolutely ludicrous and DOES mark you as a jerk. A "laid back" guy wouldn't insist people do things he knows they don't like or even think about doing so to a hypothetical person because, quite frankly, that's just not what laid back people do. A high-strung, controlling person who thinks he or she is laid back might. Such a person might even crush the pearl of their fulltime BST, too, for having the audacity to want to play the job she leveled up for that purpose.

Teamwork is not just a bunch of people in unison shouting "We We We" with an objective to reach a certain goal at the expense of some of the people on the team. That's called work, with a generous helping of terrible leadership. Teamwork, especially in a game, is a bunch of people working to maximize each others' fun, and that means respecting people who can help, even if it's not at some theoretical maximum, rather than just arbitrarily trying to dump a sacrifice on them and calling it "selfish" when they don't accept it. That person who wants to come on BST (which can still help the group) because logging on to his WHM bores him to the point where he'd rather log off is not "petty" or "bratty" for wanting to enjoy playing the game. That's what the BST is offering the group. The team that insists that he do so, knowing full well that he doesn't like it is being bratty, controlling and ANYTHING but laid back. If that BST not coming on WHM meant the event not going, a "laid back" team that cared about its members (or even friends!) would realize they didn't have enough people and ALL make the sacrifice not to go or find a way to make it happen and bring that BST with them rather than trying to pin the blame on the guy and get angry enough to break his pearl. They'd realize they just didn't have the resources instead of trying to take the faux moral high road and try to force someone to do something they dislike or else kick/leave.


The goal is for everyone to be successful.

Oh, is THAT the goal? I always thought it was for everyone to be successful WHILE HAVING FUN, but then...


I spent years playing White Mage for my linkshell just so other people didn't have to because I'm not a brat.

I guess not, though really, you must not have disliked it very much or had fun in some other way, but that's not really the point. Even if it were, walking across a sheet of broken glass and then expecting other people to do so again speaks to how ludicrous that notion is (you know, because walking on broken glass sucks and no one should).

[Greatguardian]

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

[Cyranda]

"Hey guys I see you have a party of a beastmaster, a ranger, a corsair, and a dark knight. Mind if I come Samurai? You do?

WELL YOU'RE SELFISH THEN GOSH JUST LET ME DO MY JOB IN THE PARTY."

And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

[Greatguardian]

And that completely misses the point. If that's what you think people are arguing, you've jumped on a red herring and swam a world away.

It doesn't miss anything. In that situation, if healing power is needed, someone is going to need to come White Mage (or something else that can heal). If all of the players there are insistent upon them only being able to have fun on the jobs they are on, they will have no healer.

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

[Kensagaku]

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

[Cyranda]

Your entitlement absolutely relies on the good graces of other players. If everyone is selfish and only plays one of their jobs, no one will get anywhere. If, out of your group of 20-odd 1-job players, only one of them likes White Mage at all, you're in trouble. If that person decides one day that White Mage is no longer fun, your group of 20 no longer has a single healer among them. Have fun with that.

I'd much rather that person have fun, especially if she is my friend, and continue playing instead of burning out and quitting or forcing her to do something she doesn't like. Even if we decided to find a WHM to go too, I wouldn't kick that person, nor would I demand or be angry with her for making that decision. It's certainly not selfish of her. I mean, do you tell a person who donates money to charity every year that the one year he doesn't donate because he ran out of money that he's selfish? Hell no. That would be disrespectful to the time he'd already donated, or in this case, kicking the person would be disrespectful to the time she'd already spent AND the help she can still bring outside the role of WHM simply because she'd ran out of patience (or the idea that it was fun) to play WHM. Even if the person had always been a BST, despite being a "lesser job" as it was oh so recently put, they're still bringing something, even if it's just help killing the monster faster, taking care of adds, holding things when people die, etc.

[Seriha]

Hoping for the occasional "I don't give a crap what you come on..." moments isn't exactly a reassuring sentiment for anyone. Why bother gearing a job you'll never get to play in a non-EXP environment because, sadly, it's doomed from the start due to lack of procs in today's low-man world? Saying something like, "Just make your own party, then!" doesn't automatically make those sentiments go away, and in part, devalues the purpose of a linkshell if they're too hardheaded to ever accommodate a frustrated player. It reminds me of the "support job curse" where anyone who ever leveled BRD or RDM back in the day was usually stuck on those jobs unless they did something drastic like drop/sell all their gear or quit a shell and basically forfeit any points or standing they had.

[Cyranda]

It does sound what you're arguing though. You're arguing to bring something that may not be needed, when something else could be more useful or actually needed. Let me throw in another example to augment this:

You have a party with no healer at the moment. The only person with a healing job (though most people have one by now, this is just an example) is the BST. However, said BST doesn't like playing WHM, and wants to play BST. Should they be allowed to just go BST, and have the party go without a healer? Or should that person suck it up 'cause it would be beneficial to the group to have that healer rather than going the way they want?

Sometimes doing only what you want isn't the most efficient or useful answer. :|

Edit: GG took my WHM example sorta.

I don't know that anyone is arguing about absolutely essential roles here, otherwise they'd be talking about any DD or tank and not just pet jobs. My focus, for certain, is more on the propensity of people to resist taking BST and other jobs when they can be helpful and can still function, even if it's a reduced rate (the all or nothing approach, or the insulting "we'll take you as a second rate" character sort of thing). I suppose it shouldn't surprise me too much that someone might have taken it to an extreme and assumed I meant that you should have a party entirely of rangers trying to fight something immune to ranged attack, but these are internet forums, so there is that.

[Heady]

Cool keep derailing this garbage thread. Bst's (and pup's from what I hear) are "Working as intended". No need to adjust unless it truly was an oversight.

[Cyranda]

Hoping for the occasional "I don't give a crap what you come on..." moments isn't exactly a reassuring sentiment for anyone. Why bother gearing a job you'll never get to play in a non-EXP environment because, sadly, it's doomed from the start due to lack of procs in today's low-man world? Saying something like, "Just make your own party, then!" doesn't automatically make those sentiments go away, and in part, devalues the purpose of a linkshell if they're too hardheaded to ever accommodate a frustrated player. It reminds me of the "support job curse" where anyone who ever leveled BRD or RDM back in the day was usually stuck on those jobs unless they did something drastic like drop/sell all their gear or quit a shell and basically forfeit any points or standing they had.

Sometimes I wish I could say something like this rather than dipping into the sarcastic or frustrated. Very eloquent. :)

[Greatguardian]

I'd much rather that person have fun, especially if she is my friend, and continue playing instead of burning out and quitting or forcing her to do something she doesn't like. Even if we decided to find a WHM to go too, I wouldn't kick that person, nor would I demand or be angry with her for making that decision. It's certainly not selfish of her. I mean, do you tell a person who donates money to charity every year that the one year he doesn't donate because he ran out of money that he's selfish? Hell no. That would be disrespectful to the time he'd already donated, or in this case, kicking the person would be disrespectful to the time she'd already spent AND the help she can still bring outside the role of WHM simply because she'd ran out of patience (or the idea that it was fun) to play WHM. Even if the person had always been a BST, despite being a "lesser job" as it was oh so recently put, they're still bringing something, even if it's just help killing the monster faster, taking care of adds, holding things when people die, etc.

You pretty much keep sidestepping the point. I must look the same to you. Fact of the matter is, I think your attitude stinks. You probably think mine does too.

But you know what? With my attitude, I get things done in FFXI. I come on whatever job I'm needed, or whatever job is best suited for the task at hand, and my versatility makes me a valuable asset to the people around me. I have friends, whom I've completed multiple Empyrean Weapons and Armor sets with, and whom I don't even raise objections around when they occasionally (key word) come Paladin or Blue mage instead of Ninja or Bard. I have a sack in an incredibly successful NA Endgame shell. I've killed everything in the entire game short of Pandy Warden and content that came out yesterday, and I had fun doing it.

Meanwhile, with your attitude, you're steeped in bitterness and hatred towards Endgame linkshells and players. I don't know what your current situation is, but it's obvious you hate anyone who "forces" you to come on anything but Beastmaster. By limiting your usefulness to a group, you lower your appeal to linkshells who can actually complete content. I can't assume too much, but it's fairly obvious you're not happy.

Edit:

I don't know that anyone is arguing about absolutely essential roles here, otherwise they'd be talking about any DD or tank and not just pet jobs. My focus, for certain, is more on the propensity of people to resist taking BST and other jobs when they can be helpful and can still function, even if it's a reduced rate (the all or nothing approach, or the insulting "we'll take you as a second rate" character sort of thing). I suppose it shouldn't surprise me too much that someone might have taken it to an extreme and assumed I meant that you should have a party entirely of rangers trying to fight something immune to ranged attack, but these are internet forums, so there is that.

Considering I have no natural bias against Beastmaster, Yes, I did implicitly apply all of my arguments to any DD, Tank, or Mage job in the game. I don't care if it's BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, or freaking MNK. If someone refuses to come on something vital because they want to play la dee freaking da Anonymous Job A, they have a horrible attitude.

[Ilax]

Oh ya because taking 0 DMG from 60,000 needle is 'working as intended'. Ya right, as it been said in early post, even Ochain that is imo super broken too, you still take DMG bc #1 is not 100% block rate and #2 is not 100% dmg reduction.

If you can't find how is not right, i am sorry but i can't help you there.

[Cyranda]

Considering I have no natural bias against Beastmaster, Yes, I did implicitly apply all of my arguments to any DD, Tank, or Mage job in the game. I don't care if it's BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, or freaking MNK. If someone refuses to come on something vital because they want to play la dee freaking da Anonymous Job A, they have a horrible attitude.

Wanting to have fun is a horrible attitude? You'd prefer they burn out and quit? How ridiculous and controlling.

[Greatguardian]

Wanting to have fun is a horrible attitude? You'd prefer they burn out and quit? How ridiculous and controlling.

Personally I'd question the maturity of anyone who is "only able to have fun at all" on a handful of jobs. In principle, it's completely beside the point.

You act like it's always the same person being told to "Get on BRD instead of BST" every hour of every day. Probably because you're bitter and have an overdeveloped victim complex forged from years of playing with crappy linkshells and absorbing the hate and malice of everyone who got rejected from an Endgame shell for only having pet jobs.

Hint: It's not, and has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. Player A only being allowed to come unfun job A for months at a time is not the same as Player A refusing to come anything but unnecessary job B when the group needs vital job C in an instance.

[Seriha]

I guess what should be said is there's a fine line between being versatile and a doormat. Some might be content with the latter as it eventually leads them to the shinies, but everyone has varying levels of tolerance and outright demanding people to forgo all personal greed "for the good of the team" is a bit much since not everyone's skill or play time is equal. It just stings all the more when you start picking up on favoritism or start feeling ignored when you have things you'd like to accomplish that do require others.

Regardless, feeling shunned or whatever isn't really justification to make the lives of other players miserable with excruciatingly slow solos or other grief tactics. Ideally, they should offer to help and not steal your stuff, but I don't blame those who refuse aid because of that risk. On the other end, damning these players BECAUSE they can do stuff like that doesn't really help them, either. I've long been of the stance that the means of extreme solos should've been curbed long ago, and in the case of pet immunity, this is just new rung in that ladder. It should be addressed, but not in the, "Give us this in return!" manner of false compromise. Ignoring why certain jobs are left out or unpopular should always be a priority, and I can't help but feel like it's something SE hasn't done a good job of over the years, perhaps in part due to the community bandwagon.

[Cyranda]

Personally I'd question the maturity of anyone who is "only able to have fun at all" on a handful of jobs. In principle, it's completely beside the point.

You act like it's always the same person being told to "Get on BRD instead of BST" every hour of every day. Probably because you're bitter and have an overdeveloped victim complex forged from years of playing with crappy linkshells and absorbing the hate and malice of everyone who got rejected from an Endgame shell for only having pet jobs.

The fact that you're trying to assume a psychological complex about someone to justify your point is amusing. People are pretty good arbiters of what they like and don't like. Many people get burned out, and it's not a "lack of maturity" that makes them do so. That's some awful justification on your part.


Hint: It's not, and has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. Player A only being allowed to come unfun job A for months at a time is not the same as Player A refusing to come anything but unnecessary job B when the group needs vital job C in an instance.

The hell it isn't. If someone wants to play on their BST, PUP or whatever they've leveled up and YOU KNOW they hate another job, your asking them to come on it would be not only a slap to them, but a pretty good indicator of how uncaring and controlling you are. If you're fine with that, though, just own up to it. Quit trying to blame your lack of compassion on them or trying to pin them with some complex.

[Swords]

I don't think 100% Pdt is too bad considering that BST IS a solo job, and it typically is not invited for parties besides pet tanking. Besides theres still plenty out there that can kill a pet with 100% Pdt, namely magic casters and anything that can use Doom or Death type moves like Bukkis, and Poison can absoluetely wreck a pet.

[ShadowHeart]

i just have to say is unless you played beast/ smn / pup before fov abyseaa or level sync.... you would know that only way you would level is months and months and months of solo'ing i know i did it myself >< because sorry people but summoner is not a healer .... so i solo'd i dont mind buffing but smn is a dd to me
when level sync and fov were introduced this was a god send to the solo'ers because beast pup still didnt get any job invites and now they finally get thrown a bone so they can actually go out and get the gear they need because no one will invite them to a group ( THEY HAVE NO PROC"S ) so they are not wanted in pug's unless they start their own

-100% damage PDT fine ur still taking 30-40 even 60+ minutes to solo an NM where most jobs nin dnc thief can solo rape the mobs in 1/10th of the time and have procs so better chance at drop rates so learn the job and maybe u can respect the only chance they have in abyssea because really when is the last tiem u invited one of them to party with you outside abyssea never mind inside other then maybe a smn's 2 hour because chests make them re useable quicker lol

sounds like ur jus tupset someone had ur mob u wanted to fight would of cried just as bad if ninja or dnc or thief soling IMO

[Dallas]

Except blocking with shield is not 100% reduction so you still take damage so that's irrelevant. Try again.

That PLD can do things that a -100% PDT BST cannot do. If BST is broken, so is that PLD. It all depends on who the whiner is and how loud they whine.

[Behemuthxero]

Understand why SMN alone got nerfed: SMN was able to reach -100% PDT with no gear, instantaneously, on a pet that was already near immune to one element. They were able to do it with a single Atma, using the other 2 for DD. For a few weeks, I walked Abyssea as a god.

BST need multiple atma, lots of gear (including a pair of magian trial axes and mini-expansion hat), and still need to use food on a pet that can't be called out every 30 seconds like avatars. BST make tons of sacrifices to tank.

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios. That doesn't mean that BST can't find their niche. The OP was stuck behind a niche fight. Had the OP the slightest interest in a solution, he would have invited the BST into his alliance, killed the NM for him, and let the BST keep what he wanted. 60 minutes drops to 5 minutes, and hours of complaining on forums would disappear.

Sincerly,
The first -100pdt'er


This^

First of all it's not Abyssea-QQ... it wasn't made for YOU. It was made for everyone...if you can't handle that go play instanced WoW...Secondly, there are a lot more pet curing items now that don't use the reward timer. BST can hold anything forever no matter the PDT. Any magic spamming mobs will destroy bst pets when a bst is solo, and a blanket statement of "OMGWTFBBQ they are invincible!" is hardly warranted.

Should the bst be doing this in a timed zone while ppl are waiting for it? no. Should ppl with nothing better to do just watch and not offer to help like selfish little brats? NO.

All removing bst PDT is going to do, honestly, is make BSTs run mobs over to the cruor prospector where they can spam healing salve I the entire fight. Or they will spam the bastions and kite true AoE mobs to the bastion NPC for healing salve II. The issue really is that BST was impossible to kill, when played right, before the PDT. SE probably just gave the 100% cap so mobs wouldn't be dragged all over the zone killing ppl while BSTs killed high lvl mobs the "old school" way.

The real issue here is that you went QQ because you couldn't fight YOUR mob when you wanted to and you were completely unwilling to help someone else out with YOUR mob during YOUR time with it. Here is a crazy idea, join the BST and have them get DD atmas and show you all how they out damage every single other class in the game.

[Greatguardian]

What is with this ridiculous trend of "If someone else is incompetent and takes an hour to kill Gukumatz, why don't you kill it for them and give them the drops?"

If I'm proc'ing and killing an NM for you because you're unable to handle getting it dead before King Arthro would've raged, don't expect to "have claim" over anything it drops.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

There's too much, I don't want people to have it because I can't have it mantality in this thread. lol

[Behemuthxero]

Then don't expect to "have claim" over the mob while BST tries....

[GlobalVariable]

If I'm proc'ing and killing an NM for you because you're unable to handle getting it dead before King Arthro would've raged, don't expect to "have claim" over anything it drops.Bear in mind holding is pretty much why rage mode exists and no amount of -pdt should stop a raged NM from handing you your rear. I happen to think they really should patch rage to make raged mobs even worse on people.

[Greatguardian]

Bear in mind holding is pretty much why rage mode exists and no amount of -pdt should stop a raged NM from handing you your rear. I happen to think they really should patch rage to make raged mobs even worse on people.

I agree wholeheartedly. Honestly, nothing in Abyssea should be taking more than half an hour anyways. We're long past the days of full alliance 60 minute Fafnirs. A 30 minute kill-mode rage timer would be awesome, and it would keep Bst/Pup's toy intact.

[Malamasala]

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

Well, over 20% haste is stupid. SE just loves giving people game breaking options.

[Arcon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oKh0yEGC2M

Thats CUIJATENDER near the start of that vid. Yes thats empy gear. Do you think that its ok because the gear isn't easy cheap AH gear? I'll even ignore all the whining thats been done about how easy it is to get empy gear completed and pretend its rare and hard to attain. Is it broken? I don't really thinks so.

That's argueable, however, and it's an entirely new topic on its own. At 75, relics were a lot better than other weapons (well, some), but they were still reasonable. I've out damaged quite a few Apoc DRKs who simply weren't good players (and, well, DRKs). But this is different. Ochain, especially, brings PLD to a whole new level, something that others can't possibly keep up with. Even among Empyrean gear it stands out as most broken imo. As I said, that's subjective now, but in my eyes it is broken and shouldn't be this good.


If you want to gimp one set of jobs, gimp them all, gimp them all the way back to 75 levels!

There's an imbalance in your premise. You claim we want to gimp one set of jobs more than others, but that is false. Right now, one set of jobs has a very high and unfair advantage over others, and we simply want that be evened out. And, in fact, not even that, we only asked for lower PDT cap, I wouldn't mind if it's still higher than the player cap.

And while I hate supporting derailed threads, I feel I need to contribute to the current (or, by now, previous) topic.

I always want people to come on jobs they like. The problem is, it doesn't work. I was leading several events, and as a leader it is your responsibility to make it work, somehow. Now, it's hard enough to find people to do Dynamis with, at one point we had only five people. And before people start going "But it's easy to trio Dyna these days!" bear in mind that only applies if you have a working trio combination. If you have four people who all want to come as damage dealers, what can you do? Will you just accept the fact that you have an inefficient setup (and by inefficient I mean dead in three minutes), or will you ask someone to come on a healing job?

This is a very realistic example, it happened to me more than once. Any social system, no matter what context, must have the priorities of the group in mind and find a balance with the priorities of each person. Do you like paying taxes? Of course not, but that money is necessary to keep the country going, and it benefits every individual. And yes, that example does relate, because it's the same thing, it's a social system with its own rules, that balances the wishes of individual persons against the wishes of the entire group. The leaders of a country don't think it's fun to take that money, but they know it's necessary. That's why finding the right balance is a pain, and no matter what you do, people will complain.

So question to you, what would you do if you only had five people for an event, two of which had healers, but didn't wanna play it (and disregard the fact that you'd still like a BLM)? I would seriously like to know. Shout for a healer who has to share his drops with five other people? They'll probably think it's a waste of time, unless you exclude some of your own people again, and the drama starts anew.

Another question to you, when you're asked to come on a specific job, will you do it? It sounds to me like you're trying to justify your own attitude. You say it's selfish if I want someone to come on a certain job, because it would fit into my plans. Well, those plans are for the benefit of everyone in the group (including you). Is that still selfish? Where do we draw the line, would you call someone selfish for jumping in front of someone else to take a bullet, because they didn't want the other person to get hurt, so it was just in his own interest? While it would certainly make sense, it would strip the word "selfish" of any relevant meaning, because every action anyone ever does would be selfish then.

The problem is quite simple, the wishes of a single person don't always benefit the group. If there's a way to work around it, by all means, but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. And if you still refuse to come on a certain job, then yes, I call that selfish.

[Malamasala]

Even at -87.5% pdt, SMN tank better than BST in several scenarios.

I must also point out that even with -50% natural resisst, any VT mob will kill your pet before you kill them (sans using sleep to stop their tracks). Avatars are surprisingly fragile due to pretty poor defense ratings and around 1k HP.

[GlobalVariable]

That's argueable, however, and it's an entirely new topic on its ownIt was a response to something someone else said. I didn't feel a need to quote them since typed it up right after. I don't even remember what it was now.

[Khajit]

IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

[Arcon]

IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

Show me the logic please, I'll show you its flaws.

[Zaknafein]

This thread needs the whaaambulance.....

[GlobalVariable]

Please hold off before defending long zombie whittling tactics in the same thread griping that pet soloes take to long, I need time to make popcorn.

[Runespider]

IF bst loses thier 100% pdt then logically the same argument means apoc atma should have reraise removed from it.

Not even close to the same thing, if people are zombying the mob it can easily be taken by someone else and even with RR spam they can still easily lose. Hard to lose with a mob where your pet has -100% pdt and -50+ mdt, huge heals with pet food and a 4-5 mins respawn on the pet.

[Aldersyde]

@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

If you did, I really have no sympathy. When my ls goes into abyssea with a plan and there's people already fighting the nm we planned on fighting, we go somewhere else. You wasted your own time waiting around for what you probably hoped would be a free nm if the bst died (and let's face it, you probably did think the bst was going to die). If you don't have a plan b or c or q, that's your own fault.

Sure, high pet pdt- may seem ridiculous, but the whole premise of abyssea seems to based on doing broken, ridiculous things. The most ridiculous thing about abyssea? The fact that there's 9 friggin zones filled with natural mobs and not one is charmable. Bst's natural ability is completely useless in 9 friggin zones. But i guess if even if we did have our natural ability in abyssea, you would steal the mob on a pet swap or complain in here if there was a party of bsts continually tossing pets at it.

Honestly, you don't even need DG to kill most things in abyssea if you're a bst. DG is the poor man's route. If you can continuously supply yourself with dippers, have 2 pet eva axes and eva atams, you can pull off a lot of the same stuff with mounted champion and pet food. The same dangers apply: DOT and casters. If you ran into a bst taking out an nm this way, would you be calling for a nerf too?

So much hate on bsts here. I believe it's horribly inefficient to solo nms without procs if you're actually wanting seals and I've sat through dncs, nins, and thfs do this. It sucks sitting on the sidelines waiting. I'm not one to call for a nerf against other jobs, but seriously, in zones where characters are practically godlike, if you take this away from bst and pup ( i guess, never seen the soling you're talking about but if its whm puppet and a pup meleeing how is this different than whm and mnk?), its only fair you give all these nms capped acc so evasion jobs can't solo them either. Let me clear, I don't want any job to be nerfed but if you're going to ban one job from the playground, you may as well ban everyone.

[Ilax]

And why again ppl find that logical a BST get -100% PDT and not other job? Because you think other job would not like tell everyone f... .u i wan solo too? No other job able to do -100% PDT and right there is FAIL, so what the next logical plan, everyone level BST and get -100% PDT setup and hold every NM in the game.

Be serious, this is a major glitch that SE have to issue ASAP, my friend already finished his PDT -100% tonight, and he already holding NM just for fun (Because hey! he can now, so why not?) You know what he told me, AXE took him a big 3 day, head took him 1 day, so ya in 1 week max you can get your -100% PDT.

Some people here just can't face the fact that is broken, i don't care about the JOB, stop QQ about the job suppose to be like that because yet that another BS, there more job then BST that don't fit well in abyssea.

on side note, all my job are 90 and they all full merited, i have savior atma, mandau and masa. So you think a stupid 3 day long investment for a -100% PDT scare me up? ok ya... [they was all 75 PRE-Abyssea, sorry for flamer i am not one of those Abyssea-leecher that pretend to know everything in game]

And yes if i say that is because it frustrate me how a wannabe BST come in front of alliance and hold a NM for 60 min long careless about time wasting, and also make me rage more when i see people here argue how all this is 'suppose to be right'. And you all know this issue is just going to increase every day...

I saw many nin and dnc solo, i never said a word about it, and is simple why... They actually working hard to be able to do it, and is not such of 100% win + they do not take 1h to 1h30 to kill NM. I remember to see a nin/thf solo Benu, he was using temp item etc, i was amazed not shocked, also note he took 35 min to kill, again not 60~90 min long watching a stupid pet get hit by 0 all night.


@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

We did not need anything else, 6 member needed that Scorpion, and i can't do anything about that, of course i could just tell everyone, sorry let call it tonight, there a BST taking his sweet time to solo a NM for 1 stone, is that answer work for you?

There situation sometime like that where you can't do anything else...

[Runespider]

@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

If you did, I really have no sympathy. When my ls goes into abyssea with a plan and there's people already fighting the nm we planned on fighting, we go somewhere else. You wasted your own time waiting around for what you probably hoped would be a free nm if the bst died (and let's face it, you probably did think the bst was going to die). If you don't have a plan b or c or q, that's your own fault.

Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

[Ilax]

Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

exactly what i mean to say.

[Seriha]

Evasion caps and mob TP moves can easily have higher innate ACC. That's a problem even Yuly would face, but THFs or NINs can't exactly pull 1000+ cures out of their butt for sustained durations and even DNC's option comes at a price. If they die, that's it. There's no running around until timer's ready or just popping a new jug and Snarling away your enmity. The concept of disposable pets has always been problematic in this manner, even as far back as Carby kiting. With no true penalty toward the master for a pet death, you eventually get scenarios like this popping up since they gain more freedom to screw around and find things that work. Of course, even if BSTs lost some EXP each time they let a pet die, it doesn't solve this particular issue. Allowing Charm in Abyssea would just allow anyone to go hog wild regardless of a mob's strengths if you can get it to the right camp, and we'd undoubtedly see the resurgence of QQ over how every other job that subs BST performs better than the main. A 50-60% cap is the simplest and fairest solution.

As for zombie tactics, that's a pretty easy fix. DoTs no longer do damage if double weak, progressive deaths after 2 add a growing delay to the reraise prompt (15/30/45s) and dying 5 times if weak instantly HPs the victim.


Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

If you search a zone and see 150+ people, there's a good chance most mobs are taken if you consider most groups are 2-6 people. Anyone who thinks you can just magically move on to a Plan B and have no hiccup is either trying too hard to defend this exploit or is a very lucky person. Nevermind the fact a Plan B does no good if your target mob is the sole source of something.


Anyway, part of this congestion issue should hopefully be diminished if the mentioned additional ??? pops means you could spawn multiple NMs.

[Aldersyde]

Did your six people need a Soulscourge or a thunder belt? Because those are the only items that that hedjetjet drops that no other mob drops. It doesn't even drop a key item. Heck, Bennu drops a card (If you're lucky! I do know this pain) and Orthus can potentially drop more jewels. Wow, i just looked at ffxi wiki and scars zones drop them too!

The point is, there was other options than standing around watching someone fight a mob. There was plenty you could have done besides waiting for someone to die so you could gank his mob. Blame your leader for wasting your time and if you're the leader, well, read the wiki and get informed. Then you'll know, and knowings half the battle.

I get it, you hate bsts. but you know what? Other jobs can do a lot more fantastical things in abyssea besides slowly whittling down a mob. I guess when it benefits you, "exploits" are a-ok!

[Aldersyde]

Quite a lot of people make PUG now you know? If you spent an hour forming a PUG and go there you can hardly go do something else, you either wait or disband.

I'm not trying to be a wad here, but unless they were specifically going for a soulscourge or thunderbelt, there's other mobs that drop the items they were going for. Showing up in a zone hoping that the influence is there for the scorp to even pop is really just poor planning in the first place. I can see an ls or group of friends saying "Hey, let's go out to abyssea for a lark and see if a free roaming nm is up instead of buying/building the popsets that we know will pop an nm we know will drop stuff we need" but I don't see a group of random strangers agreeing to that premise.

Then again, maybe I dunno. I usually don't do PUG. I have an ls and close friends I do abyssea with.

Seems to me, OP is changing their story to whatever they feel like as they go along.

[Ilax]

You guy just love derail it, my post was clearly talking about 2 thing...

-100% PDT + holding NM.

I would hate as much PLD if it was the job that get -100% PDT, Sorry but stop get me wrong.

[Aldersyde]

You guy just love derail it, my post was clearly talking about 2 thing...

-100% PDT + holding NM.

I would hate as much PLD if it was the job that get -100% PDT, Sorry but stop get me wrong.

I'm not derailing it. You told me what you thought was bs: pets pdt being 100%; and i told you what I thought was bs: your ls or friends or whatever the heck they were standing around for a mob to die instead of doing something productive. I further added that I thought it was bs that bsts can't use their natural ability to charm in abyssea but this is a discussion forum and discussion forums occasionally involve other people voicing their opinions.

This isn't even about bst or pdt. You ran into someone who was totally inconsiderate and that person could have been on any job but you decided to slander bsts as altogether plain-bad people that you'll never invite to a party. The reason you're getting so many "derails" is that bsts have a pretty tight knit identity around the job and you've stirred up a hornet's nest.

[Vold]

And why again ppl find that logical a BST get -100% PDT and not other job? Because you think other job would not like tell everyone f... .u i wan solo too? No other job able to do -100% PDT and right there is FAIL, so what the next logical plan, everyone level BST and get -100% PDT setup and hold every NM in the game.

Be serious, this is a major glitch that SE have to issue ASAP, my friend already finished his PDT -100% tonight, and he already holding NM just for fun (Because hey! he can now, so why not?) You know what he told me, AXE took him a big 3 day, head took him 1 day, so ya in 1 week max you can get your -100% PDT.

Some people here just can't face the fact that is broken, i don't care about the JOB, stop QQ about the job suppose to be like that because yet that another BS, there more job then BST that don't fit well in abyssea.

on side note, all my job are 90 and they all full merited, i have savior atma, mandau and masa. So you think a stupid 3 day long investment for a -100% PDT scare me up? ok ya... [they was all 75 PRE-Abyssea, sorry for flamer i am not one of those Abyssea-leecher that pretend to know everything in game]

And yes if i say that is because it frustrate me how a wannabe BST come in front of alliance and hold a NM for 60 min long careless about time wasting, and also make me rage more when i see people here argue how all this is 'suppose to be right'. And you all know this issue is just going to increase every day...

I saw many nin and dnc solo, i never said a word about it, and is simple why... They actually working hard to be able to do it, and is not such of 100% win + they do not take 1h to 1h30 to kill NM. I remember to see a nin/thf solo Benu, he was using temp item etc, i was amazed not shocked, also note he took 35 min to kill, again not 60~90 min long watching a stupid pet get hit by 0 all night.



We did not need anything else, 6 member needed that Scorpion, and i can't do anything about that, of course i could just tell everyone, sorry let call it tonight, there a BST taking his sweet time to solo a NM for 1 stone, is that answer work for you?

There situation sometime like that where you can't do anything else...
So you want them to nerf BST pet PDT, which btw is just about impossible to do without nerfing atmas that benefit every other job with it's -dt and gear that was fairly earned, because you came across one person on BST? You know how many BST I've come across while in Abyssea NM hunting that blocked me? Zero. It has never happened. Right. Let's nerf BST because they can use their pet pdt and mdt abilities to their full advantage, not because they are and flooding Abyssea, blocking the rest of the FFXI population. Makes all the sense in the world to me. I stand corrected.

The only person QQing in this thread is you because your feelings were hurt once in one years time by a mean BST who dared to put his new found pdt 100% to use and possibly PUP. I assume that statement is accurate because you haven't made the post before now. Yeah. Nerf BST. Nerf PUP too they're pets are too strong too. Let's nerf refresh atmas to boot. They make Abyssea too easy as people never /heal anymore for MP. It makes melee + WHM possible and you see them everywhere holding up groups with their dumb duos. Don't forget to nerf MNK atmas. Nerf DNC, THF, and NIN to boot. Let's just nerf everything so no one can do anything solo-trio anymore. Groups now count as 4+ for azure proc purposes and onward. And if your mini group dares get in the way of an alliance you need to move aside and let them take care of business, or else. No more blocking larger groups. It's the law.

If BST gets the nerf bat then there's a number of other things that should get the nerf bat too if the nerfs are solely meant to put a stop to slowing down the progress of another person. It's not fair to cry nerf on one job all the while you are enjoying the benefits of buffs intended for your job that you would absolutely cry foul over if it were nerfed. Refresh, crit dmg, crit hit rates, all the bells and whistles that permit all the solo and duo that goes down in Abyssea on even the hardest of monsters. SE has accepted that BST and probably PUP is pretty much stuck as solo jobs and they have made an effort to treat them as such with pdt and mdt set ups for pets.(nevermind that if BST could charm in Abyssea that they'd basically be just as invincible as they are right now except people could steal NM from them, and maybe that's why you can't charm in there to begin with and was intended to stop theft which BST have complained about since forever, and call beast got the boosts it did)

Now, maybe it's not fair for a BST to basically be invincible but really, come on. Just because you take damage doesn't make you any less invincible. I can duo Catu mobs... on my WAR, with a WHM. Yeah. Takes two characters but so what. I'm still invincible 99% of the time as war + whm, cheap crap aside. So I have no problem whatsoever with a BST being 100% invincible. Good deal for BST, but I would never bother in a million years to take a hour to kill anything. That's probably why BSTs typically choose more friendly group jobs to do their Abyssea business. They have to be because they darn sure aren't flooding Abyssea holding everyone up on their BST. They like high drop rates, too.

In short, just please suck it up. You have to learn to take the bad with the good. If you were truly bothered by an invincible BST then I might see your point but it's very clear that you are bothered by being held up for a hour and are 100% okay with SE completely destroying BST only saving grace in Abyssea, over a handful of incidents IF that many. Sounds pretty selfish to me. I wonder what your friend thinks of that after going through the trouble of 100% PDT for their pet.

You are asking for balance in a zone that is anything but balanced. This was a lost cause before you clicked on the post box.

[Aleste]

2c:

I feel that having 100% PDT is broken as no-job should have complete immunity from enemy attacks. SMN had it for a while in abyssea and it got nerfed. Why should this be any different? is it because there is a little bit of gear involved?

If it got nerfed down to normal standards, the only thing that would change is Beastmasters would have to pair (or treble) up to fight the NM's. Hey presto, suddenly the mob dies twice (three times) as quickly.

~Writing this as I run past a pair of summoners in vunkerl duoing Ironclad with leviathan; Props to them

[ShadowHeart]

they can just make the mobs inside abyssea charmable and then beasts can just charm all the xp mobs and throw them at the nm for 2 hours instead of 1 maybe this make you happier ?
you forget beasts do not get all the benefits and tools they do outside so a little help never hurt them
and i don't have no 100PDT set up or even close but crying because u have to wait for a mob lol you never been c*ck blocked by a ls farming an NM yet have you

[Ilax]

Again you got me wrong, idc if is PLD, SMN, PUP or BST with -100% PDT, if is so right then allow all other job to be able do same. And if you more serious then NERF IT as they did for all job, end of story. Stop bring how i hate BST and so on, specially when i do have multiple BST in my LS (And yes i am one of these too..) and that never been a problem.

For the c**k block comment, i am sorry but SE already make all they can to avoid this to happen, reduce NM pop to 1 min but allow a BST solo 60~90 min long, just go figure, and hey i say BST, same would apply if PLD could get -100% PDT, so yes please stop derailing it.

Side note: my friend had -80% PDT and he was doing perfect, of course he had to actually work to success NM kill. Stop arguing how a BST absolute need -100% PDT that just plain BS, if your BST stink that much with -80% PDT then it might be a good choice to try another job.

[Ilax]

Seriously don't even say how you need be a skilled player to kick Snarl on hate reset, and eat popcorn while your PET get 0 dmg, oh and call another PET because he expired since you take too long to kill.

[Lordleo]

Idk if its been pointed out and i personally don't care to read 13+ pages of rambling, but bst is the only one to be able to get 100% -pdt. My pup was at 65% and was doing as good if not maybe better then some bsts, nice little ws called cannibal blade makes up for it, although like most all pups lil upset that WE got nerfed and nobody else did... thanks SE. Side note i believe I was told smn can only get 85% -pdt but hey their pets are a lil more disposable then the other two before mentioned jobs. I do agree w/ previously mentioned statement if gonna nerf one job because it can solo NM's that wipe alliances... why didn't you nerf the other 19 jobs?

[Korpg]

Oh ya because taking 0 DMG from 60,000 needle is 'working as intended'. Ya right, as it been said in early post, even Ochain that is imo super broken too, you still take DMG bc #1 is not 100% block rate and #2 is not 100% dmg reduction.

If you can't find how is not right, i am sorry but i can't help you there.

Wait, so you want everyone to suck as much as you then? If you can't do stuff a BST or SMN can, they must be nerfed to the point of being equal level of killing ability as you?

Sounds like somebody is BST envy here.

[Ilax]

Wait, so you want everyone to suck as much as you then? If you can't do stuff a BST or SMN can, they must be nerfed to the point of being equal level of killing ability as you?

Sounds like somebody is BST envy here.

Again you got me wrong, when we use BST we do it differently, we don't use BST to c%%k block ppl in abyssea for 60~90 min long. But yes we do use BST to tank NM and trigger/kill in 5~10 min that been said in previous post but i guess you probably too busy to read only what you wan and post this again me.

Stop feel b##t hurt and see the problem in face, -100% PDT, fair it is? Then it is fair for all other 19 job, is not fair? then nerf it as DEV did for other 19job. How this is so hard to understand? As i said if BST absolutly need -100% PDT to win again a NM there a major problem, and should maybe look for another job or play world of warcrap, but hey that just my opinion at this point, and sorry if i hurt your feeling with this comment.

[Ilax]

Again you think i even going to bother spend the 'Oh WOW, 3 day investment' to get the -100% PDT and feel special to c@#k block everyone? I have more sense then that, of course SE will end to nerf it, if they don't then just more people will solo NM for 60~90min pissing off everyone.

[Korpg]

Seriously don't even say how you need be a skilled player to kick Snarl on hate reset, and eat popcorn while your PET get 0 dmg, oh and call another PET because he expired since you take too long to kill.

Do we know that pets get 100% PDT reduction or are you just assuming they do since they can possibly get it down that low?

[Ilax]

Do we know that pets get 100% PDT reduction or are you just assuming they do since they can possibly get it down that low?

it is -100% PDT, have 60 minute log to prove it... 0 dmg spam for 60 min long on hell scissors, death scissors, Crit hit for 0, normal hit for 0.

[Korpg]

Again you got me wrong, when we use BST we do it differently, we don't use BST to c%%k block ppl in abyssea for 60~90 min long. But yes we do use BST to tank NM and trigger/kill in 5~10 min that been said in previous post but i guess you probably too busy to read only what you wan and post this again me.

Stop feel b##t hurt and see the problem in face, -100% PDT, fair it is? Then it is fair for all other 19 job, is not fair? then nerf it as DEV did for other 19job. How this is so hard to understand? As i said if BST absolutly need -100% PDT to win again a NM there a major problem, and should maybe look for another job or play world of warcrap, but hey that just my opinion at this point, and sorry if i hurt your feeling with this comment.

But having -87.5% damage taken from one atma alone is fair, right? Without any gear to reduce it any further? Having a second atma that gives +20 regen to the pet would do the same thing as doing -100% PDT taken. So, I can do the "same" thing to you as I do soloing my mobs.

Except, I'm SMN, not BST. You are basically accusing me of doing the same thing BSTs do. Except, I don't hold NMs, and I doubt the BSTs do either. If any BST with 90% DT reduction in gear/atmas are having trouble with NMs with one pet and Reward, then that is just sad. Yeah it will take a while to kill the NMs, but you know what, that is what we do. Stop telling everyone that you don't like the fact that 3 jobs can do something by themselves that you can't do by yourself, and you want SE to nerf those 3 jobs down to your level so they would become useless to do anything by themselves.

Because that is just selfish, if you ask me.

[Korpg]

it is -100% PDT, have 60 minute log to prove it... 0 dmg spam for 60 min long on hell scissors, death scissors, Crit hit for 0, normal hit for 0.

post a link to it.

[Ilax]

But having -87.5% damage taken from one atma alone is fair, right? Without any gear to reduce it any further? Having a second atma that gives +20 regen to the pet would do the same thing as doing -100% PDT taken. So, I can do the "same" thing to you as I do soloing my mobs.

Except, I'm SMN, not BST. You are basically accusing me of doing the same thing BSTs do. Except, I don't hold NMs, and I doubt the BSTs do either. If any BST with 90% DT reduction in gear/atmas are having trouble with NMs with one pet and Reward, then that is just sad. Yeah it will take a while to kill the NMs, but you know what, that is what we do. Stop telling everyone that you don't like the fact that 3 jobs can do something by themselves that you can't do by yourself, and you want SE to nerf those 3 jobs down to your level so they would become useless to do anything by themselves.

Because that is just selfish, if you ask me.

they can limit they PDT to 85% idc if they get Regen atma, savior atma and they still able to do it, but ffs not -100% PDT, there some NM in game like that cactus that can do up to 60,000 dmg, you think is fair a PET take 0/60,000 dmg? Broken is broken. Your SMN don't ahve anymore -100% PDT, are you still able play the job and kill NM? I am sure the answer is yes, then there no real argument to not nerf BST job.

[Korpg]

they can limit they PDT to 85% idc if they get Regen atma, savior atma and they still able to do it, but ffs not -100% PDT, there some NM in game like that cactus that can do up to 60,000 dmg, you think is fair a PET take 0/60,000 dmg? Broken is broken. Your SMN don't ahve anymore -100% PDT, are you still able play the job and kill NM? I am sure the answer is yes,

Are you sure that if that NM does 60k needles (which NM are you talking about anyway?) the pet will still take 0 damage? Have you seen that, or are you just assuming that?

As for the SMN comment, I basically HAVE 100% damage reduction. I have killed many NMs without the use of any healing move or item towards my avatar. And after the kill, my avatar still has 99~100% HP. You think thats fair, but BST having the same thing is unfair? If you "request" SE to nerf the pet PDT down to -87.5% like SMNs, guess what. BSTs will have to change their RR atma to Mounted Champion. Then it will take longer to kill anything. Really good solution if you ask me.


then there no real argument to not nerf BST job.

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

[Greatguardian]

Are you sure that if that NM does 60k needles (which NM are you talking about anyway?) the pet will still take 0 damage? Have you seen that, or are you just assuming that?

They take 0 damage.


As for the SMN comment, I basically HAVE 100% damage reduction. I have killed many NMs without the use of any healing move or item towards my avatar. And after the kill, my avatar still has 99~100% HP. You think thats fair, but BST having the same thing is unfair? If you "request" SE to nerf the pet PDT down to -87.5% like SMNs, guess what. BSTs will have to change their RR atma to Mounted Champion. Then it will take longer to kill anything. Really good solution if you ask me.

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

Cockblocking is annoying, but there is a huge difference in principle between taking 0 damage and taking 12.5% damage with regen atmas.

Red mage casting Phalanx and tanking 500 mandies for 1-2 damage a hit? Totally fine.

Beastmaster taking 0 damage from 60,000 Needles? Problem.

I don't envy Bsts. I don't pity them either. As Cyr demonstrated earlier, a fair amount of "Bst hate" is caused by the Bst themselves. However, there is most definitely a difference between taking reduced damage and taking zero damage. The latter is most likely an oversight.

inb4 Beastmasters spam every job subforum and General with a 10 paragraph letter to the producers about how nerfing 100%PDT has killed the job and nobody replies to it outside the Bst forum (sup PUP).

[Arcon]

If there is no real argument to not nerf BST job, then why is most everyone arguing against you?

Because the mass isn't always the brightest. Also, "arguing" implies that people present arguments, which no one really does. Most people just flame about how he should just leave the BST in question be and do something else meanwhile, which isn't always an option (and is no argument against it). Others said stuff like "We need it because we suck otherwise" which is neither true, nor an argument for it if it was. And that was the only thing I heard people say against it.

Being physically invincible over such a long period is poor design imo. Explain how it makes sense to have an absolutely invincible pet? How is that, in any way, logical? I honestly can't imagine it. When someone gets hit, they're supposed to take damage. They should be able to reduce that damage, that's what Defense and PDT is for. But be immune to it? That's a bit of a stretch. Just look at how many mobs and even mob families completely lack magical damage attacks. All of those (including high tier NMs) become easily soloable. NMs, that, for that matter, shouldn't even be easily killable. I just fail to see the sense in that. Obviously SE does, because they gimped SMN but not BST and PUP.

And yes, it is 100%. Death Scissors deal upwards of 2k damage. Assuming x/1024 distribution (which, to my knowledge, is the finest grade distinction in all of FFXI's calculations), even -1023/1024 PDT would mean Death Scissors would deal at least 1 point of damage, but I've seen it hit Nazuna for 0 more than once. Also, what does it matter? 99% would still be implausible.

Holding mobs is a whole other issue, the fact that this kind of damage reduction alone is possible is wrong imo. I'm a SMN too, and I'm still glad SE nerved them for that. Why they didn't think it should apply for other pets too, though, is beyond me.

[Khajit]

Not even close to the same thing, if people are zombying the mob it can easily be taken by someone else and even with RR spam they can still easily lose. Hard to lose with a mob where your pet has -100% pdt and -50+ mdt, huge heals with pet food and a 4-5 mins respawn on the pet.

You sound like a person that's never seen people zombie shit nonstop. Kiting isn't exactly hard.

[Xilk]

lolz
I can't help but laugh even though this topic is near and dear to me :P
I'm easily one of the earliest 100% -pdt bsts out there. I'll go further, I'm responsible for telling alot of other bsts about all the stuff they can solo and how to do it and how to get 100% -pdt alot of ways. I got ALOT of stuff in abyssea using pet tanks. I dare to say my avid posting helped share this w/ many many players.

Send your aggro... I'll let my pet tank you while I sit back and laugh!

@Ilax
This is probably the only response I'll give you. You are targeting 1 job begging for a nerf SOLELY because you didn't get the NM you wanted when you wanted it. You can encounter the same problem if it were an LS monopolizing an NM.
Are you kidding? Rani w/out a brew. It take a long time no matter what your setup. the NM fight taking too long is not because it was a bst, I'll bet you stayed there the whole time because you were trying to steal the NM>


I really wish GreatGuardian and Cyrana would tone it down a bit. You both have contributed very valuable thoughts and perspectives to the conversation, but I think you are both going overboard and accusing the other of falsehoods.
Please remember not to paint the brush too broadly. Player behavior =/= Job

I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something. We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

The problem is NOT bst 100% PET pdt. Its congestion and competition for NM's.

I'm pretty sure I posted the first Hedjedjet Solo. I told the bst we could solo it. My next statement is "but its not worth the time" at the very least get a smn to duo w/ you and it will take maybe 30 min. Also, Hedj has as NASTY poison aura.
If you think it takes NO skill to solo these NM's on bst w/ a 100% pdt set, you just show your ignorance. Soloing is often not very profitable for abyssea. You wan weakness proc's to be profitable in abyssea. This doesn't change when you are a bst.

IF you think it is broken, go try it. There are experienced bst in this thread who know all the limitations. There are experienced players in this thread who have just never seen this and are surprised by it. And There are haters (Ilax) who use their selfishness to fuel aggression to other players and trying to get some revenge w/ this thread, hoping SE will slam the nerf on another group of players.

The pet having 100% pdt does not make it, or you as a BST invincible. I'm surprised no one has suggested recruiting us bsts as pullers for alliances. We can pop/pull/hold an NM ready for the alliance to destroy VERY quickly. We can pull mass groups for Cleaving or AoE nuking.

Making this an attack on bst is a way to be hateful to other players instead of addressing the real issue.

IF you HONESTLY think this is a greater game breaker than any other imbalances in abyssea (WHM + MNK DUO POWER), I would honestly interested in hearing why. Keep in mind, the main doesn't get 100% pdt-. We are just like every other player in that regard. We get hit, we die.

Magic Damage
DoT spells
AoE
Hate resets

this is the short list off the top of my head that mitigates the advantage bst can have w/ a 100% pdt set. (and it takes a good amount of work to get this going)

Did you also scream to nerf the RDM/nin tanking a year or so ago?

[Greatguardian]

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.

Edit: For the record, I really don't care what Beastmasters do. I don't care if they just keep solo'ing the same things with 87.5% PDT. But it's highly likely that this was a mistake/oversight and will be corrected. Being immune to all physical damage is simply silly.

[Xilk]

No, I could care less about congestion. I just do other things. It's a cold, hard fact that taking 0 damage is highly unlikely to be intentional.

Mnk+Whm duos may be strong, but it still requires people to be at the keyboard performing well. Is it easy for a half decent player to coast through NMs as Mnk+Whm? Yeah. But there is still a fine line between "Reducing damage" and "Eliminating all damage entirely".

Pinning? Perfectly acceptable according to GMs.

Taking 0 damage from Ironclad and Amhuluk attacks via Z-coordinate abuse? Exploit, and patched.
It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it.. maybe.. I don't know I never tried soloing it.. might run out of time... I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

[Ilax]

I don't think any player who has used a 100% PET pdt set w/ any experience will think its that bad. Ilax's example is the only place where it affects other players. If you lowered the pdt to 87% all you are doing is making it more expensive. BST will burn thru jugs more often, use more curative items, and take LONGER To kill something.

So is for ninja when they have to use toolz, and all other job for food, medic(echo drop), and what about SMN? That argument is just plain wrong.


We killed plenty of NM's w/out 100% pdt before heroes of abyssea, before abyssea... its not that different. It might also make it easier for other groups to steal an nm and stomp on a solo bst.

idc if they take 2h long to kill, they will time out before able to do it, how about that? And if they still success then great work, nothing i can complain there, sux that gonna take 1h30 but at least is not with a lame abuse of -100% PDT.

You think is only because i am a job hater? Not at all, just find that stupid wasting so much time (for the bst/pup itself) + make everyone else waste time for a glitch that should not be present from base.

So if you really think is fair as i said it before then SE should unlock all other 19 job, and everyone can c##k block everyone, and we can spend 18h in abyssea/day waiting every solo'ing.

[Greatguardian]

It is in no way shape or form a "Cold hard fact"
Its possible that it unintended. Its also possible that its acceptable to devs. If they speak up, we'll know. Until then all you can do is guess.

"Eliminating all damage entirely" is not what is happening.

It is a rare NM that this might be the case. Please feel free to find one. None come to mind, and I've killed alot of NM's this way. If you find one, I doubt it will be one you care about or anyone competes over. I'll also bet that nerfing pet 100% -pdt won't make much difference at all in bst soloing it.

Edit: AH!! I have to correct myself. I thought of an NM you might care about... maybe. Emperador de Altepa.

Nasty bugger. but bst can solo it afk if they want to run away and afk while pet does it. I think it would be a rediculous waste of time, but it is possible. (and bst have little reason to fight it for bst's sake) I've never seen competition for that nm. It does take along time too. YOu also need a very high pdt so nerfing pet pdt would make this fight much more challenging.
Frankly I don't see why you wouldn't want to bring a bst along to take advantage of the uses of 100% -pdt on the pet.

Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.

[Volkai]

If the pet PDT limit is higher than the player character PDT limit, it is probably either a glitch or an oversight.


I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.
Wow, really? So you want a game with no challenge at all, do you?

You're the sort of person World of Warcraft exists for. <.<;

[Xilk]

Eliminating all physical damage entirely is exactly what is happening. Ironclads could still hit Z-pinners with certain TP moves. That does not mean it was not an exploit.

Regardless, you are right in the sense that nothing can be done by the playerbase either way. Like I said, I care very little about the actual application of this. I don't have Bst leveled, I don't use pets to solo, and it doesn't bother me much when I see someone spending 2 hours solo'ing an NM on Bst. It is simply rather ridiculous to claim that this was by design when Summoner was nerfed all of a few weeks ago when they had the exact same glitch.

This thread has simply raised my expectations for the eventual Noah's Flood of tears that will rain down when/if this gets adjusted.
Now you are changing your tune, you said all damage before, now just all physical damage. you really have to see how little physical damage is the challenge for nm's the whm mnk duo shows this.

Its really not even close to what was happening w/ summoners.

First, avatars got 100% -pdt at 100% health. They were not receiving the detrimental effects of the atma.
Second, Avatars used 1x atma for this, the rest could be dedicated to damage.
Third, Avatars have the elemental resistance as well. When bst make a 100% pdt pet, its very hard to kill something. you have a good tank, but you really need to get in there and melee to kill it. you are vulnerable to AoE. hate reset etc.

I don't buy it that you don't care about the application. You've argued too long in this thread for that to be true anymore. Part of bst pet pdt seems to offend you. I don't understand why.
The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

[Ilax]

The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

Only flood of tears i see is when everyone face day long BST solo'ing NM for 60~90 min bc they can exploit -100% PDT. As i say idc if is BST, SMN, PUP, PLD, NIN, name all job, is plain stupid and broken to take 0 dmg.

[Heady]

I've always wondered why people had so many problems or I should should say misconceptions with bst. Mind you Ive only been playing since right around when SE completed the ToAU mission line, so I don't know how bad the bst mpk issue (or so called) used to be. I do know I've met people within the past 2 yrs that still think bst pets siphon xp from a party. And these were jug pets they were referring to lol. Anyway I still stand by "working as intended" until a SE representative or community rep says different.

[Greatguardian]

Now you are changing your tune, you said all damage before, now just all physical damage. you really have to see how little physical damage is the challenge for nm's the whm mnk duo shows this.

Its really not even close to what was happening w/ summoners.

First, avatars got 100% -pdt at 100% health. They were not receiving the detrimental effects of the atma.
Second, Avatars used 1x atma for this, the rest could be dedicated to damage.
Third, Avatars have the elemental resistance as well. When bst make a 100% pdt pet, its very hard to kill something. you have a good tank, but you really need to get in there and melee to kill it. you are vulnerable to AoE. hate reset etc.

I don't buy it that you don't care about the application. You've argued too long in this thread for that to be true anymore. Part of bst pet pdt seems to offend you. I don't understand why.
The only flood of tears I see is from the OP. It would be sad if this got nerfed because of his tears, but I don't think that will happen.

Hm? I haven't been arguing about pet PDT for the majority of my posts. Merely the crappy attitude a lot of people on both sides were showing. I've made maybe 2 or 3 posts in this thread pertaining to PDT and I've been fairly stoic in all of them.

Also, eliminating all Physical damage is pretty much the same as eliminating all damage on a fair amount of NMs. I haven't changed my tune on this issue at all. And no, Magical Damage is not really a "bigger deal" for MNK+WHM duos considering that's how I do pretty much everything in Abyssea. Mnk+Whm takes a lot of damage, you simply have the caveat that you can heal pretty much infinitely as long as you're not one-shotted.

The only bit in this thread that offended me was the "Woe is us, Bst needs 100% PDT because no one likes us or lets us do anything else" bullcrap. Pet PDT on its own doesn't affect me at all. However, you can't really deny the wave of tears if this gets nerfed. Just look at Puppetmaster and their Burrs.

[Xilk]

Hm? I haven't been arguing about pet PDT for the majority of my posts. Merely the crappy attitude a lot of people on both sides were showing. I've made maybe 2 or 3 posts in this thread pertaining to PDT and I've been fairly stoic in all of them.

Also, eliminating all Physical damage is pretty much the same as eliminating all damage on a fair amount of NMs. I haven't changed my tune on this issue at all. And no, Magical Damage is not really a "bigger deal" for MNK+WHM duos considering that's how I do pretty much everything in Abyssea. Mnk+Whm takes a lot of damage, you simply have the caveat that you can heal pretty much infinitely as long as you're not one-shotted.

The only bit in this thread that offended me was the "Woe is us, Bst needs 100% PDT because no one likes us or lets us do anything else" bullcrap. Pet PDT on its own doesn't affect me at all. However, you can't really deny the wave of tears if this gets nerfed. Just look at Puppetmaster and their Burrs.


Fair enough. I don't think "woe unto me" or any such thing. I don't know how to tell you how much a difference the other damage types, abilities and such mitigate the advantage. You would have to try it.

I think 100% pdt is situationally very useful and it would be a shame to lose it. I don't think it is any more unbalancing than anything else in abyssea. :O)

[Malamasala]

I think the problem is that some people are so selfish and dumb that they'd go solo a NM for 60+ min instead of find some party members and do it in 10 mins x 6.

I don't even want to solo NMs on my SMN because it takes too long and you usually get nothing from it due to lack of triggers.

All we need is an update that bans all idiots.

[Greatguardian]

All we need is an update that bans all idiots.

Goodbye 95% of the game population.

[Valmur]

More QQ fest. grow up and do something else.

[Aldersyde]

Fair enough. I don't think "woe unto me" or any such thing. I don't know how to tell you how much a difference the other damage types, abilities and such mitigate the advantage. You would have to try it.

I think 100% pdt is situationally very useful and it would be a shame to lose it. I don't think it is any more unbalancing than anything else in abyssea. :O)

This. So much this.

People feel so entitled just because they enter an abyssea zone and drop some stones. Think back to the lesson you should have learned in kindergarten and either wait your turn or find another toy to play with.

And I'm still dying to know how a pup soloed dragua. I'm not saying this in a lolpup kinda way (because I don't think they're lol) but puppets have way lower hp than bst jugs and I'm pretty sure Dragua's AoE moves are not physically based. Methinks the OP is just overly exaggerating the "brokeness" of both situations.

[Bubeeky]

While I agree that aby has not been kind to some jobs, it's hardly a balance for them to have -100% pdt...personal feelings aside, that takes away the challenge doesn't it?

[Dallas]

I must also point out that even with -50% natural resisst, any VT mob will kill your pet before you kill them (sans using sleep to stop their tracks). Avatars are surprisingly fragile due to pretty poor defense ratings and around 1k HP.

Not sure if that is still true outside of abyssea, but inside we can destroy VT with phys builds. 2-3 kills per summons.

[Aldersyde]

Not sure if that is still true outside of abyssea, but inside we can destroy VT with phys builds. 2-3 kills per summons.

Yuly doesn't even need a pdt- build. I can go a full session farming manigordos with mc/rr/AoA with 2 pet eva axes without having to use call beast more than once, even if the tigers are vt. Should that be nerfed too?

Outside abyssea, i'd say a jug has no chance of beating a vt mob. You only put a jugpet on a vt mob when you've agroed something and need to stall the mob so you can get the hell out of there.

@Bubeeky: There are really so few nms that are absolute cakewalks, even with an ideal pdt- setup. The only ones that are that effortless wins are mobs with no magic or dots. I bet if most people went and got these builds then tried them, they would still get their faces torn off the first few times. People seem to think this is an "I-win" button and it's not.

[Dallas]

While I agree that aby has not been kind to some jobs, it's hardly a balance for them to have -100% pdt...personal feelings aside, that takes away the challenge doesn't it?

You're talking about the 3 jobs that no one wants to invite because you can't buff pets. Get over in my pet adjustment thread and re-rail it so that pet jobs don't *have* to receive special treatment.

That goes for all the anti-solo crowd. We solo because SE made us solo.

[Glamdring]

@OP: Did you really stand in abyssea for 60 mins watching someone solo a mob? Really? Really!?! Sweet zombie Jeebus.

If you did, I really have no sympathy. When my ls goes into abyssea with a plan and there's people already fighting the nm we planned on fighting, we go somewhere else. You wasted your own time waiting around for what you probably hoped would be a free nm if the bst died (and let's face it, you probably did think the bst was going to die). If you don't have a plan b or c or q, that's your own fault.

Sure, high pet pdt- may seem ridiculous, but the whole premise of abyssea seems to based on doing broken, ridiculous things. The most ridiculous thing about abyssea? The fact that there's 9 friggin zones filled with natural mobs and not one is charmable. Bst's natural ability is completely useless in 9 friggin zones. But i guess if even if we did have our natural ability in abyssea, you would steal the mob on a pet swap or complain in here if there was a party of bsts continually tossing pets at it.

Honestly, you don't even need DG to kill most things in abyssea if you're a bst. DG is the poor man's route. If you can continuously supply yourself with dippers, have 2 pet eva axes and eva atams, you can pull off a lot of the same stuff with mounted champion and pet food. The same dangers apply: DOT and casters. If you ran into a bst taking out an nm this way, would you be calling for a nerf too?

So much hate on bsts here. I believe it's horribly inefficient to solo nms without procs if you're actually wanting seals and I've sat through dncs, nins, and thfs do this. It sucks sitting on the sidelines waiting. I'm not one to call for a nerf against other jobs, but seriously, in zones where characters are practically godlike, if you take this away from bst and pup ( i guess, never seen the soling you're talking about but if its whm puppet and a pup meleeing how is this different than whm and mnk?), its only fair you give all these nms capped acc so evasion jobs can't solo them either. Let me clear, I don't want any job to be nerfed but if you're going to ban one job from the playground, you may as well ban everyone.

actually, the eva route is generally superior, -pdt does nothing for magic, evasion works on both, ask a thf, dnc, mnk, nin tank. This is also why bst don't solo the cast heavy NMs, aside from the proc issue our beloved -pdt set (which is so beloved I've never botherred to make one) is useless in the face of a mob with MP. The OP is simply trying to have their own inadequacy as a player addressed by nerfing any job that they could level to the same capability in a week, but are either too lazy or unskilled as a player to do.

honestly, this kind of garbage post is why we need a /blist feature on the forums.

[Greatguardian]

Wait, what? You can evade magic?

News to me (a Mnk, Nin tank)

[Glamdring]

I've always wondered why people had so many problems or I should should say misconceptions with bst. Mind you Ive only been playing since right around when SE completed the ToAU mission line, so I don't know how bad the bst mpk issue (or so called) used to be. I do know I've met people within the past 2 yrs that still think bst pets siphon xp from a party. And these were jug pets they were referring to lol. Anyway I still stand by "working as intended" until a SE representative or community rep says different.

FYI, bst MPK was almost non-existent since it was an automatic trip to Mordion Gaol. The actual MPK was generally noobs taking on too much zoning mobs into crowds seeking but standing too close to a zone line. Been a beast as my main job since August of 2002 iirc, only MPK'd once but the jag had just made a racist remark that offended me (and I'm not a member of the race in question). He said he'd have me sent to jail for the MPK, I said I'd have him banned for the chat log. I was never reported. Honestly, it was a total non-issue.

[Glamdring]

Wait, what? You can evade magic?

News to me (a Mnk, Nin tank)

played with the usual shadows route, yes. There is also both +magic acc and -magic acc gear. Noone ever uses it because other stuff works better, so magic acc is a largely ignored trait in the game; everyone is more worried about MAB anyway. But I was actually referring to those jobs ability to solo casting mobs, something bst is sorely lacking in, which is why -pdt is not the end all/be all this post seems to claim it is. Certainly, pet jobs (especially smn) can take advantage of most NM's fixation on a single element by using a resistant pet. There are also element specific Atma that are godly in these situations but noone uses them because they might lower their single hit damage numbers.

Seriously, it's not pets that are broken, it's the entire Abyssea system and what it's done to skilled play. Outside of bard, I think every single job at 90 with a few atma under its belt can solo some NMs-and I got a couple my bard might just try... none of them can solo everything... unless they brew it. THAT is what's messed up.

This game was built around the party/alliance system with a few jobs that were able to situationally solo some mobs. Beast arguably had the widest utility as a solo, and it was a good thing since we couldn't get a party invite without a bribe. Until the recent introduction of EZ mode into every aspect of the game however, people weren't complaining that every job needs to be a solo master. All along tho' clever players were able to do things that were arguably never intended to be within a job's capabilities. The most obvious has always been ninja, long contended to be a puller/light DD, but adapted into a blink (and now blink/eva) tank role by playstyle.

What's really interesting in all of this to me is the OP complains of a beast soloing the NM for 60 minutes. I wonder what their contention would have been if the beast complained of having to stand there and watch the OP's group monopolize the spawn for repeated fights for 90-120 minutes?

[Ilax]

The OP is simply trying to have their own inadequacy as a player addressed by nerfing any job that they could level to the same capability in a week, but are either too lazy or unskilled as a player to do.

Ok your a funny clown, so i am lazy or unskilled bc i point a unfair -100% PDT, try harder.

[Ilax]

What's really interesting in all of this to me is the OP complains of a beast soloing the NM for 60 minutes. I wonder what their contention would have been if the beast complained of having to stand there and watch the OP's group monopolize the spawn for repeated fights for 90-120 minutes?

We kill 1 NM before him, do i need to tell you how it ended to be the only one too? We moved to Bennu and dragua, do this make -100% PDT more fair, i doubt, still fun how it derail just to win again something that is clearly broken in the game. If it was so much fair, DEV would allow SMN to do the same thing, and let be serious here, who care abotu SMN with -100% PDT when they HS for 3~5k dmg? No way smn would have hold anything.

Question is how ppl like you guy end to think this is fair or so right?

[Malamasala]

Question is how ppl like you guy end to think this is fair or so right?

Well, try and play a pet job and you'll see why we think it is fair. There are so many issues with pet jobs that are negative, that we think it is just a minor treat to get positive effects like 100% PDT.

Take for example spirits.... broken since 2003... is it fair to leave a job broken near a decade?
Or take charm... you haven't had much to charm since around 2003 as well, since all new monsters and endgame areas are no-charm. (You get occasional new low level exp mobs to charm it seems though)
How about silena over cure puppet AI? Should have been done 5 years ago, and still is bugged.

Even if I got Astral Flow on a 10 min timer, I'd feel gimp due to all pet restrictions SE has left in their update path. (Like how the AOE range of Astral Flow is like 5' anyway so monsters need to be standing on top of the avatar to be hit)

Fix the problems first, then come around and remove the "positive" bugs that make us able to solo.

[GlobalVariable]

let be serious here, who care abotu SMN with -100% PDT when they HS for 3~5k dmg? No way smn would have hold anything. So its only "BS" when you had to wait right? You were crying about how unfair it is yet suddenly its ok for a job if they can do it faster. Beef up rage mode to ignore pdt add flee etc and add it to all abyssea NMs instead of singling out and nerfing one or two jobs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

You guy just love derail it, my post was clearly talking about 2 thing...

-100% PDT + holding NM.

I would hate as much PLD if it was the job that get -100% PDT, Sorry but stop get me wrong.Um... claiming a disgust against PDT and "holding" are different topics. You were not arguing holding nor claiming the guy you stood and watched for 60min was holding as no other people eventualy came to assist him. You're bluring your own topic with that statement.
Wait, what? You can evade magic?

News to me (a Mnk, Nin tank)My Aquillo has a magic eva aug. ^^

[Korpg]

Um... claiming a disgust against PDT and "holding" are different topics.

But, if the OP has to make this a "problem" by making them the same.

Nothing is wrong with having a BST solo anything, even with PDT-100%. But when you have a BST "holding" a mob, then it becomes a problem, at least with SE's eyes. Got to make them the same for there to be any changes.

[Aldersyde]

Fix the problems first, then come around and remove the "positive" bugs that make us able to solo.

Exactly. And would it have killed SE to give an elemental proc to axe? There sure are enough of them. Dagger already has energy drain, why did it need cyclone as well? What about gale axe? This obviously wouldn't fix the whole issue but if SE truly wants all jobs utilized in party situations why give some jobs so many tools to contribute to party settings when others get none?

[Glamdring]

Ok your a funny clown, so i am lazy or unskilled bc i point a unfair -100% PDT, try harder.

why try harder? the point is simple, ANYONE can achieve a -100pdt set-up in about 35 hours of playtime, that would include you. It is not broken, it's something anyone can do with a small amount of time and effort.

[Glamdring]

We kill 1 NM before him, do i need to tell you how it ended to be the only one too? We moved to Bennu and dragua, do this make -100% PDT more fair, i doubt, still fun how it derail just to win again something that is clearly broken in the game. If it was so much fair, DEV would allow SMN to do the same thing, and let be serious here, who care abotu SMN with -100% PDT when they HS for 3~5k dmg? No way smn would have hold anything.

Question is how ppl like you guy end to think this is fair or so right?

considerring the 100+ posts on here disagreeing with you I'm not sure how "clearly broken" it is. Oh, and arguably smn is BETTER at this than bst are, their call pet timer is measured in seconds, not minutes, and they can couple their -pdt with both -mdt AND elemental resistance... or exploit the elemental weakness of their prey. NMs that are magic happy just cost beast $ for the most part.

Arguably, solo is not the way to approach NMs in Aby, without proc ability you are a slave to luck. It's one of the reasons I choose not to solo there on NMs, the return on my time simply doesn't justify the effort. Because I don't get the help I need voluntarily to get the drops I need I'll admit I exploit the hold idea to get proccers into my fight, but only if they agree that whatever drops I want are mine before they get an invite; after all, I can solo it and I might get the drop anyway.

But seriously, hold is an issue with a hell of alot more jobs than beast, and harping on the -pdt issue does nothing if the hold is your point. +EVA soloing NMs often takes just as long, as can nuke|sleep|kite or kite|DoT but you don't attack them, just those using pets. In other words, you object to the WAY beast can solo (and only one of those, -pdt is not the only way we can go), the fact that with a bit of effort just about anyone else can too is conveniently left out. THAT is hypocrisy.

[Greatguardian]

My Aquillo has a magic eva aug. ^^

Magic Evasion simply lowers the targets Magic Accuracy, making it more likely for the spell to be resisted. You don't "Evade" magic damage with "Evasion jobs like Thf, Dnc, Nin, and Mnk" like the other guy suggested. Based on his Utsusemi correction, it's obviously semantics, but the point stands.

That said, just because a job is hypothetically broken in 99 bad ways doesn't mean it "deserves" to be broken in one good way.

Easiest solution for pet jobs? Let pets share their master's Haste/Attack/Accuracy/DA/TA/etc buffs from Equipment, Food, Abilities, and Spells. Feasible at all? Who the hell knows, really.

Edit: @Glam, who cares how well any job can solo? 100% PDT is 100% PDT and is ridiculous. Evasion hard caps at 80% anyways, I don't know what sort of comparison you're trying to make with it. Bst could be nerfed down to 87.5%, still solo pretty much everything they solo now (the good Bsts at least), and I'd be perfectly happy personally.

Though, it does seem like we've entered an era of "Uncapped stats", given that so many 50% caps have been intentionally broken this update.

[Ilax]

So its only "BS" when you had to wait right? You were crying about how unfair it is yet suddenly its ok for a job if they can do it faster. Beef up rage mode to ignore pdt add flee etc and add it to all abyssea NMs instead of singling out and nerfing one or two jobs.

Again you just mixing up and make me say stuff from start that was not my point, you make me just add comment to turn them back again me, bright but annoying.

I never said SMN should get PDT-100%, i say SMN GOT NERFED WHY NOT BST?

I never said i rage because someone take 1h to kill nm, get over it, this happen often in abyssea (hello nin/dnc or dnc/nin or blm/rdm, or PLD)

What i SAID IS HOW SAD a job end to waste everyone time just because DEV did not fix that issue.

And yet all i hear is comment about how BST absolutly need this -100% PDT, witch is yet again another BS argument, same argument could be apply to many job in abyssea.

And again as i stated and ill will say it again, if is so correct to allow a BST to have -100% PDT then why not SMN? Who gonna care since they going to kill hell quick.

Hope you understand more my point, because no i am not saying give back SMN -100% PDT, nor i am saying i hate BST job, nor i am saying i hate wait in abyssea because i am a jerk and i rent the zone tonight and everyone have to leave when i am present.

Hope this time was more clear. -100% PDT = not right, end of story. (add all other frustration about it is optional, idk if you say the job is FAIL and need to use it, that is so subjective, all depend how you play the job my friend.)

[Arcon]

why try harder? the point is simple, ANYONE can achieve a -100pdt set-up in about 35 hours of playtime, that would include you. It is not broken, it's something anyone can do with a small amount of time and effort.

Wrong, that is not the point. The point is, it shouldn't be obtainable in the first place.

Can people please stop riding on the fact that the OP mentioned mob holding and get back to the actual issue? Name one reason why 100% PDT reduction is good other than "We wanna solo!" or "We suck without it!" please. Right now all it does is upset the game balance and makes absolutely no logical sense.

[GlobalVariable]

why try harder? the point is simple, ANYONE can achieve a -100pdt set-up in about 35 hours of playtime, that would include you. It is not broken, it's something anyone can do with a small amount of time and effort.

Oversimplifying which invites arguments that we have it to easy. You have to give up some stuff to achieve it. Losing room for atma that could have been DD based and/or gear that has to be specifically for it, like the mini expansion augment gear. And honestly going for a full 100% is in most cased not so hot, more efficient to go with some DD power and/or regen. Even at 100% You can't just afk and wait for a win like people seem to think. Several tp attacks ignore pdt even if we ignore other damage types for this argument like mercurial strike. And you know what? With ZERO pdt gear or atma I can solo Briareus (I won't becaus eI can't proc, but others have). Eva and regen and a couple pet food zeta. I've seen a nin/dnc solo it to. Frankly Utsusemi is more effective than a pdt setup if only because it blocks single target magic attacks.

This whole thread going on this long is absurd. Counter holding, not nerf a job. Mob rage was MADE for holding so lets buff that http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7753-Suggestion-regarding-raged-mobs

[GlobalVariable]

Again you just mixing up and make me say stuff from start that was not my point, you make me just add comment to turn them back again me, bright but annoying.

I never said SMN should get PDT-100%, i say SMN GOT NERFED WHY NOT BST?
let be serious here, who care abotu SMN with -100% PDT when they HS for 3~5k dmg? No way smn would have hold anything.No, you are backpeddling and claiming nobody "gets you".

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I never said SMN should get PDT-100%, i say SMN GOT NERFED WHY NOT BST?A "nerf" is when they go out of their way to change something already in place, lowering it's effectiveness. SMN was never nerfed in this respect.

@GG: I know, I just like pointing out they my aquillo has magic eva. lol

[GlobalVariable]

Can people please stop riding on the fact that the OP mentioned mob holding and get back to the actual issue?

Thanks for all reply guys, tbh i don't care if BST have -100% PDT, then SE should just give them 20,000,000 attack bonus while at it, so they can kill they stupid NM in 1 sec and not blocking the NM for 90 min... Not the issue huh?

[Arcon]

A "nerf" is when they go out of their way to change something already in place, lowering it's effectiveness. SMN was never nerfed in this respect.

Per this definition (and every other definition I'm aware of) it was. That precisely describes what happened to SMN. A certain game mechanic was already in place, one that still exists with BST an PUP, so SE definitely doesn't disagree with it in principle. Yet they went out of their way to lower its effectiveness, precisely for SMN.

Edit:

Not the issue huh?

No, not the issue. Look at the title. Look at what the OP proposed (opening post, not opening poster). His motivation wasn't the issue (and in fact, he didn't even mention it was his motivation, he only gave mob holding as an example of why it is an issue), the issue at hand is the actual PDT (and, according to the title, that it is "plain BS"). He made the thread, whatever he said after that may or may not have been off topic.

[Miera]

I honestly don't see all the crying about the stupid atma, I can solo just fine without it, Actually, I don't even HAVE Ducal Guard and I am able to successfully kill on my Petjobs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Not the issue huh?Wait? When did it go from waiting for 60 to waiting for 90?

[Ilax]

No, you are backpeddling and claiming nobody "gets you".

Sorry but if you can't get the point i just can't help, keep doing the clown you amuse me.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Can people please stop riding on the fact that the OP mentioned mob holding and get back to the actual issue?Did you mean "did not mention?" Just checking to be sure.

[Ilax]

Not the issue huh?

Wow you really can't get the point? where i say: At this point of invincibility why not just give a 1 shot kill.

just wow dude... just wow...

[Greatguardian]

Sorry but if you can't get the point i just can't help, keep doing the clown you amuse me.

Stop replying. You're discrediting the only legitimate discussion in your thread.

Edit: @Kaji, no, the OP did mention it, and is bawww'ing about it. But the rest of us are trying to ignore his tears and have a real discussion on a legitimate game issue.

[Arcon]

Did you mean "did not mention?"

No .

[GlobalVariable]

Sorry but if you can't get the point i just can't help, keep doing the clown you amuse me.

Poor misunderstood you. We're all "getting you wrong" again, and I amuse you.

[Siviard]

This is what I see whenever I see Ilax make a post trying to further their point...



And yet all i hear is comment about how BST absolutly need this -100% PDT, witch is yet again another BS argument, same argument could be apply to many job in abyssea.

Translation = "I hate BST"


And again as i stated and ill will say it again, if is so correct to allow a BST to have -100% PDT then why not SMN? Who gonna care since they going to kill hell quick.

Hope you understand more my point, because no i am not saying give back SMN -100% PDT, nor i am saying i hate BST job, nor i am saying i hate wait in abyssea because i am a jerk and i rent the zone tonight and everyone have to leave when i am present.

Translation = "Although I say I don't hate BST, I truly truly despise BST and all they stand for! When I see a BST in the same Abyssea zone as me, my skin crawls in disgust! So much so that I make troll posts on the official forums in the hopes that the Devs see it and nerf BSTs to hell! Viva la resistance!!1!11one!1!"


Hope this time was more clear. -100% PDT = not right, end of story. (add all other frustration about it is optional, idk if you say the job is FAIL and need to use it, that is so subjective, all depend how you play the job my friend.)

Translation - "It is TOTALLY COOL for a job that is not BST to have -100% PDT, but if it's BST that has it then it's NOT cool. Oh, by the way....did I mention I really really hate BST?"

Summary.....not much of one, except we all wish you'd just go away Ilax. You're starting to remind me of Feiwong. Would you like to be compared to Feiwong??? With your "CRUSADE" against BST? How about I just call you Feiwong from now on? Yep, that's your new name. Feiwong. Enjoy it!

[Greatguardian]

Tasteless.

OP is on the slow side, but comparing people to Feiwong only serves to diminish the impact of Feiwong himself. Feiwong is Feiwong, and the OP is nowhere near that bad.

You don't see me calling Cyr "Starcade".

[Siviard]

Tasteless.

OP is on the slow side, but comparing people to Feiwong only serves to diminish the impact of Feiwong himself. Feiwong is Feiwong, and the OP is nowhere near that bad.

You don't see me calling Cyr "Starcade".

Tasteless?

Here's what's tasteless. Ilax's original post.

[Greatguardian]

Tasteless?

Here's what's tasteless. Ilax's original post.

People are still discussing the OP? Aside from the OP that is.

[Siviard]

Then let this abomination of a thread die.

[GlobalVariable]

No, not the issue. Look at the title. Look at what the OP proposed (opening post, not opening poster). His motivation wasn't the issue When you demand a nerf your reason for wanting that nerf IS the issue and the Original Poster has several times stated things to the effect of "because they can do just hold things". Nobody is misunderstanding them here.

[Greatguardian]

Then let this abomination of a thread die.

There are plenty of discussions related to the OP going on right now that don't directly involve the OP. No one's going to make a new thread just to discuss tangents.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

To Square Enix. This thread is by no means the voice of the community and mearly the ravings perpetuated by the smallest of the smallest minorities and should not be taken as a reflection of the community at whole. Keep in mind that complainers often to not have any legitimate concerns and are mearly the most vocal. Please support legitimate concerns and keep this game from being ruined for everyone by complainers.
~Thank you.

[Arcon]

When you demand a nerf your reason for wanting that nerf IS the issue and the Original Poster has several times stated things to the effect of "because they can do just hold things". Nobody is misunderstanding them here.

Who cares what the OP wants? See here:


People are still discussing the OP? Aside from the OP that is.

Why make another thread that addresses the same issue? He never even said that was the sole reason. He mentioned it, people disagreed, or rather, agreed that it was an issue, but a different one. This thread is still about PDT, which imo defies any game logic, and is imbalanced across the job board.


This thread is by no means the voice of the community and mearly the ravings perpetuated by the smallest of the smallest minorities and should not be taken as a reflection of the community at whole. Keep in mind that complainers often to not have any legitimate concerns and are mearly the most vocal.

This holds true for almost all of your posts I've seen since these forums were opened. Ironically, more than for this thread, if you can look past the OP.

[GlobalVariable]

Who cares what the OP wants?My post was directed to that person and they responded and you keep trying to tell me its not relevant. Their motivation is directly relate dot my post at them. Quit twisting logic trying to white knight them.

[Arcon]

My post was directed to that person and they responded and you keep trying to tell me its not relevant. Their motivation is directly relate dot my post at them. Quit twisting logic trying to white knight them.

I'm not trying to white-knight them, I'm trying to ignore them, and would hope for others to do the same thing to keep the relevance of the thread up, because the issue at hand does actually have substance.

[GlobalVariable]

I'm not trying to white-knight them, I'm trying to ignore them, and would hope for others to do the same thing to keep the relevance of the thread up, because the issue at hand does actually have substance.

Then ignore both posts and keep you own discussion on track instead of this endless quoting. If the op tries to claim I'm just not understanding them when I disagree with their reasoning I'm going to keep replying to that and I'm not going to care what you think the thread should be about.

[Xilk]

Who cares what the OP wants? See here:



Why make another thread that addresses the same issue? He never even said that was the sole reason. He mentioned it, people disagreed, or rather, agreed that it was an issue, but a different one. This thread is still about PDT, which imo defies any game logic, and is imbalanced across the job board.



This holds true for almost all of your posts I've seen since these forums were opened. Ironically, more than for this thread, if you can look past the OP.

You are not considering the implications at all of 100% pdt on a PET, or maybe you just wouldn't know.

You cannot Cure bomb a pet like a whm. doesn't matter how much pdt pet has when master dies.
There are plenty of mobs w/ Aura, enfeebles, DoT, magic nuking, spawned adds, or special moves that just ignore this.

You are looking at the number and thinking of how it would affect a player instead of a pet.

You just keep harping on how its broken for the number. You don't know, you haven't seen it. Does it render bst superior to other jobs for abyssea? Have you seen the threads raging over how awesome it is and that all players should play solo bst to get all their seals instead of getting a whm + mnk duo? nope, it took you over 5 months for bst hater to cry about it.
I could scream and yell just as much how razed ruins should be nerfed, or how counter is too high on a mnk, or how whm cures are too strong. This is completely in line w/ the capabilities of the job and how the jobs can perform in abyssea. The reason its being targeting is because it was a bst, not for any real concern over game balance.
I've seen you make the same empty post over an over. the number offends you.

Take a look at the real implications because you sound completely ignorant of how this actually affects game balance.

[Korpg]

Personally, I think the OP just hated the fact that somebody could be killing the mob they wanted by themselves and not him.

If you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

[Greatguardian]

Monks still take physical damage. /Thread.

[Ilax]

you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Ilax

[Mezzopiano]

Obvious exploit is obvious. How anyone can pull the "it's not a bug, it's a feature" card on something as broken as permanent Invincible is mind-boggling.

[Siviard]

http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Fenrir/Ilax

Keywhore much?? Sure you might have 90 BST but you're obviously clueless about the job.

[Greatguardian]

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

Edit: Or Masamunes

[Siviard]

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

*sigh* go away Greatguardian.

[Greatguardian]

*sigh* go away Greatguardian.

Nah. 0123456789

[Heady]

Imagine if someone posted in 2008 ish "Sam needs a nerf , its too powerful". I can't even picture the drama and crying from something like that. In a way im happy these forums didn't start up till recently.

[Greatguardian]

Imagine if someone posted in 2008 ish "Sam needs a nerf , its too powerful". I can't even picture the drama and crying from something like that. In a way im happy these forums didn't start up till recently.

BST isn't too powerful though. If you think "Bst = overpowered" is the primary complaint from the faction of posters here who know what they're talking about and dislike 100% PDT, you're missing the point entirely.

[Leglevant]

23 pages for this...seriously?

Don't people have better things to do then police the community?

I really don't see an issue with BST being able to get their pet to 100% PDT inside abyssea (read that again, it's ONLY in Abyssea), if the mob kills the BST then it doesn't really matter what our pet can do.

Burning a pet job (or all your jobs) to 90, doesn't mean you understand anything about how the job functions and since you didn't know BST could do this before you ran into one actually doing it, means you don't understand everything else happening while the pet is at 100% PDT.

1. We can't even use the single most used job ability by our job at all in Abyssea, Charm, name 1 other job this happens to in Abyssea? Oh you can't can you?
2. It's ONLY in Abyssea, where everything is broken anyway, no where else can a BST achieve this and it's ONLY by using 2x Atma slots (which in return destroys our ability to do significant damage).
3. This only works with our pet at or below 50%.
4. This only works on NM's that don't have slip/DoT/Magical damage.
5. The BST themselves don't get the 100% PDT bouns.

Do I use a 100% PDT set for BST? No, I don't because with my style of play I don't need it.

Do I see an issue with it or see it as an exploit? No, no more then I see a Brew as being an exploit...I see 5 other issues we have to deal with while using everything we do to achieve the 100% PDT build.

In regards to 'why didn't SE patch all pets when they patched SMN'. To my understanding the SMN patch was done because it was a native issue, popped pet was 100% and had 100% PDT, they didn't need to change anything about gear/atma/etc. to achieve it.

To me it looks like you ran into a BST that was probably just seeing if they could solo it with that setup, the way you worded your original post, makes it sound like you're whining about a BST taking and soloing 'your' mob. For what it's worth, any BST that knows the job, knows damn well it's better to get a couple people to help proc then it is to waste countless hours soloing for no drops. The fact that an Eva build with Yully is generally more productive to solo then a 100% PDT build. You ran into an idiot, plain and simple.

Maybe, just maybe, SE left this as is, because sole JA that we relied on for song long was taken away (and the fact we have to jump through a bunch of hoops to even get this build), they chose to give us the ability to continue soloing as we did for so long? It's really ok to think outside your box every once in a while before you go screaming/whining that it's an exploit/bug/issue.

SE can take it away or they can keep it in, I don't care either way since I don't use it, if they do then the BST community will adapt yet again, like we always have (hello MPK patch/Zoo nerf).

You probably would have got a better reaction from the community, plainly asking a Dev why it was this way.

So....Dev's/Community Rep's, why is this functioning the way it is?

[Heady]

No , I get the point, just a drama comparison. While I do support the high bst -pdt, I didn't realize you could fully block something like 60k needles. That seems a bit extreme when something like Cactrot Rapido could easily have mowed you down if you didn't have enough targets phalanx, ss etc. before the cap increase.

[Dart]

Is it "broken"? probably. Is it ruining the game for the rest of us? Nope! Bst got shit on for the longest time. Let them have their little victories.

[Glamdring]

Oversimplifying which invites arguments that we have it to easy. You have to give up some stuff to achieve it. Losing room for atma that could have been DD based and/or gear that has to be specifically for it, like the mini expansion augment gear. And honestly going for a full 100% is in most cased not so hot, more efficient to go with some DD power and/or regen. Even at 100% You can't just afk and wait for a win like people seem to think. Several tp attacks ignore pdt even if we ignore other damage types for this argument like mercurial strike. And you know what? With ZERO pdt gear or atma I can solo Briareus (I won't becaus eI can't proc, but others have). Eva and regen and a couple pet food zeta. I've seen a nin/dnc solo it to. Frankly Utsusemi is more effective than a pdt setup if only because it blocks single target magic attacks.

This whole thread going on this long is absurd. Counter holding, not nerf a job. Mob rage was MADE for holding so lets buff that http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/7753-Suggestion-regarding-raged-mobs

If you've been reading then you know that I have no -100% pdt, and have no plans to get it. I solo fine without it. It is simply 1 way bst can solo, not the only way, and arguably (as you just did) not even the best way. But it is there, and it is available to anyone that wants it. You simply have to do some work.

I know in this aby ez mode era working for something is a foreign concept to most players, but it is a viable way to get things done.

[Miera]

I didn't know you could key leech Crafting levels too.

Edit: Or Masamunes
WOOOOSH!!!

[Glamdring]

Personally, I think the OP just hated the fact that somebody could be killing the mob they wanted by themselves and not him.

If you really want to solo a NM, go level a pet job, and get off our backs.

or just about any other job for that matter...

[Yinnyth]

100% PDT is a bit overboard. That being said, pet jobs have long been in need of help, and this is not an immediate threat to the balance of the game. So, should it be fixed? Eventually, but not until pet jobs are actually considered desirable.

[Concerned4FFxi]

i agree more than 50% pdt is retarded. Only a pld's 2hr or a pld using ochain or aegis should be able to exceed mdt or pdt 50%.

[Duelle]

So if I play a non-party job and have no friends I should be allowed to be invincible? There isn't even any skill to it, it's -100% pdt. Can go watch tv while the pet fights it.I heard -PDT also makes you immune to magic and magical TP moves. Confirm/Deny?

Personally, I would accept a nerf to PDT if and only if SE can swallow their pride, admit they screwed up majorly with the pet jobs and change them in a way that they can actually function in parties in ways that can be beneficial to the group while maintaining the jobs' theme.

[Korpg]

I heard -PDT also makes you immune to magic and magical TP moves. Confirm/Deny?

Personally, I would accept a nerf to PDT if and only if SE can swallow their pride, admit they screwed up majorly with the pet jobs and change them in a way that they can actually function in parties in ways that can be beneficial to the group while maintaining the jobs' theme.

....yeah. Make a soloable job unable to solo anymore. That's what those types of jobs need!

[Arcon]

....yeah. Make a soloable job unable to solo anymore. That's what those types of jobs need!

That's not what he said.

So far I think the essence of the thread is that most people recognize physical damage immunity is broken, but we should hang on to it regardless, so BSTs and PUPs can continue to solo. Yet some of the same people say it's easy to solo even with a lower than 100% PDT reduction, just that it takes more effort. Well, I guess that's a difference of opinion then, because I think it should be a challenge. It's not just inconvenient, if more Atma have to be focused on keeping the pet alive, damage is lower and hate becomes more of an issue (not only because of lower damage, but because the pet also takes damage, thus loses enmity). Sounds to me like it would be harder, yet still nowhere near impossible.

Why would I want life for BST to be harder? I don't, I don't care at all for BST, I don't play it, don't have it and don't know many people who do (although two of those are 100% PDT BSTs too). I simply think the arguments are flawed. "BST needs some loving too" isn't convincing in my eyes. I know of its capabilities even without this and I know it's still a great soloer, both inside and outside of Abyssea. But if it does in fact need some loving, this isn't the right way to go about it. It's a broken game mechanic and there's nothing else to it.

[Runespider]

Most everyone that is for this are pet jobs abusing it to easily solo NMs. I mean I don't mind people being able to solo, but this takes almost zero skill, no danger and it's just plain retarded.

The amount of physical and magic damage they can mitigate is insane and is totally broken, any excuses they can muster and nonsense. Saying "poor bst and smn had it so hard...let them have this, they need it!" Nonsense, no job needs such a heavy exploit, let them have a decent enough -damage number but not this high.

[Zyeriis]

It's not even damage - once it reaches 100%, its damage annulment, which is broken. I'm just waiting for the rest of us to realize it, all level bst (which will take how long? a week tops?) and start using a few BSTs to invincible hold NMs while we proc. Sure they won't be immune to magic and you can't target them with cure spells but, hey, thats why you would get more than one. Evasion tanking would be a thing of the past.

They may as well remove exp loss while they're at it, as no one will ever die. Remove White Mages and all curing spells because they'll be useless too.

[Malamasala]

i agree more than 50% pdt is retarded. Only a pld's 2hr or a pld using ochain or aegis should be able to exceed mdt or pdt 50%.

That isn't balanced either, since you can cure a PLD and not a pet.

The most balanced solution is lower PDT on pets and make them curable. Then a pet would be a PLD without hate tools. (except for snarl I guess)

[GlobalVariable]

let them have a decent enough -damage number but not this high. Hows somewhere from 66 to 75 as a total cap for gear+atma/magical effect for everyone, not including burtang's ability go go higher to what I hear is around 87% sound to you ? I'm curious.



And I want to try and clarify some things to some posters. I hope I'm coherent, sorry but I'm sleepy.

Hate is a non issue. With zero atma and no pdt gear keeping hate on a pet isn't hard at all for any of the 3 pet jobs in solo situations, they've been doing it since before abyssea came along. Would prolly kill the trigger happy blm in my low man group though /snicker. And to be blunt the folks saying they "need" 100% are likely doing it wrong and gimping themselves. I find I need around 70% to not spend a fortune, and being a miser I prefer slightly more for mobs that I don't need evasion for.

Plenty of TP attacks are unaffected by -pdt (mercurial strike isn't even magic based and will ignore -pdt) and my pet can't utsusemi or fanatics drink its way out of the things joe average DD can. A high pdt build, even 100%, is not the easy button win vs every mobs it is being made out to be. And no we do not gets tons of easy -mdt with our -pdt. Different combination of stuff if you want to deal with magic damage.

I'm not trying to argue for 100% here, I'm trying to argue against against 50% (and some shoddy reasoning earlier). And NOT as compensation for being "shafted" but rather the simple fact that there isn't any other form of damage mitigation available for a jug pet.

I'm reminded of complaints I've seen before about the size of my pet food heal, its on a much longer recast than on any cure so it needs to be larger. I think people who don't see why our -pdt going over 50 isn't so bad (again, I'm not demanding 100) similarly don't have all the facts in mind when they say this. I even have to choose between removing paralyze now or saving my reward command in case of low hp. I dunno the exact details but I presume other pet jobs have quirks to work around as well.

Please ignore people who whip out that logical fallacy that 2 wrongs somehow make a right, and I hope most of you guys can see there aren't just 2 sides in this.

Man I rambled a bit...I hope this doesn't spawn a string of quoting and re explaining when I get up (@.@); I need to get to bed I'm beat.

[Arcon]

Sure they won't be immune to magic and you can't target them with cure spells but, hey, thats why you would get more than one.

About that. People keep saying BST still takes magic damage, which makes sense (on certain mobs, there's many mobs who don't posess any magical qualities at all), they forget to say that pets also take reduced magical damage as well. Not to mention some PDT items have also MDT on them (or rather, just general DT), and some MDT reduction only too. If you bothered, could even make 2x MDB axes, for additional magical damage mitigation.

And while you can't cast cure (which you won't need anywhere near as much as campared to normal players), you can still use Reward, for huge amounts of HP restored. And as was mentioned before, there's resummon of pets of course, and 4min10s really isn't much compared to how long they can survive (which is indefinitely on many mobs).

And why should a pet even be like a PLD? So a BST would be a PLD + healer + DD in one (not to mention damage is the primary source of enmity, and taking damage is the primary source of losing enmity, both of which pets are good at)? I remember at 75 two BSTs duod Hakutaku. They didn't have cure, they didn't have any of the gear they do now, they didn't have grossly overplayed PDT/MDT reduction. They still did what others were afraid to touch with an alliance. Of course it was hard and it probably took them some failed attempts before they got it right, but with the right amount of effort put in, they could do something that very few, if any, other job combinations could do duo, most people probably not even in a full party. And that's how I think it should be, they should be able to solo/duo things (although I'm not even convinced if that's how the job was intended, because it still has lots of party uses, more so than most jobs), but it should require some effort on their part. And obtaining the DT gear is neither hard (especially not for BST) nor very time consuming, apart from maybe Shepherd's Chain, which is luck based, and the least important item anyway.

[RAIST]

Good grief.. what's with all the hating on BST? For the record, I have a 90 BST, but rarely use it, so didn't do a -DT build for it. Everyone is neglecting that BST has to pay to play each time. Can't charm in aby, have to use jug pets--and they can't use a refresh atma and spam cures on their pets: they have to use meds on their pets, and have to wait on an ability timer to do that. They also can't just recast/redeploy a free pet like other jobs.

And let's not forget the utility of -DT on petless jobs....

Granted, 100% is a bit overboard in the general scope of things and might need a slight adjustment, but it isn't like they have the ability to crank out 60K damage in like 90 seconds to essentially one shot an NM. BST who go this route are, after all, sacrificing more resources and efficiency for the durability factor that other jobs simply do not have to deal with and get by just fine with less -DT builds and less of a loss of resources along the way.

[Dallas]

It's not about the BST, it's about staring at a purple name for 60 minutes. If I can't have it, I will post about it!

[SNK]

You have to be honest, -100pdt is pretty stupid.

Considering the lack of invites I ever got as a BST except by other BSTs pre-abyessa I'm personally all for it. Truthfully tho it's pretty ballin you can reach that cap.

[Yinnyth]

Good grief.. what's with all the hating on BST? For the record, I have a 90 BST, but rarely use it, so didn't do a -DT build for it. Everyone is neglecting that BST has to pay to play each time. Can't charm in aby, have to use jug pets--and they can't use a refresh atma and spam cures on their pets: they have to use meds on their pets, and have to wait on an ability timer to do that. They also can't just recast/redeploy a free pet like other jobs.

And let's not forget the utility of -DT on petless jobs....

Granted, 100% is a bit overboard in the general scope of things and might need a slight adjustment, but it isn't like they have the ability to crank out 60K damage in like 90 seconds to essentially one shot an NM. BST who go this route are, after all, sacrificing more resources and efficiency for the durability factor that other jobs simply do not have to deal with and get by just fine with less -DT builds and less of a loss of resources along the way.

It's not about hating BST, it's about what's right and what's wrong. Can't charm in Aby? That's wrong, and SHOULD be fixed before they fix the PDT bug for pets. But the PDT is wrong too. There are many things about BST and other pet jobs which are way overdue for fixing. But when(if) the day comes where pet jobs are considered the equal of other jobs even without the -100% pdt, you should be prepared to sacrifice the pdt, because no player or pet should be completely immune to ANYTHING that ANY endgame monster can put out, and EVERY endgame monster puts out phys damage. Well, all but 2, but they're not in abyssea and don't really count anymore.

But again: the fix can wait for when SE finally makes pet jobs useful in other ways.

[Chronofantasy]

I disagree. I think players should be allowed even more PDT as well. I want to be able to solo everything without a healer. I want to be a tank, melee and a healer all rolled into one.

If SE doesn't make the game easier, I'm going to quit and make my friends quit along with me.

If you want to be all in one, then go play FFXIV. Apparently when I played that it seems like any class can get any ability on it.

[Xilk]

It's not even damage - once it reaches 100%, its damage annulment, which is broken. I'm just waiting for the rest of us to realize it, all level bst (which will take how long? a week tops?) and start using a few BSTs to invincible hold NMs while we proc. Sure they won't be immune to magic and you can't target them with cure spells but, hey, thats why you would get more than one. Evasion tanking would be a thing of the past.

They may as well remove exp loss while they're at it, as no one will ever die. Remove White Mages and all curing spells because they'll be useless too.


they already did remove xp loss...


So far I think the essence of the thread is that most people recognize physical damage immunity is broken, but we should hang on to it regardless, so BSTs and PUPs can continue to solo. Yet some of the same people say it's easy to solo even with a lower than 100% PDT reduction, just that it takes more effort. Well, I guess that's a difference of opinion then, because I think it should be a challenge. It's not just inconvenient, if more Atma have to be focused on keeping the pet alive, damage is lower and hate becomes more of an issue (not only because of lower damage, but because the pet also takes damage, thus loses enmity). Sounds to me like it would be harder, yet still nowhere near impossible.

False.

The essense of this thread is:
1. butthurt plyer
2. a handful of players who think its broken
3. a lot of players who know its not
4. a lot of noise and little fact.

I've fought so many Nm's this way, I know how limited it is. pick an NM? you think Hedj solo is easy? you need to get in and fight it w/ pet. the poison aura and hate reset and bind will kill you and your pet if you are not on top of things and know what you are doing. Sometimes it kills you even if you do know what you are doing.

You argue for ignorance trying to claim it is broken because you say so. The devil is the details. On a player 100% pdt would certainly be broken. On a pet, not really. It only really makes a big difference on a few things. Very high damage physical NM's such as the cactuars, the tiger in altepa, hedjedjet, and a few more perhaps.

BST is the tank of pet jobs. Does bst NEED 100% pdt? no, ofcourse not. Is it useful at time? absolutely!

If this was a game breaker, players would have been complaining for months. but nope. We have a few ignorant job haters (I can't for the life of me understand why there is hate about specific jobs) trying to get other players hit w/ the nerf bat.

If you really don't hate the job, then why are posting here?

If you really do believe it is broken, pick of list of NM's, check all their abilities run a few numbers (rough calculations are fine) try to get some idea of how a 100% -pdt bst pet could stand up to them. Try to figure how long it would take to kill. Try to figure how much the bst could proc for actual drops at the same time. Educate yourself.

Or stick your head in the sand, close your eyes and continue to be a parrot, because you just can't stand it that another player is doing what they are doing. (w/out any meaningful detriment to you)

... then again you'll have a hard time figuring out how much damage a bst does, or how much time it takes.. no one has honestly compared pet jobs when it come to damage output.

[Zyeriis]

Well theres good reason why BST can't charm in abyssea, and not surprisingly enough, it's nearly identical to why BST having 100% pdt- is broken. Apparently almost knows that if you sub BST on a job that is equal to or lower to your BST as a main, you can charm things just as effectively as you would be able to as BST main. BRD/BST can charm just about as well as BST/??? as can PLD/BST. Leading to potential exploitation in exp parties (see below) and everyone subbing BST. How is this similar to the -100% PDT? It could lead to people just throwing pets at NMs with charm on every job in the game. "But they could do that outside of abyssea too" That's not really true if you think about it. Where were sky gods? On secluded islands. Dynamis? Can't charm beastmen. Limbus? Can't charm the mobs in there (from what I recall). Einherjar? can't charm mobs in there. HNMs? Wouldn't go too well, they would wreck the mobs in those zones and get you killed. Sea? I don't remember if Lumorians are charmable, don't think/doubt they are. ZNMs are about the only thing you could actually throw charmed pets at effectively that I can recall (aside for SCNMs which were pretty much the same thing but in WotG).

On the other hand, It is also very likely that the reason you cannot charm in Abyssea is due to how exp is gained in a completely different manner than it is outside of abyssea. In that you create an exp chain by killing the same mob over and over. BST would be able to exploit this system even further with charm.

You could argue that they could just remove the exp off of a mob that was previously charmed like they do outside of abyssea but with the spaghetti coding and the compeltely different setup as to how exp is obtained, it would create errors and bugs within the system.

Disclaimer: The above post was, in majority, off-topic barring a few comparisons to the 100% pdt-exploitability.

[Zyeriis]

Eh, they only removed exp loss for 1-30 and nerfed it for 31-75, not really the same thing (though still stupid).

[Leonlionheart]

Can't you GM people for holding NM's?

Screw the BST, just GM him and have him jailed.

Also, if he's bothering you, pull a NM to him and die. If you're a DNC or something that can hold stuff, pull two or 3 NMs to him (like Iratham or something that doesn't go away easily) and MPK him. Problem solved. You're both in the wrong so it must make a right!

[Xilk]

Can't you GM people for holding NM's?

Screw the BST, just GM him and have him jailed.

Also, if he's bothering you, pull a NM to him and die. If you're a DNC or something that can hold stuff, pull two or 3 NMs to him (like Iratham or something that doesn't go away easily) and MPK him. Problem solved. You're both in the wrong so it must make a right!

Bravo! an intelligent, informed response! I can tell we have some honest detractors here... Lets harass another player for trying to play the game.


Eh, they only removed exp loss for 1-30 and nerfed it for 31-75, not really the same thing (though still stupid).

abyssite of lenity, atma of the apocalypse, twilight mail + helm and the exp/kill ratio increase. Sorry, there is no meaningful exp penalty for death.

Keep grasping at straws. You are deliberately IGNORING the real reasons and details that matter.

[Yinnyth]

The essense of this thread is:
1. butthurt plyer
2. a handful of players who think its broken
3. a lot of players who know its not
4. a lot of noise and little fact.

Self-righteous much? You're arguing seperate points and as such will never see eye to eye.

The argument for nerfing: There is no player or pet that should ever be 100% immune to physical damage at all times. I don't care if you have 30 bards, corsairs, red mages, and scholars cycling into a PLD's party to keep him fully buffed, that PLD should (and does) still take physical damage. But we're talking about a solo player that is capable of achieving that on their pet. A solo player achieving what hundreds of other players working in perfect harmony could not achieve in any other manner.

The argument against nerfing: Pet jobs (largely BST) have been the low end of the food chain in FFXI since day 1. No one shouts in Jeuno "Rani kill [Do you need it?] 12/18 BST needed!". In fact, no one has ever intentionally tried to seek out pet jobs because they were the best choice for the party slot. EVEN WITH 100% PDT in Abyssea, no one in their right mind wants a pet job to join, and therefore not only is a nerf unnecessary, it's inflaming an age-old problem.

What you fail to realize is that this is horrible thing for you to be fighting for. Pet jobs do not need invulnerable pets. They need their pets to be valuable in unique ways. They need improved damage output and versatility. They need better gear choices and more JAs. They need the ability to have their pets directly and indirectly buffed in a party setting. Pet jobs need dozens of things, but they do not need this. Someday, abyssea will no longer be the endgame, and pet jobs will still not be fixed. But hey, at least in abyssea your pet will still be immune to physical attacks, right?

Do not fight to keep this. Fight to trade it for what the jobs really need.